Magicka Sorcs got WAY to much love...

Lord-Otto

aLi3nZ wrote: »

lolwut is this nonsense about sorc being tied to sustain sets?

witches brew(stam users jelly) + Astronaunch + Divines Armour pieces=1850 Magika regen

And you are free to use whatever 2 damage sets / monster helm you want.

If you want mad sustain add 1xShadowfen (126 Magika Recovery) 1x Chokthorn(126 Magika Recovery) along with the above

Hm, Witchmother's is lacking a bit damage and health. Atronach deprives you of the very powerful Thief damage. Divines is just NO in PvP.
Yes, you can run two damage sets with this, but the losses outweigh that second set.

olsborg

Minalan wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Devilhand wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

LOL gankblades complaining about other classes being OP.

Hmm... Actually if you read carefully I said I odnt like to go with cheesy gank builds. My point is there is no counter atm for that skill as a stamina class, and by the way curse already was pretty much OP, they made it worse.

There is no also no counter from being randomly ganked from stealth as a Magicka Sorc by a Gankblade. I think this is one of ZOSes ways of checks and balances. Gankblades still one shot players with procs stacking btw. Atm from a Sorcs POV. I'm more worried about a random gankblade then another sorc ganking me.

Now that all being said. WHERE IS MAH ANTI RANDOM GANK COUNTER? And far as curse goes it's the only move sorcs have exclusively that can be a pain in rear end other then mines. Now how many does Gankblades have.
- Incap
- Ambush
- Shadow Image
- Lets not even talk about Mass Hysteria(Fear)

In my opinion those skills are way more annoying then curse. Even more so when used from stealth with ani-canceling. Way more powerful then curse or mines.

You know what now thinking about. It's time to put my sorc away and bring out my stamblade. Way more easy to kill on a stamblade then a sorc. That's why many people are forced to wear Heavy Armor in Cyrodiil. Because dying without getting the opportunity to fight back. Is on the Top 10 list of Lamest Things introduced to this world.(Ganking)

Of course Gankblades are going to cry, when they now have a little bit of competition to deal with. The very playstyle promotes getting yourself into a position(gear-wise, and location-wise) to kill your opponent, before they can react and deny them any chance of a fight. Now while I personally dislike playing that way because you know. I like hurling spells at peoples faces and fighting. Not to just hide in the shadows to gank some poor sob, that has no chance. If I want to do that I'd go play Assassin's Creed or Hitman or something like that, much more satisfying. But to each his/her own. I don't talk down on people who do a lot. Unless they are the gankblades that either proc'ed me to death, or group ganked me, and started to tea bag me. Those type of guys will never get my respect.

But hey guys Nerf Sorcs till they are useless again, right? Again people like OP are the reason I have 11 Max Level characters. Cause to me it's threads like these, and the nerf RD ones coming from gankers which are the most laughable. I honestly don't know how ZOS even takes them seriously. But apparently they do when one group of players start spamming them, so oh well.

Anti Gank Counters are:

-Radiant mage light
- Dark prison (morph that you put on yourself)
- Revealing Flair
- Miats Addon
- Shields

-Radiant mage light - (Has very short range, and don't pop players out of stealth if they are ganking at range.)

- Dark prison (morph that you put on yourself) (Defensive Rune is more then likely the only skill that will give you a proactive way of not getting ganked. So good point here.)
-
- Revealing Flair - (short range most gankers are very fast and can out run it. Also it doesn't stop you nor prolong the act of getting ganked, because it's reactive and not proactive.)
-
- Miats Addon - (The fact that someone had to make a addon to help players from getting ganked out of no where instead of the devs, balancing insta-ganks is laughable at best. Even tho more then likely should. I'm not going to count this to your points. Just because of the fact it's a addon and also console users would not have access to it.)

- Shields - (Ugggh... Ok.... So shields do not stop you from getting ganked from the rip anymore. Shields are also reactive and not proactive, meaning if you are relying on shields to prevent you from getting ganked, all I have to say to you is Rest In Pepperonis.

Agreed. Except:

Defensive rune is terrible anti-gank mechanism because good gankers drink an immovable/magicka pot before making a move. Even better gankers use it to proc clever alchemist for the big burst gank.

Shields are no good to prevent ganks because they're going to be down when the nightblade hits. If you try keeping up a shield stack every few seconds, your fingers will fall off after a long walk. (Because you can't use a horse and keep shields up).

Miats was patched out, it doesn't work.

That leaves RML, but seriously. Even that rarely works because it won't halve viper/believe/widow proc set damage, or the followup fear/incap/sa spam.

The NB's here need to stop overselling their counters. You guys are fine. We're fine. Just play the game. Curse is a hard counter if you're trying to 1vX five Sorcs, I'm sorry but that's balanced just the same as anyone trying to 1vX five nightblades.

RML should perhaps reduce dmg taken for 2s after being stealth attacked, just a suggestion.

Biro123

aLi3nZ wrote: »

lolwut is this nonsense about sorc being tied to sustain sets?

witches brew(stam users jelly) + Astronaunch + Divines Armour pieces=1850 Magika regen

And you are free to use whatever 2 damage sets / monster helm you want.

If you want mad sustain add 1xShadowfen (126 Magika Recovery) 1x Chokthorn(126 Magika Recovery) along with the above

I much prefer tri-stat food over witches brew. 9k stam with no stam recov is a death sentence.

The only way I've managed to PVP with a magsorc without a sustain set is using heavy for constitution and dark-exchange and resto heavy-attacks to top-up regularly.

BuggeX

.

Lord-Otto

BuggeX wrote: »

.

Bugge's got a point!
;P

Decado

I'm sorry are people complaining that 3/4 people who actively Time an ability (curse) into 1 person so they deal the damage SHOULDNT kill Them? Are you high! If any 3/4 competent players perfectly time attacks on 1 player then that 1 player should be dead you shouldn't expect to be able to tank 4 players perfectly timed attacks unless you are a no damage perma blocking tank and that's because they sacrificed damage to do that,

As for 1 person killing 15 good players that's hilarious and I think we have a very different definition of the word good

BuggeX

Minalan wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Devilhand wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

LOL gankblades complaining about other classes being OP.

Hmm... Actually if you read carefully I said I odnt like to go with cheesy gank builds. My point is there is no counter atm for that skill as a stamina class, and by the way curse already was pretty much OP, they made it worse.

There is no also no counter from being randomly ganked from stealth as a Magicka Sorc by a Gankblade. I think this is one of ZOSes ways of checks and balances. Gankblades still one shot players with procs stacking btw. Atm from a Sorcs POV. I'm more worried about a random gankblade then another sorc ganking me.

Now that all being said. WHERE IS MAH ANTI RANDOM GANK COUNTER? And far as curse goes it's the only move sorcs have exclusively that can be a pain in rear end other then mines. Now how many does Gankblades have.
- Incap
- Ambush
- Shadow Image
- Lets not even talk about Mass Hysteria(Fear)

In my opinion those skills are way more annoying then curse. Even more so when used from stealth with ani-canceling. Way more powerful then curse or mines.

You know what now thinking about. It's time to put my sorc away and bring out my stamblade. Way more easy to kill on a stamblade then a sorc. That's why many people are forced to wear Heavy Armor in Cyrodiil. Because dying without getting the opportunity to fight back. Is on the Top 10 list of Lamest Things introduced to this world.(Ganking)

Of course Gankblades are going to cry, when they now have a little bit of competition to deal with. The very playstyle promotes getting yourself into a position(gear-wise, and location-wise) to kill your opponent, before they can react and deny them any chance of a fight. Now while I personally dislike playing that way because you know. I like hurling spells at peoples faces and fighting. Not to just hide in the shadows to gank some poor sob, that has no chance. If I want to do that I'd go play Assassin's Creed or Hitman or something like that, much more satisfying. But to each his/her own. I don't talk down on people who do a lot. Unless they are the gankblades that either proc'ed me to death, or group ganked me, and started to tea bag me. Those type of guys will never get my respect.

But hey guys Nerf Sorcs till they are useless again, right? Again people like OP are the reason I have 11 Max Level characters. Cause to me it's threads like these, and the nerf RD ones coming from gankers which are the most laughable. I honestly don't know how ZOS even takes them seriously. But apparently they do when one group of players start spamming them, so oh well.

Anti Gank Counters are:

-Radiant mage light
- Dark prison (morph that you put on yourself)
- Revealing Flair
- Miats Addon
- Shields

-Radiant mage light - (Has very short range, and don't pop players out of stealth if they are ganking at range.)

- Dark prison (morph that you put on yourself) (Defensive Rune is more then likely the only skill that will give you a proactive way of not getting ganked. So good point here.)
-
- Revealing Flair - (short range most gankers are very fast and can out run it. Also it doesn't stop you nor prolong the act of getting ganked, because it's reactive and not proactive.)
-
- Miats Addon - (The fact that someone had to make a addon to help players from getting ganked out of no where instead of the devs, balancing insta-ganks is laughable at best. Even tho more then likely should. I'm not going to count this to your points. Just because of the fact it's a addon and also console users would not have access to it.)

- Shields - (Ugggh... Ok.... So shields do not stop you from getting ganked from the rip anymore. Shields are also reactive and not proactive, meaning if you are relying on shields to prevent you from getting ganked, all I have to say to you is Rest In Pepperonis.

Agreed. Except:

Defensive rune is terrible anti-gank mechanism because good gankers drink an immovable/magicka pot before making a move. Even better gankers use it to proc clever alchemist for the big burst gank.

Shields are no good to prevent ganks because they're going to be down when the nightblade hits. If you try keeping up a shield stack every few seconds, your fingers will fall off after a long walk. (Because you can't use a horse and keep shields up).

Miats was patched out, it doesn't work.

That leaves RML, but seriously. Even that rarely works because it won't halve viper/believe/widow proc set damage, or the followup fear/incap/sa spam.

The NB's here need to stop overselling their counters. You guys are fine. We're fine. Just play the game. Curse is a hard counter if you're trying to 1vX five Sorcs, I'm sorry but that's balanced just the same as anyone trying to 1vX five nightblades.

you guys Need to stop saying sorc is fine, sorce has now a whole bar with unavoidable dmg exept frag. we do not talk about 1vx but 1v1. absolutly no class or build can Counter that skills,

crushing shock cant be reflected,
curse cant be reflected or blocked or doged
fury cant be reflected or blocked or doged
Meteor cant be reflected
lightnign staff cant be reflected or doged (exept la)

lighting can proc Implosion that is unavoidable

left is the frag that can be refleced doged and blocked


all that skills hits pretty hard while sorc can maintain theyr deffence with shilds.

more magicka and spelldmg the harder the skills and shilds, it make it near impossible to win 1v1.
with infernal Guardian you dont have a oppening to sorcs as they spam unavoidable dmg and Keep shilds up, the fight will go on till the other class than sorc run out of ress to heal himself

im fine with skills Counter deffensive skills such as refelct or doge, but shilds do not have any Counter at all exept shildbraker and thats Stamina exclusive. and thats pretty lame to, it would be the same that there is just a single set for magicka that Counter shuffel

so while sorc has a lot of skills that Counter all different deffensive abilitys they have a def ability that doesnt have a single Counter at all. if you can tell me a single valid Option to kill a good sorc im fine

and do not argue with ganks, ganking is a Counter to anything

Lord-Otto

Bugge,
Surprise Attack can't be reflected. DK DoTs can't be blocked. Power Extraction/Sap/Steel Tornado can't be dodged. ...
Sorcs needed a few unavoidable moves, and other classes have them, too.

To kill a good sorc you gotta pressure him. Shields fall easily to attack strings and are expensive to keep up. They also allow little offense while you're casting those. And as always, roots and stuns drain the small stamina pool. You must stay on top of sorcs to win, just how it should be.

Biro123

BuggeX wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Devilhand wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

LOL gankblades complaining about other classes being OP.

Hmm... Actually if you read carefully I said I odnt like to go with cheesy gank builds. My point is there is no counter atm for that skill as a stamina class, and by the way curse already was pretty much OP, they made it worse.

There is no also no counter from being randomly ganked from stealth as a Magicka Sorc by a Gankblade. I think this is one of ZOSes ways of checks and balances. Gankblades still one shot players with procs stacking btw. Atm from a Sorcs POV. I'm more worried about a random gankblade then another sorc ganking me.

Now that all being said. WHERE IS MAH ANTI RANDOM GANK COUNTER? And far as curse goes it's the only move sorcs have exclusively that can be a pain in rear end other then mines. Now how many does Gankblades have.
- Incap
- Ambush
- Shadow Image
- Lets not even talk about Mass Hysteria(Fear)

In my opinion those skills are way more annoying then curse. Even more so when used from stealth with ani-canceling. Way more powerful then curse or mines.

You know what now thinking about. It's time to put my sorc away and bring out my stamblade. Way more easy to kill on a stamblade then a sorc. That's why many people are forced to wear Heavy Armor in Cyrodiil. Because dying without getting the opportunity to fight back. Is on the Top 10 list of Lamest Things introduced to this world.(Ganking)

Of course Gankblades are going to cry, when they now have a little bit of competition to deal with. The very playstyle promotes getting yourself into a position(gear-wise, and location-wise) to kill your opponent, before they can react and deny them any chance of a fight. Now while I personally dislike playing that way because you know. I like hurling spells at peoples faces and fighting. Not to just hide in the shadows to gank some poor sob, that has no chance. If I want to do that I'd go play Assassin's Creed or Hitman or something like that, much more satisfying. But to each his/her own. I don't talk down on people who do a lot. Unless they are the gankblades that either proc'ed me to death, or group ganked me, and started to tea bag me. Those type of guys will never get my respect.

But hey guys Nerf Sorcs till they are useless again, right? Again people like OP are the reason I have 11 Max Level characters. Cause to me it's threads like these, and the nerf RD ones coming from gankers which are the most laughable. I honestly don't know how ZOS even takes them seriously. But apparently they do when one group of players start spamming them, so oh well.

Anti Gank Counters are:

-Radiant mage light
- Dark prison (morph that you put on yourself)
- Revealing Flair
- Miats Addon
- Shields

-Radiant mage light - (Has very short range, and don't pop players out of stealth if they are ganking at range.)

- Dark prison (morph that you put on yourself) (Defensive Rune is more then likely the only skill that will give you a proactive way of not getting ganked. So good point here.)
-
- Revealing Flair - (short range most gankers are very fast and can out run it. Also it doesn't stop you nor prolong the act of getting ganked, because it's reactive and not proactive.)
-
- Miats Addon - (The fact that someone had to make a addon to help players from getting ganked out of no where instead of the devs, balancing insta-ganks is laughable at best. Even tho more then likely should. I'm not going to count this to your points. Just because of the fact it's a addon and also console users would not have access to it.)

- Shields - (Ugggh... Ok.... So shields do not stop you from getting ganked from the rip anymore. Shields are also reactive and not proactive, meaning if you are relying on shields to prevent you from getting ganked, all I have to say to you is Rest In Pepperonis.

Agreed. Except:

Defensive rune is terrible anti-gank mechanism because good gankers drink an immovable/magicka pot before making a move. Even better gankers use it to proc clever alchemist for the big burst gank.

Shields are no good to prevent ganks because they're going to be down when the nightblade hits. If you try keeping up a shield stack every few seconds, your fingers will fall off after a long walk. (Because you can't use a horse and keep shields up).

Miats was patched out, it doesn't work.

That leaves RML, but seriously. Even that rarely works because it won't halve viper/believe/widow proc set damage, or the followup fear/incap/sa spam.

The NB's here need to stop overselling their counters. You guys are fine. We're fine. Just play the game. Curse is a hard counter if you're trying to 1vX five Sorcs, I'm sorry but that's balanced just the same as anyone trying to 1vX five nightblades.

you guys Need to stop saying sorc is fine, sorce has now a whole bar with unavoidable dmg exept frag. we do not talk about 1vx but 1v1. absolutly no class or build can Counter that skills,

crushing shock cant be reflected,
curse cant be reflected or blocked or doged
fury cant be reflected or blocked or doged
Meteor cant be reflected
lightnign staff cant be reflected or doged (exept la)

lighting can proc Implosion that is unavoidable

left is the frag that can be refleced doged and blocked


all that skills hits pretty hard while sorc can maintain theyr deffence with shilds.

more magicka and spelldmg the harder the skills and shilds, it make it near impossible to win 1v1.
with infernal Guardian you dont have a oppening to sorcs as they spam unavoidable dmg and Keep shilds up, the fight will go on till the other class than sorc run out of ress to heal himself

im fine with skills Counter deffensive skills such as refelct or doge, but shilds do not have any Counter at all exept shildbraker and thats Stamina exclusive.

so while sorc has a lot of skills that Counter all different deffensive abilitys they have a def ability that doesnt have a single Counter at all. if you can tell me a single valid Option to kill a good sorc im fine

and do not argue with ganks, ganking is a Counter to anything

I'm gonna disagree with some of your stuff here..:

crushing shock is easily blocked/dodged and does poor damage
curse is the ONE ability that cannot be avoided
fury - hm not sure here.. thought it could be blocked and dodged - at least the initial cast
Meteor - its an ulti - it shouldn't be reflected. It can't be dodged, but is VERY easily blockable which annuls most of its damage
lightnign staff cant be reflected or doged (exept la) - but you can't weave a heavy attack with it..

lighting can proc Implosion that is unavoidable - agree - I don't like implosion

left is the frag that can be refleced doged and blocked - which is the main damage dealer and gets dodged/reflected/blocked 80% of the time since its easy to see/predict.

Out of those 7 listed, 3 are available to ANY class - they are not sorc abilities. Sorcs use CS so much ONLY because they don't have any kind of class spammable - not because they want to.

And even then, not many setups can fit these all in their skillbars. If you made your front bar include all of these abilities, there'd be no magelight for the much-needed mag/crit boost and no room for pets - needed for necropotence - so we're talking about a fairly low magicka build.
Back bar would be the 3 shields, surge, streak. No room for any other utility. No mines, no cc, no defensive rune, no boundless storm.

But while I disagree with you on this, I do think the destro dmg buffs should have only really applied to destro abilities and the curse change wasn't needed.

BuggeX

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Bugge,
Surprise Attack can't be reflected. DK DoTs can't be blocked. Power Extraction/Sap/Steel Tornado can't be dodged. ...
Sorcs needed a few unavoidable moves, and other classes have them, too.

To kill a good sorc you gotta pressure him. Shields fall easily to attack strings and are expensive to keep up. They also allow little offense while you're casting those. And as always, roots and stuns drain the small stamina pool. You must stay on top of sorcs to win, just how it should be.

yes, as i said, ist ok and good to have Counter skills to different deffensive abilitys, now tell me one for shilds.

and btw, no meele skill can be reflected and no aoe can be doged.

Lord-Otto

BuggeX wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Bugge,
Surprise Attack can't be reflected. DK DoTs can't be blocked. Power Extraction/Sap/Steel Tornado can't be dodged. ...
Sorcs needed a few unavoidable moves, and other classes have them, too.

To kill a good sorc you gotta pressure him. Shields fall easily to attack strings and are expensive to keep up. They also allow little offense while you're casting those. And as always, roots and stuns drain the small stamina pool. You must stay on top of sorcs to win, just how it should be.

yes, as i said, ist ok and good to have Counter skills to different deffensive abilitys, now tell me one for shilds.

and btw, no meele skill can be reflected and no aoe can be doged.

Exactly. No melee skill can be reflected. Why should ranged? In the era of gapclosers? And PE/Sap/Tornado are leagues better than Impulse.

And the counter to shields, as I said, is pressure. Or CC if your sorc enemy gets careless.
I mean, there is also no counter to healing. Defile is the counter to Mending, then we have Vitality.

It's imprecise to compare shields to dodge alone. Shields are closer to HP healing in terms of defense numbers. Shields are instant HP, because dodge delivers the evasiveness to make HoTs tick.
And remember, no mitigation on shields. Heavy armor is no use for shields, but benefits healing a lot. Yes, you can't crit shields, but you still have to wear impen, and that doesn't benefit shields. However, shields can't crit, whereas healing consistently gets a free 50% performance boost half the time.

FearlessOne_2014

In my opinion sorcs are only strong as long as they have a shield up. Which is a simi active defense, they have to case every 1 or 2 attacks or every 6 secs. I'll say it again. Once that magicka sorcerer has no magicka to cast his or her shield, or if he or she doesn't manage shileds properly, that sorc will die in very fast order.

So there is a trade off there.

@aLi3nZ and sorcs has to manage two resource bars carefully or it's died. Stamina users only have to manage one. I do agree that the state of forcing the sorc into the shield stacking playstyle is pretty garbage and does lead to balance issues.

Honestly what is yalls goal here for complaining about sorcerers? Do yall truly seek balance? or Do yall just want sorcerer to be a free kill? or Do yall not even know what yall want, and just screaming because other people are screaming? Or do yall want to force sorcs to join the heavy armor parade?


I think ZOS should allow the Sorcerer class to move away from it's shield stacking playstyle. However I believe ZOS should achieve this by making Light Armor take the place of shield and then nerf shields of sorcs. Once they do not need them.

---

Templar = Massive Heals, great group force multiplier.

DK = Turtle playstyle with bruiser type mechanics.

NB = Assassin hit, run, and hide type playstyle(our favorite)

Sorc without shields = ??????? A dead sorc? Or a sorc being miserable in heavy armor, since heavy armor synergies with sorcs very poorly compare to other classes.

I have no problem dealing with Heavy Armored magicka users on my Sorcs. How ever the LA backline sorc is a terror to behold.

What do yall think? Am I fairly accurate with my prognosis? Feedback is welcomed!

Derra

olsborg wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Devilhand wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

LOL gankblades complaining about other classes being OP.

Hmm... Actually if you read carefully I said I odnt like to go with cheesy gank builds. My point is there is no counter atm for that skill as a stamina class, and by the way curse already was pretty much OP, they made it worse.

There is no also no counter from being randomly ganked from stealth as a Magicka Sorc by a Gankblade. I think this is one of ZOSes ways of checks and balances. Gankblades still one shot players with procs stacking btw. Atm from a Sorcs POV. I'm more worried about a random gankblade then another sorc ganking me.

Now that all being said. WHERE IS MAH ANTI RANDOM GANK COUNTER? And far as curse goes it's the only move sorcs have exclusively that can be a pain in rear end other then mines. Now how many does Gankblades have.
- Incap
- Ambush
- Shadow Image
- Lets not even talk about Mass Hysteria(Fear)

In my opinion those skills are way more annoying then curse. Even more so when used from stealth with ani-canceling. Way more powerful then curse or mines.

You know what now thinking about. It's time to put my sorc away and bring out my stamblade. Way more easy to kill on a stamblade then a sorc. That's why many people are forced to wear Heavy Armor in Cyrodiil. Because dying without getting the opportunity to fight back. Is on the Top 10 list of Lamest Things introduced to this world.(Ganking)

Of course Gankblades are going to cry, when they now have a little bit of competition to deal with. The very playstyle promotes getting yourself into a position(gear-wise, and location-wise) to kill your opponent, before they can react and deny them any chance of a fight. Now while I personally dislike playing that way because you know. I like hurling spells at peoples faces and fighting. Not to just hide in the shadows to gank some poor sob, that has no chance. If I want to do that I'd go play Assassin's Creed or Hitman or something like that, much more satisfying. But to each his/her own. I don't talk down on people who do a lot. Unless they are the gankblades that either proc'ed me to death, or group ganked me, and started to tea bag me. Those type of guys will never get my respect.

But hey guys Nerf Sorcs till they are useless again, right? Again people like OP are the reason I have 11 Max Level characters. Cause to me it's threads like these, and the nerf RD ones coming from gankers which are the most laughable. I honestly don't know how ZOS even takes them seriously. But apparently they do when one group of players start spamming them, so oh well.

Anti Gank Counters are:

-Radiant mage light
- Dark prison (morph that you put on yourself)
- Revealing Flair
- Miats Addon
- Shields

-Radiant mage light - (Has very short range, and don't pop players out of stealth if they are ganking at range.)

- Dark prison (morph that you put on yourself) (Defensive Rune is more then likely the only skill that will give you a proactive way of not getting ganked. So good point here.)
-
- Revealing Flair - (short range most gankers are very fast and can out run it. Also it doesn't stop you nor prolong the act of getting ganked, because it's reactive and not proactive.)
-
- Miats Addon - (The fact that someone had to make a addon to help players from getting ganked out of no where instead of the devs, balancing insta-ganks is laughable at best. Even tho more then likely should. I'm not going to count this to your points. Just because of the fact it's a addon and also console users would not have access to it.)

- Shields - (Ugggh... Ok.... So shields do not stop you from getting ganked from the rip anymore. Shields are also reactive and not proactive, meaning if you are relying on shields to prevent you from getting ganked, all I have to say to you is Rest In Pepperonis.

Agreed. Except:

Defensive rune is terrible anti-gank mechanism because good gankers drink an immovable/magicka pot before making a move. Even better gankers use it to proc clever alchemist for the big burst gank.

Shields are no good to prevent ganks because they're going to be down when the nightblade hits. If you try keeping up a shield stack every few seconds, your fingers will fall off after a long walk. (Because you can't use a horse and keep shields up).

Miats was patched out, it doesn't work.

That leaves RML, but seriously. Even that rarely works because it won't halve viper/believe/widow proc set damage, or the followup fear/incap/sa spam.

The NB's here need to stop overselling their counters. You guys are fine. We're fine. Just play the game. Curse is a hard counter if you're trying to 1vX five Sorcs, I'm sorry but that's balanced just the same as anyone trying to 1vX five nightblades.

RML should perhaps reduce dmg taken for 2s after being stealth attacked, just a suggestion.

Stealth and ganking simply need counters that do not only counter stealth and ganking.
The main issue of rml is that is 0 usability when you´re not ganked and needs to be slotted on both bars to reliably work while engaged in combat.

ManDraKE

Derra wrote: »

Stealth and ganking simply need counters that do not only counter stealth and ganking.
The main issue of rml is that is 0 usability when you´re not ganked and needs to be slotted on both bars to reliably work while engaged in combat.

I'm not tryin to defend ganking, but i can't let this one go away:

- Passive major Prophecy
- Empower
- 1% max magika and magika regen
- Reveal Targets
- Prevent stun and damage reduction from stealth

All in 1 skill

No usability? /facepalm

Izaki

Minalan wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Nellzer wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Glamdring wrote: »

Derra and some more in this thread have experience enough to know that open world/kiteblades in medium armour are only played by a few ppl. Most of the NBs stay in stealth waiting for the 1 kill or if they dont play that way they wear heavy armour. The rest of you in this thread must be really new players or play on Another server than eu where there cant be many magsorcs that know what they are doing.

I can still hold my own against a good sorc, but its harder after homestead. and i need to use alot more los moves and i cant go back and in as much i could Before. What *** me up this patch though is the newbie sorcs in a Group that just spam curse from behind the group and just let the long tiick be there. i cant vigor in cloak, and if i want to hide i know im gonna get revealed and the Groups NBs are gonna start ambush me again. it forces me to choose interactions ALOT more carefully, Always keep my Health above 60-70%. its doable but there really arent any counters to this curse spamming. and it destroys our signature skill. imagine if you had a skill that made BoL or Shields non functional, imagine the whining on here.

This is all in line with zos strategy to make it easier to be a casual player. Magsorcs is clearly the newbie class right now, easy mode deluxe.

And for you saying just slot purge?!?!?! did u start to play yesterday?. u have any idea what that skill costs ? on a stamnb, if u use 1 purge your whole magpool is basically gone.

over and out

You mean, like Shieldbreaker non-functional?
(^_-)

Right, because using a set that is good against ONE build and garbage against everything else is a reasonable solution. Stop talking out of your ass.

Every mag build uses a shield.
It's a good set, minus five piece bonus.
You say sorcs are your problem. There's your solution.
You know nothing. Learn to play.

My god, literally every post you make shows your ignorance of this game. 'It's a good set minus the 5 set piece bonus.' ROFL.

Sorcs aren't a problem, and if they were, that is not a solution outside of a duel. No one uses shields like a sorc, you'd be gimping yourself against every single other magicka build outside of sorc. You're embarrassing yourself.

So, sorcs are fine?

In Pvp, the only difference with sorcs is the 8% destro buff. Any good sorc would refresh curse before this change, so there is absolutely no damage change. I think the 8% buff was unnecessary, but it didn't make sorc OP at all, they were just in a good spot before the change and didn't really need a buff.

Don´t underestimate the 8% from minor vulnerability on concussion. Sorc is the only class having lightning dmg in their rotation. It´s a huge difference in pvp.

It has a ten percent proc chance, which isn't bad but it doesn't last for very long (4 sec). It's more reliable though to use a minor vulnerability poison, which everyone can do and get a 20% chance to apply.

Ocelot9x wrote: »

Glamdring wrote: »

Derra and some more in this thread have experience enough to know that open world/kiteblades in medium armour are only played by a few ppl. Most of the NBs stay in stealth waiting for the 1 kill or if they dont play that way they wear heavy armour. The rest of you in this thread must be really new players or play on Another server than eu where there cant be many magsorcs that know what they are doing.

I can still hold my own against a good sorc, but its harder after homestead. and i need to use alot more los moves and i cant go back and in as much i could Before. What *** me up this patch though is the newbie sorcs in a Group that just spam curse from behind the group and just let the long tiick be there. i cant vigor in cloak, and if i want to hide i know im gonna get revealed and the Groups NBs are gonna start ambush me again. it forces me to choose interactions ALOT more carefully, Always keep my Health above 60-70%. its doable but there really arent any counters to this curse spamming. and it destroys our signature skill. imagine if you had a skill that made BoL or Shields non functional, imagine the whining on here.

This is all in line with zos strategy to make it easier to be a casual player. Magsorcs is clearly the newbie class right now, easy mode deluxe.

And for you saying just slot purge?!?!?! did u start to play yesterday?. u have any idea what that skill costs ? on a stamnb, if u use 1 purge your whole magpool is basically gone.

over and out

Nice post,i agree on everything. I dont play stamblade but yeah,open world they are pretty *** vs the new curse. And no,it's not about the damage,but the fact that after one curse you'll automatically reveal yourself thanks to the second proc. Basically 1 curse negate the only survivability tool of nbs lol

We've been able to do it forever now, did you just notice this?

Vulnerability poison? For 3.8 sec of vulnerability? No thanks.

Just use a shock enchant on your resto bar. 40% chance to proc the concussed effect. Pretty sure concussed lasts 6 seconds not 4. Throw in a charged resto and you can keep perma minor vulnerability as a sorc on a target.

Jawasa

Some sorcs here seem to run out of mana by using shields how is this possible even in non CP with suducer the only way i'm ever running out of mana is if i spam streak or mines and then i'm not drinking tons of pots. What are you Doing to run out of mana so fast?

Izaki

Lord-Otto wrote: »

aLi3nZ wrote: »

lolwut is this nonsense about sorc being tied to sustain sets?

witches brew(stam users jelly) + Astronaunch + Divines Armour pieces=1850 Magika regen

And you are free to use whatever 2 damage sets / monster helm you want.

If you want mad sustain add 1xShadowfen (126 Magika Recovery) 1x Chokthorn(126 Magika Recovery) along with the above

Hm, Witchmother's is lacking a bit damage and health. Atronach deprives you of the very powerful Thief damage. Divines is just NO in PvP.
Yes, you can run two damage sets with this, but the losses outweigh that second set.

Pretty much yeah. I'd rather get a set that gives me sustain than waste my mundus. Especially, a mundus like Thief or Shadow, stats that are much harder to stack with gear.

BuggeX

then pls explain how do you presure a sorc with arround 15k+ shilds that do dmg with infernial and spaming skills that cant be avoided? would you like it if my dots as mdk Bypass your shilds such as you Bypass my wings or block or doge? same is for templar, how is a templar suppost to even dmg sorcs shild if he also lost his cc? dots will never deal enought dmg to burn through shilds


and also saying heal crits half the time is bs, no mdk or temp running with 50%+ crit.

i just say shilds Need a viable counterplay for magicka builds.

and yes i compare doge to shilds, shilds negate all dmg at the cost of maagicka, doge negate all singletarget and cc at the cost of Stamina, just as i compare block to shilds or doge, at the cost of Stamina i half the incoming dmg and be immune to most cc. but to block and doge are Counter skills that ignore the mechanic, such as fear or curse. but there is not a single skill to Counter the shildmechanic

Minalan

BuggeX wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Devilhand wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

LOL gankblades complaining about other classes being OP.

Hmm... Actually if you read carefully I said I odnt like to go with cheesy gank builds. My point is there is no counter atm for that skill as a stamina class, and by the way curse already was pretty much OP, they made it worse.

There is no also no counter from being randomly ganked from stealth as a Magicka Sorc by a Gankblade. I think this is one of ZOSes ways of checks and balances. Gankblades still one shot players with procs stacking btw. Atm from a Sorcs POV. I'm more worried about a random gankblade then another sorc ganking me.

Now that all being said. WHERE IS MAH ANTI RANDOM GANK COUNTER? And far as curse goes it's the only move sorcs have exclusively that can be a pain in rear end other then mines. Now how many does Gankblades have.
- Incap
- Ambush
- Shadow Image
- Lets not even talk about Mass Hysteria(Fear)

In my opinion those skills are way more annoying then curse. Even more so when used from stealth with ani-canceling. Way more powerful then curse or mines.

You know what now thinking about. It's time to put my sorc away and bring out my stamblade. Way more easy to kill on a stamblade then a sorc. That's why many people are forced to wear Heavy Armor in Cyrodiil. Because dying without getting the opportunity to fight back. Is on the Top 10 list of Lamest Things introduced to this world.(Ganking)

Of course Gankblades are going to cry, when they now have a little bit of competition to deal with. The very playstyle promotes getting yourself into a position(gear-wise, and location-wise) to kill your opponent, before they can react and deny them any chance of a fight. Now while I personally dislike playing that way because you know. I like hurling spells at peoples faces and fighting. Not to just hide in the shadows to gank some poor sob, that has no chance. If I want to do that I'd go play Assassin's Creed or Hitman or something like that, much more satisfying. But to each his/her own. I don't talk down on people who do a lot. Unless they are the gankblades that either proc'ed me to death, or group ganked me, and started to tea bag me. Those type of guys will never get my respect.

But hey guys Nerf Sorcs till they are useless again, right? Again people like OP are the reason I have 11 Max Level characters. Cause to me it's threads like these, and the nerf RD ones coming from gankers which are the most laughable. I honestly don't know how ZOS even takes them seriously. But apparently they do when one group of players start spamming them, so oh well.

Anti Gank Counters are:

-Radiant mage light
- Dark prison (morph that you put on yourself)
- Revealing Flair
- Miats Addon
- Shields

-Radiant mage light - (Has very short range, and don't pop players out of stealth if they are ganking at range.)

- Dark prison (morph that you put on yourself) (Defensive Rune is more then likely the only skill that will give you a proactive way of not getting ganked. So good point here.)
-
- Revealing Flair - (short range most gankers are very fast and can out run it. Also it doesn't stop you nor prolong the act of getting ganked, because it's reactive and not proactive.)
-
- Miats Addon - (The fact that someone had to make a addon to help players from getting ganked out of no where instead of the devs, balancing insta-ganks is laughable at best. Even tho more then likely should. I'm not going to count this to your points. Just because of the fact it's a addon and also console users would not have access to it.)

- Shields - (Ugggh... Ok.... So shields do not stop you from getting ganked from the rip anymore. Shields are also reactive and not proactive, meaning if you are relying on shields to prevent you from getting ganked, all I have to say to you is Rest In Pepperonis.

Agreed. Except:

Defensive rune is terrible anti-gank mechanism because good gankers drink an immovable/magicka pot before making a move. Even better gankers use it to proc clever alchemist for the big burst gank.

Shields are no good to prevent ganks because they're going to be down when the nightblade hits. If you try keeping up a shield stack every few seconds, your fingers will fall off after a long walk. (Because you can't use a horse and keep shields up).

Miats was patched out, it doesn't work.

That leaves RML, but seriously. Even that rarely works because it won't halve viper/believe/widow proc set damage, or the followup fear/incap/sa spam.

The NB's here need to stop overselling their counters. You guys are fine. We're fine. Just play the game. Curse is a hard counter if you're trying to 1vX five Sorcs, I'm sorry but that's balanced just the same as anyone trying to 1vX five nightblades.

you guys Need to stop saying sorc is fine, sorce has now a whole bar with unavoidable dmg exept frag. we do not talk about 1vx but 1v1. absolutly no class or build can Counter that skills,

crushing shock cant be reflected,
curse cant be reflected or blocked or doged
fury cant be reflected or blocked or doged
Meteor cant be reflected
lightnign staff cant be reflected or doged (exept la)

lighting can proc Implosion that is unavoidable

left is the frag that can be refleced doged and blocked


all that skills hits pretty hard while sorc can maintain theyr deffence with shilds.

more magicka and spelldmg the harder the skills and shilds, it make it near impossible to win 1v1.
with infernal Guardian you dont have a oppening to sorcs as they spam unavoidable dmg and Keep shilds up, the fight will go on till the other class than sorc run out of ress to heal himself

im fine with skills Counter deffensive skills such as refelct or doge, but shilds do not have any Counter at all exept shildbraker and thats Stamina exclusive. and thats pretty lame to, it would be the same that there is just a single set for magicka that Counter shuffel

so while sorc has a lot of skills that Counter all different deffensive abilitys they have a def ability that doesnt have a single Counter at all. if you can tell me a single valid Option to kill a good sorc im fine

and do not argue with ganks, ganking is a Counter to anything

I stopped reading this semi-literate blubbering nonsense when you said that fury is undodgable. Crushing shock is dodgable and blockable. You apparently don't know enough about game mechanics for your complaints to be taken seriously.

Izaki

Minalan wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Devilhand wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

LOL gankblades complaining about other classes being OP.

Hmm... Actually if you read carefully I said I odnt like to go with cheesy gank builds. My point is there is no counter atm for that skill as a stamina class, and by the way curse already was pretty much OP, they made it worse.

There is no also no counter from being randomly ganked from stealth as a Magicka Sorc by a Gankblade. I think this is one of ZOSes ways of checks and balances. Gankblades still one shot players with procs stacking btw. Atm from a Sorcs POV. I'm more worried about a random gankblade then another sorc ganking me.

Now that all being said. WHERE IS MAH ANTI RANDOM GANK COUNTER? And far as curse goes it's the only move sorcs have exclusively that can be a pain in rear end other then mines. Now how many does Gankblades have.
- Incap
- Ambush
- Shadow Image
- Lets not even talk about Mass Hysteria(Fear)

In my opinion those skills are way more annoying then curse. Even more so when used from stealth with ani-canceling. Way more powerful then curse or mines.

You know what now thinking about. It's time to put my sorc away and bring out my stamblade. Way more easy to kill on a stamblade then a sorc. That's why many people are forced to wear Heavy Armor in Cyrodiil. Because dying without getting the opportunity to fight back. Is on the Top 10 list of Lamest Things introduced to this world.(Ganking)

Of course Gankblades are going to cry, when they now have a little bit of competition to deal with. The very playstyle promotes getting yourself into a position(gear-wise, and location-wise) to kill your opponent, before they can react and deny them any chance of a fight. Now while I personally dislike playing that way because you know. I like hurling spells at peoples faces and fighting. Not to just hide in the shadows to gank some poor sob, that has no chance. If I want to do that I'd go play Assassin's Creed or Hitman or something like that, much more satisfying. But to each his/her own. I don't talk down on people who do a lot. Unless they are the gankblades that either proc'ed me to death, or group ganked me, and started to tea bag me. Those type of guys will never get my respect.

But hey guys Nerf Sorcs till they are useless again, right? Again people like OP are the reason I have 11 Max Level characters. Cause to me it's threads like these, and the nerf RD ones coming from gankers which are the most laughable. I honestly don't know how ZOS even takes them seriously. But apparently they do when one group of players start spamming them, so oh well.

Anti Gank Counters are:

-Radiant mage light
- Dark prison (morph that you put on yourself)
- Revealing Flair
- Miats Addon
- Shields

-Radiant mage light - (Has very short range, and don't pop players out of stealth if they are ganking at range.)

- Dark prison (morph that you put on yourself) (Defensive Rune is more then likely the only skill that will give you a proactive way of not getting ganked. So good point here.)
-
- Revealing Flair - (short range most gankers are very fast and can out run it. Also it doesn't stop you nor prolong the act of getting ganked, because it's reactive and not proactive.)
-
- Miats Addon - (The fact that someone had to make a addon to help players from getting ganked out of no where instead of the devs, balancing insta-ganks is laughable at best. Even tho more then likely should. I'm not going to count this to your points. Just because of the fact it's a addon and also console users would not have access to it.)

- Shields - (Ugggh... Ok.... So shields do not stop you from getting ganked from the rip anymore. Shields are also reactive and not proactive, meaning if you are relying on shields to prevent you from getting ganked, all I have to say to you is Rest In Pepperonis.

Agreed. Except:

Defensive rune is terrible anti-gank mechanism because good gankers drink an immovable/magicka pot before making a move. Even better gankers use it to proc clever alchemist for the big burst gank.

Shields are no good to prevent ganks because they're going to be down when the nightblade hits. If you try keeping up a shield stack every few seconds, your fingers will fall off after a long walk. (Because you can't use a horse and keep shields up).

Miats was patched out, it doesn't work.

That leaves RML, but seriously. Even that rarely works because it won't halve viper/believe/widow proc set damage, or the followup fear/incap/sa spam.

The NB's here need to stop overselling their counters. You guys are fine. We're fine. Just play the game. Curse is a hard counter if you're trying to 1vX five Sorcs, I'm sorry but that's balanced just the same as anyone trying to 1vX five nightblades.

you guys Need to stop saying sorc is fine, sorce has now a whole bar with unavoidable dmg exept frag. we do not talk about 1vx but 1v1. absolutly no class or build can Counter that skills,

crushing shock cant be reflected,
curse cant be reflected or blocked or doged
fury cant be reflected or blocked or doged
Meteor cant be reflected
lightnign staff cant be reflected or doged (exept la)

lighting can proc Implosion that is unavoidable

left is the frag that can be refleced doged and blocked


all that skills hits pretty hard while sorc can maintain theyr deffence with shilds.

more magicka and spelldmg the harder the skills and shilds, it make it near impossible to win 1v1.
with infernal Guardian you dont have a oppening to sorcs as they spam unavoidable dmg and Keep shilds up, the fight will go on till the other class than sorc run out of ress to heal himself

im fine with skills Counter deffensive skills such as refelct or doge, but shilds do not have any Counter at all exept shildbraker and thats Stamina exclusive. and thats pretty lame to, it would be the same that there is just a single set for magicka that Counter shuffel

so while sorc has a lot of skills that Counter all different deffensive abilitys they have a def ability that doesnt have a single Counter at all. if you can tell me a single valid Option to kill a good sorc im fine

and do not argue with ganks, ganking is a Counter to anything

I stopped reading this semi-literate blubbering nonsense when you said that fury is undodgable. Because it is, and you apparently don't know enough about game mechanics for your complaints to be taken seriously.

The initial hit of Fury in dodge able and block able, but the explosion in undodgeable and unblock able...

Minalan

ManDraKE wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Stealth and ganking simply need counters that do not only counter stealth and ganking.
The main issue of rml is that is 0 usability when you´re not ganked and needs to be slotted on both bars to reliably work while engaged in combat.

I'm not tryin to defend ganking, but i can't let this one go away:

- Passive major Prophecy
- Empower
- 1% max magika and magika regen
- Reveal Targets
- Prevent stun and damage reduction from stealth

All in 1 skill

No usability? /facepalm

We get MP from pots.
Empower is cheaper from entropy.
The mage light morph gives 7% resources total, and we need that for any kind of PVE.
Reveals targets in a tiny radius for a very short time.
Doesn't reduce proc set damage or the fear/incap/sa follow up.

Derra

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Devilhand wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

LOL gankblades complaining about other classes being OP.

Hmm... Actually if you read carefully I said I odnt like to go with cheesy gank builds. My point is there is no counter atm for that skill as a stamina class, and by the way curse already was pretty much OP, they made it worse.

There is no also no counter from being randomly ganked from stealth as a Magicka Sorc by a Gankblade. I think this is one of ZOSes ways of checks and balances. Gankblades still one shot players with procs stacking btw. Atm from a Sorcs POV. I'm more worried about a random gankblade then another sorc ganking me.

Now that all being said. WHERE IS MAH ANTI RANDOM GANK COUNTER? And far as curse goes it's the only move sorcs have exclusively that can be a pain in rear end other then mines. Now how many does Gankblades have.
- Incap
- Ambush
- Shadow Image
- Lets not even talk about Mass Hysteria(Fear)

In my opinion those skills are way more annoying then curse. Even more so when used from stealth with ani-canceling. Way more powerful then curse or mines.

You know what now thinking about. It's time to put my sorc away and bring out my stamblade. Way more easy to kill on a stamblade then a sorc. That's why many people are forced to wear Heavy Armor in Cyrodiil. Because dying without getting the opportunity to fight back. Is on the Top 10 list of Lamest Things introduced to this world.(Ganking)

Of course Gankblades are going to cry, when they now have a little bit of competition to deal with. The very playstyle promotes getting yourself into a position(gear-wise, and location-wise) to kill your opponent, before they can react and deny them any chance of a fight. Now while I personally dislike playing that way because you know. I like hurling spells at peoples faces and fighting. Not to just hide in the shadows to gank some poor sob, that has no chance. If I want to do that I'd go play Assassin's Creed or Hitman or something like that, much more satisfying. But to each his/her own. I don't talk down on people who do a lot. Unless they are the gankblades that either proc'ed me to death, or group ganked me, and started to tea bag me. Those type of guys will never get my respect.

But hey guys Nerf Sorcs till they are useless again, right? Again people like OP are the reason I have 11 Max Level characters. Cause to me it's threads like these, and the nerf RD ones coming from gankers which are the most laughable. I honestly don't know how ZOS even takes them seriously. But apparently they do when one group of players start spamming them, so oh well.

Anti Gank Counters are:

-Radiant mage light
- Dark prison (morph that you put on yourself)
- Revealing Flair
- Miats Addon
- Shields

-Radiant mage light - (Has very short range, and don't pop players out of stealth if they are ganking at range.)

- Dark prison (morph that you put on yourself) (Defensive Rune is more then likely the only skill that will give you a proactive way of not getting ganked. So good point here.)
-
- Revealing Flair - (short range most gankers are very fast and can out run it. Also it doesn't stop you nor prolong the act of getting ganked, because it's reactive and not proactive.)
-
- Miats Addon - (The fact that someone had to make a addon to help players from getting ganked out of no where instead of the devs, balancing insta-ganks is laughable at best. Even tho more then likely should. I'm not going to count this to your points. Just because of the fact it's a addon and also console users would not have access to it.)

- Shields - (Ugggh... Ok.... So shields do not stop you from getting ganked from the rip anymore. Shields are also reactive and not proactive, meaning if you are relying on shields to prevent you from getting ganked, all I have to say to you is Rest In Pepperonis.

Agreed. Except:

Defensive rune is terrible anti-gank mechanism because good gankers drink an immovable/magicka pot before making a move. Even better gankers use it to proc clever alchemist for the big burst gank.

Shields are no good to prevent ganks because they're going to be down when the nightblade hits. If you try keeping up a shield stack every few seconds, your fingers will fall off after a long walk. (Because you can't use a horse and keep shields up).

Miats was patched out, it doesn't work.

That leaves RML, but seriously. Even that rarely works because it won't halve viper/believe/widow proc set damage, or the followup fear/incap/sa spam.

The NB's here need to stop overselling their counters. You guys are fine. We're fine. Just play the game. Curse is a hard counter if you're trying to 1vX five Sorcs, I'm sorry but that's balanced just the same as anyone trying to 1vX five nightblades.

you guys Need to stop saying sorc is fine, sorce has now a whole bar with unavoidable dmg exept frag. we do not talk about 1vx but 1v1. absolutly no class or build can Counter that skills,

crushing shock cant be reflected,
curse cant be reflected or blocked or doged
fury cant be reflected or blocked or doged
Meteor cant be reflected
lightnign staff cant be reflected or doged (exept la)

lighting can proc Implosion that is unavoidable

left is the frag that can be refleced doged and blocked


all that skills hits pretty hard while sorc can maintain theyr deffence with shilds.

more magicka and spelldmg the harder the skills and shilds, it make it near impossible to win 1v1.
with infernal Guardian you dont have a oppening to sorcs as they spam unavoidable dmg and Keep shilds up, the fight will go on till the other class than sorc run out of ress to heal himself

im fine with skills Counter deffensive skills such as refelct or doge, but shilds do not have any Counter at all exept shildbraker and thats Stamina exclusive. and thats pretty lame to, it would be the same that there is just a single set for magicka that Counter shuffel

so while sorc has a lot of skills that Counter all different deffensive abilitys they have a def ability that doesnt have a single Counter at all. if you can tell me a single valid Option to kill a good sorc im fine

and do not argue with ganks, ganking is a Counter to anything

I stopped reading this semi-literate blubbering nonsense when you said that fury is undodgable. Because it is, and you apparently don't know enough about game mechanics for your complaints to be taken seriously.

The initial hit of Fury in dodge able and block able, but the explosion in undodgeable and unblock able...

The explosion is 100% blockable but can not be dodged when already applied.

BuggeX

Minalan wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Devilhand wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

LOL gankblades complaining about other classes being OP.

Hmm... Actually if you read carefully I said I odnt like to go with cheesy gank builds. My point is there is no counter atm for that skill as a stamina class, and by the way curse already was pretty much OP, they made it worse.

There is no also no counter from being randomly ganked from stealth as a Magicka Sorc by a Gankblade. I think this is one of ZOSes ways of checks and balances. Gankblades still one shot players with procs stacking btw. Atm from a Sorcs POV. I'm more worried about a random gankblade then another sorc ganking me.

Now that all being said. WHERE IS MAH ANTI RANDOM GANK COUNTER? And far as curse goes it's the only move sorcs have exclusively that can be a pain in rear end other then mines. Now how many does Gankblades have.
- Incap
- Ambush
- Shadow Image
- Lets not even talk about Mass Hysteria(Fear)

In my opinion those skills are way more annoying then curse. Even more so when used from stealth with ani-canceling. Way more powerful then curse or mines.

You know what now thinking about. It's time to put my sorc away and bring out my stamblade. Way more easy to kill on a stamblade then a sorc. That's why many people are forced to wear Heavy Armor in Cyrodiil. Because dying without getting the opportunity to fight back. Is on the Top 10 list of Lamest Things introduced to this world.(Ganking)

Of course Gankblades are going to cry, when they now have a little bit of competition to deal with. The very playstyle promotes getting yourself into a position(gear-wise, and location-wise) to kill your opponent, before they can react and deny them any chance of a fight. Now while I personally dislike playing that way because you know. I like hurling spells at peoples faces and fighting. Not to just hide in the shadows to gank some poor sob, that has no chance. If I want to do that I'd go play Assassin's Creed or Hitman or something like that, much more satisfying. But to each his/her own. I don't talk down on people who do a lot. Unless they are the gankblades that either proc'ed me to death, or group ganked me, and started to tea bag me. Those type of guys will never get my respect.

But hey guys Nerf Sorcs till they are useless again, right? Again people like OP are the reason I have 11 Max Level characters. Cause to me it's threads like these, and the nerf RD ones coming from gankers which are the most laughable. I honestly don't know how ZOS even takes them seriously. But apparently they do when one group of players start spamming them, so oh well.

Anti Gank Counters are:

-Radiant mage light
- Dark prison (morph that you put on yourself)
- Revealing Flair
- Miats Addon
- Shields

-Radiant mage light - (Has very short range, and don't pop players out of stealth if they are ganking at range.)

- Dark prison (morph that you put on yourself) (Defensive Rune is more then likely the only skill that will give you a proactive way of not getting ganked. So good point here.)
-
- Revealing Flair - (short range most gankers are very fast and can out run it. Also it doesn't stop you nor prolong the act of getting ganked, because it's reactive and not proactive.)
-
- Miats Addon - (The fact that someone had to make a addon to help players from getting ganked out of no where instead of the devs, balancing insta-ganks is laughable at best. Even tho more then likely should. I'm not going to count this to your points. Just because of the fact it's a addon and also console users would not have access to it.)

- Shields - (Ugggh... Ok.... So shields do not stop you from getting ganked from the rip anymore. Shields are also reactive and not proactive, meaning if you are relying on shields to prevent you from getting ganked, all I have to say to you is Rest In Pepperonis.

Agreed. Except:

Defensive rune is terrible anti-gank mechanism because good gankers drink an immovable/magicka pot before making a move. Even better gankers use it to proc clever alchemist for the big burst gank.

Shields are no good to prevent ganks because they're going to be down when the nightblade hits. If you try keeping up a shield stack every few seconds, your fingers will fall off after a long walk. (Because you can't use a horse and keep shields up).

Miats was patched out, it doesn't work.

That leaves RML, but seriously. Even that rarely works because it won't halve viper/believe/widow proc set damage, or the followup fear/incap/sa spam.

The NB's here need to stop overselling their counters. You guys are fine. We're fine. Just play the game. Curse is a hard counter if you're trying to 1vX five Sorcs, I'm sorry but that's balanced just the same as anyone trying to 1vX five nightblades.

you guys Need to stop saying sorc is fine, sorce has now a whole bar with unavoidable dmg exept frag. we do not talk about 1vx but 1v1. absolutly no class or build can Counter that skills,

crushing shock cant be reflected,
curse cant be reflected or blocked or doged
fury cant be reflected or blocked or doged
Meteor cant be reflected
lightnign staff cant be reflected or doged (exept la)

lighting can proc Implosion that is unavoidable

left is the frag that can be refleced doged and blocked


all that skills hits pretty hard while sorc can maintain theyr deffence with shilds.

more magicka and spelldmg the harder the skills and shilds, it make it near impossible to win 1v1.
with infernal Guardian you dont have a oppening to sorcs as they spam unavoidable dmg and Keep shilds up, the fight will go on till the other class than sorc run out of ress to heal himself

im fine with skills Counter deffensive skills such as refelct or doge, but shilds do not have any Counter at all exept shildbraker and thats Stamina exclusive. and thats pretty lame to, it would be the same that there is just a single set for magicka that Counter shuffel

so while sorc has a lot of skills that Counter all different deffensive abilitys they have a def ability that doesnt have a single Counter at all. if you can tell me a single valid Option to kill a good sorc im fine

and do not argue with ganks, ganking is a Counter to anything

I stopped reading this semi-literate blubbering nonsense when you said that fury is undodgable. Crushing shock is dodgable and blockable. You apparently don't know enough about game mechanics for your complaints to be taken seriously.

ofc they are i never said they are undogeable or blockable, the Explosion of fury itself is unavoidable, the cast hoever is dogeable and blockable yes

Biro123

BuggeX wrote: »

then pls explain how do you presure a sorc with arround 15k+ shilds that do dmg with infernial and spaming skills that cant be avoided? would you like it if my dots as mdk Bypass your shilds such as you Bypass my wings or block or doge? same is for templar, how is a templar suppost to even dmg sorcs shild if he also lost his cc? dots will never deal enought dmg to burn through shilds


and also saying heal crits half the time is bs, no mdk or temp running with 50%+ crit.

i just say shilds Need a viable counterplay for magicka builds.

and yes i compare doge to shilds, shilds negate all dmg at the cost of maagicka, doge negate all singletarget and cc at the cost of Stamina, just as i compare block to shilds or doge, at the cost of Stamina i half the incoming dmg and be immune to most cc. but to block and doge are Counter skills that ignore the mechanic, such as fear or curse. but there is not a single skill to Counter the shildmechanic

mdk is the class I have most trouble with. stack up your dots - they tear down shields in no time and keep spamming with the CC. Its all the mdk's at the mo that's making me look at my stam and try to increase it or add some sustain to it.

BuggeX

Biro123 wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

then pls explain how do you presure a sorc with arround 15k+ shilds that do dmg with infernial and spaming skills that cant be avoided? would you like it if my dots as mdk Bypass your shilds such as you Bypass my wings or block or doge? same is for templar, how is a templar suppost to even dmg sorcs shild if he also lost his cc? dots will never deal enought dmg to burn through shilds


and also saying heal crits half the time is bs, no mdk or temp running with 50%+ crit.

i just say shilds Need a viable counterplay for magicka builds.

and yes i compare doge to shilds, shilds negate all dmg at the cost of maagicka, doge negate all singletarget and cc at the cost of Stamina, just as i compare block to shilds or doge, at the cost of Stamina i half the incoming dmg and be immune to most cc. but to block and doge are Counter skills that ignore the mechanic, such as fear or curse. but there is not a single skill to Counter the shildmechanic

mdk is the class I have most trouble with. stack up your dots - they tear down shields in no time and keep spamming with the CC. Its all the mdk's at the mo that's making me look at my stam and try to increase it or add some sustain to it.

lets say i have sun set and spellwaver all spelldmg etc etc, my dots wont tick higher as 1k at your shilds, now lets say i have 4 dots, thats 4k dps at your shilds that are 15-20k and thats with full spelldmg / magicka and no sustain.

champians Point can lower the dots 3 times, elementar Defender for less fire dmg, tick skinned for less dot dmg and Bastion to increes your shild. as templar and dk have 3 dots they never will take down shilds, dk has it a Little easyer cuz foz and wipe but still not enought to take the shilds down. without reffering at a lucky skorya/metero Combo and the sorc doesnt react fast enought to cc brake, then you have down the shilds and Need to burst the sorcs remaining life to, and thats in 1-2 secs till sorc ported away and recasted the shilds

ManDraKE

Minalan wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Stealth and ganking simply need counters that do not only counter stealth and ganking.
The main issue of rml is that is 0 usability when you´re not ganked and needs to be slotted on both bars to reliably work while engaged in combat.

I'm not tryin to defend ganking, but i can't let this one go away:

- Passive major Prophecy
- Empower
- 1% max magika and magika regen
- Reveal Targets
- Prevent stun and damage reduction from stealth

All in 1 skill

No usability? /facepalm

We get MP from pots.
Empower is cheaper from entropy.
The mage light morph gives 7% resources total, and we need that for any kind of PVE.
Reveals targets in a tiny radius for a very short time.
Doesn't reduce proc set damage or the fear/incap/sa follow up.

- MP pots on PvP? nope :P You are way better with tripots or inmo pots.
- Many sorcs build don't use entropy, crit surge is better in many situations (plus entropy requires a target)
- We are talking about radiant magelight, ganking and pvp, what the hell PvE have something to do with this?
- So? you want a revel 40mts away for 5 minutes? is to reveal people next to you, no to give you a wallhack.
- It reduce the damage of stealth attack, period. If you get hit with the following attacks, they are not stealth attacks.

As i said, i'm not defending ganking, but Radiant is a GREAT skill, saying that it have "0 usability" is wrong af.

Lord-Otto

Bugge, first of all, NO!
Shields do not negate all damage. Try shielding through five Ambushes aimed at you. Try dodging through five Force Pulses aimed at you. It's completely different. Or, in 1v1, try shielding off roots and stuns. Dodge evades suchlike, shields and healing don't.

Healers have crit. They don't sacrifice a lot to get it. Thief and Major Prophecy are enough already. DK tanks maybe not, but they block more.

I assure you shields fall under pressure. MDKs incapacitate you with roots. Templars might have it hardest, but they are also darn nigh unkillable.

BuggeX

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Bugge, first of all, NO!
Shields do not negate all damage. Try shielding through five Ambushes aimed at you. Try dodging through five Force Pulses aimed at you. It's completely different. Or, in 1v1, try shielding off roots and stuns. Dodge evades suchlike, shields and healing don't.

Healers have crit. They don't sacrifice a lot to get it. Thief and Major Prophecy are enough already. DK tanks maybe not, but they block more.

I assure you shields fall under pressure. MDKs incapacitate you with roots. Templars might have it hardest, but they are also darn nigh unkillable.

do you even read bro? i said 1v1 and i said shilding all dmg and not cc, why the acctuall hell do you come up with 5 ambush or 5 cs? thats the only Argument? lol. ofc healers have crit so have the sorc criting for more dmg, while we cannot crit sorcs shild. as i said, shilds do not have a viable counterplay beside shildbraker and thats a exclusive set for Stamina and just good on bow la spam


and btw, they negate all dmg aslong as they are up

Biro123

BuggeX wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

then pls explain how do you presure a sorc with arround 15k+ shilds that do dmg with infernial and spaming skills that cant be avoided? would you like it if my dots as mdk Bypass your shilds such as you Bypass my wings or block or doge? same is for templar, how is a templar suppost to even dmg sorcs shild if he also lost his cc? dots will never deal enought dmg to burn through shilds


and also saying heal crits half the time is bs, no mdk or temp running with 50%+ crit.

i just say shilds Need a viable counterplay for magicka builds.

and yes i compare doge to shilds, shilds negate all dmg at the cost of maagicka, doge negate all singletarget and cc at the cost of Stamina, just as i compare block to shilds or doge, at the cost of Stamina i half the incoming dmg and be immune to most cc. but to block and doge are Counter skills that ignore the mechanic, such as fear or curse. but there is not a single skill to Counter the shildmechanic

mdk is the class I have most trouble with. stack up your dots - they tear down shields in no time and keep spamming with the CC. Its all the mdk's at the mo that's making me look at my stam and try to increase it or add some sustain to it.

lets say i have sun set and spellwaver all spelldmg etc etc, my dots wont tick higher as 1k at your shilds, now lets say i have 4 dots, thats 4k dps at your shilds that are 15-20k and thats with full spelldmg / magicka and no sustain.

champians Point can lower the dots 3 times, elementar Defender for less fire dmg, tick skinned for less dot dmg and Bastion to increes your shild. as templar and dk have 3 dots they never will take down shilds, dk has it a Little easyer cuz foz and wipe but still not enought to take the shilds down. without reffering at a lucky skorya/metero Combo and the sorc doesnt react fast enought to cc brake, then you have down the shilds and Need to burst the sorcs remaining life to, and thats in 1-2 secs till sorc ported away and recasted the shilds

DK is honestly a class that I don't know at all. I only know that my shields are like paper against some of them.. I don't know how often they tick for or what their duration is, but once the dots are there, and there's a scoria proc or 2 on top of direct damage attacks, shields go down very quickly.. add in some CC - and at the rate the shields drop - a well-timed cc and ulti = GG.
But that's just 1v1. when there are others around and you burn away a sorcs stam - timing or not - its game-over. I've always thought DK's give more to group play than sorcs.

To be fair though on CP - every CP point has a counter. Most sorcs focus bastion and so have very little in ele defender and thick-skinned.. I'm sure you have plenty of cp's spent on increasing your dot and elemental dmg.. Also sorcs generally don't slot a purge - they just don't have the bar-space for it.

Now I'm not denying that its hard to get through sorc's shields - because it is. Its a bad mechanic that is too strong 1v1 but scales very badly for many v many. But you can't blame sorc players for using the tools they are given.

technohic

ManDraKE wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Stealth and ganking simply need counters that do not only counter stealth and ganking.
The main issue of rml is that is 0 usability when you´re not ganked and needs to be slotted on both bars to reliably work while engaged in combat.

I'm not tryin to defend ganking, but i can't let this one go away:

- Passive major Prophecy
- Empower
- 1% max magika and magika regen
- Reveal Targets
- Prevent stun and damage reduction from stealth

All in 1 skill

No usability? /facepalm

We get MP from pots.
Empower is cheaper from entropy.
The mage light morph gives 7% resources total, and we need that for any kind of PVE.
Reveals targets in a tiny radius for a very short time.
Doesn't reduce proc set damage or the fear/incap/sa follow up.

- MP pots on PvP? nope :P You are way better with tripots or inmo pots.
- Many sorcs build don't use entropy, crit surge is better in many situations (plus entropy requires a target)
- We are talking about radiant magelight, ganking and pvp, what the hell PvE have something to do with this?
- So? you want a revel 40mts away for 5 minutes? is to reveal people next to you, no to give you a wallhack.
- It reduce the damage of stealth attack, period. If you get hit with the following attacks, they are not stealth attacks.

As i said, i'm not defending ganking, but Radiant is a GREAT skill, saying that it have "0 usability" is wrong af.

Magelight is pretty sweet but it actually shines IMO for ganking. Doesn't break stealth and gives Empower. Hate to admit I learned about this by trying to track down a ganker, then all the sudden, I just see this pretty little light like then BOOM!

It was all like