The Issue with Eye of the Storm (Destruction Ultimate Morph)

GreenSoup2HoT

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Keep the skill how it is please. I personally use it and it is great for melting groups of bad players. It is super expensive as it should be for what it does, cost is fine. And good players should have np with it. When someone uses it against me I have no problems, as it is not a difficult skill to counter at all with just a little skillful play.

You mean it's easy to counter when someone without much skill uses it. Good luck escaping it when someone spams lotus fan, streak, or any other gap closer on you. The defense of it costs a lot so it should be an I win button is asinine. If the 2H ult was a guaranteed kill ult this forums would be flooded for it to be nerfed, and rightfully so. The EotS needs a nerf.

It does not need a nerf, it needs to be reverted to its old damage/duration model. People complained on pts it was bad and no one even considered its use in group play. Tbh its not even a shock to me that it is now a 1 shot kill zone when groups use it. Even with the old damage model EoTS is deadly.

Witar

Needs to be blockable at least. Right now it just hits too hard.

Joy_Division

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Keep the skill how it is please. I personally use it and it is great for melting groups of bad players. It is super expensive as it should be for what it does, cost is fine. And good players should have np with it. When someone uses it against me I have no problems, as it is not a difficult skill to counter at all with just a little skillful play.

You mean it's easy to counter when someone without much skill uses it. Good luck escaping it when someone spams lotus fan, streak, or any other gap closer on you. The defense of it costs a lot so it should be an I win button is asinine. If the 2H ult was a guaranteed kill ult this forums would be flooded for it to be nerfed, and rightfully so. The EotS needs a nerf.

EOTS is not an I win button.

Strider_Roshin

Joy_Division wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Keep the skill how it is please. I personally use it and it is great for melting groups of bad players. It is super expensive as it should be for what it does, cost is fine. And good players should have np with it. When someone uses it against me I have no problems, as it is not a difficult skill to counter at all with just a little skillful play.

You mean it's easy to counter when someone without much skill uses it. Good luck escaping it when someone spams lotus fan, streak, or any other gap closer on you. The defense of it costs a lot so it should be an I win button is asinine. If the 2H ult was a guaranteed kill ult this forums would be flooded for it to be nerfed, and rightfully so. The EotS needs a nerf.

EOTS is not an I win button.

Yes it is.

Strider_Roshin

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Keep the skill how it is please. I personally use it and it is great for melting groups of bad players. It is super expensive as it should be for what it does, cost is fine. And good players should have np with it. When someone uses it against me I have no problems, as it is not a difficult skill to counter at all with just a little skillful play.

You mean it's easy to counter when someone without much skill uses it. Good luck escaping it when someone spams lotus fan, streak, or any other gap closer on you. The defense of it costs a lot so it should be an I win button is asinine. If the 2H ult was a guaranteed kill ult this forums would be flooded for it to be nerfed, and rightfully so. The EotS needs a nerf.

It does not need a nerf, it needs to be reverted to its old damage/duration model. People complained on pts it was bad and no one even considered its use in group play. Tbh its not even a shock to me that it is now a 1 shot kill zone when groups use it. Even with the old damage model EoTS is deadly.

That's what a great deal of us have been suggesting.

Xsorus

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Keep the skill how it is please. I personally use it and it is great for melting groups of bad players. It is super expensive as it should be for what it does, cost is fine. And good players should have np with it. When someone uses it against me I have no problems, as it is not a difficult skill to counter at all with just a little skillful play.

You mean it's easy to counter when someone without much skill uses it. Good luck escaping it when someone spams lotus fan, streak, or any other gap closer on you. The defense of it costs a lot so it should be an I win button is asinine. If the 2H ult was a guaranteed kill ult this forums would be flooded for it to be nerfed, and rightfully so. The EotS needs a nerf.

It does not need a nerf, it needs to be reverted to its old damage/duration model. People complained on pts it was bad and no one even considered its use in group play. Tbh its not even a shock to me that it is now a 1 shot kill zone when groups use it. Even with the old damage model EoTS is deadly.

This is incorrect, I pointed it out multiple times it was going to be used by zerg ball groups...and people still whined like idiots.

Strider_Roshin

Xsorus wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Keep the skill how it is please. I personally use it and it is great for melting groups of bad players. It is super expensive as it should be for what it does, cost is fine. And good players should have np with it. When someone uses it against me I have no problems, as it is not a difficult skill to counter at all with just a little skillful play.

You mean it's easy to counter when someone without much skill uses it. Good luck escaping it when someone spams lotus fan, streak, or any other gap closer on you. The defense of it costs a lot so it should be an I win button is asinine. If the 2H ult was a guaranteed kill ult this forums would be flooded for it to be nerfed, and rightfully so. The EotS needs a nerf.

It does not need a nerf, it needs to be reverted to its old damage/duration model. People complained on pts it was bad and no one even considered its use in group play. Tbh its not even a shock to me that it is now a 1 shot kill zone when groups use it. Even with the old damage model EoTS is deadly.

This is incorrect, I pointed it out multiple times it was going to be used by zerg ball groups...and people still whined like idiots.

Yep

GreenSoup2HoT

Xsorus wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Keep the skill how it is please. I personally use it and it is great for melting groups of bad players. It is super expensive as it should be for what it does, cost is fine. And good players should have np with it. When someone uses it against me I have no problems, as it is not a difficult skill to counter at all with just a little skillful play.

You mean it's easy to counter when someone without much skill uses it. Good luck escaping it when someone spams lotus fan, streak, or any other gap closer on you. The defense of it costs a lot so it should be an I win button is asinine. If the 2H ult was a guaranteed kill ult this forums would be flooded for it to be nerfed, and rightfully so. The EotS needs a nerf.

It does not need a nerf, it needs to be reverted to its old damage/duration model. People complained on pts it was bad and no one even considered its use in group play. Tbh its not even a shock to me that it is now a 1 shot kill zone when groups use it. Even with the old damage model EoTS is deadly.

This is incorrect, I pointed it out multiple times it was going to be used by zerg ball groups...and people still whined like idiots.

I agree with you even though i personally never saw your posts. Basically just waiting for the good ol Wrobel patch to come out.

Minalan

Any less damage than it has now and nobody will use it. Stam users will sit inside of it like its nothing at all, and continue to farm magicka users with impunity just like all of you have since the dark brotherhood patch.

Again. That's what all of you really want and I sincerely hope you don't get it.

Sandman929

Minalan wrote: »

Any less damage than it has now and nobody will use it. Stam users will sit inside of it like its nothing at all, and continue to farm magicka users with impunity just like all of you have since the dark brotherhood patch.

Again. That's what all of you really want and I sincerely hope you don't get it.

The vast majority of players seem to be able to withstand it in group play, at least the ones running as/with competent healers.
Players that were already hurt tend to die, everyone else comes out a little beat up. Of course that's a pretty broad generalization. I have no doubt that 2-3 synchronized destro ultis is pretty devastating, and the devastation has a much larger impact than 2-3 Dawnbreakers.

Valencer

Minalan wrote: »

Any less damage than it has now and nobody will use it. Stam users will sit inside of it like its nothing at all, and continue to farm magicka users with impunity just like all of you have since the dark brotherhood patch.

Again. That's what all of you really want and I sincerely hope you don't get it.

Okay. Thanks for telling us youre just defending EotS because youre salty.

I hope you lose your overpowered toy, and I hope stamina builds lose theirs. Crazy thought, huh?

Waffennacht

Valencer wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Any less damage than it has now and nobody will use it. Stam users will sit inside of it like its nothing at all, and continue to farm magicka users with impunity just like all of you have since the dark brotherhood patch.

Again. That's what all of you really want and I sincerely hope you don't get it.

Okay. Thanks for telling us youre just defending EotS because youre salty.

I hope you lose your overpowered toy, and I hope stamina builds lose theirs. Crazy thought, huh?

We all know only magicka loses anything.

Joy_Division

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Keep the skill how it is please. I personally use it and it is great for melting groups of bad players. It is super expensive as it should be for what it does, cost is fine. And good players should have np with it. When someone uses it against me I have no problems, as it is not a difficult skill to counter at all with just a little skillful play.

You mean it's easy to counter when someone without much skill uses it. Good luck escaping it when someone spams lotus fan, streak, or any other gap closer on you. The defense of it costs a lot so it should be an I win button is asinine. If the 2H ult was a guaranteed kill ult this forums would be flooded for it to be nerfed, and rightfully so. The EotS needs a nerf.

EOTS is not an I win button.

Yes it is.

Maybe against you. Not against me.

Edit: You ever think that the reason Cryodiil is a messed up place with OP stuff is because people like you argue with hyperbole and exaggerate to such an effect that Wrobel feels compelled to (over) compensate? I'm guessing not because your agenda of how you think the game ought to be played is more important.

So go ahead and keep exaggerating that it is an "I win" button and continue this cycle of stupidity. People use EOTS against me every night and they do not always or even commonly defeat me from it so I reject your claim that it is an "I win" button.

Draven147

I think that if people stopped schooling up like fish and spread out more the ult's effectiveness would be vastly reduced. If you are in a group and when you meet another group your first instinct should be to spread out. If I'm 1v1 or 1v2ing im not going to drop 250 on my ult to get the kill. I feel like with all that requires attention in Cyrodiil, EotS is somewhere near the middle of the bottom.

It needs to hit hard for the cost of it and to break up all these zerg groups that a lot of people are constantly complaining about. Look what happened to proxy det and vicious death. A lot of people complained that "zergs were ruining PvP" so what did ZOS do? They brought in sets and skills to counteract that. How did that work out? Nerfed into the ground and almost entirely gone from PvP

I think that an adjustment is needed to EotS not a nerf. Perhaps if the radius was reduced from what it is now to something closer to Grothdarr's size, say an 8-15m range not 28m. That would still make it very effective but not roll over everything. The damage output I think is on par with the cost and if the damage was reduced so should the cost. It also shouldn't be invisible when cast from stealth either and I'm sure they are working on fixing that. It's a new skill and with that will come bugs and glitches. I think more time for a play-style adjustment is needed before calling for it's head.

Ultimate's need to be feared and respected and being hit with multiple ones needs to make you dead, end of story. It shouldn't matter if it is a magicka based ult or physical damage based. Several people coordinating their ults (weather in group chat or by coincidence) should be able to melt groups. If I get you down to half health and pop my ult (again, regardless if magicka or physical based) and stay on you aggressively, you should die. To think that you should be able to withstand that while staying on the offensive is just silly.

It's a true shame shame that all the people complaining about the first really effective magicka based ult in a long while will get it destroyed and made useless. People have been complaining about the super proc meta for going on 4 months now and the vast majority of responses have been "L2P" Now that there is some push back from the magicka side of the fence damage wise it's a "major issue and needs to be fixed immediately!"

Lava_Croft

"first really effective Magicka based ult in a long time"

Either you are new and a long time means a few months or you are an older player that likes fairytales.

Minalan

Valencer wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Any less damage than it has now and nobody will use it. Stam users will sit inside of it like its nothing at all, and continue to farm magicka users with impunity just like all of you have since the dark brotherhood patch.

Again. That's what all of you really want and I sincerely hope you don't get it.

Okay. Thanks for telling us youre just defending EotS because youre salty.

I hope you lose your overpowered toy, and I hope stamina builds lose theirs. Crazy thought, huh?

Stamina was over the top before they got their "toy".

Lava_Croft wrote: »

"first really effective Magicka based ult in a long time"

Either you are new and a long time means a few months or you are an older player that likes fairytales.

Name one magicka ult that's remotely as effective as incap strike (50 cost) or dawnbreaker (120 cost). Neither telegraph. Both can be animation cancelled. Both include real nice CC. And they are both instant combo kills.

You have to be baaaad, AFK, dumb, or just not paying attention to die to a meteor (lol block), soul assault (lol block), or an overload (lol dodge roll). Most stam build can stand up and completely ignore a storm atronach (stun it, and it doesn't get back up before the Sorc dies).

So tell me. What else is there? I know facts and figures are hard, but TRY it for once in this thread. Because frankly all you've done is cry and call names. Enough already. I'm listening. Tell me something I missed.

Where is a magicka ultimate to compete with the dual wield, sword and board, fighters guild, or incap strike ultimates?

GreenSoup2HoT

@Minalan

Soul Harvest
Soul Tether
Negate
Soul Assault
Meteor
Devouring Swarm

They are all very strong. Just because you dont know how to use them correctly and in tandom with cc does not make them worst then Incap or DBoS. L2P.

Minalan

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@Minalan

Soul Harvest
Soul Tether
Negate
Soul Assault
Meteor
Devouring Swarm

They are all very strong. Just because you dont know how to use them correctly and in tandom with cc does not make them worst then Incap or DBoS. L2P.

Man, now I wish I was a nightblade and could try the first two.

Negate doesn't kill people. It's always someone else on your team spamming ults in the middle of it. It's VERY useful, and great for zerg play, but not as much for duels or small scale.

Meteor and SA have long obvious telegraphs and channel times. We've already discussed that. See ult. HOLD block. Three second later. Little to no damage taken. Stam players love it because it's a guaranteed win.

Devouring Swarm? So I have to go vampire to get one ult that isn't garbage? No thanks.

You know what's real sad? Dawnbreaker is so GOOD that dual wield magicka sorcerers still slot it - even though we don't have any CP points in mighty or gear with weapon damage. It's just that much better than most alternatives. Now we finally get a decent ult, and you want it gone. Just admit it!

Waffennacht

I would like to point out a lot of builds are built around such a move.

My cheese sorc is based on SA. If I drop SA the build is pretty lackluster. BUT my SA hits extremely hard (100k tooltip). Any player could use my SA as an example of it being OP, and their death recap may indicate such, but that's only because the build gives up everything else.

Trust me, there is no, "I win" button, it takes skill no matter the poison, move, etc, trust me I've tried. Just slotting eye or just slotting magicka poison, or just slappin on malubeth. I have done all of that and still lost to superior players lol

thankyourat

Minalan wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@Minalan

Soul Harvest
Soul Tether
Negate
Soul Assault
Meteor
Devouring Swarm

They are all very strong. Just because you dont know how to use them correctly and in tandom with cc does not make them worst then Incap or DBoS. L2P.

Man, now I wish I was a nightblade and could try the first two.

Negate doesn't kill people. It's always someone else on your team spamming ults in the middle of it. It's VERY useful, and great for zerg play, but not as much for duels or small scale.

Meteor and SA have long obvious telegraphs and channel times. We've already discussed that. See ult. HOLD block. Three second later. Little to no damage taken. Stam players love it because it's a guaranteed win.

Devouring Swarm? So I have to go vampire to get one ult that isn't garbage? No thanks.

You know what's real sad? Dawnbreaker is so GOOD that dual wield magicka sorcerers still slot it - even though we don't have any CP points in mighty or gear with weapon damage. It's just that much better than most alternatives. Now we finally get a decent ult, and you want it gone. Just admit it!

Duel wield magicka sorcerer needs a cheap ultimate because they have zero sustained damage so it's like the only option. Everyone rags on meteor but it's strong if you time it with a CC. my person opinion is it's the strongest ultimate in the game. Especially shooting stars ultimate regen. It just requires a little more skill to use. But my shooting star hits at lowest 10k and I've hit people with as high as 18k.

GreenSoup2HoT

Minalan wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@Minalan

Soul Harvest
Soul Tether
Negate
Soul Assault
Meteor
Devouring Swarm

They are all very strong. Just because you dont know how to use them correctly and in tandom with cc does not make them worst then Incap or DBoS. L2P.

Man, now I wish I was a nightblade and could try the first two.

Negate doesn't kill people. It's always someone else on your team spamming ults in the middle of it. It's VERY useful, and great for zerg play, but not as much for duels or small scale.

Meteor and SA have long obvious telegraphs and channel times. We've already discussed that. See ult. HOLD block. Three second later. Little to no damage taken. Stam players love it because it's a guaranteed win.

Devouring Swarm? So I have to go vampire to get one ult that isn't garbage? No thanks.

You know what's real sad? Dawnbreaker is so GOOD that dual wield magicka sorcerers still slot it - even though we don't have any CP points in mighty or gear with weapon damage. It's just that much better than most alternatives. Now we finally get a decent ult, and you want it gone. Just admit it!

Dawnbreaker still scales with your highest stat. You just dont get your cp to scale with it. Its what stamblades and stamsorcs had to deal with before stamina ults.

I dont want the destro ult gone. I just want a blatantly overpowered ultimate to be toned down to its original damage model before carebears created a monster of an ultimate. It was perfectly balanced when it was released. In my opinion it was over-tuned just to please all you magicka users before the big balance patch coming out arrives.. which will end up probably reverting the destro ultimate and buffing other aspects of each magicka classes ability's somewhere. Don't worry proc sets will most likely be nerfed as well. Your trying to defend something that has double the damage as bat swarm but also does 25% more to vampires. It was perfectly fine as an ultimate with double the duration and radius of bats but also dealt 25% more damage to vampire. Not to mention the status effect is applies.

Are you the kind of player to use Soul Assault or Meteor on a full health target? Just because they do have obvious telegraphs does not make them useless, in the hands of someone who knows how to play and combo makes them very deadly. You keep dismissing skillful play.

Negate doesn't kill people...sure. It has a morph that does a ton of damage per second and silences. Regarded as the best ultimate in the game for pvp. One of the most useful small-scale ultimate's in the game as well. This game isn't balanced around Dueling but i've seen Negate win plenty of Duels.

Disregarding devouring swarm because you refuse to be one... oki. Not even going to comment on that one.

Minalan

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@Minalan

Soul Harvest
Soul Tether
Negate
Soul Assault
Meteor
Devouring Swarm

They are all very strong. Just because you dont know how to use them correctly and in tandom with cc does not make them worst then Incap or DBoS. L2P.

Man, now I wish I was a nightblade and could try the first two.

Negate doesn't kill people. It's always someone else on your team spamming ults in the middle of it. It's VERY useful, and great for zerg play, but not as much for duels or small scale.

Meteor and SA have long obvious telegraphs and channel times. We've already discussed that. See ult. HOLD block. Three second later. Little to no damage taken. Stam players love it because it's a guaranteed win.

Devouring Swarm? So I have to go vampire to get one ult that isn't garbage? No thanks.

You know what's real sad? Dawnbreaker is so GOOD that dual wield magicka sorcerers still slot it - even though we don't have any CP points in mighty or gear with weapon damage. It's just that much better than most alternatives. Now we finally get a decent ult, and you want it gone. Just admit it!

Dawnbreaker still scales with your highest stat. You just dont get your cp to scale with it. Its what stamblades and stamsorcs had to deal with before stamina ults.

I dont want the destro ult gone. I just want a blatantly overpowered ultimate to be toned down to its origanal damage model before carebears created a monster of an ultimate. It was perfectly balanced when it was released. In my opinion it was overtuned just to please all you cry baby magicka users before the big balance patch coming out arrives.. which will end up probably reverting the destro ultimate while buffing other aspects of each magicka classes abilitys somewhere. Dont worry proc sets will most likely be nerfed aswell.

Are you the kind of player to use Soul Assault or Meteor on a full health target? Have you heard of a combo before? Just because they do have obvious telegraphs does not make them useless, in the hands of someome who knows how to play they are very deadly. You keep dismissing skillful play.

Negate doesnt kill people... okiii. It has a morph that does a ton of damage per second and silences. Regarded as the best ultimate in the game. One of the most useful smallscale ultimates in the game aswell.

Disregarding devouring swarm because you refuse to be one... oki. Not even going to comment on that one.

Negate gets like one tick before you just roll right out of it. You have to have someone stuck in their hard with no stamina left to kill someone with that. Even then.. if they have no stam left there are better ways to do it. It's an anti zerg tool.

The telegraph is what makes meteor bad to use against good players. You know that. Getting a combo off against someone who knows how to play with a two second telegraph Ultimate is much harder than with an animation cancelled DBoS. It works against low stam magicka types, but the stam guys laugh at it and hold block.

Soul Assault is a four second self-rooting suicide pact, you will die standing there like an idiot with your hand out. Anyone who says otherwise is salty about forgetting to block it or just kill the guy doing it.

DBoS is a sad thing without mighty CP backing it up. But magicka people STILL use it despite the 25% damage disparity. Why?

thankyourat

If you cc right before meteor lands you know it can't be blocked right

Minalan

thankyourat wrote: »

If you cc right before meteor lands you know it can't be blocked right

If the guy is already holding block as soon as he hears the thumping noise, you know you can't CC him right?

My point is. With the telegraph on it, it's not impossible but certainly more difficult to land an unblocked meteor than an unblocked dawnbreaker. Can we agree on this, or are we going to seriously argue the point?

Distance and range are not factors with gap closers.

GreenSoup2HoT

Minalan wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@Minalan

Soul Harvest
Soul Tether
Negate
Soul Assault
Meteor
Devouring Swarm

They are all very strong. Just because you dont know how to use them correctly and in tandom with cc does not make them worst then Incap or DBoS. L2P.

Man, now I wish I was a nightblade and could try the first two.

Negate doesn't kill people. It's always someone else on your team spamming ults in the middle of it. It's VERY useful, and great for zerg play, but not as much for duels or small scale.

Meteor and SA have long obvious telegraphs and channel times. We've already discussed that. See ult. HOLD block. Three second later. Little to no damage taken. Stam players love it because it's a guaranteed win.

Devouring Swarm? So I have to go vampire to get one ult that isn't garbage? No thanks.

You know what's real sad? Dawnbreaker is so GOOD that dual wield magicka sorcerers still slot it - even though we don't have any CP points in mighty or gear with weapon damage. It's just that much better than most alternatives. Now we finally get a decent ult, and you want it gone. Just admit it!

Dawnbreaker still scales with your highest stat. You just dont get your cp to scale with it. Its what stamblades and stamsorcs had to deal with before stamina ults.

I dont want the destro ult gone. I just want a blatantly overpowered ultimate to be toned down to its origanal damage model before carebears created a monster of an ultimate. It was perfectly balanced when it was released. In my opinion it was overtuned just to please all you cry baby magicka users before the big balance patch coming out arrives.. which will end up probably reverting the destro ultimate while buffing other aspects of each magicka classes abilitys somewhere. Dont worry proc sets will most likely be nerfed aswell.

Are you the kind of player to use Soul Assault or Meteor on a full health target? Have you heard of a combo before? Just because they do have obvious telegraphs does not make them useless, in the hands of someome who knows how to play they are very deadly. You keep dismissing skillful play.

Negate doesnt kill people... okiii. It has a morph that does a ton of damage per second and silences. Regarded as the best ultimate in the game. One of the most useful smallscale ultimates in the game aswell.

Disregarding devouring swarm because you refuse to be one... oki. Not even going to comment on that one.

Negate gets like one tick before you just roll right out of it. You have to have someone stuck in their hard with no stamina left to kill someone with that. Even then.. if they have no stam left there are better ways to do it. It's an anti zerg tool.

The telegraph is what makes meteor bad to use against good players. You know that. Getting a combo off against someone who knows how to play with a two second telegraph Ultimate is much harder than with an animation cancelled DBoS. It works against low stam magicka types, but the stam guys laugh at it and hold block.

Soul Assault is a four second self-rooting suicide pact, you will die standing there like an idiot with your hand out. Anyone who says otherwise is salty about forgetting to block it or just kill the guy doing it.

DBoS is a sad thing without mighty CP backing it up. But magicka people STILL use it despite the 25% damage disparity. Why?

I'd like to see you face tank a 100k soul assault without a s+b and live to tell the tale. Especially when that player pre shields and healing wards making them un-kill-able for the duration of the channel.

Magicka users still use DBoS for the stun honestly. Set's up nice combos and procs skoria nicely. Forgot to mention that Storm Atro does some decent burst on impact but Meteor is still better.

About the negate your right but it depends the situation really. In a Resource Tower its area denial. You dont die for the duration as long as you chill inside. Magicka Sorcs will probably still use Meteor honestly and streak to cc them through block (when not using negate for anti-zerg fun).

To be honest im against animation canceling. You should be able to see the dawn-breaker coming and react... but thats not my fault. Blaim Zos for that one.

thankyourat wrote: »

If you cc right before meteor lands you know it can't be blocked right

Theres no hope for this one. Might as well be talking to a wall.

thankyourat

Minalan wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

If you cc right before meteor lands you know it can't be blocked right

If the guy is already holding block as soon as he hears the thumping noise, you know you can't CC him right?

My point is. With the telegraph on it, it's not impossible but certainly more difficult to land an unblocked meteor than an unblocked dawnbreaker. Can we agree on this, or are we going to seriously argue the point?

Distance and range are not factors with gap closers.

I agree dbos is very user friendly. I guess I'm thinking about meteor from a nightblades perspective. If I fear before the meteor land it's always unblocked. Because my CCs are unblockable. I think they have to keep the telegraph though the burst is way too high to not have it.

Minalan

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@Minalan

Soul Harvest
Soul Tether
Negate
Soul Assault
Meteor
Devouring Swarm

They are all very strong. Just because you dont know how to use them correctly and in tandom with cc does not make them worst then Incap or DBoS. L2P.

Man, now I wish I was a nightblade and could try the first two.

Negate doesn't kill people. It's always someone else on your team spamming ults in the middle of it. It's VERY useful, and great for zerg play, but not as much for duels or small scale.

Meteor and SA have long obvious telegraphs and channel times. We've already discussed that. See ult. HOLD block. Three second later. Little to no damage taken. Stam players love it because it's a guaranteed win.

Devouring Swarm? So I have to go vampire to get one ult that isn't garbage? No thanks.

You know what's real sad? Dawnbreaker is so GOOD that dual wield magicka sorcerers still slot it - even though we don't have any CP points in mighty or gear with weapon damage. It's just that much better than most alternatives. Now we finally get a decent ult, and you want it gone. Just admit it!

Dawnbreaker still scales with your highest stat. You just dont get your cp to scale with it. Its what stamblades and stamsorcs had to deal with before stamina ults.

I dont want the destro ult gone. I just want a blatantly overpowered ultimate to be toned down to its origanal damage model before carebears created a monster of an ultimate. It was perfectly balanced when it was released. In my opinion it was overtuned just to please all you cry baby magicka users before the big balance patch coming out arrives.. which will end up probably reverting the destro ultimate while buffing other aspects of each magicka classes abilitys somewhere. Dont worry proc sets will most likely be nerfed aswell.

Are you the kind of player to use Soul Assault or Meteor on a full health target? Have you heard of a combo before? Just because they do have obvious telegraphs does not make them useless, in the hands of someome who knows how to play they are very deadly. You keep dismissing skillful play.

Negate doesnt kill people... okiii. It has a morph that does a ton of damage per second and silences. Regarded as the best ultimate in the game. One of the most useful smallscale ultimates in the game aswell.

Disregarding devouring swarm because you refuse to be one... oki. Not even going to comment on that one.

Negate gets like one tick before you just roll right out of it. You have to have someone stuck in their hard with no stamina left to kill someone with that. Even then.. if they have no stam left there are better ways to do it. It's an anti zerg tool.

The telegraph is what makes meteor bad to use against good players. You know that. Getting a combo off against someone who knows how to play with a two second telegraph Ultimate is much harder than with an animation cancelled DBoS. It works against low stam magicka types, but the stam guys laugh at it and hold block.

Soul Assault is a four second self-rooting suicide pact, you will die standing there like an idiot with your hand out. Anyone who says otherwise is salty about forgetting to block it or just kill the guy doing it.

DBoS is a sad thing without mighty CP backing it up. But magicka people STILL use it despite the 25% damage disparity. Why?

I'd like to see you face tank a 100k soul assault without a s+b and live to tell the tale. Especially when that player pre shields and healing wards making them un-kill-able for the duration of the channel.

Magicka users still use DBoS for the stun honestly. Set's up nice combos and procs skoria nicely. Forgot to mention that Storm Atro does some decent burst on impact but Meteor is still better.

About the negate your right but it depends the situation really. In a Resource Tower its area denial. You dont die for the duration as long as you chill inside. Magicka Sorcs will probably still use Meteor honestly and streak to cc them through block (when not using negate for anti-zerg fun).

To be honest im against animation canceling. You should be able to see the dawn-breaker coming and react... but thats not my fault. Blaim Zos for that one.

thankyourat wrote: »

If you cc right before meteor lands you know it can't be blocked right

Theres no hope for this one. Might as well be talking to a wall.

I'd probably double shield and kill the Soul Assault user. He can't stop a curse, a frag, or a even a meteor during the channel. Suicide. Pact.

I do blame ZOS for animation cancelling but we're stuck with it.

Back to our big point: magicka ults aren't that great. Let's not make the destro ult useless shall we? I'd be okay with a longer cast, a bigger red circle. It doesn't hit nearly as hard though as people report here.

Waffennacht

@Minalan i would like to point out my SA build goes: familiar, curse, SA. Your gonna have a 12.5k tick per SA, familiar's AoE will tick during this time for 6k total and then the unblockable curse hits for 6k.

In the span of 4 secs you're facing 62k damage (after PvP reduction) before block. That's no crits, it can proc implosion , and more than likely my shields procced IG so you can potentially add another 7k non crit to that (you are snared)

I quite often kill people while they are at full health and full resources.

Others just require some damage being done first.

However, reactive armor is a great hard counter + block.

Minalan

@Waffennacht I do wish we could duel because I would like to see how that works with a pet build.

Last time I got hit with it, I just fast-spammed double shields for four seconds.

The nasty combo is hitting someone with rune prison and THEN soul assault. It's cheap if the other guy hasn't encountered it before.

GreenSoup2HoT

@Waffennacht How is Reactive a counter? SA doesn't CC. Or is there a CC in your combo somewhere?