Feb 15 Cyrodiil Test Details

techyeshic

mook-eb16_ESO wrote: »

Am right in saying that after you dodge roll a check message is sent back to the client to tell it its been completed, or mitigated certain attacks .. at high server load afters I dodge roll my skills go out and some times they don't light back up for up to 4 seconds at extremes. or is something else going on ??

We can't even be updated a week+ in the test of what they're seeing, planning, or thinking. Doubt we'll get details

Feaky

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

Flangdoodle wrote: »

Turning off proc sets has made no difference whatsoever- and might have somehow actually made the lag/crashes worse. We crash every time we get to a keep where a large scale battle is happening. When we arrive at the outer walls half the group is kicked offline.

I'd like to see a test where they turn off all add-ons.

Aren't add ons more of a client side thing, allegedly? Might be a good idea though.

Apparently not. Addons like RDX and the custom private addons some ball groups like Drac use optimize gameplay across the group by providing collaboration on ultimates and other group oriented abilities. To provide this type of functionality, I would suspect they are communicating with the server. While I am no expert on addons, I recall reading a thread on this last year. (see Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO response in this thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6596374#Comment_6596374)

Personally, I have a hard time with this myself as it does seem like people are using third party software to automate some aspects of gameplay, in this case group collaboration, that would otherwise need to be done manually. I'm sure you could make the case for many other addons, but it seems that success depends on as much IT knowledge than ESO gaming skills.

techyeshic

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_SarahHecker Whoever may possibly be listening. Lag has gotten worse since you started the testing and each day since it gets even worse. I hate procs with a passion. I have argued with guildies about how terrible I think procs are; but enough is enough. Something you did when you turned this on has gone horribly wrong. I don't know how; but it is.

Faded

Starshadw wrote: »

Faded wrote: »

Meh. The big fights are fun. Win or lose, they've always been fun. Devs can do whatever they want with AP rewards, people are going where the fun is. They're also the most easily accessible kind of fight, you look at the map and head for the action. You don't need a guild, a group leader, or even a common language, just go fight.

In typical ZOS fashion they'll intentionally make fun things less fun to "create interesting choices" but when they remove that essential and unique bit of the Cyro experience, they kill the thing they're trying to save. I hope they'll take care to avoid that. It's already pretty bad with the population cap so low.

Gameplay didn't break Cyrodiil and changes to gameplay won't fix it. It's depressing to see the game get so warped trying to work around technical failures.

Sure, the big fights are fun - but there's a reason that you'll find people just staying at Sej or Nikel, despite the fact that another alliance is running around taking most of the rest of their territory - and it's not just because "big fights are fun." Going to counter the ones taking keeps would give one a "big fight," but it would mean leaving the one location (and potentially losing a juicy d-tick), and losing AP during the time spent traveling, etc. So no, I don't believe it's just the fun aspect that keep people hanging around one or two locations instead of moving around more on the map.

Oh, them.

backs away from thread

Jaraal

techyeshic wrote: »

We can't even be updated a week+ in the test of what they're seeing, planning, or thinking. Doubt we'll get details

Apparently they haven't even decided on the next step after over a week in. Not a good sign.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

At this time, we are planning for this test to run for at least 3 weeks, and will let everyone know when we have next steps locked in.

D0RID0RI240

techyeshic wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_SarahHecker Whoever may possibly be listening. Lag has gotten worse since you started the testing and each day since it gets even worse. I hate procs with a passion. I have argued with guildies about how terrible I think procs are; but enough is enough. Something you did when you turned this on has gone horribly wrong. I don't know how; but it is.

They are not listening, hope that helps. This test was not for our benefit, it was not really for them to collect data. This was to buy some more time for the next "really guys, we are prioritizing server performance in Cyrodiil" speech with assorted platitudes and dolling out of more slop and we will all gobble it up. Add a few more flashy eye candy sets and crown offerings while the two DLC classes remain hilariously OP and nerf the original 4 classes further in the name of whatever a certain former content creator dev calls balance.

Cyrodiil has turned into a sunk cost fallacy for all of us.

vesselwiththepestle

Feaky wrote: »

Personally, I have a hard time with this myself as it does seem like people are using third party software to automate some aspects of gameplay, in this case group collaboration, that would otherwise need to be done manually.

It is ZOS' decision to allow said collaborations be run through addons, so it is not against TOS regarding third party software like you seem to imply. Also group collaboration isn't a part of the game which is automated. You can't tell via the game to another player, that your ultimate is ready - you would have to use a voice chat, for example. If we were talking about automation of aspects of gameplay, Lazy Writ Crafter (which automates crafting) and some addons more like that would be greater contestants. So I would be careful where you go with a point like that. Additionally I'd like to point out like many others before, that console does not have addons and they aren't running exactly at peak performance. Only ZOS knows, though, how console server capacity compares to PC server capacity. Maybe they run on 20% of the server capacity...

Joy_Division

Starshadw wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Another thing that makes me skeptical was the announcement during the reveal that ZOs is getting new servers - FINALLY - but somehow this is not expected to have an impact on performance. Wut? Is the equipment being downgraded? Does this mean the brunt of our complaints - the server - has been misdirected all this time? Is it the coding/programming that is the issue here? If so, how exactly is it even possible to address that without reprograming the entire game? If new servers aren't expected to fix the lag, and we already know all these restricted tests didn't either, that doesn't inspire confidence.

Since it doesn;t look like the capacity for increase server calculations is never going to happen (I dunno why; when ESO launched I had a flip phone and Youtube restricted me to 10 minute videos that took hours to upload), I think it would be better served to try and spread out the calculations we do put on the server, that is, not have everyone at the same spot during the same time. Again we have 7 years of player behavior as a guide: we stood in ques of over 100+ people just to join the laggiest default CP campaign even though the game played reasonably well in the other campaigns that had openings. Let's not kid ourselves, our behavior is not going to change as long as the map, rewards system, AvAvA routines stay as they were in 2014. There has to be interesting and engaging reasons to use the 85% of the map we ignore and there aren't any. We need permanent compelling reasons to go off the beaten path, that have fights, potential rewards, and just have interesting things to do. This way, at least the calculations are spread out with regard to distance and time, and thus the potential to avoid imposing restrictive gameplay features we don;t like and no need to redesign entire classes just so they can function in PvP setting that's going to be very different from what these classes were originally designed for.

First, I agree with all of the first part of your post - those of us who have been around from the beginning remember all of the many things that have been tried over the years. We had AOE caps, then no AOE caps, we've had new skills introduced that were supposed to be ball-group busters to discourage ball groups because of the performance hit they cause (and which every single time, simply turned into something the ball groups themselves used). I think at this point, we've gone through just about every iteration possible.

But in terms of the argument of "we need reasons to not pile up in one place and ignore the rest of the map and that would help" - they've already done that. Multiple times. It hasn't helped. The now-destroyable milegates and bridges, the three capturable towns, the addition of the extra outposts - again and again, they've added other locations intended to draw players out to other objectives. And it's never drawn enough folks away. Yes, solo folks and small groups will go off and capture towns or outposts, resources, etc. But most players still pile up at one or two objectives.

No one's gonna like what I'm about to say - but one of the big reasons a lot of folks stay where the big fights are is... AP. AP and the desire to earn it is part of what's killing Cyrodiil. Folks want to stay where the big AP gains are. Second? Folks want to be where the fights are. PvDooring is looked down upon and laughed at - and it doesn't earn anyone anywhere near the amount of AP a good fight does,. which goes back to the AP gain motivation.

The thing is asking us nicely to spread out, putting gear that will be relevant for one patch on sale at a town, and making a bridge destroyable aren't reasons for me to change my Cyrodiil routine and don't all of a sudden make going all the way to Cropsford an enjoyable experience.

If there were lootable supply carts that periodically appeared going from keep to keep, strategic resources that actually had harvestable materials (like a Columbine farm or something), an Alliance required constant replenishment of a capturable resource/substance/daedric stuff, if there were lootable respawning AP/relic/Tel Var caches, etc., people might do something other than looking at there map inside Arrius keep waiting for crossed swords to appear on the map. Of course, this would require ZOS to devote some manpower and resources in an attempt to improve and reform their product, but this could have and should have been done years ago and with the sheer amount of entire zones they built with meticulous detail (the Murkmires, Elswyrs, Western Skyrims, Blackreaches, Wrothgars, Vvardenfells, etc.), it's something that could easily be done if the commitment was there.

Of course I stay with the big fights for the AP; there's nothing else to do in Cyrodiil.

Jaraal

Joy_Division wrote: »

Of course I stay with the big fights for the AP; there's nothing else to do in Cyrodiil.

And of course there's even more clumping and people standing around in keeps during the test, since it's a lot harder/takes longer to do resources with the drop in DPS. Solos, duos, and very small groups are getting zerged by keep squatters before the resource flag flips. And nobody's hopping from keep to keep looking for stuff to repair as usual, since that doesn't pay double AP. Towns are deserted because the dailies don't provide double AP. So now there are more marginal players standing around on walls and roofs waiting for D ticks, or staring at the map waiting for lit keeps to ride to and get in the front door before the flip.

VirtualElizabeth

Feaky wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

Flangdoodle wrote: »

Turning off proc sets has made no difference whatsoever- and might have somehow actually made the lag/crashes worse. We crash every time we get to a keep where a large scale battle is happening. When we arrive at the outer walls half the group is kicked offline.

I'd like to see a test where they turn off all add-ons.

Aren't add ons more of a client side thing, allegedly? Might be a good idea though.

Apparently not. Addons like RDX and the custom private addons some ball groups like Drac use optimize gameplay across the group by providing collaboration on ultimates and other group oriented abilities. To provide this type of functionality, I would suspect they are communicating with the server. While I am no expert on addons, I recall reading a thread on this last year. (see Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO response in this thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6596374#Comment_6596374)

Personally, I have a hard time with this myself as it does seem like people are using third party software to automate some aspects of gameplay, in this case group collaboration, that would otherwise need to be done manually. I'm sure you could make the case for many other addons, but it seems that success depends on as much IT knowledge than ESO gaming skills.

Those addons seem a bit sketch to me. We might as well be running BOTS!

@ZOS_BrianWheeler, @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_SarahHecker any thoughts on the above add on?

Ringod123

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

Feaky wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

Flangdoodle wrote: »

Turning off proc sets has made no difference whatsoever- and might have somehow actually made the lag/crashes worse. We crash every time we get to a keep where a large scale battle is happening. When we arrive at the outer walls half the group is kicked offline.

I'd like to see a test where they turn off all add-ons.

Aren't add ons more of a client side thing, allegedly? Might be a good idea though.

Apparently not. Addons like RDX and the custom private addons some ball groups like Drac use optimize gameplay across the group by providing collaboration on ultimates and other group oriented abilities. To provide this type of functionality, I would suspect they are communicating with the server. While I am no expert on addons, I recall reading a thread on this last year. (see Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO response in this thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6596374#Comment_6596374)

Personally, I have a hard time with this myself as it does seem like people are using third party software to automate some aspects of gameplay, in this case group collaboration, that would otherwise need to be done manually. I'm sure you could make the case for many other addons, but it seems that success depends on as much IT knowledge than ESO gaming skills.

Those addons seem a bit sketch to me. We might as well be running BOTS!

@ZOS_BrianWheeler, @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_SarahHecker any thoughts on the above add on?

@ them as much as you want, they will still blatantly ignore anything like this and bury their head in the sand like they always do. Now if you had @'ed them about how brilliant they are and how amazing their game is, you would have a reponse in minutes.

Zabagad

I like to have a test with no grouping at all. Even better - without buff/heal to other ppl.
Ofc. not many ppl would like to play in such a Cyro regulary, but just as a test to find out how the performance would be.
I'm pretty sure it would be much better!

In my opinion this kind of test would make more sence then a third week of the actual setting where we got all information since several days...

Alendrin

I imagine this has been said, but playing on full servers during prime time, the performance is much worse than it was before midyear mayhem, which was the last time I did such a thing. I gave it a couple nights. I don't know if this is the reversion of the cross healing or not; what else could it be?

As one example, I stood near bleakers with fighting nearby and cast harness magicka 20 times, all 20 times the skill failed in the middle of the animation.

Game-play is much more fun than proc-tank meta on the lower population servers though!

Starshadw

Alendrin wrote: »

I imagine this has been said, but playing on full servers during prime time, the performance is much worse than it was before midyear mayhem, which was the last time I did such a thing. I gave it a couple nights. I don't know if this is the reversion of the cross healing or not; what else could it be?

As one example, I stood near bleakers with fighting nearby and cast harness magicka 20 times, all 20 times the skill failed in the middle of the animation.

Game-play is much more fun than proc-tank meta on the lower population servers though!

I think performance may be worse because we're now actually able to have more people in one location than previously. I think many of us got used to just avoiding big battles, and we're not doing that anymore - we're actually putting more bodies in one location....which actually means the test was kinda successful, in a strange way.

VirtualElizabeth

Ringod123 wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

Feaky wrote: »

VirtualElizabeth wrote: »

Flangdoodle wrote: »

Turning off proc sets has made no difference whatsoever- and might have somehow actually made the lag/crashes worse. We crash every time we get to a keep where a large scale battle is happening. When we arrive at the outer walls half the group is kicked offline.

I'd like to see a test where they turn off all add-ons.

Aren't add ons more of a client side thing, allegedly? Might be a good idea though.

Apparently not. Addons like RDX and the custom private addons some ball groups like Drac use optimize gameplay across the group by providing collaboration on ultimates and other group oriented abilities. To provide this type of functionality, I would suspect they are communicating with the server. While I am no expert on addons, I recall reading a thread on this last year. (see Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO response in this thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6596374#Comment_6596374)

Personally, I have a hard time with this myself as it does seem like people are using third party software to automate some aspects of gameplay, in this case group collaboration, that would otherwise need to be done manually. I'm sure you could make the case for many other addons, but it seems that success depends on as much IT knowledge than ESO gaming skills.

Those addons seem a bit sketch to me. We might as well be running BOTS!

@ZOS_BrianWheeler, @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_SarahHecker any thoughts on the above add on?

@ them as much as you want, they will still blatantly ignore anything like this and bury their head in the sand like they always do. Now if you had @'ed them about how brilliant they are and how amazing their game is, you would have a reponse in minutes.

Honestly I think they look more for trends rather than reply to individual @thingamajigs

Togal

Maybe ESO should have disabled cross healing as well as all the proc sets.

Merllow

All this was done in order to assess the combat balance without procs. And performance is a cover.

Env_t

@ZOS_GinaBruno hello, can you clarify when this test will over?

vesselwiththepestle

At this point I hope for a test week with no guards in Cyrodiil.

NeillMcAttack

techyeshic wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_SarahHecker Whoever may possibly be listening. Lag has gotten worse since you started the testing and each day since it gets even worse. I hate procs with a passion. I have argued with guildies about how terrible I think procs are; but enough is enough. Something you did when you turned this on has gone horribly wrong. I don't know how; but it is.

Cross healing was disabled prior to this round of testing. Now it is turned back on, as such, performance is much worse. They will say it doesn’t have a significant effect on performance. They are lying!

Druid40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmHZMiohXVM&t=85s

01:25

Faded

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

At this point I hope for a test week with no guards in Cyrodiil.

No grass. All those server checks to see if the grass is still there are causing lag. Also no harvest nodes having to query the server if its ok to respawn yet.

It's not bad code or hardware held together with rubber bands it's that things keep happening in Cyrodiil.

Jaraal

Faded wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

At this point I hope for a test week with no guards in Cyrodiil.

No grass. All those server checks to see if the grass is still there are causing lag.

I have grass turned off in settings. Doesn't help the lag.

Faded

Jaraal wrote: »

Faded wrote: »

vesselwiththepestle wrote: »

At this point I hope for a test week with no guards in Cyrodiil.

No grass. All those server checks to see if the grass is still there are causing lag.

I have grass turned off in settings. Doesn't help the lag.

Maybe it's the water?

LarsS

Each weekend the lagg increases, I guess due to more players on the megaserver, since cyro is full the whole week.

So the man problem seems to be server capacity.

relentless_turnip

LarsS wrote: »

Each weekend the lagg increases, I guess due to more players on the megaserver, since cyro is full the whole week.

So the man problem seems to be server capacity.

Cyrodill is on its own server and so is each of its campaigns. I think there is an argument for how efficiently it communicates with the neighbouring servers on the megaserver whilst players are in cyrodill. There is a definite difference between prime time pop lock and pop lock the rest of the time.

LarsS

relentless_turnip wrote: »

LarsS wrote: »

Each weekend the lagg increases, I guess due to more players on the megaserver, since cyro is full the whole week.

So the man problem seems to be server capacity.

Cyrodill is on its own server and so is each of its campaigns. I think there is an argument for how efficiently it communicates with the neighbouring servers on the megaserver whilst players are in cyrodill. There is a definite difference between prime time pop lock and pop lock the rest of the time.

No the cyro campaigns are only instances on the megaserver, like any other region.

Tigor

End of the month. Overall performance has improved. Being part of the test gives directions for future changes.
Keep on fighting.

SgtNuttzmeg

The lag is definitely still present. This test hasn't really improved performance that much. I have started to notice that position desyncs are getting worse. Conal AOE skills consistently miss their targets. It's really bad with dawnbreakers and cleaves.

That being said a lot of older players that had left the game have come back for these tests. The biggest take away from these tests is not that proc sets cause lag but rather despite the continued existence of performance issues the PvP community significantly prefers a version of ESO combat that has a stronger emphasis on balance.

If you want the PvP community to grow and to thrive balance is just as important as performance.

relentless_turnip

LarsS wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

LarsS wrote: »

Each weekend the lagg increases, I guess due to more players on the megaserver, since cyro is full the whole week.

So the man problem seems to be server capacity.

Cyrodill is on its own server and so is each of its campaigns. I think there is an argument for how efficiently it communicates with the neighbouring servers on the megaserver whilst players are in cyrodill. There is a definite difference between prime time pop lock and pop lock the rest of the time.

No the cyro campaigns are only instances on the megaserver, like any other region.

Nope, Google it👍 megaserver is the name
for the technology of linking servers together. Other games make you choose a server ESO decided to do this. It was big gaming news during its production.

Cyrodill is on its own server they stated this before on the forums.