Overland Content Feedback Thread

colossalvoids

Braffin wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Would be a good start implementing something like that in future quest content without backtracking immediately and do it over time, better that than nothing.

Combined with more engaging endgame content (in quality and quantity) like arenas, as is already scheduled for Q4, on a regular basis we could call it a compromise.

One can only wish, miss even mini-trials now but any 4-1 man arenas would definitely improve things a lot.

PrimusTiberius

Wow!! You guys have really gone soft with damage. Since 2019, I've had 18 fully level toons and with Necrom dropping, I had for the first time since 2019, level up a toon. Yesterday I cleared a dungeon (Gorne, public dungeon) with a lv 20 toon with level 9 gear and the only thing I couldn't clear, was the group content in the plaza area.

I remember back in 2018 when trying to clear a delve, I had problems defeating the boss, sometime waiting for another player to run by and I would jump in the fight to defeat the delve boss. Now we can do it with our eyes closed and one hand tied behind our back.

Step it up guys!


P.S. Your CP point system still sinks!! (I'll never forgive you for changing it up the way you did)

Vhozek

I just played PoE for the first time ever and the tutorial boss is a billion times more difficult than majority of the mobs I've had to deal with in ESO, yet that game is doing just fine. I really fail to see where this talk of "new players" struggling comes from.
All I got from it is a few weapons and the reward at town was a gem. Seems like the incentive doesn't need to be there when the combat itself is the incentive.

And no, I'm not a hardcore player. All I do in ESO is delete characters, make new ones, spam normal dungeons, and do quests.

Snamyap

Vhozek wrote: »

I just played PoE for the first time ever and the tutorial boss is a billion times more difficult than majority of the mobs I've had to deal with in ESO,

PoE?

Kendaric

Snamyap wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

I just played PoE for the first time ever and the tutorial boss is a billion times more difficult than majority of the mobs I've had to deal with in ESO,

PoE?

Either Pillars of Eternity or Path of Exile. Which can't really be compared to ESO in regards to combat... Pillars of Eternity is a single player party RPG with RTwP (real time with pause) combat and Path of Exile is an ARPG similiar to Diablo.

Braffin

Kendaric wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

I just played PoE for the first time ever and the tutorial boss is a billion times more difficult than majority of the mobs I've had to deal with in ESO,

PoE?

Pillars of Eternity is a single player party RPG with RTwP (real time with pause) combat

And still one of the best I played since this type of games were thankfully revived a few years ago. If you like this playstyle try pathfinder wotr, it's a wonderful game.

colossalvoids

Not sure if that's about Path of Exile as there's no tutorial there. Whole campaign is a "tutorial" in a sense before going maps. If so that's probably Hillock as a first boss.

Braffin

Just found this quite recent and interesting poll on the eso subreddit:




https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/11u51bm/is_overland_to_easy/

Vhozek

Snamyap wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

I just played PoE for the first time ever and the tutorial boss is a billion times more difficult than majority of the mobs I've had to deal with in ESO,

PoE?

Path of Exile.
And please, do not talk about how you "can't compare ESO to PoE" because you very easily can compare the difference in ass whooping you get from mobs in any game.

SilverBride

The vote is even on this one.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/583436/what-type-of-overland-would-you-prefer/p1

The vote is overwhelming in favor of leaving overland just as it is on this one.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/583551/another-poll-on-overland-difficulty-but-with-more-options

Marcus684

Vhozek wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

I just played PoE for the first time ever and the tutorial boss is a billion times more difficult than majority of the mobs I've had to deal with in ESO,

PoE?

Path of Exile.
And please, do not talk about how you "can't compare ESO to PoE" because you very easily can compare the difference in ass whooping you get from mobs in any game.

Just because you CAN compare them doesn't make the comparison valid.

Braffin

SilverBride wrote: »

The vote is even on this one.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/583436/what-type-of-overland-would-you-prefer/p1

The vote is overwhelming in favor of leaving overland just as it is on this one.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/583551/another-poll-on-overland-difficulty-but-with-more-options

The first poll does indeed show an even result, regarding the question if overland should stay the same or get more difficult. That's why almost nobody is demanding a "forced veteran overland", so both sides may have fun in this game.

The second poll delivers no useable results, due to lack of participation (45 votes in total).

The poll I linked has three advantages tho:
1) The participation is twice as high, than on the poll you linked.
2) Participation isn't restriced to forums users, so a broader audience is reflected.
3) It's by far more recent.

BasP

SilverBride wrote: »

The vote is overwhelming in favor of leaving overland just as it is on this one.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/583551/another-poll-on-overland-difficulty-but-with-more-options

It depends on the way you look at the results, I suppose. The fact is that 61% voted on optionally increasing the difficulty of overland. People just didn't agree on whether that'd be through self nerfs, difficulty settings or a Veteran Overland instance.

I am a bit surprised by the outcome of that Reddit poll though (not that I disagree with those that voted 'Yes').

SilverBride

Bastion Nymics were developed for those that want a more challenging overland. I don't know if they are helping because I haven't tried one yet, mostly because of how time consuming I hear they are. Plus I don't want an extra challenge in overland anyway.

So they are taking this concern seriously and actually developed a new system to address it. But I still think if they added hard mode scrolls to quest bosses it would be more beneficial and satisfying to the players looking for a challenge in the story.

This excerpt was taken from the article below:

With that being said, we do recognize a lot of people want increased overland difficulty and the new world events (Bastion Nymics) that are instanced for up to 4 players in Necrom is one of our answers to that.

https://eso-u.com/articles/eso_developer_ama__las_vegas_global_reveal_2023

Vhozek

Marcus684 wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

Snamyap wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

I just played PoE for the first time ever and the tutorial boss is a billion times more difficult than majority of the mobs I've had to deal with in ESO,

PoE?

Path of Exile.
And please, do not talk about how you "can't compare ESO to PoE" because you very easily can compare the difference in ass whooping you get from mobs in any game.

Just because you CAN compare them doesn't make the comparison valid.

Why not? It's PvE difficulty all the same.
Very first boss in Path of Exile kicks your butt far worse than any overland mob, aside from World Bosses, do. You play for another 5 minutes and there's some fire-themed common mob teleporting on top of you deleting half your HP.
In comparison to ESO, that's the equivalent of a group dungeon boss.
There are ESO dungeon bosses waiting for you as trash mobs in PoE essentially.

Lost Ark mobs are very similarly braindead as ESO mobs but the combat there does not feel floaty.
ZOS could at least update the feel of combat before looking into increasing combat difficulty. Maybe that's all they need to do really. I honestly don't think they've sat down to think about it enough because it eats at their dev time for incoming expansions.
I say you just gotta tweak animation timings and enhance the sounds in specific areas. It feels like you're just swatting flies, there's even a slapping sound for swords lmaoo how are we not swatting flies? 💀💀

The_Lex

Bastion Nymics are not overland content. They are instanced content designed for 3-4 people. They even look like dungeons.

Vhozek

SilverBride wrote: »

Bastion Nymics were developed for those that want a more challenging overland. I don't know if they are helping because I haven't tried one yet, mostly because of how time consuming I hear they are. Plus I don't want an extra challenge in overland anyway.

So they are taking this concern seriously and actually developed a new system to address it. But I still think if they added hard mode scrolls to quest bosses it would be more beneficial and satisfying to the players looking for a challenge in the story.

This excerpt was taken from the article below:

With that being said, we do recognize a lot of people want increased overland difficulty and the new world events (Bastion Nymics) that are instanced for up to 4 players in Necrom is one of our answers to that.

https://eso-u.com/articles/eso_developer_ama__las_vegas_global_reveal_2023

I really think they just need to make a potion that removes the scaling buff at low levels and that's it. There's no need for complicated systems to be added except maybe when it comes to world bosses because those can eventually get overwhelmed with players anyway.

I think world bosses need 2 things:

1: Let players openly engage them. That's basically the way it is right now. No changes.

2: Let players or group of players "challenge" them. By "challenging" a world boss, you alone or your group, gets sent to a separate, inescapable instance (like a ring), where you or your group have to fight the world boss at an increased difficulty based on the amount of players challenging it. Solo challengers just get a WB with more damage, group challengers get a WB with more damage and minions it summons, nearly like a trial boss.
For example: Limbscather in Daggerfall/Glenumbra summons plants around it that attack and pull players.

Kendaric

Vhozek wrote: »

I really think they just need to make a potion that removes the scaling buff at low levels and that's it. There's no need for complicated systems to be added except maybe when it comes to world bosses because those can eventually get overwhelmed with players anyway.
I think world bosses need 2 things.
1: Let players openly engage them. That's basically the way it is right now. No changes.
2: Let players or group of players "challenge" them. By "challenging" a world boss, you alone or your group, gets sent to a separate, inescapable instance (like a ring), where you or your group have to fight the world boss at an increased difficulty based on the amount of players challenging it. Solo challengers just get a WB with more damage, group challengers get a WB with more damage and minions it summons, nearly like a trial boss.
For example: Limbscather in Daggerfall/Glenumbra summons plants around it that attack and pull players.

Yes, that's something I could get behind.

However, while I think the "lowbie buff" is too strong, getting rid of it entirely wouldn't work. But it should be reduced for sure.

The world boss idea is pretty good.

SilverBride

The_Lex wrote: »

Bastion Nymics are not overland content. They are instanced content designed for 3-4 people. They even look like dungeons.

ZoS said they are an overland event that is one of the answers to those wanting increased overland difficulty.

Vhozek

The_Lex wrote: »

Bastion Nymics are not overland content. They are instanced content designed for 3-4 people. They even look like dungeons.

SilverBride wrote: »

The_Lex wrote: »

Bastion Nymics are not overland content. They are instanced content designed for 3-4 people. They even look like dungeons.

ZoS said they are an overland event that is one of the answers to those wanting increased overland difficulty.

I stay under the impression that people who want harder overland content just want to be able to get their butt kicked by mobs when they create a new character.
At least that's all I want. I want low level to feel like it's low level.
Primarily because a bear, lion, troll, giant, and mammoth should all be as dangerous as the animal they actually are.
Quest bosses should also be...well... quest bosses and world bosses should be... do I have to say it?

If the overland mobs had models representing their difficulty, they would all be different breeds of dogs.

colossalvoids

Vhozek wrote: »

The_Lex wrote: »

Bastion Nymics are not overland content. They are instanced content designed for 3-4 people. They even look like dungeons.

SilverBride wrote: »

The_Lex wrote: »

Bastion Nymics are not overland content. They are instanced content designed for 3-4 people. They even look like dungeons.

ZoS said they are an overland event that is one of the answers to those wanting increased overland difficulty.

I stay under the impression that people who want harder overland content just want to be able to get their butt kicked by mobs when they create a new character.
At least that's all I want. I want low level to feel like it's low level.
Primarily because a bear, lion, troll, giant, and mammoth should all be as dangerous as the animal they actually are.
Quest bosses should also be...well... quest bosses and world bosses should be... do I have to say it?

If the overland mobs had models representing their difficulty, they would all be different breeds of dogs.

Personally I'd settle with ability to boost quest bosses, at least main quest ones for each zone and "campaign" ones, meaning original MQ. That's probably the most realistic one to ask, but they'll be developing two fights instead of one from that point on which would cut from some other thing, I'm fine with it personally.

Part about trolls etc. is a valid one for me but I don't expect zos to react on it. Every time going back to eso after single player tes games feels like a joke, same after mentioned PoE or literally eny other game that has combat at it's core. Remember first time seeing a troll in eso, after oblivion and skyrim those were a threat from the very beginning to the end, I was really underwhelmed here to say the least lol. Feels like disneyland version of Elder Scrolls in a sense.

SilverBride

Vhozek wrote: »

I stay under the impression that people who want harder overland content just want to be able to get their butt kicked by mobs when they create a new character.
At least that's all I want. I want low level to feel like it's low level.

That isn't how the game is set up, though. Characters scale to the mobs so that players can start in any zone at any level and play with higher level friends. This was one of the biggest changes with One Tamriel and I doubt they will change that back.

Vhozek

SilverBride wrote: »

Vhozek wrote: »

I stay under the impression that people who want harder overland content just want to be able to get their butt kicked by mobs when they create a new character.
At least that's all I want. I want low level to feel like it's low level.

That isn't how the game is set up, though. Characters scale to the mobs so that players can start in any zone at any level and play with higher level friends. This was one of the biggest changes with One Tamriel and I doubt they will change that back.

They really just need a potion that removes the low level buff One Tamriel gave us.
Potion of Enlightenment is what I call it since that's what you become at level 50, when the buff supposedly disappears and naked combat becomes more difficult (thought pointless cause you're max level).

Vhozek

Overland content is solved the moment to unlock your spammable.
If they just centered difficulty between getting your butt handed to you if you were naked at low level and needing to use more than just your spammable, I would be happy.

Muizer

SilverBride wrote: »

This excerpt was taken from the article below:

With that being said, we do recognize a lot of people want increased overland difficulty and the new world events (Bastion Nymics) that are instanced for up to 4 players in Necrom is one of our answers to that.

That is a rather contrived interpretation of "harder overland difficulty" and, although I cannot speak for others, quite probably the wrong one.

I do not think people are asking to bring the content of higher difficulty, such as is currently mostly instanced, into an overland setting. It's not like "I love veteran dungeons, if only I could do this kind of thing in overland".

I do think people find the current overland difficulty, the one encountered during questing and exploring overland not challenging enough. And I don't necessarily think people expect to fight to the death between quest markers or resource nodes, but neither should overland combat be like swatting flies: a nuisance.

Also from the perspective of bridging the gap between overland and instanced content difficulty, it's really not good if in overland you can basically completely ignore things like skill rotations, just spamming some aoe's without even slowing down.

Snamyap

Muizer wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

This excerpt was taken from the article below:

With that being said, we do recognize a lot of people want increased overland difficulty and the new world events (Bastion Nymics) that are instanced for up to 4 players in Necrom is one of our answers to that.

Also from the perspective of bridging the gap between overland and instanced content difficulty, it's really not good if in overland you can basically completely ignore things like skill rotations, just spamming some aoe's without even slowing down.

I don't necessarily want longer fights against damage sponges, but IMHO it would be good if blocking and interrupting was also meaningful for basic mobs. If for no other reason than to learn the mechanics.

I remember fighting that hunger WB on Vvardenfel once. Was before I learned of the Precognition trick. There was one other guy and I just couldn't get him to interrupt, had apparently no clue what it was.

The_Lex

SilverBride wrote: »

The_Lex wrote: »

Bastion Nymics are not overland content. They are instanced content designed for 3-4 people. They even look like dungeons.

ZoS said they are an overland event that is one of the answers to those wanting increased overland difficulty.

Oh I am well aware of what they said. This wouldn't be the first time ZOS said/intended for something to be "x" and it turned out to be "y."

They are not overland content. Farming the ichor from the Herald Seekers is overland (and can be easily solo'd). But the moment you enter an instanced zone that looks like a separate world and is designed for multiple players, it no longer becomes overland content. The instanced zones themselves are not even "overland" - they are somewhere else.

SilverBride

Bastion Nymics are overland events, such as Harrowstorms and Vents, but they don't address the complaints presented in this thread.

Snamyap

SilverBride wrote: »

Bastion Nymics are overland events, such as Harrowstorms and Vents, but they don't address the complaints presented in this thread.

I don't see them as overland content, no matter what the devs claim, but you are right that they don't address anything for anyone here.

Braffin

SilverBride wrote: »

Bastion Nymics are overland events, such as Harrowstorms and Vents, but they don't address the complaints presented in this thread.

No, bastion nymics are called overland events by zos while they indeed are instanced content (for up to 4 players) outside of actual overland maps. The prerequisite ichor farm is overland content tied to said nymics tho.