The Issue with Eye of the Storm (Destruction Ultimate Morph)

Waffennacht

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Waffennacht wrote: »

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Waffennacht wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

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Lokey0024 wrote: »

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thankyourat wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

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Minalan wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Would be interested to know how many of you here, who complain about the damage, are running stage4 vampire...

Not saying its balanced ult, doesnt need nerf, etc... but I bet most players wouldnt cry about it that much if they werent running with 25% fire weakness.

I see the lightning one the most tbh

Lightning gets the small damage bonus from Sorc and can proc disintegration, it also gets two more seconds with the stationary morph.

Fire I see more often though because so many people run sharpened fire destro staves.

I'm just not seeing the kind of damage people are complaining about though except for those that I know to be vampires. Can this ult be empowered or something?

Mine isn't exactly a low damage build...

You don't see the dmg because you are protected by 3 nice giant wards.

Is this the part where magicka players say "You should just roll a magicka toon and stop crying"? I recall seeing that a lot at the start of stam meta.

Lol they can roll heavy armor and stay stamina. Which honestly they should be doing anyway until ZoS balances out the damage in the game. It is a shame basically everyone has to wear heavy armor in this game

Heavy armor doen't give protection at all it just has sustain, heavy get survivability through blocking, and only magicka DK benefit from perma block.

You should have enough Spell pen to ignore spell resistance.

Most heavy builds run around 25K spell resistance buffed ( 28K for mDK)
25K spell resistance: 38% dmg mitigation ( 43% at 28K)


LA passive: 4K spell pen( 7% ignored)
Sharpened staff: 5K spell pen ( 8% ignored)
Penetrating magic destro passive: 6.6K spell pen ( 10% ignored)
Spell erosion CP: 27 pts = 5.2K spell pen ( 10% ignored)
Major breech: 5.2K spell pen ( 8% ignored)

And for funzies, Crusher enchant: 1.3K spell pen ( 2% ignored)

45% spell pen( possible) - 38% spell resistance = Zero resistance( or 2% dmg mtigation)

45% possible spell pen, please cry more about heavy armor being so OP.

Check your math and actual numbers. 100cp spell erosion is 5.2k spell pen. Penetrating on staves is 10% so 2.5k-3.2k pen, tops. The other numbers are good but not one person runs 100 in spell erosion, is a damage loss (8%tops). For perspective, from 75pnts in elemental to 100 is 5% gain in dmg, while a 25 point investment in erosion is a 2% dmg gain. Even after 100 in elemental is reached, the points are better allocated to % crit dmg and dot dmg. The dmg scaling at low end in cp trees is faster gain up to around half.

Whoops I stand corrected, I haven't put points in spell erosion in a while didn't realize how many points you need to get that high thanks for the correction.

Also unless I'm mistaken I believe the formula for dmg mitigation is 660 physical/spell resistance = 1% dmg mitigation.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Edit]

So instead of 45% spell pen it would be 37% spell pen.

Far less, since my Sorc doesn't get major breach. And there's no way I'm putting weakness to elements on a mob of 30 people before I drop this ult, I don't even have room to front bar that.

Spell erosion is about 2K with that many points (2%?). It puts spell pen up around 12K or so for most non destro spells, since I'm not running spinner (not a fan of it).

"On a mob of 30 people..."

There's your problem right there. Zerg warfare is mindless and spammy. Large combat is not an accurate portrayal of classes or abilities. It's an accurate portrayal of the lowest common denominator.

There is a reason the masses left Cyrodiil in favor of 1v1 dueling, where individual skill and class strengths actually matter.

Do not use large combat as an indication of anything outside of what one button is the easiest to push.

I get what you're saying but I really don't understand the hate for a tactic that the game is built around.

Serously it's a Cyrodiil war not a COD match if he wants to do large scale PVP they let him. Scrutinizing people for 'zerging' a mechanic that PVP devs probably worked for years on is laughable at best. Zerging is bas because of lagg, AoE caps and removal of softcaps it has nothing to do with "Mindless button mashing".

Pvp is balanced around this mechanic and NOT dueling for a reason if it was PVP would be terrible.

I guess you never captured keeps then? You definitely won't cap keeps "mindlessly button mashing"

I capture keeps single handedly.

If people enjoy it, go for it. But it is not evidence of balance or lack there of. You cannot cite 5 ults being used at once by 5 different players as evidence of a move being OP, that's just silly. Of course things get messy when you have several players using powerful moves.

To me, zerging, or even being just apart of a "big battle" requires the least amount of attention and skill. And I have been. You need far more situational awareness and ability when soloing or even in coordinated small groups.

But 30 v 30 is just a slog of button mashing (usually executes for easy AP)

I'm not insulting anyone, not unless you find this particular truth hurtful. And just because the game centers around it (theoretically) that still doesn't mean skill or any measure there of exists - making any information gathered thereby worthless when dealing with the analysis of specific individual abilities.

Lol "I solo keeps" unless you exploit that's not possible how would you get through the walls without alarming enemy players? Maybe you think its skilled to solo an empty keep full of Npcs?

I never claimed the ultimate was OP that was taken out of context.

I get it you don't like Zerging that's fine that's your opinion, but what is fact is that PVP was designed around large scale Battle.

- Cyrodiil is large
- There are Keeps to capture
- Siege Weapons
- Its and Alliance war
- you can become emperor

I mean you were LITERALLY advertised large scale battles why did you buy the game if you hate it so much?

I know it must drive the ego out of you to be able to kill potatoes and roll behind trees and rocks to be 'skillful'

"If you find this particular truth hurtful" I think you should replace the word truth with opinion.

Sounds like you've been zerged down before don't be bitter it will be ok get back out there and roll behind those trees. Oh and before you start assuming that i'm a zergling you can put that aside, unless you consider an 8 man group a 'zerg'.

No, I consider a zerg a large ball or mass of players moving as such they look like a single entity or very close mob. I have seen such things and have also witnessed the zerg refuse to separate even though it resulted in their defeat - even when it meant separately they could have won.

It's also human nature to have a "mob"mentality, the more people you have together the less there is individual thought.

You also make my point of how taking keeps can be completely irrelevant, I'm surprised you brought it up in the first place.

I'll also let you know that I'm deeply against using LoS, but that's my personal preference. I've already said I prefer dueling. But seeing as there was two years before dueling was released, I have plenty of Open World PvP experience. The first thing you learn is not letting your death bother you.

Why I bought the game had nothing to do with PvP large or small. When it released on PC I read about it and watched videos and was absolutely disgusted with it. It wasn't until the revamp prior console release (why it was delayed) did the new version interest me. After a skyrim high how could I resist one of only two MMOs? Especially when it carried the Elder Scrolls name? That's why I bought it, the only commercials I saw were the "live" action films that showed absolutely nothing about the actual game.

And I do avoid large battles in Cyrodiil, I won't condemn anyone who enjoys it, but only a fool believes 30 v 30 is an accurate assessment of a single ability. And just because you say it's an opinion, it's still a fact.

miahus

I wear 5 heavy, my resists are 20k+ health is 25k, I was killed today in less than 2 seconds by a stamblade using new proc sets. This is high damage, not an ultimate that costs 250 and takes 7 seconds to do its full damage.

Stratforge

miahus wrote: »

I wear 5 heavy, my resists are 20k+ health is 25k, I was killed today in less than 2 seconds by a stamblade using new proc sets. This is high damage, not an ultimate that costs 250 and takes 7 seconds to do its full damage.

Here's a wild idea: both are bad.

AzuraKin

i laugh when people say an ultimate that can do 72-78k total damage to a target at 250 ult cost is too op aint seen dw ult, you aint gonna see that *** an dit can hig 60k at 150 ult

AzuraKin

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

They need to do something with this ulti. ATM it feels like an I win button. Basically fights come down to tanking/sustaining until eye of storm is up then killing. Either you get proc'ed to death or you manage to survive long enough to ult and you win

I don't want it to be useless though =/

If they reduce the damage on the eye morph or make it blockable it becomes a warm comfortable sauna for stam people, which is really what they want. Let's be honest.

I understand the problems involved in balancing an ulti that ONLY provides damage, but in its current iteration it is FAR too strong. I think I've fought only 1 person to survive eye only to be killed seconds later after they blew all their resources to survive in execute range. Its stupid how strong this ability is and unfortunately idk what to do to fix it. You're right about reducing the damage too much making it useless, but right now its too strong.

rofl i watched a guy survive a high powered eye of storm without dropping below 50% health or blowing through thier resources, everyone complaining about eye of storm is having a L2P issue.

Minalan

AzuraKin wrote: »

i laugh when people say an ultimate that can do 72-78k total damage to a target at 250 ult cost is too op aint seen dw ult, you aint gonna see that *** an dit can hig 60k at 150 ult

Psst! Only stamina is allowed to be overpowered!

Truth doesn't belong in this thread, only whining about magicka ultimates. So hush!

What we really want is for magicka builds to go back to being free AP Pinatas.

Anti_Virus

Waffennacht wrote: »

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Waffennacht wrote: »

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Waffennacht wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

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Lokey0024 wrote: »

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thankyourat wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

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Minalan wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Would be interested to know how many of you here, who complain about the damage, are running stage4 vampire...

Not saying its balanced ult, doesnt need nerf, etc... but I bet most players wouldnt cry about it that much if they werent running with 25% fire weakness.

I see the lightning one the most tbh

Lightning gets the small damage bonus from Sorc and can proc disintegration, it also gets two more seconds with the stationary morph.

Fire I see more often though because so many people run sharpened fire destro staves.

I'm just not seeing the kind of damage people are complaining about though except for those that I know to be vampires. Can this ult be empowered or something?

Mine isn't exactly a low damage build...

You don't see the dmg because you are protected by 3 nice giant wards.

Is this the part where magicka players say "You should just roll a magicka toon and stop crying"? I recall seeing that a lot at the start of stam meta.

Lol they can roll heavy armor and stay stamina. Which honestly they should be doing anyway until ZoS balances out the damage in the game. It is a shame basically everyone has to wear heavy armor in this game

Heavy armor doen't give protection at all it just has sustain, heavy get survivability through blocking, and only magicka DK benefit from perma block.

You should have enough Spell pen to ignore spell resistance.

Most heavy builds run around 25K spell resistance buffed ( 28K for mDK)
25K spell resistance: 38% dmg mitigation ( 43% at 28K)


LA passive: 4K spell pen( 7% ignored)
Sharpened staff: 5K spell pen ( 8% ignored)
Penetrating magic destro passive: 6.6K spell pen ( 10% ignored)
Spell erosion CP: 27 pts = 5.2K spell pen ( 10% ignored)
Major breech: 5.2K spell pen ( 8% ignored)

And for funzies, Crusher enchant: 1.3K spell pen ( 2% ignored)

45% spell pen( possible) - 38% spell resistance = Zero resistance( or 2% dmg mtigation)

45% possible spell pen, please cry more about heavy armor being so OP.

Check your math and actual numbers. 100cp spell erosion is 5.2k spell pen. Penetrating on staves is 10% so 2.5k-3.2k pen, tops. The other numbers are good but not one person runs 100 in spell erosion, is a damage loss (8%tops). For perspective, from 75pnts in elemental to 100 is 5% gain in dmg, while a 25 point investment in erosion is a 2% dmg gain. Even after 100 in elemental is reached, the points are better allocated to % crit dmg and dot dmg. The dmg scaling at low end in cp trees is faster gain up to around half.

Whoops I stand corrected, I haven't put points in spell erosion in a while didn't realize how many points you need to get that high thanks for the correction.

Also unless I'm mistaken I believe the formula for dmg mitigation is 660 physical/spell resistance = 1% dmg mitigation.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Edit]

So instead of 45% spell pen it would be 37% spell pen.

Far less, since my Sorc doesn't get major breach. And there's no way I'm putting weakness to elements on a mob of 30 people before I drop this ult, I don't even have room to front bar that.

Spell erosion is about 2K with that many points (2%?). It puts spell pen up around 12K or so for most non destro spells, since I'm not running spinner (not a fan of it).

"On a mob of 30 people..."

There's your problem right there. Zerg warfare is mindless and spammy. Large combat is not an accurate portrayal of classes or abilities. It's an accurate portrayal of the lowest common denominator.

There is a reason the masses left Cyrodiil in favor of 1v1 dueling, where individual skill and class strengths actually matter.

Do not use large combat as an indication of anything outside of what one button is the easiest to push.

I get what you're saying but I really don't understand the hate for a tactic that the game is built around.

Serously it's a Cyrodiil war not a COD match if he wants to do large scale PVP they let him. Scrutinizing people for 'zerging' a mechanic that PVP devs probably worked for years on is laughable at best. Zerging is bas because of lagg, AoE caps and removal of softcaps it has nothing to do with "Mindless button mashing".

Pvp is balanced around this mechanic and NOT dueling for a reason if it was PVP would be terrible.

I guess you never captured keeps then? You definitely won't cap keeps "mindlessly button mashing"

I capture keeps single handedly.

If people enjoy it, go for it. But it is not evidence of balance or lack there of. You cannot cite 5 ults being used at once by 5 different players as evidence of a move being OP, that's just silly. Of course things get messy when you have several players using powerful moves.

To me, zerging, or even being just apart of a "big battle" requires the least amount of attention and skill. And I have been. You need far more situational awareness and ability when soloing or even in coordinated small groups.

But 30 v 30 is just a slog of button mashing (usually executes for easy AP)

I'm not insulting anyone, not unless you find this particular truth hurtful. And just because the game centers around it (theoretically) that still doesn't mean skill or any measure there of exists - making any information gathered thereby worthless when dealing with the analysis of specific individual abilities.

Lol "I solo keeps" unless you exploit that's not possible how would you get through the walls without alarming enemy players? Maybe you think its skilled to solo an empty keep full of Npcs?

I never claimed the ultimate was OP that was taken out of context.

I get it you don't like Zerging that's fine that's your opinion, but what is fact is that PVP was designed around large scale Battle.

- Cyrodiil is large
- There are Keeps to capture
- Siege Weapons
- Its and Alliance war
- you can become emperor

I mean you were LITERALLY advertised large scale battles why did you buy the game if you hate it so much?

I know it must drive the ego out of you to be able to kill potatoes and roll behind trees and rocks to be 'skillful'

"If you find this particular truth hurtful" I think you should replace the word truth with opinion.

Sounds like you've been zerged down before don't be bitter it will be ok get back out there and roll behind those trees. Oh and before you start assuming that i'm a zergling you can put that aside, unless you consider an 8 man group a 'zerg'.

No, I consider a zerg a large ball or mass of players moving as such they look like a single entity or very close mob. I have seen such things and have also witnessed the zerg refuse to separate even though it resulted in their defeat - even when it meant separately they could have won.

It's also human nature to have a "mob"mentality, the more people you have together the less there is individual thought.

You also make my point of how taking keeps can be completely irrelevant, I'm surprised you brought it up in the first place.

I'll also let you know that I'm deeply against using LoS, but that's my personal preference. I've already said I prefer dueling. But seeing as there was two years before dueling was released, I have plenty of Open World PvP experience. The first thing you learn is not letting your death bother you.

Why I bought the game had nothing to do with PvP large or small. When it released on PC I read about it and watched videos and was absolutely disgusted with it. It wasn't until the revamp prior console release (why it was delayed) did the new version interest me. After a skyrim high how could I resist one of only two MMOs? Especially when it carried the Elder Scrolls name? That's why I bought it, the only commercials I saw were the "live" action films that showed absolutely nothing about the actual game.

And I do avoid large battles in Cyrodiil, I won't condemn anyone who enjoys it, but only a fool believes 30 v 30 is an accurate assessment of a single ability. And just because you say it's an opinion, it's still a fact.

No it's opinion, most skills are designed around it, it's what most pvpers enjoy do you really think they will balance the game around small scalers like us? A minority in PVP?

remember proxy dex? It was meant to kill zergs not a single target, the destro staff ulti is an AoE its effective at single but most effective at group wiping, a little strong? Yes but it works as intended. DKs don't have any execute why? Because Mr. Wrobel said "well they can just have allies kill them off"


Same can be said with bow skilline. Its a terrible skilline in PVP if you want to deal dmg with it on your own, snipe moves very slow and has an audio que, but in the heat of large battle you can pick unsepecting people off.

Btw I never said taking keeps is irrelevant once again taken out of context. If you think it's 'skill' to solo a keeps with no players in it and kill a bunch of Npcs then as opposed to fighting actual players then I don't know what to tell ya.

A nerf in PVP also hurt PVErs and I know you guys don't care about them but it effects them too. Destro staff ultimate is strong but if it works in large scale PVP and PVE then don't expect a huge change. EoTS could yse a littls tweaking but for the most part I think it's fine.

Also I would assume I'm that outsider on the forums since I'm not jumping on the Wrobel hate bandwagon, zerg hate bandwagon, stamina hate bandwagon etc.

steussy

No. Does not need a nerf. Note to ZOS, please do not give into the whiners of this game. Magicka classes have taken too many hits as it is.

Strider_Roshin

steussy wrote: »

No. Does not need a nerf. Note to ZOS, please do not give into the whiners of this game. Magicka classes have taken too many hits as it is.

They gave into whiners. That's why it's OP. If ZOS simply had ignore the whining to begin with we wouldn't have such a ridiculously OP move in this game.

Master_Kas

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

steussy wrote: »

No. Does not need a nerf. Note to ZOS, please do not give into the whiners of this game. Magicka classes have taken too many hits as it is.

They gave into whiners. That's why it's OP. If ZOS simply had ignore the whining to begin with we wouldn't have such a ridiculously OP move in this game.

Without the buffs it got it would just be a more expensive version of bats. Tickeling heavy armor proctards while they outheal it without issues.

CapuchinSeven

It's defiantly at its best when it's used with a gap close and/or a immovable pot. But then many abilities are deadly when used in combination with things, that's kinda the point.

(and at 200 Ultimate it damn well better be deadly if you're in it).

Lord-Otto

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

steussy wrote: »

No. Does not need a nerf. Note to ZOS, please do not give into the whiners of this game. Magicka classes have taken too many hits as it is.

They gave into whiners. That's why it's OP. If ZOS simply had ignore the whining to begin with we wouldn't have such a ridiculously OP move in this game.

The same can be said about Proxy Det nerf.
The fact of the matter stands, magicka builds needed a counter to gap closers, dodgers and blockers. Just like stamina builds have shield breaker, can dodge/reflect projectiles and can force melee range upon you.

Eye of the Storm and Soul Assault are necessary. Even if you wanted to tone down the damage, it would have to fulfil the same role, making melee range lethal or executing you when you lost your momentum. Otherwise you could delete it.

Let's give it a thought.
If we were to justify deleting these two ults in regards to fairness, here's what magicks builds should get in return:

A gap OPENER, a move that knocks you back 22 metres, snareroots you and ignores CC immunity.
Break free and sprint and dodge with magicka. I say blocking and HoTs like Vigor should remain stamina, to compensate for shields. Note how dodge gives I-frames, unlike shields.
Dual staves. 22% damage boost for 2h staves.
Cost reduction perks for destro resto. Spellpower perk for light armor.
Blockbreaker set. Dodgebreaker set. Overall, just magicka versions of existing stamina sets.

Post is getting too long, but by now you should get the idea. Stamina has some significant advantages that counter magicka hard. We now got two counters to specific stamina builds. They were needed and you should learn to play around them.

Oh, and zergs playing EotS? I remember zergs rocking spamnado and gapclosing you to death with spambush. I tell you the same I was told, when you face halfway competent players and your group is the minority, you should lose, anyway. Also, after all, stamina people wanted zerg bomb proxy nerfed. That's what you get. Buff Proxy, maybe?

leepalmer95

Just nerf the eye of the storm morph by like 20% dmg and just say because the storm moves with you it loses potency, easy enough.

connorw53

Biro123 wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

And since just about all PvP these days revolves around large groups congregating in a few places on the map, there's really no escaping Eye of Bullcrap wars at all.

It's too bad the developers of this game prefer to keep interaction with their PvP community to a level that rounds down to zero.

You're right there. Something that I REALLY hate about PVP at the mo is the actions of these EOTS ball-groups.. Wouldn't be so bad if they did more to open up their own fronts/attacks etc.. but all I see are situations where Red and blue are having a nice unco-ordinated zerg-off, back and forth between Ales and Chalman - then suddenly there's a yellow ball-group in the middle spamming EOTS - leaving swathes of dead strewn in their path, Then its like 'Well, there goes that fight... back to tome-farming I guess'..

Or its Blue vs Yellow, and the red ball-group appears in the middle... usually claiming the milegate between Ash and Roe or something... Its almost like they're acting as police in a football riot - separating the two opposing sides..

And then you get them all in the same place.. They avoid fighting each other - I guess cos they know that they would both come off so bad that the pugs would just pick off what's left. Pugs get farmed, and I'm sure will eventually just stop playing.

preach

Joy_Division

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

It's defiantly at its best when it's used with a gap close and/or a immovable pot. But then many abilities are deadly when used in combination with things, that's kinda the point.

(and at 200 Ultimate it damn well better be deadly if you're in it).

250 even.

Minalan

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Just nerf the eye of the storm morph by like 20% dmg and just say because the storm moves with you it loses potency, easy enough.

Yeah how about.... not? 20% would make it mostly useless. Which is really what you want. Let's be honest, the stationary morph is next isn't it?

Joy_Division wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

It's defiantly at its best when it's used with a gap close and/or a immovable pot. But then many abilities are deadly when used in combination with things, that's kinda the point.

(and at 200 Ultimate it damn well better be deadly if you're in it).

250 even.

Remember kids, this ultimate costs FIVE Incap strikes, and TWO dawnbreakers.

Lava_Croft

The cost of the Ultimate is the argument in favor of its damage, while its damage is the argument in favor of its cost.

Am i the only one who finds this reasoning highly questionable at least? It only deals with the Ultimate itself and not the way it operates in Cyrodiil.

CapuchinSeven

Joy_Division wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

It's defiantly at its best when it's used with a gap close and/or a immovable pot. But then many abilities are deadly when used in combination with things, that's kinda the point.

(and at 200 Ultimate it damn well better be deadly if you're in it).

250 even.

Yes you're right, 250 even!

CapuchinSeven

Lava_Croft wrote: »

The cost of the Ultimate is the argument in favor of its damage, while its damage is the argument in favor of its cost.

Am i the only one who finds this reasoning highly questionable at least? It only deals with the Ultimate itself and not the way it operates in Cyrodiil.

I don't even really think that damage is the problem people have with it (although they might think it is), I think the bigger picture is gap close spam and the ability to shrug off CC (but mostly gap close spam), if someone doesn't use a gap close and possibly an immovable pot/whatever then they are not killing my stamblade with it most of the time.

Anti_Virus

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

steussy wrote: »

No. Does not need a nerf. Note to ZOS, please do not give into the whiners of this game. Magicka classes have taken too many hits as it is.

They gave into whiners. That's why it's OP. If ZOS simply had ignore the whining to begin with we wouldn't have such a ridiculously OP move in this game.

The same can be said about Proxy Det nerf.
The fact of the matter stands, magicka builds needed a counter to gap closers, dodgers and blockers. Just like stamina builds have shield breaker, can dodge/reflect projectiles and can force melee range upon you.

Eye of the Storm and Soul Assault are necessary. Even if you wanted to tone down the damage, it would have to fulfil the same role, making melee range lethal or executing you when you lost your momentum. Otherwise you could delete it.

Let's give it a thought.
If we were to justify deleting these two ults in regards to fairness, here's what magicks builds should get in return:

A gap OPENER, a move that knocks you back 22 metres, snareroots you and ignores CC immunity.
Break free and sprint and dodge with magicka. I say blocking and HoTs like Vigor should remain stamina, to compensate for shields. Note how dodge gives I-frames, unlike shields.
Dual staves. 22% damage boost for 2h staves.
Cost reduction perks for destro resto. Spellpower perk for light armor.
Blockbreaker set. Dodgebreaker set. Overall, just magicka versions of existing stamina sets.

Post is getting too long, but by now you should get the idea. Stamina has some significant advantages that counter magicka hard. We now got two counters to specific stamina builds. They were needed and you should learn to play around them.

Oh, and zergs playing EotS? I remember zergs rocking spamnado and gapclosing you to death with spambush. I tell you the same I was told, when you face halfway competent players and your group is the minority, you should lose, anyway. Also, after all, stamina people wanted zerg bomb proxy nerfed. That's what you get. Buff Proxy, maybe?

Except proxy det was designed around killing large groups, NOT single target it still works as intended.

And yeah I remeber the perma bat DKs and sorcs that impulse spamed through zergs.

Sureshawt

Lava_Croft wrote: »

This Ultimate is absolutely stupid. All you have to do is cast it and spam gap closers when solo or run with your blob when not solo and because of the ridiculous damage and the fact that you can't block it, people are unable to counter it. No, you cannot dodge roll or jump out of it, since it's centered around the player and all the player has to do is spam gap closers.

And the best part? It's not even Wrobel's fault this time. It's all the so-called pro players who whined about this Ultimate's DPS without even testing it, while at the same time crying at ZOS for never testing things.

But yeah, 2H Ultimate totally overpowered.

This about sums it up, however, I do believe certain players knew exactly what they were doing when asking for it to be buffed on PTS.They wanted an OP toy and got it.

Waffennacht

So Im gonna just chalk this up as a win...

We have completely forgot about how broken OP black Rose is...

::eyeroll::

leepalmer95

Waffennacht wrote: »

So Im gonna just chalk this up as a win...

We have completely forgot about how broken OP black Rose is...

::eyeroll::

Thats one of the problems with this game.

OP things are left instead of fixed because something else more OP is brought in.

Crom_CCCXVI

The main issue is you can't see it, when you are in it.


CONSIDERING MAGIKA BUILDS DON"T GET THE RIDICULIOUS PROC CHAINS... the damage is fine.

Strider_Roshin

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

The main issue is you can't see it, when you are in it.


CONSIDERING MAGIKA BUILDS DON"T GET THE RIDICULIOUS PROC CHAINS... the damage is fine.

Your logic is terrible.

Lord-Otto

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

steussy wrote: »

No. Does not need a nerf. Note to ZOS, please do not give into the whiners of this game. Magicka classes have taken too many hits as it is.

They gave into whiners. That's why it's OP. If ZOS simply had ignore the whining to begin with we wouldn't have such a ridiculously OP move in this game.

The same can be said about Proxy Det nerf.
The fact of the matter stands, magicka builds needed a counter to gap closers, dodgers and blockers. Just like stamina builds have shield breaker, can dodge/reflect projectiles and can force melee range upon you.

Eye of the Storm and Soul Assault are necessary. Even if you wanted to tone down the damage, it would have to fulfil the same role, making melee range lethal or executing you when you lost your momentum. Otherwise you could delete it.

Let's give it a thought.
If we were to justify deleting these two ults in regards to fairness, here's what magicks builds should get in return:

A gap OPENER, a move that knocks you back 22 metres, snareroots you and ignores CC immunity.
Break free and sprint and dodge with magicka. I say blocking and HoTs like Vigor should remain stamina, to compensate for shields. Note how dodge gives I-frames, unlike shields.
Dual staves. 22% damage boost for 2h staves.
Cost reduction perks for destro resto. Spellpower perk for light armor.
Blockbreaker set. Dodgebreaker set. Overall, just magicka versions of existing stamina sets.

Post is getting too long, but by now you should get the idea. Stamina has some significant advantages that counter magicka hard. We now got two counters to specific stamina builds. They were needed and you should learn to play around them.

Oh, and zergs playing EotS? I remember zergs rocking spamnado and gapclosing you to death with spambush. I tell you the same I was told, when you face halfway competent players and your group is the minority, you should lose, anyway. Also, after all, stamina people wanted zerg bomb proxy nerfed. That's what you get. Buff Proxy, maybe?

Except proxy det was designed around killing large groups, NOT single target it still works as intended.

And yeah I remeber the perma bat DKs and sorcs that impulse spamed through zergs.

Which kept zergs in check.
Proxy now only works on a very specific build on a very specific class. Which leaves something to be desired, which EotS delivers.

Strider_Roshin

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

steussy wrote: »

No. Does not need a nerf. Note to ZOS, please do not give into the whiners of this game. Magicka classes have taken too many hits as it is.

They gave into whiners. That's why it's OP. If ZOS simply had ignore the whining to begin with we wouldn't have such a ridiculously OP move in this game.

The same can be said about Proxy Det nerf.
The fact of the matter stands, magicka builds needed a counter to gap closers, dodgers and blockers. Just like stamina builds have shield breaker, can dodge/reflect projectiles and can force melee range upon you.

Eye of the Storm and Soul Assault are necessary. Even if you wanted to tone down the damage, it would have to fulfil the same role, making melee range lethal or executing you when you lost your momentum. Otherwise you could delete it.

Let's give it a thought.
If we were to justify deleting these two ults in regards to fairness, here's what magicks builds should get in return:

A gap OPENER, a move that knocks you back 22 metres, snareroots you and ignores CC immunity.
Break free and sprint and dodge with magicka. I say blocking and HoTs like Vigor should remain stamina, to compensate for shields. Note how dodge gives I-frames, unlike shields.
Dual staves. 22% damage boost for 2h staves.
Cost reduction perks for destro resto. Spellpower perk for light armor.
Blockbreaker set. Dodgebreaker set. Overall, just magicka versions of existing stamina sets.

Post is getting too long, but by now you should get the idea. Stamina has some significant advantages that counter magicka hard. We now got two counters to specific stamina builds. They were needed and you should learn to play around them.

Oh, and zergs playing EotS? I remember zergs rocking spamnado and gapclosing you to death with spambush. I tell you the same I was told, when you face halfway competent players and your group is the minority, you should lose, anyway. Also, after all, stamina people wanted zerg bomb proxy nerfed. That's what you get. Buff Proxy, maybe?

Except proxy det was designed around killing large groups, NOT single target it still works as intended.

And yeah I remeber the perma bat DKs and sorcs that impulse spamed through zergs.

Which kept zergs in check.
Proxy now only works on a very specific build on a very specific class. Which leaves something to be desired, which EotS delivers.

Proxy det works well against zergs, and multiple opponents. The eye of the storm outperforms every single target ultimate in the game, and it's a mobile ultimate with a massive AoE. You have no sense of balance if you don't believe this ability needs to be reverted back to its original form.

thankyourat

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

steussy wrote: »

No. Does not need a nerf. Note to ZOS, please do not give into the whiners of this game. Magicka classes have taken too many hits as it is.

They gave into whiners. That's why it's OP. If ZOS simply had ignore the whining to begin with we wouldn't have such a ridiculously OP move in this game.

The same can be said about Proxy Det nerf.
The fact of the matter stands, magicka builds needed a counter to gap closers, dodgers and blockers. Just like stamina builds have shield breaker, can dodge/reflect projectiles and can force melee range upon you.

Eye of the Storm and Soul Assault are necessary. Even if you wanted to tone down the damage, it would have to fulfil the same role, making melee range lethal or executing you when you lost your momentum. Otherwise you could delete it.

Let's give it a thought.
If we were to justify deleting these two ults in regards to fairness, here's what magicks builds should get in return:

A gap OPENER, a move that knocks you back 22 metres, snareroots you and ignores CC immunity.
Break free and sprint and dodge with magicka. I say blocking and HoTs like Vigor should remain stamina, to compensate for shields. Note how dodge gives I-frames, unlike shields.
Dual staves. 22% damage boost for 2h staves.
Cost reduction perks for destro resto. Spellpower perk for light armor.
Blockbreaker set. Dodgebreaker set. Overall, just magicka versions of existing stamina sets.

Post is getting too long, but by now you should get the idea. Stamina has some significant advantages that counter magicka hard. We now got two counters to specific stamina builds. They were needed and you should learn to play around them.

Oh, and zergs playing EotS? I remember zergs rocking spamnado and gapclosing you to death with spambush. I tell you the same I was told, when you face halfway competent players and your group is the minority, you should lose, anyway. Also, after all, stamina people wanted zerg bomb proxy nerfed. That's what you get. Buff Proxy, maybe?

Except proxy det was designed around killing large groups, NOT single target it still works as intended.

And yeah I remeber the perma bat DKs and sorcs that impulse spamed through zergs.

Which kept zergs in check.
Proxy now only works on a very specific build on a very specific class. Which leaves something to be desired, which EotS delivers.

Proxy det works well against zergs, and multiple opponents. The eye of the storm outperforms every single target ultimate in the game, and it's a mobile ultimate with a massive AoE. You have no sense of balance if you don't believe this ability needs to be reverted back to its original form.

Well not necessarily better than every single target ultimate it matters who you are fighting against. If you are fighting someone in light armor or a tank in heavy armor I find it more beneficial to use a burst ultimate like meteor because if I use eots they'll just heal or shield through my damage. against medium armor user I find eots to be the better option because they don't have the damage mitigation or the healing to counter it. Well at least most don't. It is most definitely the best aoe ultimate by far.

Blackfyre20

Keep the skill how it is please. I personally use it and it is great for melting groups of bad players. It is super expensive as it should be for what it does, cost is fine. And good players should have np with it. When someone uses it against me I have no problems, as it is not a difficult skill to counter at all with just a little skillful play.

Strider_Roshin

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

Keep the skill how it is please. I personally use it and it is great for melting groups of bad players. It is super expensive as it should be for what it does, cost is fine. And good players should have np with it. When someone uses it against me I have no problems, as it is not a difficult skill to counter at all with just a little skillful play.

You mean it's easy to counter when someone without much skill uses it. Good luck escaping it when someone spams lotus fan, streak, or any other gap closer on you. The defense of it costs a lot so it should be an I win button is asinine. If the 2H ult was a guaranteed kill ult this forums would be flooded for it to be nerfed, and rightfully so. The EotS needs a nerf.