WRONG FEEDBACK SOURCE Streamers don't represent most players

Balamoor

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

They literally invited the guy who was saying that Stamina Sorcerers were under powered and enough wasn't done to address the issues a week before they patched them into overpowered.

This is what a lack of objectivity brings... and being very few of us can be objective (if any at all), all they have is data and that's a better route than listening to people that are biased.

Painting everyone with a broad brush, pretty much makes you biased against everyone else. The point is moot though, you have your opinion I have mine, I base my opinion on more decades than I wish to share of being a computer gamer, and a couple of decades as a paid consultant to developers. It was said earlier that all of this wouldn't be necessary if ZoS just used the feedback on the PST, I hope that if Matt is reading this thread whether that statement is true or not: it is the perception currently and that really needs to change and it's up to them to foster that change.

I personally believe they can.

Calboy

This is my favourite thread/ topic of all time. I can just picture the WoW guy from south Park every time someone gets upset they weren't invited.

Balamoor

Calboy wrote: »

This is my favourite thread/ topic of all time. I can just picture the WoW guy from south Park every time someone gets upset they weren't invited.

lol I don't think anyone is upset it wasn't them ( God knows I'm not aside from the odd con if I travel it isn't game related) I know a couple folks on this forums who would be excellent choices to attend something like this and neither one of them has even posted on this thread.

DragonBound

Balamoor wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

They literally invited the guy who was saying that Stamina Sorcerers were under powered and enough wasn't done to address the issues a week before they patched them into overpowered.

This is what a lack of objectivity brings... and being very few of us can be objective (if any at all), all they have is data and that's a better route than listening to people that are biased.

Painting everyone with a broad brush, pretty much makes you biased against everyone else. The point is moot though, you have your opinion I have mine, I base my opinion on more decades than I wish to share of being a computer gamer, and a couple of decades as a paid consultant to developers. It was said earlier that all of this wouldn't be necessary if ZoS just used the feedback on the PST, I hope that if Matt is reading this thread whether that statement is true or not: it is the perception currently and that really needs to change and it's up to them to foster that change.

I personally believe they can.

I do not see how that is painting everyone with a broad brush he is simply talking about the bias of streamers and how they do not represent the community period, as to if its actually true that they somehow are representing the community we do not know, but this is what the topic is about.

cheemers

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

cheemers wrote: »

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that PC is no more than a third of the total population, if that.

Apparently it does.

Just because there are three platforms to access the game it does NOT mean that players are evenly split among those three platforms.

PC is the traditional home of MMORPGs and though huge advances in making MMORPGS workable on console have been made in recent years I very much doubt that either console version has as many players as PC.

All The Best

And I'm still fairly confident that the consoles have larger and quicker growing populations than PC, based on anecdotal multi-platform players' reports - even deltia in one of his recent videos mentioned how much more lively PS4 EU is compared to his normal PC NA. I'm also more inclined to lend credence to those players who have actually played on multiple platforms rather than simply deducing that "PC is the traditional home of MMORPGs therefore the population is bigger there". But until Zenimax actually releases player count stats, which I don't expect will be any time soon, we may as well keep chucking rebuttals at each other ad infinitum.

cheemers

Also, I'm actually quite impressed that such a poorly written and 'green monster' post has resulted in some interesting discussion from both sides, despite willie's repeated efforts to derail it with memes and bad logic.

Again, I'm more than happy for sypher deltia alcast gilliam etc to represent me and the wider playerbase in whatever behind-closed-doors testint is going on. It makes me more confident and more excited to look forward to whatever balance patch / update results from this. It's hilarious that when ZoS reaches out for player interaction and input, the resident community bad eggs go up in arms.

rfennell_ESO

Balamoor wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

They literally invited the guy who was saying that Stamina Sorcerers were under powered and enough wasn't done to address the issues a week before they patched them into overpowered.

This is what a lack of objectivity brings... and being very few of us can be objective (if any at all), all they have is data and that's a better route than listening to people that are biased.

Painting everyone with a broad brush, pretty much makes you biased against everyone else. The point is moot though, you have your opinion I have mine, I base my opinion on more decades than I wish to share of being a computer gamer, and a couple of decades as a paid consultant to developers. It was said earlier that all of this wouldn't be necessary if ZoS just used the feedback on the PST, I hope that if Matt is reading this thread whether that statement is true or not: it is the perception currently and that really needs to change and it's up to them to foster that change.

I personally believe they can.

Ever been on the pts?

It's the usual suspects testing to see what's broken so they can gear up and cheese it on live.

I don't think everyone is biased, but bias is hard to get over. Everyone likes their class and their faction and wants more for them.

Balanced servers are pretty good pvp.. win or lose. Unbalanced ones are bad if you aren't the one outnumbering everyone.

I'd bet at least half the "streamers" that were invited were DC who don't currently give two craps about balance and that's being conservative.

tist

It's not balanced around the top players you dumby. If it were that case we would have no proc sets and damage reverted back so players with skill can 1vX the world again.

bowmanz607

willlienellson wrote: »

ZOS Focuses way too much on the feedback of elite "celebrity" gamers while they roundly ignore player consensus and feedback on the forums as a matter of course. It's a problem.
Original Post Below:
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Apparently, right now, a select elite of ESO youtubers like Sypher and Deltia, etc are meeting in person with Zenimax after being invited to the headquarters.

While these youtubers provide a service with their content, they hardly represent the ESO player base neither formally nor informally. They most often represent each other. They represent a micro-industry that operates along side ESO. If anything in-game, they represent a small minority of elite guilds that don't experience ESO like the rest of us and are not good representatives.

Please allow me to explain and provide examples.

PvP: I'm not suggesting any of the specific youtubers or "celebrity players" cheat (although some do and have been banned for it), but they also don't experience playing against cheating, or even against OP players, in the same way. Members of this class of ESO players avoid combat with each other. Many of the known cheaters in this game belong to the same guilds as these elite celebrity ESO players. That doesn't mean the celebrity youtubers are cheating, but it usually means the cheaters don't fight against them. This results in this group having an unrealistically casual viewpoint on cheating as something more benign than it is.

Exploits/Secrets: And exploiting game glitches is the cousin of cheating. Things that aren't working as intended, but are unlikely to get you banned, are passed around as open-secrets within the group and become staples of builds, but are not shared publicly because they don't want them fixed.

Here are two examples of fixed exploits that people weren't getting banned for, that I think I can provide since they no longer work.

1) You could double enchant Flanking Set jewelry with a total of 6 jewelry glyphs instead of 3.
2) You could glitch out Hist Bark set to give a dodge bonus even after you took the set off.

So while you were making the hard choices about how to enchant your jewelry, some players were not. When you were spending 3000 stamina to cast Shuffle, or wearing 5 pieces of Hist Bark, others were dodging with neither.

I'm not accusing anyone of doing these things, but I know the people who did do these things are embedded within that small community. So, at it's most benign, this colors the feedback and impressions of the players in that community which are passed on to Zos as apparently about the only feedback they are actually interested in.

Powercreep: Even if none of the youtube celebrity player cheat, or exploit, or take advantage of tricks....the higher ceiling of performance that is enjoyed on average in these communities is exacerbating the power creep problem in this game. Members of this sector of the community are always the first to say, "This game offers me no challenge. VMA is too easy. This is too easy. That is too easy".

Balancing: Their opinion of balance rarely reflects the community because they rarely face players utilizing abilities to their maximum effectiveness due to the fact that players within this class avoid fighting each other. This is the only game I've ever played where friends cannot play against each other. I've had several of the people I consider members of this niche group actually tell me point blank, "Friends don't kill each other in PvP. I'll give you a pass and you give me a pass. Stop fighting against me or I'm taking you off friends list".

Instead of two great players with great builds fighting each other and learning that certain abilities are indeed out of balance, they pass by each other, high-fiving one another as they farm the pugs from each others alliances and convince themselves that the game is perfectly balanced but THEY are individually "Gods of PvP".
These players don't have experiences in the game that would allow them to adequately represent the larger player base.

The resources were used to have this elite youtube gathering session at Zenimax would have been better spent reading the forums, selecting a few issues with broad community consensus, and then having an internal meeting on how to best address those concerns. But that's too much to hope for.

Yes, I'm painting with a broad brush. There are exceptions to every rule and I'm not trying to disparage anyone specifically. I don't blame anyone for accepting the invitation. This is a rebuke of how Zos operates.

I subscribe to Deltia's channel, I like his content, and his personality. But I don't like him as a representative of ESO players.

If you like their videos, that's fine. If you run their builds, that's great. If you think I'm full of crap, that's okay. And Zos can invite whoever they want on a sleepover.
But, if you've ever wondered why this game is balanced around the top 1% of players and the roleplayers being bought off with mount reskins with everyone in the middle ignored, THIS IS WHY.

[Edit to remove mention of moderator actions and political references]

hahahahahahaha

really. do you watch many of these streamers? Many things they suggest and want go unchanged. This is why many of them left.

Do you play this game? Have you played since launch? This game is casual friendly. It has leaned more and more casual with more and more i win buttons since launch. Hardly the direction these streamers want to go.

it is quite clear that you dont watch many of these streamers and dont know what they want or how they have suggested implementation and their basis for the suggestions etc. It is painfully obvious your lack of knowledge on their "platforms" so to speak.

additionally, if you watched their streams you would see that many people agree with their position. Not everyone. not most. but a solid chunk of people.

For you to think zenimax only looks at these players is illogical and laughable. You would know that if you watched thier streams and see the state of the game.

Ofcourse these players were asked to come test the game. First, many of them make a living off the game. This means they have the time and resources to devote to going to baltimore to test the game and the drive to do so. Second, you dont want just casual players testing the system. for battle grounds you want true pvp players to play and test it. You want them to test the new class and see how it plays. You want them to push the game to its limits. Same goes for pve content. You dont want just casuals running around. they wont find the bugs and exploits experienced p[layers will. They also wont truly test the numbers and mechanics. not to mention, many of these players were in alpha testing and/or beta testing. PLayers that have been chosen before to do the same thing they are doing now.

bottom line OP...your just hating cause you were not invited. get over it.

Dr.NRG

So what lol! Should ZOS invite you instead?? lmao. The streamers know the game very well and can afterwards share their feeling about ZOS and this event in their streams. Its nice of ZOS inviting them over and you should be happy about it instead of whining. Also you are missing the point why they are invited in the first place which is to test new stuff and not to talk about balcance chnages or whatsoever. So there is no community to represent. Zos picked them cause they know what they are doing and because they can tell us then how their experiences over there were. ZOS has been listing to the community allot latly and thats of forum snd not from just streamer imput.
Dont be jealous, dont complain and be happy for the guys who got invited!!!!

ninjaguyman

I agree that there may truth in that these top tier players may not exactly represent the skill of most of the player base, but I really don't understand why they wouldn't be good candidates to test for zos. Or how else zos would bring in players who are knowledgeable of the game to test out this new content. Would they just randomly pluck some noobs from the playerbase and invite them to test new content and expect them to be knowledgeable enough about the game to provide meaningful feedback?

By having an audience on twitch/youtube zos can easily see that they put tons of hours in the game, and have a pretty good understanding of game mechanics as well as having a platform through which to tell the community about what went down in their testings(after NDA drops of course)

That is not to say that invited testers MUST be some well known player to the community( ie has to stream or create youtube content about eso). I would just hope that they are adequately skilled/knowledgeable about the game. In fact it would have been great if even more people were invited to this round of testing( Well, idk how many people were invited in the first place). But if the players aren't known atleast to a certain extent by the community somehow, how would zos have known about them?

willlienellson

bowmanz607 wrote: »

snip

I can't even begin to reply to you in detail without breaking the rules, because you're post was so full of just baiting nonsense and ridiculous rhetorical question one after another.

You wrote that many people agree with their positions. That's fair. But many people also agree with mine. Go check the OP and look at the agrees at the bottom. Then look at the actual number of people attacking me in this thread. A few of them are posting dozens of times. One guy posted like 6 snarky posts (like yours) in a single page.

So, I don't think anyone doubts that the streamers have supporters. But if you think I'm some lone guy that is "just jelly", you need to go look at the numbers on the bottom of that OP and get some perspective.

But I'm not jealous, and I don't really understand who over the age of 15 would be jealous of a professional video gamer.lol

I wrote this last time I took notice of someone claiming jealousy was the motivation behind my post, so I'll post it again now.

"I want my friends, good players, to stop leaving the game because it is always moving in inexplicable directions by a company that seems completely ALOOF to feedback while the game becomes more and more synonymous with these celebrity players that are surrounded by, if not themselves, the most cancerous toxic members of the game."

You disagree with me? That's fine, but when people dismiss a feeling that well over a hundred people seem to agree with as "you be hatin cause you so jelly bro, lulz" you seem like.........ahh heck I better stop. Rules and stuff.

Laggus

Pretty sure it's all simply marketing and optics.

willlienellson

Laggus wrote: »

Pretty sure it's all simply marketing and optics.

Which makes no sense to me at all. All these dedicated ESO youtube channels would be talking about the same things whether they got invited for special feedback or not

I even watched Sypher's video for the first time and he was like, "I'm testing super secret things I can't talk about".

That is hardly amazing "marketing and optics".

If this were about marketing......I think we'd be getting......wait for it...marketing.

Instead you've got (of the couple min I watched) Sypher saying he cannot say what they're testing and then asking his subscribers to let him know what issues and feedback he should give.
If this is marketing, this is failed marketing.

Derra

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Balamoor wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

They literally invited the guy who was saying that Stamina Sorcerers were under powered and enough wasn't done to address the issues a week before they patched them into overpowered.

This is what a lack of objectivity brings... and being very few of us can be objective (if any at all), all they have is data and that's a better route than listening to people that are biased.

Painting everyone with a broad brush, pretty much makes you biased against everyone else. The point is moot though, you have your opinion I have mine, I base my opinion on more decades than I wish to share of being a computer gamer, and a couple of decades as a paid consultant to developers. It was said earlier that all of this wouldn't be necessary if ZoS just used the feedback on the PST, I hope that if Matt is reading this thread whether that statement is true or not: it is the perception currently and that really needs to change and it's up to them to foster that change.

I personally believe they can.

Ever been on the pts?

It's the usual suspects testing to see what's broken so they can gear up and cheese it on live.

I don't think everyone is biased, but bias is hard to get over. Everyone likes their class and their faction and wants more for them.

Balanced servers are pretty good pvp.. win or lose. Unbalanced ones are bad if you aren't the one outnumbering everyone.

I'd bet at least half the "streamers" that were invited were DC who don't currently give two craps about balance and that's being conservative.

It´s not like the people test and bugreport and make topic about whats broken on pts.
IT`S ENTIRELY ZOS FAULT THAT EVERY FREAKING BUG FOUND ON PTS MAKES IT LIVE.


Also can you give me an example where streamers were in favor of mechanics that did not affect everyone equally - but were in favor of changes only benefiting themselves?

Cherryblossom

willlienellson wrote: »

pattyLtd wrote: »

Well, i don't really know who you would like to "represent" us players or how they should go about selecting them?.

Bislobo wrote: »

Wait guys wait, i know this one... The best players to represent our player base.....

Why do you feel inadequate to represent yourselves? Just curious.

@willlienellson

you do understand that they are there to test, they don't represent anyone, they are there to test. Why them? probably because they are actually really good at the game and using the mechanics.

So ZOS has chosen some people who know how to play classes at the top level, some people who can theorycraft OP builds which these top players can play! This believe it or not is essential to stop battlegrounds from being a mess, with just a few OP builds in operation.

They are not there to steer ZOS strategy, ZOS have that covered themselves, that's about money not what people want.

On another note Willie, you need to stop engaging with adhoc attacks and keep to your point. Don't take the salty or jelly comments to heart, just ignore and fight in the corner you have chosen. I personally believe you are in the wrong corner as I believe you're fighting a shadow of your own creation.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

I've done what we assume @Deltia et al are doing in a different game. But I knew that game inside out, I managed 4 servers totaling over 110 player slots, I was very actively involved in cheat detection and prevention, and I could scan down server logs and just know if something was wrong. And with all of that being involved in such a task was not easy.

So am I jealous of those invited? No.
I know I am not at the level of understanding of this game that would make me an asset to that group - and such a group can not afford to have anyone in it that shouldn't be in it.

But @willlienellson points are still valid. A handful of the top 5% of players isn't representative - no matter what it is they are testing, previewing.

Let's assume they are testing the Battlegrounds. If this is how it proceeds then those battlegrounds will be "balanced" around meta builds 90% of the playerbase don't use, gear builds that 90% of the playerbase don't have access to, and a skill level 60^ of the playerbase will never attain.

Cyrodiil already turns most players away from PvP because unless you run a meta build, with uber gear and 500+ CP you are nothing more than meat for someone else's grinder.

Repeating that with Battlegrounds will NOT encourage those players to engage with PvP more than they already do. So you'll end up with all these resources spent on an aspect of the game that maybe 20% regularly use and everyone else uses once and thinks "n'ah, I'd rather not thanks".

If that happens what is the likelihood of ZeniMax spending any more serious money on PvP? Zero!

Some people see Battlegrounds as a leap forward for PvP in ESO.
They aren't.

They are a litmus test for ZeniMax to see if they can make the investment in PvP payoff, to see if PvP is worth supporting at all going forward. Battleground are, in effect, One Tamriel for PvP - an attempt to make that game content much more inclusive, and much more appealing to a greater percentage of the playerbase.

They need a more Inclusive PvP model to make any future investment a value for money investment. And they will not achieve that by balancing the new PvP around 0.01% of the 20% that actually PvP.

The new PvP needs to accommodate non meta builds, it needs to accommodate casual PvPers who roll in with their PvE build (something that SWTOR Warsones did very, very well in comparison to most games), it needs to make sure the bottom 20% of players don't go in there once, get steamrollered and never come back.

So, if this is about getting Battlegrounds tested and balanced by "top end" players and leading edge theorycrafters, as some of you have suggested then the alarming news for you is this: they are still doing it wrong.

All The Best

Kajin

"While these youtubers provide a service with their content, they hardly represent the ESO player base neither formally nor informally. They most often represent each other. They represent a micro-industry that operates along side ESO. If anything in-game, they represent a small minority of elite guilds that don't experience ESO like the rest of us and are not good representatives.

Please allow me to explain and provide exampls."

Why are you saying they represesant ESO player base? They are a part of the ESO player base just like you or me.
They don't respresent us and nether do you. Because all gamers have different view on what they like about ESO or not.

When you have a company and you want a good group of tester, who are you going to pick ? (I'm curious about the answer.)

I'm going with people with knowlegde from different point of views.
Those pleople who got an invite have knowlegde of the game, they are testing stuff before PTS.
When PTS launch we can all test it agian. We can all give feedback.

Do you really think the game is getting worse with players testing that have time and knowledge ?

I know many streamers don't like proc sets or OP sets/skills. Most of them want a fair fighting envorinment that resolves around skills.

willlienellson

Kajin wrote: »

Those pleople who got an invite have knowlegde of the game, they are testing stuff before PTS.
When PTS launch we can all test it agian. We can all give feedback.

Which will be roundly ignored, because their decisions will be so deeply baked into the update at that stage that it's pointless.

This isn't theoretical. That's how the PTS is.

Consider Frost Staff Tanking as an example. Nobody asked for it. Few like it or want it.
It's so fundamentally baked into the patch that stopping the change was never even on the table.
So, in the end, we were all arguing about what sets needed nerfing to accommodate the terribly unbalanced idea baked in.
RIP DESERT ROSE.

So, when you say we'll get to test whatever these guys come up with on the PTS, what you really mean is we'll get to argue over frustrating almost meaningless details like which sets to nerf based on their possibly unbalanced ideas which are set in stone.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Kajin

willlienellson wrote: »

Kajin wrote: »

Those pleople who got an invite have knowlegde of the game, they are testing stuff before PTS.
When PTS launch we can all test it agian. We can all give feedback.

Which will be roundly ignored, because their decisions will be so deeply baked into the update at that stage that it's pointless.

This isn't theoretical. That's how the PTS is.

Consider Frost Staff Tanking as an example. Nobody asked for it. Few like it or want it.
It's so fundamentally baked into the patch that stopping the change was never even on the table.
So, in the end, we were all arguing about what sets needed nerfing to accommodate the terribly unbalanced idea baked in.
RIP DESERT ROSE.

So, when you say we'll get to test whatever these guys come up with on the PTS, what you really mean is we'll get to argue over frustrating almost meaningless details like which sets to nerf based on their possibly unbalanced ideas which are set in stone.

I think that really poor understanding of what they do. The invited people don't come up with stuff, but they give feedback based on knowledge, is that really so bad ?
You want the same thing, but Zenimax can't invited or listen to all the players, that's impossible. I rather have a small group of players that give feedback with knowledge then no extra feedback.

I don't think Zenimax make all the right choices in my opinion and fix all the feedback from PTS and that's the fault of Zenimax not the steamers or testers. And they do listen, but I think it's more difficult to balance then many of you think.

Don't get me wrong I also don't think it's hard to remove proc sets from cyrodiil for example, but I guess it's more complicated then I think.

Cadbury

I've played at least three other MMOs that had a panel of streamers come to their offices for tours/feedback/theorycrafting. And there was a topic exactly like this on their forums. Amazing...

Lord-Otto

This is a good move by ZOS. Just be glad they work with the players.
Sypher and Deltia arguably have vast knowledge about the game. And they actually have a positive attitude towards it. They are useful there in Baltimore, count on that.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Neighbor wrote: »

Really don't know why they even think they need to bring in streamers in the first place. There is hundreds of pages of feedback on PTS forums, and they simply don't listen to us.

You should back up your statement with some facts when you say "they don't listen to us". They might not listen to YOU personally, but in general there have been a couple of changes that prove that they have been listening to forum feedback. (Destro ult. buff, lightning staff AOE effect, just to give a few examples).

Also, forum feedback is totally different from what they are doing now. Players on forum do their own thing and follow their own expectations in the game. Their feedback is just the conclusion of that, and there's usually not much information on what and how they reach that conclusion / feedback.

What ZOS is doing now allows to put all participants in the same conditions, doing the same thing and asked to look at things from the same approach. The collected feedback is much more valuable in those circumstances.

Last but not least, forum feedback doesn't allow ZOS to see what players DO. It's only what players SAY. And more often than not, looking at what people DO differs greatly from what people SAY. When you do behaviour analysis (player/playing behaviour analysis in the current case) it's crucial to consider what people DO and not only what they SAY.

anitajoneb17_ESO

CosmicSoul wrote: »

I do not see how that is painting everyone with a broad brush he is simply talking about the bias of streamers and how they do not represent the community period, as to if its actually true that they somehow are representing the community we do not know, but this is what the topic is about.

Noone ever said they were declared "representants of the community". They're not your Chamber of Parliament, and ZOS won't be forced in any way to take their suggestions and implement them.
It's just a "laboratory" that will provide results/information that ZOS will use to make design decisions. Not more, not less.

Cadbury

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

I do not see how that is painting everyone with a broad brush he is simply talking about the bias of streamers and how they do not represent the community period, as to if its actually true that they somehow are representing the community we do not know, but this is what the topic is about.

Noone ever said they were declared "representants of the community". They're not your Chamber of Parliament, and ZOS won't be forced in any way to take their suggestions and implement them.
It's just a "laboratory" that will provide results/information that ZOS will use to make design decisions. Not more, not less.

Agreed. Amazing how much doom and gloom sprung from this topic.
At least it's popcorn worthy...

Sheyta

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Hey man at least these streamers can spell ZeniMax right.

maybe we dont care that much how its labeled or spelled mostly I into content and OP is right.

Preypacer

Phinix1 wrote: »

I have never met a company or community so allergic to constructive criticism as this one. Here it is treated like anything that isn't kitten memes and compliments is an evil, hostile attack against everything good and right in the world.

Should spend some time in the official FFXIV forums. Not that it jusifies it happening here, but yeah... they're pretty rabid over there, too.

RinaldoGandolphi

Honestly though, this is just fluff by ZOS. Im sad they agreed to actually go. Do they not remember the big guild summit they had at ZOS HQ back in 2014? Showed off all this stuff, promised them all these things, then did none of it....lots of those guilds left the game a few months later and that was that.

Good luck with that...

Darnathian

Mojmir wrote: »

Rex-Umbra wrote: »

I trust my streamers.

Make sure you click that donate button,don't forget to subscribe "play dubstep"

I tuned into one yesterday. Its getting worse. He was begging for one of his streamers to give him 8 temp alloys. Unreal. Lol