Look, zos, just remove CPs from PvP

Mihael

BohnT wrote: »

Non cp is one of the most boring things in this game.
Everyone is scared as they can't sustain longer than 20 seconds on their own. When 2ppl with poison hit you you are totally dammed unless you are a templar. Gankers are everywhere and are much more powerful than in the cp campaigns. Most ppl can't take a resource on their own so there is no incentive to play solo or in a small group.
Azura is the biggest zerg fest on pc EU and it was even worse during 2x ap week as we had like 3 giant blobs walking through cyrodiil and the one with more destro ultis/ poisons won the fight.
Also there were those cancer builds stam sorc is op af in non cp, gap closer- destro spam is something you can fight against in cp but without you are dead in no time.

On non cp there are surely zergs aswell but there are also some solo players and some small scalers which do extremely well like kite squad. They can do this because their individual skill is secured with resources in no cp you run out of resources very fast so you rely on heavy attacks and every other player can simply cc you and kill you no matter how good you are. I had a stam build with 5k stam regen on non cp and still I run out very often no matter how bad the players are which encounter me after the first 4 or 5 they have a huge advantage as my resources are at 0.
No resource tactics take skill away from the game not to it.
Of course cancer builds suck but they are op mainly because of the sets they use and not just the cp otherwise every setup would be op cp balances this as everyone has the same tools

I really don't mean to sound insulting. But if you ran out of resources with 5k recovery I honestly don't know what you are doing. I run 2k and rarely run out. You might want to fix your build or play style

Enslaved

LegacyDM wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Iyas wrote: »

Why are most ppl ok with fewer options? I dont get it.

You have the option to play nocp on azura. So go there but let the ppl stay on TF who enjoy CPs

And give the ppl the option to Queue for CP and/or no cp Bgs. Why do you want to force the CP players to do something they dont like.

Jeez its like the hardcore vegans who want to force their way on everyone

Rudyard wrote: »

Why do you want to take away player choice? The current system has both options; why reduce that?

Simple. They can't balance cp campaign. They never will. It's always going to be a contradiction. You can't raise both cps while simultaneously buffing and nerfing at the same time. Example, 3 updates of resource nerfs just to admit defeat and scrap a cp to something else. Which is what they are proposing in mortowind. Are they going to do that for other cp categories that will lead to opness? What are they going to do with defense cps? How about healing cps? scope creep is becoming a balancing nightmare. Look, I'm not saying get rid of cp altogether, use it in pve for maelstrom or trials.

They are already not endorsing cp with battle ground. Normally I would agree with you guys but I think cutting cps in pvp would be healthy for the game in the long run. Wrobel could focus his resources around balancing 1 game type. Wheeler could focus his efforts on fixing performance issues around 1 game type. Lambert could develop armor types around 1 type. Short answer it makes it easier for the devs to design and balance translating into less problems. The devs would then be free to focus on other areas of the game like spellcasting and new classes. I think the devs time is eaten up by self inflicted over ambitions.

The writing is on the wall folks. You think that 1 week no cp test was to test performance? Maybe it was but I would also submit to you it was to test the players reactions, evaluate community feedback, and look at technical data. Zos is distancing themselves from cps as evident in bg.

And some people prefer the CP imbalance over the nonCP imbalance - which both have issues just different ones. NonCP favors numbers even more than CP does - because by now the game has been adjusted and balanced entirely around CP. Skillcost has been increase two times by now after CP introduction and is way beyond anything we had prior to CP (just as an example - my CS used to cost me 135 magica which would be equivalent to 1350 today but due to adjustments made to skillcosts it costs 1675 in a comparable setup while having CP costreduction - skillcost in relation to regen is nowadays higher than it was in 1.5) . Resourcepools have been reduced when CP got introduced. Costreduction has seen a passive nerf when CP got introduced.

Also going for two different gamemodes with having to balance skills and mechanics around nonCP pvp and CPenables PVE will create way more backlash than simply putting effort into fixing the CP system itself. IMHO.

You serious? Have you played non cp? Cp is rediculously imbalanced compared to non cp. cp is broke. It's at the point where Zos is entertaining the idea of completely changing magician and warlord. That's a small piece of the problem. What happens when cp scope creep makes quick recovery, bastion, blessed, hardy, resistant, elemental defender, and all the dps skills op? Does Zos just throw their hands inthe air and keep nerfing every update and change cp categories on the fly?

Sorry man somethings gonna have to give eventually. Cps can't go up for ever. In the meantime wrobel and wheeler are wasting resources they could be using on balancing around 2 game types. No cp pvp and cp pve. That's better than 3.

Why not remove no cp pvp? They could also focus on 2 game types with this

They could but it doesn't solve their balance issue and they still have a major problem with scope creep which they can't seem to balance. Their solution is keep nerfing which equates to a 0 sum game. It's the illusion of vertical progression. Also it's not friendly to new players or non maxed cp players.

Should we all run naked to make it easier targets for new/non max cp players? What is next, ban of Maelstorm/Master weapons in PvP? Removal of monster sets? Only blue gear? You can't be serious with this comment. This is not a SJW convention but an MMORPG, if someone worked hard and long to get nice stuff it simply should not be equal with someone who just started the game.

Nope not saying that. But you shouldn't need to rely on a cp crutch to kill your opponent. You think it's fair to trounce your opponent because you have 700 cps and they have 100? Where is the skill in that? You have other ways to work hard. Gold out that gear, grind the set you need to theory craft a build better that your opponent, play better. Pvp should be about skill and build designs not how many cps you have. Cps are currently broke. But I guess ifs it's broke for everyone it makes it fair right?

Again with the same stuff. People who enjoy non CP should not force it on others. Feel free to question my skill, I don't mind that. But you should know the difference between, idk, Call of Duty and MMORPG PvP.

technohic

SnubbS wrote: »

Try this—don't allow Heavy Armor to be equipped in PVP for a week. Let's see how many cancerbuilds, and "Infinite sustain" builds we have then.

Then you'll just have insta kills. My NB will love it though

Buffler

CP and non CP campaigns are exactly the same anyway.

Get a group. wait until destro ult is ready. run in whilst your healers pop remembrance.

griffkhalifa

Drdeath20 wrote: »

It wont make a difference.

Pvp will be always be a mess as long as people can freely jump from alliance to allaince on alts.

How is that a main issue?

Jimbullbee85

Couldn't they power up the servers? Use the money theyre making from us to improve the system rather than take away a big chunk of everything we've been working towards?

FloppyTouch

technohic wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

Try this—don't allow Heavy Armor to be equipped in PVP for a week. Let's see how many cancerbuilds, and "Infinite sustain" builds we have then.

Then you'll just have insta kills. My NB will love it though

This is exactly what every one that says remove or nerf heavy armor wants fast easy kills like any FPS.

technohic

FloppyTouch wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

SnubbS wrote: »

Try this—don't allow Heavy Armor to be equipped in PVP for a week. Let's see how many cancerbuilds, and "Infinite sustain" builds we have then.

Then you'll just have insta kills. My NB will love it though

This is exactly what every one that says remove or nerf heavy armor wants fast easy kills like any FPS.

Yeah; I actually don't see the issue with heavy. If it were OP, it would be used in trials as well and that certainly is not the case. It has a role in tanking there and in PvP where you need more survivability since a tank cannot just grab all your agro. I really see no problems with gear having roles for the venue. For my stamblade I still prefer medium armor myself; and that has to do with I do not intend to face tank anything and I love roll dodging and LOSing, but if they keep introducing undodgeable skills just in order to have cool animations; thats going to really *** in my Cheerios.

Actually; if I am ganking, I am not worried if you have heavy armor because just slapping some on is not going to make you a sudden tank. I look more at their health pool. If they are near 27k-30k or higher, then I am going to think they have something invested in defense or at least they can make me take longer than I want.

Also; people keep saying that proc sets are a huge issue in non CP and I disagree. I do not see them very often because the stats they give make it hard for you to also get decent raw damage and sustain you need without CP. The only times I seem to see them is in zergs, which they honestly don't matter as you are getting hit by so much anyway by the time those are hitting you; or gankers which again it doesn't really matter because if they are going to kill you, they could do the same just out of stealth. Poisons and siege are a *** though.

WhoThenNow7

I'm max CP and I do not like it. It just seems like pointless advantages in my opinion.. but that's because I like things being a bit more simpler. Black water blade has always been the funnest campaign for me, always populated, no CP crap, and it just feels fun. The only reason I don't go to azuras is because there's never anyone there (Xbox).

BohnT

Mihael wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Non cp is one of the most boring things in this game.
Everyone is scared as they can't sustain longer than 20 seconds on their own. When 2ppl with poison hit you you are totally dammed unless you are a templar. Gankers are everywhere and are much more powerful than in the cp campaigns. Most ppl can't take a resource on their own so there is no incentive to play solo or in a small group.
Azura is the biggest zerg fest on pc EU and it was even worse during 2x ap week as we had like 3 giant blobs walking through cyrodiil and the one with more destro ultis/ poisons won the fight.
Also there were those cancer builds stam sorc is op af in non cp, gap closer- destro spam is something you can fight against in cp but without you are dead in no time.

On non cp there are surely zergs aswell but there are also some solo players and some small scalers which do extremely well like kite squad. They can do this because their individual skill is secured with resources in no cp you run out of resources very fast so you rely on heavy attacks and every other player can simply cc you and kill you no matter how good you are. I had a stam build with 5k stam regen on non cp and still I run out very often no matter how bad the players are which encounter me after the first 4 or 5 they have a huge advantage as my resources are at 0.
No resource tactics take skill away from the game not to it.
Of course cancer builds suck but they are op mainly because of the sets they use and not just the cp otherwise every setup would be op cp balances this as everyone has the same tools

I really don't mean to sound insulting. But if you ran out of resources with 5k recovery I honestly don't know what you are doing. I run 2k and rarely run out. You might want to fix your build or play style

Mihael wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Non cp is one of the most boring things in this game.
Everyone is scared as they can't sustain longer than 20 seconds on their own. When 2ppl with poison hit you you are totally dammed unless you are a templar. Gankers are everywhere and are much more powerful than in the cp campaigns. Most ppl can't take a resource on their own so there is no incentive to play solo or in a small group.
Azura is the biggest zerg fest on pc EU and it was even worse during 2x ap week as we had like 3 giant blobs walking through cyrodiil and the one with more destro ultis/ poisons won the fight.
Also there were those cancer builds stam sorc is op af in non cp, gap closer- destro spam is something you can fight against in cp but without you are dead in no time.

On non cp there are surely zergs aswell but there are also some solo players and some small scalers which do extremely well like kite squad. They can do this because their individual skill is secured with resources in no cp you run out of resources very fast so you rely on heavy attacks and every other player can simply cc you and kill you no matter how good you are. I had a stam build with 5k stam regen on non cp and still I run out very often no matter how bad the players are which encounter me after the first 4 or 5 they have a huge advantage as my resources are at 0.
No resource tactics take skill away from the game not to it.
Of course cancer builds suck but they are op mainly because of the sets they use and not just the cp otherwise every setup would be op cp balances this as everyone has the same tools

I really don't mean to sound insulting. But if you ran out of resources with 5k recovery I honestly don't know what you are doing. I run 2k and rarely run out. You might want to fix your build or play style

It was a 1vX Build so I needed to use lots of resources against 3+ with poisons 5 k still won't do the job for longer than 50 seconds. Sure after 6 seconds I could start the fight again but in medium armor you don't have 6 seconds do recover unless cloak is functioning the right way.
It was a bit exaggerated but I do had more sustain issue with that on no cp where I can easily sustain with 2,5k on cp for more than 2 min

Ragnaroek93

No CP is in favour of ganking and 1vX is even harder there. Also gear and poisons do matter even more on no CP than on the CP campaign, I don't know anyone who plays solo and actually prefers the no CP campaign (probably a hype on NA server which I can't understand at all because it's definitely not better balanced, just look at stuff like Troll King or poisons on Azuras and tell me that this is balanced lmao. CP actually enable more build diversity, that's a fact). Please, just dream on and play in your perfectly balanced and skillfull PvP world (Azuras) and let people who actually like their CPs play with them on other campaigns.

I'm pretty sure that the majority (at least on EU) would prefer CP PvP over no CP PvP.

Duiwel

Get rid of Azura star ( see what I did there OP ) ?

Brantleyx

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

Or just apply Battle Spirit to CPs for a week and see how that plays (half values on everything).

Thats actually.. not a bad idea. I never thought about that. They should really look into this.

wazzz56

The only reason why I do not stay in Azura's on Ps4 NA is the lack of population....I enjoy the fights in there, loved no cp week ...I get that people have an attachment to their beloved cp, but in truth, the positives of playing without it far out weigh the negatives imo.....It forces a player to be more aware of their resources, rather than having sustain to the point where you can spam away without any fear of stam or mag zeroing out...It is interesting to see those who'c cp was a crutch to them versus those whose cp was just a supplement......

Vercingetorix

*Look, OP, just switch to Azura's Star.

wazzz56

Buffler wrote: »

CP and non CP campaigns are exactly the same anyway.

Get a group. wait until destro ult is ready. run in whilst your healers pop remembrance.

lol...I just bol my group through destro ults.....they really are not that bad

Durham

LegacyDM wrote: »

Zos, it was a noble effort. But just rip the bandaid off and remove cps from pvp. It's clear you can't balance around cps. I give you a bronze medal for effort though... this continuous resource management nerf every major update is getting rediculous. Looks as if in morrowind you will nerf again.

I just switched over to azura and the experience was amazing. No lag, no invincible heavy armor dps dishing healbots. I actually think it's fairly balanced. Now I understand why some of the top players like fengrush and Krotha switched over.

It's clear you cant balance cps. Every time you raise cp caps it reinforces cancer builds. Today it will be resources so you nerf resources. What happens when you nerf resource management to hell and you continue raising caps? Then blessed and quick recovery will become op and so forth. Then you will have to address those. It's an unwinnable battle. If your already entertaining the changing of cps or not allowing cps in battlegrounds than what is the point? It's also clear you have no confidence in your abilities to balance cps if you are just removing them from battlegrounds or changing cp categories.

Just scrap it and leave it intact for pve where no one has any complaints or issues. It will make life easier for you to balance around without cps.

Sorry folks but cp campaigns are trash. Once you go no cp and design a build that works there is no reason to go back. It's just a better experience, trust me.

More people pvp with CP then without... stop pushing this on the rest of us.. you have a server enjoy it... Even after the event more people chose CP...

Jimbullbee85

So isn't the real reason for the lag due to the server not being able to cope with the current population in the CP campaigns? Getting rid of CP isn't going to make players leave Scourge and move into Azuras is it? If the CP campaigns are the most populated then, generally, players want to keep CP right? Maybe we should be telling ZOS to strengthen the servers so that those who want to play with CP can stay in CP campaigns instead of letting them persuade us that removing CP is the only way to improve the lag. It isn't. It's the cheapest.

Jimbullbee85

If all these CP moaners moved to Azuras Star then the lag in CP campaigns will improve. Problem solved.

Durham

Vanthras79 wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Zos, it was a noble effort. But just rip the bandaid off and remove cps from pvp. It's clear you can't balance around cps. I give you a bronze medal for effort though... this continuous resource management nerf every major update is getting rediculous. Looks as if in morrowind you will nerf again.

I just switched over to azura and the experience was amazing. No lag, no invincible heavy armor dps dishing healbots. I actually think it's fairly balanced. Now I understand why some of the top players like fengrush and Krotha switched over.

It's clear you cant balance cps. Every time you raise cp caps it reinforces cancer builds. Today it will be resources so you nerf resources. What happens when you nerf resource management to hell and you continue raising caps? Then blessed and quick recovery will become op and so forth. Then you will have to address those. It's an unwinnable battle. If your already entertaining the changing of cps or not allowing cps in battlegrounds than what is the point? It's also clear you have no confidence in your abilities to balance cps if you are just removing them from battlegrounds or changing cp categories.

Just scrap it and leave it intact for pve where no one has any complaints or issues. It will make life easier for you to balance around without cps.

Sorry folks but cp campaigns are trash. Once you go no cp and design a build that works there is no reason to go back. It's just a better experience, trust me.

I second this!

Why you have server ? Why make everyone else? I like CP honestly... I play on the non CP also so I understand ... why is there this intent to push a minority view on the majority

tplink3r1

Go to the no CP campaign, problem solved.

magictucktuck

disintegr8 wrote: »

If there are so many people who want PVP without CP, why have the non CP campaigns always been empty?

As long as ZOS keep both CP and non CP campaigns running, everyone has a choice - just leave everyone else to do what they want and move on.

You're right No CP is empty on console, but I want to play on no CP and actually have some skill involved but i don't because i want to actually fight people. That doesn't mean I don't want no CP I just don't want to PvDoor.

edit: i have around 790 CP and im not complaining about not using them lol, they were a byproduct of playing the game and id rather have a competitive environment. (I stole that line from someone else on this thread)

ZOS_JohanaB

We've moved this thread to PvP Combat & Skills

Durham

magictucktuck wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

If there are so many people who want PVP without CP, why have the non CP campaigns always been empty?

As long as ZOS keep both CP and non CP campaigns running, everyone has a choice - just leave everyone else to do what they want and move on.

You're right No CP is empty on console, but I want to play on no CP and actually have some skill involved but i don't because i want to actually fight people. That doesn't mean I don't want no CP I just don't want to PvDoor.

LOL there is skill involved in CP btw ...
Also there is a reason that less people play Non CP its not as popular... PC non CP has a healthy pop but still nothing like Trueflame.. Had has only been good during prime time ... Non CP on PC has better pop then HAD ...
I would suggest come to the darkside... PC gaming rules...

Anti_Virus

Oh and Zos lets Delete Resource poisons while your at it, ok?

Anti_Virus

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Ultimately - ZOS pointed out that nonCP is a focus on BGs. If my arguments on forum and on stream dont sway you, that should send you a clear message that CP has dramatically impacted PVP in a negative way. Im happy the devs finally got on board and realized this. But thats the benefit of having experienced end game PVPers demonstrate for them how broken the game is with ever-increasing CP.

If you enjoy the CP only gameplay, go for it. If you think its more skilled - its not. It gives you a huge cushion to create high survival in builds and ignore the weaknesses they would otherwise have naturally. Even better is group play - bad decisions will get you punished. You dont get a higher allowance of get out of jail cards like you do on CP. To each their own - PC NA Azura campaign has been increasinly populated, and thats a good thing. Pop is fine, its locked a lot of nights when I go in. If other platforms avoid it - meh. Ive watched some console streamers in Cyro. They fight a high volume of targets that arent even max CP. Thats a huge favor - so please spare 'the skill' comments.

The lord has spoken!

idk

@LegacyDM

There are non-cp campaigns for you to enter. Zos already gave you what your requesting without Taking it away from everyone else.

Best of both I worlds. Problems solved. Gold star for Zos.

Waffennacht

So the next time someone posts, "seeing as the majority of the player base prefers No-CP" or "Seeing as No CP week was such a huge success..." I expect everyone of you to post how full of BS that is!

idk

Waffennacht wrote: »

So the next time someone posts, "seeing as the majority of the player base prefers No-CP" or "Seeing as No CP week was such a huge success..." I expect everyone of you to post how full of BS that is!

Anytime someone says a majority of players want the same change for want they're full of it.

Panda_iMunch

To be fair, the cp system was doomed from the start. Anyone who has played any game knows that scaling up stats indefinitely dose nothing other than introduce a grind, make enemies one shots for you and them, or make the game stupidly easy.

Guess that's what happens when your try to band wagon off of Skyrim's skill system, you are reminded of how not to do RPGs.