Out of boredom I 'undressed' my stamblade questing through Vvardenfell. With just her attribtute points, a mundus stone, a bow and a two-handed sword (green, no enchants) I found the Public Dungeon bosses to be roughly at the right difficulty.
With no cp, armor, jewelry, food or potions, I found the most interesting bit added to combat was the lack of stamina regen. It really adds to the combat when you have to be careful how and when you expend those limited resources. Much more important for the dynamic than hitpoints and damage alone.
That's still not an acceptable solution, though. Builds are one of the things that people who enjoy combat also find to be integral to the experience, and forcing a player to remove all of the progress they've made just to have a good time goes against the spirit of the game. We should have the option to feel challenged while fighting with at full strength.
It was more of an experiment to see if by tweaking stats the current fly-swatting encounters can be turned into fun ones at all. I didn't want to just assume that. There could be other factors at play to make overland encounters boring. Quite a few still are, but otoh mob and boss special abilities that could be safely ignored actually start to matter. So there's an actual game there, if you get my drift.
That's also understandable and valid. I wasn't trying to exclude your point of view, I was just addressing SilverBride's position.@disky - it's my understanding of some players' positions that they like overland the way it is because they are "gods" and can flyswat their way across the zones. I don't see that a slider "deconstructs" that, but it may be that there's a disconnect in definitions?
In my case, I don't do the whole "godlike" thing - because I have too much in the way (various issues) to ever be "godlike". I just like overland to not get in my way when I need to go do something. Up until Galen, overland was perfect for my needs - since Galen, not so much.
I'm glad you're so accepting of change, but I think that ZOS could put forth a little more effort to even out difficulty across overland and then provide a way to increase the challenge for those who want it. That would be, in my opinion, the most proper way to handle things, and once the initial work is done it should be much easier to manage going forward.There really is plenty to do, so it's not actually an issue. It won't even be an issue (for me) if new content gets harder and harder - it will only become an issue if they go back and redo older content to make it harder. At that point, it will be (for me) back to Skyrim and Oblivion. I would miss ESO, but I'm not going to beat my head (and my "inabilities") on stuff that's guaranteed to cause me issues....
We are on the same page. I just said it that way because I'm speaking from the perspective of a player who believes the overland game is too easy.
SilverBride wrote: »We are on the same page. I just said it that way because I'm speaking from the perspective of a player who believes the overland game is too easy.
It is one thing to say "I believe overland is too easy" because this identifies the statement as the player's own personal opinion. It's something completely different to say "Overland is too easy" because that makes a claim that their opinion is a fact when the real fact is that overland needs to be easy enough for all players to succeed at.
Is it easy? In many ways, yes. Is it too easy? Not if the goal is for overland to be doable by all players.
As far as being functional, overland is not broken if it still maintains its functionality. Players are able to do quests, and fight trash mobs, and run delves and dolmens (and Geysers etc.) and all the other overland content. Players may enjoy this as it is, or may think it's too easy or too difficult but it's still functioning as intended, therefore is not broken.
The debate in this thread is one of player preference, not a broken system (which it isn't).
That's also understandable and valid. I wasn't trying to exclude your point of view, I was just addressing SilverBride's position.@disky - it's my understanding of some players' positions that they like overland the way it is because they are "gods" and can flyswat their way across the zones. I don't see that a slider "deconstructs" that, but it may be that there's a disconnect in definitions?
In my case, I don't do the whole "godlike" thing - because I have too much in the way (various issues) to ever be "godlike". I just like overland to not get in my way when I need to go do something. Up until Galen, overland was perfect for my needs - since Galen, not so much.I'm glad you're so accepting of change, but I think that ZOS could put forth a little more effort to even out difficulty across overland and then provide a way to increase the challenge for those who want it. That would be, in my opinion, the most proper way to handle things, and once the initial work is done it should be much easier to manage going forward.There really is plenty to do, so it's not actually an issue. It won't even be an issue (for me) if new content gets harder and harder - it will only become an issue if they go back and redo older content to make it harder. At that point, it will be (for me) back to Skyrim and Oblivion. I would miss ESO, but I'm not going to beat my head (and my "inabilities") on stuff that's guaranteed to cause me issues....
SilverBride wrote: »That states that many actions are not affected by global cooldowns so the player can remain active in combat. It also talks about character builds and execution, and it mentions group builds specifically. I don't see anything specific to overland or its difficulty mentioned.
SilverBride wrote: »It is one thing to say "I believe overland is too easy" because this identifies the statement as the player's own personal opinion. It's something completely different to say "Overland is too easy" because that makes a claim that their opinion is a fact when the real fact is that overland needs to be easy enough for all players to succeed at.
"Overland is too easy" because that makes a claim that their opinion is a fact when the real fact is that overland needs to be easy enough for all players to succeed at.
As far as being functional, overland is not broken if it still maintains its functionality. Players are able to do quests, and fight trash mobs, and run delves and dolmens (and Geysers etc.) and all the other overland content. Players may enjoy this as it is, or may think it's too easy or too difficult but it's still functioning as intended, therefore is not broken.
The debate in this thread is one of player preference, not a broken system (which it isn't).
SilverBride wrote: »That states that many actions are not affected by global cooldowns so the player can remain active in combat. It also talks about character builds and execution, and it mentions group builds specifically. I don't see anything specific to overland or its difficulty mentioned.
spartaxoxo wrote: »"Overland is too easy" because that makes a claim that their opinion is a fact when the real fact is that overland needs to be easy enough for all players to succeed at.
This is also an opinion.
Theist_VII wrote: ».Clearly there is a contradiction of ideals here, between vision and implementation.
We’re all gamers of course, so games of all types have a huge influence on us. They aren’t the only source of inspiration though – books, movies, sports…etc are all great sources as well. For me personally, I love diving into anything with RPG elements – building characters' power, collecting new gear, and strong storytelling.
SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »"Overland is too easy" because that makes a claim that their opinion is a fact when the real fact is that overland needs to be easy enough for all players to succeed at.
This is also an opinion.
This is a fact.
"...open-world content is balanced for casual play; ZOS is not going to make the open-world game or story content too hard because they don’t want people to quit."
“We do hear that feedback all the time,” Lambert says. “‘Give us a difficulty slider, let us do hard modes.’ There’s things we’re looking at but it’s not a simple problem because ten different people can play the game and they all play it ten different ways and it’s hard for some and easy for others. So we have to find the happy medium ground where the most amount of people can enjoy it.”
SilverBride wrote: »I have tried to be supportive of difficulty debuffs or sliders or challenge banners even though I have never seen a need for any of these things. But I supported them in a good faith effort for those players that would find them beneficial to their enjoyment of the game.
My viewpoint is as valid as everyone else's and I stand behind it.
Theist_VII wrote: »
spartaxoxo wrote: »I actually think the combat and gameplay team knocks it out of the park. It's specifically overland that has the issue. But, the group play content is mostly excellent. Well, at least from a PvE perspective. I don't play PvP enough to have a firm opinion on how well the basic combat works when it's functional (apart from balance).
They've managed to make a combat system that accommodates a wide range of skill and play styles. It's shame they won't let us all use it in overland.
spartaxoxo wrote: »When we speak our truth, it is not meant to invalidate you or the many others that find overland fun. You all are valid and that's why so many of us have, in good faith, argued against forced difficulty even though it would benefit us. I still believe that forcing difficulty on you all is the wrong way to go about things. But, my experience remains valid too. For me, overland is too easy and does not provide the RPG or Elder Scrolls experience. It just doesn't.
spartaxoxo wrote: »I actually think the combat and gameplay team knocks it out of the park. It's specifically overland that has the issue. But, the group play content is mostly excellent. Well, at least from a PvE perspective. I don't play PvP enough to have a firm opinion on how well the basic combat works when it's functional (apart from balance).
They've managed to make a combat system that accommodates a wide range of skill and play styles. It's shame they won't let us all use it in overland.
Exactly!spartaxoxo wrote: »When we speak our truth, it is not meant to invalidate you or the many others that find overland fun. You all are valid and that's why so many of us have, in good faith, argued against forced difficulty even though it would benefit us. I still believe that forcing difficulty on you all is the wrong way to go about things. But, my experience remains valid too. For me, overland is too easy and does not provide the RPG or Elder Scrolls experience. It just doesn't.
I feel the same, though I would like to point out that not everything about how overland is 'just a matter of opinion'. There are 'objective' observations that can be made about the game design.
Overland has encounters with enemies whose AOE's you can step out of, whose attacks can be blocked or interrupted and whose attacks can be preempted or avoided by sneaking or going invisible. The design of the game can be seriously questioned when you are better off ignoring all of that. Just like you would question de design of a foot race with hurdles scaled down to half an inch in height.
This is the one I often refer to:As a follow-up to my last comment, I'd just like to share this one example:
[snip]