Overland Content Feedback Thread

CameraBeardThePirate

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@CameraBeardThePirate This was the last full statement on this issue and there hasn't been a change. The team is aware and constantly talking about ways to address this. As some others also stated, Rich did expand on this at our community meet-up in Vegas, but the core message was the same. However, we'll add the recording at some point in the future. That way, everyone can get access to that as well.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, as many of you have noted already from Rich's interview, there are no current plans for changing the structure of overland content. It is something we will continue to look at, so constructive feedback is always appreciated.

[...]

IKYMI: Rich's Quote on Overland Content
"That's a difficult one because difficulty is definitely subjective. We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points. Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms. I also look back and remember we had harder Overland content. We had Cadwell Silver, we had Cadwell Gold, and players really didn't like it. It was too hard for them, and when we did One Tamriel, we ripped all that out based on player feedback. Like, nobody did it. So it's a challenging subject and a difficult question to answer. All I can really say is we're definitely looking at it, but we don't have any major changes planned for the Overland difficulty."

Thanks @ZOS_Kevin. Admittedly, I didn't see that April comment because of the amount of pages, I apologize for the ping - just please be sure to keep this topic in mind. Overland Content is something that impacts every player and the ease of the content is pretty much the only thing keeping a lot of players from experiencing the lore.

ZOS_Kevin

No worries @CameraBeardThePirate. Totally get it and understand why this is an important topic. The thing to remember is this is a change that will impact every player, like you noted. So there is a ton of conversation and plotting out of potential issues that can come from a change to overland. Simply put, it isn't like just changing a damage or health slider. But the team is aware and have discussions regularly.

Marcus684

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@CameraBeardThePirate This was the last full statement on this issue and there hasn't been a change. The team is aware and constantly talking about ways to address this. As some others also stated, Rich did expand on this at our community meet-up in Vegas, but the core message was the same. However, we'll add the recording at some point in the future. That way, everyone can get access to that as well.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, as many of you have noted already from Rich's interview, there are no current plans for changing the structure of overland content. It is something we will continue to look at, so constructive feedback is always appreciated.

[...]

IKYMI: Rich's Quote on Overland Content
"That's a difficult one because difficulty is definitely subjective. We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points. Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms. I also look back and remember we had harder Overland content. We had Cadwell Silver, we had Cadwell Gold, and players really didn't like it. It was too hard for them, and when we did One Tamriel, we ripped all that out based on player feedback. Like, nobody did it. So it's a challenging subject and a difficult question to answer. All I can really say is we're definitely looking at it, but we don't have any major changes planned for the Overland difficulty."

Thanks @ZOS_Kevin. Admittedly, I didn't see that April comment because of the amount of pages, I apologize for the ping - just please be sure to keep this topic in mind. Overland Content is something that impacts every player and the ease of the content is pretty much the only thing keeping a lot of players from experiencing the lore.

@CameraBeardThePirate I'm curious about why you think the ease of combat is preventing people from experiencing game lore. I'd think combat would be more of a distraction from it. My apologies if this was explained in one of the previous 172 pages but I am definitely not digging through that pile.

CameraBeardThePirate

Marcus684 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@CameraBeardThePirate This was the last full statement on this issue and there hasn't been a change. The team is aware and constantly talking about ways to address this. As some others also stated, Rich did expand on this at our community meet-up in Vegas, but the core message was the same. However, we'll add the recording at some point in the future. That way, everyone can get access to that as well.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, as many of you have noted already from Rich's interview, there are no current plans for changing the structure of overland content. It is something we will continue to look at, so constructive feedback is always appreciated.

[...]

IKYMI: Rich's Quote on Overland Content
"That's a difficult one because difficulty is definitely subjective. We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points. Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms. I also look back and remember we had harder Overland content. We had Cadwell Silver, we had Cadwell Gold, and players really didn't like it. It was too hard for them, and when we did One Tamriel, we ripped all that out based on player feedback. Like, nobody did it. So it's a challenging subject and a difficult question to answer. All I can really say is we're definitely looking at it, but we don't have any major changes planned for the Overland difficulty."

Thanks @ZOS_Kevin. Admittedly, I didn't see that April comment because of the amount of pages, I apologize for the ping - just please be sure to keep this topic in mind. Overland Content is something that impacts every player and the ease of the content is pretty much the only thing keeping a lot of players from experiencing the lore.

@CameraBeardThePirate I'm curious about why you think the ease of combat is preventing people from experiencing game lore. I'd think combat would be more of a distraction from it. My apologies if this was explained in one of the previous 172 pages but I am definitely not digging through that pile.

Because, simply put, Overland content is far too boring for a lot of people to actually bother completing the quests. Even if the lore is cool, I don't want to spend 20 minutes left clicking adds once or twice each in between the dialogue. I'd much rather be engaged with the combat in between the story beats.

Take Maelstrom Arena or Vateshran Arena for example. The mobs there will kill you fairly quickly if you're not actively defending. It's a lot more engaging as a result, you can't turn your brain off and face roll everything. In a similar vein, I love soloing dungeons - I can actually enjoy the dungeon storylines at a good pace and be engaged with the combat. They feel far more epic and grandiose.

Quests are boring if the combat in between dialogue moments are boring. When the 'big bad' dies from a couple abilities, the whole story just feels kinda... meh.

Edit: and just to be clear, I'm not suggesting all Overland content should be as hard as soloing a dungeon, but I think the solo arenas and solo (normal) dungeons can provide a good litmus for how the more challenging fights in questlines should feel.

Kendaric

Because, simply put, Overland content is far too boring for a lot of people to actually bother completing the quests. Even if the lore is cool, I don't want to spend 20 minutes left clicking adds once or twice each in between the dialogue. I'd much rather be engaged with the combat in between the story beats.

Take Maelstrom Arena or Vateshran Arena for example. The mobs there will kill you fairly quickly if you're not actively defending. It's a lot more engaging as a result, you can't turn your brain off and face roll everything. In a similar vein, I love soloing dungeons - I can actually enjoy the dungeon storylines at a good pace and be engaged with the combat.

Quests are boring if the combat in between dialogue moments are boring. When the 'big bad' dies from a couple abilities, the whole story just feels kinda... meh

If overland would get remotely as difficult as a solo arena, I couldn't play anymore unless it would be entirely optional. I simply don't have the reflexes for that, not to mention that it would mean a lot of stress.

I already have an extremely hard time doing public dungeons, apart from the base game ones.

And no, it's not a simple "git gud" issue.

Marcus684

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Marcus684 wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

@CameraBeardThePirate This was the last full statement on this issue and there hasn't been a change. The team is aware and constantly talking about ways to address this. As some others also stated, Rich did expand on this at our community meet-up in Vegas, but the core message was the same. However, we'll add the recording at some point in the future. That way, everyone can get access to that as well.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, as many of you have noted already from Rich's interview, there are no current plans for changing the structure of overland content. It is something we will continue to look at, so constructive feedback is always appreciated.

[...]

IKYMI: Rich's Quote on Overland Content
"That's a difficult one because difficulty is definitely subjective. We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points. Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms. I also look back and remember we had harder Overland content. We had Cadwell Silver, we had Cadwell Gold, and players really didn't like it. It was too hard for them, and when we did One Tamriel, we ripped all that out based on player feedback. Like, nobody did it. So it's a challenging subject and a difficult question to answer. All I can really say is we're definitely looking at it, but we don't have any major changes planned for the Overland difficulty."

Thanks @ZOS_Kevin. Admittedly, I didn't see that April comment because of the amount of pages, I apologize for the ping - just please be sure to keep this topic in mind. Overland Content is something that impacts every player and the ease of the content is pretty much the only thing keeping a lot of players from experiencing the lore.

@CameraBeardThePirate I'm curious about why you think the ease of combat is preventing people from experiencing game lore. I'd think combat would be more of a distraction from it. My apologies if this was explained in one of the previous 172 pages but I am definitely not digging through that pile.

Because, simply put, Overland content is far too boring for a lot of people to actually bother completing the quests. Even if the lore is cool, I don't want to spend 20 minutes left clicking adds once or twice each in between the dialogue. I'd much rather be engaged with the combat in between the story beats.

Take Maelstrom Arena or Vateshran Arena for example. The mobs there will kill you fairly quickly if you're not actively defending. It's a lot more engaging as a result, you can't turn your brain off and face roll everything. In a similar vein, I love soloing dungeons - I can actually enjoy the dungeon storylines at a good pace and be engaged with the combat. They feel far more epic and grandiose.

Quests are boring if the combat in between dialogue moments are boring. When the 'big bad' dies from a couple abilities, the whole story just feels kinda... meh

Thanks for the reply. I think I understand what you're saying. For you and others like you, the combat is the spice in an otherwise bland quest burrito. It's the opposite for me. I do overland questing when I feel like getting into a story, and the combat in many circumstances feels unnecessarily shoe-horned in. I agree though that when the big bad dies in less than 3 seconds it's kind of funny in a sad way, but tbf we are supposed to be demi-gods in Tamriel.

I do agree that dungeons can be a good balance of combat difficulty and story quality, although the formulaic nature of dungeon combat (wipe 2-3 trash groups, fight boss, rinse and repeat) detracts from it for me.

As for the solo arenas, I've always felt that the stories ZOS included in them are completely irrelevant and ignored them. To me they are purely a combat challenge with the gear reward as the incentive to do them, with a story line added just because it's required.

CameraBeardThePirate

Kendaric wrote: »

Because, simply put, Overland content is far too boring for a lot of people to actually bother completing the quests. Even if the lore is cool, I don't want to spend 20 minutes left clicking adds once or twice each in between the dialogue. I'd much rather be engaged with the combat in between the story beats.

Take Maelstrom Arena or Vateshran Arena for example. The mobs there will kill you fairly quickly if you're not actively defending. It's a lot more engaging as a result, you can't turn your brain off and face roll everything. In a similar vein, I love soloing dungeons - I can actually enjoy the dungeon storylines at a good pace and be engaged with the combat.

Quests are boring if the combat in between dialogue moments are boring. When the 'big bad' dies from a couple abilities, the whole story just feels kinda... meh

If overland would get remotely as difficult as a solo arena, I couldn't play anymore unless it would be entirely optional. I simply don't have the reflexes for that, not to mention that it would mean a lot of stress.

I already have an extremely hard time doing public dungeons, apart from the base game ones.

And no, it's not a simple "git gud" issue.

Edited my original comment to say this, but I'm definitely not suggesting that all content should be that difficult, and I don't think anyone is suggesting that any difficulty change be mandatory for everyone.

However; it frustrates me that many mobs or mini-bosses in the arenas are far more difficult than quest bosses. It's silly to me that Joe Schmoe the Dremora in Normal Maelstrom is often stronger than an ancient leader of a powerful Vampire Cult that you have to destroy in a quest.

Marcus684

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Because, simply put, Overland content is far too boring for a lot of people to actually bother completing the quests. Even if the lore is cool, I don't want to spend 20 minutes left clicking adds once or twice each in between the dialogue. I'd much rather be engaged with the combat in between the story beats.

Take Maelstrom Arena or Vateshran Arena for example. The mobs there will kill you fairly quickly if you're not actively defending. It's a lot more engaging as a result, you can't turn your brain off and face roll everything. In a similar vein, I love soloing dungeons - I can actually enjoy the dungeon storylines at a good pace and be engaged with the combat.

Quests are boring if the combat in between dialogue moments are boring. When the 'big bad' dies from a couple abilities, the whole story just feels kinda... meh

If overland would get remotely as difficult as a solo arena, I couldn't play anymore unless it would be entirely optional. I simply don't have the reflexes for that, not to mention that it would mean a lot of stress.

I already have an extremely hard time doing public dungeons, apart from the base game ones.

And no, it's not a simple "git gud" issue.

...
However; it frustrates me that many mobs or mini-bosses in the arenas are far more difficult than quest bosses. It's silly to me that Joe Schmoe the Dremora in Normal Maelstrom is often stronger than an ancient leader of a powerful Vampire Cult that you have to destroy in a quest.

No need to get frustrated by this, as it's simply the nature of an online game. Overland will 100% always be the easiest combat in the game, as it caters to the LCD player, while solo arenas are designed to be challenging to even the top tier players. Therefore, a trash mob in an arena will by design always be more challenging than an overland quest boss. Due to the difference in combat capabilities of the top- and bottom-tier players there is just no way around this without making one or the other unplayably hard or easy for the intended audience.

SilverBride

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

However; it frustrates me that many mobs or mini-bosses in the arenas are far more difficult than quest bosses. It's silly to me that Joe Schmoe the Dremora in Normal Maelstrom is often stronger than an ancient leader of a powerful Vampire Cult that you have to destroy in a quest.

As someone that was playing before One Tamriel and remembers being stuck literally for days on a quest boss, and being unable to progress through the story quest until that boss was defeated... I much prefer things as they are now.

Kendaric

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Because, simply put, Overland content is far too boring for a lot of people to actually bother completing the quests. Even if the lore is cool, I don't want to spend 20 minutes left clicking adds once or twice each in between the dialogue. I'd much rather be engaged with the combat in between the story beats.

Take Maelstrom Arena or Vateshran Arena for example. The mobs there will kill you fairly quickly if you're not actively defending. It's a lot more engaging as a result, you can't turn your brain off and face roll everything. In a similar vein, I love soloing dungeons - I can actually enjoy the dungeon storylines at a good pace and be engaged with the combat.

Quests are boring if the combat in between dialogue moments are boring. When the 'big bad' dies from a couple abilities, the whole story just feels kinda... meh

If overland would get remotely as difficult as a solo arena, I couldn't play anymore unless it would be entirely optional. I simply don't have the reflexes for that, not to mention that it would mean a lot of stress.

I already have an extremely hard time doing public dungeons, apart from the base game ones.

And no, it's not a simple "git gud" issue.

Edited my original comment to say this, but I'm definitely not suggesting that all content should be that difficult, and I don't think anyone is suggesting that any difficulty change be mandatory for everyone.

However; it frustrates me that many mobs or mini-bosses in the arenas are far more difficult than quest bosses. It's silly to me that Joe Schmoe the Dremora in Normal Maelstrom is often stronger than an ancient leader of a powerful Vampire Cult that you have to destroy in a quest.

Let me put it this way... you know the Ascendant Magus fight at the end of High Isle? I died 5 or 6 times until I finally got lucky enough to beat him. Was it fun for me? No, not in the slightest. That fight alone is enough to make me never want to play High Isle again (there are a couple of other reasons that don't belong here).
Or Rada-al-Saran in the epilogue of the Markath DLC? I've yet to defeat him, so far my multiple attempts have failed.

I'm at a point where I dread the end of chapter fights, due to their amount of adds and mechanics.

Braffin

Maybe it could work, if we revert the problem and instead of nerfing veterans we simply buff players with little to no interest in combat, by using a mix of battle scaling and CP system.

Implement 8 slotable CP abilities with a cost of 1 CP (to ensure they can be activated as soon as a player hits lvl 50, or at least almost) which drastically reduce incoming dmg, while buffing dps at the same time. You could even go for things like constant cc immunity this way and therefore adress different issues.

As tradeoff you couldn't further adjust your build via CP, which is not a problem for people not interested in combat.

Working only in overland of course, to prevent exploiting in instanced content.

TaSheen

Kendaric wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Because, simply put, Overland content is far too boring for a lot of people to actually bother completing the quests. Even if the lore is cool, I don't want to spend 20 minutes left clicking adds once or twice each in between the dialogue. I'd much rather be engaged with the combat in between the story beats.

Take Maelstrom Arena or Vateshran Arena for example. The mobs there will kill you fairly quickly if you're not actively defending. It's a lot more engaging as a result, you can't turn your brain off and face roll everything. In a similar vein, I love soloing dungeons - I can actually enjoy the dungeon storylines at a good pace and be engaged with the combat.

Quests are boring if the combat in between dialogue moments are boring. When the 'big bad' dies from a couple abilities, the whole story just feels kinda... meh

If overland would get remotely as difficult as a solo arena, I couldn't play anymore unless it would be entirely optional. I simply don't have the reflexes for that, not to mention that it would mean a lot of stress.

I already have an extremely hard time doing public dungeons, apart from the base game ones.

And no, it's not a simple "git gud" issue.

Edited my original comment to say this, but I'm definitely not suggesting that all content should be that difficult, and I don't think anyone is suggesting that any difficulty change be mandatory for everyone.

However; it frustrates me that many mobs or mini-bosses in the arenas are far more difficult than quest bosses. It's silly to me that Joe Schmoe the Dremora in Normal Maelstrom is often stronger than an ancient leader of a powerful Vampire Cult that you have to destroy in a quest.

Let me put it this way... you know the Ascendant Magus fight at the end of High Isle? I died 5 or 6 times until I finally got lucky enough to beat him. Was it fun for me? No, not in the slightest. That fight alone is enough to make me never want to play High Isle again (there are a couple of other reasons that don't belong here).
Or Rada-al-Saran in the epilogue of the Markath DLC? I've yet to defeat him, so far my multiple attempts have failed.

I'm at a point where I dread the end of chapter fights, due to their amount of adds and mechanics.

Took me 7 tries on one account, 8 on the other one. Again, it's a case of not being able to reliably access the NPC "assist" because of mega ping and poor reflexes mostly; not to mention not being able to dodge roll or even make attacks all connect.

So as of High Isle, I'm just not going to do zone main story quests any more, because it's seriously disheartening to get to for instance Mulaamnir (which took me forever - and the only reason I managed it finally was because he didn't jump back to full HP when I died; that was the single most miserable experience of my gaming life), Vandacia, and the Ascendent Magus and beat my brains out because I'm not able to use the "aids". No, not remotely "fun".

And no, I haven't even bothered with S Elsweyr, The Deadlands, or Galen. I'm not a masochist after all.

There are other things I enjoy about ESO, so I do have those. But questing has always been my first love in games, followed closely by exploring - which now is fairly uncomfortable in Tel Pen because of the Seekers' attack radius.

TaSheen

Braffin wrote: »

Maybe it could work, if we revert the problem and instead of nerfing veterans we simply buff players with little to no interest in combat, by using a mix of battle scaling and CP system.

Implement 8 slotable CP abilities with a cost of 1 CP (to ensure they can be activated as soon as a player hits lvl 50, or at least almost) which drastically reduce incoming dmg, while buffing dps at the same time. You could even go for things like constant cc immunity this way and therefore adress different issues.

As tradeoff you couldn't further adjust your build via CP, which is not a problem for people not interested in combat.

Working only in overland of course, to prevent exploiting in instanced content.

Well, that could work - but for me only if the green tree wasn't included, since even my lowbies use all the green CP on each account. Which is because all my characters explore, harvest, open chests etc. while I'm playing them.

Braffin

TaSheen wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Maybe it could work, if we revert the problem and instead of nerfing veterans we simply buff players with little to no interest in combat, by using a mix of battle scaling and CP system.

Implement 8 slotable CP abilities with a cost of 1 CP (to ensure they can be activated as soon as a player hits lvl 50, or at least almost) which drastically reduce incoming dmg, while buffing dps at the same time. You could even go for things like constant cc immunity this way and therefore adress different issues.

As tradeoff you couldn't further adjust your build via CP, which is not a problem for people not interested in combat.

Working only in overland of course, to prevent exploiting in instanced content.

Well, that could work - but for me only if the green tree wasn't included, since even my lowbies use all the green CP on each account. Which is because all my characters explore, harvest, open chests etc. while I'm playing them.

I'd never dare touching the green CP tree, I'm not THAT crazy

That's why I suggested 8 slotables instead of 12.

Kendaric

Braffin wrote: »

Maybe it could work, if we revert the problem and instead of nerfing veterans we simply buff players with little to no interest in combat, by using a mix of battle scaling and CP system.

Implement 8 slotable CP abilities with a cost of 1 CP (to ensure they can be activated as soon as a player hits lvl 50, or at least almost) which drastically reduce incoming dmg, while buffing dps at the same time.

As tradeoff you couldn't further adjust your build via CP, which is not a problem for people not interested in combat.

Working only in overland of course, to prevent exploiting in instanced content.

Yes, I had thought about something similiar to that idea.

While I wouldn't mind the loss of the blue and red stars, not having access to the green star would be annoying. But in general the idea has merit.

Maybe something as simple as a easymode scroll near questbosses would also be possible.

CameraBeardThePirate

Kendaric wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Because, simply put, Overland content is far too boring for a lot of people to actually bother completing the quests. Even if the lore is cool, I don't want to spend 20 minutes left clicking adds once or twice each in between the dialogue. I'd much rather be engaged with the combat in between the story beats.

Take Maelstrom Arena or Vateshran Arena for example. The mobs there will kill you fairly quickly if you're not actively defending. It's a lot more engaging as a result, you can't turn your brain off and face roll everything. In a similar vein, I love soloing dungeons - I can actually enjoy the dungeon storylines at a good pace and be engaged with the combat.

Quests are boring if the combat in between dialogue moments are boring. When the 'big bad' dies from a couple abilities, the whole story just feels kinda... meh

If overland would get remotely as difficult as a solo arena, I couldn't play anymore unless it would be entirely optional. I simply don't have the reflexes for that, not to mention that it would mean a lot of stress.

I already have an extremely hard time doing public dungeons, apart from the base game ones.

And no, it's not a simple "git gud" issue.

Edited my original comment to say this, but I'm definitely not suggesting that all content should be that difficult, and I don't think anyone is suggesting that any difficulty change be mandatory for everyone.

However; it frustrates me that many mobs or mini-bosses in the arenas are far more difficult than quest bosses. It's silly to me that Joe Schmoe the Dremora in Normal Maelstrom is often stronger than an ancient leader of a powerful Vampire Cult that you have to destroy in a quest.

Let me put it this way... you know the Ascendant Magus fight at the end of High Isle? I died 5 or 6 times until I finally got lucky enough to beat him. Was it fun for me? No, not in the slightest. That fight alone is enough to make me never want to play High Isle again (there are a couple of other reasons that don't belong here).
Or Rada-al-Saran in the epilogue of the Markath DLC? I've yet to defeat him, so far my multiple attempts have failed.

I'm at a point where I dread the end of chapter fights, due to their amount of adds and mechanics.

For a lot of players, end of chapter bosses are the exact opposite - a disappointment with how easy and anticlimactic they are. When I finished Necrom, I said, out loud, "Is that it?" Final bosses should be meaningful for everyone. I wouldn't wish extra difficulty on any players in your boat, but I'm in multiple guilds of players that would love more difficult overland.

I want to stress again that no one (at least, no one I've seen thus far) is asking for content to be more difficult for everyone; that'd just flip the issue upside down. A toggle of some sort would really be the only acceptable solution.

SilverBride

Kendaric wrote: »

Maybe something as simple as a easymode scroll near questbosses would also be possible.

I think a hard mode scroll would be more appropriate, because I strongly suspect that there would be more players doing these bosses on normal mode than not. And this would still provide an additional challenge for those that choose it.

Also Hard Mode is more descriptive of how difficult the fight would actually be than Normal Mode and Easy Mode. And using an already established system and terminology would help prevent confusion.

Kendaric

TaSheen wrote: »

Took me 7 tries on one account, 8 on the other one. Again, it's a case of not being able to reliably access the NPC "assist" because of mega ping and poor reflexes mostly; not to mention not being able to dodge roll or even make attacks all connect.

So as of High Isle, I'm just not going to do zone main story quests any more, because it's seriously disheartening to get to for instance Mulaamnir (which took me forever - and the only reason I managed it finally was because he didn't jump back to full HP when I died; that was the single most miserable experience of my gaming life), Vandacia, and the Ascendent Magus and beat my brains out because I'm not able to use the "aids". No, not remotely "fun".

And no, I haven't even bothered with S Elsweyr, The Deadlands, or Galen. I'm not a masochist after all.

There are other things I enjoy about ESO, so I do have those. But questing has always been my first love in games, followed closely by exploring - which now is fairly uncomfortable in Tel Pen because of the Seekers' attack radius.

The last end of chapter boss fight I could manage without dying too much was Svargrim in Greymoor. That fight was actually somewhat fun.
I didn't even bother with Vandacia, as Blackwood's entire story was pretty much like Eveli Not-so-Sharp-Arrow...annoying and uninspired. Oh, look it's Mehrune's Dagon again, wanting to destroy Tamriel.

Kendaric

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

I want to stress again that no one (at least, no one I've seen thus far) is asking for content to be more difficult for everyone; that'd just flip the issue upside down. A toggle of some sort would really be the only acceptable solution.

I'm not opposed to a toggle, it's ZOS you need to convince.

TaSheen

@Kendaric - as questers we have totally opposite tastes: I only bought W Skyrim for the antiquities skill line, and to this day, I've never done one quest there - I don't like vampire and werewolf or Reachmen content at all. The Reach in TES V Skyrim is the one area I never play.

Contrariwise, I LOVED High Isle (though I would have also loved to have slaughtered Eveli - such an annoying little prat), and I still want Erlibru's Cottage as a player home. I also loved Elsweyr, no matter that I quit questing after doing some of the Dragonhold ones - enough on one character to open up the dailies.

It just makes me sad that I'm not able to play the way I did in WoW and RIFT. I even raided with my friends and family guild in those games, but those days are long in the past now.

Braffin

Kendaric wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Maybe it could work, if we revert the problem and instead of nerfing veterans we simply buff players with little to no interest in combat, by using a mix of battle scaling and CP system.

Implement 8 slotable CP abilities with a cost of 1 CP (to ensure they can be activated as soon as a player hits lvl 50, or at least almost) which drastically reduce incoming dmg, while buffing dps at the same time.

As tradeoff you couldn't further adjust your build via CP, which is not a problem for people not interested in combat.

Working only in overland of course, to prevent exploiting in instanced content.

Yes, I had thought about something similiar to that idea.

While I wouldn't mind the loss of the blue and red stars, not having access to the green star would be annoying. But in general the idea has merit.

Maybe something as simple as a easymode scroll near questbosses would also be possible.

I'm glad at least the two of us can come to an agreement. That's definitely an improvement

And sure, green CP should stay untouched, they're not combat-related.

There are several problems I see with scrolls tho:
1) You would need literally a ton of them. It's easier to balance these things via character adjustment.
2) The scrolls we have actually in game are changing the mob instead of the player. I don't see that working in overland.
3) The change would be completely static, while changes via CP could be more subtle.

TaSheen

Braffin wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Maybe it could work, if we revert the problem and instead of nerfing veterans we simply buff players with little to no interest in combat, by using a mix of battle scaling and CP system.

Implement 8 slotable CP abilities with a cost of 1 CP (to ensure they can be activated as soon as a player hits lvl 50, or at least almost) which drastically reduce incoming dmg, while buffing dps at the same time. You could even go for things like constant cc immunity this way and therefore adress different issues.

As tradeoff you couldn't further adjust your build via CP, which is not a problem for people not interested in combat.

Working only in overland of course, to prevent exploiting in instanced content.

Well, that could work - but for me only if the green tree wasn't included, since even my lowbies use all the green CP on each account. Which is because all my characters explore, harvest, open chests etc. while I'm playing them.

I'd never dare touching the green CP tree, I'm not THAT crazy

That's why I suggested 8 slotables instead of 12.

Ah, that's great then! Perhaps something can be worked out eventually then.

Dack_Janiels

ESO deserves harder overland content with better rewards that way, the game can provide more engaging and challenging gameplay for experienced players. As players progress and become more skilled, they often seek greater challenges to keep the game fresh and exciting. By introducing harder overland content, the game can cater to this desire for increased difficulty and offer a sense of accomplishment to those who conquer these tougher encounters.

Furthermore, providing better rewards for such content is essential for incentivizing players to engage with it. Meaningful rewards, such as powerful gear, unique cosmetic items, or exclusive achievements, not only serve as a symbol of a player's accomplishment but also act as a motivation to overcome the challenges presented by the harder overland content. This creates a sense of progression and reward for dedicated players who invest their time and effort into mastering the game.

In addition, introducing harder overland content can promote a more vibrant and active player community. It can foster a sense of camaraderie and healthy competition among players as they strive to conquer these challenging encounters and showcase their achievements. This, in turn, can enhance the overall gameplay experience and encourage player retention.

Ultimately, by offering harder overland content with better rewards, ESO can cater to the needs of experienced players, provide a sense of accomplishment, and foster a thriving community, thereby contributing to the long-term success and enjoyment of the game.

Vhozek

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

No worries @CameraBeardThePirate. Totally get it and understand why this is an important topic. The thing to remember is this is a change that will impact every player, like you noted. So there is a ton of conversation and plotting out of potential issues that can come from a change to overland. Simply put, it isn't like just changing a damage or health slider. But the team is aware and have discussions regularly.

You guys should really use naked combat as the foundation dictating just how much harder it needs to be.
Naked combat has no business being that overpowered at early levels. It makes leveling a new character feel super boring and nobody truly stops to get their character naked, plus they have their armor buffs on top of that.
Gimping your character at later levels just makes no sense either.

I still hold the belief it just needs to be a potion that removes that early level buff as an experimental and temporary solution. The incentives can be thought about another day since people seem to have enough incentive to play harder overland content, apparent by the years of the same threads about it.
I think people just want a reason to use their roll dodge in PvE, it could be decent practice too. Maybe the new players feel encouraged to try PvP after all that training and buy the next expansion that will give them that extra edge.

Making questing enjoyable by making PvE combat more engaging is the incentive it seems.

"Mobs deal X% more damage to players and health regen is disabled"

Vhozek

I wouldn't mind a new wearable item.
Maybe soul gems with different properties.
Requires charges to maintain, charged with Soul Trap skill.
Soul Trap essentially disables 1 skill slot.

Black soul gems: player debuffs

Blessed soul gems: player buffs

Blessed soul gems could just give simple utility buffs but black soul gems are much more hostile and common to come by (meaning there's a lot of different player debuffs).
You could combine them at the enchanting station to give a more powerful debuff or buff. The outcome depends on what effects you combined.

Why would ingame characters want debuffs?
I don't know, something to do with some Daedra affecting the people of Tamriel. Maybe Peryite is spreading disease with black soul gems and some priest of Stendarr is providing blessed soul gems or the know how on how to bless them.
Blessing soul gems could be considered a difficult art to master due to the nature of soul gems in general and a glimpse of hope for our brother Saint Jiub in later games.

I don't know, something like that.
Could even be a whole expansion based on the whole thing.

Or

Could be some sort of back equipment to come up with more cosmetics like wings, capes, backpacks.
The fact that it's on your back could signal different things.
Wings lift you up, meaning they're buffs.
Backpacks hold you down, meaning debuffs.

Players: but backpacks = more inventory lol
No, maybe you're just cursed to carry your burdens on your back.

Kendaric

Vhozek wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

No worries @CameraBeardThePirate. Totally get it and understand why this is an important topic. The thing to remember is this is a change that will impact every player, like you noted. So there is a ton of conversation and plotting out of potential issues that can come from a change to overland. Simply put, it isn't like just changing a damage or health slider. But the team is aware and have discussions regularly.

You guys should really use naked combat as the foundation dictating just how much harder it needs to be.
Naked combat has no business being that overpowered at early levels. It makes leveling a new character feel super boring and nobody truly stops to get their character naked, plus they have their armor buffs on top of that.
Gimping your character at later levels just makes no sense either.

I still hold the belief it just needs to be a potion that removes that early level buff as an experimental and temporary solution. The incentives can be thought about another day since people seem to have enough incentive to play harder overland content, apparent by the years of the same threads about it.
I think people just want a reason to use their roll dodge in PvE, it could be decent practice too. Maybe the new players feel encouraged to try PvP after all that training and buy the next expansion that will give them that extra edge.

Making questing enjoyable by making PvE combat more engaging is the incentive it seems.

"Mobs deal X% more damage to players and health regen is disabled"

You mean a debuff toggle so players could debuff themselves (basically something that increases mob damage, decreases resistances and resource regen)?

We've suggested that, but the "harder overland crowd" seems to dislike the idea for the most part. I'm not sure how LotRO did their difficulty slider for overland combat, but that might be something worth looking into.

Kesstryl

SilverBride wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

However; it frustrates me that many mobs or mini-bosses in the arenas are far more difficult than quest bosses. It's silly to me that Joe Schmoe the Dremora in Normal Maelstrom is often stronger than an ancient leader of a powerful Vampire Cult that you have to destroy in a quest.

As someone that was playing before One Tamriel and remembers being stuck literally for days on a quest boss, and being unable to progress through the story quest until that boss was defeated... I much prefer things as they are now.

I agree. I remember needing to level up to the next zone before I could defeat Dosha, and I don't want to go back to those days. I do the quests to relax and enjoy a story, not to challenge myself. I don't want to have to wait days to gear up and get BIS just to progress a story. Dungeons, trials, and arenas are where I go for a challenge.

Maybe a feature could be added to quest bosses to optionally make them more difficult, like read a scroll as is done in dungeons to activate hardmode.

SilverBride

Kesstryl wrote: »

Maybe a feature could be added to quest bosses to optionally make them more difficult, like read a scroll as is done in dungeons to activate hardmode.

This seems like a very fair and reasonable solution, especially since the quest boss fights being too easy for some players is the biggest complaint I've seen in this thread.

I don't know how big a job it would be to go back and create a hard mode for all the previous quest bosses, but it would go a long way to increasing satisfaction for some players.

colossalvoids

Would be a good start implementing something like that in future quest content without backtracking immediately and do it over time, better that than nothing.

Braffin

colossalvoids wrote: »

Would be a good start implementing something like that in future quest content without backtracking immediately and do it over time, better that than nothing.

Combined with more engaging endgame content (in quality and quantity) like arenas, as is already scheduled for Q4, on a regular basis we could call it a compromise.