spartaxoxo wrote: »I think the story bosses are easy for most players, tbh.
spartaxoxo wrote: »World bosses and group event public dungeon bosses are being completed by groups all the time. I've heard of very few people unable to complete the story bosses.
Edit: Almost all the complaints about Ithelia are story spoilers stuff (didn't read them though I'm sure I can guess) and not difficulty.
SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »I think the story bosses are easy for most players, tbh.
I disagree. I've seen a lot of feedback about how hard it's become for many players, both on the forums and in game, and how some are no longer able to complete the stories.
I personally can still complete them, but it's harder on some of my characters than others. And it's certainly a lot less enjoyable for me. I don't even care to do the World Bosses any more, and only do the Public Dungeon group event once per character now because of it, when I used to enjoy doing them several times per character.
It was a real strain finding anyone to help with the group event Boss in Silorn because no one wants to help with it. It's usually easy to get others to come help, but not any more. I waited an hour on one character before I finally got help. And no, I am not able to solo that Boss even on my best character.
This is an issue that needs to be addressed.
spartaxoxo wrote: »Sadly, I think that the video posted above is better evidence that Arcanist will be nerfed than overland quest bosses are too easy.
Just as easy on my sorc
https://youtu.be/lUvzkAXUyD0
And on my sneak thief night blade, which is in gear meant for lowering the detection radius. It's not even a combat character. Yeah, she got to use a few more skills. But at no point did I have to care about adds or worry about my health, and the boss didn't even make it to a second immunity phase from living so long. This boss was easily dispatched by all of my characters, even the weakest one not built for combat.
https://youtu.be/6nOEinB2dbs
Yesterday evening, I completed the Necrom+Gold Road storyline with my personal Questing/Companion Leveling build and the final 2 boss fights took quite a while to defeat:
The build in detail:
This is something I use if I want a proper challenge in the Zone Stories.
Theist_VII wrote: »World Bosses and Public Dungeon Group bosses should not be solo-able by your average player.
They are designed with group play in mind. I keep seeing Silorn pop up, I’m assuming the Group boss is what people find difficult? It literally has Group in the name of the description…
spartaxoxo wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »World Bosses and Public Dungeon Group bosses should not be solo-able by your average player.
They are designed with group play in mind. I keep seeing Silorn pop up, I’m assuming the Group boss is what people find difficult? It literally has Group in the name of the description…
Public Dungeon group bosses have generally always been fairly easy solos. Silorn is the first one I ever found challenging. I haven't gotten a chance to fight him solo but the last time I fought him I had aggro most of the time and I did end up dying right before the boss did. If I was by myself, that would not have been a clear. I'm kind of looking forward to getting to fight him alone and seeing if I can beat him. But, I always end up with other players joining the fray every time I've tried.
Theist_VII wrote: »World Bosses and Public Dungeon Group bosses should not be solo-able by your average player.
They are designed with group play in mind. I keep seeing Silorn pop up, I’m assuming the Group boss is what people find difficult? It literally has Group in the name of the description…
SilverBride wrote: »The fact that the bosses are easy for some players doesn't mean that this is how most players find them. These bosses are so hard for many that they can't defeat them and complete the stories. Especially the ones from High Isle and beyond.
Knowing that some players still don't find them difficult enough, will these bosses now become so difficult that only the top players will ever be able to succeed in overland?
SilverBride wrote: »The fact that the bosses are easy for some players doesn't mean that this is how most players find them. These bosses are so hard for many that they can't defeat them and complete the stories. Especially the ones from High Isle and beyond.
Knowing that some players still don't find them difficult enough, will these bosses now become so difficult that only the top players will ever be able to succeed in overland?
I don't think it's the case that most players find them challenging, but more likely that players either enjoy or don't mind easy content. No doubt there are some people who find them legitimately difficult but I'm betting they're a much smaller percentage of the playerbase.
Theist_VII wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »World Bosses and Public Dungeon Group bosses should not be solo-able by your average player.
They are designed with group play in mind. I keep seeing Silorn pop up, I’m assuming the Group boss is what people find difficult? It literally has Group in the name of the description…
Public Dungeon group bosses have generally always been fairly easy solos. Silorn is the first one I ever found challenging. I haven't gotten a chance to fight him solo but the last time I fought him I had aggro most of the time and I did end up dying right before the boss did. If I was by myself, that would not have been a clear. I'm kind of looking forward to getting to fight him alone and seeing if I can beat him. But, I always end up with other players joining the fray every time I've tried.
Right, and that’s a problem in and of itself.
Group bosses should not be so easy that players can casually solo them, it’s setting the wrong precedent for their namesake.
spartaxoxo wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »World Bosses and Public Dungeon Group bosses should not be solo-able by your average player.
They are designed with group play in mind. I keep seeing Silorn pop up, I’m assuming the Group boss is what people find difficult? It literally has Group in the name of the description…
Public Dungeon group bosses have generally always been fairly easy solos. Silorn is the first one I ever found challenging. I haven't gotten a chance to fight him solo but the last time I fought him I had aggro most of the time and I did end up dying right before the boss did. If I was by myself, that would not have been a clear. I'm kind of looking forward to getting to fight him alone and seeing if I can beat him. But, I always end up with other players joining the fray every time I've tried.
Right, and that’s a problem in and of itself.
Group bosses should not be so easy that players can casually solo them, it’s setting the wrong precedent for their namesake.
I think the precedent they've set for the last several years is more important than the namesake. I can see why people are annoyed that they changed.
SilverBride wrote: »While I read in here that people might not like different rewards for different difficulties, I never got the impression that ZOS was hung up on that. The only comment I remember them making had to do with the fact that players would not play harder for the same reward. I never got the impression that was off the table, but I did get the impression it was more complicated than it sounds. I might be remembering wrong, and we can't go back and review the comment.
I believe this is what you are referring to. The rest of the transcript is under a spoiler tag (because it's long) in post #33 on Page 2 of this thread.
"Would it be an option just to give people the choice? It is not as simple as just flip a switch and make things more difficult. There is a TON of work and then as Lucky mentioned earlier you have to also incentivize that. Like just making something more difficult for no reason, if you’re not going to get anything out of it why do it? The satisfaction's there sure but players are always going to do the thing that is the most efficient and is the least difficult thing for their time."
Theist_VII wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »World Bosses and Public Dungeon Group bosses should not be solo-able by your average player.
They are designed with group play in mind. I keep seeing Silorn pop up, I’m assuming the Group boss is what people find difficult? It literally has Group in the name of the description…
Public Dungeon group bosses have generally always been fairly easy solos. Silorn is the first one I ever found challenging. I haven't gotten a chance to fight him solo but the last time I fought him I had aggro most of the time and I did end up dying right before the boss did. If I was by myself, that would not have been a clear. I'm kind of looking forward to getting to fight him alone and seeing if I can beat him. But, I always end up with other players joining the fray every time I've tried.
Right, and that’s a problem in and of itself.
Group bosses should not be so easy that players can casually solo them, it’s setting the wrong precedent for their namesake.
I think the precedent they've set for the last several years is more important than the namesake. I can see why people are annoyed that they changed.
On the contrary, either they should change the name of them and nerf the latest, or they should go back and make all of the old ones an actual thought provoking experience.
There are so many unexplored interactions with ESO, like needing to use the existing damage resistance glyphs, that could make traveling the world more engaging, where right now you don’t have to build into encounters.
What we have is such a lazy design.
spartaxoxo wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »World Bosses and Public Dungeon Group bosses should not be solo-able by your average player.
They are designed with group play in mind. I keep seeing Silorn pop up, I’m assuming the Group boss is what people find difficult? It literally has Group in the name of the description…
Public Dungeon group bosses have generally always been fairly easy solos. Silorn is the first one I ever found challenging. I haven't gotten a chance to fight him solo but the last time I fought him I had aggro most of the time and I did end up dying right before the boss did. If I was by myself, that would not have been a clear. I'm kind of looking forward to getting to fight him alone and seeing if I can beat him. But, I always end up with other players joining the fray every time I've tried.
Right, and that’s a problem in and of itself.
Group bosses should not be so easy that players can casually solo them, it’s setting the wrong precedent for their namesake.
I think the precedent they've set for the last several years is more important than the namesake. I can see why people are annoyed that they changed.
On the contrary, either they should change the name of them and nerf the latest, or they should go back and make all of the old ones an actual thought provoking experience.
There are so many unexplored interactions with ESO, like needing to use the existing damage resistance glyphs, that could make traveling the world more engaging, where right now you don’t have to build into encounters.
What we have is such a lazy design.
I don't think any other forced changes are necessary. Idc if they change the name.
Theist_VII wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Theist_VII wrote: »World Bosses and Public Dungeon Group bosses should not be solo-able by your average player.
They are designed with group play in mind. I keep seeing Silorn pop up, I’m assuming the Group boss is what people find difficult? It literally has Group in the name of the description…
Public Dungeon group bosses have generally always been fairly easy solos. Silorn is the first one I ever found challenging. I haven't gotten a chance to fight him solo but the last time I fought him I had aggro most of the time and I did end up dying right before the boss did. If I was by myself, that would not have been a clear. I'm kind of looking forward to getting to fight him alone and seeing if I can beat him. But, I always end up with other players joining the fray every time I've tried.
Right, and that’s a problem in and of itself.
Group bosses should not be so easy that players can casually solo them, it’s setting the wrong precedent for their namesake.
I think the precedent they've set for the last several years is more important than the namesake. I can see why people are annoyed that they changed.
On the contrary, either they should change the name of them and nerf the latest, or they should go back and make all of the old ones an actual thought provoking experience.
There are so many unexplored interactions with ESO, like needing to use the existing damage resistance glyphs, that could make traveling the world more engaging, where right now you don’t have to build into encounters.
What we have is such a lazy design.
I don't think any other forced changes are necessary. Idc if they change the name.
And therein lies the problem.
It’s all fun and games, let’s make a harder overland so that our meta builds can just slam right through it for the additional benefits… but wait… we don’t want to actually have to think when playing the game, so don’t raise the difficulty too much.
Like be honest, do you want an engaging game or not? You say, no “forced changes” but the idea is that we wouldn’t be forced into the harder difficulty, so what exactly is the problem with wanting to actually have to build into the content we’re playing? Because it’s inconvenient?
Personally I wasn't able to solo him on the character I was on. But looking at that video, that is not how content should work. All you did was kite around for minutes, and mostly heavy attack. That is not engaging or difficult gameplay, that is just tedious and a waste of time.spartaxoxo wrote: »As I said earlier, I was excited to solo Silorn because it's the first public dungeon boss that actually seemed like a challenge. Here's what that fight looked like. I actually had to slot a shield. Fun.
https://youtu.be/JTmF4YcK7Ps
Edit: This fight will be easiest on my sorc as it's quite resources intensive and she has the best shield. I plan on trying to solo it on all my other characters as well but I wanted to get the principles of the fight down with the sorc first.
Personally I wasn't able to solo him on the character I was on. But looking at that video, that is not how content should work. All you did was kite around for minutes, and mostly heavy attack. That is not engaging or difficult gameplay, that is just tedious and a waste of time.spartaxoxo wrote: »As I said earlier, I was excited to solo Silorn because it's the first public dungeon boss that actually seemed like a challenge. Here's what that fight looked like. I actually had to slot a shield. Fun.
https://youtu.be/JTmF4YcK7Ps
Edit: This fight will be easiest on my sorc as it's quite resources intensive and she has the best shield. I plan on trying to solo it on all my other characters as well but I wanted to get the principles of the fight down with the sorc first.
We have armor, resistances, block, dodge, etc, for a reason, which is to actually engage in the gameplay. Kiting is not gameplay, it is actually avoiding the gameplay entirely. To me this is one of the worst things to encounter in a game.
Personally I wasn't able to solo him on the character I was on. But looking at that video, that is not how content should work. All you did was kite around for minutes, and mostly heavy attack. That is not engaging or difficult gameplay, that is just tedious and a waste of time.spartaxoxo wrote: »As I said earlier, I was excited to solo Silorn because it's the first public dungeon boss that actually seemed like a challenge. Here's what that fight looked like. I actually had to slot a shield. Fun.
https://youtu.be/JTmF4YcK7Ps
Edit: This fight will be easiest on my sorc as it's quite resources intensive and she has the best shield. I plan on trying to solo it on all my other characters as well but I wanted to get the principles of the fight down with the sorc first.
We have armor, resistances, block, dodge, etc, for a reason, which is to actually engage in the gameplay. Kiting is not gameplay, it is actually avoiding the gameplay entirely. To me this is one of the worst things to encounter in a game.
Theist_VII wrote: »what exactly is the problem with wanting to actually have to build into the content we’re playing? Because it’s inconvenient?
Speaking for myself, the fights I enjoy most are the ones where I need to know my enemies, prioritize targets and remain highly mobile. I really dislike it when difficulty comes from the environment though. I don't like it when fights turn into obstacle courses. That is where I would say: if that's what you want, go do dungeons. Don't bring that into overland.
spartaxoxo wrote: »I have advocated for them for three years and have posted multiple videos showing why they're necessary.
SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »I have advocated for them for three years and have posted multiple videos showing why they're necessary.
These videos do not show that anything is necessary. All they show is one player being able to defeat difficult enemies. That is far from everyone's experience. But even if it was there are still a lot of players that enjoy being strong and able to easily defeat enemies, even Bosses.
Increased difficulty is a personal preference, not a necessity.
spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »I have advocated for them for three years and have posted multiple videos showing why they're necessary.
These videos do not show that anything is necessary. All they show is one player being able to defeat difficult enemies. That is far from everyone's experience. But even if it was there are still a lot of players that enjoy being strong and able to easily defeat enemies, even Bosses.
Increased difficulty is a personal preference, not a necessity.
The reason for most players driven changes in the game is that a lot of people are complaining about whatever is getting changed. This is why the nerfed herald seekers, for example. A lot of people were complaining about how the increased difficulty of overland was making their experience unpleasant, and ZOS nerfed it. If that is the reason why decreased difficulty is necessary, then it certainly should be a reason why increased difficulty options are necessary too.
spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »I have advocated for them for three years and have posted multiple videos showing why they're necessary.
These videos do not show that anything is necessary. All they show is one player being able to defeat difficult enemies. That is far from everyone's experience. But even if it was there are still a lot of players that enjoy being strong and able to easily defeat enemies, even Bosses.
Increased difficulty is a personal preference, not a necessity.
The reason for most players driven changes in the game is that a lot of people are complaining about whatever is getting changed. This is why the nerfed herald seekers, for example. A lot of people were complaining about how the increased difficulty of overland was making their experience unpleasant, and ZOS nerfed it. If that is the reason why decreased difficulty is necessary, then it certainly should be a reason why increased difficulty options are necessary too.
Well, my objection to the damned herald seekers wasn't difficulty, as I didn't "choose" to engage them: they kept getting pulled onto me by others fighting them near my dig sites! Ultimately, I learned where they were, and if a site popped up in one of those areas, I'd just rescry until I got one where a seeker wasn't.
spartaxoxo wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »I have advocated for them for three years and have posted multiple videos showing why they're necessary.
These videos do not show that anything is necessary. All they show is one player being able to defeat difficult enemies. That is far from everyone's experience. But even if it was there are still a lot of players that enjoy being strong and able to easily defeat enemies, even Bosses.
Increased difficulty is a personal preference, not a necessity.
The reason for most players driven changes in the game is that a lot of people are complaining about whatever is getting changed. This is why the nerfed herald seekers, for example. A lot of people were complaining about how the increased difficulty of overland was making their experience unpleasant, and ZOS nerfed it. If that is the reason why decreased difficulty is necessary, then it certainly should be a reason why increased difficulty options are necessary too.
Well, my objection to the damned herald seekers wasn't difficulty, as I didn't "choose" to engage them: they kept getting pulled onto me by others fighting them near my dig sites! Ultimately, I learned where they were, and if a site popped up in one of those areas, I'd just rescry until I got one where a seeker wasn't.
They could have resolved that with aggro changes alone but they nerfed the seekers themselves and also lowered the amount needed IIRC.