Overland Content Feedback Thread

Tornaad

Taraezor wrote: »

Hi. I'm super casual. Up to a year or two ago I struggled with all content. I've been playing since the start of ESO.

I did, one day, git good. Now overland content is often easy, but still a challenge in the newer zones for certain mobs.

Please do NOT make regular Overland harder.

Please ALWAYS ensure that ALL of the zone's story is accessible in Overland, with some side embellishments available in dungeons and trials, as always has been the case.

Please do NOT add a veteran mode to Overland IF that means that average players like me will get a feeling that we are missing out on (a) story content, (b) accessibility to gear.

(b) is important. My characters are equipped with the best quality crafted gear or gear farmed from many lower to mid level solo dungeon runs - I then alter traits in Clockwork City and gold the gear with my maxed out crafting characters.

But if I then noticed that I must switch to veteran to run Overland content then I'll be disappointed. If veteran means gold rather than blue or purple quality drops then no problem. But if the sets are completely different or indeed only, say, shoulders or necks drop in veteran, then I'd be really upset.

The crafting system, compared to other games, is a masterpiece - the time gating is just right for me!

Please make the ESO+ daily log in rewards better - they suck big time.

The big goal that the vast majority of us are after is not a universal increase to overland difficulty, some kind of optional increase. The option I currently like best is something like challenge banners that make the bosses more difficult for whoever triggered the banner (and their party). Right now, I like the idea of just getting better quality gear rather than different gear. I don't know that I am opposed to having different gear dropped, but it would make it more work to do and I am more interested in getting the option to have a harder difficulty when I want it, than I am in new gear to collect, so if that is a deal breaker, then I am fine with them leaving it out. Really, I would be fine if they just gave me the option to have harder difficulty through something like a challenge banner.

vsrs_au

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

All I've ever seen in this thread over the years is people advocating for separate sharding or a difficulty slider/debuff memento.

Then you haven't read the whole thread. Some of us (myself included) have proposed options other than those two.

ssewallb14_ESO

I gotta say, in terms of level and environment design, Necrom is some of the nicest work I've seen from this game. Even the delves. Fathom's drift feels like something out of a single player TES game. Like I don't want to rush through it, I just want to look around at everything. Hope stuff like this continues going forward.

tokeinskyblu

Is necrom overland harder then the rest if the game overland? Have not played in months but want a reason to come back.

Or is it the same hand holding boring content?

colossalvoids

tokeinskyblu wrote: »

Is necrom overland harder then the rest if the game overland? Have not played in months but want a reason to come back.

Or is it the same hand holding boring content?

Depends how you see overland and your experience, for me there's zero difference whilst some are consider it harder because some "wandering wb" thingies and excursion event being instanced instead of a usual dolmen like event. There's no changes to the formula yet.

psychotrip

This thread has been up for years.

Has anything meaningfully changed? I havent played in a while.

spartaxoxo

psychotrip wrote: »

This thread has been up for years.

Has anything meaningfully changed? I havent played in a while.

They added a new instance to address overland in the new chapter.

Sarannah

Thinking of a way to do this, I've come up with one. We already have a disguise slot as a gearslot, so why not use it for this purpose?

ZOS could release a disguise pack which does not alter your looks, but does lower your power.

Disguise: Lowers your stats, skills, damage, health, resources, regens, gearstats, gearbonusses, speed, and CP influence by 10%. And this for every 10%, up to 90%(disguise 1-9). This way players who want more difficult overland can choose for themselves how tough they want things to be.

PS: This would only conflict with quests where we have to wear an actual disguise, but that hardly ever happens. So that shouldn't be much of an issue.
PPS: We need a way to find our own replies in a thread, like how we can track dev replies in a thread.

SirTraski

Regarding the overland content difficulty conversation, there are a few possibilities how to solve this dilemma regarding both accessibility and rewards balance questions.

Taking inspiration from game's dungeon design - a brazier could be lit before entering a delve to activate "hard mode". Another suggestion would be to be able to utilize the difficulty mode from the group finder - this is how you generally change dungeon/arena/trial difficulties. This way, it would only be there for those, who want to engage in it.

One example from another game, Path of Exile during the last Crucible league was about imbuing special qualities onto your weapon in this volcanic-like forges and you would interact with them by holding down your left mouse click and filling up a bar. Fuller bar means higher mob density and increased mob damage - but you would unlock the qualities a bit faster, if you manage to do it. In ESO's case, added power is NOT the answer - the ceiling is already very high as it is, even with trying to raise the floor over the year. So, what the rewards should be then?

Personally, I would love to see more cosmetics, mounts, furniture, emotes, skins, pets, etc...
For context, I started playing the game during PC launch 2014 - and the multitude of changes this game has gone through over the years have been a blistering and, honestly - quite the confusing rollercoaster ride. After all these years and all these changes, I think the game has improved pretty much across the board - except in this area.

One complain I've heard over and over again, is why when you travel to a zone that's a jungle, you can only still buy the same four horses. When I'm going to Alik'r desert, I'm expecting to see a camel - or when I'm in Vvardenfell, a stablemaster with a purchasable guar or Kagouti would make more sense to me. It would not give an advantage over anyone and still you could go, like: "Wow, I remember when I did that thing, and it was really hard - and now I've unlocked this cool mount"...or, something.

Reward structure is a fine balance - and since this is overland content we're talking about - players from all across should be able to clear base content without having to be a professional raid team member.
Delves would be the perfect candidate, because instances are easier to manage and the increased difficulty wouldn't need to be excessive. It's also introducing this mechanic earlier on, so player know what it as and what to expect. It's more about how significant it feels to the player itself that makes you wanna go get these things in an MMO.

Marcus684

psychotrip wrote: »

This thread has been up for years.

Has anything meaningfully changed? I havent played in a while.

No change to overland difficulty has happened since One Tamriel, and if anything it's slowly decreased over time due to power creep. It's patently obvious that ZOS hasn't seen a need to make any adjustments to overland difficulty, except to introduce things like wandering world bosses in The Deadlands and Galen, in attempt to appease those calling for higher difficulty without ruining overland for those who aren't.

Muizer

spartaxoxo wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

This thread has been up for years.

Has anything meaningfully changed? I havent played in a while.

They added a new instance to address overland in the new chapter.

Bastion Nymic? I don't have Necrom (yet) but from videos I've seen I don't understand how this is supposed to count as 'overland'. It has a lot of characteristics of a dungeon. So what exactly is 'overland' about it? Can I freely explore? Are there multiple main story quests and side quests? Is it free from end bosses with boss mechanics? Is the area public and not group based? As far as I can tell the answer to all of these is 'no'.

spartaxoxo

Muizer wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

psychotrip wrote: »

This thread has been up for years.

Has anything meaningfully changed? I havent played in a while.

They added a new instance to address overland in the new chapter.

Bastion Nymic? I don't have Necrom (yet) but from videos I've seen I don't understand how this is supposed to count as 'overland'. It has a lot of characteristics of a dungeon. So what exactly is 'overland' about it? Can I freely explore? Are there multiple main story quests and side quests? Is it free from end bosses with boss mechanics? Is the area public and not group based? As far as I can tell the answer to all of these is 'no'.

The answer is no to all of those, although I'm not sure why having a boss makes it not overland. But, they consider it as such and explicitly stated it was a response to feedback asking for harder Overland. I will say that it's designed from the ground up to not require a healer or tank, which does give it a slightly different feel to a dungeon.

Muizer

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I will say that it's designed from the ground up to not require a healer or tank, which does give it a slightly different feel to a dungeon.

I suspect, but don't know for certain, that the most of the demand for more challenging overland does not come from people who would be happy with a dungeon with a slightly different feel. More likely it's people who would prefer a more Skyrim like difficulty level in open world. I can't imagine anyone could think that a dungeon-y approach would provide that. An overland saturate with still the same weak mobs, but unsoloable bosses with mechanics you can only learn by dying? I don't think so.

spartaxoxo

Oh. I definitely agree there. I didn't think it was a good solution, personally. But, it's the one they decided on. It took the place of a world event.

Edit: the mechs are actually pretty easy. I haven't had a Bastian group fail yet.

Cadbury

For better or worse, Bastion Nymic is considered a successful addition for those wanting a harder overland.

I wouldn't be surprised if the devs consider it problem solved and close this thread.

SilverBride

Cadbury wrote: »

For better or worse, Bastion Nymic is considered a successful addition for those wanting a harder overland.

I wouldn't be surprised if the devs consider it problem solved and close this thread.

We already know that some want more overland difficulty and some don't, so there really isn't anything new to add to that. They also said Bastion Nymics was one of their answers to those wanting more difficult overland, so there may be more to come.

I think it would be more productive to close this thread and start a new one with the focus on how well the Bastion Nymics are working for those who want a more difficult overland and what else may be on the horizon.

Mayrael

Players want harder overland because they want OVERLAND QUESTS to be more challenging and meaningful, not to have harder repeatable activity - we have plenty of those in dungeons form.

Tornaad

Mayrael wrote: »

Players want harder overland because they want OVERLAND QUESTS to be more challenging and meaningful, not to have harder repeatable activity - we have plenty of those in dungeons form.

More specifically, I want something to help give me inspiration to help finish my poem.

A Hero's Birth

What is this thing lost to dream and dust
Lost to mem'ry, feeling, passion, and thought
…
This thing … it has hands, feet, even has a face
This thing … lost to tides of time … is me
… but who am I … who is this forgotten thing
… I should be a hero … no … that's not right
…I need to become a hero … the hero
…
I remember … shadows … feelings... maybe thoughts
I remember... I remember the Nightmare
sculpted into flesh … sculpted into thought
sculpted into the perfection of pain
The Nightmare … place … person … maybe
It wasn't a dream … I wasn't asleep
…
He killed me … the nightmare killed me!
It tried to rebuild my mind, heart, body
rebuild me into a weapon … the weapon
But in that goal, he failed, he had to fail
he had to fail for his goal is destruction
and that destruction must come to all
including the wretched Nightmare himself
so even if it wins, it still loses
so even if it rises triumphant, it loses
for to gain all it longs for is to lose
…
But how to get there… how do I win?
I face the Nightmare and I am ... me
How do I win against that! How do I live!
How do I rise as triumphant as the sun!
I don't have that kind of strength … I need more
….
Now I remember! Yes! I can find the strength!
I have the chance to find the strength!
My work is not done, it has just begun.
I've been given a gift from on high
and I shall take that gift and I will fight
I will cast off the chains of hell and rise up!
I will scour every part of the land
I will find my power! I will find my strength!
and I will not rest until I've won

SilverBride

Mayrael wrote: »

Players want harder overland because they want OVERLAND QUESTS to be more challenging and meaningful, not to have harder repeatable activity - we have plenty of those in dungeons form.

I absolutely do not want the quests to be more challenging. I remember how they were back before One Tamriel and that is what drove me away. I want to enjoy the story as I quest, not struggle. And I'm not the only one that feels this way.

We have almost 10 years of quests now. It would be a huge undertaking to rewrite all of them for the few players that want that, all for quests that can only be played once per character.

Tornaad

SilverBride wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Players want harder overland because they want OVERLAND QUESTS to be more challenging and meaningful, not to have harder repeatable activity - we have plenty of those in dungeons form.

I absolutely do not want the quests to be more challenging. I remember how they were back before One Tamriel and that is what drove me away. I want to enjoy the story as I quest, not struggle. And I'm not the only one that feels this way.

We have almost 10 years of quests now. It would be a huge undertaking to rewrite all of them for the few players that want that, all for quests that can only be played once per character.

I only want them under the condition that the increased difficulty is optional. For example, with a challenge banner at the end before you face the last boss of the quest.

spartaxoxo

I want quests to be more challenging through optional means as well e.g. challenge banners, debuff sliders, etc. This way those that like it the way it is can continue to play it that way, and those of us want more of a challenge can enjoy the immersion flavor it adds by being more difficult

colossalvoids

If nothing is done 10 years would become 15 etc, it's work that should be started somewhere before it gets too overwhelmingly large undertaking.

It's not only about old players retention, a lot of players are again seeking challenges that modern gaming tends to lack, pretty sure there are about the same amount of quitters for a low difficulty reasons same as ones who thought that the difficulty is too high right now.

Tornaad

I just thought of another solution to the overland content difficulty problem. It is not the best, but it would at least provide a workable solution.
Background:
I have just recently finished getting my Arcanist up to level 50 and have a few more skills to finish leveling before I am finished. I have not even begun to start thinking about builds for my Arcanist yet, I am just enjoying the time getting used to the class. With the Undaunted celebration I pulled out my fully leveled Sorcerer who has a wonderful build on him, and then discovered just how easy things are with him, especially compared to my Arcanist. And after thinking about that for a few days, I came up with a solution to the overland difficulty problem that I would be happy with.

Proposal
Add the ability for the Armory system to store gear along with my builds. If that were the case, then I would be able to happily make an Overland content build that is not at all minmaxed and that allows for me to have the challenge I am wanting (or at least get closer to it) and not have to have extra gear stored in my inventory anytime I want to do questing or dungeons, or PVP. From there, if they did that, I would be more likely to purchase more build slots, and not just use the Armory as essentially a way to get a free respec on my character.

If that were done, I would likely get each character with a DPS, Tank, Healer, and PVP builds, along with a few extra slots for fun builds like a stealth build for my Nightblade and of course on for getting free respecs on my characters.

At that point, they would not have to worry about updating anything on overland, and for those who really want, they can then just get less optimized builds to get the increased difficulty they are after. And all, while generating extra revenue for Zos.

Muizer

Here's a suggestion that might help while leaving current overland exactly as it is.

Create some dark agency of bounty hunters that come after the player, but only if they trigger some condition (i.e. opt-in).

Triggering that condition would lead to random encounters with assassins, ambush style. The more you survive, the harder the encounters get.

The nature of the encounters should be such that they would prevent you mindlessly running from quest marker to quest marker without having to have pay attention to your surroundings.

Tornaad

Muizer wrote: »

Here's a suggestion that might help while leaving current overland exactly as it is.

Create some dark agency of bounty hunters that come after the player, but only if they trigger some condition (i.e. opt-in).

Triggering that condition would lead to random encounters with assassins, ambush style. The more you survive, the harder the encounters get.

The nature of the encounters should be such that they would prevent you mindlessly running from quest marker to quest marker without having to have pay attention to your surroundings.

I'm not sure what I think about that one, but thank you for sharing.

Maitsukas

SilverBride wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Players want harder overland because they want OVERLAND QUESTS to be more challenging and meaningful, not to have harder repeatable activity - we have plenty of those in dungeons form.

I absolutely do not want the quests to be more challenging. I remember how they were back before One Tamriel and that is what drove me away. I want to enjoy the story as I quest, not struggle. And I'm not the only one that feels this way.

We have almost 10 years of quests now. It would be a huge undertaking to rewrite all of them for the few players that want that, all for quests that can only be played once per character.

Back then I had to leave the game for a year, because I couldn't complete the Stormhaven storyline as part of my Cadwell's Silver. The boss at the at-Tura Estate was impossible for me to defeat, no matter what I tried.

Tornaad

Maitsukas wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Players want harder overland because they want OVERLAND QUESTS to be more challenging and meaningful, not to have harder repeatable activity - we have plenty of those in dungeons form.

I absolutely do not want the quests to be more challenging. I remember how they were back before One Tamriel and that is what drove me away. I want to enjoy the story as I quest, not struggle. And I'm not the only one that feels this way.

We have almost 10 years of quests now. It would be a huge undertaking to rewrite all of them for the few players that want that, all for quests that can only be played once per character.

Back then I had to leave the game for a year, because I couldn't complete the Stormhaven storyline as part of my Cadwell's Silver. The boss at the at-Tura Estate was impossible for me to defeat, no matter what I tried.

And this is why I do not want an across the board difficulty increase. I only want an optional increase. I am open to how that is implemented.

Trier_Sero

I'm pretty sure this has been suggested already, but I can't read through 180 pages so...
Can't we use existing layers system to create versions of locations with higher difficulty? Current overland would be an easy mode, then normal mode, something like craglorn, accessible after 160cp or something and then hard mode with mobs on level of veteran dungeons/normal trials, accessible after 300cp for example. Difficulty slider to switch between them.

casparian

Trier_Sero wrote: »

I'm pretty sure this has been suggested already, but I can't read through 180 pages so...
Can't we use existing layers system to create versions of locations with higher difficulty? Current overland would be an easy mode, then normal mode, something like craglorn, accessible after 160cp or something and then hard mode with mobs on level of veteran dungeons/normal trials, accessible after 300cp for example. Difficulty slider to switch between them.

Something like that has been a common suggestion, yes. The objections most commonly brought up are:
1. I don't care about that and like current overland just fine, and the devs should spend time on something I care about not something you care about.
2. A harder mode would have to include better rewards and I don't want an activity I don't to engage in to have better rewards than the activities I do engage in.
3. One Tamriel already had a hard overland and everyone hated it, why would this be any better?
4. Just go play [some other activity] if you want hard content.

If you scroll far back enough you can find a lot of discussion of each of those points. The main counterarguments to those objections have been:

1. The devs already pour lots of time and effort into multiple systems that not all players engage with.
2. The fun from added difficulty is the reward. Besides, even if there are increased rewards (more gold, xp, etc.), it wouldn't matter that much since overland rewards aren't that great in the first place and they're not the reason people want to play the story content.
3. This is a red herring. We're not asking for 1T to be reinstated, we're asking for a new system. Yeah 1T was bad, but the status quo is just the opposite extreme and it's also bad.
4. We know there is plenty of optional hard content already, but most of the game is quests and it would be great if everyone were able to play most of the game with a difficulty option that feels immersive to them. Right now only some people can.

TaSheen

@casparian - masterful summation there.