Make Battlegrounds relevant again.

SirDopey

Since the PVP Event Battleground queue times have been getting worse each day as less people play. This is for primetime Australia on PC/NA, not sure if it's true for other platforms and time zones but I'm sure it will happen soon enough.

To be honest, while the AP is nice the rewards are pretty lackluster which really isn't helping to keep a healthy population of people queuing. So, I'm suggesting ZOS ad the Ordinator motif pages to the potential prize pool for completing battlegrounds or leaderboard rewards. I think this will go a long way to getting the population back up and ending 10 minute queue times

Skander

When they'll add a ranking sistem, the BG pop will skyrocket

LadyNalcarya

They REALLY should do something about matchmaking and leaderboards.
First of all, the common situation when a premade group smashes pugs, is not really fun neither for pugs nor for the premade group (assuming that theyre competitive and want interesting fights).
Secondly, leaderboard score shouldnt be cumulative. It should be the same as the trial leaderboard: one best score rather than all of them combined.

Thogard

What do you mean you like the AP rewards?

The AP rewards are terrible! Most BG players are very skilled - far above the average for cyrodil- and playing in the BGs is a huge hit to AP gain.

SirDopey

Thogard wrote: »

What do you mean you like the AP rewards?

The AP rewards are terrible! Most BG players are very skilled - far above the average for cyrodil- and playing in the BGs is a huge hit to AP gain.

It's not that bad, think I average about 6k AP per round, it's the 10+ minute wait between rounds that's killing it.

SirDopey

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

They REALLY should do something about matchmaking and leaderboards.
First of all, the common situation when a premade group smashes pugs, is not really fun neither for pugs nor for the premade group (assuming that theyre competitive and want interesting fights).
Secondly, leaderboard score shouldnt be cumulative. It should be the same as the trial leaderboard: one best score rather than all of them combined.

I think a leaderboard of that design would be far too easy to manipulate though? Already you can fill all teams of a BG round with mates because the population is so low.

akl77

I like playing bg, but each game is only 10min, it's too short. How about 30min per bg game.
So I rather play in Cyrodiil where I can play for hours.

LadyNalcarya

SirDopey wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

They REALLY should do something about matchmaking and leaderboards.
First of all, the common situation when a premade group smashes pugs, is not really fun neither for pugs nor for the premade group (assuming that theyre competitive and want interesting fights).
Secondly, leaderboard score shouldnt be cumulative. It should be the same as the trial leaderboard: one best score rather than all of them combined.

I think a leaderboard of that design would be far too easy to manipulate though? Already you can fill all teams of a BG round with mates because the population is so low.

But the issues with matchmaking and leaderboards are really off-putting for many people, and its one of the reasons why the population is low.
Yes, leaderboards of any sorts can be manipulated, but I'd prefer them to be skill-based rather than time-based. Also, if premade teams could only fight other premade teams, it would be more fair.
They could also add something more elaborate, like winrate-based system, but I doubt ZOS would care enough...

Tigeracer

akl77 wrote: »

I like playing bg, but each game is only 10min, it's too short. How about 30min per bg game.
So I rather play in Cyrodiil where I can play for hours.

I disagree. The whole reason I play battlegrounds is because I don't have much time to play and can smash out a few games in only a short amount of time.

I think you should play in imperial city. It's kind of like domination, but lasts as long as you want it to.

Thogard

Tigeracer wrote: »

akl77 wrote: »

I like playing bg, but each game is only 10min, it's too short. How about 30min per bg game.
So I rather play in Cyrodiil where I can play for hours.

I disagree. The whole reason I play battlegrounds is because I don't have much time to play and can smash out a few games in only a short amount of time.

I think you should play in imperial city. It's kind of like domination, but lasts as long as you want it to.

Problem with IC is that it's either empty or filled with people running the imperial physique set

ecru

4v4v4 isn't fun. i made a thread about it awhile ago here - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/356813/three-teams-4v4v4-will-almost-never-lead-to-an-enjoyable-gameplay-experience#latest

on top of that i don't think a lot of people appreciate being deprived of their cp. instanced pvp with larger teams and only two teams would have gone over a whole lot better than this 4v4v4 nonsense. no one i know wants to queue even if they have morrowind because getting rear ended by 4 people when you're already fighting 4 people from the other team isn't fun.

Tigeracer

ecru wrote: »

4v4v4 isn't fun. i made a thread about it awhile ago here - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/356813/three-teams-4v4v4-will-almost-never-lead-to-an-enjoyable-gameplay-experience#latest

on top of that i don't think a lot of people appreciate being deprived of their cp. instanced pvp with larger teams and only two teams would have gone over a whole lot better than this 4v4v4 nonsense. no one i know wants to queue even if they have morrowind because getting rear ended by 4 people when you're already fighting 4 people from the other team isn't fun.

That's just your opinion on it, mate. In my opinion, it's the most fun thing in ESO. @Gilliamtherogue also seems to enjoy it, so saying that nobody will enjoy it is not true.

I love that it's absolute chaos sometimes and the game modes are great! It can take a few games to get used to, but once you understand how to play, there is a lot of strategy.

Regarding CP, there are many debates on wether it should be allowed or not. I personally don't care, as I enjoy CP and no CP Cyrodil campaigns (when I have time).

Toc de Malsvi

ecru wrote: »

4v4v4 isn't fun. i made a thread about it awhile ago here - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/356813/three-teams-4v4v4-will-almost-never-lead-to-an-enjoyable-gameplay-experience#latest

on top of that i don't think a lot of people appreciate being deprived of their cp. instanced pvp with larger teams and only two teams would have gone over a whole lot better than this 4v4v4 nonsense. no one i know wants to queue even if they have morrowind because getting rear ended by 4 people when you're already fighting 4 people from the other team isn't fun.

4v4v4 is fun. I love no CP. There is a lot of strategy on when to engage and how and team makeup. BG's are the most fun I've had in PVP in ESO ever.

DerpyShadowz

Took way too long to fix the queue systems for people to care about it now.

Zer0oo

DerpyShadowz wrote: »

Took way too long to fix the queue systems for people to care about it now.

Don't think the queue system is fixed it is just not so many are now queuing.



For reasons why bg are not really that populated anymore:

• no really good rewards or you already have all rewards you wanted(a little ap+mostly useless gear doesn't even cover the costs for potions)
• bad design of some of the modes(promotes to just avoid any pvp, power sigils right at the spawn, almost impossible to stop someone from picking up a relict...) and not a single statement of the devs if they consider to change something and at this point i think they don't even care(they got the money now they can make another reskined mount for 4k crowns)
• no fair teams/match making or even premade vs pug grp (really boring if there is no challenge or if the match is already lost)
• general state of pvp is not too good(at least they changed a lot of proc sets)
• the leader-board is a joke that just reflects how much time you spent in bg and not if you are good
• the grp-tool was unusable for 2 month after release

Olupajmibanan

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

They REALLY should do something about matchmaking and leaderboards.
First of all, the common situation when a premade group smashes pugs, is not really fun neither for pugs nor for the premade group (assuming that theyre competitive and want interesting fights).
Secondly, leaderboard score shouldnt be cumulative. It should be the same as the trial leaderboard: one best score rather than all of them combined.

Exactly this. BG leaderboards now show only time played and not player performance.

You are 1st in the BG leaderboards? GJ, you spent the most time in BGs within a week. Are you skilled? We don't know because BG leaderboards aren't tied to skill in any way.

ecru

Tigeracer wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

4v4v4 isn't fun. i made a thread about it awhile ago here - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/356813/three-teams-4v4v4-will-almost-never-lead-to-an-enjoyable-gameplay-experience#latest

on top of that i don't think a lot of people appreciate being deprived of their cp. instanced pvp with larger teams and only two teams would have gone over a whole lot better than this 4v4v4 nonsense. no one i know wants to queue even if they have morrowind because getting rear ended by 4 people when you're already fighting 4 people from the other team isn't fun.

That's just your opinion on it, mate. In my opinion, it's the most fun thing in ESO. @Gilliamtherogue also seems to enjoy it, so saying that nobody will enjoy it is not true.

I love that it's absolute chaos sometimes and the game modes are great! It can take a few games to get used to, but once you understand how to play, there is a lot of strategy.

Regarding CP, there are many debates on wether it should be allowed or not. I personally don't care, as I enjoy CP and no CP Cyrodil campaigns (when I have time).

It isn't just my opinion, current BG population reflects what I've said. Most people aren't interested. A lot of people bought Morrowind, yet almost no one is queueing. Games that are practically dead or have been practically dead (Rift) have and have had more active instanced pvp.

gepe87

It still populated with meta players? I tried three times and regret it.

exeeter702

Skander wrote: »

When they'll add a ranking sistem, the BG pop will skyrocket

There will never be nor should there be a ranking system for bgs as long a ZOS insists on keeping them casual 3 team mini game nonsense.

People claiming in depth strategy in 3 way bgs .... lol please. Bgs are "fun" enough but anyone that tries to take them seriously should in turn not be taken seriously.

brandonv516

My personal thoughts are that once you queue in for BG you should stay in and keep rotating maps/game modes. If people leave, the match should automatically fill people in.

This eliminates the need to continue queuing and you get a nice steady source of AP.

I hate to reference other games that have nothing to do with ESO but see Gears of War.

Toc de Malsvi

Zer0oo wrote: »

DerpyShadowz wrote: »

Took way too long to fix the queue systems for people to care about it now.

Don't think the queue system is fixed it is just not so many are now queuing.



For reasons why bg are not really that populated anymore:

• no really good rewards or you already have all rewards you wanted(a little ap+mostly useless gear doesn't even cover the costs for potions)
• bad design of some of the modes(promotes to just avoid any pvp, power sigils right at the spawn, almost impossible to stop someone from picking up a relict...) and not a single statement of the devs if they consider to change something and at this point i think they don't even care(they got the money now they can make another reskined mount for 4k crowns)
• no fair teams/match making or even premade vs pug grp (really boring if there is no challenge or if the match is already lost)
• general state of pvp is not too good(at least they changed a lot of proc sets)
• the leader-board is a joke that just reflects how much time you spent in bg and not if you are good
• the grp-tool was unusable for 2 month after release

The rewards are not great true.

Avoiding PVP in any mode is arguably the worst strategy that only works if the teams you are playing are either really bad, or just want to kill each other and could care less about winning. It is not difficult for teams that are losing to a team that is not actively PVPing to camp that teams spawn, or only cap that teams flags. I've seen it done, done it to others, and had it done to my team, it is what good players do when they notice they are losing to the non PVP team. Literally you can have Orange and Purple fight on Green's spawn and kill Green as they run out.

Power Sigils are a virtual non issue if you put any thought into strategy. It is not as if they don't tell you when they are up, if they are up and you can get to them great, if not just sneak for 30 seconds, whoopdy freaking doo. If you are not actively trying to seek them out and or avoid players with them, then you will get wrecked, otherwise you will be fine.

Relic matches promote offensively picking up relics rather than defensively sitting on relics. Some like it some don't, you can leave people to defend and send one guy to try and sneak one out, or you can go as a team. But the best defense to keep someone from scoring is to take their relic.

True enough unfair teams is a large issue that does plague battle grounds. Which is more related to a poor matchmaking system.

The leader boards are not directed at who is best, but who is getting the most points. This allows for bad players to put in a lot of time and get on the leader boards, however it is still many times easier for good players to get on the leader-boards if you actually play for the objectives and not tunnel vision on your K/D ratio.

The group tool was unusable for a period of time, which for team balance is generally preferable as teams that are made up of solo or duo players can avoid four man world beating teams made up of the best in game players.

Toc de Malsvi

Loss in popularity I would attribute to the above highlighted regions, the larger issue being the rewards as this is an MMO and players mostly play to get stuff. Although unfair teams can create toxic playing environments which leads to negative responses from players.

Sylosi

You aren't going to get a healthy population, for numerous reasons:

1 - The design of BG is terrible, 3 teams doesn't make for skilled, balanced and competitive PvP mode, which is why pretty much every game uses 2 teams.

2 - No meaningful matchmaking, seriously I will never play a "competitive" PvP game that has no real matchmaking (some sort of ELO system) it is not enjoyable, and as for putting pre-mades vs pugs, well, why would I take time and effort to queue as pre-made if I am just gonna roll solo players or conversely why would I queue solo to face a team on TS/Discord with an organised comp.

3 - Adding "competitive" PvP to a game that has not had any real competitive PvP in three years is never going to succeed, newsflash - the playerbase of ESO is not competitively minded, even look at the deluded streamers who go on about "skilled PvP" when all they are doing 90% of the time is fighting bads / new players, even these delusional no-marks are not really interested in competitive PvP, they wouldn't have still been plodding away at ESO 3 years in if they were.

Really if they wanted to add smallscale they would have been better off adding 10 v 10, basically something akin to battlegrounds like you had in Rift, etc, which appeals to a wider part of the playerbase (e.g - a lot of players feel too pressured in smaller teams, but are okay with say 10) and would also handle the pre-made thing better where it is easier to stick a 3 or 4 man pre-made on each team and then fill the rest with solo/duo.

But as it is, it is just another MMO PvP mode that makes the same mistakes as many others and is doomed to failure.

SirDopey

exeeter702 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

When they'll add a ranking sistem, the BG pop will skyrocket

There will never be nor should there be a ranking system for bgs as long a ZOS insists on keeping them casual 3 team mini game nonsense.

People claiming in depth strategy in 3 way bgs .... lol please. Bgs are "fun" enough but anyone that tries to take them seriously should in turn not be taken seriously.

Guessing you get rolled a lot in BGs???

SirDopey

ecru wrote: »

4v4v4 isn't fun. i made a thread about it awhile ago here - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/356813/three-teams-4v4v4-will-almost-never-lead-to-an-enjoyable-gameplay-experience#latest

on top of that i don't think a lot of people appreciate being deprived of their cp. instanced pvp with larger teams and only two teams would have gone over a whole lot better than this 4v4v4 nonsense. no one i know wants to queue even if they have morrowind because getting rear ended by 4 people when you're already fighting 4 people from the other team isn't fun.

Well we have nothing in common, I far prefer the non CP environment and BG's is without a doubt the most enjoyable form of PVP for me.

Not everyone has the same taste...

SirDopey

The Rewards system needs major reworking. Couldn't even sell my two legendary Leaderboard rewards for 40k this week =(

Adding the Motif pages will bring people in who want to grind them out, helping support the population, while also giving an income source to the people that just want to BG

Derra

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Secondly, leaderboard score shouldnt be cumulative. It should be the same as the trial leaderboard: one best score rather than all of them combined.

With how scores are calculated this would allow for sooo sooooo so much griefplay to artifically boost scores.

Proper leaderboards require matchmaking.
Score/rank then gets evaluated based on win/loss aswell as opponents ranking/score.

maboleth

I don't know for Na servers, but EU are pretty populated for BG all the time.

Thogard

Unfortunately at this point, permanently separating the premades from the PUGs will cause too long of a delay in the queue.

As it is now, if you play a lot you can tell that the system TRIES to separate the PUGs from the premades. this is most noticeable when 3/4 of your group gets ported into the BG but the fourth was zoning or something and didn't port in. If they then try to join as a solo during prime time, even if you have an open slot on your team, they'll often get put into a PUG BG with no premades.

Also do this: if you get put into a BG during prime time, and you queue up as a solo but end up fighting a premade, try asking your group if they're a premade too. Many times, the answer is yes and you are the "flex" spot stolen from the PUG queue to make the game happen.

I think once the game progresses and certain strategies become more common, as well as the BG group maker actually trying to build fair teams so that each team has healer, DPS, DPS, and tank (who's actually a DPS or off healer) then it'll be more fair.

As is, there are already plenty of players that can get put as the fourth with a three man premade and perform perfectly. And there are some players that are so high-impact that they can carry an otherwise terrible group.. @DubzugPvP @zendran @cardinal05 @trinitops @karlotta @ali_sabre and a few others are all good examples.

exeeter702

SirDopey wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

When they'll add a ranking sistem, the BG pop will skyrocket

There will never be nor should there be a ranking system for bgs as long a ZOS insists on keeping them casual 3 team mini game nonsense.

People claiming in depth strategy in 3 way bgs .... lol please. Bgs are "fun" enough but anyone that tries to take them seriously should in turn not be taken seriously.

Guessing you get rolled a lot in BGs???

Lol.. come on now.. On the contrary. Did i pinch a nerve? Do you feel insulted? The reality is roughly 90 percent of the players you generally come across are really bad which speaks entirely on bgs as a whole. You see the same small group of solid players with all the cannon fodder filling in the blanks.






Just some recent ones. This is generally how it goes everytime.

My opinion of bgs comes from a place where i really appreciate competetive pvp and acknowledging the inherent sillyness of ESOs bgs, when directly compared to various other mmos that have done it infinitely better.

You should at the very least try to convey a compelling argument isntead of the limp "you must get rolled in bgs thats why you dislike them!"

Bgs are a silly side game for casual past time fun to kill some time and should noy be taken seriously in any capacity.

SirDopey

exeeter702 wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

When they'll add a ranking sistem, the BG pop will skyrocket

There will never be nor should there be a ranking system for bgs as long a ZOS insists on keeping them casual 3 team mini game nonsense.

People claiming in depth strategy in 3 way bgs .... lol please. Bgs are "fun" enough but anyone that tries to take them seriously should in turn not be taken seriously.

Guessing you get rolled a lot in BGs???

Lol.. come on now.. On the contrary. Did i pinch a nerve? Do you feel insulted? The reality is roughly 90 percent of the players you generally come across are really bad which speaks entirely on bgs as a whole. You see the same small group of solid players with all the cannon fodder filling in the blanks.






Just some recent ones. This is generally how it goes everytime.

My opinion of bgs comes from a place where i really appreciate competetive pvp and acknowledging the inherent sillyness of ESOs bgs, when directly compared to various other mmos that have done it infinitely better.

You should at the very least try to convey a compelling argument isntead of the limp "you must get rolled in bgs thats why you dislike them!"

Bgs are a silly side game for casual past time fun to kill some time and should noy be taken seriously in any capacity.

Completely disagree with you, just because you don't like something doesn't inherently make it stupid and not something to be taken seriously. Ok, so its not your cup of tea, that's fine, but there are plenty of players that really do enjoy it and do take it seriously and do want to see it survive longer than one patch cycle. Anyone that loves this game should want to see a healthy population in all aspects of what its offering.

I didn't start this thread to compare ESO PVP (Cyro or BG) to other MMOs, I was comparing BG's population from a few weeks ago to now and offering a solution to getting more traffic in there. I really don't care how "silly" you think BGs is, your's is just one opinion out of millions, a moo point really. Having more people in there isn't going to be hurting you if you find it so "silly"