Unfortunately, when I read the quote from Lambert, this suggests a contradiction:
“Give us a difficulty slider, let us do hard modes.’ There’s things we’re looking at but it’s not a simple problem..."
This suggests that they are looking at a slider.
"...ten different people can play the game and they all play it ten different ways and it’s hard for some and easy for others. So we have to find the happy medium ground where the most amount of people can enjoy it.”
In a slider situation, "happy medium" would be whatever the player sets the slider for. Instead, this sounds like they are trying for a difficulty level that is somewhere in the middle, and that would apply to everyone. Basically, what they are doing today.
Maybe they are working on a slider that they can use, but would not necessarily be available to the player? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Actually after further thought yesterday, this is pretty much exactly what I decided they meant as well. I hate to say this so bluntly - but they are VERY good at "double non-speak".
Dear @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno,
...with the release of Gold Road and the apparent increase in overland difficulty of the West Weald zone, it seems clear that there are many players who find it too difficult, and those who find it still too easy. ...this implementation isn't working for the following reasons:
- Those who liked overland challenge as it was in other zones feel like the game is now failing to meet their needs
- The changes in West Weald are not consistent with other zones, creating an inconsistent overland experience
Stafford197 wrote: »This thread has almost 200,000 views yet nothing was done….
Vet Overland or Difficulty Slider?
Higher Difficulty-based rewards or not?
Whether or not you agree with the idea of more difficulty, it should be clear to every one of us that this was something many players did want in one form or another. Making everyone here happy and getting lots of advertisement would’ve been so easy. What a missed opportunity.
Is it ZOS not doing as the players ask, or the players not listening to what ZOS has said their chosen direction is?
Stafford197 wrote: »This thread has almost 200,000 views yet nothing was done….
Vet Overland or Difficulty Slider?
Higher Difficulty-based rewards or not?
Whether or not you agree with the idea of more difficulty, it should be clear to every one of us that this was something many players did want in one form or another. Making everyone here happy and getting lots of advertisement would’ve been so easy. What a missed opportunity.
Is it ZOS not doing as the players ask, or the players not listening to what ZOS has said their chosen direction is? They have said they have no plans to do it. Recently, they said they were looking into it ( <-- we already knew this, though ), but the "no plans" statement still stands, as far as anyone knows.
Edit: added note above.
Stafford197 wrote: »I see what you’re saying. However, in my opinion it is simply bad business practice to prioritize ego over the actual consumers.
Diablo 4 is a fantastic example. That game launched in the vision of the developers…. It had a huge launch day playerbase due to the hype, but quickly died out because the game sucked. It then took an enormous amount of hard work by those Devs to implement massive community feedback over time which in turn revived the game. Diablo 4 is doing very well now. Their vision completely changed and continues to change each season, all in response to player feedback.
Another example is Concord - a game with a $100M budget, large Dev team, almost a decade in development…. And it is dead at launch. They made a game in their own vision, to sell to a non-existent audience. In fact, they have insulted their potential players on numerous occasions. Do they have every right to make the game in heir vision? Yes. But it is a really bad decision. And if the game was called The Elder Scrolls: Concord and had an Elder Scrolls skin, there would be players… since this franchise is un-failable. I’m just sad that ESO has to rely on being un-failable instead of striving to be exceptional.
You’re definitely right about “be careful what you wish for”. Who knows what version of the many Vet Overland-related suggestions would actually go into the game.
Stafford197 wrote: »I see what you’re saying. However, in my opinion it is simply bad business practice to prioritize ego over the actual consumers.
Diablo 4 is a fantastic example. That game launched in the vision of the developers…. It had a huge launch day playerbase due to the hype, but quickly died out because the game sucked. It then took an enormous amount of hard work by those Devs to implement massive community feedback over time which in turn revived the game. Diablo 4 is doing very well now. Their vision completely changed and continues to change each season, all in response to player feedback.
Another example is Concord - a game with a $100M budget, large Dev team, almost a decade in development…. And it is dead at launch. They made a game in their own vision, to sell to a non-existent audience. In fact, they have insulted their potential players on numerous occasions. Do they have every right to make the game in heir vision? Yes. But it is a really bad decision. And if the game was called The Elder Scrolls: Concord and had an Elder Scrolls skin, there would be players… since this franchise is un-failable. I’m just sad that ESO has to rely on being un-failable instead of striving to be exceptional.
You’re definitely right about “be careful what you wish for”. Who knows what version of the many Vet Overland-related suggestions would actually go into the game.
Your last paragraph is, I fear, quite likely to actually happen. Right now, there are releases beginning with Galen which I personally have not played (the quest lines I mean) because due to limitations of my own, I simply cannot deal with the end quest story bosses. And in Necrom and Gold Road, I have to be so careful doing anything in overland because they appear to have ramped up the difficulty to where it's just so much more difficult for me that I just don't really go there - I've done a few antiquities and surveys, but having to watch overland as if it's a dungeon is just not for me.
We'll see what happens - but knowing how things have gone after players' requests have been "filled" by the devs but were nowhere close to what was requested, I'm feeling as if once they settle on a (probably across the board) ramping up of overland difficulty, I'll just go back to playing Skyrim and Oblivion - which yes, I very much enjoy and still love. But what I love about ESO is it's accessibility to play even with my limitations, and the fact that unlike the single player titles, it's not static - it changes with each release. [Sure, Skyrim and Oblivion have player made mod content outside the graphics and um.... well, can't talk about those mods here.... but there's only so much of it, and once you've done it you don't necessarily repeat it.]
Stafford197 wrote: »Stafford197 wrote: »I see what you’re saying. However, in my opinion it is simply bad business practice to prioritize ego over the actual consumers.
Diablo 4 is a fantastic example. That game launched in the vision of the developers…. It had a huge launch day playerbase due to the hype, but quickly died out because the game sucked. It then took an enormous amount of hard work by those Devs to implement massive community feedback over time which in turn revived the game. Diablo 4 is doing very well now. Their vision completely changed and continues to change each season, all in response to player feedback.
Another example is Concord - a game with a $100M budget, large Dev team, almost a decade in development…. And it is dead at launch. They made a game in their own vision, to sell to a non-existent audience. In fact, they have insulted their potential players on numerous occasions. Do they have every right to make the game in heir vision? Yes. But it is a really bad decision. And if the game was called The Elder Scrolls: Concord and had an Elder Scrolls skin, there would be players… since this franchise is un-failable. I’m just sad that ESO has to rely on being un-failable instead of striving to be exceptional.
You’re definitely right about “be careful what you wish for”. Who knows what version of the many Vet Overland-related suggestions would actually go into the game.
Your last paragraph is, I fear, quite likely to actually happen. Right now, there are releases beginning with Galen which I personally have not played (the quest lines I mean) because due to limitations of my own, I simply cannot deal with the end quest story bosses. And in Necrom and Gold Road, I have to be so careful doing anything in overland because they appear to have ramped up the difficulty to where it's just so much more difficult for me that I just don't really go there - I've done a few antiquities and surveys, but having to watch overland as if it's a dungeon is just not for me.
We'll see what happens - but knowing how things have gone after players' requests have been "filled" by the devs but were nowhere close to what was requested, I'm feeling as if once they settle on a (probably across the board) ramping up of overland difficulty, I'll just go back to playing Skyrim and Oblivion - which yes, I very much enjoy and still love. But what I love about ESO is it's accessibility to play even with my limitations, and the fact that unlike the single player titles, it's not static - it changes with each release. [Sure, Skyrim and Oblivion have player made mod content outside the graphics and um.... well, can't talk about those mods here.... but there's only so much of it, and once you've done it you don't necessarily repeat it.]
Outright increasing Overland difficulty is something I really hope never happens. My opinion on this whole situation is that it’s too late to change anything fundamental in this game.
With that said, the only solution I think has the potential to satisfy everyone is a Difficulty Slider. Not anything fancy but rather as simple as:
Novice
Same difficulty as current ESO. Potentially reduce the Health of certain non-boss enemies who have over 90K Health, to have a maximum of 90K Health.
Apprentice
Increases Damage Taken by 15%
Reduces Damage Done and Healing Taken by 15%
Journeyman
Increases Damage Taken by 30%
Reduces Damage Done and Healing Taken by 30%
Expert
Increases Damage Taken by 50%
Reduces Damage Done and Healing Taken by 50%
Master
Increases Damage Taken by 75%
Reduces Damage Done and Healing Taken by 75%
So then you would have all players still in the same Overland world, fighting the same enemies, but some players are heavily debuffed If there’s any additional reward it would be small Experience bonuses of maybe 10% per difficulty level.
*And none of these bonuses would function in any content which are currently affected by the current Normal/Veteran slider. That leaves it strictly to Overland content, so you can play the game exactly as it currently is or purposely debuff your character without having to remove all gear/ignore itemization just to have difficulty.
Imo that’s the best solution rn and would be very easy to do, as it is simply a single buff that applies to the character. No game reworks of any sort.
Stafford197 wrote: »I see what you’re saying. However, in my opinion it is simply bad business practice to prioritize ego over the actual consumers.
spartaxoxo wrote: »The last chapter did not well. It made players lose interest very quickly. It's because they upped the difficulty by force on side content. They tried to please vet players by giving us the exact opposite of what we asked for, and what we spent a long time requesting them not to do. And to no one's surprise, this approach did not make people like me want to play Gold Road. What it did do was turn away all those casual players that come and go with chapter releases faster than ever before.
Stafford197 wrote: »Stafford197 wrote: »I see what you’re saying. However, in my opinion it is simply bad business practice to prioritize ego over the actual consumers.
Diablo 4 is a fantastic example. That game launched in the vision of the developers…. It had a huge launch day playerbase due to the hype, but quickly died out because the game sucked. It then took an enormous amount of hard work by those Devs to implement massive community feedback over time which in turn revived the game. Diablo 4 is doing very well now. Their vision completely changed and continues to change each season, all in response to player feedback.
Another example is Concord - a game with a $100M budget, large Dev team, almost a decade in development…. And it is dead at launch. They made a game in their own vision, to sell to a non-existent audience. In fact, they have insulted their potential players on numerous occasions. Do they have every right to make the game in heir vision? Yes. But it is a really bad decision. And if the game was called The Elder Scrolls: Concord and had an Elder Scrolls skin, there would be players… since this franchise is un-failable. I’m just sad that ESO has to rely on being un-failable instead of striving to be exceptional.
You’re definitely right about “be careful what you wish for”. Who knows what version of the many Vet Overland-related suggestions would actually go into the game.
Your last paragraph is, I fear, quite likely to actually happen. Right now, there are releases beginning with Galen which I personally have not played (the quest lines I mean) because due to limitations of my own, I simply cannot deal with the end quest story bosses. And in Necrom and Gold Road, I have to be so careful doing anything in overland because they appear to have ramped up the difficulty to where it's just so much more difficult for me that I just don't really go there - I've done a few antiquities and surveys, but having to watch overland as if it's a dungeon is just not for me.
We'll see what happens - but knowing how things have gone after players' requests have been "filled" by the devs but were nowhere close to what was requested, I'm feeling as if once they settle on a (probably across the board) ramping up of overland difficulty, I'll just go back to playing Skyrim and Oblivion - which yes, I very much enjoy and still love. But what I love about ESO is it's accessibility to play even with my limitations, and the fact that unlike the single player titles, it's not static - it changes with each release. [Sure, Skyrim and Oblivion have player made mod content outside the graphics and um.... well, can't talk about those mods here.... but there's only so much of it, and once you've done it you don't necessarily repeat it.]
Outright increasing Overland difficulty is something I really hope never happens. My opinion on this whole situation is that it’s too late to change anything fundamental in this game.
With that said, the only solution I think has the potential to satisfy everyone is a Difficulty Slider. Not anything fancy but rather as simple as:
Novice
Same difficulty as current ESO. Potentially reduce the Health of certain non-boss enemies who have over 90K Health, to have a maximum of 90K Health.
Apprentice
Increases Damage Taken by 15%
Reduces Damage Done and Healing Taken by 15%
Journeyman
Increases Damage Taken by 30%
Reduces Damage Done and Healing Taken by 30%
Expert
Increases Damage Taken by 50%
Reduces Damage Done and Healing Taken by 50%
Master
Increases Damage Taken by 75%
Reduces Damage Done and Healing Taken by 75%
So then you would have all players still in the same Overland world, fighting the same enemies, but some players are heavily debuffed If there’s any additional reward it would be small Experience bonuses of maybe 10% per difficulty level.
*And none of these bonuses would function in any content which are currently affected by the current Normal/Veteran slider. That leaves it strictly to Overland content, so you can play the game exactly as it currently is or purposely debuff your character without having to remove all gear/ignore itemization just to have difficulty.
Imo that’s the best solution rn and would be very easy to do, as it is simply a single buff that applies to the character. No game reworks of any sort.
This is what I've been hoping could be done. And I'm not fussed (unlike others) if the rewards are greater! Lordy, they could be millions of gold and I'd STILL never move the slider! Besides, I already HAVE millions of gold....
This seems to me to be the most fair solution, bottom line. I hope it can happen. And btw.... I can't see any reason they couldn't repurpose Battle Spirit to accomplish this for PvE - though of course I'm not a programmer.
I would be happy with a slider that simply increases damage to players and lowers damage from players.
I would be happy with a slider that simply increases damage to players and lowers damage from players.
Even though I doubt we will get anything, I would like the slider to handle both conditions. Make overland way harder at one end and way easier at the other. The latter is the "less annoying overland" mode, which I would set my game to in the first 5 minutes after the servers came back up.
Stafford197 wrote: »This thread has almost 200,000 views yet nothing was done….
Vet Overland or Difficulty Slider?
Higher Difficulty-based rewards or not?
Whether or not you agree with the idea of more difficulty, it should be clear to every one of us that this was something many players did want in one form or another. Making everyone here happy and getting lots of advertisement would’ve been so easy. What a missed opportunity.
SilverBride wrote: »Keep in mind that suggestions are not always implemented the way the players expect.
Stafford197 wrote: »This thread has almost 200,000 views yet nothing was done….
Vet Overland or Difficulty Slider?
Higher Difficulty-based rewards or not?
Whether or not you agree with the idea of more difficulty, it should be clear to every one of us that this was something many players did want in one form or another. Making everyone here happy and getting lots of advertisement would’ve been so easy. What a missed opportunity.SilverBride wrote: »Keep in mind that suggestions are not always implemented the way the players expect.
I would like to highlight these two statements back-to-back. Speaking only for myself, I view this thread not because I want something to be done, but because I am extremely worried something will be done in a less than ideal way. Views don't always mean the people viewing want a change. That's not a good assumption and frankly, "nothing" being done is the outcome I personally hope for. As someone who lost a lot of what made ESO fun with the implementation of AwA, I'm very concerned ZOS will attempt to compromise with a one-size-fits-all adjustment for the overland difficulty problem and further remove a good portion of ESO's charm and fun.
I will say I haven't yet explored Gold Road so I can't comment on any game change directions there. But I can say as a veteran player who enjoys hard modes in dungeons and raids, I personally would not want overland to get harder as that is where I go to relax. All this would do is increase the time I'd need for my overland activities (like farming leads) because tougher enemies means longer kill times. Time I don't really have. So I may be a bit of a unique viewpoint here, where I have the skills and the gear for a harder overland, but I still don't really want it to change (whereas in general this debate seems to hinge on the fact that many people fear a difficulty increase because then it will be too hard for them).
I have advocated in the past for a slight increase, such that overland evolves with power creep at least, but even that I'm not really in favor of anymore, because the game is so broad and so vast I would argue that overland's initial difficulty and the time it took to go through content made sense, because there was limited content, but now new players or folks leveling new characters kind of need the easy difficulty that exists today to even have a chance of working their way through the content in any kind of reasonable time frame.
There is a saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." While I understand that for some of you, you feel overland is "broken," I am afraid changes will come at a cost to those who are enjoying what we have now. And it's extremely unlikely, given the complexity of the situation, that changes will make everyone happy or even most people happy.
I would be happy with a slider that simply increases damage to players and lowers damage from players.
Even though I doubt we will get anything, I would like the slider to handle both conditions. Make overland way harder at one end and way easier at the other. The latter is the "less annoying overland" mode, which I would set my game to in the first 5 minutes after the servers came back up.
I have advocated in the past for a slight increase, such that overland evolves with power creep at least, but even that I'm not really in favor of anymore, because the game is so broad and so vast I would argue that overland's initial difficulty and the time it took to go through content made sense, because there was limited content, but now new players or folks leveling new characters kind of need the easy difficulty that exists today to even have a chance of working their way through the content in any kind of reasonable time frame.
I would like to highlight these two statements back-to-back. Speaking only for myself, I view this thread not because I want something to be done, but because I am extremely worried something will be done in a less than ideal way. Views don't always mean the people viewing want a change. That's not a good assumption and frankly, "nothing" being done is the outcome I personally hope for. As someone who lost a lot of what made ESO fun with the implementation of AwA, I'm very concerned ZOS will attempt to compromise with a one-size-fits-all adjustment for the overland difficulty problem and further remove a good portion of ESO's charm and fun.
Stafford197 wrote: »This thread has almost 200,000 views yet nothing was done….
Vet Overland or Difficulty Slider?
Higher Difficulty-based rewards or not?
Whether or not you agree with the idea of more difficulty, it should be clear to every one of us that this was something many players did want in one form or another. Making everyone here happy and getting lots of advertisement would’ve been so easy. What a missed opportunity.SilverBride wrote: »Keep in mind that suggestions are not always implemented the way the players expect.
I would like to highlight these two statements back-to-back. Speaking only for myself, I view this thread not because I want something to be done, but because I am extremely worried something will be done in a less than ideal way. Views don't always mean the people viewing want a change. That's not a good assumption and frankly, "nothing" being done is the outcome I personally hope for. As someone who lost a lot of what made ESO fun with the implementation of AwA, I'm very concerned ZOS will attempt to compromise with a one-size-fits-all adjustment for the overland difficulty problem and further remove a good portion of ESO's charm and fun.