Feb 15 Cyrodiil Test Details

Nidhoeggr

Gilvoth wrote: »

Nidhoeggr wrote: »

Gilvoth wrote: »

Nidhoeggr wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun. To that end, we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3.

Is there a plan to reenable some sets that don't really proc but have conditions like Bright-Throat, New Moon...? I would really like to see that because this sets don't give "free" damage or heal; however, they give way more flexibility in building our setups.

so, your saying new moon does not give free damage?

New Moon Acolyte

LEVEL 50 CHAMPION 160

(2 items) 833 Weapon and Spell Critical
(3 items) 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
(4 items) 1487 Physical and Spell Penetration
(5 items) Adds 401 Weapon and Spell Damage. Increase the cost of your active abilities by 5%.

and you are also saying bright throat does not give free damage?

Bright-Throat's Boast
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type Overland
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) While you have a drink buff active, your Maximum Magicka is increased by 2000 and Magicka Recovery by 167.

I think you know what I mean. it’s just increases the stats, New Moon with a lot of cost. If that’s free dmg for you, then Crafty Alfiq and Hulking Draugr is free dmg as well.

I know that free is not the right word for it that’s why I wrote “free”. Sorry English is not my main language I don’t know a better description for those sets. But those are not Proc sets in the classical sense.

you said those sets do not give free damage yet we see they clearly DO give Free Damage.
you see, heres the problem.
you guys claim that this is the reasoning as to why we cant have proc sets, yet you want your sets but we arent allowed our sets and the whole time you guys claim is because we are getting free damage yet your sets dont do the same thing, but in reality, they DO give you guys free damage exactly like our sets do.

and that is exactly what has brought us to todays developers decision, is because you guys claim OUR sets are BAD, but you guys sets are Good.

do you really assume I did not use proc sets? I used them as well. Almost everybody used them, if not for any other reason then because almost all monster sets are "real" proc sets. I'm totally fine with not reenabling any set. The only problem is: we don't have many different sets. I think those "half-proc" sets would not change much regarding playstyle but give way more possibilities. That's why I asked.

Pauls

Keep double AP or it will be the most BS decision you have made towards PVP

Seraphayel

Just enable one proc set at in PvP. So players can’t mix two or three at the same time. I think individual build variety will increase because there are a lot of very good proc sets. This will enforce variety in my opinion while fixing the biggest problem with the abuse of multiple proc sets.

Seraphayel

erio wrote: »

Cant we just disable the bad procs everyone hates and enable some. Like why is stuff like seducers disabled?

There is no bad proc sets. One proc set alone isn’t the issue, it’s using multiple proc sets at the same. One proc set enabled won’t make or break PvP, having two or three procs going off at once is the problem.

Jayserix

Szende wrote: »

[Quoted post removed]

[...]
They added a flanking mechanism to Nightblades, what i like as a playstyle. Makes me able a squishy but rather agility than "cloak" centered playstyle by adding sets and items like Stuhn and Wild hunt ring. It allowed me to play around flanking, agility and off-balance which really gave the "rouge" vibe i was looking for in the class. So it was a New moon-stuhn and wild hunt build. I spent some time, money on the DLC's, eso+ for having acces more variation of sets while been looking for build
[...]

And the ability to flank was removed with sets ? No it's still there.

Edit:typo

Capsaica

This is really unbelievable, except it shouldn't be, because I should be used to these kinds of decisions by now.

The lag has been worse ever since the introduction of the no proc tests. Noticeably worse on some nights, and only "just as bad" on others. Either way, bad is bad. In some ways, I have enjoyed the no proc gameplay because the number of players running the flavor of the month YouTuber's build in PvP was just irritating. That being said, those mostly had counters - even if it was just walking away. I liked seeing skilled (even if unbalanced) gameplay drive combat more, but not at the expense of game performance and options for playstyle. You know what I prefer over everything else? Not-as-bad lag. I mean, come on. This is a repeat of trying for unspecified behavioral changes from restricting healing outside of groups, except you are poised to lose even more players than before.

For me personally (I've played almost constantly since beta with no more than a 2 week break for my wedding), you are trashing the hundreds of hours I have spent farming gear to optimize the way I want to play in Cyrodiil. You are trashing the millions in gold that I have spent on improvement mats to gold out gear. You are trashing the hundreds of hours I have spent farming mats, doing writs, etc so that I can equip new gear every patch. You are trashing the fun that I have trying out new sets, new combinations and theorycrafting new ideas in order to utilize new gear and try new things. I expect a few gear sets to become irrelevant every patch or so, but to just take every PvP set and dumpster it is just astonishing.

You are trashing the thousands of dollars I have invested over the past 7 years to keep an active subscription and buy new chapters so that I have access to the new content. What good does my pre-order of the new chapter do for me? I can no longer use those sets for the playstyle that I enjoy most, I've just flushed money down the drain as far as I'm concerned. This is the most disappointed I think I have ever been with a decision impacting ESO. To think that I liked the concept of the test and was enthusiastic about it when it was first announced just makes me shake my head now.

Seraphaile

I would think the obvious next test would be to turn off all sets. Then the servers won't have to keep track of how many pieces of a set anyone wears. That should help minimise the calculations. At the same time stop allowing grouping in Cyro, and make all heal skills self only.

Araneae6537

Elyox wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Aruu wrote: »

So you completely acknowledge that the performance has been worse during these tests, yet keep them on? The whole point of these tests is to try to improve performance, NOT gameplay. Everyone says that gameplay would be fine if only there was no lag, and you decide to purposefully increase the lag.

Saying the lag is "likely due to a higher population in Cyrodil" is ridiculous because Cyrodil is always locked with queues anyway. Unless you've changed the max populations as yet another variable to keep track of during tests like you did with cross healing, this would make absolutely no difference.

Just like the last test where they didn't found compelling performance increase by disabling cross healing yet they kept that in game because they "like the change".

Note me down on this, cross healing is most likely why we have more lag now than before. it's been so much worth since it's back. They are just saying it doesn't affect performances like they are saying the performance is now only slightly worth when in fact the number of multicast required to get an ability off or the desync in health/position is so much worse now.

1) It’s not cross healing. I checked and my healing abilities target allies, not guild members or group members, allies. “Cross-healing” would be if my skills healed players of another faction.

2) Crippling healers improved nothing. I was in both Blackreach and Ravenwatch during that test and performance was the same or worse than what I experienced during MYM and the no proc test.

Anyway, I hope another solution can be found and everyone can play as they enjoy, whether that be in different campaigns or a compromise of some proc sets being added or a totally different solution.

Psiion

Greetings,

We have removed a few posts as they violated the Community Rules, mainly Bashing, and would like to remind everyone to keep conversation civil. We understand that everyone has their own opinions that they want to express, but we also want the forums to be a constructive platform for ESO and its community. We appreciate your understanding.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

lylanya

jtclick wrote: »

I don’t think I’ve ever been angry or disappointed in ESO since I began playing at launch but this... this is very disappointing. This takes years of sets and grinding and throws it away. I’ve never even made a forum post before today.

Performance got worse, MUCH worse on the GH campaign. I’m not sure who had their feedback listened to but guilds have canceled runs in GH because the lag was so bad healers couldn’t get a skill off. I didn’t even have lag this bad at the height of Midyear Mayhem.

It’s less fun, healers are screwed, and it makes everything monotonous. I enjoy not knowing if someone has vicious death or a great monster helm. Sure it can be frustrating to be bombed but it’s also part of the unpredictability of cyrodill. I enjoy the chaos it creates because that’s what cyrodiil is supposed to be. Not Julianos vs Crafty Alfiq with no monster helm or master weapons. What’s the point of getting these exciting sets now?

Look, I know that everyone at ZOS is working their collective butts off to deliver quality content and amazing customer support during a pandemic. And I for one am insanely appreciative.

But this decision? To remove years of sets and hard work (not to mention gold mats) from PvP for months?

I’m so disappointed… very disappointed.

This is 100% my sentiment. Well said. This change, even if temporary, is 7 MONTHS long and negates almost everything so many of us have worked so hard for. And on top of that, dropping the double AP... THAT is the only reason there was an influx of people in Cyro. It wasn't because of the no procs and people wanting to test it. It was because they're trying to go for their stars. Without double AP, at least there won't be faction stacks en masse, I guess... having 60 people fighting against our 12 man constantly was starting to be demoralizing. Also... please lift the 12 man group cap... if we're going to be forced to play in conditions which will cause so many people to leave, at least give us the ability to possibly put back together some of the guilds who died when they couldn't make a 24 man group... or at least up the group cap to 16 or 18... because a 4 man can't survive out there anymore. We appreciate that y'all are working so hard on all this stuff, but it feels like we're taking 3 steps forward and 1 step back in so many situations regarding Cyro.

Gilvoth

MirelaUmbrella wrote: »

ZOS_KageW wrote: »

Greetings,

We have removed a few posts as they violated the Community Rules, mainly Bashing, and would like to remind everyone to keep conversation civil. We understand that everyone has their own opinions that they want to express, but we also want the forums to be a constructive platform for ESO and its community. We appreciate your understanding.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

ZOS just bashed thousands of people

if the numbers are correct, then would that be actually in the "millions" not thousands?

StaticWave

LMAO at this point I really feel bad for ZOS. People literally COMPLAIN ABOUT EVERYTHING. First they complain about procs, then when ZOS disabled all procs including stat based procs, they complain about it. Like man there is just nothing that satisfies you guys lmao. If you want to quit, quit. It'll leave more room for people who genuinely appreciate a no proc cyrodiil environment. Yea we won't be able to use the stat sets we like, but who cares? PvP will be at its best state that it's ever been. And it's not like they're not gonna put in the work to re-enable some sets. They'll have to rework the coding and it takes time. Seriously, I can't stress enough how good this decision is. Finally I and many like-minded others can PvP without seeing a single proc on our death recap. Rejoice

Jayserix

StaticWave wrote: »

LMAO at this point I really feel bad for ZOS. People literally COMPLAIN ABOUT EVERYTHING. First they complain about procs, then when ZOS disabled all procs including stat based procs, they complain about it. Like man there is just nothing that satisfies you guys lmao. If you want to quit, quit. It'll leave more room for people who genuinely appreciate a no proc cyrodiil environment. Yea we won't be able to use the stat sets we like, but who cares? PvP will be at its best state that it's ever been. And it's not like they're not gonna put in the work to re-enable some sets. They'll have to rework the coding and it takes time. Seriously, I can't stress enough how good this decision is. Finally I and many like-minded others can PvP without seeing a single proc on our death recap. Rejoice

We can definitely agree on that !

Ackwalan

It's not proc sets killing the game, it's the lag.

MirelaUmbrella

StaticWave wrote: »

LMAO at this point I really feel bad for ZOS. People literally COMPLAIN ABOUT EVERYTHING. First they complain about procs, then when ZOS disabled all procs including stat based procs, they complain about it. Like man there is just nothing that satisfies you guys lmao. If you want to quit, quit. It'll leave more room for people who genuinely appreciate a no proc cyrodiil environment. Yea we won't be able to use the stat sets we like, but who cares? PvP will be at its best state that it's ever been. And it's not like they're not gonna put in the work to re-enable some sets. They'll have to rework the coding and it takes time. Seriously, I can't stress enough how good this decision is. Finally I and many like-minded others can PvP without seeing a single proc on our death recap. Rejoice

Yeah. That damn War Maiden and Seducer build. I hate seeing them on my death recap too

Sanguinor2

6 months of elder sorcs online is gonna be really nostalgic. Like the good old days minus 80% of class defining abilites on old classes.

Gilvoth

StaticWave wrote: »

LMAO at this point I really feel bad for ZOS. People literally COMPLAIN ABOUT EVERYTHING. First they complain about procs, then when ZOS disabled all procs including stat based procs, they complain about it. Like man there is just nothing that satisfies you guys lmao. If you want to quit, quit. It'll leave more room for people who genuinely appreciate a no proc cyrodiil environment. Yea we won't be able to use the stat sets we like, but who cares? PvP will be at its best state that it's ever been. And it's not like they're not gonna put in the work to re-enable some sets. They'll have to rework the coding and it takes time. Seriously, I can't stress enough how good this decision is. Finally I and many like-minded others can PvP without seeing a single proc on our death recap. Rejoice

do you play a sorcerer or a warden?
because those are the only 2 classes that will do Better in a no procset environment while all the rest of the classes will have serious problems in both survival /defenses and Damage Output.

erio

Please raise the number of sets allowed. You literally have a new cp system coming out, how are you going to limit us to 15 sets for that when it releases?

DemonNinja

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun.

WHAT?

1. Performance is NOT largely the same, from my perspective. It is the same or WORSE.
2. The removal of proc sets and the return of cross healing as only resulted in everyone forming one giant zerg and zerging around the map on both Grayhost and Blackreach. There is nothing enjoyable or fun about this in my opinion.

Please, I implore you, revert this test. Proc sets simply need an overhaul and re-balance, not a complete removal from the game.

(IF this delay is in order to re-evaluate and overhaul proc sets based on the new CP system, that is fine - but PLEASE COMMUNICATE that!)

Faded

StaticWave wrote: »

LMAO at this point I really feel bad for ZOS. People literally COMPLAIN ABOUT EVERYTHING. First they complain about procs, then when ZOS disabled all procs including stat based procs, they complain about it. Like man there is just nothing that satisfies you guys lmao. If you want to quit, quit. It'll leave more room for people who genuinely appreciate a no proc cyrodiil environment. Yea we won't be able to use the stat sets we like, but who cares? PvP will be at its best state that it's ever been. And it's not like they're not gonna put in the work to re-enable some sets. They'll have to rework the coding and it takes time. Seriously, I can't stress enough how good this decision is. Finally I and many like-minded others can PvP without seeing a single proc on our death recap. Rejoice

There was an unusual amount of REEEEE on the forums that this test happened at all. They couldn't have missed that, or not expected more of it, at least here.

Amazing.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

Zyva

I hate the test with no procs. I stopped played the last couple weeks and just took a break, hoping to come back when things went back to normal.

I dont like the crimson and harbinger cheese as much as most people, but you can walk away or counter it. I invested hours and countless amount of gold into my builds and ability to make sets. I enjoy playing with groups.

The performance during these tests were awful. worst ive ever seen. What is the point of leaving the procs off when the test was an admitted failure. You say people "liked it?" Who says? The small demographic of people that come onto the forums? Thats not everyone who plays pvp. And a lot of the reason people were IN cyrodil was because of double AP, not because they liked the test. Those people are going to be GONE when that double ap is gone. Often, even the main camp wasnt even locked. People were already beginning to leave by the end of that test, because of how awful the game is playing in there.

Fix the procs that were broken and abused, dont just blanket remove all proc sets. Do an actual survey of ALL pvp players who play cyro REGULALRY, as in, multiple hours each week and get honest feedback. Fix the problem. Fix the lag. The crashes, the rollbacks, the people who glitch out scrolls. Fix the hammer being bugged. Quit using the live server as a test guinea pig for extended periods of time. IT sucks for the players who love the game and want to actually use the things they paid money for. It makes us wonder what we are doing here.

Joy_Division

I won;t speak for anyone else, but when I said I enjoyed the gameplay without procs, I didn;t mean I want to go 6 months without access to 90% of the sets and having to now rely on overnerfed classes with over-neutered abilities for interesting gameplay.

It was more like a plea for classes and skills to once again exciting and effective options rather than putting on my vateshran destro and Zaan while being a stage one vampire and pretending that I'm a Templar.

If ZOS feels that eliminating 90% of the armor sets in the game will make it more interesting or that's what we wanted, then that's all that needs to be said just how over-nerfed and neutered class and skill options have become.

If I ever die to a solitary magicka Nightblade in the next 6 months, I will immediately log off because if I was actually engaged in the game and motivated to play my best, that would not happen without them using Calurrion's or some other proc set to make up for the gaping holes in their class kit. So while I might enjoy not having 4 proc sets on my death recap, this isn't addressing the deeper issues that plague PvP.

****

I honestly have no idea what ZOS plans on doing in the future because none of these tests have produced indisputable performance improvements and all of them involve upsetting a large part of the community. I think the approach here is all wrong. What possible test could ZOs come up with in September 2021 that will reduce server calculations more than no CP, group size 6, no cross heals, 3 second AoE cooldown, and ramping % cost increase - the last test from 2020 - which still did not generate the desired performance improvements? It's not. And if it does, it's going to be the proverbial cure is worse than the disease, making Cyrodiil so unfun to play that many people won't regardless.

No PvP developer has been hired to take Brian's spot since he's gone to combat. There's no way that he can possibly have that much responsibility for combat and still fulfill the function of an actual full time PvP developer, let alone a team that dedicated to improving and reforming PvP. I interpret this to mean that the only future updates we will ever have are subtractions, restrictions, and the removal of things we can do, since there are no dedicated PvP development that could add, improve, and diversify the PvP experience.

I still think the fundamental assumptions here are all wrong. The performance issues have deep - very deep - roots and I'm tired of hearing about theories that point to an increase in AoE spam, healing, actions per minute, or anything that suggests that we as players long ago just ran around occasionally using a skill but only recently have figured out ways overload the server with calculations. Way way back in the summer of 2014 - the infancy of ESO - I was in a PvP guild Tysm and on our homepage we had a document laying out how each of us were expected to play. It was stressed that every global cooldown we would hit a skill and the vast majority of those were AoE in nature. Every second! This is 2014. When the skills we did use were far more multifaceted, the deer were in cyrodiil, the game kept track of dynamic ultimate, when population caps were much higher, and years before most of the "this should reduce server calculation and improve performance" patch notes changes ever saw the light of day. I don;t even want to think how many calculations the better guilds like Alacrity were putting on the server. Yet, somehow, even though this involved computer technology that limited me to 10 minute Youtube videos that took hours to upload, the performance in Cyrodiil was markedly better.

I could very well be mistaken in my assumptions here. But in the 7 years I have been playing this game, I have seen no communication, data, or explanation that would lead me to believe some alternative explanation better explains why Cyrodiil's performance has declined.

vesselwiththepestle

Please add a proc-set-campaign for us who don't want to play Sorc or who just like to theorycraft or wear our sets we spent hours and hours to farm... TY.

WiredandTired

I'm not sure this is a great idea to be honest. I dislike this PVP meta, but I do not dislike how a wider range of possible gear combinations and theorycrafting was available for all players. Procs and non-proc sets should be competitive with each other, not in the state where it is now where its clearly more advantageous to stack Malacath, procs, heavy armor, along with overpowered classes like Warden and Necro. Most reasonable folks were advocating for procs to be BALANCED rather than completely banned. There have been numerous threads and feedback provided to fix this problem to improve get to a healthier more enjoyable gameplay experience. This keeping of the no proc tests seems like just another blunt instrument to try to fix problems, but in reality doesn't address the CORE problems that folks are begging to be be addressed. I would rather you have toned down the damage on proc sets, nerfed Malacath by not letting it stack with procs or nerfing the % bonus, and make much needed balance changes to underperforming or clearly overperforming classes/skills and abilities. Given how poorly the performance fixes have proceeded to roll out, I don't think class balancing will ever be addressed for folks that do not play the strongest classes right now.

erio

Seraphayel wrote: »

erio wrote: »

Cant we just disable the bad procs everyone hates and enable some. Like why is stuff like seducers disabled?

There is no bad proc sets. One proc set alone isn’t the issue, it’s using multiple proc sets at the same. One proc set enabled won’t make or break PvP, having two or three procs going off at once is the problem.

How is something like seducers bad? Simple answer, its not.
Again, Why is zos disabling all but 15 sets when the new CP system ALL ABOUT DIVERSTITY AND CHOICE is coming out.

Vyseman

i realy hope you do a new Campaign with old Proc Cyrodiil. Cuz without ANY procs, only magsorcs are playable

eternalshockcable

Let's just be real. You want to fix cyrodiil for real??

The game pulls in 500 million dollars a year annually.

Time to be real and just upgrade the servers.

What I can tell you is that proc sets are not the issue.

It's 7 year old game servers that are the issue

It's players using lag switches but you won't upgrade the servers to actually be able to tell the difference.
It's not having game masters like every other mmo out.


Its focusing only on pve and putting out yearly content instead of upgrading quality of life witin cyrodiil because only a fraction of the community pvp's; because that's the new norm or mmo's keeping things on life support and not improving them.

Azurya

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for participating in this latest Cyrodiil test where we disabled all proc sets. Similar to what many of you have noted in your feedback, we found this test did not impact performance in a measurable amount; if anything, there was a very slight degradation of performance at times, likely due to a higher population of players in Cyrodiil.

We’ve heard from a lot of you that despite performance largely being the same, disabling proc sets has breathed new life into PvP gameplay and has made fights more enjoyable and fun. To that end, we’ll be leaving proc sets disabled until Update 31 launches in Q3. At that point, we will have implemented some new code so we can have more flexibility to campaign rulesets as it applies to proc sets. We’ll work on applying all this to consoles as well, and we’ll let you know when we have a date for this starting.

really??? so until 3Q no proc sets........ can you pls disable those disguisting sorcs too then pls, because their skills procs all the time and it is not funny anymore.
So please, if you keep my proc-sets disabled, then disable pls also procing skills and ultis all the same, THX

Leslik

IMO every base game crafted set should be enabled. How the hell are we going to get any new players into pvp when new players have almost nothing to work with.

We're complaining about having only 18 sets to choose from. A new player has only 3

Zos even though I personally am in the no proc sets camp 6 months is too long and the set diversity is far too small. You need to meet us in the middle

Jayserix

erio wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

erio wrote: »

Cant we just disable the bad procs everyone hates and enable some. Like why is stuff like seducers disabled?

There is no bad proc sets. One proc set alone isn’t the issue, it’s using multiple proc sets at the same. One proc set enabled won’t make or break PvP, having two or three procs going off at once is the problem.

How is something like seducers bad? Simple answer, its not.
Again, Why is zos disabling all but 15 sets when the new CP system ALL ABOUT DIVERSTITY AND CHOICE is coming out.

He never said Seducer was bad.