Overland Content Feedback Thread

SilverBride

casparian wrote: »

Something like that has been a common suggestion, yes. The objections most commonly brought up are:
1. I don't care about that and like current overland just fine, and the devs should spend time on something I care about not something you care about.
2. A harder mode would have to include better rewards and I don't want an activity I don't to engage in to have better rewards than the activities I do engage in.
3. One Tamriel already had a hard overland and everyone hated it, why would this be any better?
4. Just go play [some other activity] if you want hard content.

No one has said things this way. This sums up what was discussed more accurately:

1. I don't care about that and like current overland just fine, and the devs should spend time on something I care about not something you care about. and do not want difficulty in the story.

2. A harder mode would have to include better rewards and I don't want an activity I don't to engage in to have better rewards than the activities I do engage in. If the reason for more difficulty is immersion then that is the reward.

3. One Tamriel already had a hard overland and everyone hated it, why would this be any better? and the game was failing because of it. Why go back to something that failed so badly before?

4. Just go play [some other activity] if you want hard content because that is what these other activities were designed for.


It also needs to be noted that many of us that are happy with overland just as it is still support some of the suggestions presented, such as difficulty sliders and challenge banners for story bosses, so that others may enjoy their game more as well. The only suggestion with a strong opposition is a separate veteran overland.

casparian

SilverBride wrote: »

No one has said things this way. This sums up what was discussed more accurately:

1. I don't care about that and like current overland just fine, and the devs should spend time on something I care about not something you care about. and do not want difficulty in the story.

2. A harder mode would have to include better rewards and I don't want an activity I don't to engage in to have better rewards than the activities I do engage in. If the reason for more difficulty is immersion then that is the reward.

3. One Tamriel already had a hard overland and everyone hated it, why would this be any better? and the game was failing because of it. Why go back to something that failed so badly before?

4. Just go play [some other activity] if you want hard content because that is what these other activities were designed for.

Those are not materially different from how I put it; I'm happy to accept your wording. I think the responses would be the same. I'd only point out regarding 3 that virtually no one is asking to go back to the 1T system, as I pointed out in my post.

But I totally agree with you that the consensus of the thread seems to be that most everyone would be happy with optional difficulty sliders and challenge banners.

SilverBride

casparian wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

No one has said things this way. This sums up what was discussed more accurately:

1. I don't care about that and like current overland just fine, and the devs should spend time on something I care about not something you care about. and do not want difficulty in the story.

2. A harder mode would have to include better rewards and I don't want an activity I don't to engage in to have better rewards than the activities I do engage in. If the reason for more difficulty is immersion then that is the reward.

3. One Tamriel already had a hard overland and everyone hated it, why would this be any better? and the game was failing because of it. Why go back to something that failed so badly before?

4. Just go play [some other activity] if you want hard content because that is what these other activities were designed for.

Those are not materially different from how I put it; I'm happy to accept your wording. I think the responses would be the same. I'd only point out regarding 3 that virtually no one is asking to go back to the 1T system, as I pointed out in my post.

But I totally agree with you that the consensus of the thread seems to be that most everyone would be happy with optional difficulty sliders and challenge banners.

They are very different. No one that likes overland as it is has ever told someone that "the devs should spend time on something I care about not something you care about."

Many players that do not think a separate veteran overland is a good idea are concerned about how separating the playerbase would negatively affect the game, and the developers have expressed the same concern.

Elsonso

Trier_Sero wrote: »

I'm pretty sure this has been suggested already, but I can't read through 180 pages so...
Can't we use existing layers system to create versions of locations with higher difficulty? Current overland would be an easy mode, then normal mode, something like craglorn, accessible after 160cp or something and then hard mode with mobs on level of veteran dungeons/normal trials, accessible after 300cp for example. Difficulty slider to switch between them.

It is technically possible, yes. Lambert frequently said on his streams that many things were possible. He said that enough that I don't think the question is about what they can do.

The question seems to be whether ZOS wants to invest the time and effort into an overland with different layers of difficulty when they have said that the decision was to put the difficulty into dungeons and arenas rather than the general overland.

Trier_Sero

I like casparian's summary more.
Overland is not fine as it is. By the time I got to Cadwell's silver I already got my first sets so AD and EP questlines felt like a joke. Even craglorn stops being a challenge after you reach 700-800cp.

LasrRed

We did have harder overland content. People threw a fit so they dumbed it down with One Tamriel. Same with IC.

Snamyap

casparian wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

No one has said things this way. This sums up what was discussed more accurately:

1. I don't care about that and like current overland just fine, and the devs should spend time on something I care about not something you care about. and do not want difficulty in the story.

2. A harder mode would have to include better rewards and I don't want an activity I don't to engage in to have better rewards than the activities I do engage in. If the reason for more difficulty is immersion then that is the reward.

3. One Tamriel already had a hard overland and everyone hated it, why would this be any better? and the game was failing because of it. Why go back to something that failed so badly before?

4. Just go play [some other activity] if you want hard content because that is what these other activities were designed for.

Those are not materially different from how I put it; I'm happy to accept your wording. I think the responses would be the same. I'd only point out regarding 3 that virtually no one is asking to go back to the 1T system, as I pointed out in my post.

But I totally agree with you that the consensus of the thread seems to be that most everyone would be happy with optional difficulty sliders and challenge banners.

We currently have the One Tamriel system, harder overland content was a pre One Tamriel thing.

Snamyap

LasrRed wrote: »

We did have harder overland content. People threw a fit so they dumbed it down with One Tamriel. Same with IC.

There is nothing wrong with the 1T concept. Making the whole world more or less the same difficulty fixes the issue of content going obsolete/abandoned. But this was introduced almost 7 years ago, player character power has exploded while the difficulty of overland/quest mobs has remained the same. It's weird how some people balk at the idea of harder overland while back when 1T was introduced, and characters were a lot less powerful, nobody complained overland was too hard.

SilverBride

Snamyap wrote: »

It's weird how some people balk at the idea of harder overland while back when 1T was introduced, and characters were a lot less powerful, nobody complained overland was too hard.

One Tamriel also introduced players scaling to the mobs in overland zones.

Blackbird_V

SilverBride wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

It's weird how some people balk at the idea of harder overland while back when 1T was introduced, and characters were a lot less powerful, nobody complained overland was too hard.

One Tamriel also introduced players scaling to the mobs in overland zones.

That scaling system is whack. Way too overtuned. Makes low level chars too strong.

Snamyap

SilverBride wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

It's weird how some people balk at the idea of harder overland while back when 1T was introduced, and characters were a lot less powerful, nobody complained overland was too hard.

One Tamriel also introduced players scaling to the mobs in overland zones.

That only goes for players under level 50/160. Mobs are stuck at this level, and are but a speedbump to people with 2k+ CP, which really isn't a rare thing anymore. We could easily handle the mobs seven years ago with a couple hundred CP, the system needs to be brought up to date.

SilverBride

Snamyap wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

It's weird how some people balk at the idea of harder overland while back when 1T was introduced, and characters were a lot less powerful, nobody complained overland was too hard.

One Tamriel also introduced players scaling to the mobs in overland zones.

That only goes for players under level 50/160. Mobs are stuck at this level, and are but a speedbump to people with 2k+ CP, which really isn't a rare thing anymore. We could easily handle the mobs seven years ago with a couple hundred CP, the system needs to be brought up to date.

Those with high CP and gear and skills and experience can handle it, but just being powerful doesn't mean we don't prefer a relaxed questing experience. And what about new characters and those new to ESO? They are in overland, too.

Snamyap

SilverBride wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

It's weird how some people balk at the idea of harder overland while back when 1T was introduced, and characters were a lot less powerful, nobody complained overland was too hard.

One Tamriel also introduced players scaling to the mobs in overland zones.

That only goes for players under level 50/160. Mobs are stuck at this level, and are but a speedbump to people with 2k+ CP, which really isn't a rare thing anymore. We could easily handle the mobs seven years ago with a couple hundred CP, the system needs to be brought up to date.

And what about new characters and those new to ESO? They are in overland, too.

Like you wrote earlier: they introduced scaling. And it's ludicrous to balance 80% of the game to brand new players.

Marcus684

Snamyap wrote: »

LasrRed wrote: »

We did have harder overland content. People threw a fit so they dumbed it down with One Tamriel. Same with IC.

There is nothing wrong with the 1T concept. Making the whole world more or less the same difficulty fixes the issue of content going obsolete/abandoned. But this was introduced almost 7 years ago, player character power has exploded while the difficulty of overland/quest mobs has remained the same. It's weird how some people balk at the idea of harder overland while back when 1T was introduced, and characters were a lot less powerful, nobody complained overland was too hard.

Oh, people complained plenty about how hard overland was back then. Maybe you've just forgotten or didn't see it.

Some people are balking at the idea of an across-the-board increase in overland difficulty because many people don't want difficult overland, but would rather breeze through the combat while enjoying the story. Having easy overland with more difficult combat in dungeons/trials/DLC WBs/etc. satisfies the desires of both camps without excluding either.

Yes, power creep has made combat during questing trivial for most players, but there are still some that find it challenging due to personal factors, and buffing it would put the game out of reach for many of them. How about we just leave it as-is and continue to let everyone have a seat at the table?

ZOS is actively working to add new and more challenging content for those that want it, so I see no compelling reason for them to devote scarce dev time to reworking old base game content to satisfy the demands of a small minority, to the detriment of others.

Blackbird_V

Snamyap wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

It's weird how some people balk at the idea of harder overland while back when 1T was introduced, and characters were a lot less powerful, nobody complained overland was too hard.

One Tamriel also introduced players scaling to the mobs in overland zones.

That only goes for players under level 50/160. Mobs are stuck at this level, and are but a speedbump to people with 2k+ CP, which really isn't a rare thing anymore. We could easily handle the mobs seven years ago with a couple hundred CP, the system needs to be brought up to date.

And what about new characters and those new to ESO? They are in overland, too.

Like you wrote earlier: they introduced scaling. And it's ludicrous to balance 80% of the game to brand new players.

New level 3 characters with crafted tank sets.... can outtank max cp dd's and other tanks lmfao

---

SilverBride

Snamyap wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

And what about new characters and those new to ESO? They are in overland, too.

Like you wrote earlier: they introduced scaling. And it's ludicrous to balance 80% of the game to brand new players.

The game is also balanced for the many players that enjoy a relaxed questing experience and do not want to struggle through the story.

LesserCircle

SilverBride wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

And what about new characters and those new to ESO? They are in overland, too.

Like you wrote earlier: they introduced scaling. And it's ludicrous to balance 80% of the game to brand new players.

The game is also balanced for the many players that enjoy a relaxed questing experience and do not want to struggle through the story.

Any easier and it would be like an interactive movie. Some amount of struggle is needed to feel like we really beat the bad guys.

Snamyap

SilverBride wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

And what about new characters and those new to ESO? They are in overland, too.

Like you wrote earlier: they introduced scaling. And it's ludicrous to balance 80% of the game to brand new players.

The game is also balanced for the many players that enjoy a relaxed questing experience and do not want to struggle through the story.

We are never going to agree on this, but just for the fun of it, here is the definition of a quest by the Oxford Dictionary:

noun: quest; plural noun: quests
a long or arduous search for something.

For ESO they should just rename it to errand running instead of questing.

SilverBride

LesserCircle wrote: »

Some amount of struggle is needed to feel like we really beat the bad guys.

Not for me. I feel like I beat the bad guys when I outsmart them and overpower them with my strength. Not because the fight takes longer.

SilverBride

Snamyap wrote: »

...here is the definition of a quest by the Oxford Dictionary:

noun: quest; plural noun: quests
a long or arduous search for something.

That is the definition for a real life quest.

This is the definition for a quest as it relates to gaming:

"A quest, or mission, is a task in video games that a player-controlled character, party, or group of characters may complete in order to gain a reward."

Muizer

Couple of things:

If people actually wanted the same encounters while questing, except with stronger opposition, all they'd have to do is gimp themselves. If that were satisfactory, this thread would not exist.

I would maintain that a separate instances with the same encounters but with beefed up opposition would be just as ineffective at making overland more appealing.

I don't think overhauling the encounters to make them resemble harder content (e.g. spawning new enemies mid-encounter) is remotely feasible.

The only option to make questing harder without overhauling the encounters is to tag hard content onto quests: I.e. whatever it is must seek out the player where they need to go on their quests. Dynamic encounters if you will.

And that could easily be made opt-in too.

Four_Fingers

I think we are really talking about producing two entirely different games as on the harder version AI needs to be smarter with harder mechanics as most won't be satisfied with just mobs with higher health or gimping themselves.
Which is also so much more than just another instance.
There is going to have to be compromise somewhere, maybe adding a harder zone in a DLC going forward.
That said I don't think ZOS wants to mess with their current business plan this far in.

Hanoan

I see this thread is already 2 years old. Did they do any moves towards increasing difficulty in any way?

Simple difficulty slider would be nice, layered overland with different levels of difficulty even better. This will also split overland population a bit, last time I played (2-3 years ago maybe) it felt like going through a mall instead of going on adventure.

Bosses are just named mobs: do not add anything to the game. Before overland became easy, a lot of boss fights were memorable. For example battling together with 3 NPCs vs a necromancer boss somewhere in Skyrim: during tough battle he killed one of NPCs and raised a skeleton out of him to join a fight. Maybe NPC death was scripted, and skeleton summon just one of the necromancer's skills, but all together with tired and shocked comments of remaining NPCs after the fight it felt EPIC. I doubt that with current difficulty I can find anything even remotely looking like that, that boss would not even have time to finish his introduction.

SilverBride

Hanoan wrote: »

I see this thread is already 2 years old. Did they do any moves towards increasing difficulty in any way?

They said that Bastion Nymics is one of their answers to those that want increased overland difficulty. This leads me to believe there may be more things coming in the future.

Deserrick

As a new player, Overland content is already too difficult for me to play how I want; instead, choosing skills and equipment that feel interesting, thematic, or roleplay-friendly is punished by death. A difficulty slider like Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim had would potentially satisfy those who feel Overland is too easy, as well as those like me who would like more freedom for building and playing our characters.

Elsonso

SilverBride wrote: »

Hanoan wrote: »

I see this thread is already 2 years old. Did they do any moves towards increasing difficulty in any way?

They said that Bastion Nymics is one of their answers to those that want increased overland difficulty. This leads me to believe there may be more things coming in the future.

The Endless Archive is probably a movement towards making harder content, as well. Not overland, but it is certainly content that will scale up until the player gives up.

Twohothardware

Overland content needs to be made harder across the board for players of all levels. Even brand new players to the game say the overland content is too easy. We need greater enemy density more like it is in newer public dungeons and the enemies need to be more of a challenge and actually capable of killing you regardless of your CP level. Play a few other games like Diablo IV and Elden Ring and find a middle ground for ESO between too hard and braindead easy.

Gibrans

Overland content has needed a "veteran" mode for a while, one that includes better rewards like skins, mounts, costumes, and pets behind it. Make it optional to make both sides happy. Current overland content is a joke, they'll hype up the zones big bad boss meanwhile you can beat them naked with your fist without being high level lol real immersive

SilverBride

Twohothardware wrote: »

Overland content needs to be made harder across the board for players of all levels.

No, it does not. There are many that do not want difficulty in the story and quests and that would cause a lot of players to leave, just like they did before One Tamriel.

Gibrans wrote: »

Overland content has needed a "veteran" mode for a while, one that includes better rewards like skins, mounts, costumes, and pets behind it. Make it optional to make both sides happy.

That would not make both sides happy. I am very against a separate veteran overland, especially if it includes better rewards.

Gibrans

Gibrans wrote: »

Overland content has needed a "veteran" mode for a while, one that includes better rewards like skins, mounts, costumes, and pets behind it. Make it optional to make both sides happy.

That would not make both sides happy. I am very against a separate veteran overland, especially if it includes better rewards.[/quote]

So you wouldn't want something that would be completely optional to you? Makes sense lol