Incapacitating Strike Silence 5.0.3

Sanguinor2

Wolfahm wrote: »

You understand it takes time to CC break right? 1 roll dodge and you are in the clear .. if you main a magsorc and you are losing 1v1 to a NB you need to reevaluate your build.

It does take time to CC break but does it usually take you 3 seconds? Also I main a magtemplar (no not a heavy armor healbot but a light armor Damage build) so you really dont Need to tell me how magsorcs loosing to nbs is a l2p issue (also relevant fun fact for you, stamblade won the most recent duel Tournament against a magsorc so Maybe you have some l2ping to do).

CompM4s

They really didn't think this through...

Spizzie

Perhaps the biggest example of bias for StamBlades is that they can spec entirely for damage, not wearing a single defensive or sustain set, and still have some of the best damage mitigation of any class in the entire game.

Changing Sorc shields to require Impen, investment in resistances, and a cap on Damage shield size was entirely reasonable because when I played on my Magsorc, I never had to worry about anything other than getting my Magicka pool as large as possible. You couldn't crit my shields, your penetration didn't matter, and striving for 1 bonus (Max Mag) helped both my damage and my defense. Now I have to wear impen, focus on my resistances, etc. It's far healthier than before (albeit, still not perfect).

But Stamblades? They can roll dodge 3 straight times without even blinking, and then alternate between roll dodge and cloak when the roll dodge cost stack gets up there. On my Stamblade, I don't have to invest in mitigation at all because 1 ability stops anyone from targeting me, stops all current DoTs from damaging me, and guarantees that my Vigor HoT's and my next Rally are all crit heals. There is no need to invest in damage mitigation because shadowy disguise gives me all the mitigation I need. There are multiple obvious solutions to this:

1. Allow DoTs to continue to damage while in cloak. They're invisible, why should they also be invulnerable?
2. If you're going to continue to suppress DoTs, then also suppress HoT's.
3. Don't allow every heal to be a crit while in stealth. Is this just a coding issue that the dev team is too lazy to solve?

Any of those would be enormous balance changes that would force Stamblades to think about how to become tougher to kill. Right now all I need to do is alternate roll dodge and cloak until my absurdly cheap ultimate comes back and then I can cloak>surprise attack>incap>execute. And I'll get that back up again in less than 30 seconds.

Sanguinor2

Bosov wrote: »

Reported for hate speech and trying to stop me from voicing my opinion. This is Tamriel and not North Korea

Merely making a Suggestion, I´m not stopping you from doing anything since I do not have the power to do so.

J18696

usmcjdking wrote: »

Why is there so much focus and attention going onto a class that is not only 5 years old, but spent the last few years reigning supreme and/or competitive in PVE & PVP.

You've got entire specs that are borderline dead. You've got classes that ARE dead.

How is the stealthy invisible rogue tankier than the Paladin? Why does the Paladin have worse healing than the fire breathing Dragonknight.

?????????????????????

Whatever vision you have for classes is not in tune with consumer expectations are - not only that they aren't in tune with any expectations you've given us.

Not only that atlas but the brand new class they worked on you know the unfinished one feels like it's getting less attention in it's own patch than that 5 year old class

Azaduur

Spizzie wrote: »

Azaduur wrote: »

Silence is strong I agree, but when I read things like "don't discuss counterplay" all I see is "dont make me work to stay alive, just remove what will make my life difficult so that i dont have to deal with it myself." It makes it really hard to take seriously, I doubt theyll keep the silence on incap, they responded really quick to the outrage, i dont know what theyll do, there is only going to be one more round of changes before Elsweyr goes live. Really I'm just glad they got rid of Minor Mangle. I'd have traded Minor Mangle for this new "Reave" feature any day of the week, didn't need to silence in place of stun though, guess we'll see how it goes.

Your inexperience on a Magicka character is blatant. There is no "working to stay alive" when you're silenced. Here are the options to stay alive when you're on a mag player and you're silenced:

1. Become unsilenced

That's it. There is literally no alternative. It'd be like telling a Stam character that in addition to having your heals and attacks unusable for 3 seconds, you also can't roll dodge or block. Funny enough, stamblades are probably the only class that -could- survive that because they can just cloak for the duration. The bias for stamblades in this game is absolutely gross, and I say that from the perspective of somebody who plays mag and stam iterations of every class.

Nightblades can cloak while silenced? I never knew...my magika experience is poor though as you have stated. Ill take your word for it and cloak while silenced from now on.

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos

Wolfahm wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

I think incap should be a aoe too so i could silence everyone who is complaining about this change at the same time.
Why is negate the only aoe silence in the game anyway? Doesnt sound fair to me... aoe silence incap does sound fair to me.
Just an idea... but remember, if i dont get what i want i will cancel my eso+!

Cant you uninstall the game instead and never enter a discussion About Combat balance again?

Wolfahm wrote: »

you just described all other types of CC.
How about we just revert all the pointless nerfs to NB in the 1st place caused by the tears of the same people that are crying about silence right now?

Nope we didnt describe all other types of cc because you can break cc´s but not the silence, well Maybe YOU cant break cc but that doesnt Change cc being breakable.
Also nice to see that you dont even realize your class is getting big buffs (for PvP that is) if the changes go live as they are Right now. What was that that you said in this or another thread About magsorc mains not recognizing their PvP Status? Seems like you cant do so for your main class either.

You understand it takes time to CC break right? 1 roll dodge and you are in the clear .. if you main a magsorc and you are losing 1v1 to a NB you need to reevaluate your build.

not sure if serious

Bosov

Minalan wrote: »

At least they saved me the trouble of buying their expansion.

Now I can unsubscribe too. Done!

Zenimax Online Studios is a great studio. You are not giving them any money by not buying the chapter and not giving them any money because you unsub BUT they will give you this change for free!

That is very nice of them.

Elong

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Forums right now... every one is like "panic mode on" .
Have any one actually tested it on PTS ? How does it work and feel ?

Oh and sorry but... but... I have to... I just have to:

^ This is literally how I felt some patches ago, and 2 patches ago and last patch. And I was told exactly what. To L2P.
Are those changes really that bad that ppl simply refuse to even hear of this ????

Could you please explain how a mag player will adapt and overcome with only being able to light attack for 3 secs?

CatchMeTrolling

This patch is just weird because it’s suppose to be the patch where there’s more focus on skills rather than class skills but somehow there’s been several class skill changes. The only problem is a good amount is unnecessary and the specs that could use something didn’t get anything.

Silver_Strider

Commancho wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

All the complaining about Incap being OP with its Defile/Stun components. Little did the salt miner know, ZOS can always make the ability 1000000% more OP when they try and nerf it.
I'm having a good laugh at this.

High direct damage, Defile, Stun, 20% more damage against target. That's all for 70 Ultimate. Very balanced.

No, stun was only applicable at 120 Ultimate, not 70 but you're still complaining about it despite the fact this version is 1000% stronger since there's 0 counterplay to it at all. Even then, the stun was irrelevant since any competent NB would Fear you beforehand since they need to in order to avoid the target from dodging it since a dodged Incap meant 70-120 ultimate was wasted, on top of losing all the benefits it brought with it. You can survive a defile, it doesn't stop half the playerbase from using their abilities in order to fight/survive. Silence, DOES stop all forms of magic from being used at all meaning its infinitely worse than the original iteration you are STILL complaining about.

So tell me, would you rather have gotten hit with a defile+stun, in which you have a chance to survive or would you rather just e/playdead when you get hit with a Silence?

Bosov

Elong wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Forums right now... every one is like "panic mode on" .
Have any one actually tested it on PTS ? How does it work and feel ?

Oh and sorry but... but... I have to... I just have to:

^ This is literally how I felt some patches ago, and 2 patches ago and last patch. And I was told exactly what. To L2P.
Are those changes really that bad that ppl simply refuse to even hear of this ????

Could you please explain how a mag player will adapt and overcome with only being able to light attack for 3 secs?

Use a invis pot. Roll dodge. Swap to sword and shield/ice staff bar and hold block. Group up with 23 other people and have them heal you for those 3 seconds.... log out.

So many options!

D0PAMINE

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

Wings lost reflect because of counter play issues. Then you add silence to another skill?

Wolfahm

It should have never even been changed in the 1st place.

TheNightflame

Just remember guys, when they revert it, it's not the time for us to be proud of them, they still were I-don't-know-what enough to make this change (and not make other needed changes)

Sandman929

TheNightflame wrote: »

Just remember guys, when they revert it, it's not the time for us to be proud of them, they still were I-don't-know-what enough to make this change (and not make other needed changes)

I'm still in the "can't believe they ever suggested it" phase.

Aelakhaii_De_Mythos

Sandman929 wrote: »

TheNightflame wrote: »

Just remember guys, when they revert it, it's not the time for us to be proud of them, they still were I-don't-know-what enough to make this change (and not make other needed changes)

I'm still in the "can't believe they ever suggested it" phase.

i feel like that red shirt dude at blizzcon 2018, late april joke or something

wtf is going on ....

fred4

I have now cancelled ESO+. It's a kneejerk reaction, I know, but this change making it onto the PTS and their continued inability to fix the Cyro lag on live have pushed me. It was time. I know this may get fixed within a week, if not sooner. At the same time I can only shake my head at how out of touch and incompetent ZOS are at their worst.

Morgul667

Worst patch note ... makes no sense at all

Savos_Saren

What the ***?

Seriously- this is bad for any mag build.

1. You can't get away except to run with the very little stamina you have. No streak, no chains, no hasty prayer, no warden wings or even that weird warden vine. Can't even use race against time.

2. You can't heal. No class based or resto staff heal. Are mag characters supposed to slot Vigor? If we pop a potion- we have to endure attacks and counter with light attacks while waiting for the silence to wear off.

3. Roll dodging won't cut it. The attack comes from a stealth class. It comes out of nowhere.

4. At least with Negate, you can roll dodge out of it.

5. As others have pointed out- this clearly goes toward stamina bias. ZOS could make the attack "blind" the opponent for 3 seconds so that they can't attack the NB (but still be able to heal). Thus, whether your stamina or magic based- you're effected the same.

ZOS_Ragnar

We have removed some posts that were disruptive to the discussion. Please ensure your post remain civil and constructive.

Sanguinor2

Bosov wrote: »

Use a invis pot. Roll dodge. Swap to sword and shield/ice staff bar and hold block. Group up with 23 other people and have them heal you for those 3 seconds.... log out.

So many options!

Can nightblades then please decide what potion to use against them? Detect is all the couterplay cloak Needs and invis for silence? Also using an invis potion in melee range will leave you in range of fear, pulling you out of invis immidiately, also nightblades conveniently have a free to cast anti Stealth tool that reveals you and places both of the Penetration debuffs on you. And they also might have aoe Damage abilities slotted that will pull you out of Stealth but nightblade mains should know all this .

Also where is my 45 seconds silence cooldown when there is multiple nightblades on me or a stamblade actually decides to take Advantage of their ult gen? Dont see it anywhere, thats kinda strange.

Dodgerolling for 3 seconds depletes your Stamina so you cannot break free of the following cc.

Holding block for 3 seconds will drain a lot of stam (base cost is quite high and Blocking has been nerfed multiple times) and you will still get full Damage from dots (which also get buffed by incap) and reduce Incoming Damage but doesnt ignore it.

So everytime someone runs across a stamblade and is a magicka char they Need to summon 23 People to them to have "counterplay" for one cheap ultimate? Also not everyone wants to run in a one button spam zerg and did it ever occur to you that you might be outnumbered while incapped?

Try again pls.

Maulkin

Removing the Mangle and adding Reave would have been nice and all they really had to do. The ult would still have been immensely strong and still slightly OP if we're honest. An ult that does good up front damage, boosts all your damage by 20%, passively boosts your sustain and costs only 75...then even stuns at 125 cost? I mean that's still the best single target ult in the game bar absolutely none.

Adding a 3" Silence instead of a Stun...I don't even. Whoever thought of that should probably stop being involved in balance discussion ever.

Baraber

Frudu wrote: »

Make counterplay to nbs? (without having to waste skillslots or pots for only one class) Open up diversity in playstyles and setups for nb? (not just typical runaway 2h/bow nb or healcloak bashblade) Keep them fun to play? (did a great job creating a class that feels fun to play in its way. So make it balanced but dont destroy it)

Zos: Nope! Keep the ultra-small hitwindow aka cloakdodging away all time. So don't cry when we make everything else *** lol. You can still cloakdodge runaway. So what do you want ??

"Healcloak bashblades"? Sounds fun, never seen one, care to share your build? Im tired of the runaway nb pvp playstyle

cheemers

So many naysayers - this is a great change. You can still dodge or block and your previous HOTs still tick. Don't have such a meltdown.

Minno

usmcjdking wrote: »

Why is there so much focus and attention going onto a class that is not only 5 years old, but spent the last few years reigning supreme and/or competitive in PVE & PVP.

You've got entire specs that are borderline dead. You've got classes that ARE dead.

How is the stealthy invisible rogue tankier than the Paladin? Why does the Paladin have worse healing than the fire breathing Dragonknight.

?????????????????????

Whatever vision you have for classes is not in tune with consumer expectations are - not only that they aren't in tune with any expectations you've given us.

agreed. for 4-5 years players running holy warriors of the light with vampire just to have mobility and a decent ultimate. That was a sign that mobility and access to interesting ultimates were the number one priorities from the community that should have resulted before IC dropped.

I get that they want play as you want, but there neeeds to be some semblance of order and design. We STILL don't have a design intent for templars post-wrobel and most of our previous suggestions to the class reps ended up going to necromancer (including our class defining purge lol).

Zos, you have ALOT of work still and you are being lazy about it.

Savos_Saren

cheemers wrote: »

So many naysayers - this is a great change. You can still dodge or block and your previous HOTs still tick. Don't have such a meltdown.

Yeah- because magic-based builds just have a ton of stamina, right? Also, the attack usually comes from stealth- so why would someone have HOTs just ticking on them for no reason?

So many people cried about wings reflecting ranged attacks- why can't NBs just hold block or dodge the reflections?

Sanguinor2

cheemers wrote: »

So many naysayers - this is a great change. You can still dodge or block and your previous HOTs still tick. Don't have such a meltdown.

Have you ever played magicka in PvP? If so how About you just stand in a negate and try to win a 1v1 on a mag class with only mag abilities on your bar, you may dodge and block and precast hots but not leave the negate. When you´ve done that come back and tell us how balanced and Wonderful that Change is.
If you havent just imagine everything that Costs Stamina for your character gets disabled for 3 seconds while you are Fighting 1v1 or god forbid outnumbered, sounds fun doesnt it?

MartiniDaniels

Rikumaru wrote: »

This patch was looking good outside of nerfing NB's in the wrong areas. Now they mega buff stam nb, one of the strongest specs on live. And ontop of that the zergers got their wish and got race against time nerfed. This patch is suddenly looking from great to kinda meh. also 11 pages in like 3-4 hours. Don't think I've seen an outcry so large and fast before on this game. Not even the 1s cast time shields.

Nobody asked to nerf RAT. People asked to buff shuffle and wings to same 4 seconds.

MirkoZ wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

StShoot wrote: »

Yamenstein wrote: »

I don't get it. Don't sorcs have a 12 sec ult that silences all enemies in it ? And deals damage ?

The only difference is you can't roll out of incap strike and it only affects one person. But also sorc ult affects multiple people and has a higher cost.

How often is incap strike front bared for the regen to be effective? Wouldn't dawnbreaker be more common on front.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

My god, sorcs did that again ! Remember the cast time on shields that ZOS proposed some updates ago ? And all mag characters (mostly sorcs since shields) cried so hard that it created an Ocean on Sahara Desert ? Well.... it seems that they did that again.

Yep, I've been reading forums very consistently for the last half-year, and it's first time ever that answer from ZOS's chief comes so fast. People may cry about NB dominance in population, but this is all BS, everybody knows that Magsorcs are in real influence here maybe Todd H. is secretly playing and has a magsorc..

Fan fact, there are also magblades, magplars, magwardens and so on

Fan fact, yes, after NB (mostly magNB) nerfs were published, there were maybe a dozen of whiny threads in 2 days, where other magclasses were dancing on topicstarter's (magblades) bodies.. now it's 30 threads in few hours, full outrage. The same was when shield cast time was rolled out. It's not hard to guess which is the most favorite class in ESO. Person maybe running NB in trials due to it's efficiency (though now sorcs already returned), but in his soul it's still a sorc.

Toc de Malsvi

Maulkin wrote: »

Removing the Mangle and adding Reave would have been nice and all they really had to do. The ult would still have been immensely strong and still slightly OP if we're honest. An ult that does good up front damage, boosts all your damage by 20%, passively boosts your sustain and costs only 75...then even stuns at 125 cost? I mean that's still the best single target ult in the game bar absolutely none.

Adding a 3" Silence instead of a Stun...I don't even. Whoever thought of that should probably stop being involved in balance discussion ever.

Yup.

What's so interesting is that NB is getting oh so much attention and rapid changes this PTS. No other class is getting this attention, positive or negative. Other classes are getting neutral changes or bug fixes.