Make Battlegrounds relevant again.

exeeter702

SirDopey wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

When they'll add a ranking sistem, the BG pop will skyrocket

There will never be nor should there be a ranking system for bgs as long a ZOS insists on keeping them casual 3 team mini game nonsense.

People claiming in depth strategy in 3 way bgs .... lol please. Bgs are "fun" enough but anyone that tries to take them seriously should in turn not be taken seriously.

Guessing you get rolled a lot in BGs???

Lol.. come on now.. On the contrary. Did i pinch a nerve? Do you feel insulted? The reality is roughly 90 percent of the players you generally come across are really bad which speaks entirely on bgs as a whole. You see the same small group of solid players with all the cannon fodder filling in the blanks.






Just some recent ones. This is generally how it goes everytime.

My opinion of bgs comes from a place where i really appreciate competetive pvp and acknowledging the inherent sillyness of ESOs bgs, when directly compared to various other mmos that have done it infinitely better.

You should at the very least try to convey a compelling argument isntead of the limp "you must get rolled in bgs thats why you dislike them!"

Bgs are a silly side game for casual past time fun to kill some time and should noy be taken seriously in any capacity.

Completely disagree with you, just because you don't like something doesn't inherently make it stupid and not something to be taken seriously. Ok, so its not your cup of tea, that's fine, but there are plenty of players that really do enjoy it and do take it seriously and do want to see it survive longer than one patch cycle. Anyone that loves this game should want to see a healthy population in all aspects of what its offering.

I didn't start this thread to compare ESO PVP (Cyro or BG) to other MMOs, I was comparing BG's population from a few weeks ago to now and offering a solution to getting more traffic in there. I really don't care how "silly" you think BGs is, your's is just one opinion out of millions, a moo point really. Having more people in there isn't going to be hurting you if you find it so "silly"

Understand my implication is not to see bgs as they are in eso to fail and become dead.. I also never said that you cannot find enjoyment out of them. What i said is that there are far to many people that put too much stock into them as being well structured and competitively balanced pvp experiences.

They are not. If they were, they would be far more popular then they currently are. Reward Incentives are only a key motivator for players that want a measurable return on their time investment. Players that truly just want an avenue to play against other players in a controlled environment to demonstrate their ability vs others were hoping for just that and no amount of ap increase is going to push them into it. The only thing that increased rewards for bgs would do is have more average players filling the queues to farm currency X or Y for whatever reason. Which only serves to further remove conpetetive minded players from bothering with the content.

The reality is they are not very popular any more. The queues on both pc and ps4 have worsened noticably. 4v4v4 with gimicks is inherently non competitive at its core. This is why the only solution you are seeking is material rewards to fill the queus with players that frankly dont give a ***.

Lord Xanhorn

Chalk another system failed because of ESO's endgame mentality. Everyone says they hate WoW style gear grinds but WoW never seems to have the end game problems that ESO has.

ESO endgame is a dumpster fire and will continue to be until either the game dies cause there's not enough new players to attract or they change their end game system.

Thogard

>extensive PvP background and experience
>console player


Pick one...

wildbear247

I was really excited and had a lot of hope for Battlegrounds. I played it one weekend after Morrowind dropped and was very disappointed...to the point that I got a refund from ZoS for Morrowind. My main issues with BGs follow:

1) The rewards are crap. Lackluster AP and gear that isn't great and will continue to drop in price for those selling it. It would be cool if there was a simple way to turn BG rewards into something useful (like the IC and how telvar can be used to buy other gear or crafting materials).
2) They need to separate the premades from the PUGs.
3) 4x4x4...this setup just isn't very fun to me. Would like to see a 6v6 and a big team battle mode like 10v10 added. Have all three options available to players: 4v4v4, 6v6, and 10v10.
4) Allow us to choose our game mode. The modes I enjoy are the ones that are based on actually fighting other players, not sprinting away with the flag. And if (when?) they add a 6v6 or 10v10, those are the modes I would most want to play.

The issues above should have been addressed during development. Players have been asking for BGs for a looooong time, and for ZOS not to get as much player feedback as possible during BGs development shows an alarming disregard for the players. Here we are 3 months after release and we still don't have any meaningful feedback from ZOS about how it plans to improve BGs for the future.

For me...that part in bold really hit home. ZOS needs to really engage us PvP'rs (all of us, not just on forums or streamers) to make Battlegrounds better. Communicate with us (surveys, polls, emails, etc.)...ask us what features we'd like to see added. I mean they added Chaosball with HoTR and I was just shaking my head in disappointment...given the other issues with BGs, Chaosball created 0/zero interest in me to repurchase Morrowind. Actually at this point just to address the low population issue, they might want to consider having BGs as a one time purchase of $10 (not crowns) that would be separate from Morrowind.

Sylosi

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

Chalk another system failed because of ESO's endgame mentality. Everyone says they hate WoW style gear grinds but WoW never seems to have the end game problems that ESO has.

ESO endgame is a dumpster fire and will continue to be until either the game dies cause there's not enough new players to attract or they change their end game system.

To be fair there are not enough new players in MMORPGs full stop, the MMORPG genre is in decline (even WoW).

Jade1986

Skander wrote: »

When they'll add a ranking sistem, the BG pop will skyrocket

No , it wont.

I called this from before BG was even implemented. Small scale pvp always fails in nearly Every. Single. MMO. It is a tried and failed game type and even after many mmo devs added a ranking system, it just got more toxic, had more win trading occur, and drove even more players away. ZoS should have never implemented this feature and should have instead focused on improving cyro and their hallmark open world pvp. I give it a few months and the numbers will probably dwindle to where they are at in swtor for BG.

Jade1986

Thogard wrote: »

Unfortunately at this point, permanently separating the premades from the PUGs will cause too long of a delay in the queue.

As it is now, if you play a lot you can tell that the system TRIES to separate the PUGs from the premades. this is most noticeable when 3/4 of your group gets ported into the BG but the fourth was zoning or something and didn't port in. If they then try to join as a solo during prime time, even if you have an open slot on your team, they'll often get put into a PUG BG with no premades.

Also do this: if you get put into a BG during prime time, and you queue up as a solo but end up fighting a premade, try asking your group if they're a premade too. Many times, the answer is yes and you are the "flex" spot stolen from the PUG queue to make the game happen.

I think once the game progresses and certain strategies become more common, as well as the BG group maker actually trying to build fair teams so that each team has healer, DPS, DPS, and tank (who's actually a DPS or off healer) then it'll be more fair.

As is, there are already plenty of players that can get put as the fourth with a three man premade and perform perfectly. And there are some players that are so high-impact that they can carry an otherwise terrible group.. @DubzugPvP @zendran @cardinal05 @trinitops @karlotta @ali_sabre and a few others are all good examples.

The queue time arguement is just false as can be. Allowing premades to fight pugs is one of the reasons bgs failed in a lot of other mmos. People will get tired of facing optimized premades, and will stop playing. Same thing happened in swtor. Honestly, with BG's I feel like I am watching a 1 for 1 mirror of what went wrong in swtor small scale pvp.

Tandor

SirDopey wrote: »

Since the PVP Event Battleground queue times have been getting worse each day as less people play. This is for primetime Australia on PC/NA, not sure if it's true for other platforms and time zones but I'm sure it will happen soon enough.

I imagine one of the reasons it's been quiet for primetime Australia recently is that few Australians have been able to play due to the various technical issues such as the broken undersea cable.

Nemeliom

It's always the same people playing BGs. Same premades against pugs. I got bored fast.

Avnr

Most dont know , or know and ignore , or who give a ####

1.BG is no CP server , huge drop in dps , tanking , healing , resources...
2.no ranking systems - no mercy
3.pre made teams - they know what they do , allways working as group , group healing and all
4.for fast enter most pick healer or tank roll , so there is no real healer in group

Still i have great fun after HOR update w/o those deadly proc set
It's all random players with no comms just hi when BG start... somtimes we win somtimes we lose...

Teridaxus

Well premades did an awesome job sucking the fun out of it.
No level requirments and no attempts to balance teams ( seriously 3 lvl 10-20 and 2 of them are in the same team while one team is all cp atleast )
Ap rewards are trash.
Item sets are okayish/limited use.
Ppv imbalance can be felt a lot easier in small scale pvp.

Tan9oSuccka

I think the idea of allowing preformed yolo swag groups versus at team of ragtag pugs is a disaster from the start.

I would rather do just about anything else in the game. Including participating in horrible cat RP or listen to Lysette Chauvry.

Demycilian

Reminds me of WildStar, where premades utterly destroyed bgs. Only that the ESO bgs died way faster, as this game has less ambitious players, i would imagine

Kilandros

Again? They were never relevant.

I mean, let's be honest about BGs for a minute: The group finder is absolute trash and prohibits the "jump in and play" goals for which BGs were designed. And as if waiting 20 minutes for a single match isn't bad enough, the group finder is unable to provide players the option to search as "mercenaries" (as CoD calls it) which guarantees you won't be matched against organized / pre-made groups.

Then, once you finally get matched, the game modes are all over-though bastardizations of classic game modes like Domination and Capture the Flag. Instead of classic two teams squaring off against 3 flags in Domination or 2 flags in CTF, BGs are some weird forced 4v4v4 with awkward objectives that simply promotes one of the three teams circle the map and avoid conflict entirely to play objectives. Classic Domination and CTF work because it's two teams focusing each other's objectives.

And why do 4v4v4 in the first place instead of just 4v4? So BGs could imitate Cyrodiil? So they could imitate what is already a cautionary tale on how to kill a robust PvP community?

BGs feel so forced and artificial that they will never really pick up steam even if the group finder is fixed.

Kartalin

wildbear247 wrote: »

3) 4x4x4...this setup just isn't very fun to me. Would like to see a 6v6 and a big team battle mode like 10v10 added. Have all three options available to players: 4v4v4, 6v6, and 10v10.
4) Allow us to choose our game mode. The modes I enjoy are the ones that are based on actually fighting other players, not sprinting away with the flag. And if (when?) they add a 6v6 or 10v10, those are the modes I would most want to play.

I don't know that adding additional modes for different sized groups will help with the way things are currently set up with BGs. It will take an already relatively small pool of bg players and try to stretch it further.

That said I think the real thing we wanted out of BGs all along was smaller scale fights with even numbered teams, something that we simply can't count on in Cyrodiil. So being able to challenge another pvp guild to a 6v6 or 10v10 would be amazing, without the power sigil nonsense. Just Deathmatch all the time, that's what I want lol.

Thogard wrote: »

@karlotta

Ha! I don't always see it that way but I appreciate it. Sometimes @Taylor_MB carries me

badmojo

I dont play BG because I dont have 3 other players ready to help at any time. After grinding out a whopping ONE win during the event, I will never queue for BG with less than 4.

Queue times are longer now because BG are so unfun to average players we had to be forced to play it by dangling an achievement and crown in front of us.....but endure that punishment for nothing? HA!

Fix it and we will come. Give us a pool of only solo players. Give us ranks so new players arent matched against the top players. Make it a spectator sport. BG are good in theory, but poor exexution has killed their potential.

Rohaus

yes, it took ZOS way way too long to fix the queue system... should never go live with something like that with as broken as it was... complete turn off for a lot of folks..

Ahh well... people will forget about the atrocious delivery of battlegrounds eventually... however, it is up to ZOS to create proper incentive for people to want to do it... you really need to get more people in there including carebears and the only way you are going to do that is to give really nice incentives! BOP incentives is what I am talking about... keep the current BOE stuff but include some highly sought after BOP items and GG!

I think it would be cool to get dungeon items for instances... not talking about end game dungeon loot... but something like the Automaton set... I don't want to farm a dungeon to use a set like that for PvP... BUT... if you put a set like that as a reward for participating in Battlegrounds... ya... I think that would draw in a lot more peeps...

And to those of you who think leaderboards will draw in tons of peeps... no, it will not... it will only draw in elitist pricks like me! haha

Make it happen, captain!

exeeter702

Thogard wrote: »

>extensive PvP background and experience
>console player


Pick one...

I dont even know what this is supposed to mean. There are plenty of people that come from a very involved mmo backround that choose to play this particular game on console. Nor does this have any bearing on the subject at hand.

Thogard

Kartalin wrote: »

wildbear247 wrote: »

3) 4x4x4...this setup just isn't very fun to me. Would like to see a 6v6 and a big team battle mode like 10v10 added. Have all three options available to players: 4v4v4, 6v6, and 10v10.
4) Allow us to choose our game mode. The modes I enjoy are the ones that are based on actually fighting other players, not sprinting away with the flag. And if (when?) they add a 6v6 or 10v10, those are the modes I would most want to play.

I don't know that adding additional modes for different sized groups will help with the way things are currently set up with BGs. It will take an already relatively small pool of bg players and try to stretch it further.

That said I think the real thing we wanted out of BGs all along was smaller scale fights with even numbered teams, something that we simply can't count on in Cyrodiil. So being able to challenge another pvp guild to a 6v6 or 10v10 would be amazing, without the power sigil nonsense. Just Deathmatch all the time, that's what I want lol.

Thogard wrote: »

@karlotta

Ha! I don't always see it that way but I appreciate it. Sometimes @Taylor_MB carries me

One of the DPS guys in my BG guild was saying that he and @Taylor_MB we're doing BGs and won a 2v10. That doesn't make sense because the most opponents you can face is 8.... but the sentiment was that they did well. We actually got tay to run in a guild group with us last Friday but we didn't get to fight any good groups. That dude has a lot of mechanics knowledge and really knows his class and how to play it.

I'm still not sold on running a tank in the BGs, but I'm closer to being sold on it than I was before we grouped him

Taylor_MB

Rumour has it I once solo'd the Daedra bridge guards in Cyrodiil and then (on my Nightblade) dragon leaped across into the IC where I proceeded to murder the district bosses just by using eclipse.

Who knows what to believe these days, purveyors of fake news everywhere.

Jade1986

Demycilian wrote: »

Reminds me of WildStar, where premades utterly destroyed bgs. Only that the ESO bgs died way faster, as this game has less ambitious players, i would imagine

I think it is the fact that people have seen this before and were disheartened really REALLY quick. Honestly, now that I know it is EXACTLY like swtor, I wont touch BGs -ever. I CANNOT believe ZoS didnt learn from Wildstar and SWTORs mistake. Its like MMO devs live in a vacuum and wont learn from other companies at all.

SanTii.92

Based on what are you saying bgs population is low? It doesn't take more than two or three minutes to find a group when i queue, and i play quite some bgs per week, do very well with scores, and still struggle to get into the leaderboards. Game is fine, i would appreciate a leaderboard based on w/l ratio instead of grind, and the queue to consider skill somhow when forming groups, but it's still enjoyable.

Thogard

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Based on what are you saying bgs population is low? It doesn't take more than two or three minutes to find a group when i queue, and i play quite some bgs per week, do very well with scores, and still struggle to get into the leaderboards. Game is fine, i would appreciate a leaderboard based on w/l ratio instead of grind, and the queue to consider skill somhow when forming groups, but it's still enjoyable.

I find myself constantly playing games with the same people, but if I take a 5 min break to make more potions and then requeue then I'll probably be with a different group.

I think the belief that not many people play comes from the fact that many times when you immediately requeue, so is everyone else from the game you just finished, and you get placed together again.

But it is pretty dead during the Australian time zone. Not many aussies left playing.

Datolite

SirDopey wrote: »

a moo point really.

Toc de Malsvi

exeeter702 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

>extensive PvP background and experience
>console player


Pick one...

I dont even know what this is supposed to mean. There are plenty of people that come from a very involved mmo backround that choose to play this particular game on console. Nor does this have any bearing on the subject at hand.

^This. Played WoW for 7 years, played LoL, played FF14, played several other MMO's, but I also played CoD, Halo, Destiny, Gears, Battlefield. I played ESO initially on PC then switched when console came out, while MMO experience may be limited on console PVP experience is certainly not. Personally I think ESO is a better game on console, it sucks that console often gets treated as a step child and everything is delayed but I enjoy the game much more on console than on PC. I still get on PC for the PTS.

Cinbri

New mode in U16 sounds fun. Hopefully as fun as deathmatch, so people will be forced to fight.

SanTii.92

Thogard wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Based on what are you saying bgs population is low? It doesn't take more than two or three minutes to find a group when i queue, and i play quite some bgs per week, do very well with scores, and still struggle to get into the leaderboards. Game is fine, i would appreciate a leaderboard based on w/l ratio instead of grind, and the queue to consider skill somhow when forming groups, but it's still enjoyable.

I find myself constantly playing games with the same people, but if I take a 5 min break to make more potions and then requeue then I'll probably be with a different group.

I think the belief that not many people play comes from the fact that many times when you immediately requeue, so is everyone else from the game you just finished, and you get placed together again.

But it is pretty dead during the Australian time zone. Not many aussies left playing.

I often play quite late into eastern night and still doesn't take long to find a game when queuing alone. I don't know, but if I were to do something I guess i'd start with trying Cp Bgs and maybe reworking rewards, increase Ap gains, and a sachle similar to what we had on the last event, with chances of gold mats, reagents or even motifs, instead of the bg sets.

Thogard

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Based on what are you saying bgs population is low? It doesn't take more than two or three minutes to find a group when i queue, and i play quite some bgs per week, do very well with scores, and still struggle to get into the leaderboards. Game is fine, i would appreciate a leaderboard based on w/l ratio instead of grind, and the queue to consider skill somhow when forming groups, but it's still enjoyable.

I find myself constantly playing games with the same people, but if I take a 5 min break to make more potions and then requeue then I'll probably be with a different group.

I think the belief that not many people play comes from the fact that many times when you immediately requeue, so is everyone else from the game you just finished, and you get placed together again.

But it is pretty dead during the Australian time zone. Not many aussies left playing.

I often play quite late into eastern night and still doesn't take long to find a game when queuing alone. I don't know, but if I were to do something I guess i'd start with trying Cp Bgs and maybe reworking rewards, increase Ap gains, and a sachle similar to what we had on the last event, with chances of gold mats, reagents or even motifs, instead of the weapons.

I'm West coast. It starts to slow down around 1AM pacific (4AM est)

They really need to make kills in BGs count for AP.

Toc de Malsvi

exeeter702 wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

When they'll add a ranking sistem, the BG pop will skyrocket

There will never be nor should there be a ranking system for bgs as long a ZOS insists on keeping them casual 3 team mini game nonsense.

People claiming in depth strategy in 3 way bgs .... lol please. Bgs are "fun" enough but anyone that tries to take them seriously should in turn not be taken seriously.

Guessing you get rolled a lot in BGs???

Lol.. come on now.. On the contrary. Did i pinch a nerve? Do you feel insulted? The reality is roughly 90 percent of the players you generally come across are really bad which speaks entirely on bgs as a whole. You see the same small group of solid players with all the cannon fodder filling in the blanks.






Just some recent ones. This is generally how it goes everytime.

My opinion of bgs comes from a place where i really appreciate competetive pvp and acknowledging the inherent sillyness of ESOs bgs, when directly compared to various other mmos that have done it infinitely better.

You should at the very least try to convey a compelling argument isntead of the limp "you must get rolled in bgs thats why you dislike them!"

Bgs are a silly side game for casual past time fun to kill some time and should noy be taken seriously in any capacity.

Completely disagree with you, just because you don't like something doesn't inherently make it stupid and not something to be taken seriously. Ok, so its not your cup of tea, that's fine, but there are plenty of players that really do enjoy it and do take it seriously and do want to see it survive longer than one patch cycle. Anyone that loves this game should want to see a healthy population in all aspects of what its offering.

I didn't start this thread to compare ESO PVP (Cyro or BG) to other MMOs, I was comparing BG's population from a few weeks ago to now and offering a solution to getting more traffic in there. I really don't care how "silly" you think BGs is, your's is just one opinion out of millions, a moo point really. Having more people in there isn't going to be hurting you if you find it so "silly"

Understand my implication is not to see bgs as they are in eso to fail and become dead.. I also never said that you cannot find enjoyment out of them. What i said is that there are far to many people that put too much stock into them as being well structured and competitively balanced pvp experiences.

They are not. If they were, they would be far more popular then they currently are. Reward Incentives are only a key motivator for players that want a measurable return on their time investment. Players that truly just want an avenue to play against other players in a controlled environment to demonstrate their ability vs others were hoping for just that and no amount of ap increase is going to push them into it. The only thing that increased rewards for bgs would do is have more average players filling the queues to farm currency X or Y for whatever reason. Which only serves to further remove conpetetive minded players from bothering with the content.

The reality is they are not very popular any more. The queues on both pc and ps4 have worsened noticably. 4v4v4 with gimicks is inherently non competitive at its core. This is why the only solution you are seeking is material rewards to fill the queus with players that frankly dont give a ***.

While competition may be linked to popularity, it does not equal popularity.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2015/08/25/does-competitive-balance-drive-interest-in-sports/#24a35f7d4f25

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1536504216628849

Strategy and moreover competition does not cease to exist with the addition of another opposing team, the only things that change are the number of unknowns and the variance of outcomes. Teams of players that perform well will still rise to the top and win more often than not, however in a 4v4v4 system they will not be able to guarantee a win simply because they are better than either opposing team in a two team 4v4 situation.

SanTii.92

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

When they'll add a ranking sistem, the BG pop will skyrocket

There will never be nor should there be a ranking system for bgs as long a ZOS insists on keeping them casual 3 team mini game nonsense.

People claiming in depth strategy in 3 way bgs .... lol please. Bgs are "fun" enough but anyone that tries to take them seriously should in turn not be taken seriously.

Guessing you get rolled a lot in BGs???

Lol.. come on now.. On the contrary. Did i pinch a nerve? Do you feel insulted? The reality is roughly 90 percent of the players you generally come across are really bad which speaks entirely on bgs as a whole. You see the same small group of solid players with all the cannon fodder filling in the blanks.






Just some recent ones. This is generally how it goes everytime.

My opinion of bgs comes from a place where i really appreciate competetive pvp and acknowledging the inherent sillyness of ESOs bgs, when directly compared to various other mmos that have done it infinitely better.

You should at the very least try to convey a compelling argument isntead of the limp "you must get rolled in bgs thats why you dislike them!"

Bgs are a silly side game for casual past time fun to kill some time and should noy be taken seriously in any capacity.

Completely disagree with you, just because you don't like something doesn't inherently make it stupid and not something to be taken seriously. Ok, so its not your cup of tea, that's fine, but there are plenty of players that really do enjoy it and do take it seriously and do want to see it survive longer than one patch cycle. Anyone that loves this game should want to see a healthy population in all aspects of what its offering.

I didn't start this thread to compare ESO PVP (Cyro or BG) to other MMOs, I was comparing BG's population from a few weeks ago to now and offering a solution to getting more traffic in there. I really don't care how "silly" you think BGs is, your's is just one opinion out of millions, a moo point really. Having more people in there isn't going to be hurting you if you find it so "silly"

Understand my implication is not to see bgs as they are in eso to fail and become dead.. I also never said that you cannot find enjoyment out of them. What i said is that there are far to many people that put too much stock into them as being well structured and competitively balanced pvp experiences.

They are not. If they were, they would be far more popular then they currently are. Reward Incentives are only a key motivator for players that want a measurable return on their time investment. Players that truly just want an avenue to play against other players in a controlled environment to demonstrate their ability vs others were hoping for just that and no amount of ap increase is going to push them into it. The only thing that increased rewards for bgs would do is have more average players filling the queues to farm currency X or Y for whatever reason. Which only serves to further remove conpetetive minded players from bothering with the content.

The reality is they are not very popular any more. The queues on both pc and ps4 have worsened noticably. 4v4v4 with gimicks is inherently non competitive at its core. This is why the only solution you are seeking is material rewards to fill the queus with players that frankly dont give a ***.

While competition may be linked to popularity, it does not equal popularity.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2015/08/25/does-competitive-balance-drive-interest-in-sports/#24a35f7d4f25

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1536504216628849

Strategy and moreover competition does not cease to exist with the addition of another opposing team, the only things that change are the number of unknowns and the variance of outcomes. Teams of players that perform well will still rise to the top and win more often than not, however in a 4v4v4 system they will not be able to guarantee a win simply because they are better than either opposing team in a two team 4v4 situation.

Yes, and I think part of their motivation to make them 4v4v4 was exactly that. Knowing that they wouldn't have a system in place which would attempt to balance groups, best shot was to 4v4v4 where the two losing teams should team up agaisnt the best one.