[Class Rep] Nightblade Feedback Thread

Ender1310

Pve Stamina Nighblades feel generic/don't feel nightbladey enough.

Class defining skills don't work I pve.

Ambush: This skill's animation is awesome especially from stealth. Give us a reason to do this to a boss. Add major fracture to it, add maybe a damage shield but maybe lower it's initial damage. Just give us a reason to jump on a boss's back, or some sort of playstyle that we can do outside of stealth/gank play.

Cloak: I am a fan of illusion based/dark themed magic. Cloak feels/plays like an assassin ability and most of our passives point us in that direction, thus gankers are born. Make cloak more like a shadow/illusion image where we get maybe 4 to 5 shadow clones. Roll this ability into assassins will where we press it again and one of our shadow clones shoots the spectral bow after so many light attacks. Make a morph where we can trade places with out shadow. Every light attack done consumes a shadow image until the button is pressed again and an arrow is shot. Not really asking for more damage here/asking to be more nightbladey/illusion based as is our class description.

Oumalakasha

Not really a "pain point" but on a superficial note I would love for the Shades' (both morphs) appearance to be a copy of the player's character model. Kinda like mesmer clones from GW2, minus all the purple and butterflies.

kaithuzar

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

As a Nightblade Tank Main, who completed several vet Trials and all vet DLC dungeons (hardmode):


1. Lack of a decent PvE AoE CC
- This is one of the bigger issues the NB Tank has. We only have "Aspect of Terror" and that usually doesnt work in PvE or it doesnt benefit the group, scattering the Mob around. The only use I found for "Mass Hysteria" was in vet Fang Lair Hardmode to get the scarabs away from me. But then again the DPS had to look out for them because the scarabs were running around.

Suggestion: Change the "Manifestation of Terror" Morph so it doesnt "fear" the enemies anymore instead it roots/immobolizes them in fear at one place/holds the ads with shadow/ghost arms on one spot.


2. Bad resource management
- "Siphoning Strikes" doesnt benefit the NB Tank at all. It forces us to light attack to gain 100 Stamina/Magicka each hit. It also punishes heavy attack weaving by giving only 100 Stamina/Magicka back, just like light attacking. The 20 secs timer of the morph is too long as well.
Suggestion: Give heavy attacking more than 100 Stamina/Magicka.
Give an additional Stamina/Magicka at the end of the 20secs based on your max Health (for example: You restore up to 4270 additonal Stamina as well as extra Stamina/Magicka based on 8% of your max Health). That should keep the DPS resource management fair while giving Tanks with more HP more resources.
OR shorten the 20sec timer by 1sec per heavy armor piece equipped. That would mean we get a 13 seconds timer if we wear 7 heavy pieces. (shorter time to get anything back from light attacks but faster additonal resources)

Other issues:
- 16secs Major Ward/Major Resolve for having 7 piece heavy is way too short if you compare it with DKs 30sec one
- "Executioner" passive should be reworked to include Tanks to give them resources back
- Put "Blur" and Morphs into the Shadow Tree

I would also like to add few things after playing on my Tank after the Summerset Update:

-Dot-Suppression: We NB Tanks have no real way to suppress unpurgable dots. We have "Major Evasion" to dodge attacks but we cant dodge dots and since we dont have a magic shield we cant just endure them. While we could use the "Shadowy Disguise" morph to suppress the dots (WRONG) we would lose the self heal and "Minor Protection" from "Dark Cloak" and could also end up deaggro'ing the Boss.
Suggestion: 3 or so seconds of Dot Suppression when activating "Dark Cloak". This would also make the "Dark Cloak" Morph viable for non Tank NBs in Trials and PvP for a more "in your face - brawler" Type of Gameplay.


-Minor Protection Uptime Buff: The 3Secs "Minor Protection" Buff from "Dark Cloak" is too short.
Suggestion: Increase the Uptime of the Buff.


-Dark Cloak is not bursty enough: "Dark Cloak" is a great HoT but it takes 4 Ticks to give your 33% of Max HP back. In high damage fights this usually means it only mitigates the 4k/Sec Dots you have and doesnt really "heal you".
Suggestion: Give Dark Cloak a short time of Dot Suppression OR change it to 3 Ticks instead of 4 so it becomes more bursty.


-Egoistical Passives/Skills: NBs have a too egoistical Toolkit, barely bringing anything valuable to the fight for the group. (In comparison to DKs passives and active Skills: e.g. Engulfing Flames, Igneous Shield, Magma Shell, etc). We also dont have any Synergies for Team Support, except for Ultimates which take too long to fill up and have better alternatives anyway.
Suggestion: Give Skills and Passives defensive Group Support , e.g. allies get "Minor Evasion" when you activate "Mirage" or nearby allies get "Minor Protection" for 3seconds while the caster gets it for 10seconds when you activate "Dark Cloak" or make them Synergies to support the Team by giving resources back through the Undaunted Passives and Synergies.

JESUS CHRIST PEOPLE,

CLOAK DOESN'T SUPPRESS DOTS,
IT HASN'T FOR OVER A YEAR...

kaithuzar

Tonturri wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

1. Useless/unused morphs...or the other way around, skills that are so strong you're gimping yourself if you use anything else. Cripple -> Crippling Grasp is used 100% of the time while Debilitate has nothing going for it. Crippling Grasp is also a massively overloaded skill - it needs another look if ZOS is aiming to reduce the bloat some skills have in that one skill does a ton of things (Ranged, strong DoT, on-hit damage, root, powerful snare, major expedition). Funnel/Swallow Soul is so strong you never see people actually USING Concealed Weapon anymore - it's just slotted for the move speed.

2. Skills that are far too varying in effectiveness - sometimes they're borderline OP, other times they're useless. Shadowy Disguise, Mark, and probably a couple others I'm forgetting.

This also applies to fighting in pvp - magicka NB is very strong, but suffers horribly against anyone with projectile hate (wings, that one warden skill). This is a good opportunity to buff concealed weapon somehow so that Strife is no longer the end-all-be-all.

What if...
1 - instead of nerfing grasp revamp debilitate as an AoE, like encase. Grasp can be dodged and is not as overloaded as cage.
2 - "never see people actually USING Concealed Weapon"? LOL, i won't say anything else than that xD
3 - "This is a good opportunity to buff concealed weapon somehow so that Strife is no longer the end-all-be-all." i don't really think concealed needs a buff. When i switch to my melee gear concealed deals enough damage already.

1 Debilitate does need a revamp, but that doesn't mean Crippling Grasp does not need toning down. It's basically free...well a lot of stuff. mnbs already have their magicka version of shuffle morph to give it plus path. Some part of grasp has got to go - it does way too much. Just compare it to every single othet class dot. I'd trade my soul and a kitten for grasp on any other class. And how did cage even come up? Geez. 'Leave my class skill alone because another class has this one ridiculously overtuned skill that's going to get nerfed soon'? C'mon.

2 Personal experience. Perhaps you have something more intelligent and constructive to offer other than "LOL"? Monkey sounds does not a discussion make. Or do you just go lel because you don't actually have anything else worth saying? :P

3 I wasn't speaking just about damage. The magicka morph effect for example is pretty useless if you don't slot cloak and aren't a ganker. They could, for example, have it give minor expedition while slotted or for a suration when used and double that as a unique buff while stealthed. Or some sort of dot. There's a ton of stuff that can be done without buffing it's direct damage.

Explain to me again how magicka Nightblades have a magicka version of shuffle allowing us to remove snares & provide immunity!

thankyourat

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

As a Nightblade Tank Main, who completed several vet Trials and all vet DLC dungeons (hardmode):


1. Lack of a decent PvE AoE CC
- This is one of the bigger issues the NB Tank has. We only have "Aspect of Terror" and that usually doesnt work in PvE or it doesnt benefit the group, scattering the Mob around. The only use I found for "Mass Hysteria" was in vet Fang Lair Hardmode to get the scarabs away from me. But then again the DPS had to look out for them because the scarabs were running around.

Suggestion: Change the "Manifestation of Terror" Morph so it doesnt "fear" the enemies anymore instead it roots/immobolizes them in fear at one place/holds the ads with shadow/ghost arms on one spot.


2. Bad resource management
- "Siphoning Strikes" doesnt benefit the NB Tank at all. It forces us to light attack to gain 100 Stamina/Magicka each hit. It also punishes heavy attack weaving by giving only 100 Stamina/Magicka back, just like light attacking. The 20 secs timer of the morph is too long as well.
Suggestion: Give heavy attacking more than 100 Stamina/Magicka.
Give an additional Stamina/Magicka at the end of the 20secs based on your max Health (for example: You restore up to 4270 additonal Stamina as well as extra Stamina/Magicka based on 8% of your max Health). That should keep the DPS resource management fair while giving Tanks with more HP more resources.
OR shorten the 20sec timer by 1sec per heavy armor piece equipped. That would mean we get a 13 seconds timer if we wear 7 heavy pieces. (shorter time to get anything back from light attacks but faster additonal resources)

Other issues:
- 16secs Major Ward/Major Resolve for having 7 piece heavy is way too short if you compare it with DKs 30sec one
- "Executioner" passive should be reworked to include Tanks to give them resources back
- Put "Blur" and Morphs into the Shadow Tree

I would also like to add few things after playing on my Tank after the Summerset Update:

-Dot-Suppression: We NB Tanks have no real way to suppress unpurgable dots. We have "Major Evasion" to dodge attacks but we cant dodge dots and since we dont have a magic shield we cant just endure them. While we could use the "Shadowy Disguise" morph to suppress the dots (WRONG) we would lose the self heal and "Minor Protection" from "Dark Cloak" and could also end up deaggro'ing the Boss.
Suggestion: 3 or so seconds of Dot Suppression when activating "Dark Cloak". This would also make the "Dark Cloak" Morph viable for non Tank NBs in Trials and PvP for a more "in your face - brawler" Type of Gameplay.


-Minor Protection Uptime Buff: The 3Secs "Minor Protection" Buff from "Dark Cloak" is too short.
Suggestion: Increase the Uptime of the Buff.


-Dark Cloak is not bursty enough: "Dark Cloak" is a great HoT but it takes 4 Ticks to give your 33% of Max HP back. In high damage fights this usually means it only mitigates the 4k/Sec Dots you have and doesnt really "heal you".
Suggestion: Give Dark Cloak a short time of Dot Suppression OR change it to 3 Ticks instead of 4 so it becomes more bursty.


-Egoistical Passives/Skills: NBs have a too egoistical Toolkit, barely bringing anything valuable to the fight for the group. (In comparison to DKs passives and active Skills: e.g. Engulfing Flames, Igneous Shield, Magma Shell, etc). We also dont have any Synergies for Team Support, except for Ultimates which take too long to fill up and have better alternatives anyway.
Suggestion: Give Skills and Passives defensive Group Support , e.g. allies get "Minor Evasion" when you activate "Mirage" or nearby allies get "Minor Protection" for 3seconds while the caster gets it for 10seconds when you activate "Dark Cloak" or make them Synergies to support the Team by giving resources back through the Undaunted Passives and Synergies.

JESUS CHRIST PEOPLE,

CLOAK DOESN'T SUPPRESS DOTS,
IT HASN'T FOR OVER A YEAR...

Cloak does suppress dots, it doesn't purge dots

cpuScientist

Can I ask. I've seen some people complain about cripple. It give major expedition it roots and does solid damage. It also can only.be cast on one person per time and there are counterplay options. Dodge, Forward momentum, Shuffle and reflect. Against the majority of Stam builds they are all either running shuffle or momentum if not sorry you are playing wrong. Against magPlar and magDen I can see it is strong, they can also slot momentum as they are not tied to a resto staff at all. And can fit a 2h, I've played both of mine with 2h many times.

In open world this skill is less effective just like bow proc. Becat again single Target. Against groups it allows you to root one person.

Now I ask exactly why is cripple so op? Is it the fact that it roots gives expedition and does solid damage and thus you feel one or more of these effects should take off this skill?

Further should the answer be to Nerf Nightblade. Or give mag classes a weapon option for immunity like in resto staff, or to give magPlar/magDen some access to immunity?

I have trouble seeing what makes cripple op and would like it explained to me. I see it as strong sure a valuable part od the magBlade kit. But Over Powered or over performing, no.

kaithuzar

I would love to see everyone in game only play 1 class. Then no one could complain about other classes.

Seriously switch it up every week until each class performs as should. Then start pitting classes against each other.

Vietfox

cpuScientist wrote: »

Can I ask. I've seen some people complain about cripple. It give major expedition it roots and does solid damage. It also can only.be cast on one person per time and there are counterplay options. Dodge, Forward momentum, Shuffle and reflect. Against the majority of Stam builds they are all either running shuffle or momentum if not sorry you are playing wrong. Against magPlar and magDen I can see it is strong, they can also slot momentum as they are not tied to a resto staff at all. And can fit a 2h, I've played both of mine with 2h many times.

In open world this skill is less effective just like bow proc. Becat again single Target. Against groups it allows you to root one person.

Now I ask exactly why is cripple so op? Is it the fact that it roots gives expedition and does solid damage and thus you feel one or more of these effects should take off this skill?

Further should the answer be to Nerf Nightblade. Or give mag classes a weapon option for immunity like in resto staff, or to give magPlar/magDen some access to immunity?

I have trouble seeing what makes cripple op and would like it explained to me. I see it as strong sure a valuable part od the magBlade kit. But Over Powered or over performing, no.

Some people who doesn't main nbs will complain about nbs till zos removes all nbs skills, then they will complain about nbs light/heavy attacks

SneaK

Looks like this was used just to nerf NBs...

Anyway,

1. More unique group utilities: maybe let us mark an ally and turn them invisible (this would be great).
2. A useful form of Sap Essence for Stam characters.

cpuScientist

Awwwwww funnel still reflectable. C'mon zos, and now wings have snare immunity. So every do gonna run it for sure haha. Damn it...

xI_The_Owl_Ix

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

As a Nightblade Tank Main, who completed several vet Trials and all vet DLC dungeons (hardmode):


1. Lack of a decent PvE AoE CC
- This is one of the bigger issues the NB Tank has. We only have "Aspect of Terror" and that usually doesnt work in PvE or it doesnt benefit the group, scattering the Mob around. The only use I found for "Mass Hysteria" was in vet Fang Lair Hardmode to get the scarabs away from me. But then again the DPS had to look out for them because the scarabs were running around.

Suggestion: Change the "Manifestation of Terror" Morph so it doesnt "fear" the enemies anymore instead it roots/immobolizes them in fear at one place/holds the ads with shadow/ghost arms on one spot.


2. Bad resource management
- "Siphoning Strikes" doesnt benefit the NB Tank at all. It forces us to light attack to gain 100 Stamina/Magicka each hit. It also punishes heavy attack weaving by giving only 100 Stamina/Magicka back, just like light attacking. The 20 secs timer of the morph is too long as well.
Suggestion: Give heavy attacking more than 100 Stamina/Magicka.
Give an additional Stamina/Magicka at the end of the 20secs based on your max Health (for example: You restore up to 4270 additonal Stamina as well as extra Stamina/Magicka based on 8% of your max Health). That should keep the DPS resource management fair while giving Tanks with more HP more resources.
OR shorten the 20sec timer by 1sec per heavy armor piece equipped. That would mean we get a 13 seconds timer if we wear 7 heavy pieces. (shorter time to get anything back from light attacks but faster additonal resources)

Other issues:
- 16secs Major Ward/Major Resolve for having 7 piece heavy is way too short if you compare it with DKs 30sec one
- "Executioner" passive should be reworked to include Tanks to give them resources back
- Put "Blur" and Morphs into the Shadow Tree

I would also like to add few things after playing on my Tank after the Summerset Update:

-Dot-Suppression: We NB Tanks have no real way to suppress unpurgable dots. We have "Major Evasion" to dodge attacks but we cant dodge dots and since we dont have a magic shield we cant just endure them. While we could use the "Shadowy Disguise" morph to suppress the dots (WRONG) we would lose the self heal and "Minor Protection" from "Dark Cloak" and could also end up deaggro'ing the Boss.
Suggestion: 3 or so seconds of Dot Suppression when activating "Dark Cloak". This would also make the "Dark Cloak" Morph viable for non Tank NBs in Trials and PvP for a more "in your face - brawler" Type of Gameplay.


-Minor Protection Uptime Buff: The 3Secs "Minor Protection" Buff from "Dark Cloak" is too short.
Suggestion: Increase the Uptime of the Buff.


-Dark Cloak is not bursty enough: "Dark Cloak" is a great HoT but it takes 4 Ticks to give your 33% of Max HP back. In high damage fights this usually means it only mitigates the 4k/Sec Dots you have and doesnt really "heal you".
Suggestion: Give Dark Cloak a short time of Dot Suppression OR change it to 3 Ticks instead of 4 so it becomes more bursty.


-Egoistical Passives/Skills: NBs have a too egoistical Toolkit, barely bringing anything valuable to the fight for the group. (In comparison to DKs passives and active Skills: e.g. Engulfing Flames, Igneous Shield, Magma Shell, etc). We also dont have any Synergies for Team Support, except for Ultimates which take too long to fill up and have better alternatives anyway.
Suggestion: Give Skills and Passives defensive Group Support , e.g. allies get "Minor Evasion" when you activate "Mirage" or nearby allies get "Minor Protection" for 3seconds while the caster gets it for 10seconds when you activate "Dark Cloak" or make them Synergies to support the Team by giving resources back through the Undaunted Passives and Synergies.

JESUS CHRIST PEOPLE,

CLOAK DOESN'T SUPPRESS DOTS,
IT HASN'T FOR OVER A YEAR...

It literally does though. At least Shadow Disguise does. Dark Cloak no longer suppresses any dots hence my suggestion.

kaithuzar

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

As a Nightblade Tank Main, who completed several vet Trials and all vet DLC dungeons (hardmode):


1. Lack of a decent PvE AoE CC
- This is one of the bigger issues the NB Tank has. We only have "Aspect of Terror" and that usually doesnt work in PvE or it doesnt benefit the group, scattering the Mob around. The only use I found for "Mass Hysteria" was in vet Fang Lair Hardmode to get the scarabs away from me. But then again the DPS had to look out for them because the scarabs were running around.

Suggestion: Change the "Manifestation of Terror" Morph so it doesnt "fear" the enemies anymore instead it roots/immobolizes them in fear at one place/holds the ads with shadow/ghost arms on one spot.


2. Bad resource management
- "Siphoning Strikes" doesnt benefit the NB Tank at all. It forces us to light attack to gain 100 Stamina/Magicka each hit. It also punishes heavy attack weaving by giving only 100 Stamina/Magicka back, just like light attacking. The 20 secs timer of the morph is too long as well.
Suggestion: Give heavy attacking more than 100 Stamina/Magicka.
Give an additional Stamina/Magicka at the end of the 20secs based on your max Health (for example: You restore up to 4270 additonal Stamina as well as extra Stamina/Magicka based on 8% of your max Health). That should keep the DPS resource management fair while giving Tanks with more HP more resources.
OR shorten the 20sec timer by 1sec per heavy armor piece equipped. That would mean we get a 13 seconds timer if we wear 7 heavy pieces. (shorter time to get anything back from light attacks but faster additonal resources)

Other issues:
- 16secs Major Ward/Major Resolve for having 7 piece heavy is way too short if you compare it with DKs 30sec one
- "Executioner" passive should be reworked to include Tanks to give them resources back
- Put "Blur" and Morphs into the Shadow Tree

I would also like to add few things after playing on my Tank after the Summerset Update:

-Dot-Suppression: We NB Tanks have no real way to suppress unpurgable dots. We have "Major Evasion" to dodge attacks but we cant dodge dots and since we dont have a magic shield we cant just endure them. While we could use the "Shadowy Disguise" morph to suppress the dots (WRONG) we would lose the self heal and "Minor Protection" from "Dark Cloak" and could also end up deaggro'ing the Boss.
Suggestion: 3 or so seconds of Dot Suppression when activating "Dark Cloak". This would also make the "Dark Cloak" Morph viable for non Tank NBs in Trials and PvP for a more "in your face - brawler" Type of Gameplay.


-Minor Protection Uptime Buff: The 3Secs "Minor Protection" Buff from "Dark Cloak" is too short.
Suggestion: Increase the Uptime of the Buff.


-Dark Cloak is not bursty enough: "Dark Cloak" is a great HoT but it takes 4 Ticks to give your 33% of Max HP back. In high damage fights this usually means it only mitigates the 4k/Sec Dots you have and doesnt really "heal you".
Suggestion: Give Dark Cloak a short time of Dot Suppression OR change it to 3 Ticks instead of 4 so it becomes more bursty.


-Egoistical Passives/Skills: NBs have a too egoistical Toolkit, barely bringing anything valuable to the fight for the group. (In comparison to DKs passives and active Skills: e.g. Engulfing Flames, Igneous Shield, Magma Shell, etc). We also dont have any Synergies for Team Support, except for Ultimates which take too long to fill up and have better alternatives anyway.
Suggestion: Give Skills and Passives defensive Group Support , e.g. allies get "Minor Evasion" when you activate "Mirage" or nearby allies get "Minor Protection" for 3seconds while the caster gets it for 10seconds when you activate "Dark Cloak" or make them Synergies to support the Team by giving resources back through the Undaunted Passives and Synergies.

JESUS CHRIST PEOPLE,

CLOAK DOESN'T SUPPRESS DOTS,
IT HASN'T FOR OVER A YEAR...

It literally does though. At least Shadow Disguise does. Dark Cloak no longer suppresses any dots hence my suggestion.

The last I read from the patch notes (old patch notes) was that it didn't/doesn't. If you're saying it does then I assume you've tested & are stating your results, bug or otherwise.

I'm not going through every set of patch notes on my phone so I'll try to post what I read later.


In other news:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/424480/magic-damage-cc-non-existence#latest

cpuScientist

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

As a Nightblade Tank Main, who completed several vet Trials and all vet DLC dungeons (hardmode):


1. Lack of a decent PvE AoE CC
- This is one of the bigger issues the NB Tank has. We only have "Aspect of Terror" and that usually doesnt work in PvE or it doesnt benefit the group, scattering the Mob around. The only use I found for "Mass Hysteria" was in vet Fang Lair Hardmode to get the scarabs away from me. But then again the DPS had to look out for them because the scarabs were running around.

Suggestion: Change the "Manifestation of Terror" Morph so it doesnt "fear" the enemies anymore instead it roots/immobolizes them in fear at one place/holds the ads with shadow/ghost arms on one spot.


2. Bad resource management
- "Siphoning Strikes" doesnt benefit the NB Tank at all. It forces us to light attack to gain 100 Stamina/Magicka each hit. It also punishes heavy attack weaving by giving only 100 Stamina/Magicka back, just like light attacking. The 20 secs timer of the morph is too long as well.
Suggestion: Give heavy attacking more than 100 Stamina/Magicka.
Give an additional Stamina/Magicka at the end of the 20secs based on your max Health (for example: You restore up to 4270 additonal Stamina as well as extra Stamina/Magicka based on 8% of your max Health). That should keep the DPS resource management fair while giving Tanks with more HP more resources.
OR shorten the 20sec timer by 1sec per heavy armor piece equipped. That would mean we get a 13 seconds timer if we wear 7 heavy pieces. (shorter time to get anything back from light attacks but faster additonal resources)

Other issues:
- 16secs Major Ward/Major Resolve for having 7 piece heavy is way too short if you compare it with DKs 30sec one
- "Executioner" passive should be reworked to include Tanks to give them resources back
- Put "Blur" and Morphs into the Shadow Tree

I would also like to add few things after playing on my Tank after the Summerset Update:

-Dot-Suppression: We NB Tanks have no real way to suppress unpurgable dots. We have "Major Evasion" to dodge attacks but we cant dodge dots and since we dont have a magic shield we cant just endure them. While we could use the "Shadowy Disguise" morph to suppress the dots (WRONG) we would lose the self heal and "Minor Protection" from "Dark Cloak" and could also end up deaggro'ing the Boss.
Suggestion: 3 or so seconds of Dot Suppression when activating "Dark Cloak". This would also make the "Dark Cloak" Morph viable for non Tank NBs in Trials and PvP for a more "in your face - brawler" Type of Gameplay.


-Minor Protection Uptime Buff: The 3Secs "Minor Protection" Buff from "Dark Cloak" is too short.
Suggestion: Increase the Uptime of the Buff.


-Dark Cloak is not bursty enough: "Dark Cloak" is a great HoT but it takes 4 Ticks to give your 33% of Max HP back. In high damage fights this usually means it only mitigates the 4k/Sec Dots you have and doesnt really "heal you".
Suggestion: Give Dark Cloak a short time of Dot Suppression OR change it to 3 Ticks instead of 4 so it becomes more bursty.


-Egoistical Passives/Skills: NBs have a too egoistical Toolkit, barely bringing anything valuable to the fight for the group. (In comparison to DKs passives and active Skills: e.g. Engulfing Flames, Igneous Shield, Magma Shell, etc). We also dont have any Synergies for Team Support, except for Ultimates which take too long to fill up and have better alternatives anyway.
Suggestion: Give Skills and Passives defensive Group Support , e.g. allies get "Minor Evasion" when you activate "Mirage" or nearby allies get "Minor Protection" for 3seconds while the caster gets it for 10seconds when you activate "Dark Cloak" or make them Synergies to support the Team by giving resources back through the Undaunted Passives and Synergies.

JESUS CHRIST PEOPLE,

CLOAK DOESN'T SUPPRESS DOTS,
IT HASN'T FOR OVER A YEAR...

It literally does though. At least Shadow Disguise does. Dark Cloak no longer suppresses any dots hence my suggestion.

The last I read from the patch notes (old patch notes) was that it didn't/doesn't. If you're saying it does then I assume you've tested & are stating your results, bug or otherwise.

I'm not going through every set of patch notes on my phone so I'll try to post what I read later.


In other news:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/424480/magic-damage-cc-non-existence#latest

Then if you have not tested it or use it, don't flip out about it, and go in all caps lol. Cloak used to purge them, now it supresses it. Not a bug just what they changed it to be.

Nefareal

I love playimg stamblade but i feel like it under preforms aganst magicka t
Character especially sorcs who shield stack ( a common complaint) that and tanks ive seen those complajnts he most but id thought id through it out there too

Grimhallow

@NightbladeMechanics

1. Keep the cost of incap the same and bring back the 100% stun, but make it so that the defile only lasts the duration of the stun- or take away the defile completely.

2. Make it so that incap's stun doesn't "floppy fish" players, so that you can break the stun and recover far more easily (potentially impossible, I know).


This makes the ability far more balanced, remaining strong for players of all skill levels to use, while allowing for more counterplay by giving victims the opportunity to break the stun and recover quickly (instead of having a 6 second defile on them), and punishing players who have wasted their resources and don't have the stam to break the stun, since the defile on a stunned player will prevent group healers from being able to heal them from " 0->100".

Keeps the ability satisfying to use, and less frustrating to have used against you.

cpuScientist

Grimick wrote: »

@NightbladeMechanics

1. Keep the cost of incap the same and bring back the 100% stun, but make it so that the defile only lasts the duration of the stun- or take away the defile completely.

2. Make it so that incap's stun doesn't "floppy fish" players, so that you can break the stun and recover far more easily (potentially impossible, I know).


This makes the ability far more balanced, remaining strong for players of all skill levels to use, while allowing for more counterplay by giving victims the opportunity to break the stun and recover quickly (instead of having a 6 second defile on them), and punishing players who have wasted their resources and don't have the stam to break the stun, since the defile on a stunned player will prevent group healers from being able to heal them from " 0->100".

Keeps the ability satisfying to use, and less frustrating to have used against you.

Nah I think taking off the stun is perfect. The defile is very much what makes the skill. If it still stunned but the defile was removed, people would just use dawnbreaker, it does more damage stuns and puts a nice dot on the target. The defile makes this skill honestly. Now just get the stun from a cloaked suprise attack opener, or slot fear. Fear take up an ability slot slightly nerfing them, which is great, and getting the stun off suprise makes it alot more skill based and situational. Just adds a touch more counter.

This was the best fairest way to Nerf this skill. In my honest opinion.

cpuScientist

Make strife non reflectable. MagBlade is the only class that is soooo hard countered in PvP. Even a dot build is not this countered by a magPlar, as they are not reflecting damage back and are still under the effects of the dots for a time. But a magBlade either has to play melee with that magDK with simply not enough skills to do damage if they keep wings up, just path and wall would be the dots lol. Or slot pulse, which is simply nowhere near as good as strife.

Honestly I don't see why it can't be the same as magSorc where the only reflectable thing is the big burst. Frag is the biggest damage from a Sorc and it remains reflectable. Make it so only the bow is reflected but strife and cripple isn't. So magBlade cannot use their biggest burst effectively at all, are still forced into melee to stun them but have some counterplay against them.

NightbladeMechanics

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grimick wrote: »

@NightbladeMechanics

1. Keep the cost of incap the same and bring back the 100% stun, but make it so that the defile only lasts the duration of the stun- or take away the defile completely.

2. Make it so that incap's stun doesn't "floppy fish" players, so that you can break the stun and recover far more easily (potentially impossible, I know).


This makes the ability far more balanced, remaining strong for players of all skill levels to use, while allowing for more counterplay by giving victims the opportunity to break the stun and recover quickly (instead of having a 6 second defile on them), and punishing players who have wasted their resources and don't have the stam to break the stun, since the defile on a stunned player will prevent group healers from being able to heal them from " 0->100".

Keeps the ability satisfying to use, and less frustrating to have used against you.

Nah I think taking off the stun is perfect. The defile is very much what makes the skill. If it still stunned but the defile was removed, people would just use dawnbreaker, it does more damage stuns and puts a nice dot on the target. The defile makes this skill honestly. Now just get the stun from a cloaked suprise attack opener, or slot fear. Fear take up an ability slot slightly nerfing them, which is great, and getting the stun off suprise makes it alot more skill based and situational. Just adds a touch more counter.

This was the best fairest way to Nerf this skill. In my honest opinion.

Surprise Attack's stun also off balances, granting the Exploiter CP damage boost. Reward for the extra effort.

I wish mageblade could make use of that passive without having to slot 75 Thaum >:(

Ragnarock41

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grimick wrote: »

@NightbladeMechanics

1. Keep the cost of incap the same and bring back the 100% stun, but make it so that the defile only lasts the duration of the stun- or take away the defile completely.

2. Make it so that incap's stun doesn't "floppy fish" players, so that you can break the stun and recover far more easily (potentially impossible, I know).


This makes the ability far more balanced, remaining strong for players of all skill levels to use, while allowing for more counterplay by giving victims the opportunity to break the stun and recover quickly (instead of having a 6 second defile on them), and punishing players who have wasted their resources and don't have the stam to break the stun, since the defile on a stunned player will prevent group healers from being able to heal them from " 0->100".

Keeps the ability satisfying to use, and less frustrating to have used against you.

Nah I think taking off the stun is perfect. The defile is very much what makes the skill. If it still stunned but the defile was removed, people would just use dawnbreaker, it does more damage stuns and puts a nice dot on the target. The defile makes this skill honestly. Now just get the stun from a cloaked suprise attack opener, or slot fear. Fear take up an ability slot slightly nerfing them, which is great, and getting the stun off suprise makes it alot more skill based and situational. Just adds a touch more counter.

This was the best fairest way to Nerf this skill. In my honest opinion.

Surprise Attack's stun also off balances, granting the Exploiter CP damage boost. Reward for the extra effort.

I wish mageblade could make use of that passive without having to slot 75 Thaum >:(

Man I wish I had an actual spammable. No need for all that fancy off balance stuff. Just regular old spammable. (and before you tell me it won't change much and yada yada, I know all of it. I just wanna drop SnB and never look back at it.)

max_only

Revert Siphoning Attacks to pre Morrowind status. Who ever complained about our sustain skill? We don’t need more self healing, we have plenty of that. No one was ever destroyed or ganked from SA. If all you do is that, my sap tank and I will be forever grateful. You want diversity? This is how you get it.

paallterrain148

Incap is grossly overpreforming, as is suprise attack. Too much damage with bonus effects.

Strife is too hard to weave and is reflectable.

Stamina needs a class DOT.

Sorry for 3.

NightbladeMechanics

max_only wrote: »

Revert Siphoning Attacks to pre Morrowind status. Who ever complained about our sustain skill? We don’t need more self healing, we have plenty of that. No one was ever destroyed or ganked from SA. If all you do is that, my sap tank and I will be forever grateful. You want diversity? This is how you get it.

I miss old sap tanking. Removing the dual resource sustain from Siphoning Attacks and especially removing the ability to proc some resources from direct damage -- namely Sap Essence -- really messed with that play style.

Raising the other classes to the level of DK PvE tanking is high on our list of class balance concerns, but I am not sure how ready ZOS is to move on the PvP tanking side of things. I'll ask.

Sun7dance

Just give the stamblade a possibility to move fast in stealth.
Being a vampire isn't an option any longer, if you don't want to be a sniper/ganker.

Nightblade = Assassine = fast movement

cpuScientist

Sun7dance wrote: »

Just give the stamblade a possibility to move fast in stealth.
Being a vampire isn't an option any longer, if you don't want to be a sniper/ganker.

Nightblade = Assassine = fast movement

I hear this. But for me Swifty and channeled acceleration have worked wonders. I do wish I could just innately move like a vampire. And while that's still a solid viable option, I rather not open myself up to Omega dawnBreakers on either my mag or stamBlade. Further I miss the old days of sneaking faster than a mount. Twaz always hilarious.

cpuScientist

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Grimick wrote: »

@NightbladeMechanics

1. Keep the cost of incap the same and bring back the 100% stun, but make it so that the defile only lasts the duration of the stun- or take away the defile completely.

2. Make it so that incap's stun doesn't "floppy fish" players, so that you can break the stun and recover far more easily (potentially impossible, I know).


This makes the ability far more balanced, remaining strong for players of all skill levels to use, while allowing for more counterplay by giving victims the opportunity to break the stun and recover quickly (instead of having a 6 second defile on them), and punishing players who have wasted their resources and don't have the stam to break the stun, since the defile on a stunned player will prevent group healers from being able to heal them from " 0->100".

Keeps the ability satisfying to use, and less frustrating to have used against you.

Nah I think taking off the stun is perfect. The defile is very much what makes the skill. If it still stunned but the defile was removed, people would just use dawnbreaker, it does more damage stuns and puts a nice dot on the target. The defile makes this skill honestly. Now just get the stun from a cloaked suprise attack opener, or slot fear. Fear take up an ability slot slightly nerfing them, which is great, and getting the stun off suprise makes it alot more skill based and situational. Just adds a touch more counter.

This was the best fairest way to Nerf this skill. In my honest opinion.

Surprise Attack's stun also off balances, granting the Exploiter CP damage boost. Reward for the extra effort.

I wish mageblade could make use of that passive without having to slot 75 Thaum >:(

Yeah I woukd rather that not be locked behind 75 pts. Make it the 10 pt one imo or move it to the middle blue tree.

Durham

LegacyDM wrote: »

All you guys hating on cloak.remember magicka nb doesn’t have a class shield nor stamina to dodge roll forever. + there are over s dozen counters to cloak. Cloak is really our only defense without relying on shade morph. If anything it needs a buff.

LegacyDM wrote: »

All you guys hating on cloak.remember magicka nb doesn’t have a class shield nor stamina to dodge roll forever. + there are over s dozen counters to cloak. Cloak is really our only defense without relying on shade morph. If anything it needs a buff.

Blocking with shield is utter crap at the moment.. .25 a sec stam usage.. Dodge roll hefty penalty ... every thing you listed has a spam penalty .. NB cloak has no penalty imo the best mitigation in the game ...with magicka based shields second..

aeowulf

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Revert Siphoning Attacks to pre Morrowind status. Who ever complained about our sustain skill? We don’t need more self healing, we have plenty of that. No one was ever destroyed or ganked from SA. If all you do is that, my sap tank and I will be forever grateful. You want diversity? This is how you get it.

I miss old sap tanking. Removing the dual resource sustain from Siphoning Attacks and especially removing the ability to proc some resources from direct damage -- namely Sap Essence -- really messed with that play style.

Raising the other classes to the level of DK PvE tanking is high on our list of class balance concerns, but I am not sure how ready ZOS is to move on the PvP tanking side of things. I'll ask.

Yep me too. Was the most fun i'd had in ESO & i've not found anything close since. Tanking is now uninspiring and basically the same as on other classes, just tougher and less effective. If i could change one thing in ESO, it would be to return that playstyle. NB were not as good as DK back then either, but they had something fun. Games are meant to be fun after all right?

Feanor

If Siphoning Attacks were restored ZOS would have to revert the Morrowind sustain changes for all other classes too. Not likely to happen.

Some of the suggestions on this thread are also ridiculous buffs.

kaithuzar

Feanor wrote: »

If Siphoning Attacks were restored ZOS would have to revert the Morrowind sustain changes for all other classes too. Not likely to happen.

Some of the suggestions on this thread are also ridiculous buffs.

I think while suggestions are likely viewed as buffs, the primary reason is to avoid stagnant playstyle; even if nightblade often has more variations than most other classes.

max_only

Feanor wrote: »

If Siphoning Attacks were restored ZOS would have to revert the Morrowind sustain changes for all other classes too. Not likely to happen.

Some of the suggestions on this thread are also ridiculous buffs.

Nope. They gave Dark Exchange or whatever a .2 second cast extension. Unless they’ve nerfed it more since I’ve been gone, I don’t see how that is equal treatment. They should have make DE cost magicka to gain magicka if they wanted to be equitable. But they didn’t. So we don’t have to revert ALL classes, just the one skill because it still makes no sense to spend magick to gain magick (and only if you are 100% perfect in its execution). If it’s good for the goose (Sorcs) it’s good for the gander (Nbs)

They spend stamina and get health and magicka. No other requirements like must hit 5 times or wait until the buff ends. https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Dark+Exchange

It’s bs that they took SA away and left DE.

Give me back SA, even if it has a 1.2 second cast time lol.