why hasn't radiant destruction been nerfed yet?...

FearlessOne_2014

Sandman929 wrote: »

Stam defenders are hilarious. There's always so much skill that magicka builds just can't grasp about what they do. They seem to forget that a lot of players have both magicka and stamina characters, and I can say there's nothing skillful about passively dodging 40% of attacks aimed at you because you cast Shuffle.

If any other attack actually connected now and then, RD would be used less often.

Highly agree with this!

Minno

Here's some insight into how a templar can play a ranged DPS spec.

Current templar ranged skills:
-vamps bane/reflected light: our only classic DOT. Gives us spell crit increase if used. Also gives minor spell dmg to self and allies. Snare debuff. Instant cast. HIGHLY reflected. Dmg isn't ideal when compared to other spam able skills.
- dark flare/solar garage: only ranged major defile class skill that adds heal debuff as an AOE (snipe I think is single target only). Adds empower. Huge dmg potential for ranged, AOE morph very expensive for the 4k dmg before battle spirit (pve tank skill). DF highly reflective. Interrupted. huge cast time and travel time. Huge risk huge reward
- purifying light: very unique dmg store ability. In PvE very strong, PvP strong but against dodge rollers, hard to reach max dps if some attacks missing. Ranged means missing on the heal AOE unless close to target. Stam version adds minor physical and spell penetration.
- unstable core: too expensive, one bubble at a time, other morph only adds AOE dmg. Time delay attack very useful sorc tool to help protect and burn their stam. Can reflect snipe/dual weld blades.
- Rd:. Our only execute. Tooltip suggests it's designed to be a DpS ability with an execute (mostly to make up for Templars having one tree dedicated to healing). Can help clench a kill if the enemy doesn't have the proper healing. interrupted. Bonus dmg based on current Magicka meaning if you cast at 100% you receive 20% additional dmg, at 50% Magicka you get 10% extra dmg. bonus dmg calculated at start of channel and doesn't change. Only low health bonus changes. Other morph helps add healing based on dmg to help keep you on the offensive. Ideal health execute range is 40% contrary to other executes being at 25%. @Asayre had this spell tested 6 months ago and the important time to use the spell is when you want dps of pre-execute phase to match your execute phase. His studies concluded roughly that time to be 40% health at all Magicka pool levels. This depends on your current build setup and enemy resistance levels. (http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/thieves-guild-pts-2-3-execution-of-radiant-oppression/)

That's the rundown on the ranged skill tree Templars have. This doesn't include ranged spear.

loyalhabsfan

So if I post the video of me fighting a stam dk at around 50% health and getting a 25k ONE tick Radiant Destruction from a cp250 magplar, you're going to say that's not OP?

FearlessOne_2014

loyalhabsfan wrote: »

So if I post the video of me fighting a stam dk at around 50% health and getting a 25k ONE tick Radiant Destruction from a cp250 magplar, you're going to say that's not OP?

I don't have to say anything RD for me as a Ranged Based Templar is rarely used to secure PC kills unless they are just being "absent minded" at the time and allow me to cast the full beam uninterrupted. I don't use Sweeps I'm a range dps/ healer hybrid Magplar. Most of my kills are secured by Reflecting light and when they start to do their whole monkey routine away from me in execute range that's when I go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4b_RRAavJA . Other then that if you faced my Max Level Templar you know it's not my RD you have to worry about but how I set you up like a puppet and I'm the puppet master with the exception of the select few players that can kill me with 5 or 6 attacks in less then 2, 3 seconds max.

The main reason I am defending RD is not only because it's not a balance issue, but a L2P issue. But because if we Magicka based players do not speak up as we didn't in the past, ZOS would just hear the cries of near God Easy Mode Stamina Based players and we would once again as per mDK, as per mNB, as per mSorc, and now mTemp in the their cross-hairs to finish their road to ultimate and unchallenged Stamina Supremacy. All the while they can soak up more damage then most actually tank builds with dodge and Shuffle, while at the same time killing players with over 30k spell and physical resistance with 2k or more critical resistance in less the 2, 3 seconds max. Yet they are crying nerf to a class that has to play them like a chess match to secure the kill against them.

Stoopid_Nwah

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Other then that if you faced my Max Level Templar you know it's not my RD you have to worry about but how I set you up like a puppet and I'm the puppet master with the exception of the select few players that can kill me with 5 or 6 attacks in less then 2, 3 seconds max.

Lol I'm sorry but now I truly just can't take you seriously.

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

But because if we Magicka based players do not speak up as we didn't in the past, ZOS would just hear the cries of near God Easy Mode Stamina Based players

Please stop trying to group up all magicka players. Not all of us wish to join the forumplar warriors. Besides, I already said I don't personally have issues with it (never have thanks to purge+cloak)...but if it's true and someone can show me a video of them interrupting the beam by air-bashing the beam specifically and not the caster, then I'll happily switch my position to no nerf is needed.

FearlessOne_2014

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Other then that if you faced my Max Level Templar you know it's not my RD you have to worry about but how I set you up like a puppet and I'm the puppet master with the exception of the select few players that can kill me with 5 or 6 attacks in less then 2, 3 seconds max.

Lol I'm sorry but now I truly just can't take you seriously.

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

But because if we Magicka based players do not speak up as we didn't in the past, ZOS would just hear the cries of near God Easy Mode Stamina Based players

Please stop trying to group up all magicka players. Not all of us wish to join the forumplar warriors. Besides, I already said I don't personally have issues with it (never have thanks to purge+cloak)...but if it's true and someone can show me a video of them interrupting the beam by air-bashing the beam specifically and not the caster, then I'll happily switch my position to no nerf is needed.

It's all good man I never really took you serious since you started pushing the ideal that RD needs a nerf. Also the way you present your arguments about nerfs without posting any hardcore evidence. Even tho my previous posts had hardcore evidence that RD is a meager skill compare to alot of the Stamina based abilities like NBs stamina abilities. And yes in Trueflame about the NBs killing players and surviving like that is completely true that it's standard now for them, other stamina based classes are not that far behind on that curve. Yet you are avidly crying for RD nerfs and expect the Devs and players to take you seriously.

MalakithAlamahdi

Sandman929 wrote: »

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

loyalhabsfan wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

There's nothing to change for some setups vs radiant.

Its alright to continue telling everyone to learn to play - post counts go up, threads are all over. Ultimately, high posts and many threads lead to these things getting on the chopping block. I'm sure its already there. Its just a matter of how its being changed.

Templar's are hands down the most obstinate group of players to actually have a conversation with. Its not even worth engaging them at all on the issue - just to ramp up post counts in these threads.

Normally your posts are really good but this is just terrible logic.

Of course Templar are going to defend their class and until hard evidence is provided that shows them it does in fact need a nerf they have every right and responsibility to counter argue. To date the evidence provided has been substandard.

You know damn well that if someone was asking for a nerf to Stamsorc you would require copious evidence and if they did not meet that requirement you would argue against the change just as voraciously. It's disingenuous to imply otherwise and quite distasteful of you to insult them for defending their class.

Besides, if change is to happen ZOS has to be convinced not Templar's. Arguing with Templar's is pointless cause they have no power to change anything. If you want their support for a change you damn well better provide solid evidence though or they are going to ignore you and ridicule you as is their prerogative.

I have the evidence. Y'all just wait. Simply haven't had the time.

Then I'll be right here on the edge of my seat.

Wait evidence for what?

That RD is painful below 50% health I suspect...and that it can't be dodged. EXPOSED!

Lol wut? It's supposed to be undogable, nothing about it is exposed. The only time it can hit hard below 50% hp is when you are a very squishy build, and that's your own fault, not the one of the spell.

Not great with sarcasm detection, huh?

Kinda hard to detect when the actual people that cry nerf say they same thing.

FearlessOne_2014

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Other then that if you faced my Max Level Templar you know it's not my RD you have to worry about but how I set you up like a puppet and I'm the puppet master with the exception of the select few players that can kill me with 5 or 6 attacks in less then 2, 3 seconds max.

Lol I'm sorry but now I truly just can't take you seriously.

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

But because if we Magicka based players do not speak up as we didn't in the past, ZOS would just hear the cries of near God Easy Mode Stamina Based players

Please stop trying to group up all magicka players. Not all of us wish to join the forumplar warriors. Besides, I already said I don't personally have issues with it (never have thanks to purge+cloak)...but if it's true and someone can show me a video of them interrupting the beam by air-bashing the beam specifically and not the caster, then I'll happily switch my position to no nerf is needed.

Look how OP RD is while in Execute range in the video right after the 1 minute marker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmaTsDe-PX4

Damn RD sooo OP, ok I give I'll level with you, it needs a anti-nerf to the ability. Did you see those snipes tho? Did you? Lmfao and you wonder why I don't take you serious. I can link you many videos of the OP nature of RD. But I'm still waiting on your evidence to back up your cries for nerf, I'm just going to chalk it up to a refusal to learn but instead rather run to the forums annd hope the Devs make the game even easyer then yall have it now.

And I'm going to warn you this last time, stop trying to defame my character with slander by calling me a forumplar warrior. It's legally wrong. I am not a "forumplar warrior", I am a player who has not only presented a proper counter argument, but also have shown evidence to back up my opinion and reasoning. To the point that what I am saying is fact. What evidence have you shown me other then personal feelings and views, without any other evidence to support your baseless claims, that RD needs a nerf?

Again as aways, it's been a blast debating with you. People like you make winning for people like me very easy. Again much love as always

Stoopid_Nwah

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Damn RD sooo OP, ok I give I'll level with you, it needs a anti-nerf to the ability. Did you see those snipes tho? Did you? Lmfao and you wonder why I don't take you serious. I can link you many videos of the OP nature of RD. But I'm still waiting on your evidence to back up your cries for nerf, I'm just going to chalk it up to a refusal to learn but instead rather run to the forums annd hope the Devs make the game even easyer then yall have it now.

And I'm going to warn you this last time, stop trying to defame my character with slander by calling me a forumplar warrior. It's legally wrong. I am not a "forumplar warrior", I am a player who has not only presented a proper counter argument, but also have shown evidence to back up my opinion and reasoning. To the point that what I am saying is fact. What evidence have you shown me other then personal feelings and views, without any other evidence to support your baseless claims, that RD needs a nerf?

Again as aways, it's been a blast debating with you. People like you make winning for people like me very easy. Again much love as always

Your attitude is not one that welcomes discussion, but rather one that comes off extremely elitist/closed off, to the point I'm not sure where to even begin. Though if you choose to reply, please actually read what I have to say as I am starting to realize there is no way that you are actually reading through posts that make suggestions, state opinions, or even mention the word nerf.

This is not my thread, I am not trying to lead some "nerf rd omg so OP" march. I came here to post my opinion on the ability while also trying to see it from the point of view of other classes and players. Do I play stam often? No. My main is a magicka nb, so there is not nor has there ever been a time that I personally have struggled to counter RD. I have already agreed that stamina is king now and should most certainly be looked at for balancing.

Additionally, I have stated that if it is true you can air-bash RD and someone can show me a video, then I will say hey thanks, learned something new, and will happily agree no nerfs at all are in order. This right here, is called being open-minded and willing to discuss, not a refusal to learn as you suggested.

The videos you presented do not show any hard evidence for me, sorry. A streamer not dying to radiant is not a proper test. I would love to conduct some, but it's difficult on console. I never said I would present evidence, nor did I claim to. Again, stating opinions and starting discussion is healthy in trying to achieve balance, and hopefully people with the ability to provide real testing data chime in to even further benefit the discussion.

You have not warned me about the usage of forumplar, but if you want to sound like you read a law 101 textbook, it would be libel you're going for, not slander . You may want to read a bit deeper on what that actually entails as well. Being called a forumplar is not something that would be damaging to your reputation. You are a templar. You are on the forums. Templar+forum = forumplar. I would also suggest you take a quick look at the differences between fact and opinion and think twice before trying to use "legal speak" against someone whose education and profession is unknown to you.

FearlessOne_2014

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Damn RD sooo OP, ok I give I'll level with you, it needs a anti-nerf to the ability. Did you see those snipes tho? Did you? Lmfao and you wonder why I don't take you serious. I can link you many videos of the OP nature of RD. But I'm still waiting on your evidence to back up your cries for nerf, I'm just going to chalk it up to a refusal to learn but instead rather run to the forums annd hope the Devs make the game even easyer then yall have it now.

And I'm going to warn you this last time, stop trying to defame my character with slander by calling me a forumplar warrior. It's legally wrong. I am not a "forumplar warrior", I am a player who has not only presented a proper counter argument, but also have shown evidence to back up my opinion and reasoning. To the point that what I am saying is fact. What evidence have you shown me other then personal feelings and views, without any other evidence to support your baseless claims, that RD needs a nerf?

Again as aways, it's been a blast debating with you. People like you make winning for people like me very easy. Again much love as always

Your attitude is not one that welcomes discussion, but rather one that comes off extremely elitist/closed off, to the point I'm not sure where to even begin. Though if you choose to reply, please actually read what I have to say as I am starting to realize there is no way that you are actually reading through posts that make suggestions, state opinions, or even mention the word nerf.

This is not my thread, I am not trying to lead some "nerf rd omg so OP" march. I came here to post my opinion on the ability while also trying to see it from the point of view of other classes and players. Do I play stam often? No. My main is a magicka nb, so there is not nor has there ever been a time that I personally have struggled to counter RD. I have already agreed that stamina is king now and should most certainly be looked at for balancing.

Additionally, I have stated that if it is true you can air-bash RD and someone can show me a video, then I will say hey thanks, learned something new, and will happily agree no nerfs at all are in order. This right here, is called being open-minded and willing to discuss, not a refusal to learn as you suggested.

The videos you presented do not show any hard evidence for me, sorry. A streamer not dying to radiant is not a proper test. I would love to conduct some, but it's difficult on console. I never said I would present evidence, nor did I claim to. Again, stating opinions and starting discussion is healthy in trying to achieve balance, and hopefully people with the ability to provide real testing data chime in to even further benefit the discussion.

You have not warned me about the usage of forumplar, but if you want to sound like you read a law 101 textbook, it would be libel you're going for, not slander . You may want to read a bit deeper on what that actually entails as well. Being called a forumplar is not something that would be damaging to your reputation. You are a templar. You are on the forums. Templar+forum = forumplar. I would also suggest you take a quick look at the differences between fact and opinion and think twice before trying to use "legal speak" against someone whose education and profession is unknown to you.

Ok I'm listening to you Stoopid_Nwah.

Hashtag_

maxjapank wrote: »

Hashtag_ wrote: »

1) Reduce range from 28m to 14-15m
2) Reduce execute range from 50% down to 25%
3) Remove the Instant full damage tick and make the ability perform like a channel.

No

Great discussion, glad you participated.

Drdeath20

You can literally air bash radiant off of you. I do it all the time. The tricky part is when multiple people beam you. Because 1 bash is not enough. Being a Magicka based character I don't have a ton of stamina so if at most I get like 3 consecutive bashes. Being a magplar if I'm in a 3 or more V 1 fight I'm probably gonna die

Minno

So if RD is to be changed what changes do you want seen? Reduce range won't change that its spammed in zergs. Making it match other executes reduces the unique characteristics of the skill. I'll give my personal recommendation at the end of this synopsis.

Here's my rundown on what RD is, how it's personally used in PvP, and the unique position it holds with Templars:

- Dawn's Wrath, as per design intent, is the defacto ranged DPS tree for Templars. Most of the dps spells hold a 28 meter range, RD included.
- RD exists in two morphs. One that adds 20% bonus damage based on a percentage of one's resource pool. And the other heals based on the dmg done. They both do increased dmg based on targets remaining health with the tooltip percentage being achieved at like 1% health.
- Radiant Oppression, bonus dmg morph, is calculated at the start of the channel. This procs only at the begining (similar to how vamp drain adds more health to the regen if you pop it at low health). So if you have 50% Magicka, youll only get 10% bonus dmg.
- Randiant glory just adds health regen based on the dmg done. It won't save you from burst, but it will help add healing where you are doing execute phase (to help Templars top off their bars or keep themselves on offense often.)
- as a channel the skills have lots of counters but it's strength is the ability to not be dodged. But you are locked out of light attack weaving. This forces the spell to be used at the right time as an execute in PvP.
- asayre calculated, the best time to use this spell is at 40% health. This was calculated on a boss where after major breach was applied, was at 17k armor. This also assumed 100 elemental expert, 40ish in elfborn and 6 spell erosion using juliannos and thief stone. And it was in PvE.
- In PvP most people would have more spell erosion instead of elfborn (probably 2:1 ratio).
- the spell does not double dip between thaumaturge and elemental expert. It's dmg is based very strongly on low health.
- you achieve the best dmg between 1-40%. At 40% most players are able to bring themselves away in 1v1. In 1vx, and this goes for any execute, I'll have 2 beams hitting me doing minimal dmg but once I'm hit with a snipe those beams becomes deadly but I have 33k spell resistance, class purge, and keep heals on me saving blocks for snipes.
- if you have 33k+ spell resistance, you can negate the effects of magicka penetration entirely. As RD is Magicka based, and using the most extreme example, I have 37% mitigation. On its own, if RD hits me at 9000 over 2.8 seconds tooltip (using asayres tooltip dmg number of 18k). So initial tick is 3214 dmg add 20% would make it 3856. If I use my tiny Blazing shield, I'll have 856 spill dmg. With my current armor raiting, I'll reduce it to 538 dmg. That's without calculating my CP mitigation. If I use block, the dmg is now 242. Most builds can heal for more than 200 (vigor can hot for 1k...) This assumes initial tick.

Most builds go for pure damage, and with that don't utilize the full spectrum of dmg mitigation available. Stam users use block or dodge roll, ignoring shields. Dodge is the best mitigation available (20% to ignore a skill entirely and stacks with dodge roll which negates spells 100% of the roll time.). But channels directly challenge this and there are few direct dmg channels that can compare to the instant cast stam abilities.

At most a Magicka Templar can probably gain 5280+base+ another 3000 in CP = 8380. If most people have 18k-20k spell resistance, your looking at a 10% dmg mitigation based on your armor alone. If you block you get 50% mitigation base, and shields take the full dmg uncritical with the remaining dmg being mitigated. This is why Templars tell you use a shield/block/heal. You reduce the damage, force it to "spill", and have a healing/hot help you keep the health bonus from adding additional dmg. You shouldn't rely on one dmg mitigation in cyro, and I hope RD doesn't change in how it counters dodge roll.

Conclusion:
- more spells should do high damage but as a channel to actively negate elude as a passive primary defense. Or remove dodge chance from elude (give it increased crit resistance similar to immovable with major ward. Scale down impen to compensate)
- RD, if reduced to only an execute that's dodgeable, should have another skill dedicated to ignoring dodge. Dark flare 's secondary morph should be a direct range spell, remove its empower, keep the initial dmg, no travel long overhead traveltime but should never be reflected or dodged. (every Magicka class should have access to one spell that's a "spamable" channel")
- pure dmg builds should review their defense. We are in a high dmg high risk meta with risk being you should die if you don't slot some armor.
- add objectives/things to promote less zerging in cyro (only way to combat zergs inflating skill dmg balance). Scale cyro to balance for 4-12 man teams, not solo/faction zergs.

Thoughts?

CompactVirus

Sword and board - Absorb magic. Let that RD heal you to full health? Do that and watch a non skilled magplar freak out.

I play magplar and stam sorc in PVP mainly. It is horrible when RD from 3 or more people locks on but I don't think it should be nerfed. The only tweak I can imagine which wouldn't ruin the class compared to stam builds is potentially removing the option of a damage tick before the beam connects unless the target is below 25% health.

If they nerf RD to below 25% and as some people suggest, they should do the same to executioner but make it less likely to be dodged.

Just my opinion

Minno

CompactVirus wrote: »

Sword and board - Absorb magic. Let that RD heal you to full health? Do that and watch a non skilled magplar freak out.

I play magplar and stam sorc in PVP mainly. It is horrible when RD from 3 or more people locks on but I don't think it should be nerfed. The only tweak I can imagine which wouldn't ruin the class compared to stam builds is potentially removing the option of a damage tick before the beam connects unless the target is below 25% health.

If they nerf RD to below 25% and as some people suggest, they should do the same to executioner but make it less likely to be dodged.

Just my opinion

If RD is changed to match other executes, I think it's important to keep a high dmg, undodgable spell available to players. To directly counter passive dodge chance, a player should have a skill that can connect to provide dps (if zos does not nerf elude). Channels help give that skill a risk factor; I want dark flare secondary morph changed to be this skill for Templars.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

The only reasonable change is to make it impossible to dodge any executes.

Minno

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

The only reasonable change is to make it impossible to dodge any executes.

Could be interesting:
- make all executes channels. High dmg scaled on health loss ticks. Now they are undodgable. Aligns with high risk high reward.
- or only NB/sorc have access to instant executes (one can be light attacked weaved as a unique, and the other does extra lighting dmg as a unique) but can be dodged.
- all executes can be blocked.

Stoopid_Nwah

Minno wrote: »

So if RD is to be changed what changes do you want seen? Reduce range won't change that its spammed in zergs. Making it match other executes reduces the unique characteristics of the skill. I'll give my personal recommendation at the end of this synopsis.

Here's my rundown on what RD is, how it's personally used in PvP, and the unique position it holds with Templars:

- Dawn's Wrath, as per design intent, is the defacto ranged DPS tree for Templars. Most of the dps spells hold a 28 meter range, RD included.
- RD exists in two morphs. One that adds 20% bonus damage based on a percentage of one's resource pool. And the other heals based on the dmg done. They both do increased dmg based on targets remaining health with the tooltip percentage being achieved at like 1% health.
- Radiant Oppression, bonus dmg morph, is calculated at the start of the channel. This procs only at the begining (similar to how vamp drain adds more health to the regen if you pop it at low health). So if you have 50% Magicka, youll only get 10% bonus dmg.
- Randiant glory just adds health regen based on the dmg done. It won't save you from burst, but it will help add healing where you are doing execute phase (to help Templars top off their bars or keep themselves on offense often.)
- as a channel the skills have lots of counters but it's strength is the ability to not be dodged. But you are locked out of light attack weaving. This forces the spell to be used at the right time as an execute in PvP.
- asayre calculated, the best time to use this spell is at 40% health. This was calculated on a boss where after major breach was applied, was at 17k armor. This also assumed 100 elemental expert, 40ish in elfborn and 6 spell erosion using juliannos and thief stone. And it was in PvE.
- In PvP most people would have more spell erosion instead of elfborn (probably 2:1 ratio).
- the spell does not double dip between thaumaturge and elemental expert. It's dmg is based very strongly on low health.
- you achieve the best dmg between 1-40%. At 40% most players are able to bring themselves away in 1v1. In 1vx, and this goes for any execute, I'll have 2 beams hitting me doing minimal dmg but once I'm hit with a snipe those beams becomes deadly but I have 33k spell resistance, class purge, and keep heals on me saving blocks for snipes.
- if you have 33k+ spell resistance, you can negate the effects of magicka penetration entirely. As RD is Magicka based, and using the most extreme example, I have 37% mitigation. On its own, if RD hits me at 9000 over 2.8 seconds tooltip (using asayres tooltip dmg number of 18k). So initial tick is 3214 dmg add 20% would make it 3856. If I use my tiny Blazing shield, I'll have 856 spill dmg. With my current armor raiting, I'll reduce it to 538 dmg. That's without calculating my CP mitigation. If I use block, the dmg is now 242. Most builds can heal for more than 200 (vigor can hot for 1k...) This assumes initial tick.

Most builds go for pure damage, and with that don't utilize the full spectrum of dmg mitigation available. Stam users use block or dodge roll, ignoring shields. Dodge is the best mitigation available (20% to ignore a skill entirely and stacks with dodge roll which negates spells 100% of the roll time.). But channels directly challenge this and there are few direct dmg channels that can compare to the instant cast stam abilities.

At most a Magicka Templar can probably gain 5280+base+ another 3000 in CP = 8380. If most people have 18k-20k spell resistance, your looking at a 10% dmg mitigation based on your armor alone. If you block you get 50% mitigation base, and shields take the full dmg uncritical with the remaining dmg being mitigated. This is why Templars tell you use a shield/block/heal. You reduce the damage, force it to "spill", and have a healing/hot help you keep the health bonus from adding additional dmg. You shouldn't rely on one dmg mitigation in cyro, and I hope RD doesn't change in how it counters dodge roll.

Conclusion:
- more spells should do high damage but as a channel to actively negate elude as a passive primary defense. Or remove dodge chance from elude (give it increased crit resistance similar to immovable with major ward. Scale down impen to compensate)
- RD, if reduced to only an execute that's dodgeable, should have another skill dedicated to ignoring dodge. Dark flare 's secondary morph should be a direct range spell, remove its empower, keep the initial dmg, no travel long overhead traveltime but should never be reflected or dodged. (every Magicka class should have access to one spell that's a "spamable" channel")
- pure dmg builds should review their defense. We are in a high dmg high risk meta with risk being you should die if you don't slot some armor.
- add objectives/things to promote less zerging in cyro (only way to combat zergs inflating skill dmg balance). Scale cyro to balance for 4-12 man teams, not solo/faction zergs.

Thoughts?

Good write up. As for your conclusions: I agree if major evasion is here to stay, there should be more channel-based options. Maybe something in the mage's guild line? And yes, thinking of sorcs, it would be nice if everyone had a usable channel. Of course, my favourite solution here is to get rid of major evasion in PVP. In PVE I definitely think it should stay.

It would be nice if there was something to tone down how high damage is in this game. Make health useful. I wonder what could help with that...hmm...#softcaps.

This would be awesome, but I feel like those 4-12 man groups would just run side by side lol. And since pvp was promoted as some huge AvA warzone, I really don't see much happening, but there is one thing that may help here...#removeaoecaps.

Also, can you post a quick video @Drdeath20? I have spent 99% of my time in Cyrodiil as magicka characters that never struggled with RD so I have never needed to "air bash". If this is the case, then I would assume it is a lesser known counter and making it more widely known would probably change a lot of opinions. I know I personally would say that no nerfs at all are needed for RD then.

Apherius

Templra defend their RD , and other peoples want the Nerf of the RD . stop guys , you can't convince a Templar than his Finisher need a nerf of cast or should be dodgeable ect ....

Drdeath20

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

So if RD is to be changed what changes do you want seen? Reduce range won't change that its spammed in zergs. Making it match other executes reduces the unique characteristics of the skill. I'll give my personal recommendation at the end of this synopsis.

Here's my rundown on what RD is, how it's personally used in PvP, and the unique position it holds with Templars:

- Dawn's Wrath, as per design intent, is the defacto ranged DPS tree for Templars. Most of the dps spells hold a 28 meter range, RD included.
- RD exists in two morphs. One that adds 20% bonus damage based on a percentage of one's resource pool. And the other heals based on the dmg done. They both do increased dmg based on targets remaining health with the tooltip percentage being achieved at like 1% health.
- Radiant Oppression, bonus dmg morph, is calculated at the start of the channel. This procs only at the begining (similar to how vamp drain adds more health to the regen if you pop it at low health). So if you have 50% Magicka, youll only get 10% bonus dmg.
- Randiant glory just adds health regen based on the dmg done. It won't save you from burst, but it will help add healing where you are doing execute phase (to help Templars top off their bars or keep themselves on offense often.)
- as a channel the skills have lots of counters but it's strength is the ability to not be dodged. But you are locked out of light attack weaving. This forces the spell to be used at the right time as an execute in PvP.
- asayre calculated, the best time to use this spell is at 40% health. This was calculated on a boss where after major breach was applied, was at 17k armor. This also assumed 100 elemental expert, 40ish in elfborn and 6 spell erosion using juliannos and thief stone. And it was in PvE.
- In PvP most people would have more spell erosion instead of elfborn (probably 2:1 ratio).
- the spell does not double dip between thaumaturge and elemental expert. It's dmg is based very strongly on low health.
- you achieve the best dmg between 1-40%. At 40% most players are able to bring themselves away in 1v1. In 1vx, and this goes for any execute, I'll have 2 beams hitting me doing minimal dmg but once I'm hit with a snipe those beams becomes deadly but I have 33k spell resistance, class purge, and keep heals on me saving blocks for snipes.
- if you have 33k+ spell resistance, you can negate the effects of magicka penetration entirely. As RD is Magicka based, and using the most extreme example, I have 37% mitigation. On its own, if RD hits me at 9000 over 2.8 seconds tooltip (using asayres tooltip dmg number of 18k). So initial tick is 3214 dmg add 20% would make it 3856. If I use my tiny Blazing shield, I'll have 856 spill dmg. With my current armor raiting, I'll reduce it to 538 dmg. That's without calculating my CP mitigation. If I use block, the dmg is now 242. Most builds can heal for more than 200 (vigor can hot for 1k...) This assumes initial tick.

Most builds go for pure damage, and with that don't utilize the full spectrum of dmg mitigation available. Stam users use block or dodge roll, ignoring shields. Dodge is the best mitigation available (20% to ignore a skill entirely and stacks with dodge roll which negates spells 100% of the roll time.). But channels directly challenge this and there are few direct dmg channels that can compare to the instant cast stam abilities.

At most a Magicka Templar can probably gain 5280+base+ another 3000 in CP = 8380. If most people have 18k-20k spell resistance, your looking at a 10% dmg mitigation based on your armor alone. If you block you get 50% mitigation base, and shields take the full dmg uncritical with the remaining dmg being mitigated. This is why Templars tell you use a shield/block/heal. You reduce the damage, force it to "spill", and have a healing/hot help you keep the health bonus from adding additional dmg. You shouldn't rely on one dmg mitigation in cyro, and I hope RD doesn't change in how it counters dodge roll.

Conclusion:
- more spells should do high damage but as a channel to actively negate elude as a passive primary defense. Or remove dodge chance from elude (give it increased crit resistance similar to immovable with major ward. Scale down impen to compensate)
- RD, if reduced to only an execute that's dodgeable, should have another skill dedicated to ignoring dodge. Dark flare 's secondary morph should be a direct range spell, remove its empower, keep the initial dmg, no travel long overhead traveltime but should never be reflected or dodged. (every Magicka class should have access to one spell that's a "spamable" channel")
- pure dmg builds should review their defense. We are in a high dmg high risk meta with risk being you should die if you don't slot some armor.
- add objectives/things to promote less zerging in cyro (only way to combat zergs inflating skill dmg balance). Scale cyro to balance for 4-12 man teams, not solo/faction zergs.

Thoughts?

Good write up. As for your conclusions: I agree if major evasion is here to stay, there should be more channel-based options. Maybe something in the mage's guild line? And yes, thinking of sorcs, it would be nice if everyone had a usable channel. Of course, my favourite solution here is to get rid of major evasion in PVP. In PVE I definitely think it should stay.

It would be nice if there was something to tone down how high damage is in this game. Make health useful. I wonder what could help with that...hmm...#softcaps.

This would be awesome, but I feel like those 4-12 man groups would just run side by side lol. And since pvp was promoted as some huge AvA warzone, I really don't see much happening, but there is one thing that may help here...#removeaoecaps.

Also, can you post a quick video @Drdeath20? I have spent 99% of my time in Cyrodiil as magicka characters that never struggled with RD so I have never needed to "air bash". If this is the case, then I would assume it is a lesser known counter and making it more widely known would probably change a lot of opinions. I know I personally would say that no nerfs at all are needed for RD then.

I don't even know how to post pictures let alone videos. Just do it next time you play. I've done it hundreds of times. Every time I get beamed. I bash and that breaks the channel.

Minno

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

So if RD is to be changed what changes do you want seen? Reduce range won't change that its spammed in zergs. Making it match other executes reduces the unique characteristics of the skill. I'll give my personal recommendation at the end of this synopsis.

Here's my rundown on what RD is, how it's personally used in PvP, and the unique position it holds with Templars:

- Dawn's Wrath, as per design intent, is the defacto ranged DPS tree for Templars. Most of the dps spells hold a 28 meter range, RD included.
- RD exists in two morphs. One that adds 20% bonus damage based on a percentage of one's resource pool. And the other heals based on the dmg done. They both do increased dmg based on targets remaining health with the tooltip percentage being achieved at like 1% health.
- Radiant Oppression, bonus dmg morph, is calculated at the start of the channel. This procs only at the begining (similar to how vamp drain adds more health to the regen if you pop it at low health). So if you have 50% Magicka, youll only get 10% bonus dmg.
- Randiant glory just adds health regen based on the dmg done. It won't save you from burst, but it will help add healing where you are doing execute phase (to help Templars top off their bars or keep themselves on offense often.)
- as a channel the skills have lots of counters but it's strength is the ability to not be dodged. But you are locked out of light attack weaving. This forces the spell to be used at the right time as an execute in PvP.
- asayre calculated, the best time to use this spell is at 40% health. This was calculated on a boss where after major breach was applied, was at 17k armor. This also assumed 100 elemental expert, 40ish in elfborn and 6 spell erosion using juliannos and thief stone. And it was in PvE.
- In PvP most people would have more spell erosion instead of elfborn (probably 2:1 ratio).
- the spell does not double dip between thaumaturge and elemental expert. It's dmg is based very strongly on low health.
- you achieve the best dmg between 1-40%. At 40% most players are able to bring themselves away in 1v1. In 1vx, and this goes for any execute, I'll have 2 beams hitting me doing minimal dmg but once I'm hit with a snipe those beams becomes deadly but I have 33k spell resistance, class purge, and keep heals on me saving blocks for snipes.
- if you have 33k+ spell resistance, you can negate the effects of magicka penetration entirely. As RD is Magicka based, and using the most extreme example, I have 37% mitigation. On its own, if RD hits me at 9000 over 2.8 seconds tooltip (using asayres tooltip dmg number of 18k). So initial tick is 3214 dmg add 20% would make it 3856. If I use my tiny Blazing shield, I'll have 856 spill dmg. With my current armor raiting, I'll reduce it to 538 dmg. That's without calculating my CP mitigation. If I use block, the dmg is now 242. Most builds can heal for more than 200 (vigor can hot for 1k...) This assumes initial tick.

Most builds go for pure damage, and with that don't utilize the full spectrum of dmg mitigation available. Stam users use block or dodge roll, ignoring shields. Dodge is the best mitigation available (20% to ignore a skill entirely and stacks with dodge roll which negates spells 100% of the roll time.). But channels directly challenge this and there are few direct dmg channels that can compare to the instant cast stam abilities.

At most a Magicka Templar can probably gain 5280+base+ another 3000 in CP = 8380. If most people have 18k-20k spell resistance, your looking at a 10% dmg mitigation based on your armor alone. If you block you get 50% mitigation base, and shields take the full dmg uncritical with the remaining dmg being mitigated. This is why Templars tell you use a shield/block/heal. You reduce the damage, force it to "spill", and have a healing/hot help you keep the health bonus from adding additional dmg. You shouldn't rely on one dmg mitigation in cyro, and I hope RD doesn't change in how it counters dodge roll.

Conclusion:
- more spells should do high damage but as a channel to actively negate elude as a passive primary defense. Or remove dodge chance from elude (give it increased crit resistance similar to immovable with major ward. Scale down impen to compensate)
- RD, if reduced to only an execute that's dodgeable, should have another skill dedicated to ignoring dodge. Dark flare 's secondary morph should be a direct range spell, remove its empower, keep the initial dmg, no travel long overhead traveltime but should never be reflected or dodged. (every Magicka class should have access to one spell that's a "spamable" channel")
- pure dmg builds should review their defense. We are in a high dmg high risk meta with risk being you should die if you don't slot some armor.
- add objectives/things to promote less zerging in cyro (only way to combat zergs inflating skill dmg balance). Scale cyro to balance for 4-12 man teams, not solo/faction zergs.

Thoughts?

Good write up. As for your conclusions: I agree if major evasion is here to stay, there should be more channel-based options. Maybe something in the mage's guild line? And yes, thinking of sorcs, it would be nice if everyone had a usable channel. Of course, my favourite solution here is to get rid of major evasion in PVP. In PVE I definitely think it should stay.

It would be nice if there was something to tone down how high damage is in this game. Make health useful. I wonder what could help with that...hmm...#softcaps.

This would be awesome, but I feel like those 4-12 man groups would just run side by side lol. And since pvp was promoted as some huge AvA warzone, I really don't see much happening, but there is one thing that may help here...#removeaoecaps.

Also, can you post a quick video @Drdeath20? I have spent 99% of my time in Cyrodiil as magicka characters that never struggled with RD so I have never needed to "air bash". If this is the case, then I would assume it is a lesser known counter and making it more widely known would probably change a lot of opinions. I know I personally would say that no nerfs at all are needed for RD then.

I don't even know how to post pictures let alone videos. Just do it next time you play. I've done it hundreds of times. Every time I get beamed. I bash and that breaks the channel.

Wait you bash at range and the beam disappears?
Lol love the bugs in this game, if that's true.

Stoopid_Nwah

Minno wrote: »

Wait you bash at range and the beam disappears?
Lol love the bugs in this game, if that's true.

That's why I'm trying to get someone to post videos lol. If this is true and working as intended then there is no way RD needs any nerf. But if it's a bug, then I do still lean towards putting in a slight range nerf (or as others have mentioned get rid of reach as a blanket nerf).

@Drdeath20 I would but I am a ganker, I lurk in the shadows and haven't been hit with a beam since I started out on that path lol, but I'll jump on a different character and grab a templar friend later today to test this out. I'm very curious if this works or if it's a bug that only works on PC or something.

Minno

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Wait you bash at range and the beam disappears?
Lol love the bugs in this game, if that's true.

That's why I'm trying to get someone to post videos lol. If this is true and working as intended then there is no way RD needs any nerf. But if it's a bug, then I do still lean towards putting in a slight range nerf (or as others have mentioned get rid of reach as a blanket nerf).

@Drdeath20 I would but I am a ganker, I lurk in the shadows and haven't been hit with a beam since I started out on that path lol, but I'll jump on a different character and grab a templar friend later today to test this out. I'm very curious if this works or if it's a bug that only works on PC or something.

If bash is doing that at range, zos will nerf that first lol

Drdeath20

Minno wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

So if RD is to be changed what changes do you want seen? Reduce range won't change that its spammed in zergs. Making it match other executes reduces the unique characteristics of the skill. I'll give my personal recommendation at the end of this synopsis.

Here's my rundown on what RD is, how it's personally used in PvP, and the unique position it holds with Templars:

- Dawn's Wrath, as per design intent, is the defacto ranged DPS tree for Templars. Most of the dps spells hold a 28 meter range, RD included.
- RD exists in two morphs. One that adds 20% bonus damage based on a percentage of one's resource pool. And the other heals based on the dmg done. They both do increased dmg based on targets remaining health with the tooltip percentage being achieved at like 1% health.
- Radiant Oppression, bonus dmg morph, is calculated at the start of the channel. This procs only at the begining (similar to how vamp drain adds more health to the regen if you pop it at low health). So if you have 50% Magicka, youll only get 10% bonus dmg.
- Randiant glory just adds health regen based on the dmg done. It won't save you from burst, but it will help add healing where you are doing execute phase (to help Templars top off their bars or keep themselves on offense often.)
- as a channel the skills have lots of counters but it's strength is the ability to not be dodged. But you are locked out of light attack weaving. This forces the spell to be used at the right time as an execute in PvP.
- asayre calculated, the best time to use this spell is at 40% health. This was calculated on a boss where after major breach was applied, was at 17k armor. This also assumed 100 elemental expert, 40ish in elfborn and 6 spell erosion using juliannos and thief stone. And it was in PvE.
- In PvP most people would have more spell erosion instead of elfborn (probably 2:1 ratio).
- the spell does not double dip between thaumaturge and elemental expert. It's dmg is based very strongly on low health.
- you achieve the best dmg between 1-40%. At 40% most players are able to bring themselves away in 1v1. In 1vx, and this goes for any execute, I'll have 2 beams hitting me doing minimal dmg but once I'm hit with a snipe those beams becomes deadly but I have 33k spell resistance, class purge, and keep heals on me saving blocks for snipes.
- if you have 33k+ spell resistance, you can negate the effects of magicka penetration entirely. As RD is Magicka based, and using the most extreme example, I have 37% mitigation. On its own, if RD hits me at 9000 over 2.8 seconds tooltip (using asayres tooltip dmg number of 18k). So initial tick is 3214 dmg add 20% would make it 3856. If I use my tiny Blazing shield, I'll have 856 spill dmg. With my current armor raiting, I'll reduce it to 538 dmg. That's without calculating my CP mitigation. If I use block, the dmg is now 242. Most builds can heal for more than 200 (vigor can hot for 1k...) This assumes initial tick.

Most builds go for pure damage, and with that don't utilize the full spectrum of dmg mitigation available. Stam users use block or dodge roll, ignoring shields. Dodge is the best mitigation available (20% to ignore a skill entirely and stacks with dodge roll which negates spells 100% of the roll time.). But channels directly challenge this and there are few direct dmg channels that can compare to the instant cast stam abilities.

At most a Magicka Templar can probably gain 5280+base+ another 3000 in CP = 8380. If most people have 18k-20k spell resistance, your looking at a 10% dmg mitigation based on your armor alone. If you block you get 50% mitigation base, and shields take the full dmg uncritical with the remaining dmg being mitigated. This is why Templars tell you use a shield/block/heal. You reduce the damage, force it to "spill", and have a healing/hot help you keep the health bonus from adding additional dmg. You shouldn't rely on one dmg mitigation in cyro, and I hope RD doesn't change in how it counters dodge roll.

Conclusion:
- more spells should do high damage but as a channel to actively negate elude as a passive primary defense. Or remove dodge chance from elude (give it increased crit resistance similar to immovable with major ward. Scale down impen to compensate)
- RD, if reduced to only an execute that's dodgeable, should have another skill dedicated to ignoring dodge. Dark flare 's secondary morph should be a direct range spell, remove its empower, keep the initial dmg, no travel long overhead traveltime but should never be reflected or dodged. (every Magicka class should have access to one spell that's a "spamable" channel")
- pure dmg builds should review their defense. We are in a high dmg high risk meta with risk being you should die if you don't slot some armor.
- add objectives/things to promote less zerging in cyro (only way to combat zergs inflating skill dmg balance). Scale cyro to balance for 4-12 man teams, not solo/faction zergs.

Thoughts?

Good write up. As for your conclusions: I agree if major evasion is here to stay, there should be more channel-based options. Maybe something in the mage's guild line? And yes, thinking of sorcs, it would be nice if everyone had a usable channel. Of course, my favourite solution here is to get rid of major evasion in PVP. In PVE I definitely think it should stay.

It would be nice if there was something to tone down how high damage is in this game. Make health useful. I wonder what could help with that...hmm...#softcaps.

This would be awesome, but I feel like those 4-12 man groups would just run side by side lol. And since pvp was promoted as some huge AvA warzone, I really don't see much happening, but there is one thing that may help here...#removeaoecaps.

Also, can you post a quick video @Drdeath20? I have spent 99% of my time in Cyrodiil as magicka characters that never struggled with RD so I have never needed to "air bash". If this is the case, then I would assume it is a lesser known counter and making it more widely known would probably change a lot of opinions. I know I personally would say that no nerfs at all are needed for RD then.

I don't even know how to post pictures let alone videos. Just do it next time you play. I've done it hundreds of times. Every time I get beamed. I bash and that breaks the channel.

Wait you bash at range and the beam disappears?
Lol love the bugs in this game, if that's true.

Yes I bash as soon as the beam is applied on me. The only damage is the initial tick. I don't think it's a bug. Radiant is really strong on shuffle stacking dodge rollers who are outnumbered. Other templars try spamming it on me and I bash it off a few times gap close and use my sweeps to heal up and do damage. then use a spear take down before they can heal and finish them off with radiant while their health is low. Teabag and lolz soon follow.

Drdeath20

Minno wrote: »

Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Wait you bash at range and the beam disappears?
Lol love the bugs in this game, if that's true.

That's why I'm trying to get someone to post videos lol. If this is true and working as intended then there is no way RD needs any nerf. But if it's a bug, then I do still lean towards putting in a slight range nerf (or as others have mentioned get rid of reach as a blanket nerf).

@Drdeath20 I would but I am a ganker, I lurk in the shadows and haven't been hit with a beam since I started out on that path lol, but I'll jump on a different character and grab a templar friend later today to test this out. I'm very curious if this works or if it's a bug that only works on PC or something.

If bash is doing that at range, zos will nerf that first lol

Maybe it's part of the game. Could be why their is an initial tic.

loyalhabsfan

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

loyalhabsfan wrote: »

So if I post the video of me fighting a stam dk at around 50% health and getting a 25k ONE tick Radiant Destruction from a cp250 magplar, you're going to say that's not OP?

I don't have to say anything RD for me as a Ranged Based Templar is rarely used to secure PC kills unless they are just being "absent minded" at the time and allow me to cast the full beam uninterrupted. I don't use Sweeps I'm a range dps/ healer hybrid Magplar. Most of my kills are secured by Reflecting light and when they start to do their whole monkey routine away from me in execute range that's when I go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4b_RRAavJA . Other then that if you faced my Max Level Templar you know it's not my RD you have to worry about but how I set you up like a puppet and I'm the puppet master with the exception of the select few players that can kill me with 5 or 6 attacks in less then 2, 3 seconds max.

The main reason I am defending RD is not only because it's not a balance issue, but a L2P issue. But because if we Magicka based players do not speak up as we didn't in the past, ZOS would just hear the cries of near God Easy Mode Stamina Based players and we would once again as per mDK, as per mNB, as per mSorc, and now mTemp in the their cross-hairs to finish their road to ultimate and unchallenged Stamina Supremacy. All the while they can soak up more damage then most actually tank builds with dodge and Shuffle, while at the same time killing players with over 30k spell and physical resistance with 2k or more critical resistance in less the 2, 3 seconds max. Yet they are crying nerf to a class that has to play them like a chess match to secure the kill against them.

You're wrong, still. But. Okay.

Lord-Otto

Meanwhile, my Mage's Fury, that starts activating at frikkin' 20% health, fails to kill people if they are built defensive enough. While it has no meaningful morph for pvP whatsoever, can be dodged, doesn't "paint" a target so you can LoS out of danger, and can't be used as a dps skill (temps even have class dps, lol).
Nah, RD is sooo fine!
d(>_<)

Executions need to f***ing start scaling at 25% health. Not 15, not 50.
25!
This includes ridiculous Executioner, by the way. They also need to be undodgeable in general, not only RD.
If that's given, RD can even keep its range, that would be only fair considering Fury and Poison Injection/Snipe.

But I'm sure the clever heads at ZOS are already working on a genius balancing patch to be released... soon (TM). (^_-)

Drdeath20

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Meanwhile, my Mage's Fury, that starts activating at frikkin' 20% health, fails to kill people if they are built defensive enough. While it has no meaningful morph for pvP whatsoever, can be dodged, doesn't "paint" a target so you can LoS out of danger, and can't be used as a dps skill (temps even have class dps, lol).
Nah, RD is sooo fine!
d(>_<)

Executions need to f***ing start scaling at 25% health. Not 15, not 50.
25!
This includes ridiculous Executioner, by the way. They also need to be undodgeable in general, not only RD.
If that's given, RD can even keep its range, that would be only fair considering Fury and Poison Injection/Snipe.

But I'm sure the clever heads at ZOS are already working on a genius balancing patch to be released... soon (TM). (^_-)

Radiant can be bashed off from a distance

FearlessOne_2014

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

The only reasonable change is to make it impossible to dodge any executes.

This I can completely get behind instead of what most have been spewing out here.

Minno

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Meanwhile, my Mage's Fury, that starts activating at frikkin' 20% health, fails to kill people if they are built defensive enough. While it has no meaningful morph for pvP whatsoever, can be dodged, doesn't "paint" a target so you can LoS out of danger, and can't be used as a dps skill (temps even have class dps, lol).
Nah, RD is sooo fine!
d(>_<)

Executions need to f***ing start scaling at 25% health. Not 15, not 50.
25!
This includes ridiculous Executioner, by the way. They also need to be undodgeable in general, not only RD.
If that's given, RD can even keep its range, that would be only fair considering Fury and Poison Injection/Snipe.

But I'm sure the clever heads at ZOS are already working on a genius balancing patch to be released... soon (TM). (^_-)

Radiant can be bashed off from a distance

Lol love this game sometimes.