[Class Rep] Nightblade Feedback Thread

DUTCH_REAPER

All those calling for nerfs to the class should be ashamed of themselves.

Stop the NERF!!!

Blobsky

Aztlan wrote: »

I don't want any drama here, because this thread is about providing feedback to Kena, but I get the sense that @Blobsky is trying to have an outsized influence based on his notoriety and Grand Overlord status (which isn't that uncommon actually). He's not the only one with experience. I have been a stamina Nightblade since launch, and I have plenty of PvE and PvP experience.

However, I have a different opinion. I think the devs need to be extremely cautious about reducing the effectiveness of skills that are essential to the identity of the class, such as Incapacitating Strike and Cloak. I don't want Nightblade to go down the same path as Templars and Dragonknights, which as far as I understand, have suffered some unfortunate nerfs to their class skills and passives in order to deal with power creep. Whatever ZOS decides to do in terms of balance, I think they need to preserve the identity of Nightblades as stealthy single target assassins.

The only thing I want is balance.

Nightblade is a good 90% of top PvE dps (Mag AND stam) and a minimum of 70% of cyrodiil becuase it is so insanely easy

TheUndeadAmulet

Aztlan wrote: »

I don't want any drama here, because this thread is about providing feedback to Kena, but I get the sense that @Blobsky is trying to have an outsized influence based on his notoriety and Grand Overlord status (which isn't that uncommon actually). He's not the only one with experience. I have been a stamina Nightblade since launch, and I have plenty of PvE and PvP experience.

However, I have a different opinion. I think the devs need to be extremely cautious about reducing the effectiveness of skills that are essential to the identity of the class, such as Incapacitating Strike and Cloak. I don't want Nightblade to go down the same path as Templars and Dragonknights, which as far as I understand, have suffered some unfortunate nerfs to their class skills and passives in order to deal with power creep. Whatever ZOS decides to do in terms of balance, I think they need to preserve the identity of Nightblades as stealthy single target assassins.

I think everyone can agree with this, i don't want any other classes to go down the same route as DK's and Templars. The only things that need to be tuned in the nightblades kit are cloak and incap. Cloak needs to simply be made more consistent and incap needs a slight nerf either through removal of the extra damage debuff or stun, nothing else. I would much prefer other classes to be buffed to the same level than another class to lose its identity.

Shinshadow

I personally, would like to see more stamina based morphs

Sparr0w

Synergies, longer buff from cloak, reduce Funnel & Sap cost to ele weapon

Ragnarock41

Daus wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Aztlan wrote: »

In response to @Blobsky, with all due respect, Incapacitating Strike does not need a "huge nerf." As I've posted here, Incap is fundamental to the Nightblade archetype and playstyle. Significantly weakening the skill would be a shame. If anything, it could use a minor adjustment, such as placing a condition on the CC as was the case previously.

I mean I have 2 MagNB grand Overlords and a 35+ Stamblade. The fact that I use it on magicka speaks plenty, and on a stam NB itis literally a 2 second kill on most targets.

It is ridiculously overtuned and anyone saying otherwise is not here for "balance" - they are here to buff themselves or minimise the well overdue nerf.

Even if you entirely removed one of the defile or 20% damage AND upped the cost 50% to 105... It would STILL be best in slot.

All that experience and yet you're still wrong. If they were to remove the defile then Incap would be useless in PvP, and then the Stam DK would be the only Stam class not using DBoS.

If you remove the +20% damage then stamblades will once again be a dead DPS class for PvE.

Increase the cost and you'll kill it in both pve and pvp.

Literally the only fair adjustment you can make is to remove or adjust the CC.

1. High ST damage.
2. Very low cost.
3. Major defile
4. %20 damage taken debuff.

Incap is the literal definition of the ''I win'' button. But you wouldn't like that taken away, because it would break your role playing session to actually work for your kills.

I know, I know. Don't worry, Wrobel understands.

That is why even if you're so bad to the point you couldn't win with the ''I win'' button, you can always cloak away

Aztlan

Here we go again. Let's not start another argument about whether or not Incap should be adjusted. And why be so rude about it? I think Kena has all the feedback he needs on this point.

Blobsky

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Aztlan wrote: »

In response to @Blobsky, with all due respect, Incapacitating Strike does not need a "huge nerf." As I've posted here, Incap is fundamental to the Nightblade archetype and playstyle. Significantly weakening the skill would be a shame. If anything, it could use a minor adjustment, such as placing a condition on the CC as was the case previously.

I mean I have 2 MagNB grand Overlords and a 35+ Stamblade. The fact that I use it on magicka speaks plenty, and on a stam NB itis literally a 2 second kill on most targets.

It is ridiculously overtuned and anyone saying otherwise is not here for "balance" - they are here to buff themselves or minimise the well overdue nerf.

Even if you entirely removed one of the defile or 20% damage AND upped the cost 50% to 105... It would STILL be best in slot.

All that experience and yet you're still wrong. If they were to remove the defile then Incap would be useless in PvP, and then the Stam DK would be the only Stam class not using DBoS.

If you remove the +20% damage then stamblades will once again be a dead DPS class for PvE.

Increase the cost and you'll kill it in both pve and pvp.

Literally the only fair adjustment you can make is to remove or adjust the CC.

1. High ST damage.
2. Very low cost.
3. Major defile
4. %20 damage taken debuff.

Incap is the literal definition of the ''I win'' button. But you wouldn't like that taken away, because it would break your role playing session to actually work for your kills.

I know, I know. Don't worry, Wrobel understands.

That is why even if you're so bad to the point you couldn't win with the ''I win'' button, you can always cloak away

Dont forget it ccs too

xI_The_Owl_Ix

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

As a Nightblade Tank Main, who completed several vet Trials and all vet DLC dungeons (hardmode):


1. Lack of a decent PvE AoE CC
- This is one of the bigger issues the NB Tank has. We only have "Aspect of Terror" and that usually doesnt work in PvE or it doesnt benefit the group, scattering the Mob around. The only use I found for "Mass Hysteria" was in vet Fang Lair Hardmode to get the scarabs away from me. But then again the DPS had to look out for them because the scarabs were running around.

Suggestion: Change the "Manifestation of Terror" Morph so it doesnt "fear" the enemies anymore instead it roots/immobolizes them in fear at one place/holds the ads with shadow/ghost arms on one spot.


2. Bad resource management
- "Siphoning Strikes" doesnt benefit the NB Tank at all. It forces us to light attack to gain 100 Stamina/Magicka each hit. It also punishes heavy attack weaving by giving only 100 Stamina/Magicka back, just like light attacking. The 20 secs timer of the morph is too long as well.
Suggestion: Give heavy attacking more than 100 Stamina/Magicka.
Give an additional Stamina/Magicka at the end of the 20secs based on your max Health (for example: You restore up to 4270 additonal Stamina as well as extra Stamina/Magicka based on 8% of your max Health). That should keep the DPS resource management fair while giving Tanks with more HP more resources.
OR shorten the 20sec timer by 1sec per heavy armor piece equipped. That would mean we get a 13 seconds timer if we wear 7 heavy pieces. (shorter time to get anything back from light attacks but faster additonal resources)

Other issues:
- 16secs Major Ward/Major Resolve for having 7 piece heavy is way too short if you compare it with DKs 30sec one
- "Executioner" passive should be reworked to include Tanks to give them resources back
- Put "Blur" and Morphs into the Shadow Tree

I would also like to add few things after playing on my Tank after the Summerset Update:

-Dot-Suppression: We NB Tanks have no real way to suppress unpurgable dots. We have "Major Evasion" to dodge attacks but we cant dodge dots and since we dont have a magic shield we cant just endure them. While we could use the "Shadowy Disguise" morph to suppress the dots we would lose the self heal and "Minor Protection" from "Dark Cloak" and could also end up deaggro'ing the Boss.
Suggestion: 3 or so seconds of Dot Suppression when activating "Dark Cloak". This would also make the "Dark Cloak" Morph viable for non Tank NBs in Trials and PvP for a more "in your face - brawler" Type of Gameplay.


-Minor Protection Uptime Buff: The 3Secs "Minor Protection" Buff from "Dark Cloak" is too short.
Suggestion: Increase the Uptime of the Buff.


-Dark Cloak is not bursty enough: "Dark Cloak" is a great HoT but it takes 4 Ticks to give your 33% of Max HP back. In high damage fights this usually means it only mitigates the 4k/Sec Dots you have and doesnt really "heal you".
Suggestion: Give Dark Cloak a short time of Dot Suppression OR change it to 3 Ticks instead of 4 so it becomes more bursty.


-Egoistical Passives/Skills: NBs have a too egoistical Toolkit, barely bringing anything valuable to the fight for the group. (In comparison to DKs passives and active Skills: e.g. Engulfing Flames, Igneous Shield, Magma Shell, etc). We also dont have any Synergies for Team Support, except for Ultimates which take too long to fill up and have better alternatives anyway.
Suggestion: Give Skills and Passives defensive Group Support , e.g. allies get "Minor Evasion" when you activate "Mirage" or nearby allies get "Minor Protection" for 3seconds while the caster gets it for 10seconds when you activate "Dark Cloak" or make them Synergies to support the Team by giving resources back through the Undaunted Passives and Synergies.

Vietfox

I main both stam and mag nbs since i started in 2015.
1 - strife should have its cost reduced and be non reflectable.
2 - bring back the siphoning attacks we had before morrowind.
Unlike others, i'm not gonna complain for not having class shields or class remove negative effect skills (like the old cloak). I understand that each class has to be sort of unique and shouldnt expect to get all the buffs from any class.
That being said, stop with the incap nerf, just L2Counter it. It's a SINGLE target skill, dodgable and has a sound which warns you before getting hit, so does merciless proc.

russelmmendoza

My pains in being a nightblade,
1. I am a glass cannon, sure I do a lot of damage but I threw survivability out of the window.
2. I am made for sneaking and sneak attack, yet I am burdened while sneaking, I will not even call it sneaking, I call it " moving slowly to be killed fast. My stealth skill is only to be laugh at by other classes.

Yours truly.

Vietfox

I would also like to add that yeah, a skilled nb can deal great damage, but we are also way squishier than any other class. There's your damn balance.

Tonturri

1. Useless/unused morphs...or the other way around, skills that are so strong you're gimping yourself if you use anything else. Cripple -> Crippling Grasp is used 100% of the time while Debilitate has nothing going for it. Crippling Grasp is also a massively overloaded skill - it needs another look if ZOS is aiming to reduce the bloat some skills have in that one skill does a ton of things (Ranged, strong DoT, on-hit damage, root, powerful snare, major expedition). Funnel/Swallow Soul is so strong you never see people actually USING Concealed Weapon anymore - it's just slotted for the move speed.

2. Skills that are far too varying in effectiveness - sometimes they're borderline OP, other times they're useless. Shadowy Disguise, Mark, and probably a couple others I'm forgetting.

This also applies to fighting in pvp - magicka NB is very strong, but suffers horribly against anyone with projectile hate (wings, that one warden skill). This is a good opportunity to buff concealed weapon somehow so that Strife is no longer the end-all-be-all.

Strider__Roshin

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Aztlan wrote: »

In response to @Blobsky, with all due respect, Incapacitating Strike does not need a "huge nerf." As I've posted here, Incap is fundamental to the Nightblade archetype and playstyle. Significantly weakening the skill would be a shame. If anything, it could use a minor adjustment, such as placing a condition on the CC as was the case previously.

I mean I have 2 MagNB grand Overlords and a 35+ Stamblade. The fact that I use it on magicka speaks plenty, and on a stam NB itis literally a 2 second kill on most targets.

It is ridiculously overtuned and anyone saying otherwise is not here for "balance" - they are here to buff themselves or minimise the well overdue nerf.

Even if you entirely removed one of the defile or 20% damage AND upped the cost 50% to 105... It would STILL be best in slot.

All that experience and yet you're still wrong. If they were to remove the defile then Incap would be useless in PvP, and then the Stam DK would be the only Stam class not using DBoS.

If you remove the +20% damage then stamblades will once again be a dead DPS class for PvE.

Increase the cost and you'll kill it in both pve and pvp.

Literally the only fair adjustment you can make is to remove or adjust the CC.

1. High ST damage.
2. Very low cost.
3. Major defile
4. %20 damage taken debuff.

Incap is the literal definition of the ''I win'' button. But you wouldn't like that taken away, because it would break your role playing session to actually work for your kills.

I know, I know. Don't worry, Wrobel understands.

That is why even if you're so bad to the point you couldn't win with the ''I win'' button, you can always cloak away

Give Major Defile to Grim Focus and you can get rid of it from Incap. Heck I probably wouldn't even use Incap anymore if they did that.

Yep it's 40 ultimate less than Take Flight except it's ST, dodgeable, deals less damage, and it's only 5 meters rather than 28. If you die to Incap you'll die to anything.

Vietfox

Tonturri wrote: »

1. Useless/unused morphs...or the other way around, skills that are so strong you're gimping yourself if you use anything else. Cripple -> Crippling Grasp is used 100% of the time while Debilitate has nothing going for it. Crippling Grasp is also a massively overloaded skill - it needs another look if ZOS is aiming to reduce the bloat some skills have in that one skill does a ton of things (Ranged, strong DoT, on-hit damage, root, powerful snare, major expedition). Funnel/Swallow Soul is so strong you never see people actually USING Concealed Weapon anymore - it's just slotted for the move speed.

2. Skills that are far too varying in effectiveness - sometimes they're borderline OP, other times they're useless. Shadowy Disguise, Mark, and probably a couple others I'm forgetting.

This also applies to fighting in pvp - magicka NB is very strong, but suffers horribly against anyone with projectile hate (wings, that one warden skill). This is a good opportunity to buff concealed weapon somehow so that Strife is no longer the end-all-be-all.

What if...
1 - instead of nerfing grasp revamp debilitate as an AoE, like encase. Grasp can be dodged and is not as overloaded as cage.
2 - "never see people actually USING Concealed Weapon"? LOL, i won't say anything else than that xD
3 - "This is a good opportunity to buff concealed weapon somehow so that Strife is no longer the end-all-be-all." i don't really think concealed needs a buff. When i switch to my melee gear concealed deals enough damage already.

Vietfox

Daus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Aztlan wrote: »

In response to @Blobsky, with all due respect, Incapacitating Strike does not need a "huge nerf." As I've posted here, Incap is fundamental to the Nightblade archetype and playstyle. Significantly weakening the skill would be a shame. If anything, it could use a minor adjustment, such as placing a condition on the CC as was the case previously.

I mean I have 2 MagNB grand Overlords and a 35+ Stamblade. The fact that I use it on magicka speaks plenty, and on a stam NB itis literally a 2 second kill on most targets.

It is ridiculously overtuned and anyone saying otherwise is not here for "balance" - they are here to buff themselves or minimise the well overdue nerf.

Even if you entirely removed one of the defile or 20% damage AND upped the cost 50% to 105... It would STILL be best in slot.

All that experience and yet you're still wrong. If they were to remove the defile then Incap would be useless in PvP, and then the Stam DK would be the only Stam class not using DBoS.

If you remove the +20% damage then stamblades will once again be a dead DPS class for PvE.

Increase the cost and you'll kill it in both pve and pvp.

Literally the only fair adjustment you can make is to remove or adjust the CC.

1. High ST damage.
2. Very low cost.
3. Major defile
4. %20 damage taken debuff.

Incap is the literal definition of the ''I win'' button. But you wouldn't like that taken away, because it would break your role playing session to actually work for your kills.

I know, I know. Don't worry, Wrobel understands.

That is why even if you're so bad to the point you couldn't win with the ''I win'' button, you can always cloak away

Give Major Defile to Grim Focus and you can get rid of it from Incap. Heck I probably wouldn't even use Incap anymore if they did that.

Yep it's 40 ultimate less than Take Flight except it's ST, dodgeable, deals less damage, and it's only 5 meters rather than 28. If you die to Incap you'll die to anything.

I couldnt agree more with you. Some people ask to increase the ulti points for incap to 100-105 (really close to leap), while leap is what you basically said: aoe, stuns, knocks back, ranged... Just LOL

JobooAGS

Daus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Aztlan wrote: »

In response to @Blobsky, with all due respect, Incapacitating Strike does not need a "huge nerf." As I've posted here, Incap is fundamental to the Nightblade archetype and playstyle. Significantly weakening the skill would be a shame. If anything, it could use a minor adjustment, such as placing a condition on the CC as was the case previously.

I mean I have 2 MagNB grand Overlords and a 35+ Stamblade. The fact that I use it on magicka speaks plenty, and on a stam NB itis literally a 2 second kill on most targets.

It is ridiculously overtuned and anyone saying otherwise is not here for "balance" - they are here to buff themselves or minimise the well overdue nerf.

Even if you entirely removed one of the defile or 20% damage AND upped the cost 50% to 105... It would STILL be best in slot.

All that experience and yet you're still wrong. If they were to remove the defile then Incap would be useless in PvP, and then the Stam DK would be the only Stam class not using DBoS.

If you remove the +20% damage then stamblades will once again be a dead DPS class for PvE.

Increase the cost and you'll kill it in both pve and pvp.

Literally the only fair adjustment you can make is to remove or adjust the CC.

1. High ST damage.
2. Very low cost.
3. Major defile
4. %20 damage taken debuff.

Incap is the literal definition of the ''I win'' button. But you wouldn't like that taken away, because it would break your role playing session to actually work for your kills.

I know, I know. Don't worry, Wrobel understands.

That is why even if you're so bad to the point you couldn't win with the ''I win'' button, you can always cloak away

Give Major Defile to Grim Focus and you can get rid of it from Incap. Heck I probably wouldn't even use Incap anymore if they did that.

Yep it's 40 ultimate less than Take Flight except it's ST, dodgeable, deals less damage, and it's only 5 meters rather than 28. If you die to Incap you'll die to anything.

So remove stun and defile from incap/morphs, make it physical damage, and give defile to grim focus and morphs. Sounds like a sufficient enough nerf. Maybe give something extra to incap so stam people don't flock to soul harvest

BohnT

Daus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Aztlan wrote: »

In response to @Blobsky, with all due respect, Incapacitating Strike does not need a "huge nerf." As I've posted here, Incap is fundamental to the Nightblade archetype and playstyle. Significantly weakening the skill would be a shame. If anything, it could use a minor adjustment, such as placing a condition on the CC as was the case previously.

I mean I have 2 MagNB grand Overlords and a 35+ Stamblade. The fact that I use it on magicka speaks plenty, and on a stam NB itis literally a 2 second kill on most targets.

It is ridiculously overtuned and anyone saying otherwise is not here for "balance" - they are here to buff themselves or minimise the well overdue nerf.

Even if you entirely removed one of the defile or 20% damage AND upped the cost 50% to 105... It would STILL be best in slot.

All that experience and yet you're still wrong. If they were to remove the defile then Incap would be useless in PvP, and then the Stam DK would be the only Stam class not using DBoS.

If you remove the +20% damage then stamblades will once again be a dead DPS class for PvE.

Increase the cost and you'll kill it in both pve and pvp.

Literally the only fair adjustment you can make is to remove or adjust the CC.

1. High ST damage.
2. Very low cost.
3. Major defile
4. %20 damage taken debuff.

Incap is the literal definition of the ''I win'' button. But you wouldn't like that taken away, because it would break your role playing session to actually work for your kills.

I know, I know. Don't worry, Wrobel understands.

That is why even if you're so bad to the point you couldn't win with the ''I win'' button, you can always cloak away

Give Major Defile to Grim Focus and you can get rid of it from Incap. Heck I probably wouldn't even use Incap anymore if they did that.

Yep it's 40 ultimate less than Take Flight except it's ST, dodgeable, deals less damage, and it's only 5 meters rather than 28. If you die to Incap you'll die to anything.

we could swap incap and leap.
atleast then you wouldn't waste it on dwemerbots.
[removed baiting comment]

BohnT

Vietfox wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Aztlan wrote: »

In response to @Blobsky, with all due respect, Incapacitating Strike does not need a "huge nerf." As I've posted here, Incap is fundamental to the Nightblade archetype and playstyle. Significantly weakening the skill would be a shame. If anything, it could use a minor adjustment, such as placing a condition on the CC as was the case previously.

I mean I have 2 MagNB grand Overlords and a 35+ Stamblade. The fact that I use it on magicka speaks plenty, and on a stam NB itis literally a 2 second kill on most targets.

It is ridiculously overtuned and anyone saying otherwise is not here for "balance" - they are here to buff themselves or minimise the well overdue nerf.

Even if you entirely removed one of the defile or 20% damage AND upped the cost 50% to 105... It would STILL be best in slot.

All that experience and yet you're still wrong. If they were to remove the defile then Incap would be useless in PvP, and then the Stam DK would be the only Stam class not using DBoS.

If you remove the +20% damage then stamblades will once again be a dead DPS class for PvE.

Increase the cost and you'll kill it in both pve and pvp.

Literally the only fair adjustment you can make is to remove or adjust the CC.

1. High ST damage.
2. Very low cost.
3. Major defile
4. %20 damage taken debuff.

Incap is the literal definition of the ''I win'' button. But you wouldn't like that taken away, because it would break your role playing session to actually work for your kills.

I know, I know. Don't worry, Wrobel understands.

That is why even if you're so bad to the point you couldn't win with the ''I win'' button, you can always cloak away

Give Major Defile to Grim Focus and you can get rid of it from Incap. Heck I probably wouldn't even use Incap anymore if they did that.

Yep it's 40 ultimate less than Take Flight except it's ST, dodgeable, deals less damage, and it's only 5 meters rather than 28. If you die to Incap you'll die to anything.

I couldnt agree more with you. Some people ask to increase the ulti points for incap to 100-105 (really close to leap), while leap is what you basically said: aoe, stuns, knocks back, ranged... Just LOL

oh boy i can't wait for you to come back to playing just to see how you came to that conclusion

Vietfox

BohnT wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Aztlan wrote: »

In response to @Blobsky, with all due respect, Incapacitating Strike does not need a "huge nerf." As I've posted here, Incap is fundamental to the Nightblade archetype and playstyle. Significantly weakening the skill would be a shame. If anything, it could use a minor adjustment, such as placing a condition on the CC as was the case previously.

I mean I have 2 MagNB grand Overlords and a 35+ Stamblade. The fact that I use it on magicka speaks plenty, and on a stam NB itis literally a 2 second kill on most targets.

It is ridiculously overtuned and anyone saying otherwise is not here for "balance" - they are here to buff themselves or minimise the well overdue nerf.

Even if you entirely removed one of the defile or 20% damage AND upped the cost 50% to 105... It would STILL be best in slot.

All that experience and yet you're still wrong. If they were to remove the defile then Incap would be useless in PvP, and then the Stam DK would be the only Stam class not using DBoS.

If you remove the +20% damage then stamblades will once again be a dead DPS class for PvE.

Increase the cost and you'll kill it in both pve and pvp.

Literally the only fair adjustment you can make is to remove or adjust the CC.

1. High ST damage.
2. Very low cost.
3. Major defile
4. %20 damage taken debuff.

Incap is the literal definition of the ''I win'' button. But you wouldn't like that taken away, because it would break your role playing session to actually work for your kills.

I know, I know. Don't worry, Wrobel understands.

That is why even if you're so bad to the point you couldn't win with the ''I win'' button, you can always cloak away

Give Major Defile to Grim Focus and you can get rid of it from Incap. Heck I probably wouldn't even use Incap anymore if they did that.

Yep it's 40 ultimate less than Take Flight except it's ST, dodgeable, deals less damage, and it's only 5 meters rather than 28. If you die to Incap you'll die to anything.

I couldnt agree more with you. Some people ask to increase the ulti points for incap to 100-105 (really close to leap), while leap is what you basically said: aoe, stuns, knocks back, ranged... Just LOL

oh boy i can't wait for you to come back to playing just to see how you came to that conclusion

What conclusion? I just said what i've read from other people

Strider__Roshin

JobooAGS wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Aztlan wrote: »

In response to @Blobsky, with all due respect, Incapacitating Strike does not need a "huge nerf." As I've posted here, Incap is fundamental to the Nightblade archetype and playstyle. Significantly weakening the skill would be a shame. If anything, it could use a minor adjustment, such as placing a condition on the CC as was the case previously.

I mean I have 2 MagNB grand Overlords and a 35+ Stamblade. The fact that I use it on magicka speaks plenty, and on a stam NB itis literally a 2 second kill on most targets.

It is ridiculously overtuned and anyone saying otherwise is not here for "balance" - they are here to buff themselves or minimise the well overdue nerf.

Even if you entirely removed one of the defile or 20% damage AND upped the cost 50% to 105... It would STILL be best in slot.

All that experience and yet you're still wrong. If they were to remove the defile then Incap would be useless in PvP, and then the Stam DK would be the only Stam class not using DBoS.

If you remove the +20% damage then stamblades will once again be a dead DPS class for PvE.

Increase the cost and you'll kill it in both pve and pvp.

Literally the only fair adjustment you can make is to remove or adjust the CC.

1. High ST damage.
2. Very low cost.
3. Major defile
4. %20 damage taken debuff.

Incap is the literal definition of the ''I win'' button. But you wouldn't like that taken away, because it would break your role playing session to actually work for your kills.

I know, I know. Don't worry, Wrobel understands.

That is why even if you're so bad to the point you couldn't win with the ''I win'' button, you can always cloak away

Give Major Defile to Grim Focus and you can get rid of it from Incap. Heck I probably wouldn't even use Incap anymore if they did that.

Yep it's 40 ultimate less than Take Flight except it's ST, dodgeable, deals less damage, and it's only 5 meters rather than 28. If you die to Incap you'll die to anything.

So remove stun and defile from incap/morphs, make it physical damage, and give defile to grim focus and morphs. Sounds like a sufficient enough nerf. Maybe give something extra to incap so stam people don't flock to soul harvest

Man I'd love that. I'd drop Incap like a bad habit for DBoS if they did that.

Vietfox

I'll add something else: some ppl said "if nbs are using incap over soul it means there's something wrong with balance and incap is overtuned. 1 - some mag builds use Dawnbreaker as well. 2 - NB is one of the most unbalanced classes. Many magblades (not only magblades though) use 2h weapons ONLY for being able to use Forward Momentum. So next time you say "magblades using incap means there's something unbalanced"... Think twice

Tonturri

Vietfox wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

1. Useless/unused morphs...or the other way around, skills that are so strong you're gimping yourself if you use anything else. Cripple -> Crippling Grasp is used 100% of the time while Debilitate has nothing going for it. Crippling Grasp is also a massively overloaded skill - it needs another look if ZOS is aiming to reduce the bloat some skills have in that one skill does a ton of things (Ranged, strong DoT, on-hit damage, root, powerful snare, major expedition). Funnel/Swallow Soul is so strong you never see people actually USING Concealed Weapon anymore - it's just slotted for the move speed.

2. Skills that are far too varying in effectiveness - sometimes they're borderline OP, other times they're useless. Shadowy Disguise, Mark, and probably a couple others I'm forgetting.

This also applies to fighting in pvp - magicka NB is very strong, but suffers horribly against anyone with projectile hate (wings, that one warden skill). This is a good opportunity to buff concealed weapon somehow so that Strife is no longer the end-all-be-all.

What if...
1 - instead of nerfing grasp revamp debilitate as an AoE, like encase. Grasp can be dodged and is not as overloaded as cage.
2 - "never see people actually USING Concealed Weapon"? LOL, i won't say anything else than that xD
3 - "This is a good opportunity to buff concealed weapon somehow so that Strife is no longer the end-all-be-all." i don't really think concealed needs a buff. When i switch to my melee gear concealed deals enough damage already.

1 Debilitate does need a revamp, but that doesn't mean Crippling Grasp does not need toning down. It's basically free...well a lot of stuff. mnbs already have their magicka version of shuffle morph to give it plus path. Some part of grasp has got to go - it does way too much. Just compare it to every single othet class dot. I'd trade my soul and a kitten for grasp on any other class. And how did cage even come up? Geez. 'Leave my class skill alone because another class has this one ridiculously overtuned skill that's going to get nerfed soon'? C'mon.

2 Personal experience. Perhaps you have something more intelligent and constructive to offer other than "LOL"? Monkey sounds does not a discussion make. Or do you just go lel because you don't actually have anything else worth saying? :P

3 I wasn't speaking just about damage. The magicka morph effect for example is pretty useless if you don't slot cloak and aren't a ganker. They could, for example, have it give minor expedition while slotted or for a suration when used and double that as a unique buff while stealthed. Or some sort of dot. There's a ton of stuff that can be done without buffing it's direct damage.

Tonturri

BohnT wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Aztlan wrote: »

In response to @Blobsky, with all due respect, Incapacitating Strike does not need a "huge nerf." As I've posted here, Incap is fundamental to the Nightblade archetype and playstyle. Significantly weakening the skill would be a shame. If anything, it could use a minor adjustment, such as placing a condition on the CC as was the case previously.

I mean I have 2 MagNB grand Overlords and a 35+ Stamblade. The fact that I use it on magicka speaks plenty, and on a stam NB itis literally a 2 second kill on most targets.

It is ridiculously overtuned and anyone saying otherwise is not here for "balance" - they are here to buff themselves or minimise the well overdue nerf.

Even if you entirely removed one of the defile or 20% damage AND upped the cost 50% to 105... It would STILL be best in slot.

All that experience and yet you're still wrong. If they were to remove the defile then Incap would be useless in PvP, and then the Stam DK would be the only Stam class not using DBoS.

If you remove the +20% damage then stamblades will once again be a dead DPS class for PvE.

Increase the cost and you'll kill it in both pve and pvp.

Literally the only fair adjustment you can make is to remove or adjust the CC.

1. High ST damage.
2. Very low cost.
3. Major defile
4. %20 damage taken debuff.

Incap is the literal definition of the ''I win'' button. But you wouldn't like that taken away, because it would break your role playing session to actually work for your kills.

I know, I know. Don't worry, Wrobel understands.

That is why even if you're so bad to the point you couldn't win with the ''I win'' button, you can always cloak away

Give Major Defile to Grim Focus and you can get rid of it from Incap. Heck I probably wouldn't even use Incap anymore if they did that.

Yep it's 40 ultimate less than Take Flight except it's ST, dodgeable, deals less damage, and it's only 5 meters rather than 28. If you die to Incap you'll die to anything.

we could swap incap and leap.
atleast then you wouldn't waste it on dwemerbots.
[removed baiting comment]

It'd have to be a very short duration if you gave it to Focus, considering how often you can fire one off.

Not to say nbs are spewing shadow bow shots out of their rear ends 24/7, but the defile was strong enough when attached to a relatively high damage ult. I think Focus does slightly more damage, so...what exactly would be the point of that? See wondering about duration - or maybe a healing absorb instead of defile. Moar unique mechanics pls.

Vietfox

Tonturri wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

1. Useless/unused morphs...or the other way around, skills that are so strong you're gimping yourself if you use anything else. Cripple -> Crippling Grasp is used 100% of the time while Debilitate has nothing going for it. Crippling Grasp is also a massively overloaded skill - it needs another look if ZOS is aiming to reduce the bloat some skills have in that one skill does a ton of things (Ranged, strong DoT, on-hit damage, root, powerful snare, major expedition). Funnel/Swallow Soul is so strong you never see people actually USING Concealed Weapon anymore - it's just slotted for the move speed.

2. Skills that are far too varying in effectiveness - sometimes they're borderline OP, other times they're useless. Shadowy Disguise, Mark, and probably a couple others I'm forgetting.

This also applies to fighting in pvp - magicka NB is very strong, but suffers horribly against anyone with projectile hate (wings, that one warden skill). This is a good opportunity to buff concealed weapon somehow so that Strife is no longer the end-all-be-all.

What if...
1 - instead of nerfing grasp revamp debilitate as an AoE, like encase. Grasp can be dodged and is not as overloaded as cage.
2 - "never see people actually USING Concealed Weapon"? LOL, i won't say anything else than that xD
3 - "This is a good opportunity to buff concealed weapon somehow so that Strife is no longer the end-all-be-all." i don't really think concealed needs a buff. When i switch to my melee gear concealed deals enough damage already.

1 Debilitate does need a revamp, but that doesn't mean Crippling Grasp does not need toning down. It's basically free...well a lot of stuff. mnbs already have their magicka version of shuffle morph to give it plus path. Some part of grasp has got to go - it does way too much. Just compare it to every single othet class dot. I'd trade my soul and a kitten for grasp on any other class. And how did cage even come up? Geez. 'Leave my class skill alone because another class has this one ridiculously overtuned skill that's going to get nerfed soon'? C'mon.

2 Personal experience. Perhaps you have something more intelligent and constructive to offer other than "LOL"? Monkey sounds does not a discussion make. Or do you just go lel because you don't actually have anything else worth saying? :P

3 I wasn't speaking just about damage. The magicka morph effect for example is pretty useless if you don't slot cloak and aren't a ganker. They could, for example, have it give minor expedition while slotted or for a suration when used and double that as a unique buff while stealthed. Or some sort of dot. There's a ton of stuff that can be done without buffing it's direct damage.

1 - Not a single smart mnb would have both blur AND path in their skill bars

2 - ok, personal experience, i get it. BUT in my personal experience (including myself depending on my mood) there are many melee mnbs around.

3 - the mag morph might be useless to you, but not to me. Is not related to exp buff, so can be easily stacked with other expedition buffs, and that's a great advantatge. I've even met stamblades using the magicka morph

Tonturri

Vietfox wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

1. Useless/unused morphs...or the other way around, skills that are so strong you're gimping yourself if you use anything else. Cripple -> Crippling Grasp is used 100% of the time while Debilitate has nothing going for it. Crippling Grasp is also a massively overloaded skill - it needs another look if ZOS is aiming to reduce the bloat some skills have in that one skill does a ton of things (Ranged, strong DoT, on-hit damage, root, powerful snare, major expedition). Funnel/Swallow Soul is so strong you never see people actually USING Concealed Weapon anymore - it's just slotted for the move speed.

2. Skills that are far too varying in effectiveness - sometimes they're borderline OP, other times they're useless. Shadowy Disguise, Mark, and probably a couple others I'm forgetting.

This also applies to fighting in pvp - magicka NB is very strong, but suffers horribly against anyone with projectile hate (wings, that one warden skill). This is a good opportunity to buff concealed weapon somehow so that Strife is no longer the end-all-be-all.

What if...
1 - instead of nerfing grasp revamp debilitate as an AoE, like encase. Grasp can be dodged and is not as overloaded as cage.
2 - "never see people actually USING Concealed Weapon"? LOL, i won't say anything else than that xD
3 - "This is a good opportunity to buff concealed weapon somehow so that Strife is no longer the end-all-be-all." i don't really think concealed needs a buff. When i switch to my melee gear concealed deals enough damage already.

1 Debilitate does need a revamp, but that doesn't mean Crippling Grasp does not need toning down. It's basically free...well a lot of stuff. mnbs already have their magicka version of shuffle morph to give it plus path. Some part of grasp has got to go - it does way too much. Just compare it to every single othet class dot. I'd trade my soul and a kitten for grasp on any other class. And how did cage even come up? Geez. 'Leave my class skill alone because another class has this one ridiculously overtuned skill that's going to get nerfed soon'? C'mon.

2 Personal experience. Perhaps you have something more intelligent and constructive to offer other than "LOL"? Monkey sounds does not a discussion make. Or do you just go lel because you don't actually have anything else worth saying? :P

3 I wasn't speaking just about damage. The magicka morph effect for example is pretty useless if you don't slot cloak and aren't a ganker. They could, for example, have it give minor expedition while slotted or for a suration when used and double that as a unique buff while stealthed. Or some sort of dot. There's a ton of stuff that can be done without buffing it's direct damage.

1 - Not a single smart mnb would have both blur AND path in their skill bars

2 - ok, personal experience, i get it. BUT in my personal experience (including myself depending on my mood) there are many melee mnbs around.

3 - the mag morph might be useless to you, but not to me. Is not related to exp buff, so can be easily stacked with other expedition buffs, and that's a great advantatge. I've even met stamblades using the magicka morph

1 point is that they have three easy class skills that give the buff that are worth slotting for reasons other than just the buff. And really, I think grasp losing the snare would be perfectly fine, doesn't have to be the speed boost.

2 Better

3 Never said it was useless - just that I've really only seen it used for the speed buff, never for 'oh boy a really nice melee skill I'll use as a main spammable'. In all seriousness, do tell - am I being unclear here? I geared my last two posts towards - I though- the usability of the speed buff, and that I found it lackluster otherwise, but you seem to keep replying...concerning the strength of the speed buff when you could actually make use of it, which I'm not debating.

In any case, I'll try again. I have only ever seen Concealed valued as a result of its synergy with cloak and gank builds, and while it remains a perfectly viable alternative as a spammable for magicka nightblades, damage wise, it seems that a decent chunk of mnbs still complain about issues against reflects. So I wanted to make the skill more attractive to builds that didn't slot cloak - zos even gave us a heal morph of cloak, which I personally find too weak to use but...for the more brawly mnbs, I think adding some out of stealth functionality to Concealed is something worth pursuing.

Ragnarock41

Aztlan wrote: »

Here we go again. Let's not start another argument about whether or not Incap should be adjusted. And why be so rude about it? I think Kena has all the feedback he needs on this point.

Oh sure, lets not discuss about what clearly overperforms in a threat about what overperforms and what underperforms.

Daus wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

Aztlan wrote: »

In response to @Blobsky, with all due respect, Incapacitating Strike does not need a "huge nerf." As I've posted here, Incap is fundamental to the Nightblade archetype and playstyle. Significantly weakening the skill would be a shame. If anything, it could use a minor adjustment, such as placing a condition on the CC as was the case previously.

I mean I have 2 MagNB grand Overlords and a 35+ Stamblade. The fact that I use it on magicka speaks plenty, and on a stam NB itis literally a 2 second kill on most targets.

It is ridiculously overtuned and anyone saying otherwise is not here for "balance" - they are here to buff themselves or minimise the well overdue nerf.

Even if you entirely removed one of the defile or 20% damage AND upped the cost 50% to 105... It would STILL be best in slot.

All that experience and yet you're still wrong. If they were to remove the defile then Incap would be useless in PvP, and then the Stam DK would be the only Stam class not using DBoS.

If you remove the +20% damage then stamblades will once again be a dead DPS class for PvE.

Increase the cost and you'll kill it in both pve and pvp.

Literally the only fair adjustment you can make is to remove or adjust the CC.

1. High ST damage.
2. Very low cost.
3. Major defile
4. %20 damage taken debuff.

Incap is the literal definition of the ''I win'' button. But you wouldn't like that taken away, because it would break your role playing session to actually work for your kills.

I know, I know. Don't worry, Wrobel understands.

That is why even if you're so bad to the point you couldn't win with the ''I win'' button, you can always cloak away

Give Major Defile to Grim Focus and you can get rid of it from Incap. Heck I probably wouldn't even use Incap anymore if they did that.

Yep it's 40 ultimate less than Take Flight except it's ST, dodgeable, deals less damage, and it's only 5 meters rather than 28. If you die to Incap you'll die to anything.

Oh yeah, that is why everywhere is filled with stamblades rather than stamDks. My bad lmao. But maybe if you tried incapping players instead of their pets, you would realize how strong it is, don't you agree

Vietfox

Tonturri wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

1. Useless/unused morphs...or the other way around, skills that are so strong you're gimping yourself if you use anything else. Cripple -> Crippling Grasp is used 100% of the time while Debilitate has nothing going for it. Crippling Grasp is also a massively overloaded skill - it needs another look if ZOS is aiming to reduce the bloat some skills have in that one skill does a ton of things (Ranged, strong DoT, on-hit damage, root, powerful snare, major expedition). Funnel/Swallow Soul is so strong you never see people actually USING Concealed Weapon anymore - it's just slotted for the move speed.

2. Skills that are far too varying in effectiveness - sometimes they're borderline OP, other times they're useless. Shadowy Disguise, Mark, and probably a couple others I'm forgetting.

This also applies to fighting in pvp - magicka NB is very strong, but suffers horribly against anyone with projectile hate (wings, that one warden skill). This is a good opportunity to buff concealed weapon somehow so that Strife is no longer the end-all-be-all.

What if...
1 - instead of nerfing grasp revamp debilitate as an AoE, like encase. Grasp can be dodged and is not as overloaded as cage.
2 - "never see people actually USING Concealed Weapon"? LOL, i won't say anything else than that xD
3 - "This is a good opportunity to buff concealed weapon somehow so that Strife is no longer the end-all-be-all." i don't really think concealed needs a buff. When i switch to my melee gear concealed deals enough damage already.

1 Debilitate does need a revamp, but that doesn't mean Crippling Grasp does not need toning down. It's basically free...well a lot of stuff. mnbs already have their magicka version of shuffle morph to give it plus path. Some part of grasp has got to go - it does way too much. Just compare it to every single othet class dot. I'd trade my soul and a kitten for grasp on any other class. And how did cage even come up? Geez. 'Leave my class skill alone because another class has this one ridiculously overtuned skill that's going to get nerfed soon'? C'mon.

2 Personal experience. Perhaps you have something more intelligent and constructive to offer other than "LOL"? Monkey sounds does not a discussion make. Or do you just go lel because you don't actually have anything else worth saying? :P

3 I wasn't speaking just about damage. The magicka morph effect for example is pretty useless if you don't slot cloak and aren't a ganker. They could, for example, have it give minor expedition while slotted or for a suration when used and double that as a unique buff while stealthed. Or some sort of dot. There's a ton of stuff that can be done without buffing it's direct damage.

1 - Not a single smart mnb would have both blur AND path in their skill bars

2 - ok, personal experience, i get it. BUT in my personal experience (including myself depending on my mood) there are many melee mnbs around.

3 - the mag morph might be useless to you, but not to me. Is not related to exp buff, so can be easily stacked with other expedition buffs, and that's a great advantatge. I've even met stamblades using the magicka morph

1 point is that they have three easy class skills that give the buff that are worth slotting for reasons other than just the buff. And really, I think grasp losing the snare would be perfectly fine, doesn't have to be the speed boost.

2 Better

3 Never said it was useless - just that I've really only seen it used for the speed buff, never for 'oh boy a really nice melee skill I'll use as a main spammable'. In all seriousness, do tell - am I being unclear here? I geared my last two posts towards - I though- the usability of the speed buff, and that I found it lackluster otherwise, but you seem to keep replying...concerning the strength of the speed buff when you could actually make use of it, which I'm not debating.

In any case, I'll try again. I have only ever seen Concealed valued as a result of its synergy with cloak and gank builds, and while it remains a perfectly viable alternative as a spammable for magicka nightblades, damage wise, it seems that a decent chunk of mnbs still complain about issues against reflects. So I wanted to make the skill more attractive to builds that didn't slot cloak - zos even gave us a heal morph of cloak, which I personally find too weak to use but...for the more brawly mnbs, I think adding some out of stealth functionality to Concealed is something worth pursuing.

Dude, that's a long debate. You are talking about skills but skill effectiveness actually depends on personal playstyle.

Concealed is strong enough and magblades shouldnt ask for a buff on that skill. If mnbs use it only for the synergy they are using it in the wrong way.

About reflects, melee mnbs shouldnt complain xD, but i do find unfair that the ranged mag skill "strife" is reflected by wings. Doesnt make any sense simce i'm pulling (while dealing dmg) health to me.

About the new Dark cloak moprh, i used to use the minor protection morph, but i think that was a good change for other nbs willing to be a tank. It is useless to me, but you will never see me complaining about it cause i think it's good to add diversity and remove the class-role attachment

cpuScientist

Vietfox wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

1. Useless/unused morphs...or the other way around, skills that are so strong you're gimping yourself if you use anything else. Cripple -> Crippling Grasp is used 100% of the time while Debilitate has nothing going for it. Crippling Grasp is also a massively overloaded skill - it needs another look if ZOS is aiming to reduce the bloat some skills have in that one skill does a ton of things (Ranged, strong DoT, on-hit damage, root, powerful snare, major expedition). Funnel/Swallow Soul is so strong you never see people actually USING Concealed Weapon anymore - it's just slotted for the move speed.

2. Skills that are far too varying in effectiveness - sometimes they're borderline OP, other times they're useless. Shadowy Disguise, Mark, and probably a couple others I'm forgetting.

This also applies to fighting in pvp - magicka NB is very strong, but suffers horribly against anyone with projectile hate (wings, that one warden skill). This is a good opportunity to buff concealed weapon somehow so that Strife is no longer the end-all-be-all.

What if...
1 - instead of nerfing grasp revamp debilitate as an AoE, like encase. Grasp can be dodged and is not as overloaded as cage.
2 - "never see people actually USING Concealed Weapon"? LOL, i won't say anything else than that xD
3 - "This is a good opportunity to buff concealed weapon somehow so that Strife is no longer the end-all-be-all." i don't really think concealed needs a buff. When i switch to my melee gear concealed deals enough damage already.

1 Debilitate does need a revamp, but that doesn't mean Crippling Grasp does not need toning down. It's basically free...well a lot of stuff. mnbs already have their magicka version of shuffle morph to give it plus path. Some part of grasp has got to go - it does way too much. Just compare it to every single othet class dot. I'd trade my soul and a kitten for grasp on any other class. And how did cage even come up? Geez. 'Leave my class skill alone because another class has this one ridiculously overtuned skill that's going to get nerfed soon'? C'mon.

2 Personal experience. Perhaps you have something more intelligent and constructive to offer other than "LOL"? Monkey sounds does not a discussion make. Or do you just go lel because you don't actually have anything else worth saying? :P

3 I wasn't speaking just about damage. The magicka morph effect for example is pretty useless if you don't slot cloak and aren't a ganker. They could, for example, have it give minor expedition while slotted or for a suration when used and double that as a unique buff while stealthed. Or some sort of dot. There's a ton of stuff that can be done without buffing it's direct damage.

1 - Not a single smart mnb would have both blur AND path in their skill bars

2 - ok, personal experience, i get it. BUT in my personal experience (including myself depending on my mood) there are many melee mnbs around.

3 - the mag morph might be useless to you, but not to me. Is not related to exp buff, so can be easily stacked with other expedition buffs, and that's a great advantatge. I've even met stamblades using the magicka morph

1 point is that they have three easy class skills that give the buff that are worth slotting for reasons other than just the buff. And really, I think grasp losing the snare would be perfectly fine, doesn't have to be the speed boost.

2 Better

3 Never said it was useless - just that I've really only seen it used for the speed buff, never for 'oh boy a really nice melee skill I'll use as a main spammable'. In all seriousness, do tell - am I being unclear here? I geared my last two posts towards - I though- the usability of the speed buff, and that I found it lackluster otherwise, but you seem to keep replying...concerning the strength of the speed buff when you could actually make use of it, which I'm not debating.

In any case, I'll try again. I have only ever seen Concealed valued as a result of its synergy with cloak and gank builds, and while it remains a perfectly viable alternative as a spammable for magicka nightblades, damage wise, it seems that a decent chunk of mnbs still complain about issues against reflects. So I wanted to make the skill more attractive to builds that didn't slot cloak - zos even gave us a heal morph of cloak, which I personally find too weak to use but...for the more brawly mnbs, I think adding some out of stealth functionality to Concealed is something worth pursuing.

Dude, that's a long debate. You are talking about skills but skill effectiveness actually depends on personal playstyle.

Concealed is strong enough and magblades shouldnt ask for a buff on that skill. If mnbs use it only for the synergy they are using it in the wrong way.

About reflects, melee mnbs shouldnt complain xD, but i do find unfair that the ranged mag skill "strife" is reflected by wings. Doesnt make any sense simce i'm pulling (while dealing dmg) health to me.

About the new Dark cloak moprh, i used to use the minor protection morph, but i think that was a good change for other nbs willing to be a tank. It is useless to me, but you will never see me complaining about it cause i think it's good to add diversity and remove the class-role attachment

Ok I agree strife should not be reflected. But watch it cloooooosely ans you actually shoot a projectile forward THEN pull something off them. There is legit a projectile that I only noticed last month after 3+yrs

cpuScientist

Pain points.

1. Strife reflectable. To be so fully countered that their is no true counterplay besides slotting pulse and losing your magbladeness is very depressing.

2. Just point 1 again just that