Warhawke_80 wrote: »Warhawke_80 wrote: »KapiteinBoterham wrote: »It's a disservice to the writing of the quests to have their bosses have so little HP, it's laughable. If you were to just increase their HP a little there would be no problems. Neither would a simple difficulty slider like in Oblivion/Skyrim be too bad, just a health/damage increase or something.
I can't remember if i ever actually needed to take a potion or eat a better food beforehand. It's such a slap in the face to the RPG gaming scene and turns a lot of new players off.
That is an existential argument...one might counter that it is a disservice to all of the players that are use to the current difficulty to go back and change ten years of content because a handful of Trial Players thinks it's too easy.
If ZoS did that the forums would be flooded with players complaining...what would we tell them? To suck it up and git gud?
My point is...your assertion just dosen't take in account the reality of the situation.
A handful of trial players? No, not really. A lot of people aren't satisfied with the current situation regarding overland, while most of them aren't "trial players".
Trying to devalue other peoples arguments by pretending they were only a small minority without any proof and against all probability is just dishonest framing.
Zos already acknowledged several times, that a lot of people are asking for changes regarding overland difficulty. This very thread, as well as the implementation of IA (instead of overland story) and nymics are proof for this.
Besides that: Which issue do you have with the implementation of difficulty sliders or other options to make overland more difficult for those interested in it?
What does that take away from you?
Exactly, absolutely nothing.
All I can say is I have seen your response before...when the SWG forums was flooded with SWG should be more like WoW posts...and what we got was NGE. When any major change to combat happens in any MMO the result has been always a good portion of the player base losing their collective minds after the fact
"Difficulty sliders" will not work ...you have to account for other players in your area, unless you hard lock targets to the player that first engages, that causes a whole new set of problems....
LOTRO devs found that out the hard way no matter what they tried players that wanted more difficult overland content effected those that wanted normal content. They found that out after... AFTER ...they promised difficulty levels...which killed a lot of good will the player base had with the devs.
...what will work for ESO and is a happy compromise is Heroic areas which I am all for...craglorn should have stayed as is more areas like that should have been added while leaving the current world as is
Drammanoth wrote: »Considering your posts @Warhawke_80 and @SilverBride , what would you say for localised challenges in Overland?
Again, it would not affect the whole area, just AN area where a miniboss appears. Or, an Oblivion portal to some Delve-size map with a semi-Raid-level boss...
SilverBride wrote: »Drammanoth wrote: »Considering your posts @Warhawke_80 and @SilverBride , what would you say for localised challenges in Overland?
Again, it would not affect the whole area, just AN area where a miniboss appears. Or, an Oblivion portal to some Delve-size map with a semi-Raid-level boss...
They already added Wandering World Bosses and the Herald Seekers and Bastion Nymics and Oblivion Portals and replaced Dolmens with Harrowstorms and Geysers and Vents and increased the difficulty of World Bosses. That is more than enough in my opinion.
SilverBride wrote: »ESO overland is exactly what it should be.
You're assuming that "a greater challenge" would be something optional. I don't feel as if that's even on the table. If the devs choose to ramp up overland difficulty, my bet is on "here you go deal with it" - for everyone. The optional things are.... stuff like IA. Severly contained. If all of you get your harder overland, I actually don't think it's going to be anywhere close to "optional".
It's a huge ask. Even a toggle is a huge ask. These are the devs who are wrestling with 15 year old code (or more) - an in-house rewrite of a commercial engine from 15 or more years ago. I'm betting that the current dev team doesn't actually have any real grasp of what might be necessary to make you "harder overland" people happy.
If the problem is quest bosses, the solution would be taken from FFXIV.
Instance them, as many are already, and add a selection for difficulty when zoning in.
KapiteinBoterham wrote: »If you think spending 5 to 10 second longer at a now slightly higher HP boss is too big of a price to pay to bring this game back to it's former glory you'd better have a really good argument for why this would not be the solution! And no "i dont like it" is not an argument.
You're assuming that "a greater challenge" would be something optional. I don't feel as if that's even on the table. If the devs choose to ramp up overland difficulty, my bet is on "here you go deal with it" - for everyone. The optional things are.... stuff like IA. Severly contained. If all of you get your harder overland, I actually don't think it's going to be anywhere close to "optional".
It's a huge ask. Even a toggle is a huge ask. These are the devs who are wrestling with 15 year old code (or more) - an in-house rewrite of a commercial engine from 15 or more years ago. I'm betting that the current dev team doesn't actually have any real grasp of what might be necessary to make you "harder overland" people happy.
The likeliest scenario is that they will give you what you want. And the rest of us will be left out in the cold. That's fine with me, because I have many other things I can do - and I'm not at all shy of never paying a sub for this game (much less three annual ones) again. Or even ever playing it at all when it changes to something I really have no use for or interest in.
I hope the rest of the player base is happy with it when you all get your harder overland. The "options" offered in the game to date are nothing even close to what an "optional" harder overland would need to be. I really do wish the devs would figure this out so that those of us who are perfectly happy with the game as it is today will not be dropped to "totally unhappy".
I'm not sanguine about that. And still.... some of you ARE saying "optional" - but others are not.
KapiteinBoterham wrote: »So increasing the HP of only the story/quest bosses, which make up a very small (but important) portion of the overland content, would indeed technically be an "across the board" change yes (which means applied to all players without option or toggle*).
*A toggle would be great but has been requested back in 2021, we have to stay realistic here. Do you want an actual change to be implemented or do you want another 100 extra pages on this thread and nothing being done?
If you think spending 5 to 10 second longer at a now slightly higher HP boss is too big of a price to pay to bring this game back to it's former glory you'd better have a really good argument for why this would not be the solution! And no "i dont like it" is not an argument.
I am so sick of teaching new players/friends (crafting them gear/giving gold) just for them to never come back online again mostly because there just isn't any sense of progression/challenge..
Hope you guys had a good NYE celebration. Vulkhel Guard wayshrine (PCEU) was crazy around twelve o'clock!
Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »If the problem is quest bosses, the solution would be taken from FFXIV.
Instance them, as many are already, and add a selection for difficulty when zoning in.
It has been a long time since I played FF XIV. I liked the way FF XIV handles quest bosses but as I recall it has a drawback of most of the time you are forced to run it solo whereas ESO tends to be friendly to doing stuff in a party. If ESO were to instance bosses it would have to accommodate parties.
jbarnhill1b14_ESO wrote: »This thread is two years old but I really hope it's still being monitored. I came to the forum today to ask for a greater challenge in overland. I understand that there are people who want it to stay the way it is, but it's truly mind-numbingly easy even for brand-new players.
KapiteinBoterham wrote: »<snipped>
If this small HP increase (story/quest bosses only!) is truly a problem for you please let this thread know by replying with an argument that supports your opinion. If you are not able to support your opinion i think ZOS should consider not taking it into consideration.
KapiteinBoterham wrote: »[snip] Increasing the HP (a little) would be a step in the good direction and would merely create the sense of difficulty/challenge.
KapiteinBoterham wrote: »
If the next 10 pages of this thread would only be filled with "please just add a little HP to story/quest bosses" or "i wouldn't mind a little extra HP on the bosses" it might actually get implemented by the devs.
KapiteinBoterham wrote: »If you think the solution i have offered is not a good solution please reply with a good reason or argument and maybe we can find an even better middleground!
Hi All, as many of you have noted already from Rich's interview, there are no current plans for changing the structure of overland content. It is something we will continue to look at, so constructive feedback is always appreciated.
The purpose of this thread is to collect constructive feedback so if there is an opportunity to make changes, we have feedback from players to possibly incorporate. However, if the conversation continues to be users arguing with each other, we will lock this thread. We understand not everyone will agree with the statement. However, you can disagree and voice it without pushing the buttons of other forum users.
As always, please follow the community guidelines.
IKYMI: Rich's Quote on Overland Content
"That's a difficult one because difficulty is definitely subjective. We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points. Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms. I also look back and remember we had harder Overland content. We had Cadwell Silver, we had Cadwell Gold, and players really didn't like it. It was too hard for them, and when we did One Tamriel, we ripped all that out based on player feedback. Like, nobody did it. So it's a challenging subject and a difficult question to answer. All I can really say is we're definitely looking at it, but we don't have any major changes planned for the Overland difficulty."
TL;DR - I think it's more complicated than just blanket-making-bosses-more-difficult, and requires a more complex solution that adds optional increased difficulty for those who want it, while keeping overland enjoyable for those who are not playing for a challenge.
KapiteinBoterham wrote: »...So if we all unanimously ask for a simpler solution (again: a little extra HP for story/quest bosses) there is a much bigger chance of something actually being done!...
KapiteinBoterham wrote: »I cannot wrap my head around the fact that this very minor increase would cause a problem for anyone (how casual they might be) and i still haven't seen any solid arguments supporting this.
KapiteinBoterham wrote: »
So if we all unanimously ask for a simpler solution (again: a little extra HP for story/quest bosses) there is a much bigger chance of something actually being done!
Accidentally hit post too early.KapiteinBoterham wrote: »TL;DR - I think it's more complicated than just blanket-making-bosses-more-difficult, and requires a more complex solution that adds optional increased difficulty for those who want it, while keeping overland enjoyable for those who are not playing for a challenge.
The problem is: the more complex the solution we demand, the smaller the chance that it will get actually implemented (ahem, 190 pages in). So if we all unanimously ask for a simpler solution (again: a little extra HP for story/quest bosses) there is a much bigger chance of something actually being done!
-snip -
So you might have to live with posting your opinion for ZoS to see, making your arguments, and hoping they agree.