Make Battlegrounds relevant again.

Thogard

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

When they'll add a ranking sistem, the BG pop will skyrocket

There will never be nor should there be a ranking system for bgs as long a ZOS insists on keeping them casual 3 team mini game nonsense.

People claiming in depth strategy in 3 way bgs .... lol please. Bgs are "fun" enough but anyone that tries to take them seriously should in turn not be taken seriously.

Guessing you get rolled a lot in BGs???

Lol.. come on now.. On the contrary. Did i pinch a nerve? Do you feel insulted? The reality is roughly 90 percent of the players you generally come across are really bad which speaks entirely on bgs as a whole. You see the same small group of solid players with all the cannon fodder filling in the blanks.






Just some recent ones. This is generally how it goes everytime.

My opinion of bgs comes from a place where i really appreciate competetive pvp and acknowledging the inherent sillyness of ESOs bgs, when directly compared to various other mmos that have done it infinitely better.

You should at the very least try to convey a compelling argument isntead of the limp "you must get rolled in bgs thats why you dislike them!"

Bgs are a silly side game for casual past time fun to kill some time and should noy be taken seriously in any capacity.

Completely disagree with you, just because you don't like something doesn't inherently make it stupid and not something to be taken seriously. Ok, so its not your cup of tea, that's fine, but there are plenty of players that really do enjoy it and do take it seriously and do want to see it survive longer than one patch cycle. Anyone that loves this game should want to see a healthy population in all aspects of what its offering.

I didn't start this thread to compare ESO PVP (Cyro or BG) to other MMOs, I was comparing BG's population from a few weeks ago to now and offering a solution to getting more traffic in there. I really don't care how "silly" you think BGs is, your's is just one opinion out of millions, a moo point really. Having more people in there isn't going to be hurting you if you find it so "silly"

Understand my implication is not to see bgs as they are in eso to fail and become dead.. I also never said that you cannot find enjoyment out of them. What i said is that there are far to many people that put too much stock into them as being well structured and competitively balanced pvp experiences.

They are not. If they were, they would be far more popular then they currently are. Reward Incentives are only a key motivator for players that want a measurable return on their time investment. Players that truly just want an avenue to play against other players in a controlled environment to demonstrate their ability vs others were hoping for just that and no amount of ap increase is going to push them into it. The only thing that increased rewards for bgs would do is have more average players filling the queues to farm currency X or Y for whatever reason. Which only serves to further remove conpetetive minded players from bothering with the content.

The reality is they are not very popular any more. The queues on both pc and ps4 have worsened noticably. 4v4v4 with gimicks is inherently non competitive at its core. This is why the only solution you are seeking is material rewards to fill the queus with players that frankly dont give a ***.

While competition may be linked to popularity, it does not equal popularity.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2015/08/25/does-competitive-balance-drive-interest-in-sports/#24a35f7d4f25

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1536504216628849

Strategy and moreover competition does not cease to exist with the addition of another opposing team, the only things that change are the number of unknowns and the variance of outcomes. Teams of players that perform well will still rise to the top and win more often than not, however in a 4v4v4 system they will not be able to guarantee a win simply because they are better than either opposing team in a two team 4v4 situation.

But that's not true. There are plenty of strategies you can use to win if you're the strongest 4v4 team. Here are some:

1. CTR: camp the flag/spawn of the second strongest team after sneaking or picking up the relic of the third strongest team. Run relics back at your leisure once your own flag is returned
2. Domination: focus on holding the two flags on either side of the second strongest team's spawn - this will essentially spawn camp them.
3. Chaos Ball: bring the ball to your base. Once you've killed a team, let the ball kill the holder and have another teammate pick it up, resetting the dmg. Rinse and repeat.
4. Deathmatch: if you find yourself sandwiched between two teams, disengage, loop around, and hit the second strongest team so that they are in between you and the third team


It's really not hard stuff. Many of the high end premades do it already.


Edit: I reread your post.. there's no guarantee of a win but these will maximize your chances by forcing teams into either fighting each other or being unable to score. If you could guarantee that all teams acted rationally and in their own best interest, this would work well. But if teams act irrationally, or fail to play the objective, you would have to adapt.

Toc de Malsvi

Thogard wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Based on what are you saying bgs population is low? It doesn't take more than two or three minutes to find a group when i queue, and i play quite some bgs per week, do very well with scores, and still struggle to get into the leaderboards. Game is fine, i would appreciate a leaderboard based on w/l ratio instead of grind, and the queue to consider skill somhow when forming groups, but it's still enjoyable.

I find myself constantly playing games with the same people, but if I take a 5 min break to make more potions and then requeue then I'll probably be with a different group.

I think the belief that not many people play comes from the fact that many times when you immediately requeue, so is everyone else from the game you just finished, and you get placed together again.

But it is pretty dead during the Australian time zone. Not many aussies left playing.

I often play quite late into eastern night and still doesn't take long to find a game when queuing alone. I don't know, but if I were to do something I guess i'd start with trying Cp Bgs and maybe reworking rewards, increase Ap gains, and a sachle similar to what we had on the last event, with chances of gold mats, reagents or even motifs, instead of the weapons.

I'm West coast. It starts to slow down around 1AM pacific (4AM est)

They really need to make kills in BGs count for AP.

Less AP than for kills in Cyrodiil due to not having to travel as far to get kills, but still they should count for AP.

Eyesinthedrk

My problem with BG is the lack of play options. It's always 4x4x4. It's always in an arena style map. And there are only 4 game modes.

i would prefer something more along the lines of call of duty's moddle. How about some maps that are their own instance in over land maps with a limited boundry line? Like say half of wayrest, or Maybe the southwest portion of wrothgar? Could be any section of any map really.

How about 4x4x4, 8x8x8, 10x10, 20x20, and an allxall

Relic hunter as a three way match just sucks. It's either over in 5 minutes or it's a constant stalemate. Make that a two team only game option. Add a king of the kill mode, last man standing mode.

In the current model it took me a week to get the firedrake dye and I was "over it" long before I got it.

Thogard

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Based on what are you saying bgs population is low? It doesn't take more than two or three minutes to find a group when i queue, and i play quite some bgs per week, do very well with scores, and still struggle to get into the leaderboards. Game is fine, i would appreciate a leaderboard based on w/l ratio instead of grind, and the queue to consider skill somhow when forming groups, but it's still enjoyable.

I find myself constantly playing games with the same people, but if I take a 5 min break to make more potions and then requeue then I'll probably be with a different group.

I think the belief that not many people play comes from the fact that many times when you immediately requeue, so is everyone else from the game you just finished, and you get placed together again.

But it is pretty dead during the Australian time zone. Not many aussies left playing.

I often play quite late into eastern night and still doesn't take long to find a game when queuing alone. I don't know, but if I were to do something I guess i'd start with trying Cp Bgs and maybe reworking rewards, increase Ap gains, and a sachle similar to what we had on the last event, with chances of gold mats, reagents or even motifs, instead of the weapons.

I'm West coast. It starts to slow down around 1AM pacific (4AM est)

They really need to make kills in BGs count for AP.

Less AP than for kills in Cyrodiil due to not having to travel as far to get kills, but still they should count for AP.

But that's the whole glorious thing about BGs... being in constant combat. That's its raison d'etre.

There are no keep defense or keep take AP tics. It's definitely not beginner friendly, there's no zerging... it's just constant fighting. It should be the fastest AP gain in the game if you're the best team.

IMO I'd love to see the BGs scare away beginners completely and only attract highly skilled, end game PvPers. I'd love it if BGs became the pinnacle of PvP in ESO.. it's not a fair environment, but it's certainly more fair than cyrodil.

But I doubt that will ever happen. I foresee this game going the same route as DAoC - distinct 12 man groups (or 8 or 4 but probably 12) meeting up at a predetermined location in cyrodil to fight to see who wins. If a Zerg hits, the 12 man team in the same alliance as the Zerg would pull off to allow the other 12 man to farm the Zerg.

That's how DAoC evolved, and given that this AvA system is a direct and intentional copy of DAoC's RvR system, if be surprised if this game didn't go in that direction eventually... especially as the population starts to dwindle and you see the same faces in PvP over and over again.

SanTii.92

Thogard wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Based on what are you saying bgs population is low? It doesn't take more than two or three minutes to find a group when i queue, and i play quite some bgs per week, do very well with scores, and still struggle to get into the leaderboards. Game is fine, i would appreciate a leaderboard based on w/l ratio instead of grind, and the queue to consider skill somhow when forming groups, but it's still enjoyable.

I find myself constantly playing games with the same people, but if I take a 5 min break to make more potions and then requeue then I'll probably be with a different group.

I think the belief that not many people play comes from the fact that many times when you immediately requeue, so is everyone else from the game you just finished, and you get placed together again.

But it is pretty dead during the Australian time zone. Not many aussies left playing.

I often play quite late into eastern night and still doesn't take long to find a game when queuing alone. I don't know, but if I were to do something I guess i'd start with trying Cp Bgs and maybe reworking rewards, increase Ap gains, and a sachle similar to what we had on the last event, with chances of gold mats, reagents or even motifs, instead of the weapons.

I'm West coast. It starts to slow down around 1AM pacific (4AM est)

They really need to make kills in BGs count for AP.

Less AP than for kills in Cyrodiil due to not having to travel as far to get kills, but still they should count for AP.

But that's the whole glorious thing about BGs... being in constant combat. That's its raison d'etre.

There are no keep defense or keep take AP tics. It's definitely not beginner friendly, there's no zerging... it's just constant fighting. It should be the fastest AP gain in the game if you're the best team.

IMO I'd love to see the BGs scare away beginners completely and only attract highly skilled, end game PvPers. I'd love it if BGs became the pinnacle of PvP in ESO.. it's not a fair environment, but it's certainly more fair than cyrodil.

I think zos at some point might want to develop a fully fleshed arena system with ratings and ladders. But will be apart from bgs.

Strict competitive environments is what attracts twitch viewers the most, and it's probably the only way to satisfy hardcore pvpers. I'd love that, but there is a long way till that.

ecru

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

When they'll add a ranking sistem, the BG pop will skyrocket

There will never be nor should there be a ranking system for bgs as long a ZOS insists on keeping them casual 3 team mini game nonsense.

People claiming in depth strategy in 3 way bgs .... lol please. Bgs are "fun" enough but anyone that tries to take them seriously should in turn not be taken seriously.

Guessing you get rolled a lot in BGs???

Lol.. come on now.. On the contrary. Did i pinch a nerve? Do you feel insulted? The reality is roughly 90 percent of the players you generally come across are really bad which speaks entirely on bgs as a whole. You see the same small group of solid players with all the cannon fodder filling in the blanks.






Just some recent ones. This is generally how it goes everytime.

My opinion of bgs comes from a place where i really appreciate competetive pvp and acknowledging the inherent sillyness of ESOs bgs, when directly compared to various other mmos that have done it infinitely better.

You should at the very least try to convey a compelling argument isntead of the limp "you must get rolled in bgs thats why you dislike them!"

Bgs are a silly side game for casual past time fun to kill some time and should noy be taken seriously in any capacity.

Completely disagree with you, just because you don't like something doesn't inherently make it stupid and not something to be taken seriously. Ok, so its not your cup of tea, that's fine, but there are plenty of players that really do enjoy it and do take it seriously and do want to see it survive longer than one patch cycle. Anyone that loves this game should want to see a healthy population in all aspects of what its offering.

I didn't start this thread to compare ESO PVP (Cyro or BG) to other MMOs, I was comparing BG's population from a few weeks ago to now and offering a solution to getting more traffic in there. I really don't care how "silly" you think BGs is, your's is just one opinion out of millions, a moo point really. Having more people in there isn't going to be hurting you if you find it so "silly"

Understand my implication is not to see bgs as they are in eso to fail and become dead.. I also never said that you cannot find enjoyment out of them. What i said is that there are far to many people that put too much stock into them as being well structured and competitively balanced pvp experiences.

They are not. If they were, they would be far more popular then they currently are. Reward Incentives are only a key motivator for players that want a measurable return on their time investment. Players that truly just want an avenue to play against other players in a controlled environment to demonstrate their ability vs others were hoping for just that and no amount of ap increase is going to push them into it. The only thing that increased rewards for bgs would do is have more average players filling the queues to farm currency X or Y for whatever reason. Which only serves to further remove conpetetive minded players from bothering with the content.

The reality is they are not very popular any more. The queues on both pc and ps4 have worsened noticably. 4v4v4 with gimicks is inherently non competitive at its core. This is why the only solution you are seeking is material rewards to fill the queus with players that frankly dont give a ***.

While competition may be linked to popularity, it does not equal popularity.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2015/08/25/does-competitive-balance-drive-interest-in-sports/#24a35f7d4f25

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1536504216628849

Strategy and moreover competition does not cease to exist with the addition of another opposing team, the only things that change are the number of unknowns and the variance of outcomes. Teams of players that perform well will still rise to the top and win more often than not, however in a 4v4v4 system they will not be able to guarantee a win simply because they are better than either opposing team in a two team 4v4 situation.

Yes, and I think part of their motivation to make them 4v4v4 was exactly that. Knowing that they wouldn't have a system in place which would attempt to balance groups, best shot was to 4v4v4 where the two losing teams should team up agaisnt the best one.

It should be trivial to add some kind of ELO matchmaking system based on win/loss. You win, you gain ELO, you lose, you lose ELO. ELO on either team (assuming two teams) is balanced out as good as possible for matchmaking, and you end up with mostly balanced matches. Not hard to implement at all.

SirDopey

Tandor wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

Since the PVP Event Battleground queue times have been getting worse each day as less people play. This is for primetime Australia on PC/NA, not sure if it's true for other platforms and time zones but I'm sure it will happen soon enough.

I imagine one of the reasons it's been quiet for primetime Australia recently is that few Australians have been able to play due to the various technical issues such as the broken undersea cable.

First of I've heard of this being an issue, non of the members in either of my Aussie guilds are complaining about said problem.