Overland Content Feedback Thread

Sarousse42

Lotro is adding landscape difficulty slider.

https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Landscape_Difficulty

It would be so cool to have the same on ESO.

TaSheen

? I thought they had that already a couple years ago?

spartaxoxo

TaSheen wrote: »

? I thought they had that already a couple years ago?

I'm guessing that they are expanding the feature to more servers because it was wildly successful. I believe it used only be on certain ones. But IDK as I don't play that game.

TaSheen

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I'm guessing that they are expanding the feature to more servers because it was wildly successful. I believe it used only be on certain ones. But IDK as I don't play that game.

Oh, I've never played it either, I just figured it was everywhere/all servers or whatever.

Dahveed

I made a thread about this just a few mins ago not realizing this was here, someone else told me about it.

I'll just copy/paste my thread here. TLDR is that it's way too easy and nothing feels consequential.



✭✭✭✭✭
Lately there has been a new "hardcore" trend going on in games with higher difficulty. I have been playing HC WoW Classic lately and the difference is staggering. My level 12 paladin just died horrifically to 2 (yes TWO) random Defias bandits in Westfall, level 12 and level 13. That would never happen in this game.

The main thing keeping me away from new characters in ESO (and coming back to this game generally) has been the absolute joke that combat and PvE single player content.

If I make a new character it's almost impossible to fail anything, and none of my decisions matter. Everything is way too easy, there is way too much loot, crafting is too easy, quests are too easy... and nothing hurts when I get hit. It makes my class choice purely a cosmetic one, since none of the buttons I press even matter. Some people claim that the "difficulty" of older MMOs was just an illusion because of nostalgia goggles, but they are absolutely wrong. In older games, literally every point mattered and one misclick could mean your doom. In ESO everything is just constant faceroll and nothing ever really hurts you.

As an example, here is a video of my brand new, naked character with no CP, no skills, no gear and no weapon literally just standing there as I press no buttons, and I am unable to die because my passive health regen is greater than the mob's damage output: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTDMjZJXoqE

It's completely broken.

I was hoping (perhaps naively) that other devs of other games might take notice of the recent surge in popularity of WoW classic (and other DS-type games) and have a version of ESO that actually packs a punch.

Examples of changes I'd implement:

- Drastically reduced resource regeneration during combat, making stam/magicka management crucial in the open world
- No passive health regeneration (ever), making food and potions meaningful
- Greatly increased damage output from all open world enemies, actually forcing you to roll dodge and block
- Faster enemies, faster animations, and no "warning" animations when you get too close
- greater aggro radius
- WAY less loot (like 90 percent less chests, less magic items, less loot in general... It is absurd that you can kill a random wolf and find a battleaxe, a pelt, and 2 or 3 other random lootables)
- A return of old-school leveling (i.e. no more de-leveled zones)
- An actual penalty for dying, not just a corpse run (Not HC char deletion per se but dying should suck).

This would just be a start, there are many other absurd things about this game which make questing super boring and easy, with no consequential decisions in your character build.

I'd be happy however with just some very basic changes, like having open-world enemies that actually deal damage when they attack you and don't give you a full two second warning before they engage.

Dahveed

And also, a few years back (wow time flies!) I had made a thread about a personal debuff in the sytle of WoW's "resurrection sickness" buff which nerfs an individual player. (i.e. less hp, less damage output, more damage taken).

This would be pretty easy to implement IMO and would not require any more balancing of the actual world, so it wouldn't affect new players etc.

Kendaric

Dahveed wrote: »

And also, a few years back (wow time flies!) I had made a thread about a personal debuff in the sytle of WoW's "resurrection sickness" buff which nerfs an individual player. (i.e. less hp, less damage output, more damage taken).

This would be pretty easy to implement IMO and would not require any more balancing of the actual world, so it wouldn't affect new players etc.

That is essentially what is meant when people mention a debuff slider/toggle. So far, however, it is unknown whether they'd consider something like that.

ADarklore

I think a main problem in ZOS ever adding 'increased difficulty' to overland content, is that the people asking for it cannot even agree on what that means. People suggest one thing, people argue against it. ZOS is in a no-win situation when it seems nothing will please everyone, and in fact, may end up pleasing few. So it's easier for them to keep the status quo and just let people continue venting by adding pages to this thread forever.

Dahveed

Another off-beat idea I had was to give this whole thing an Elder Scrolls flavour:

make some kind of quest (or something) where you have to bargain with Clavicus Vile for some trinket or other, and then he ends up tricking you. Call it "Vile's Curse" which debuffs you.

If you want to remove the debuff (i.e. you're a wimp and want free wins) you have to complete a separate small quest to "defeat" Vile and get your power back.

They could really go to town with this if they wanted to and add achievements, titles, toys etc. to the action bar for bragging rights.

IMO more loot and xp etc wouldn't be necessary. I care very little about faster levelling, cramming more useless green and blue gear into my already full bags etc.

I just want the game to actually be fun and intense.

TaSheen

I don't care what happens as long as it's OPTIONAL.

alay_NB

I really love the High Isle scenery and the Firesong scenery.

Sadly I've been there just a handful of times since I have to be in Craglorn to queue for trials.

Mayrael

I came up with an idea. Addressing concerns that at some point, players who play at higher difficulty levels may want rewards for it, or that there won't be enough motivation to play at higher difficulty levels without additional rewards, I thought of a certain concept. What if a difficulty-increasing debuff provided a cool-looking aura? The stronger the debuff, the more badass the aura becomes (here, the Crown Store could offer various auras), like a grim reaper aura in a Daedric style or a dragon aura, etc. Purely cosmetic, it would add a lot of fun to gameplay, and those who don't use it wouldn't lose anything.

KarlosCV

I was just alerted to this sticky, so sorry for being waaay late.

Tried the game 3 years ago because I loved all Elder Scrolls games and Bethesda was taking its sweet time with TES6, so I jumped in.

After a while I realized this is not Elder Scrolls with friends. I completely fell in love with the world and freedom and lore but the overland content was shockingly easy, without an option to make it more challenging.

I'm not some tough guy trying to posture here. The reason I didn't have fun questing in ESO isn't because I think I'm a serious MLG supergamer playing Dark Souls with one hand behind my back. It's because without any challenge the RPG elements of the game don't make sense. They're pointless.

It almost doesn't matter what class you play, how you distribute your stats, what abilities you're using and what gear and weapons you're sporting. Enemies just die in a few hits, even the scary looking and even minibosses. All I was doing in those 5 or 6 hours I was playing was running around and mindlessly pressing "1" on my keyboard.

I know that eventually there are the veteran instances and raids and whatnot but guys, it takes dozens of hours to level up your character to get to them. Dozens of hours running around pressing "1", while not particularly caring about level ups or stats or abilities or loot. How is this fun for anyone? I suspect people defending the zero-challenge overland have all levelled up to max years ago and now are only doing raids or social events and so they forget how incredibly mind-numbing levelling is.

Then again, I'm not an MMO player. ESO was my first one I've ever tried. Maybe all or most MMOs are like this (is WoW overland content challenging? I have no idea). I just thought an Elder Scrolls MMO would be like playing Skyrim, only bigger, better and with friends and I was disappointed I didn't get a normal RPG but something like a walking simulator with pointless RPG elements, albeit in a beautiful and captivating world.

If the developers ever figure out a way to make the overland experience resemble a standard single-player RPG like Skyrim with optional difficulty levels (for the record, I never play Skyrim on Legendary, that's way too obnoxious for me, I usually play on Expert and later on Master, when you're too OP in the endgame) I will give them ALL my money

Still I wish them, their fans and the game all best because putting the overland content aside, they have done and are doing an amazing job.

TaSheen

Wow overland when I first started playing close to 2 decades ago was brutal. It was my first mmo, I was lost, I had no idea what was going on to begin with - but within a month or so I was squared away - and it was STILL brutal. As I reached 40, I finally thought I might have a handle on it, only to find out that WotLK content was even more difficult. And that continued clear through Mists of Pandaria, where I had many charactes by that time at the max level 90.

Due to other issues with where the game was going (and the "graphics overhaul" I despised because my girls no longer looked like my girls), I left WoW forever in 2013, but my daughter and her husband picked up WoW Classic a while back, and for them it was just as brutal the second time around (they played at the same time I did, as did my sister and nephew and left the first time about the time I did, and for the same reasons),

RIFT was where I landed next, and while it wasn't as brutal as WoW for me, I was older, my reflexes were slowing, my internet was worse than when I played WoW, so it was still hard. I left RIFT in 2016 for some of the same reasons I left WoW - and the only thing I miss from either game is RIFT's housing platform (I'm considering picking the game back up just for the housing....)

I'm another bunch of years older, my internet is marginally better, my reflexes are even worse (it depends on your genes how good your reflexes are going to be in your mid-70s: I can still touch-type 120 wpm - but twitch style combat remains not my oyster, and isn't at all easy for me).

So I've been playing since 2017 - and overland is NOT easy for me. That's one person's answer.

LesserCircle

We are never going to get this, they are too scared of what the game was before One Tamriel. Looking back, I prefer some of the old ways of this game, a feeling of progression through the zones and story, no crates, less flashy and absurd looking skins.

Don't get me wrong, what they did saved the game, but in my opinion it was only the opening up the alliances that helped the game and not the level scaling.

Mrtoobyy

Why do someone even create stories with big bad villains that is a threat to all of Tamriel when these villains are easier than a mob in a vet dungeon.

Why even put all that hard work and great ideas into something that does not even inte slightest hold up to the build up of things?
Maybe it is because I have been here since beta but I would 110% agree that the game needs the feel when questing it had back at launch.
AN OPTION would add that, not remove anything.

My main templar has several of thousands hour invested into it and as a veteran player it would be so cool to put him into the world, quest and have a challange. Maybe I am too experienced or the toon has too OP gear but besides PVP and try to solo Vet dungeons nothing is a challange anymore.

Elsonso

Mrtoobyy wrote: »

Why do someone even create stories with big bad villains that is a threat to all of Tamriel when these villains are easier than a mob in a vet dungeon.

If I had to guess it is because they don't want to force people to group up to do the overland quest final boss. Your mob example aside, if the big bad for the Chapter "end of the world" story was as bad as even a boss in a public dungeon, people would likely rage quit out of frustration.

This is one of the reasons the main quest in Chapters needs to drop this "end of the world" theme, by the way. I doubt that they are even capable of pulling off whatever it is they are trying to do.

KarlosCV

Elsonso wrote: »

people would likely rage quit out of frustration

A crucial point. Many would certainly be frustrated and quit if the overland content contained some challenge.

But how many TES fans, coming from Oblivion/Skyrim and thirsty for more Elder Scrolls, tried ESO over the years, realized the overland is mostly sightseeing and social affair instead of a traditional RPG, and quit? Players like me? Considering how often this topic pops up we're certainly not a tiny group.

I don't envy the developer's job. You can't accommodate both types of fandom. Or can you? Is there a way to make two separate servers - "RPG" and "social"? I'm reading Blizzard is doing this with WoW, could it happen with ESO?

noblecron

Something I'd really wish they'd implement is that when you quest, multiple players can target the same quest item instead of having to wait for the item to respawn five minutes at a time. The Sirk questline in Deeshane for example. Those potions take five minutes to respawn, sometimes longer when multiple folk are in there

ssewallb14_ESO

Apocrypha looks cool as heck, easily the best Oblivion realm visually.

noblecron

I'd also really love it if the Tales of Tribute lady was moved. I hate being hounded by her at every major city. She should be restricted to High Isle. Can't even play Tribute without High Isle anyway

Jammy420

Kendaric wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Youre insulting casual players. I am by no means a hardcore player, and the difficulty is laughable. I stood still last night while i made my dinner being attacked by a mob of 10 enemies, in light armor, and i just out healed with health regen. Thats extreme.

What mobs attacked you and how much health regen do you have? Also, how many CP and in which zone were you?

At the time I was playing with no cp slotted, and garbage overland white and green gear. Oh, I was in summerset. Health regen was 300 i think. Again, insultingly easy. Why do people think " casual player " means unable to do any damage?

Jammy420

Snamyap wrote: »

Arunei wrote: »

Also, people need to remember that Overland is where a bulk of ESO story is. It's meant to be easy so people can actually enjoy the story. Overland isn't meant to offer the same challenge as dungeons, trials, or PvP, because the main point of Overland is story, not challenge. You have to cater to the lowest common denominator for these things. How often do we see people complaining that people in PUGs do next to no DPS and seem to only know how to Light Attack from a corner? I remember seeing before, too, one of the devs mentioning a while back how the average player doesn't do over 10k DPS? Something like that? Or maybe it was that Companions average 10k DPS because they're meant to do just a bit less than the average player so they do help people who need it but aren't meant to replace another actual player in harder content? There was some actual number given by someone, maybe it was Rich, I just can't remember the exact context.

My point with that is that if the average player is doing low DPS and not really engaging with combat, then it stands to reason the devs aren't going to want to implement a blanket increase in Overland difficulty. It'll just make things harder and more tedious for the average person. Which, again, is why if they do anything to increase Overland difficulty in general, it needs to strictly be an opt-in thing.

Maybe they aren't breaking 10k dps because the game never challenged them to? They never had to learn to be more capable before they stepped into group content, and then they suddenly run into a brick wall, get yelled at by other players, and log of in distress. The difference is simply too big.

This isvery true. I learned the combat, weaving etc, When the game was still relatively difficult. It helped me get better. Now though I can hardly play one quest without yawning and shutting down the game. I really want to experience the last few dlcs, but the overland is so damned easy, that I just fall asleep and stop playing.

Mandragon

I'll add my voice to the feedback that the overland content is beyond easy and combat system as a result almost meaningless. Given that overland is where I spend the majority of my time I fully wish it could be improved. Its the main reason I quit this game for periods of time. I am quite certain that there is a significant population of people who feel the same way given that this is the #1 thread on the forum.

Would be great to see some improvement in this area to help allow those people who enjoy meaningful and interesting combat an option to engage in that while doing the main quest stories in overland.

mocap

Simple solution, probably already suggested a thousand times in this thread, sorry.

Crafted set:
(2) Increases incoming damage from monsters by 25%
(3) Decreases outgoing damage to monsters by 25%
(4) Increases both to 50%
(5) Increases both to 75%

No interfere with other players who don't need it.
No interfere with PvP.
No need for vet instances.
Flexible (values can be adjusted).
Easy to implement.

And pls don't say that this will be boring&stuff, cuz thats what actually a lot of singleplayer videogames do with difficulty. Skyrim for example. Rest is up to player: gear lvl 1, vampire stage 4, etc etc...

BlueRaven

KarlosCV wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

people would likely rage quit out of frustration

A crucial point. Many would certainly be frustrated and quit if the overland content contained some challenge.

But how many TES fans, coming from Oblivion/Skyrim and thirsty for more Elder Scrolls, tried ESO over the years, realized the overland is mostly sightseeing and social affair instead of a traditional RPG, and quit? Players like me? Considering how often this topic pops up we're certainly not a tiny group.

I don't envy the developer's job. You can't accommodate both types of fandom. Or can you? Is there a way to make two separate servers - "RPG" and "social"? I'm reading Blizzard is doing this with WoW, could it happen with ESO?

Skyrim had super easy final boss fights.

By the time I get to the sovengard fight, for example, all it took was a single arrow shot or two to win. I usually had my weapon so maxed out at that point that I was one or two shoting all dragons. Any and all targets I was doing ludicrous damage to. (Thanks to the endless crafting power up rotation.) No mods actually needed.

Here is a guide to give you the general idea;

https://youtu.be/zuwIg5uSLq0

Just like in eso, I can always make my character weaker to make the bosses less of a push over.

Just like in Skyrim, the fact that i am fighting with gear and talents that makes the boss fight basically meaningless was my decision.

I don’t understand players with golded out bis slot gear and perfect builds wondering why things die so quickly.

Fallefel

I also add my vote on top of the pile; I need difficult overland to maximize my enjoyment. Throw some light-hearted incentive that no casual player would seethe over for missing. Example exp bonus and 5% gold gain. Harder mobs, longer time, tiny bit more exp.

Saying that people take the path of least resistance; I did a skyshard run yesterday for my arcanist and I didn't wait for the delve boss to spawn, because it felt so meaningless to wait for such a pushover, so I didn't care. If it was herald seeker, those flying monsters in Telvanni Peninsula, I would've appreciated the delve more and waited for the boss.

Easiest solution to implement this quickly and painless is to have a crafted set like someone mentioned before with 1 traits researched. It's baffling that such an easy way of achieving this is overlooked and ignored when it's clear, that they can push out sets rather easily.

"Crafted set:
(2) Increases incoming damage from monsters by 25%
(3) Decreases outgoing damage to monsters by 25%
(4) Increases both to 50%
(5) Increases both to 75%"
@Mocap wrote this. I'd add some incentive like at 5 pieces additionally; 10% more experience and gold gain. Nothing dramatic, but something to balance off the increased difficulty.

Gnesnig

Fallefel wrote: »

"Crafted set:
(2) Increases incoming damage from monsters by 25%
(3) Decreases outgoing damage to monsters by 25%
(4) Increases both to 50%
(5) Increases both to 75%"
@Mocap wrote this. I'd add some incentive like at 5 pieces additionally; 10% more experience and gold gain. Nothing dramatic, but something to balance off the increased difficulty.

The problem with this is that purposely making things harder for yourself is something that only a minority of people would do. I don't know the population differences between No-CP and standard Cyrodill, but that would be one indicator. Similarly, one could add an option upon entering a delve to disable CP's to at least make them somewhat harder. But in general, the delve bosses need a boost.

SweetrollHoarder

Loving the new Nymics. Really nice group system. I like that it encourages grouping up and playing with other players in an MMO. It feels Old School in a good way. I'd love to see more of this stuff coming out as a sort of "Craglorn Lite".

berunhieyes

mocap wrote: »

Simple solution, probably already suggested a thousand times in this thread, sorry.

Crafted set:
(2) Increases incoming damage from monsters by 25%
(3) Decreases outgoing damage to monsters by 25%
(4) Increases both to 50%
(5) Increases both to 75%

This capability pretty much already exists in game. The same effects can be achieved by using crafted low-level gear, unslotting CPs, and if you're really serious, resetting attributes.

However, it's pretty clear that the people on this thread calling for harder overland aren't interested in this approach.