Overland Content Feedback Thread

Jammy420

Necrom was the perfect example of the right amount of difficulty balanced with accessibility.

Bosses were memorable
Mobs were easy
World bosses very difficult
Public dungeon bosses vary from not so hard to semi difficult.

This is the recipe that should be used going forward. It gives a nod toward the people who want a bit more difficulty, and it gives a nod toward the people who want casual gaming.

More like this please!

Jammy420

berunhieyes wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

Simple solution, probably already suggested a thousand times in this thread, sorry.

Crafted set:
(2) Increases incoming damage from monsters by 25%
(3) Decreases outgoing damage to monsters by 25%
(4) Increases both to 50%
(5) Increases both to 75%

This capability pretty much already exists in game. The same effects can be achieved by using crafted low-level gear, unslotting CPs, and if you're really serious, resetting attributes.

However, it's pretty clear that the people on this thread calling for harder overland aren't interested in this approach.

Why should we have to nerf ourselves, when the casual crowd refuses to buff themselves?

The solution is Necrom, all dlcs should be along these lines from now on.

Sarannah

Jammy420 wrote: »

Necrom was the perfect example of the right amount of difficulty balanced with accessibility.

Depends... in my opinion the main quest bosses had too much health. Though their mechanics were fine. Bastion nymic actually removed overland content for the sake of more difficult/group content, which is what dungeons are supposed to be there for. Not to mention, all those wandering bosses with too high health and a major aggro range, for me these were too hard to solo due to the add spawns(these things should not spawn adds, and should aggro like netches do(only when attacked)).

Jammy420 wrote: »

Bosses were memorable

The mechanics were fun, but they had too much health. As I'm a terrible DPS. Though I did do the story at level 30ish, so that could just be me.

Jammy420 wrote: »

Mobs were easy

Luckily yes!

Jammy420 wrote: »

World bosses very difficult

This is what I dislike, when the content is no longer current, noone will run these anymore. We can already see this with the walking nightmare world boss, practically noone does that one anymore. So difficulty does have a huge impact on gameplay. When Necrom is no longer current, it is going to be a huge pain to get these done.

Jammy420 wrote: »

Public dungeon bosses vary from not so hard to semi difficult.

Some public dungeon bosses were WAY over the top hard(too many stuns, and too many mob horde spawns). Not to mention unavoidable at some quest objectives, like for the new companions. Same with the public dungeon group event, with dozens of mobs(Gorne)... this is WAY over the top hard, but only because of stun after stun after stun(wasn't fun at all). These things are fine when the expansion is current, but when it is no longer current it is going to feel bad having to waste enormous amounts of time on these, just to get them done(to find help).

ZOS is making a huge mistake by making content more difficult, especially since in these cases it is NOT optional. All similar content should be on the same level, compare the original alliance zones with Necrom and it is atleast twice as difficult. Compare the older dungeons with DLC dungeons, and they are atleast four times as difficult. Compare the Necrom world bosses to the alliance zone world bosses, these are three/four times harder. This all just seems wrong. Personally I do not want a challenge, I just want to relax and experience the stories. Difficulty actually takes away from the story. Waiting at world bosses, public dungeon events, or public dungeon bosses for help to show up is NOT fun gameplay.

People say they want difficult content, but difficulty will only make content more tedious. Tedious will only cause fewer and fewer players to do that content. In the old zones players ignore every easy mob, if they were tedious they would ignore them just the same. They run through overland with a mob train, they run through delves with a mob train, they run through public dungeons with a mob train. They even do this in necrom already! Difficult content will only affect those who would actually engage in that content. And tedious content is that which even those asking for difficult content will ignore, like the wandering nightmare is a perfect example for. Most players are already ignoring that world boss, due to difficulty.

Jammy420 wrote: »

berunhieyes wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

Simple solution, probably already suggested a thousand times in this thread, sorry.

Crafted set:
(2) Increases incoming damage from monsters by 25%
(3) Decreases outgoing damage to monsters by 25%
(4) Increases both to 50%
(5) Increases both to 75%

This capability pretty much already exists in game. The same effects can be achieved by using crafted low-level gear, unslotting CPs, and if you're really serious, resetting attributes.

However, it's pretty clear that the people on this thread calling for harder overland aren't interested in this approach.

Why should we have to nerf ourselves, when the casual crowd refuses to buff themselves?

The solution is Necrom, all dlcs should be along these lines from now on.

I love necrom, but when it is no longer current content, some parts are going to feel like bad and terrible content because of the difficulty. Many parts of Necrom will just become a huge waste of time to find other players for help, as players ignore it all due to the content being too tedious(craglorn/harrowstorms). So no, new content should definitely not be like necrom!

The problem is the DPS gap: when in similar gear there is a 100k DPS difference(and major survival difference), this is going to impact content difficulty. If the worst players did 70k vs 110k instead of 10k vs 110k DPS, this would allow for ZOS to make more difficult content everyone could run and have fun in. Keep in mind, when ZOS releases things like oakensoul build or HA build, the ones wanting difficult content are often also the first to call for nerfs(because high DPS should take high skill according to them). While more viable high end builds would allow for more difficult content. ZOS can't make more difficult content without allowing the lower end of the DPS to also do high DPS. Therefor, Necrom's difficulty was a mistake in my opinion. As right now, some major parts of Necrom are just a DPS brag for the high end players. Should have closed the DPS gap first. (Note: And not everyone does overland on a DPS build)

PS: For those reading my post, I love necrom, but some parts were made over the top difficult for absolutely no reason. And while it is fine now, when Necrom is no longer current content, this will become a huge problem.
PPS: Have also noticed more and more bosses have multiple stuns, or spawn groups of adds/mechanics which keep stunning. This is NOT fun! (tedious)

SilverBride

Sarannah wrote: »

This is what I dislike, when the content is no longer current, noone will run these anymore. We can already see this with the walking nightmare world boss, practically noone does that one anymore. So difficulty does have a huge impact on gameplay. When Necrom is no longer current, it is going to be a huge pain to get these done.

It's already hard to find a group. I've been doing the daily World Boss quest every day and it takes a lot of begging to get enough players to run these.

The World Bosses are just way too difficult for the average player that makes up the bulk of the playerbase. The Bastion Nymic provides more challenging content for those who want that. Leave something, like the World Bosses, for the rest of us.

valenwood_vegan

SilverBride wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

This is what I dislike, when the content is no longer current, noone will run these anymore. We can already see this with the walking nightmare world boss, practically noone does that one anymore. So difficulty does have a huge impact on gameplay. When Necrom is no longer current, it is going to be a huge pain to get these done.

It's already hard to find a group. I've been doing the daily World Boss quest every day and it takes a lot of begging to get enough players to run these.

Have to agree. We're only what, two weeks into Necrom? And I find myself soloing most of the wb's already when I show up for the daily. Occasionally there is another player who I can help carry through them, and they often comment to me about how long they've been waiting for someone to help.

The bosses were a fun challenge yes, but I've killed them... now they're a pain... once I finish out the achievs and the motif, I for one won't be showing up to help anyone with them anymore. And this is the problem. It already happens in a lot of older content, and it's something ZoS needs to consider as harder overland content ages.

Scaling or optional increased difficulty needs to be looked at (EDIT: or better group finder support for overland activities... beyond LFG'ing in zone chat endlessly)... what's fun and challenging for a zerg showing up to try brand new content... or for one or a couple of experienced players... will quickly become an impossible roadblock for many others who come to the content later (outside of the occasional event when content picks up again). The experienced players and/or large groups at whom this content is aimed seem to quickly move on... back to dungeons / trials / whatever the new challenge is...

spartaxoxo

As a console user, I can't comment on the specifics of Necrom yet.

I'm excited to try and solo what I can on my main.

I'm not excited to take a new character through there.

Overall, one of the problems with forced difficulty is that many hate it, making it difficult to find groups. And even ones who like it might prefer different experiences with different characters or on different days.

This is why I was really, really hoping things were optional. Oh well. If this is how content will be from now, at least it will be more interesting on the character I use the most. My friend decided not to order Necrom at all though.

I am really glad that they kept the mobs easy and buffed the bosses up. It sounds like it keeps it from being tedious. I'm looking forward to an actually memorable boss fight.

Dreaders123

Jammy420 wrote: »

berunhieyes wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

Simple solution, probably already suggested a thousand times in this thread, sorry.

Crafted set:
(2) Increases incoming damage from monsters by 25%
(3) Decreases outgoing damage to monsters by 25%
(4) Increases both to 50%
(5) Increases both to 75%

This capability pretty much already exists in game. The same effects can be achieved by using crafted low-level gear, unslotting CPs, and if you're really serious, resetting attributes.

However, it's pretty clear that the people on this thread calling for harder overland aren't interested in this approach.

Why should we have to nerf ourselves, when the casual crowd refuses to buff themselves?

The solution is Necrom, all dlcs should be along these lines from now on.

The why is surely obvious? You want the content to be harder...for you. That's why.

So don't slot those CP's, then it will be. Don't craft your special gear. Then it will be. Don't take your Level 10 companion, then it will be.

Not everyone can buff themselves - I'll give you one perfect example. A new player (ie not an alt). We want to increase the player base right? More people for RND's and so on?

Braffin

Best solution would still be a seperate veteran overland instance, so nothing is taken away from anyone.

It's true that not everyone is able or willing to buff themselves, but it's also nonsense to demand of players to give up all the gear, CP and anything else they played for just to let them have fun with this game.

So each player may play this game in the difficulty he's comfortable with. Every other solution will fail.

DP99

Sarannah wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Necrom was the perfect example of the right amount of difficulty balanced with accessibility.

Depends... in my opinion the main quest bosses had too much health. Though their mechanics were fine. Bastion nymic actually removed overland content for the sake of more difficult/group content, which is what dungeons are supposed to be there for. Not to mention, all those wandering bosses with too high health and a major aggro range, for me these were too hard to solo due to the add spawns(these things should not spawn adds, and should aggro like netches do(only when attacked)).

Jammy420 wrote: »

Bosses were memorable

The mechanics were fun, but they had too much health. As I'm a terrible DPS. Though I did do the story at level 30ish, so that could just be me.

Jammy420 wrote: »

Mobs were easy

Luckily yes!

Jammy420 wrote: »

World bosses very difficult

This is what I dislike, when the content is no longer current, noone will run these anymore. We can already see this with the walking nightmare world boss, practically noone does that one anymore. So difficulty does have a huge impact on gameplay. When Necrom is no longer current, it is going to be a huge pain to get these done.

Jammy420 wrote: »

Public dungeon bosses vary from not so hard to semi difficult.

Some public dungeon bosses were WAY over the top hard(too many stuns, and too many mob horde spawns). Not to mention unavoidable at some quest objectives, like for the new companions. Same with the public dungeon group event, with dozens of mobs(Gorne)... this is WAY over the top hard, but only because of stun after stun after stun(wasn't fun at all). These things are fine when the expansion is current, but when it is no longer current it is going to feel bad having to waste enormous amounts of time on these, just to get them done(to find help).

ZOS is making a huge mistake by making content more difficult, especially since in these cases it is NOT optional. All similar content should be on the same level, compare the original alliance zones with Necrom and it is atleast twice as difficult. Compare the older dungeons with DLC dungeons, and they are atleast four times as difficult. Compare the Necrom world bosses to the alliance zone world bosses, these are three/four times harder. This all just seems wrong. Personally I do not want a challenge, I just want to relax and experience the stories. Difficulty actually takes away from the story. Waiting at world bosses, public dungeon events, or public dungeon bosses for help to show up is NOT fun gameplay.

People say they want difficult content, but difficulty will only make content more tedious. Tedious will only cause fewer and fewer players to do that content. In the old zones players ignore every easy mob, if they were tedious they would ignore them just the same. They run through overland with a mob train, they run through delves with a mob train, they run through public dungeons with a mob train. They even do this in necrom already! Difficult content will only affect those who would actually engage in that content. And tedious content is that which even those asking for difficult content will ignore, like the wandering nightmare is a perfect example for. Most players are already ignoring that world boss, due to difficulty.

Jammy420 wrote: »

berunhieyes wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

Simple solution, probably already suggested a thousand times in this thread, sorry.

Crafted set:
(2) Increases incoming damage from monsters by 25%
(3) Decreases outgoing damage to monsters by 25%
(4) Increases both to 50%
(5) Increases both to 75%

This capability pretty much already exists in game. The same effects can be achieved by using crafted low-level gear, unslotting CPs, and if you're really serious, resetting attributes.

However, it's pretty clear that the people on this thread calling for harder overland aren't interested in this approach.

Why should we have to nerf ourselves, when the casual crowd refuses to buff themselves?

The solution is Necrom, all dlcs should be along these lines from now on.

I love necrom, but when it is no longer current content, some parts are going to feel like bad and terrible content because of the difficulty. Many parts of Necrom will just become a huge waste of time to find other players for help, as players ignore it all due to the content being too tedious(craglorn/harrowstorms). So no, new content should definitely not be like necrom!

The problem is the DPS gap: when in similar gear there is a 100k DPS difference(and major survival difference), this is going to impact content difficulty. If the worst players did 70k vs 110k instead of 10k vs 110k DPS, this would allow for ZOS to make more difficult content everyone could run and have fun in. Keep in mind, when ZOS releases things like oakensoul build or HA build, the ones wanting difficult content are often also the first to call for nerfs(because high DPS should take high skill according to them). While more viable high end builds would allow for more difficult content. ZOS can't make more difficult content without allowing the lower end of the DPS to also do high DPS. Therefor, Necrom's difficulty was a mistake in my opinion. As right now, some major parts of Necrom are just a DPS brag for the high end players. Should have closed the DPS gap first. (Note: And not everyone does overland on a DPS build)

PS: For those reading my post, I love necrom, but some parts were made over the top difficult for absolutely no reason. And while it is fine now, when Necrom is no longer current content, this will become a huge problem.
PPS: Have also noticed more and more bosses have multiple stuns, or spawn groups of adds/mechanics which keep stunning. This is NOT fun! (tedious)

Agreed. Especially with the Public Dungeon bosses! In past zones, I've been able to solo the majority of PD bosses apart from the group ones that require a group, or there have been other players around for some of the more difficult ones that you can easily have people around to help. But, with Necrom, I did both Gorne and the Underweave, and I found that out of the two, Grone was ridiculously more difficult, while Underweave wasn't all that much in comparison.

I was able to defeat all of the Underweave bosses solo, and was fortunate enough to get in on a group of players in progress for the group one, and got all the achievements for that place.

Gorne on the other hand, I wasn't able to defeat the big snake boss with her adds, nor did I do the group one, because no one else was around to help.

berunhieyes

Jammy420 wrote: »

berunhieyes wrote: »

This capability pretty much already exists in game. The same effects can be achieved by using crafted low-level gear, unslotting CPs, and if you're really serious, resetting attributes.

However, it's pretty clear that the people on this thread calling for harder overland aren't interested in this approach.

Why should we have to nerf ourselves, when the casual crowd refuses to buff themselves?

The solution is Necrom, all dlcs should be along these lines from now on.

Almost by definition, the "casual crowd" will never grind dungeons/trials for days/weeks to for gear, and then spend more days/weeks farming mats and transmutes so they can have everything gold with the right trait, and then spend more days/weeks punching a dummy to perfect their rotation.

So far, ZOS has shown no inclination to change overland, so the only currently available way to scale the difficulty of content is for players to change their buiilds.

BasP

From what I've seen thus far, I think the difficulty of Necrom's overland is fine as it is and I wouldn't like to see it nerfed. There does seem to be a great disparity between the skill level of the playerbase though, so I suppose an optional Veteran Overland option would ultimately be a most welcome addition to the game. In that case I imagine that the default difficulty of the Public Dungeons, World Bosses and Bastion Nymics could be lower than it currently is, while the Veteran option would make them a bit more difficult. But if that won't happen, my vote goes to keeping the difficulty the same for both Necrom and future content.

For reference, when Necrom was released I completed the entire Gorne Public Dungeon on a level 6-7 Arcanist with random gear when I was doing Sharp's recruitment quest (I had allocated my CP beforehand though). The group boss was a bit tougher than I expected, but that only made finishing it on the first try more satisfying. Personally I prefer this over the easy Public Dungeons in the base game.

This weekend I returned to Necrom with my level 50 Arcanist, did the other Public Dungeon (which was easy with a leveled character) and have fought all of the World Bosses at least once. It seems that with a properly geared character all World Bosses can be soloed, I've done a few myself, so I see no need to reduce their difficulty as they're meant to be done multiple players anyways. Having zero challenging content in the DLC overland zones would be pretty boring.

Edit: Having read the post again I realized I perhaps sound a bit elitist, and I do hope that ZOS will ever implement something like a Veteran Overland option so that all players can experience the content in the way they like. It'd be the best solution for all.

wolfie1.0.

Jammy420 wrote: »

berunhieyes wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

Simple solution, probably already suggested a thousand times in this thread, sorry.

Crafted set:
(2) Increases incoming damage from monsters by 25%
(3) Decreases outgoing damage to monsters by 25%
(4) Increases both to 50%
(5) Increases both to 75%

This capability pretty much already exists in game. The same effects can be achieved by using crafted low-level gear, unslotting CPs, and if you're really serious, resetting attributes.

However, it's pretty clear that the people on this thread calling for harder overland aren't interested in this approach.

Why should we have to nerf ourselves, when the casual crowd refuses to buff themselves?

The solution is Necrom, all dlcs should be along these lines from now on.

Why? Because those whom you call casuals make up the bulk of the eso playerbase. Look I am fine with making things a tad difficult but honestly overland ahould be able to be completed at a reasonable level especially if tied to a daily repeatable quest. Otherwise it's not going to go over well when the next chapter comes around.

Bluxx

overland content feels way to easy. i would like as many people have suggested a toggle for vet and normal difficulty in overland. for me it feels very boring that the "World Destroyer" that you have been chased through 2 DLC's, dies in like 2 light attacks. for me atm. is HM Dungeon and Trifecta Trial content the only way to go sadly.

ShalidorsHeir

I mean i wasnt in here for a while since the lunacy of this discusssion has grown beyond somehting i dont even have the words to describe. However, keep in one thing in mind:

Casuals are NOT the majority of ESO player base, they are not even close. Look in basically all PvP content and dungeons/trials. Its just that those players do not see anything else in the places they seem to stuck 24/7. Its just the majority of forum warriors in here since they are busy phrasing garbo comments rather than playing the game to get an idea of what people are actually talking about. It seems its more important to them to get attention and say no no no and refuse to aggree to solutions that everyone would be happy with - rather than listen to arguments. And the only made up fake argument provided by them is the "i am part of the self-claimed casual majority so i am right".

Have a wonderful afternoon

ShalidorsHeir

Braffin wrote: »

Best solution would still be a seperate veteran overland instance, so nothing is taken away from anyone.

It's true that not everyone is able or willing to buff themselves, but it's also nonsense to demand of players to give up all the gear, CP and anything else they played for just to let them have fun with this game.

So each player may play this game in the difficulty he's comfortable with. Every other solution will fail.

i mentioned that a year ago ... [snip] Its a riddle to me. As if an optional vet overland content would have any (negative or at all) effect on casual players ... but they still claim that this will destroy the whole game or something - they are very inconsistent at this point about how this would be that case ... well well

[edited for baiting]

Braffin

ShalidorsHeir wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Best solution would still be a seperate veteran overland instance, so nothing is taken away from anyone.

It's true that not everyone is able or willing to buff themselves, but it's also nonsense to demand of players to give up all the gear, CP and anything else they played for just to let them have fun with this game.

So each player may play this game in the difficulty he's comfortable with. Every other solution will fail.

i mentioned that a year ago ... [snip] Its a riddle to me. As if an optional vet overland content would have any (negative or at all) effect on casual players ... but they still claim that this will destroy the whole game or something - they are very inconsistent at this point about how this would be that case ... well well

Totally agree here.

It seems not everyone is interested in a solution which would benefit all players, but to enforce their personal ideologies on everyone out of envy or whatever.

[edited to remove quote]

TaSheen

I'm not at all unhappy if they make optional harder content - never have been. I'm just not real sure ZOS will either do optional, or do it in a way that isn't very accessible.

For instance - Bastion Nymics are optional harder content, and that's fine - until one is "dead by someone else's seeker combat" while trying to dig antiquities or discover wayshrines....

In any case I'm perfectly happy for y'all to get whatever it is you want.

Vhozek

Have we still not figured out a solution? I get the feeling the devs don't completely understand what's being requested, especially after seeing the supposed response to Josh Strife's video from the community manager stating "we know that you think the early game is quite easy, if you would like to do some late game difficult stuff, let me know and we'll try and get that set up for you".

I don't really think it's about wanting to get to the difficult stuff right away or looking forward to the late game, but rather, playing through the early game as if you were ACTUALLY a low level character. I don't think many people want to struggle or want noobies to struggle, it's just that low level does NOT feel like low level and it's a soulless experience of what an MMO, or even just a leveling game is all about.

One thing I've noticed is that if you fight a warrior/assasin and a mage mob together, the mage seems to carry the entire fight. In most cases, the mage ALONE does a decent job. I think the main issue here is with the warrior or assassin mobs, they just do not attack the player. They do 0 damage.

I encourage you all to stand in front or a warrior of assassin mob for a few seconds and pay attention to the attack rate + damage output those mobs do. The most simplest of sustain absolutely make those mobs useless, pointless, null. Hell, you don't even need to sustain, you just left click a couple of times and it's over. The worst part is that they fall to their deaths looking extra pathetic on top of their supposed efforts to damage you. It's rarely engaging, it's too easy.

Vhozek

This capability pretty much already exists in game. The same effects can be achieved by using crafted low-level gear, unslotting CPs, and if you're really serious, resetting attributes.

However, it's pretty clear that the people on this thread calling for harder overland aren't interested in this approach.

This simply does not work. People need to stop providing this as a solution. Burry it in the most wretched of graves. It does NOT work. You're better off slotting all your Champion Points and farming mobs than sit there and wait for 5 incoming damage every 10 seconds.

Vhozek

This game needs leveled areas within each zone, providing a bit of a challenge without making the entire zone anti noob. I even think it needs to remove ALL HP regen completely in overland so you don't get to just fight the next mob at full HP.

Here's the problem too:
Players have HP regen, potions, Champion Points, full set of armor coming out of the tutorial (heavy if you skip), healing staff, sustain skills, defense skills, companions, summoned pets, food, drink, no cooldowns on skills, shield, insanely faster attack rate than mobs, other players, poison.
AND A WHOLE ARMY OF PEOPLE DEFENDING THEM IN THE FORUMS.
Yet they STILL claim the game CANNOT be even a tiny bit harder because "what about the noobies?".
Bro, have you ever stopped to think that maybe the reason there's actually little to no real NEW players is because the game is simply TOO EASY?

E V E R Y single content creator, internal or external to ESO that I have ever seen myself talk about this topic says it is too easy.
This is no longer an issue of "IF" it's an issue of "why hasn't this been done already? It's been AGES and everybody and their twitch chat makes fun of this game for being too easy and looking ugly" (graphics topic for another time, though it's not that serious).
It's time, it's overdue. We needed this since the release of One Tamriel. Was it too difficult before? Maybe, but you guys took it from 100 to 0. ZERO, not 50/50, not 40/60, Z E R O/100

And the game still doesn't have freakin tooltips to tell you what even "healing taken" and "direct damage" even mean. Yet it's supposedly "noob friendly". I've been playing nearly since release and I still don't know what these things mean but somehow I'm a hardcore player for wanting the game to not feel braindead. Please, bro, there's a freaking guy sitting in management telling the devs "ignore forums except when they come up with a good monetizing idea and sculpt up those terrain for the new expansion map".
I've seen it with my own eyes, I'm basically the guy that came up with the idea for companions and I've seen the devs (or whoever) interact with us before very closely about some other monetization idea like in 2017. They implemented these things like 8 months afterwards.

No but I'M the one that's supposed to gimp my experience with the game in order to get a smidge of basic video game logic into my session. I'm the one that needs to run around naked, like a complete idiot.

Vhozek

Sarannah wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Necrom was the perfect example of the right amount of difficulty balanced with accessibility.

Depends... in my opinion the main quest bosses had too much health. Though their mechanics were fine. Bastion nymic actually removed overland content for the sake of more difficult/group content, which is what dungeons are supposed to be there for. Not to mention, all those wandering bosses with too high health and a major aggro range, for me these were too hard to solo due to the add spawns(these things should not spawn adds, and should aggro like netches do(only when attacked)).

Jammy420 wrote: »

Bosses were memorable

The mechanics were fun, but they had too much health. As I'm a terrible DPS. Though I did do the story at level 30ish, so that could just be me.

Jammy420 wrote: »

Mobs were easy

Luckily yes!

Jammy420 wrote: »

World bosses very difficult

This is what I dislike, when the content is no longer current, noone will run these anymore. We can already see this with the walking nightmare world boss, practically noone does that one anymore. So difficulty does have a huge impact on gameplay. When Necrom is no longer current, it is going to be a huge pain to get these done.

Jammy420 wrote: »

Public dungeon bosses vary from not so hard to semi difficult.

Some public dungeon bosses were WAY over the top hard(too many stuns, and too many mob horde spawns). Not to mention unavoidable at some quest objectives, like for the new companions. Same with the public dungeon group event, with dozens of mobs(Gorne)... this is WAY over the top hard, but only because of stun after stun after stun(wasn't fun at all). These things are fine when the expansion is current, but when it is no longer current it is going to feel bad having to waste enormous amounts of time on these, just to get them done(to find help).

ZOS is making a huge mistake by making content more difficult, especially since in these cases it is NOT optional. All similar content should be on the same level, compare the original alliance zones with Necrom and it is atleast twice as difficult. Compare the older dungeons with DLC dungeons, and they are atleast four times as difficult. Compare the Necrom world bosses to the alliance zone world bosses, these are three/four times harder. This all just seems wrong. Personally I do not want a challenge, I just want to relax and experience the stories. Difficulty actually takes away from the story. Waiting at world bosses, public dungeon events, or public dungeon bosses for help to show up is NOT fun gameplay.

People say they want difficult content, but difficulty will only make content more tedious. Tedious will only cause fewer and fewer players to do that content. In the old zones players ignore every easy mob, if they were tedious they would ignore them just the same. They run through overland with a mob train, they run through delves with a mob train, they run through public dungeons with a mob train. They even do this in necrom already! Difficult content will only affect those who would actually engage in that content. And tedious content is that which even those asking for difficult content will ignore, like the wandering nightmare is a perfect example for. Most players are already ignoring that world boss, due to difficulty.

Jammy420 wrote: »

berunhieyes wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

Simple solution, probably already suggested a thousand times in this thread, sorry.

Crafted set:
(2) Increases incoming damage from monsters by 25%
(3) Decreases outgoing damage to monsters by 25%
(4) Increases both to 50%
(5) Increases both to 75%

This capability pretty much already exists in game. The same effects can be achieved by using crafted low-level gear, unslotting CPs, and if you're really serious, resetting attributes.

However, it's pretty clear that the people on this thread calling for harder overland aren't interested in this approach.

Why should we have to nerf ourselves, when the casual crowd refuses to buff themselves?

The solution is Necrom, all dlcs should be along these lines from now on.

I love necrom, but when it is no longer current content, some parts are going to feel like bad and terrible content because of the difficulty. Many parts of Necrom will just become a huge waste of time to find other players for help, as players ignore it all due to the content being too tedious(craglorn/harrowstorms). So no, new content should definitely not be like necrom!

The problem is the DPS gap: when in similar gear there is a 100k DPS difference(and major survival difference), this is going to impact content difficulty. If the worst players did 70k vs 110k instead of 10k vs 110k DPS, this would allow for ZOS to make more difficult content everyone could run and have fun in. Keep in mind, when ZOS releases things like oakensoul build or HA build, the ones wanting difficult content are often also the first to call for nerfs(because high DPS should take high skill according to them). While more viable high end builds would allow for more difficult content. ZOS can't make more difficult content without allowing the lower end of the DPS to also do high DPS. Therefor, Necrom's difficulty was a mistake in my opinion. As right now, some major parts of Necrom are just a DPS brag for the high end players. Should have closed the DPS gap first. (Note: And not everyone does overland on a DPS build)

PS: For those reading my post, I love necrom, but some parts were made over the top difficult for absolutely no reason. And while it is fine now, when Necrom is no longer current content, this will become a huge problem.
PPS: Have also noticed more and more bosses have multiple stuns, or spawn groups of adds/mechanics which keep stunning. This is NOT fun! (tedious)

I don't know why people defend the most possible noobiest of noobs you can imagine in your head.
Tedious tedious, everything is tedious if it's not braindead. That's just simply not true. Dark Souls is so tedious that's why nobody plays it. FromSoftware is in absolute shambles, how can they ever recover?

Just look at how many other MMOs are alive and well right now that are more "tedious" than ESO. New World had very good reception when it came to the overland difficulty and a lot of players even wanted it to be more difficult, like Darksouls even. That game only suffers from its systems, not the mob difficulty and I believe ESO can strike a balance somewhere even easier than New World. ESO just needs to fix its combat to be the most absolutely perfect game it can be. Story alone won't carry the game when people are mainly attracted to combat. That's just the truth of how things work. Players want engaging combat, whether because the game has unique combat mechanics or it's not a sleep fest. And AAALLL you need to do, really, is to allow mobs to deal more damage to the player. Don't matter if it's faster or at the same rate so long as it's more. It's so so so simple.

Noobies already have the work cut out for them. You CANNOT make a noobie player get good no matter how hard you try to make the game simpler. That's up to them to figure out on their own and you're not helping when you just cater to their comfort zone. It... it doesn't even take much skill to be good enough at the game to do 98% of the content. I don't get it. Who are these noobies dying all over Tamriel to the freaking wind blowing their direction?

Braffin

Vhozek wrote: »

Sarannah wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Necrom was the perfect example of the right amount of difficulty balanced with accessibility.

Depends... in my opinion the main quest bosses had too much health. Though their mechanics were fine. Bastion nymic actually removed overland content for the sake of more difficult/group content, which is what dungeons are supposed to be there for. Not to mention, all those wandering bosses with too high health and a major aggro range, for me these were too hard to solo due to the add spawns(these things should not spawn adds, and should aggro like netches do(only when attacked)).

Jammy420 wrote: »

Bosses were memorable

The mechanics were fun, but they had too much health. As I'm a terrible DPS. Though I did do the story at level 30ish, so that could just be me.

Jammy420 wrote: »

Mobs were easy

Luckily yes!

Jammy420 wrote: »

World bosses very difficult

This is what I dislike, when the content is no longer current, noone will run these anymore. We can already see this with the walking nightmare world boss, practically noone does that one anymore. So difficulty does have a huge impact on gameplay. When Necrom is no longer current, it is going to be a huge pain to get these done.

Jammy420 wrote: »

Public dungeon bosses vary from not so hard to semi difficult.

Some public dungeon bosses were WAY over the top hard(too many stuns, and too many mob horde spawns). Not to mention unavoidable at some quest objectives, like for the new companions. Same with the public dungeon group event, with dozens of mobs(Gorne)... this is WAY over the top hard, but only because of stun after stun after stun(wasn't fun at all). These things are fine when the expansion is current, but when it is no longer current it is going to feel bad having to waste enormous amounts of time on these, just to get them done(to find help).

ZOS is making a huge mistake by making content more difficult, especially since in these cases it is NOT optional. All similar content should be on the same level, compare the original alliance zones with Necrom and it is atleast twice as difficult. Compare the older dungeons with DLC dungeons, and they are atleast four times as difficult. Compare the Necrom world bosses to the alliance zone world bosses, these are three/four times harder. This all just seems wrong. Personally I do not want a challenge, I just want to relax and experience the stories. Difficulty actually takes away from the story. Waiting at world bosses, public dungeon events, or public dungeon bosses for help to show up is NOT fun gameplay.

People say they want difficult content, but difficulty will only make content more tedious. Tedious will only cause fewer and fewer players to do that content. In the old zones players ignore every easy mob, if they were tedious they would ignore them just the same. They run through overland with a mob train, they run through delves with a mob train, they run through public dungeons with a mob train. They even do this in necrom already! Difficult content will only affect those who would actually engage in that content. And tedious content is that which even those asking for difficult content will ignore, like the wandering nightmare is a perfect example for. Most players are already ignoring that world boss, due to difficulty.

Jammy420 wrote: »

berunhieyes wrote: »

mocap wrote: »

Simple solution, probably already suggested a thousand times in this thread, sorry.

Crafted set:
(2) Increases incoming damage from monsters by 25%
(3) Decreases outgoing damage to monsters by 25%
(4) Increases both to 50%
(5) Increases both to 75%

This capability pretty much already exists in game. The same effects can be achieved by using crafted low-level gear, unslotting CPs, and if you're really serious, resetting attributes.

However, it's pretty clear that the people on this thread calling for harder overland aren't interested in this approach.

Why should we have to nerf ourselves, when the casual crowd refuses to buff themselves?

The solution is Necrom, all dlcs should be along these lines from now on.

I love necrom, but when it is no longer current content, some parts are going to feel like bad and terrible content because of the difficulty. Many parts of Necrom will just become a huge waste of time to find other players for help, as players ignore it all due to the content being too tedious(craglorn/harrowstorms). So no, new content should definitely not be like necrom!

The problem is the DPS gap: when in similar gear there is a 100k DPS difference(and major survival difference), this is going to impact content difficulty. If the worst players did 70k vs 110k instead of 10k vs 110k DPS, this would allow for ZOS to make more difficult content everyone could run and have fun in. Keep in mind, when ZOS releases things like oakensoul build or HA build, the ones wanting difficult content are often also the first to call for nerfs(because high DPS should take high skill according to them). While more viable high end builds would allow for more difficult content. ZOS can't make more difficult content without allowing the lower end of the DPS to also do high DPS. Therefor, Necrom's difficulty was a mistake in my opinion. As right now, some major parts of Necrom are just a DPS brag for the high end players. Should have closed the DPS gap first. (Note: And not everyone does overland on a DPS build)

PS: For those reading my post, I love necrom, but some parts were made over the top difficult for absolutely no reason. And while it is fine now, when Necrom is no longer current content, this will become a huge problem.
PPS: Have also noticed more and more bosses have multiple stuns, or spawn groups of adds/mechanics which keep stunning. This is NOT fun! (tedious)

Noobies already have the work cut out for them. You CANNOT make a noobie player get good no matter how hard you try to make the game simpler. That's up to them to figure out on their own and you're not helping when you just cater to their comfort zone. It... it doesn't even take much skill to be good enough at the game to do 98% of the content. I don't get it. Who are these noobies dying all over Tamriel to the freaking wind blowing their direction?

The very same noobies (nice wording btw) which are hopping from red circle to red circle since launch of the game, still angry you can't open console to exploit through this game like skyrim.

They are well hidden indeed, but watch out for strawmen and you'll finally find them.

Kendaric

Vhozek wrote: »

I don't know why people defend the most possible noobiest of noobs you can imagine in your head.
Tedious tedious, everything is tedious if it's not braindead. That's just simply not true. Dark Souls is so tedious that's why nobody plays it. FromSoftware is in absolute shambles, how can they ever recover?

There's a reason not everyone like Dark Souls or it's clones. The only Souls-like I've given a try (though not finished it) was the Star Wars one and that only on the easiest difficulty.
I don't enjoy difficult content and yes, I played Skyrim on the lowest difficulty setting (and even then I modded it to make certain fights easier).

Vhozek wrote: »

Just look at how many other MMOs are alive and well right now that are more "tedious" than ESO. New World had very good reception when it came to the overland difficulty and a lot of players even wanted it to be more difficult, like Darksouls even. That game only suffers from its systems, not the mob difficulty and I believe ESO can strike a balance somewhere even easier than New World. ESO just needs to fix its combat to be the most absolutely perfect game it can be. Story alone won't carry the game when people are mainly attracted to combat. That's just the truth of how things work. Players want engaging combat, whether because the game has unique combat mechanics or it's not a sleep fest. And AAALLL you need to do, really, is to allow mobs to deal more damage to the player. Don't matter if it's faster or at the same rate so long as it's more. It's so so so simple.

New World, like ESO, has very predictable combat or has least that was the case when I still played. I played New World for the crafting system and the setting, certainly not for the combat.
ESO is in a similiar place in that regard, I definitely don't play ESO for it's combat. I go out of my way actually to avoid combat in ESO on most of my characters and you can say I play it despite it's combat. I'm interested in the story, lore and the world (and of course housing, can never have enough houses). I don't do dungeons except when I'm certain I can solo them with my companion ( which means Fungal Grotto 1 and Spindleclutch 1 ), trials or PvP.
Granted, this is partly related to my health issues but even before I had those, I stayed away from that sort of content.

Vhozek wrote: »

Noobies already have the work cut out for them. You CANNOT make a noobie player get good no matter how hard you try to make the game simpler. That's up to them to figure out on their own and you're not helping when you just cater to their comfort zone. It... it doesn't even take much skill to be good enough at the game to do 98% of the content. I don't get it. Who are these noobies dying all over Tamriel to the freaking wind blowing their direction?

Not all newbies (or players in general) have the desire to get good. They may be perfectly fine with the game as is.

Now... do I want a veteran overland? No, I don't as I'm happy with the difficulty.

Do I support an optional veteran overland or any sort of debuff? Sure, as long as they are optional.

Braffin

Kendaric wrote: »

Do I support an optionalveteran overland or any sort of debuff? Sure, as long as they are optional.

Nothing else was ever asked for on all the 171 sites of this thread: an optional veteran overland.

In the end we others around here want the same as you: Enjoy this game at our own pace.

On a side note: was that star wars game fallen order by chance? A great game indeed.

Kendaric

Braffin wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Do I support an optionalveteran overland or any sort of debuff? Sure, as long as they are optional.

Nothing else was ever asked for on all the 171 sites of this thread: an optional veteran overland.

In the end we others around here want the same as you: Enjoy this game at our own pace.

On a side note: was that star wars game fallen order by chance? A great game indeed.

Yes, it was Fallen Order. It's indeed a great game but far too difficult for me (managed up to Dathomir).

There are actually quite a few people who want(ed) a mandatory increase in difficulty. That may have changed, but I'm not going to search through a 171 page thread

Anyway... as I said in the other thread, there are certain critters I'd like to see buffed. Giants, mammoths, trolls/ogres and bears could definitely use a buff (even for someone like me ). Especially the giants should be akin to public dungeon champions/bosses, it would only be fitting with the lore and they can be easily avoided. Same for mammoths...

colossalvoids

BlueRaven wrote: »

KarlosCV wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

people would likely rage quit out of frustration

A crucial point. Many would certainly be frustrated and quit if the overland content contained some challenge.

But how many TES fans, coming from Oblivion/Skyrim and thirsty for more Elder Scrolls, tried ESO over the years, realized the overland is mostly sightseeing and social affair instead of a traditional RPG, and quit? Players like me? Considering how often this topic pops up we're certainly not a tiny group.

I don't envy the developer's job. You can't accommodate both types of fandom. Or can you? Is there a way to make two separate servers - "RPG" and "social"? I'm reading Blizzard is doing this with WoW, could it happen with ESO?

Skyrim had super easy final boss fights.

By the time I get to the sovengard fight, for example, all it took was a single arrow shot or two to win. I usually had my weapon so maxed out at that point that I was one or two shoting all dragons. Any and all targets I was doing ludicrous damage to. (Thanks to the endless crafting power up rotation.) No mods actually needed.

Here is a guide to give you the general idea;

https://youtu.be/zuwIg5uSLq0

Just like in eso, I can always make my character weaker to make the bosses less of a push over.

Just like in Skyrim, the fact that i am fighting with gear and talents that makes the boss fight basically meaningless was my decision.

I don’t understand players with golded out bis slot gear and perfect builds wondering why things die so quickly.

My guess would be that almost no one really means tes difficulty in context of exploiting crafting system to it's maximum. You surely could do anything you want and what's possible in sp but equivalent to a crafting loop of alch>ench wouldn't be a maxed golded out player, but someone sniping vAS from out of arena bonds.

Those things in Beth sp titles are probably partially to blame for some people's perception of what's difficulty/balance is and how to combat/reinforce it.

ShalidorsHeir

The hell is that garbo comment with the skyrim video??? Skyrim is a single player game where you can choose out of 6 difficulty modes + mods. So no matter of how you enhance your gear to max, boss fights could always have been as difficult / immersive as you wanted them to be while maintaining the feeling of charcater progression. And thats one of the reason why skyrim succeeded. In this thread we are trying to phrase a solution like this for ESO since its more complex. No matter what the point was but the guy has proven the opposite

Braffin

Kendaric wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Do I support an optionalveteran overland or any sort of debuff? Sure, as long as they are optional.

Nothing else was ever asked for on all the 171 sites of this thread: an optional veteran overland.

In the end we others around here want the same as you: Enjoy this game at our own pace.

On a side note: was that star wars game fallen order by chance? A great game indeed.

Yes, it was Fallen Order. It's indeed a great game but far too difficult for me (managed up to Dathomir).

There are actually quite a few people who want(ed) a mandatory increase in difficulty. That may have changed, but I'm not going to search through a 171 page thread

Anyway... as I said in the other thread, there are certain critters I'd like to see buffed. Giants, mammoths, trolls/ogres and bears could definitely use a buff (even for someone like me ). Especially the giants should be akin to public dungeon champions/bosses, it would only be fitting with the lore and they can be easily avoided. Same for mammoths...

Yeah, me neither. Especially as 150 pages are written by 5 people agitating against options

Fallen order is a singleplayer game, so you could try this:

https://www.gamesradar.com/star-wars-jedi-fallen-order-cheats/

And no, I don't used it but of course sweatlorded through it. Twice

Braffin

ShalidorsHeir wrote: »

The hell is that garbo comment with the skyrim video??? Skyrim is a single player game where you can choose out of 6 difficulty modes + mods. So no matter of how you enhance your gear to max, boss fights could always have been as difficult / immersive as you wanted them to be while maintaining the feeling of charcater progression. And thats one of the reason why skyrim succeeded. In this thread we are trying to phrase a solution like this for ESO since its more complex. No matter what the point was but the guy has proven the opposite

That one is coming directly from the "general playerbase" my elitist comrade

Kendaric

ShalidorsHeir wrote: »

The hell is that garbo comment with the skyrim video??? Skyrim is a single player game where you can choose out of 6 difficulty modes + mods. So no matter of how you enhance your gear to max, boss fights could always have been as difficult / immersive as you wanted them to be while maintaining the feeling of charcater progression. And thats one of the reason why skyrim succeeded. In this thread we are trying to phrase a solution like this for ESO since its more complex. No matter what the point was but the guy has proven the opposite

BlueRaven wrote: »

I don’t understand players with golded out bis slot gear and perfect builds wondering why things die so quickly.

That's his main point and he isn't wrong.

It's the same as with nearly every other MMORPG, overland/story content is easy and for those who want a challenge dungeons/raids or PvP exist.
The only MMORPG I know of that has adjustable difficulty for world content is LotRO and I'm not sure how they handle it as I haven't played that in a while.

An additional part of the problem in ESO is the the extreme bolster low level characters receive and of course CP.