Magic damage + CC non-existence

kaithuzar

So incap basically has the stun removed if you are higher health than your opponent.

Many magic Nightblades specifically used incap because it was damage + cc/stun in 1 ability.

All stamina players can use dawnbreaker as an ultimate which gives damage+cc/stun.

Most magicka classes have abilities with damage+cc/stun in 1 ability, why does Nightblade not have this?

Animations, even with canceling, take time to press the button & start the animation prior to canceling it. Having to use fear (non-damaging cc), then attack, increases the duration of "time to kill" & allows your opponent to heal up/reset.

If you're going to argue "surprise attack/concealed" from stealth, can any class not stun from stealth if using stealth pots?
Also, my argument is the "taking a knee" stun from stealth is not nearly as affective as the "knock your entire body flat on the ground" from dawn breaker, or the "knock you completely into the air" with dizzying swing/wrecking blow.

Thoughts?

Thogard

Just get a master destro like everyone else.

kaithuzar

So only stamina users can now play the "brawler style"?
If you want to play magicka, you must use a stick & play at range? GG

Skander

Sneak+ CW on the back=stun

kaithuzar

Skander wrote: »

Sneak+ CW on the back=stun

Did you even read? I already argued against that...

thankyourat

If you want a ultimate that stuns just use soul tether. I use it all the time and it's a great ability.

kaithuzar

thankyourat wrote: »

If you want a ultimate that stuns just use soul tether. I use it all the time and it's a great ability.

Even soul tether is just a "take knee" stun/cc.
Maybe I should have re-worded my complaint.

Biro123

You can use dawnbreaker on mag. I do it on builds that don't have the bar space for cage/meteor..

Kind of sad that meteor comes with cc but is so telegraphed that you need to coordinate it with another cc to be effective.

Tonturri

kaithuzar wrote: »

So incap basically has the stun removed if you are higher health than your opponent.

Many magic Nightblades specifically used incap because it was damage + cc/stun in 1 ability.

All stamina players can use dawnbreaker as an ultimate which gives damage+cc/stun.

Most magicka classes have abilities with damage+cc/stun in 1 ability, why does Nightblade not have this?

Animations, even with canceling, take time to press the button & start the animation prior to canceling it. Having to use fear (non-damaging cc), then attack, increases the duration of "time to kill" & allows your opponent to heal up/reset.

If you're going to argue "surprise attack/concealed" from stealth, can any class not stun from stealth if using stealth pots?
Also, my argument is the "taking a knee" stun from stealth is not nearly as affective as the "knock your entire body flat on the ground" from dawn breaker, or the "knock you completely into the air" with dizzying swing/wrecking blow.

Thoughts?

Most magicka classes have been LOSING their CC + high damage abilities, you mean, and it's pretty fair that Incap got similar treatment (Frags, Fissure, Shards lost its stun. Now it just takes a tad more effort and planning to use - this is a good thing.

I'm not entirely sure what issue you have with this change other than that it's just a little harder to make use of.

Don't even try to generalize it as 'damage + CC' when you (should) know very well that Incap was HIGH DAMAGE, multiple debuffs + CC, and that this change was long overdue.

thankyourat

kaithuzar wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

If you want a ultimate that stuns just use soul tether. I use it all the time and it's a great ability.

Even soul tether is just a "take knee" stun/cc.
Maybe I should have re-worded my complaint.

Yes the animation is your opponent taking a knee but they are still cc'd and can't move unless they cc break. Soul tether also hits harder than incap on a Magicka build and the stun is 4.5 seconds. Are you asking for a spammable stun like flame reach?

kaithuzar

Tonturri wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

So incap basically has the stun removed if you are higher health than your opponent.

Many magic Nightblades specifically used incap because it was damage + cc/stun in 1 ability.

All stamina players can use dawnbreaker as an ultimate which gives damage+cc/stun.

Most magicka classes have abilities with damage+cc/stun in 1 ability, why does Nightblade not have this?

Animations, even with canceling, take time to press the button & start the animation prior to canceling it. Having to use fear (non-damaging cc), then attack, increases the duration of "time to kill" & allows your opponent to heal up/reset.

If you're going to argue "surprise attack/concealed" from stealth, can any class not stun from stealth if using stealth pots?
Also, my argument is the "taking a knee" stun from stealth is not nearly as affective as the "knock your entire body flat on the ground" from dawn breaker, or the "knock you completely into the air" with dizzying swing/wrecking blow.

Thoughts?

Most magicka classes have been LOSING their CC + high damage abilities, you mean, and it's pretty fair that Incap got similar treatment (Frags, Fissure, Shards lost its stun. Now it just takes a tad more effort and planning to use - this is a good thing.

I'm not entirely sure what issue you have with this change other than that it's just a little harder to make use of.

Don't even try to generalize it as 'damage + CC' when you (should) know very well that Incap was HIGH DAMAGE, multiple debuffs + CC, and that this change was long overdue.

I'm not saying the nerf shouldn't have come, I'm saying let's talk alternatives because it feels like we / magicka classes, are lacking in that area.

Dk's stonefist is good since it can knock you down flat & it's ranged.

But fossilize I view as "not as good" due to you just taking a knee however, you typically have to watch the animation of the rocks coming out of the ground before you can break free.
This longer animation time makes it on par with stone fist's knocking you flat.

Templar javelin, only makes you take a knee.

Sorc's ability to "knock you flat" with crystal frags was taken away & rune cage just has you take a knee.

I'm saying if they are going to take away magicka players ability to knock you flat, then why does stam get "special treatment" in this case?

kaithuzar

thankyourat wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

If you want a ultimate that stuns just use soul tether. I use it all the time and it's a great ability.

Even soul tether is just a "take knee" stun/cc.
Maybe I should have re-worded my complaint.

Yes the animation is your opponent taking a knee but they are still cc'd and can't move unless they cc break. Soul tether also hits harder than incap on a Magicka build and the stun is 4.5 seconds. Are you asking for a spammable stun like flame reach?

Not a spammable, just something that deals damage and is able to flatten a player on the ground. Flattening them on the ground or knocking them in the air has an extended cc duration that just "taking a knee" doesn't have.

In short, I want a magicka version of dizzying swing/wrecking blow, or for dawnbreaker to scale off spell penetration

cpuScientist

Nightblades used it for the defile and damage boost afterwards. The stun was icing, but not the cake. Especially with fear or a hit out of stealth already stunning.

If you want an ultimate that can stun aswell as others suggested use soul tehter.

You say 2 different things, you say Stan classes have ultimates that do this and mag classes have skills that damage and CC. So are you complaining that fear doesn't have damage? Or that you have no ultimate that CC's and does damage?

Because again soul tether does this and if you were using incap, you were using a stamina not Magicka based ultimate so you should have no qualms with Dawnbreaker.

If you want fear to do damage, I don't think that's good, could be debated but I don't see the need for it. And if you wanted damage from a stun you could again use flame reach, and flame reach is dodgeable and blockable just like incap was so there is no difference there...

So my question is. What's the problem? What are you asking for or complaining about exactly?

kaithuzar

cpuScientist wrote: »

Nightblades used it for the defile and damage boost afterwards. The stun was icing, but not the cake. Especially with fear or a hit out of stealth already stunning.

If you want an ultimate that can stun aswell as others suggested use soul tehter.

You say 2 different things, you say Stan classes have ultimates that do this and mag classes have skills that damage and CC. So are you complaining that fear doesn't have damage? Or that you have no ultimate that CC's and does damage?

Because again soul tether does this and if you were using incap, you were using a stamina not Magicka based ultimate so you should have no qualms with Dawnbreaker.

If you want fear to do damage, I don't think that's good, could be debated but I don't see the need for it. And if you wanted damage from a stun you could again use flame reach, and flame reach is dodgeable and blockable just like incap was so there is no difference there...

So my question is. What's the problem? What are you asking for or complaining about exactly?

The difference is regarding playstyle. If I'm a brawler style I don't want to be pigeonholed into using a stick for flame reach.
Maybe it's just me but idk where people got the idea that soul tether is equal to dawnbreaker on NOT a bomber build >.>

Arkangeloski

Tonturri wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

So incap basically has the stun removed if you are higher health than your opponent.

Many magic Nightblades specifically used incap because it was damage + cc/stun in 1 ability.

All stamina players can use dawnbreaker as an ultimate which gives damage+cc/stun.

Most magicka classes have abilities with damage+cc/stun in 1 ability, why does Nightblade not have this?

Animations, even with canceling, take time to press the button & start the animation prior to canceling it. Having to use fear (non-damaging cc), then attack, increases the duration of "time to kill" & allows your opponent to heal up/reset.

If you're going to argue "surprise attack/concealed" from stealth, can any class not stun from stealth if using stealth pots?
Also, my argument is the "taking a knee" stun from stealth is not nearly as affective as the "knock your entire body flat on the ground" from dawn breaker, or the "knock you completely into the air" with dizzying swing/wrecking blow.

Thoughts?

Most magicka classes have been LOSING their CC + high damage abilities, you mean, and it's pretty fair that Incap got similar treatment (Frags, Fissure, Shards lost its stun. Now it just takes a tad more effort and planning to use - this is a good thing.

I'm not entirely sure what issue you have with this change other than that it's just a little harder to make use of.

Don't even try to generalize it as 'damage + CC' when you (should) know very well that Incap was HIGH DAMAGE, multiple debuffs + CC, and that this change was long overdue.

Frags it's a skill incap is an ulti... not even close

Tonturri

Arkangeloski wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

So incap basically has the stun removed if you are higher health than your opponent.

Many magic Nightblades specifically used incap because it was damage + cc/stun in 1 ability.

All stamina players can use dawnbreaker as an ultimate which gives damage+cc/stun.

Most magicka classes have abilities with damage+cc/stun in 1 ability, why does Nightblade not have this?

Animations, even with canceling, take time to press the button & start the animation prior to canceling it. Having to use fear (non-damaging cc), then attack, increases the duration of "time to kill" & allows your opponent to heal up/reset.

If you're going to argue "surprise attack/concealed" from stealth, can any class not stun from stealth if using stealth pots?
Also, my argument is the "taking a knee" stun from stealth is not nearly as affective as the "knock your entire body flat on the ground" from dawn breaker, or the "knock you completely into the air" with dizzying swing/wrecking blow.

Thoughts?

Most magicka classes have been LOSING their CC + high damage abilities, you mean, and it's pretty fair that Incap got similar treatment (Frags, Fissure, Shards lost its stun. Now it just takes a tad more effort and planning to use - this is a good thing.

I'm not entirely sure what issue you have with this change other than that it's just a little harder to make use of.

Don't even try to generalize it as 'damage + CC' when you (should) know very well that Incap was HIGH DAMAGE, multiple debuffs + CC, and that this change was long overdue.

Frags it's a skill incap is an ulti... not even close

The point is that ZOS is going around rebalancing overloaded (does too many things for too little) skills. But nice job on totally ignoring the main portion of my post in favor of the small bracketed bit.

LegendaryMage

Arkangeloski wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

So incap basically has the stun removed if you are higher health than your opponent.

Many magic Nightblades specifically used incap because it was damage + cc/stun in 1 ability.

All stamina players can use dawnbreaker as an ultimate which gives damage+cc/stun.

Most magicka classes have abilities with damage+cc/stun in 1 ability, why does Nightblade not have this?

Animations, even with canceling, take time to press the button & start the animation prior to canceling it. Having to use fear (non-damaging cc), then attack, increases the duration of "time to kill" & allows your opponent to heal up/reset.

If you're going to argue "surprise attack/concealed" from stealth, can any class not stun from stealth if using stealth pots?
Also, my argument is the "taking a knee" stun from stealth is not nearly as affective as the "knock your entire body flat on the ground" from dawn breaker, or the "knock you completely into the air" with dizzying swing/wrecking blow.

Thoughts?

Most magicka classes have been LOSING their CC + high damage abilities, you mean, and it's pretty fair that Incap got similar treatment (Frags, Fissure, Shards lost its stun. Now it just takes a tad more effort and planning to use - this is a good thing.

I'm not entirely sure what issue you have with this change other than that it's just a little harder to make use of.

Don't even try to generalize it as 'damage + CC' when you (should) know very well that Incap was HIGH DAMAGE, multiple debuffs + CC, and that this change was long overdue.

Frags it's a skill incap is an ulti... not even close

Incap's stun is much longer than frag's ever was, there's no comparison there. And the stun is still there, it just has a condition and this is how it used to be before too.

PathwayM

Good riddance to incap imo lol...

brandonv516

Soul Harvest needs a buff.