Look, zos, just remove CPs from PvP

zyk

No CP week on TF was awesome. PVP was fun for me in a way it hasn't been for over a year.

SanderBuraas

To remove champion points from PvP is the best decision Zenimax has yet to make.

Ch4mpTW

I agree OP. You have my vote. After eons of not wasting time in PvP, I gave a shot today. My experience? Absolutely horrible. Made a thread about it too, in typical me fashion. Screw PvP, until ZOS starts fixing it and actively monitoring balance involving it.

Smmokkee

makeumrage wrote: »

If you remove CP go ahead and delete cyrodill for console. Azuras never even gets one bar here. Noone wants that beginners no skill crud.

I lol'd.. opposed to what we have now?

You guys seem to forget how many good pvpers have left over the years because of how ridiculous eso pvp has become.

I don't know what it is with the Xbox community but I just generally hate it. It's hard to describe but, they're super closed minded and excessively use words like cancer to describe the game but, when it comes time to make a change that would be good for pvp they all cry about losing there super uber champ points.

I hope they don't make a cp version of battlegrounds. I really do, leave the one's that are so attached to their champion points that if they didn't have them they would quit to the laggy, zerg filled, troll builded out Cyrodiil. That would be the greatest prank in gaming of all.

Iyas

Why are most ppl ok with fewer options? I dont get it.

You have the option to play nocp on azura. So go there but let the ppl stay on TF who enjoy CPs

And give the ppl the option to Queue for CP and/or no cp Bgs. Why do you want to force the CP players to do something they dont like.

Jeez its like the hardcore vegans who want to force their way on everyone

IronCrystal

Iyas wrote: »

Why are most ppl ok with fewer options? I dont get it.

You have the option to play nocp on azura. So go there but let the ppl stay on TF who enjoy CPs

And give the ppl the option to Queue for CP and/or no cp Bgs. Why do you want to force the CP players to do something they dont like.

Jeez its like the hardcore vegans who want to force their way on everyone

From what I can tell, most don't want to play on Azura's because there aren't many people playing on Azura so there isn't nearly as much action.

If there really were a lot of people who don't like CP, then Azura's wouldn't be so empty.

br0steen

Most of the people who don't want no cp PvP to be a thing are the ones who had a hard time not farming but actually fighting during no CP week. All of a sudden people weren't as good as they thought they were at that point.

makeumrage wrote: »

If you remove CP go ahead and delete cyrodill for console. Azuras never even gets one bar here. Noone wants that beginners no skill crud.

Makes me wonder though... why do people try and farm emp on other servers like thornblade or skull when they could just go to no CP with their bros and get it easily? Unless.... could it be that most players are waaaayyy worse without their CP????

I think there just needs to be at least one 7 day no CP campaign. Just a thought though.

Rudyard

Why do you want to take away player choice? The current system has both options; why reduce that?

Smmokkee

IronCrystal wrote: »

Iyas wrote: »

Why are most ppl ok with fewer options? I dont get it.

You have the option to play nocp on azura. So go there but let the ppl stay on TF who enjoy CPs

And give the ppl the option to Queue for CP and/or no cp Bgs. Why do you want to force the CP players to do something they dont like.

Jeez its like the hardcore vegans who want to force their way on everyone

From what I can tell, most don't want to play on Azura's because there aren't many people playing on Azura so there isn't nearly as much action.

If there really were a lot of people who don't like CP, then Azura's wouldn't be so empty.

People just enjoy their ridiculously overpowered builds over balance.(not saying no cp is completely balanced but much more so then cp) That's not something that should be left as is just because people enjoy those types of builds and when leaderboards come in those types of builds would end up dominating the leaderboards except now with the reward attached you'll see more and more people build like this further ruining diversity and good gameplay.

Katahdin

I enjoyed the no CP week and I also enjoy playing in a CP campaign.

I would also like to know why people that want no CP insist on taking the choice away from those that want to play a CP campaign? That is a very selfish point of view. Is it because the no CP campaign is still not busy enough for you?

If so then too bad.
There is a choice for both now and people want to have that choice.

If you like no CP, play on the no CP campaign and those that want a CP campaign play what they like.
Stop trying to force your opinion on everyone else.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

I agree that CP in its current form is bad for PvP but that is only part of the problem.

I hope that people realize that it's not just CP, that lead to the unbalancing of PvP, its all the other decisions that occurred in concert with CP. Let me explain.

This is what ELSE happened when CP was implemented.

• About 4K from EACH of your resource pools (4k of your Stamina/magicka/Health) were stolen from everyone's character and locked behind the champion system for us to grind back up. That is why you feel like your stats are garbage in Azuras, A true NO-CP camaign should restore those resources via battle spirit as we had those before CP was implemented. I think this would win a few people over to Azuras and ease the transition from a CP campaign to a non-CP
• Soft-caps were removed and this is the REAL reason abilities started to hit super hard, sorcerer shields got ridiculous and people started healing to full in one cast. Soft-Caps used to kick in at the equivalent of 25k Stam/magicka, there were no sorcs running around with 50k magicka and they didn't need to. Shields were fine back with softcaps.
• Because of the huge imbalance that occurred due to removal of softcaps, Battle spirit was modified to nerf Damage/Heals/Shields by 50%. This destroyed build diversity since unique and fun sets (like whitestrakes) didn't scale on resources so just blanket nerfing all damage/heals/shields ruined a lot of fun builds and made them not viable.
• CP and Softcap removal also destroyed hybrid builds because you needed to stack all your attributes into one stat to do decent damage and overcome the battle spirit nerf.

So saying that ZOS should remove CP in PvP is an incomplete solution. We also need to address all the other things that happened after CP. Here is a good way to start AFTER Removing CP (or extremely limiting it)

• Give everyone 4k extra stamina and magicka via battle spirit. (to make up for what was stolen in 1.6)
• Use battle spirit to cap the effect that resources (magicka/stamina/health) have on heals/shields/damage at 25k for mag/stam and 35k for health. Adjust as necessary. You can still run around with 50k magicka if you want but you won't get god tier shields from it anymore as resource stacking will not effect your damage/heals/shields past the capped values.
• With attributes back in line, the 50% nerf on shields/heals/damage can be removed. So many sets that have never been used are now useful again and build diversity can flourish. Hybrid builds will also be effective and can use sets like Draugr and Necropotence to build up duel resource pools.

Put these changes on a new campaign and I bet you people will flock to it. The real secret is capping the effects of attributes (but not capping the attributes themselves) this give all the positive effects of softcaps, and help reduce ridiculous damage/shields/heals but still letting people have build diversity. Essentially smarter softcaps.

BRogueNZ

LegacyDM wrote: »

makeumrage wrote: »

If you remove CP go ahead and delete cyrodill for console. Azuras never even gets one bar here. Noone wants that beginners no skill crud.

Get rid of cps and all the players will be forced to play azuras? You will see console or not the balance is better. At least on pc all the skilled players are migrating over to no cps. Hence that's why I cited fengrush and Krotha.

well...hmm.. newer players on Azura's, fresh out of Compton er i mean BWB, probably nowhere near as geared as those two so while I agree to an extent they are good players lets not assume its that's why they are there. they both stream it's important they rek the masses for their fan bois

makeumrage

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

makeumrage wrote: »

If you remove CP go ahead and delete cyrodill for console. Azuras never even gets one bar here. Noone wants that beginners no skill crud.

Many would argue that it actually takes more skill to compete without CP. They would be correct. Dont get me wrong, Azuras does currently attract less skilled players, but if they actually removed CP from every campaign, skill would play a much bigger factor in PVP.

I dont see it at all. Thats why the players who could never get a single kill by themselves usually loved no cp week. It was the only time they could kill people. I see it as to whole different worlds. I dont see either harder then the other what do ever.

andreasranasen

Or simply stay in that ghost campaign called Azura Star?

Waffennacht

What are you people talking about? Xbox NA non CP is empty All The Time and is Always Red.

I spent Hours in different days at different times, Most Boring Experience Ever.

Where all these people?

Prob PC, but on Xbox no one is in non CP while CP always has action

SanTii.92

Look, there is this place called azura's Star..

And for pve, just embrace the new challenge.

technohic

I do find it funny the no CP campaigns are not more popular. I mean; there is constant complaints of endless sustain, tank and super DPS all in one build. That's not happening I'm non CP. It has to be a matter of some people wanting their CP yet not wanting to accept other people have better built out their CP.

xeNNNNN

Heruthema wrote: »

NO every server has a non CP campaign. Use that one if you want but do not force everyone to play your way.

As much as I agree with the OP I however agree with you more.

CP might be painful in some areas but ive been pvping a lot over the last two campaigns on trueflame and honestly, despite the stupid farming groups and the certain players who can some how summon all of their faction at 8 am to take keeps and get emp, im actually rather enjoying it.

I tried playing without it during no cp week and it was honestly boring and annoying.

MagDKs were absolutely disgustingly powerful as there was barely any resistance against the bs they can unleash with powerlash.

Sorcs hitting way harder than normal

Then the templars were even worse.

Remove CP from PvP completely and you gut whatever semblance of fun is left. Sorry, I wont follow the bandwagon. "cool kids are doing it therefore i must too!"

If my own progression cannot be factored in to how I play then what is the point of playing pvp? "oh kill noobs, get artificial currency and buy golden stuffs from a khajit that spawns at a stupid time in the morning".

Yeah umm no thanks.

LegacyDM

Iyas wrote: »

Why are most ppl ok with fewer options? I dont get it.

You have the option to play nocp on azura. So go there but let the ppl stay on TF who enjoy CPs

And give the ppl the option to Queue for CP and/or no cp Bgs. Why do you want to force the CP players to do something they dont like.

Jeez its like the hardcore vegans who want to force their way on everyone

Rudyard wrote: »

Why do you want to take away player choice? The current system has both options; why reduce that?

Simple. They can't balance cp campaign. They never will. It's always going to be a contradiction. You can't raise both cps while simultaneously buffing and nerfing at the same time. Example, 3 updates of resource nerfs just to admit defeat and scrap a cp to something else. Which is what they are proposing in mortowind. Are they going to do that for other cp categories that will lead to opness? What are they going to do with defense cps? How about healing cps? scope creep is becoming a balancing nightmare. Look, I'm not saying get rid of cp altogether, use it in pve for maelstrom or trials.

They are already not endorsing cp with battle ground. Normally I would agree with you guys but I think cutting cps in pvp would be healthy for the game in the long run. Wrobel could focus his resources around balancing 1 game type. Wheeler could focus his efforts on fixing performance issues around 1 game type. Lambert could develop armor types around 1 type. Short answer it makes it easier for the devs to design and balance translating into less problems. The devs would then be free to focus on other areas of the game like spellcasting and new classes. I think the devs time is eaten up by self inflicted over ambitions.

The writing is on the wall folks. You think that 1 week no cp test was to test performance? Maybe it was but I would also submit to you it was to test the players reactions, evaluate community feedback, and look at technical data. Zos is distancing themselves from cps as evident in bg.

Kram8ion

I'd gladly switch to azuras on console
But how many times can we say
It's f**king DEAD

Smmokkee

makeumrage wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

makeumrage wrote: »

If you remove CP go ahead and delete cyrodill for console. Azuras never even gets one bar here. Noone wants that beginners no skill crud.

Many would argue that it actually takes more skill to compete without CP. They would be correct. Dont get me wrong, Azuras does currently attract less skilled players, but if they actually removed CP from every campaign, skill would play a much bigger factor in PVP.

I dont see it at all. Thats why the players who could never get a single kill by themselves usually loved no cp week. It was the only time they could kill people. I see it as to whole different worlds. I dont see either harder then the other what do ever.

That claim is just ridiculous.

Smmokkee

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Heruthema wrote: »

NO every server has a non CP campaign. Use that one if you want but do not force everyone to play your way.

As much as I agree with the OP I however agree with you more.

CP might be painful in some areas but ive been pvping a lot over the last two campaigns on trueflame and honestly, despite the stupid farming groups and the certain players who can some how summon all of their faction at 8 am to take keeps and get emp, im actually rather enjoying it.

I tried playing without it during no cp week and it was honestly boring and annoying.

MagDKs were absolutely disgustingly powerful as there was barely any resistance against the bs they can unleash with powerlash.

Sorcs hitting way harder than normal

Then the templars were even worse.

Remove CP from PvP completely and you gut whatever semblance of fun is left. Sorry, I wont follow the bandwagon. "cool kids are doing it therefore i must too!"

If my own progression cannot be factored in to how I play then what is the point of playing pvp? "oh kill noobs, get artificial currency and buy golden stuffs from a khajit that spawns at a stupid time in the morning".

Yeah umm no thanks.

Lol first of all its pvp the thing you should be trying to get out of it is good competition.. and morrowind is adding leaderboards with rewards so I'm just trying to figure out what you are trying to get out of pvp? If it's champion points theres much faster ways to do it lol.

You guys are all terrified of change but want to cry about how terrible pvp is day in and day out.

Waffennacht wrote: »

What are you people talking about? Xbox NA non CP is empty All The Time and is Always Red.

I spent Hours in different days at different times, Most Boring Experience Ever.

Where all these people?

Prob PC, but on Xbox no one is in non CP while CP always has action

That's because console has never played without CP.

Dr.NRG

No CP and pvp will die! No Cp campaigns are already completly empty! On top of that it will make the game boring cause build customizations will take a hit and most people already wear all the same gear and use same skill set ups. Through CP one can think outside the meta box and make unique builds. You take cp the game will be boring.
Cp is not necessarily the major issue of unbalance, its mostly sets and those will become an even bigger isuue again if you take cp away. Yes damage sets will deal less dmg and healing sets heal for less but compared to your recource management loss and low defenses without cp most ppl will run thses sets again.

FloppyTouch

Just no

FloppyTouch

Waffennacht wrote: »

What are you people talking about? Xbox NA non CP is empty All The Time and is Always Red.

I spent Hours in different days at different times, Most Boring Experience Ever.

Where all these people?

Prob PC, but on Xbox no one is in non CP while CP always has action

This, none cp campaign is dead no one want to fight with out cp bc we spent time working grinding for that cp it's not a crutch it's a part of our builds that we worked for. A lot of people I play with hate the idea of losing our hard work for cheap stats that don't fix anything.

When u play none cp you notice a huge advantage goes to Stam and a whole lot of other balancing issues like emp. I hate to say it but removing cp won't balance pvp it will remove players.

Jynxe

Azure star pvp is worse than trueflame PvP. In azure no CP troll king and orgnum scale is the ultimate cheese most ppl use and makes everyone almost unkillable. All this *** about no CP no CP is best is all ullshit.

disintegr8

If there are so many people who want PVP without CP, why have the non CP campaigns always been empty?

As long as ZOS keep both CP and non CP campaigns running, everyone has a choice - just leave everyone else to do what they want and move on.

LegacyDM

disintegr8 wrote: »

If there are so many people who want PVP without CP, why have the non CP campaigns always been empty?

As long as ZOS keep both CP and non CP campaigns running, everyone has a choice - just leave everyone else to do what they want and move on.

Because expending dev resources to balance something that is broken and unbalanceable is taking away resources that could be better spent on other aspects of the game. Quite frankly, cp campaigns will be legacy because bgs will be where it's at. Like it or not people will redesign builds for no cps regardless with upcoming bgs as the motivator. I've played both. Cp campaign = unbalanced trash.

Joy_Division

exeeter702 wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

I like using my 900 Cp I earned just to play PVP. You get a No from this guy

Iyas wrote: »

No. I Like my cps. And im playing Cap cps on EU and CP 300 on NA.

kongkim wrote: »

No thx i gained my CP.

I see this mentality pop up quite often and personally i take issue with it.

Generally, you have 2 camps of players,

A ) those that feel entitled to their cp earnings in game and take issue with having it "taken away" from them

B ) those that view those earnings as a byproduct of simply playing the game and couldnt care less as long as an enjoyable pvp experience remains.

I am 100 percent confident in saying that for those that truly enjoy pvp, their cp earnings couldnt be any less important vs having stable game performance and an environment where everyone is on equal footing at the foundation so player agency and ability takes front stage.

Hypothetically If they down tuned cp across the board but then gave everyone max cp to spend once they entered cyrodil it is likely that same group A that would cry foul about having "everything they worked for" be undermined.

Character progression is important in mmos to be sure, but there is enough that goes into fine tuning a build for pvp, that cp just feels like an arbitrary power boost just for the sake of.

There is a third camp:

C) Those who do not like how ZoS balances the game for CPs and then would be stuck playing under an entirely different rule system for PvP. ZoS balances the game with CP in mind - that is why poisons, siege, procs, etc., are busted on Azuras. Also ZoS took away core mechanics of the game and put them in the CP system on the assumption we'd have them back. And not to mention we are stuck playing with rules like dodge-roll penalty and no stam while blocking that were put in because the CP system.

ZoS they can't even balance on rule system and now people are asking them to simultaneously balance three (Pve, CP PvP, no CP PvP), even though gear, poisons, procs, all that stuff does not change at all.

Marktoneth3

really hard to kill people in trueflame unlike Azura where I wrath my heal with 1k dps and took down ppl