WRONG FEEDBACK SOURCE Streamers don't represent most players

[Deleted User] · March 2017

The user and all related content has been deleted.

bowmanz607 · March 2017

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

LOL thread revival. Epic. Let the mass triggering ensue.

Well, you had to bump it to the front page again. Taking the first steps, are we?

https://youtu.be/CgiX53hjAPc

idk · March 2017

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

LOL thread revival. Epic. Let the mass triggering ensue.

Well, you had to bump it to the front page again. Taking the first steps, are we?

He did not bump it

Thesiren · March 2017

Bungie does this as well: They listen to their few noisy Trials Streamers and ignore the rest of the player base. Unfortunately for Bungie, this has resulted in a huge round of nerfs this past month that impacted much of the game negatively, after which there has been a mass exodus from their game. Not only that, but now a lot of Destiny players don't care about the launch of Destiny 2, either; not too smart.

Hopefully Zenimax doesn't make the same mistake here.

StackonClown · March 2017

DigitalShibby wrote: »

I definitely didn't read this entire thread but to me ZOS picked these people because their ESO channels get views... all they are doing is play testing.. then later they will be using those YouTube channels of theirs to create "hype" for morrowind which in turn will drive sales. It's just business people, relax.

Basically, I agree

Rickter wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

@Rickter

Despite the contempt I have for zerg players, they have a place in the game. But theirs isn't the only place. This isn't a 'zerg game' nor is it solely for large scale PvP. It's an open world sandbox and every play style should have a place. You're honestly looking too far into things and making some sweeping generalizations, just like the tin foil hat author of this thread. Fulfillment is a subjective thing, but I promise you most small scalers promote that play style not for 'street cred' but because it is intense, fun, and challenging. Whereas as running around spamming aoes while being carried by numbers is not.

What exactly are you afraid of? That they are gonna make zerging harder? lmao. Rest assured, no mechanical advantage will ever be more powerful than the sheer force of numbers.

no one was saying that ALL playstyles should not be accommodated. thats not the issue. the issue is that the small scale proponents are insisting that theirs is the best way, and unfortunately they do have the ear of the developers. have you heard of hte Council of PVPers? thats actually a thing. its real. Devs play every day. they are in normal communities (well they go for the ones they heard of) and they are influenced by the players they surround themselves with. @ZOS_RichLambert runs with some really elite PVE guilds, and I fear their influence is negative for him. why? because the 1% does not represent the 99%.

Ok - Lets Go! Epic revivial of thread

To start with a pre-emptive counter rebuttal..

WHY SO SALTY BRO? YOU SO JELLY! - ok thats out of the way.

This has to be some kind of joke right? "Devs play every day. they are in normal communities (well they go for the ones they heard of) and they are influenced by the players they surround themselves with"

Are you kidding me?

So all the botting, all the exploiting in PVP/PVE, these devs don't notice or ignore ??
Yet the 'lowly' players are wasting thousands of hours reporting all this muppetry whilst the DEVs try to become accepted as another nerd-elite ??

Did the DEVs cook up the NO-CP test whilst running in a zerg with their little friends?

This is disdain and disinterest from the DEVs if true.

i.e. Dev-player:

"I'd rather just be accepted as an Elite by the elitist brats than take a genuine interest in the biggest issues plaguing the game..."

"Please please <insert elitist ego name here>, be my friend and accept me as one of you"

"Hey! Maybe all you elitists can come and visit - you are already my friends!"

This explains how the particpants were chosen!..
I was wondering about this and Gina never answered this when asked previously.

Thats why people were plucked out - and they always have a 'friend' who vouches for them saying 'yea - hes an amazing theory-crafter even though noone has heard of him.. i know him.. hes a nice guy.. hes my friend... awwww"

What a joke!

Sneaky-Snurr · March 2017

Why can't we all just have an ore-ghee and make baby Dunmers and Argonians or maybe crossbreeds aye?

Way to necro this thread guys wtf.
But since this thread is on the front page of the section so why not? I couldn't even bother siding with anyone.
Every side has their own motive to accomplish, whether or not the OP has something against the streamers, I say to hell with it and let himself deal with it. Same goes to streamers. Got motive(s)? Yeah, to hell with them.

Again, I couldn't care less what both sides think and neither should you. Point is, whatever conclusions anybody draw won't make a difference to any immediate or future outcome. The moment this thread was made is the same time everyone is beating a dead llama. (I like horses so don't beat it even if it's dead)

Everyone can think for themselves (I hope), use that capacity and do the right thing.

xboxone1Q · March 2017

Never watched a ZOS stream or watched no life streamers on here. Why I DONT CARE about them, they are not good at eso they just play to much with meta builds I bet they have.

StackonClown · March 2017

Another quote from earlier : "@ZOS_RichLambert runs with some really elite PVE guilds"

Again this is some kind of joke right?

If true, and I can't know if it is or not, this reinforces that the elitism is coming in parts from the devs themselves and is a conflict of interest in some way.

Elitist Devs would favour and side with elitist players because 'they are my friends', and who cares about the lowly commoner 'L2P' rest of the community.

Since DEVs think like elitists, then they cater to them, meet up with them and raise their eyebrows at the rest of the community as 'bad's' who are there to pay subs so the elites can impress each other..

And "who cares about bots at dolmens - us elites don't visit such pathetic locations"... so leave the bots there and just put up with it while we are busy doing VMOL hard mode.

Turelus · March 2017

ZOS has very little professionalism in regards to their friendships and interactions with players.

This isn't a normal MMO or a normal MMO company. So accept that, enjoy the game and relax.

Or start making long, constructive, well thought out posts about the areas of gameplay you care about and how ZOS can improve.

StackonClown · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

ZOS has very little professionalism in regards to their friendships and interactions with players.

This isn't a normal MMO or a normal MMO company. So accept that, enjoy the game and relax.

Or start making long, constructive, well thought out posts about the areas of gameplay you care about and how ZOS can improve.

I already have 'started' long ago.

Here's a *short*, constructive, well thought out post about an area of gameplay I care about and how ZOS can improve :

[constructive post]
Get rid of the bots! - instead of Devs running dungeons they should examine how much botting is going on.... Get rid of the structures around the dolmens where the bots 'camp'.. develop better bot train detection.
[/constructive post]

Feel free to contribute yourself.

Turelus · March 2017

StackonClown wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

ZOS has very little professionalism in regards to their friendships and interactions with players.

This isn't a normal MMO or a normal MMO company. So accept that, enjoy the game and relax.

Or start making long, constructive, well thought out posts about the areas of gameplay you care about and how ZOS can improve.

I already have 'started' long ago.

Here's a *short*, constructive, well thought out post about an area of gameplay I care about and how ZOS can improve :

[constructive post]
Get rid of the bots! - instead of Devs running dungeons they should examine how much botting is going on.... Get rid of the structures around the dolmens where the bots 'camp'.. develop better bot train detection.
[/constructive post]

Feel free to contribute yourself.

Okay, whatever you do for your job, when you get home tonight don't log into ESO and instead do more of that job.

The devs are not sat in the office during work hours running vMoL with their player chums, if they're doing content with players (who may not be fully aware who they are still) then it will be in their off work hours.

Also developers are not gamemasters, it falls on the secuirty/gm team to sort out botting within the game, sadly ZOS seems to outsource this like other big MMO companies which means they have no one in their office actually looking into the issues.

Rickter · March 2017

StackonClown wrote: »

Another quote from earlier : "@ZOS_RichLambert runs with some really elite PVE guilds"

Again this is some kind of joke right?

This is not a joke. i know the name of the community but im not going to post it here.

idk · March 2017

Thesiren wrote: »

Bungie does this as well: They listen to their few noisy Trials Streamers and ignore the rest of the player base. Unfortunately for Bungie, this has resulted in a huge round of nerfs this past month that impacted much of the game negatively, after which there has been a mass exodus from their game. Not only that, but now a lot of Destiny players don't care about the launch of Destiny 2, either; not too smart.

Hopefully Zenimax doesn't make the same mistake here.

Fortunately for us Zos does not ignore the various groups of the player base.

StackonClown · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

Okay, whatever you do for your job, when you get home tonight don't log into ESO and instead do more of that job.

The devs are not sat in the office during work hours running vMoL with their player chums, if they're doing content with players (who may not be fully aware who they are still) then it will be in their off work hours.

Also developers are not gamemasters, it falls on the secuirty/gm team to sort out botting within the game, sadly ZOS seems to outsource this like other big MMO companies which means they have no one in their office actually looking into the issues.

What i do for a job is not your concern, dont give orders as if you are some self appointed authority in these forums.
How do you know what the devs do in office or off work hours? gimme a break

I can't see why you are acting like some ZOS spokesperson...

Riga_Mortis · March 2017

Some of the streamers that attended have sinced moved onto For Honor as their main game, mustve been an awesome feedback session indeed.

Turelus · March 2017

StackonClown wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Okay, whatever you do for your job, when you get home tonight don't log into ESO and instead do more of that job.

The devs are not sat in the office during work hours running vMoL with their player chums, if they're doing content with players (who may not be fully aware who they are still) then it will be in their off work hours.

Also developers are not gamemasters, it falls on the secuirty/gm team to sort out botting within the game, sadly ZOS seems to outsource this like other big MMO companies which means they have no one in their office actually looking into the issues.

What i do for a job is not your concern, dont give orders as if you are some self appointed authority in these forums.
How do you know what the devs do in office or off work hours? gimme a break

I can't see why you are acting like some ZOS spokesperson...

I'm not concerned what you do for a job nor did I ask. I was only making a comparison of what you're asking which would relate to yourself.

I am not aware of what the developers do in hours at ZOS, however I very much doubt Zenimax Media is going to be paying developers and staff to log in and play their personal accounts all day rather than working on the game.
Rich, Brian and others who have spoken about their personal accounts have normally stated that they're playing them in the evening.

As for acting like a spokesperson for ZOS I don't see myself doing that either. I was pointing out that in most MMO development it's not the developers who deal with botting but a security/GM team.
If you want me to act like a ZOS spokesperson I could point out that Jessica has already said they're looking at the issues of bots camping Dolmens as you requested, she posted this in thread about the issue.

As I said in a previous post ZOS breaks a lot of the rules which we have come to take as a standard in the industry, one of which is playing along side other players who may (not confirmed to my knowledge) know the names of developer accounts.
Even with this I very much doubt these players are given any special treatment which would undermine the fairness of the game.

Zvorgin · March 2017

xboxone1Q wrote: »

Never watched a ZOS stream or watched no life streamers on here. Why I DONT CARE about them, they are not good at eso they just play to much with meta builds I bet they have.

Some streamers or YouTube content creators actually put out really informative content that otherwise isn't available for ESO. I appreciate being able to maximize my time playing because they figure out and pass on knowledge. You don't have to be so derogatory, there is some good content out there that isn't simply "I play more so I'm better"

Turelus · March 2017

Riga_Mortis wrote: »

Some of the streamers that attended have sinced moved onto For Honor as their main game, mustve been an awesome feedback session indeed.

Even if they are not fully active within the game right now they were still players who displayed an open understanding to the games systems and issues. If they're not only streaming ESO then that just goes to show ZOS were looking for understanding than fame for the game.

I am with others on not understanding the outrage of this, they took a wide selection of players from various aspects of the game and took feedback from them all.
People are so focused on their rage at three or four big names they're completely ignoring the others who were/are relatively unknown or have decided not to open themselves up to the community.

TequilaFire · March 2017

Wonder when the non disclosure is up, would be interested in hearing some real feedback from those that went to ZOS not all this speculation from forum users.

Rouven · March 2017

TequilaFire wrote: »

Wonder when the non disclosure is up, would be interested in hearing some real feedback from those that went to ZOS not all this speculation from forum users.

That would be nice.

ADarklore · March 2017

Perhaps the reason some of these Streamers are taking a break from the game is because Morrowind will not be released for several more months and as of right now the ONLY thing new added to the game was Homestead, which I doubt is something many Streamers have any interested in streaming. Also, with the non-disclosure, they cannot even comment about it until ZOS gives the OK... I'm betting when Morrowind goes to PTS, you'll see a LOT more Streamers returning.

Turelus · March 2017

ADarklore wrote: »

Perhaps the reason some of these Streamers are taking a break from the game is because Morrowind will not be released for several more months and as of right now the ONLY thing new added to the game was Homestead, which I doubt is something many Streamers have any interested in streaming. Also, with the non-disclosure, they cannot even comment about it until ZOS gives the OK... I'm betting when Morrowind goes to PTS, you'll see a LOT more Streamers returning.

You mean watching Fengrush farm nodes for six hours isn't interesting viewing? Damn.

Asmael · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Perhaps the reason some of these Streamers are taking a break from the game is because Morrowind will not be released for several more months and as of right now the ONLY thing new added to the game was Homestead, which I doubt is something many Streamers have any interested in streaming. Also, with the non-disclosure, they cannot even comment about it until ZOS gives the OK... I'm betting when Morrowind goes to PTS, you'll see a LOT more Streamers returning.

You mean watching Fengrush farm nodes for six hours isn't interesting viewing? Damn.

Depends on the rant that comes with it

Turelus · March 2017

Asmael wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Perhaps the reason some of these Streamers are taking a break from the game is because Morrowind will not be released for several more months and as of right now the ONLY thing new added to the game was Homestead, which I doubt is something many Streamers have any interested in streaming. Also, with the non-disclosure, they cannot even comment about it until ZOS gives the OK... I'm betting when Morrowind goes to PTS, you'll see a LOT more Streamers returning.

You mean watching Fengrush farm nodes for six hours isn't interesting viewing? Damn.

Depends on the rant that comes with it

I'll be honest, I've never actually watched his streams/rants. I rarely watch streamers because I personally hate the way most live streams go.

I tried watching Sypher's first stream after he got back from this and after the first 10-15mins of just being people subbing/resubbing and him saying thanks over and over I remembered why I get bored.

I am sure there are streamers out there who I would enjoy though, and I'm sure the bigger ones are great people I just hate watching streams where it's constant pandering to chat and subs. I want someone playing the game, talking some interesting talk about it.

*darkcloaks away before people attack him*

Jitterbug · March 2017

Rickter wrote: »

next time i'd like to know how and what i should comment on on the forums, i'll come ask you guys.

the fact that you three seem to think you can tell me what to post and where to post is a little disturbing. its like, entitlement. . .

please don't write a comment like that on these forums

ManwithBeard9 · March 2017

Riga_Mortis wrote: »

Some of the streamers that attended have sinced moved onto For Honor as their main game, mustve been an awesome feedback session indeed.

Partnered streamers have to follow the hype train. If they want money, they have to stay relevant. I don't see For Honor as having a large enough base for certain streamers to dip ESO add their bread and butter for making money. Especially when you can charge a couple hundred dollars to help people "git gud"

willlienellson · March 2017

Turelus wrote: »

ZOS has very little professionalism in regards to their friendships and interactions with players.

This isn't a normal MMO or a normal MMO company. So accept that, enjoy the game and relax.

Or start making long, constructive, well thought out posts about the areas of gameplay you care about and how ZOS can improve.

The fact that those posts produce so little change or even response is a large part of the frustration that inspired this thread originally.

If they had a more responsive relationship with their average players....if they actually listened to the feedback of those average players, then the little Baltimore Sleepover wouldn't be as much of a problem because it would represent a fraction of our constructive communication with Zos instead of the bulk of it. But when they roundly ignore mountains of feedback and broad consensus, then events like that which took place really present a problem.

Consider this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/313666/11-obvious-flaws-and-11-easy-fixes-housing/p1

52 Insightful, 113 Agree, 45 Awesome.....and almost no arguments within the thread. It represented broad consensus on the PTS and was posted over 30 days before the end of the PTS.

It never even got a token Zos reply.

So it is in the context of constructive threads with broad consensus like that being completely ignored that having these special events with a small minority of elite gamer celebrities is especially irritating.

Turelus · March 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

ZOS has very little professionalism in regards to their friendships and interactions with players.

This isn't a normal MMO or a normal MMO company. So accept that, enjoy the game and relax.

Or start making long, constructive, well thought out posts about the areas of gameplay you care about and how ZOS can improve.

The fact that those posts produce so little change or even response is a large part of the frustration that inspired this thread originally.

If they had a more responsive relationship with their average players....if they actually listened to the feedback of those average players, then the little Baltimore Sleepover wouldn't be as much of a problem because it would represent a fraction of our constructive communication with Zos instead of the bulk of it. But when they roundly ignore mountains of feedback and broad consensus, then events like that which took place really present a problem.

Consider this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/313666/11-obvious-flaws-and-11-easy-fixes-housing/p1

52 Insightful, 113 Agree, 45 Awesome.....and almost no arguments within the thread. It represented broad consensus on the PTS and was posted over 30 days before the end of the PTS.

It never even got a token Zos reply.

So it is in the context of constructive threads with broad consensus like that being completely ignored that having these special events with a small minority of elite gamer celebrities is especially irritating.

Do we know they were only elite gamer celebs? We only know a few of the people invited.

Also checking your thread and maybe they have taken note of it, but they might not need to fly you out to their studios for simple fixes you've put forward which they may or may not want to do.
Also just because a bunch of forums players agree with you doesn't mean that's the direction ZOS wants to go with something.

They were looking for a very specific testing pool for a set number of in development features before an open roundtable at the end. They've said they took names from across all areas of the game and from many different countries. Some of whom didn't want to be named.

idk · March 2017

willlienellson wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

ZOS has very little professionalism in regards to their friendships and interactions with players.

This isn't a normal MMO or a normal MMO company. So accept that, enjoy the game and relax.

Or start making long, constructive, well thought out posts about the areas of gameplay you care about and how ZOS can improve.

The fact that those posts produce so little change or even response is a large part of the frustration that inspired this thread originally.

If they had a more responsive relationship with their average players....if they actually listened to the feedback of those average players, then the little Baltimore Sleepover wouldn't be as much of a problem because it would represent a fraction of our constructive communication with Zos instead of the bulk of it. But when they roundly ignore mountains of feedback and broad consensus, then events like that which took place really present a problem.

Consider this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/313666/11-obvious-flaws-and-11-easy-fixes-housing/p1

52 Insightful, 113 Agree, 45 Awesome.....and almost no arguments within the thread. It represented broad consensus on the PTS and was posted over 30 days before the end of the PTS.

It never even got a token Zos reply.

So it is in the context of constructive threads with broad consensus like that being completely ignored that having these special events with a small minority of elite gamer celebrities is especially irritating.

@Turelus

No. Zos used theorycrafters and some happened to be streamers. Theorycrafters understand the workings of the game better than most. Certainly better than myself and that's what is needed in early developement.

As for comments others have made concerning who Zos listens to:

Zos has groups of all types of players that they keep communication with. PvE to PvP from more hard core in both groups to very casual.

At that, not all suggestions are fit well with the game. Others are just really bad like having played made content (comes up from time to time).

In the end, it seems OP is more upset Zos didn't accept his ideas. That's is clear since it's his thread from PTS he's linked and seems to suggest that since Zos did not immediately accept his ideas that Zos doesn't listen to anyone other than streamers. Not the case though.

Just because Zos didn't immediately accept any of your ideas doesn't mean they will never. It just wasn't needed for launch of the update. A could of the ideas he posted in that PTS thread are worthy of consideration though not all of them.

willlienellson · March 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO

Why do you quote me, to give me a notification, and then talk to someone else about me referencing me in the 3rd person? Nobody does this but you. You continue to be one of the most obnoxious trolls I've ever encountered.

You're like a method actor troll. You're the Daniel Day Lewis of trolls. It's so obscure, so obtuse, and so completely free of any meta acknowledgement. At least I hope you're trolling, because the alternative is sad.

I had you ignored for the longest time, but I gave up. Because almost every day, multiple times a day, I get notifications of you trolling my posts and threads. FML