Feb 15 Cyrodiil Test Details

Alchimiste1

ty zos, I for one like not having 5 vates destro on me all the time.

Flangdoodle

As a fellow guildie remarked "So for the next 6-7 months every set of gear you can get from Cyrodiil doesn’t work in Cyrodiil"

NotTaylorSwift

@ZOS_GinaBruno are you not even gonna add monster sets or mythics back or ANYTHING? People are happy that sets like vateshran, zaan, crimson etc are not working. Literally no one had an opinion on more than half of the effected sets. 18 useable sets(or however many it is) isn't exactly what people wanted when you said "no proc cyrodiil". Just seems you kinda missed the point on this one.

nuttytom

Terrible idea. No dmg tanks could atleast be killed by procs. Now everyone runs around in a massive group because it’s the only way they can kill people. Plus the sets available are mostly trash for most classes. Cross healing is the real problem here and needs to be disabled again.

xaraan

Starshadw wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

My bigger concern though is you guys need to make a lot more sets that are not proc sets work. And not in Q3, but right now. Sets like seducer, necropotence, war maiden, etc. should all be use-able. Even sets that have food conditions like bright throat and bone pirate should work.

The problem is that those if-then sets work the same way as proc sets (which are also basically if-then sets) - so they must all currently be treated the same in terms of the game code and thus aren't easy to separate. I would guess that the statement about "we will have implemented some new code so we can have more flexibility to campaign rulesets as it applies to proc sets" is about the sets like the ones you mention above. We'll have to wait and see.

Yea, I'd guess that's what the Q3 thing meant too, but IMO it's unacceptable to leave less than a couple dozen sets working for most of the year.

Nidhoeggr

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun. To that end, we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3.

Firstly: I totally agree No-Proc Cyro is way more fun, love that you keep it that way.

Is there a plan to reenable some sets that don't really proc but have conditions like Bright-Throat, New Moon...? I would really like to see that because this sets don't give "free" damage or heal; however, they give way more flexibility in building our setups.

Elyox

forthwinds wrote: »

Elyox wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same

I'm sorry but, who said that? Where, i need infos, I haven't seen anyone saying it's better on EU yet, in 3 weeks. Maybe NA, but that'd be usual since their server is just better o/

Nope NA got worse during during the tests and video evidence/detailed reports from a majority of AD's GMs on Gray Host were forwarded through a class rep straight to ZOS. I'm not sure where they are getting this false info from.

So they are just straight up imaging feedbacks. Great.
Well at least we can use 12 sets

xaraan

Wait, so literally all but like one set that drops in PvP is useless in pvp now? lol

Gilvoth

Nidhoeggr wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun. To that end, we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3.

Is there a plan to reenable some sets that don't really proc but have conditions like Bright-Throat, New Moon...? I would really like to see that because this sets don't give "free" damage or heal; however, they give way more flexibility in building our setups.

so, your saying new moon does not give free damage?

New Moon Acolyte

LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160

(2 items) 833 Weapon and Spell Critical
(3 items) 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(4 items) 1487 Physical and Spell Penetration
(5 items) Adds 401 Weapon and Spell Damage. Increase the cost of your active abilities by 5%.

and you are also saying bright throat does not give free damage?

Bright-Throat's Boast
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type Overland
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) While you have a drink buff active, your Maximum Magicka is increased by 2000 and Magicka Recovery by 167.

Seraphayel

I don’t know how to feel about this.

Making own builds with proc sets was very nice. The problem are the overly powerful or broken proc sets, especially when you’re using more than one at the same time.

I have two suggestions, maybe you could consider one of them before having proc set being useless for the next 6 months:

1. limit the amount of usable proc sets to 1 per player - having one proc set isn’t a problem. But having two or three at the same time is what ruined PvP.

2. give us campaigns and battlegrounds with and without proc sets being disabled. This would be way healthier for the mood of the community than to just remove an integral part from the game for such a long time.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

@ZOS_GinaBruno I'm really sad to see that despite provably worse performance the current test is being maintained. In addition to this all items available from new content won't be usable in Cyrodiil for more than 6 months, all the content previously purchased/sets collected are now worthless along with the whole Mythic system for PVP.

Quite frankly imo 6 months just isn't acceptable and I think you'll see a lot of agreement in the coming months as players realise that PVP will degrade into 1 or 2 laggy fights on the maps with disconnection upon arrival and unplayable performance as we have seen this test.

Would be really interested to actually see the data that caused you to make this decision.

Alucu

This is honestly such a lazy move. Forgetting about cyrodiil 7 months while 85% of the sets on this game cant be used. I agree zaan, Crimson, 50k hp stamdens and vateshran weapons galore are disgusting, but cmon, we cant even use new moon acolyte now.

Fischblut

When Update 29 launches on Monday for PC, we’ll be turning off double AP but proc sets will remain disabled as mentioned above. We appreciate the time everyone spent in Cyrodiil during these tests and all the feedback that’s been submitted.

But why do you have to end double AP? It was the only reason I went into Cyrodiil during this test (and I was so tired of "no-procs, all lag" that this current week I haven't even visited Cyrodiil)...

Yuke

I'll just leave this here



Im sure all of you smart people who think this is a good change, will have no problem figuring out who these stats belong to.

Seraphayel

Oh and what about arena weapons? They all become useless now for PvP or what? Or aren’t weapons affected by these changes and it’s only armor?

hands0medevil

Can we run another test please? No skills, no sets, no cosmetics, no NPCs just pure boxing and sieges. AP gains reduced to x0.5.

synnerman

jtclick wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for participating in this latest Cyrodiil test where we disabled all proc sets. Similar to what many of you have noted in your feedback, we found this test did not impact performance in a measurable amount; if anything, there was a very slight degradation of performance at times, likely due to a higher population of players in Cyrodiil.

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun. To that end, we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3. At that point, we will have implemented some new code so we can have more flexibility to campaign rulesets as it applies to proc sets. We’ll work on applying all this to consoles as well, and we’ll let you know when we have a date for this starting.

Now that we’ve had time to digest a lot of data and information, we have a better idea of next steps and the work needed to produce noticeable improvements to performance in Cyrodiil. This work is complex and will take a fair amount of time and effort. We are committed to improving the PvP experience, though, and we have already begun scheduling out this work. Please note that none of the scheduled work will implement any of the changes we made on PC during past tests, and at this time we don’t plan to run any additional tests.

When Update 29 launches on Monday for PC, we’ll be turning off double AP but proc sets will remain disabled as mentioned above. We appreciate the time everyone spent in Cyrodiil during these tests and all the feedback that’s been submitted.

I don’t think I’ve ever been angry or disappointed in ESO since I began playing at launch but this... this is very disappointing. This takes years of sets and grinding and throws it away. I’ve never even made a forum post before today.

Performance got worse, MUCH worse on the GH campaign. I’m not sure who had their feedback listened to but guilds have canceled runs in GH because the lag was so bad healers couldn’t get a skill off. I didn’t even have lag this bad at the height of Midyear Mayhem.

It’s less fun, healers are screwed, and it makes everything monotonous. I enjoy not knowing if someone has vicious death or a great monster helm. Sure it can be frustrating to be bombed but it’s also part of the unpredictability of cyrodill. I enjoy the chaos it creates because that’s what cyrodiil is supposed to be. Not Julianos vs Crafty Alfiq with no monster helm or master weapons. What’s the point of getting these exciting sets now?

Look, I know that everyone at ZOS is working their collective butts off to deliver quality content and amazing customer support during a pandemic. And I for one am insanely appreciative.

But this decision? To remove years of sets and hard work (not to mention gold mats) from PvP for months?

I’m so disappointed… very disappointed.

Ive been here for 7 years with the odd break and I totally agree. The sets regarded as proc sets in this cull is way too broad. Sets like Briarheart, clever alch etc should be reintroduced. The worst thing for me is to see Gina say there has actually been a performance drop ontop of what we endure (which we can all see anyway) and then say but because some say procless is better so we will add to a performance drop by keeping it as it is for 6-7 months then Im afriad thats it for me for the forseeable as I can't justifying the grind of CP's etc and the other changes to run around cyrodiil in very limited sets in WORSE performance.
I will enjoy the weekend at least

ganzaeso

Time to lock my wallet away

This was just supposed to be a test and it showed no or negative results, but because some players liked not having to deal with randomness you are keeping the test active?

What about your paying customers who only participated in the test because they thought it would be temporary?

I for one do not want to PvP with such a limited variety of sets. It will become boring very fast without variety. Why not just have us all fight without any equipment at all?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Please convince the design staff to follow the results of the test rather than a popular opinion that can not be verified.

Loralai_907

This is just silly lol.

In most of the things we see, you all encourage players to play ALL THE THINGS. We chase gear, and outfits, and skins, and furniture, and everything else. But, with this decision, you have just ensured ppl who primarily play in Cyro have literally no need to touch a dang thing outside of Cyro. They will have no need to buy future content, or run your dungeons, or participate in events even. You get that right?

And then, we have the whole you have this smol handful of sets you may use and that is all. Performance was not improved. As expected, ball groups adapted. I'm not sure I understand WHY we are just going to keep doing this until Q3. What is the expected outcome here? I'm not hearing about people being happy, ok like one person I know is happy but thats it. If the goal was to push people out of Cyro, this is probably a great start. Hey, don't have to worry about performance if 10 people total go out there lol

Gilvoth

please make us new sets to replace this.

The Uninvited

Seraphayel wrote: »

2. give us campaigns and battlegrounds with and without proc sets being disabled. This would be way healthier for the mood of the community than to just remove an integral part from the game for such a long time.

This right here! Then see where everybody moves to and you will have your true answer to what players want.

J18696

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for participating in this latest Cyrodiil test where we disabled all proc sets. Similar to what many of you have noted in your feedback, we found this test did not impact performance in a measurable amount; if anything, there was a very slight degradation of performance at times, likely due to a higher population of players in Cyrodiil.

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun. To that end, we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3. At that point, we will have implemented some new code so we can have more flexibility to campaign rulesets as it applies to proc sets. We’ll work on applying all this to consoles as well, and we’ll let you know when we have a date for this starting.

Now that we’ve had time to digest a lot of data and information, we have a better idea of next steps and the work needed to produce noticeable improvements to performance in Cyrodiil. This work is complex and will take a fair amount of time and effort. We are committed to improving the PvP experience, though, and we have already begun scheduling out this work. Please note that none of the scheduled work will implement any of the changes we made on PC during past tests, and at this time we don’t plan to run any additional tests.

When Update 29 launches on Monday for PC, we’ll be turning off double AP but proc sets will remain disabled as mentioned above. We appreciate the time everyone spent in Cyrodiil during these tests and all the feedback that’s been submitted.

I think leaving the procs disabled is a terrible idea it was cool at first and is a cool concept to work towards but 80% of people i know are currently tired of the no proc gimmick and are only playing atm due to double ap people are ready for things to return to normal the game is to poorly balanced for no procs to stay and pvp outside of prime time hours is a shell with people just standing around watching eachother not die in tank builds we need vicious death back to get rid of these faction blobs that can't die atm unless they get ran over by a larger blob

xaraan

forthwinds wrote: »

I don't know where you guys are getting this feedback, but the performance is absolutely terrible and there has been less of a population in cyrodiil. It wasn't even poplocked in Gray Host on Monday during primetime... Maybe it has to do with the fact that cross heals were re-enabled?

The fact that the developers and community team is so out of touch with their own game really makes me sad because this games pvp is something special when it works.

I can see a cross section of players who would be happy with this and most of them probably play the five effective builds that work well during the playtest already so it's nothing but a positive for them.

But that is the problem in itself, yea, you can tell how out of touch they are because they don't know what feedback is good and bad. We all see all sorts of feedback on the forums from the craziest ideas to genius ones and the devs don't seem to know the game well enough to know which is which.

The problem is that if you are not playing one of those five builds, usually on specific classes for the builds, then you and your class are useless in pvp now because they have done jack all to balance classes lately and that's super obvious when you pvp now.

Neophyte

Well that’s a kick in the nuts no double AP

Eclipse0990

@ZOS_GinaBruno Why are we going with another "behavioral change that we liked"? Wasn't the goal of this exercise gathering data to reduce the lag? As we have seen, re-introduction of cross heals and disabling of 90%+ sets in the game by classifying them as proc sets has just increased the lag and finally brought Cyrodiil PvP to turn based combat stage completely~
Personally, I'm fine with blocking proc sets. I have two issues:
1. Your current definition of proc sets is too general. Either some more sets must be allowed or give us new/upgraded sets for PvP so that we can have some diversity.
2. Tell us what you are going to do to reduce the lag? As it stands, we would take the proc sets lag over this current one. PvP is unplayable at prime times. And even at off hours, things don't really look that good.

mielyn

DEVS: This is a really bad idea to leave the proc sets disabled for so long. Here is why:

1. The recent INFLUX in activity in Cyrodiil is more likely due to the double AP, and NOT due to the testing. Once double AP is disabled, the numbers will start falling off again.
2. There is ZERO incentive for PVP players to buy the new expansion and give you more money.
3. The MARKET will crash for anyone who has relied on selling materials and goods which are strongly geared toward PVP. Not good.
4. The faction stacking (which has been HORRIBLE ever since you dropped from 24 to 12 man group sizes) is only going to get worse. (Unless the amount of players drops so much that there is no real viable PVP happening anyway.)
5. There is ZERO incentive for PVP players to go and farm gear, therefore, we will likely not be playing the game as much.
6. I for one have been paying for ESO Membership for years, but I will be cancelling this as, again, I have ZERO incentive to keep paying for content which does not benefit me in any way.
7. Since this did not improve performance, why on EARTH would you leave it this way?
8. (While I'm on this subject, why leave the group size at 12, for the same reason? These things did NOT fix the game. In many cases (by my own observation) they have made it worse and barely playable.)
9. And despite the crazy lag, people still continue to PVP. But by taking away a major and FUN aspect of PVP (24 man group size & proc sets), you are truly killing the motivation for dedicated PVP players to continue playing.

There are more reasons, but those are some of the initial MAJOR ones.

I'm listening to a group of dedicated PVP players right now, and seeing their reactions to this comment. The reactions are NOT good.

ZOS, you really should take a look at this and consider a different course. Don't kill this game off.

Nidhoeggr

Gilvoth wrote: »

Nidhoeggr wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun. To that end, we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3.

Is there a plan to reenable some sets that don't really proc but have conditions like Bright-Throat, New Moon...? I would really like to see that because this sets don't give "free" damage or heal; however, they give way more flexibility in building our setups.

so, your saying new moon does not give free damage?

New Moon Acolyte

LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160

(2 items) 833 Weapon and Spell Critical
(3 items) 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(4 items) 1487 Physical and Spell Penetration
(5 items) Adds 401 Weapon and Spell Damage. Increase the cost of your active abilities by 5%.

and you are also saying bright throat does not give free damage?

Bright-Throat's Boast
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type Overland
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) While you have a drink buff active, your Maximum Magicka is increased by 2000 and Magicka Recovery by 167.

I think you know what I mean. it’s just increases the stats, New Moon with a lot of cost. If that’s free dmg for you, then Crafty Alfiq and Hulking Draugr is free dmg as well.

I know that free is not the right word for it that’s why I wrote “free”. Sorry English is not my main language I don’t know a better description for those sets. But those are not Proc sets in the classical sense.

Emma_Overload

TwinLamps wrote: »

so malacath wont work for 6 more months?

Malacath is a proc set?

mielyn

One little follow up:

What you COULD do is make a "PROC" instance and a "NON-PROC" instance. That would satisfy BOTH crowds. Yeah?

Do is ZOS. Please.

ichsuisme

I would like more information about the decision to drastically increase the span of this, admittedly, failed test.

I ask because it’s odd that someone in charge has made a decision to stick with something that has been shown to not work.

Cyrodiil performance has been trash for the entire time I’ve been pvp’ ing. It’s always been one excuse or another. What’s going wrong behind the scenes?