Look, zos, just remove CPs from PvP

LegacyDM

Zos, it was a noble effort. But just rip the bandaid off and remove cps from pvp. It's clear you can't balance around cps. I give you a bronze medal for effort though... this continuous resource management nerf every major update is getting rediculous. Looks as if in morrowind you will nerf again.

I just switched over to azura and the experience was amazing. No lag, no invincible heavy armor dps dishing healbots. I actually think it's fairly balanced. Now I understand why some of the top players like fengrush and Krotha switched over.

It's clear you cant balance cps. Every time you raise cp caps it reinforces cancer builds. Today it will be resources so you nerf resources. What happens when you nerf resource management to hell and you continue raising caps? Then blessed and quick recovery will become op and so forth. Then you will have to address those. It's an unwinnable battle. If your already entertaining the changing of cps or not allowing cps in battlegrounds than what is the point? It's also clear you have no confidence in your abilities to balance cps if you are just removing them from battlegrounds or changing cp categories.

Just scrap it and leave it intact for pve where no one has any complaints or issues. It will make life easier for you to balance around without cps.

Sorry folks but cp campaigns are trash. Once you go no cp and design a build that works there is no reason to go back. It's just a better experience, trust me.

DeadlyRecluse

Or just apply Battle Spirit to CPs for a week and see how that plays (half values on everything).

flguy147ub17_ESO

LegacyDM wrote: »

Zos, it was a noble effort. But just rip the bandaid off and remove cps from pvp. It's clear you can't balance around cps. I give you a bronze medal for effort though... this continuous resource management nerf every major update is getting rediculous. Looks as if in morrowind you will nerf again.

I just switched over to azura and the experience was amazing. No lag, no invincible heavy armor dps dishing healbots. I actually think it's fairly balanced. Now I understand why some of the top players like fengrush and Krotha switched over.

It's clear you cant balance cps. Every time you raise cp caps it reinforces cancer builds. Today it will be resources so you nerf resources. What happens when you nerf resource management to hell and you continue raising caps? Then blessed and quick recovery will become op and so forth. Then you will have to address those. It's an unwinnable battle. If your already entertaining the changing of cps or not allowing cps in battlegrounds than what is the point? It's also clear you have no confidence in your abilities to balance cps if you are just removing them from battlegrounds or changing cp categories.

Just scrap it and leave it intact for pve where no one has any complaints or issues. It will make life easier for you to balance around without cps.

Sorry folks but cp campaigns are trash. Once you go no cp and design a build that works there is no reason to go back. It's just a better experience, trust me.

Agree, Also i think it penalizes players for enjoying both PVE and PVP. To have the right CP setup, you have to respec your CP every single time you switch from PVE and PVP which cost money, so you are basically penalizing players for enjoying both PVE and PVP. Of course they could allow you to just have a PVP CP load out and a PVE one. But i agree with you that CP really threw a lot of things out of wack but many players now have never played without CP so this is all they know and its why console Azura is dead compared to PC Azura cause console player never experienced how good PVP use to be.

bulbousb16_ESO

Azura's Star is the best PvP campaign.

technohic

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Azura's Star is the best PvP campaign.

I wish people would discover that and it was popping as much as it did during double AP week...

That said; you can leave the CP PVP for the people who "like" it but when they complain about balance, there should be a disclaimer that due to CP possibly being the cause, its a play at your own risk as CP is now balanced for PvE

makeumrage

If you remove CP go ahead and delete cyrodill for console. Azuras never even gets one bar here. Noone wants that beginners no skill crud.

Iyas

No. I Like my cps. And im playing Cap cps on EU and CP 300 on NA.

Rainwhisper

As someone who is PvE only, and tired of having things nerfed because of how they affect PvP, this seems perfectly reasonable to me.

LegacyDM

makeumrage wrote: »

If you remove CP go ahead and delete cyrodill for console. Azuras never even gets one bar here. Noone wants that beginners no skill crud.

Get rid of cps and all the players will be forced to play azuras? You will see console or not the balance is better. At least on pc all the skilled players are migrating over to no cps. Hence that's why I cited fengrush and Krotha.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

makeumrage wrote: »

If you remove CP go ahead and delete cyrodill for console. Azuras never even gets one bar here. Noone wants that beginners no skill crud.

Many would argue that it actually takes more skill to compete without CP. They would be correct. Dont get me wrong, Azuras does currently attract less skilled players, but if they actually removed CP from every campaign, skill would play a much bigger factor in PVP.

DHale

No cp pvp is boring. Heavy and light attacking no bueno. Btw I made more ap the week after the double ap week dunking baddies on Azura but hey more power to you. I only went there to help guildies get EMP which was way easier unfortunately.

Mashille

This begs the question of if you switched over to Azura and found it amazing then stay in Azura?

Sovaso

NO! Just learn it already!

diesel5304

I use to play on the non-cp campaigns a lot due to the fact that my cp was really low, I'm now around 490 something and have been on the cp camps now for awhile and do enjoy it more than non-cp. I feel like the quality of players I play with and against are just much better and it makes the experience more fun.

Koolio

I like using my 900 Cp I earned just to play PVP. You get a No from this guy

GrumpyDuckling

When fighting other players, no CP is fun. Having to fight CPU enemies in Cyrodiil (while trying to take a keep or resource) without CP is not fun.

I'm somewhere in the middle of this argument.

Drdeath20

It wont make a difference.

Pvp will be always be a mess as long as people can freely jump from alliance to allaince on alts.

technohic

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

When fighting other players, no CP is fun. Having to fight CPU enemies in Cyrodiil (while trying to take a keep or resource) without CP is not fun.

I'm somewhere in the middle of this argument.

Yeah; I started running resource poisons myself after getting bit by it often (seriously; 60% is kind of steep even with CP) and in all my time running around; I had managed to avoid siege pretty well but I finally got rooted and took a cold fire balista to the face last night. That kind of sucks. And the keeps that have the higher level NPCs are a bit ridiculous as well.

They should just adjust that stuff for non-CP. I also get a bit leary when I see CP campaign people talking about things being OP that I just do not see in Azuras and I worry about it getting nerfed rather than the CP that is causing it.

Heruthema

NO every server has a non CP campaign. Use that one if you want but do not force everyone to play your way.

Arthg

I whole-heartedly agree with the OP.

To me no-CP PvP is king in this game.
I find it more tactical (resource management being crucial), more balanced and more diverse build-wise.
I've got somewhere around 660 CPs, but I don't want to be carried by them - what time I've spent in Cyro, what experience I've gained, are more than enough already.

kongkim

No thx i gained my CP.

FENGRUSH

Ultimately - ZOS pointed out that nonCP is a focus on BGs. If my arguments on forum and on stream dont sway you, that should send you a clear message that CP has dramatically impacted PVP in a negative way. Im happy the devs finally got on board and realized this. But thats the benefit of having experienced end game PVPers demonstrate for them how broken the game is with ever-increasing CP.

If you enjoy the CP only gameplay, go for it. If you think its more skilled - its not. It gives you a huge cushion to create high survival in builds and ignore the weaknesses they would otherwise have naturally. Even better is group play - bad decisions will get you punished. You dont get a higher allowance of get out of jail cards like you do on CP. To each their own - PC NA Azura campaign has been increasinly populated, and thats a good thing. Pop is fine, its locked a lot of nights when I go in. If other platforms avoid it - meh. Ive watched some console streamers in Cyro. They fight a high volume of targets that arent even max CP. Thats a huge favor - so please spare 'the skill' comments.

Micah_Bayer

LegacyDM wrote: »

makeumrage wrote: »

If you remove CP go ahead and delete cyrodill for console. Azuras never even gets one bar here. Noone wants that beginners no skill crud.

Get rid of cps and all the players will be forced to play azuras? You will see console or not the balance is better. At least on pc all the skilled players are migrating over to no cps. Hence that's why I cited fengrush and Krotha.

All the good players switched over..What about me?

FENGRUSH

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

makeumrage wrote: »

If you remove CP go ahead and delete cyrodill for console. Azuras never even gets one bar here. Noone wants that beginners no skill crud.

Get rid of cps and all the players will be forced to play azuras? You will see console or not the balance is better. At least on pc all the skilled players are migrating over to no cps. Hence that's why I cited fengrush and Krotha.

All the good players switched over..What about me?

Arent you Komodo D?

Eleusian

Just remove CP , top it off with PVP having its own gear specifically for PVP. Too many irons in the fire for overall balance , trial bosses don't make QQ threads.

xaraan

Both have their good and bad. But non CP is a bit more fun. ZoS needs to balance the game better for that if that's the case, guards and siege are a bit too strong in non CP and as usual bodies mean more than skill (the case in both types of pvp), so seeing aoe caps gone would be nice.

STEVIL

LegacyDM wrote: »

Zos, it was a noble effort. But just rip the bandaid off and remove cps from pvp. It's clear you can't balance around cps. I give you a bronze medal for effort though... this continuous resource management nerf every major update is getting rediculous. Looks as if in morrowind you will nerf again.

I just switched over to azura and the experience was amazing. No lag, no invincible heavy armor dps dishing healbots. I actually think it's fairly balanced. Now I understand why some of the top players like fengrush and Krotha switched over.

It's clear you cant balance cps. Every time you raise cp caps it reinforces cancer builds. Today it will be resources so you nerf resources. What happens when you nerf resource management to hell and you continue raising caps? Then blessed and quick recovery will become op and so forth. Then you will have to address those. It's an unwinnable battle. If your already entertaining the changing of cps or not allowing cps in battlegrounds than what is the point? It's also clear you have no confidence in your abilities to balance cps if you are just removing them from battlegrounds or changing cp categories.

Just scrap it and leave it intact for pve where no one has any complaints or issues. It will make life easier for you to balance around without cps.

Sorry folks but cp campaigns are trash. Once you go no cp and design a build that works there is no reason to go back. It's just a better experience, trust me.

they have cp campaigns and non-cp campaigns so you can do either one you want and you want to just take the cp option away from those who like it?

My vote - no.

exeeter702

Koolio wrote: »

I like using my 900 Cp I earned just to play PVP. You get a No from this guy

Iyas wrote: »

No. I Like my cps. And im playing Cap cps on EU and CP 300 on NA.

kongkim wrote: »

No thx i gained my CP.

I see this mentality pop up quite often and personally i take issue with it.

Generally, you have 2 camps of players,

A ) those that feel entitled to their cp earnings in game and take issue with having it "taken away" from them

B ) those that view those earnings as a byproduct of simply playing the game and couldnt care less as long as an enjoyable pvp experience remains.

I am 100 percent confident in saying that for those that truly enjoy pvp, their cp earnings couldnt be any less important vs having stable game performance and an environment where everyone is on equal footing at the foundation so player agency and ability takes front stage.

Hypothetically If they down tuned cp across the board but then gave everyone max cp to spend once they entered cyrodil it is likely that same group A that would cry foul about having "everything they worked for" be undermined.

Character progression is important in mmos to be sure, but there is enough that goes into fine tuning a build for pvp, that cp just feels like an arbitrary power boost just for the sake of.

Vanthras79

LegacyDM wrote: »

Zos, it was a noble effort. But just rip the bandaid off and remove cps from pvp. It's clear you can't balance around cps. I give you a bronze medal for effort though... this continuous resource management nerf every major update is getting rediculous. Looks as if in morrowind you will nerf again.

I just switched over to azura and the experience was amazing. No lag, no invincible heavy armor dps dishing healbots. I actually think it's fairly balanced. Now I understand why some of the top players like fengrush and Krotha switched over.

It's clear you cant balance cps. Every time you raise cp caps it reinforces cancer builds. Today it will be resources so you nerf resources. What happens when you nerf resource management to hell and you continue raising caps? Then blessed and quick recovery will become op and so forth. Then you will have to address those. It's an unwinnable battle. If your already entertaining the changing of cps or not allowing cps in battlegrounds than what is the point? It's also clear you have no confidence in your abilities to balance cps if you are just removing them from battlegrounds or changing cp categories.

Just scrap it and leave it intact for pve where no one has any complaints or issues. It will make life easier for you to balance around without cps.

Sorry folks but cp campaigns are trash. Once you go no cp and design a build that works there is no reason to go back. It's just a better experience, trust me.

I second this!

IronCrystal

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

Zos, it was a noble effort. But just rip the bandaid off and remove cps from pvp. It's clear you can't balance around cps. I give you a bronze medal for effort though... this continuous resource management nerf every major update is getting rediculous. Looks as if in morrowind you will nerf again.

I just switched over to azura and the experience was amazing. No lag, no invincible heavy armor dps dishing healbots. I actually think it's fairly balanced. Now I understand why some of the top players like fengrush and Krotha switched over.

It's clear you cant balance cps. Every time you raise cp caps it reinforces cancer builds. Today it will be resources so you nerf resources. What happens when you nerf resource management to hell and you continue raising caps? Then blessed and quick recovery will become op and so forth. Then you will have to address those. It's an unwinnable battle. If your already entertaining the changing of cps or not allowing cps in battlegrounds than what is the point? It's also clear you have no confidence in your abilities to balance cps if you are just removing them from battlegrounds or changing cp categories.

Just scrap it and leave it intact for pve where no one has any complaints or issues. It will make life easier for you to balance around without cps.

Sorry folks but cp campaigns are trash. Once you go no cp and design a build that works there is no reason to go back. It's just a better experience, trust me.

Agree, Also i think it penalizes players for enjoying both PVE and PVP. To have the right CP setup, you have to respec your CP every single time you switch from PVE and PVP which cost money, so you are basically penalizing players for enjoying both PVE and PVP. Of course they could allow you to just have a PVP CP load out and a PVE one. But i agree with you that CP really threw a lot of things out of wack but many players now have never played without CP so this is all they know and its why console Azura is dead compared to PC Azura cause console player never experienced how good PVP use to be.

I have to change my CPs almost every time I enter a vet trial. How is this a problem?

Koolio

exeeter702 wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

I like using my 900 Cp I earned just to play PVP. You get a No from this guy

Iyas wrote: »

No. I Like my cps. And im playing Cap cps on EU and CP 300 on NA.

kongkim wrote: »

No thx i gained my CP.

I see this mentality pop up quite often and personally i take issue with it.

Generally, you have 2 camps of players,

A ) those that feel entitled to their cp earnings in game and take issue with having it "taken away" from them

B ) those that view those earnings as a byproduct of simply playing the game and couldnt care less as long as an enjoyable pvp experience remains.

I am 100 percent confident in saying that for those that truly enjoy pvp, their cp earnings couldnt be any less important vs having stable game performance and an environment where everyone is on equal footing at the foundation so player agency and ability takes front stage.

Hypothetically If they down tuned cp across the board but then gave everyone max cp to spend once they entered cyrodil it is likely that same group A that would cry foul about having "everything they worked for" be undermined.

Character progression is important in mmos to be sure, but there is enough that goes into fine tuning a build for pvp, that cp just feels like an arbitrary power boost just for the sake of.

i just don't like progress that was made to be "tuned down". It makes people not want to continue because all progress would eventually be "tuned". You say entitled however they were earned through numerous hours to get every little percent of stats that I could. I wouldn't even mind giving everyone Max Cp in CP PVP. At least we would be on an "even" playing field. And how do you know I don't truly enjoy PVP. It's why I sign on everyday.