why hasn't radiant destruction been nerfed yet?...

Paneross

Nerf stamina please

WreckfulAbandon

Stamina nerf pls

Lord-Otto

Buff magicka, please?

worsttankever

itzeffect wrote: »

really, it's stupid. I Don't ask for damage nerfed just let people fkn dodge it. I am tired of ninja templars always there to seal the deal on my death if i drop to 30% -_-

Radiant Destruction is in my toolkit because it is undodgeable. Enemy I'm chasing or that runs through me and a group seemingly has dodge/evasion up the whole time and can't be cc'ed. With Radiant Destruction, at least I have something to contribute.

With my Stamina DK, I would gap close with Critical Charge, spam Talons/Fossilize, start weaving in Wrecking Blows, and have the stamina to give chase. Not so with my magicka Templar.

Playnice

I think RD is fine. It's in a good place right now. Also there are plenty of ways to counter it: crushing shock, bash, fear, cloak, any knockback skill, any stun skill and probably more! Magplar isn't even the best burst spec, why are there still threads on RD? LOL git gud and learn to counter your opponents.

Toast_STS

Give it the streak treatment. Cost increase if cast again within 4 seconds on an enemy player.

MalakithAlamahdi

Toast_STS wrote: »

Give it the streak treatment. Cost increase if cast again within 4 seconds on an enemy player.

No.

Edgar_Baerland

I don't know if this has been said, but just so we're clear...

RD is the strongest taunt in the game. I main a magicka templar, and I feel like I'm invisible until I RD in teamfights. Then suddenly I'm getting charged down by 1-4 melee dudes and I have to hit the ohshit button and GTFO of dodge or die. Believe me, it's like clockwork. You're standing there vulnerable, shining like the sun saying "hey stam dude, come kick the *** out of me while I channel!"

If you're bitching about getting RD'ed in zergs or huge pitched battles, I have nothing to say to you. OR if you jump on 5 people and get killed by RD, you didn't get killed by RD. You got killed because you jumped on 5 people.

It's so *** hard just to TARGET THE RIGHT PLAYER WITH RD IN A MOB. I don't use it unless I'm fighting a specific target because chances are I'll shoot some 95% health guy and do nothing and make myself a huge shining target. Furthermore, THE TEMPLARS ON YOUR ALLIANCE HAVE RD TOO AND THEY ARE EXECUTING YOUR ENEMIES.

Every class has strengths and weaknesses. RD is straw that stirs the drink for templars who want to do anything but heal. Take it away and templars just become jabs-bots forever. The only other ranged skill that hits hard is Dark Flare and it's a channeled easily dodgeable or reflectable mortar shot that's totally useless in 1v1+. WITH RD however, a plethora of different ranged builds are possible. The class has real combos and can actually burst sometimes.

Stop complaining about RD. It's ridiculous. Good players I fight have no problems with RD unless I've stunned them at low health. But it's a freaking execute. It's supposed to execute people. If four dudes shoot it at you, sure you'll probably die. Same is true if you get hit by 4 snipes or 4 cfrags or 4 WBs or whatever pick your poison.

Stop complainsawing.

Eirella

I bet everyone asking for RD to be nerfed plays a stamina build.

Cronopoly

Jinxycat wrote: »

I bet everyone asking for RD to be nerfed plays a stamina build.

Of course, it's the ONLY magicka spell that touches them and gives pause. For Stamina there's not enough space to list all the threats of insta Stamina ability and armor set death.

Everything else Magicka across the board has a ridiculous windup timer delay, dodgeable, reflectable, gives some useless bonus to a stat pool, or spell damage by again delayed dots or the "obvious" get outta the red or white incoming circle.

FearlessOne_2014

Cronopoly wrote: »

Jinxycat wrote: »

I bet everyone asking for RD to be nerfed plays a stamina build.

Of course, it's the ONLY magicka spell that touches them and gives pause. For Stamina there's not enough space to list all the threats of insta Stamina ability and armor set death.

Everything else Magicka across the board has a ridiculous windup timer delay, dodgeable, reflectable, gives some useless bonus to a stat pool, or spell damage by again delayed dots or the "obvious" get outta the red or white incoming circle.

I know right lol. They will not be happy until ZOS just deletes all of the Magicka abilities in the game. On a more serious note, I bet over %80 or more of these guys crying for RD nerfs are just trolling to get a rise out of the last of the Magicka community. The rest of them just have some serious L2P and Get Gud issues, and need more in game practice instead of running to the forums when a magicka ability can actually kill them. I bet most of them actually believe that only Stamina abilities should be able to do more then 120000 dps, and Magicka abilities should only do 1dps.

I got news for you Stamina players that like to roll dodge and kill magicka users with light attacks and gear procs. If you are fighting one of my Magplars and start the whole *** bad routine then be prepared because...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyuNidSrVik

If this happens and you decides to send me hate mail after failing to gank me from stealth. You will go on my new wall on my youtube channel.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

I killed a bunch of people with RD tonight, and died to it exactly once. Meanwhile every time a stam build got within 5 feet of me ... BAM ... dizzying swing for 10,000+ damage. But yeah, that's totally skill!

Truth, RD is the best skill in the game, but about the next dozen are all stamina skills. The ONLY thing balancing Cyrodiil is Radiant Destruction.

So do you really want to know why it hasn't been nerfed yet? Because it's doing it's rock-paper-scissor job.

sirrmattus

I think they should just nerf the range to 10 meters. Not much longer than jabs wich is main source of damage

sirrmattus

Koolio wrote: »

itzeffect wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

No, Radiant is intended to be a counter to dodge mechanics. Learn to block, purge, LOS, bash, or CC. You can literally negate it with every single mitigation mechanic in the game except dodge. Working as intended. I'm sorry to be that guy, but L2P.

are you for real?... have you ever fought more than one person at a time? also can't bash from 15 meteres away

If magic Crushing Shock
If stamina Venom Arrow
Problems solved.

And if magic dk?


Oh wait no one gives a *** about mDK.

Stoopid_Nwah

sirrmattus wrote: »

I think they should just nerf the range to 10 meters. Not much longer than jabs wich is main source of damage

Tried going there, got very few responses aside from a select few. At least one templar agreed this range nerf wouldn't affect them because they're in melee range with sweeps anyway. Imagine if mdks (mostly melee, even though they could be ranged I guess, similar to templars) had their execute upped to such an insane range. Oh...wait...

Strider_Roshin

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I killed a bunch of people with RD tonight, and died to it exactly once. Meanwhile every time a stam build got within 5 feet of me ... BAM ... dizzying swing for 10,000+ damage. But yeah, that's totally skill!

Truth, RD is the best skill in the game, but about the next dozen are all stamina skills. The ONLY thing balancing Cyrodiil is Radiant Destruction.

So do you really want to know why it hasn't been nerfed yet? Because it's doing it's rock-paper-scissor job.

How does one get hit by a wrecking blow? It's such a slow move. I run circles around anyone that's using it.

Pandorii

BuggeX wrote: »

RD compared to other executes:

Stamina Executes are all Meele based < 8m
Stamina Executes are all dogeable
Stamina Executes are aviable for anyone (even Dks )
Stamina Executes doesnt have any special effect, its a simple high burst direct hit when below 30%


Sorcs Fury:
Debuff that will execute you at 30%
pretty low initial dmg
it acctually just execute you when it procs implosion.


Nbs Impale:
well not much to say, low initial dmg
great burst at 30%


Dks Execute

oh wait


Temps Radiant Ass

Undogeable
Its a dot, it get buffed by 2 CPs trees
its get even more buffed by your current magicka (doesn weaken it if you have less than 50% magicka so no drawback)
since the magicka is buffing the dmg, RD has also a good dmg outbut when the target is on 100%

You can't compare overall class balance by looking at just one skill, but thank you for trying to make an actual argument compared to the 'we all want RD nerfed, enough said' stuff that came before this.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I killed a bunch of people with RD tonight, and died to it exactly once. Meanwhile every time a stam build got within 5 feet of me ... BAM ... dizzying swing for 10,000+ damage. But yeah, that's totally skill!

Truth, RD is the best skill in the game, but about the next dozen are all stamina skills. The ONLY thing balancing Cyrodiil is Radiant Destruction.

So do you really want to know why it hasn't been nerfed yet? Because it's doing it's rock-paper-scissor job.

How does one get hit by a wrecking blow? It's such a slow move. I run circles around anyone that's using it.

Usually it involves me getting hit from behind, or gap closed.

Oh, and I get a maximum 2 dodge rolls before I'm out of stamina.

Stoopid_Nwah

Pandorii wrote: »

You can't compare overall class balance by looking at just one skill, but thank you for trying to make an actual argument compared to the 'we all want RD nerfed, enough said' stuff that came before this.

They did miss poison injection as well (I did earlier too, just easy to forget that one I guess) so that means not ALL stam executes are <8m range. But yes, most are.

Additionally, mages wrath and impale execute at like 24% or something, so it's actually even a bit lower.

When looking at the executes like this, radiant actually looks to be quite fair. The issue arises when you start looking at the counters to each of these-they can be dodged so gap closing to interrupt isn't an issue and los works to avoid them whereas radiant tends to go through walls, trees, and cliffs still.

I still think the main issue is that a skill needs to be slotted in order to counter radiant (aside from the cases where they are in gap closer or melee range to bash, which I don't find to be very often tbh). I don't want radiant to be dodgeable, nor do I think a nerf is needed for the damage or execute threshold. If it had a range within or at the gap-closer range, you could still CC right before execute and watch your targets melt. You can still run behind a group and pre-beam. You can still use it when using sweeps in melee range. You can still use it in pve just fine.

The arguments against this suggestion: but stam is king so don't nerf anything magicka has (yes stam is king and it sucks for magicka characters, but two wrongs do not make a right, let's work towards balance), purge/purify can get rid of radiant just fine (that works for templars, but purge is so **** expensive for other classes to slot, and it's a tossup if it will even cleanse rd if you have other dots on you), cloak works just fine (again this only works for one class and is also quite expensive for stam nbs to use), venom arrow is a ranged interrupt for stam (True, but what you'd miss out on from poison injection just to slot venom arrow for one skill seems ridiculous. Someone may bring up the whole slotting inner light to counter cloak, but to that I say there are a million other counters so it's not needed AND slotting inner light gives many additional benefits), crushing shock is a ranged magicka interrupt (works for destro sorcs, but the other classes probably don't have room to slot it just to counter radiant/may not even use a destro staff).

Of course, if the range is nerfed I do think that something should be given instead while casting RD. Maybe minor protection while channeling? Major expedition for a time after a successful channel since templars have zero mobility?

Sorry that got lengthy lol.

Lord-Otto

I'm a magicka player and also get annoyed by RD frequently.
It's not in a 1v1 situation, but with all the zerg fests going on. Being painted for prolonged periods of time by this skill from some dudes miles away means I can't afford to go below 50% health while I'm already struggling to fight that stamina dude in front of me. Mage's Wrath, for example, isn't a threat until I reach 20%, at which point I'm already probably gonna lose to the zerg. For Impale, my enemy has to get somewhat close, so I can use LoS or Streak to do something against it. But RD is just a noob execute designed to buff zergs even more.
It should start scaling at 20%, or 25% (with a stronger scaling curve), and have the range of Drain Essence. DPS would still be the same, range would be reasonable in PvE, but it would severely diminish the inevitability of losing to sheer numbers in PvP.

Minno

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I'm a magicka player and also get annoyed by RD frequently.
It's not in a 1v1 situation, but with all the zerg fests going on. Being painted for prolonged periods of time by this skill from some dudes miles away means I can't afford to go below 50% health while I'm already struggling to fight that stamina dude in front of me. Mage's Wrath, for example, isn't a threat until I reach 20%, at which point I'm already probably gonna lose to the zerg. For Impale, my enemy has to get somewhat close, so I can use LoS or Streak to do something against it. But RD is just a noob execute designed to buff zergs even more.
It should start scaling at 20%, or 25% (with a stronger scaling curve), and have the range of Drain Essence. DPS would still be the same, range would be reasonable in PvE, but it would severely diminish the inevitability of losing to sheer numbers in PvP.

Range change wouldn't work; you'd come across the zerg and be hit by every execute available regardless of range (mostly poison injection because of stam bow users).

Execute dmg would probably not change pve. You could reduce it to 30 or 25; this assumes the Templar uses it as an execute instead of an actual hit.

With that in mind every class should have access to an undodgable attack; if it's not RD then it will probably be the secondary morph of dark flare that's ranged without the empower (keeping the dmg since it's a channel).

Sandman929

RD is everywhere because Shuffle is infuriating. It's really that simple. If players start to feel like every single target attack is getting dodged, they'll start going with one that can't be dodged.

Minno

Sandman929 wrote: »

RD is everywhere because Shuffle is infuriating. It's really that simple. If players start to feel like every single target attack is getting dodged, they'll start going with one that can't be dodged.

Except poison injection; they will spam that and not care it's not hitting lol.

FearlessOne_2014

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I killed a bunch of people with RD tonight, and died to it exactly once. Meanwhile every time a stam build got within 5 feet of me ... BAM ... dizzying swing for 10,000+ damage. But yeah, that's totally skill!

Truth, RD is the best skill in the game, but about the next dozen are all stamina skills. The ONLY thing balancing Cyrodiil is Radiant Destruction.

So do you really want to know why it hasn't been nerfed yet? Because it's doing it's rock-paper-scissor job.

How does one get hit by a wrecking blow? It's such a slow move. I run circles around anyone that's using it.

Just like this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGNa--Qtf9c
If Ani-cancel wasn't a thing in this game most stamina burst like abilities would be balanced and avoidable as magicka abilities are now. You want to nerf RD range to be put into animation cancel 3 or 4 abilities at one time range, then fine take animation cancelling out of this game. Good trade right? Global cool down of 1/4 of a second on all abilities in the game. End of story if thats too much for you then learn to play the game like the rest of us instead of asking for ZOS to give yall more Godmode to use against magicka based players.

At least RD at current time has many counters, both ranged and melee options. Stamina animation cancelling offers no counters for magicka based users, other then staying out of their range.

Rikumaru

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I killed a bunch of people with RD tonight, and died to it exactly once. Meanwhile every time a stam build got within 5 feet of me ... BAM ... dizzying swing for 10,000+ damage. But yeah, that's totally skill!

Truth, RD is the best skill in the game, but about the next dozen are all stamina skills. The ONLY thing balancing Cyrodiil is Radiant Destruction.

So do you really want to know why it hasn't been nerfed yet? Because it's doing it's rock-paper-scissor job.

How does one get hit by a wrecking blow? It's such a slow move. I run circles around anyone that's using it.

Just like this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGNa--Qtf9c
If Ani-cancel wasn't a thing in this game most stamina burst like abilities would be balanced and avoidable as magicka abilities are now. You want to nerf RD range to be put into animation cancel 3 or 4 abilities at one time range, then fine take animation cancelling out of this game. Good trade right? Global cool down of 1/4 of a second on all abilities in the game. End of story if thats too much for you then learn to play the game like the rest of us instead of asking for ZOS to give yall more Godmode to use against magicka based players.

At least RD at current time has many counters, both ranged and melee options. Stamina animation cancelling offers no counters for magicka based users, other then staying out of their range.

Magicka builds benefit from animation cancelling just as much as stamina builds do.

Stoopid_Nwah

Rikumaru wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I killed a bunch of people with RD tonight, and died to it exactly once. Meanwhile every time a stam build got within 5 feet of me ... BAM ... dizzying swing for 10,000+ damage. But yeah, that's totally skill!

Truth, RD is the best skill in the game, but about the next dozen are all stamina skills. The ONLY thing balancing Cyrodiil is Radiant Destruction.

So do you really want to know why it hasn't been nerfed yet? Because it's doing it's rock-paper-scissor job.

How does one get hit by a wrecking blow? It's such a slow move. I run circles around anyone that's using it.

Just like this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGNa--Qtf9c
If Ani-cancel wasn't a thing in this game most stamina burst like abilities would be balanced and avoidable as magicka abilities are now. You want to nerf RD range to be put into animation cancel 3 or 4 abilities at one time range, then fine take animation cancelling out of this game. Good trade right? Global cool down of 1/4 of a second on all abilities in the game. End of story if thats too much for you then learn to play the game like the rest of us instead of asking for ZOS to give yall more Godmode to use against magicka based players.

At least RD at current time has many counters, both ranged and melee options. Stamina animation cancelling offers no counters for magicka based users, other then staying out of their range.

Magicka builds benefit from animation cancelling just as much as stamina builds do.

Agreed. Take away animation cancelling and you just nerfed my magblade even more.

Van_0S

ArpamiesFin wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em46ajNfuTU

Again! This fallacy video!

Unsent.Soul

sirrmattus wrote: »

I think they should just nerf the range to 10 meters. Not much longer than jabs wich is main source of damage

That would destroy this skill. Glad you're not in charge!

sirrmattus wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

itzeffect wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

No, Radiant is intended to be a counter to dodge mechanics. Learn to block, purge, LOS, bash, or CC. You can literally negate it with every single mitigation mechanic in the game except dodge. Working as intended. I'm sorry to be that guy, but L2P.

are you for real?... have you ever fought more than one person at a time? also can't bash from 15 meteres away

If magic Crushing Shock
If stamina Venom Arrow
Problems solved.

And if magic dk?


Oh wait no one gives a *** about mDK.

MagDK can't use a destruction staff? Oh wait... you don't want to change your build or playstyle to adapt, you would rather nerf than L2P.

sirrmattus wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

No, Radiant is intended to be a counter to dodge mechanics. Learn to block, purge, LOS, bash, or CC. You can literally negate it with every single mitigation mechanic in the game except dodge. Working as intended. I'm sorry to be that guy, but L2P.

You must be an idiot

This Internet tough guy... great discussion, glad to see people can actually put forth a decent reaponse....

Also @sirrmattus you don't need to post 3 times... Maybe another L2P issue.

FearlessOne_2014

Rikumaru wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I killed a bunch of people with RD tonight, and died to it exactly once. Meanwhile every time a stam build got within 5 feet of me ... BAM ... dizzying swing for 10,000+ damage. But yeah, that's totally skill!

Truth, RD is the best skill in the game, but about the next dozen are all stamina skills. The ONLY thing balancing Cyrodiil is Radiant Destruction.

So do you really want to know why it hasn't been nerfed yet? Because it's doing it's rock-paper-scissor job.

How does one get hit by a wrecking blow? It's such a slow move. I run circles around anyone that's using it.

Just like this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGNa--Qtf9c
If Ani-cancel wasn't a thing in this game most stamina burst like abilities would be balanced and avoidable as magicka abilities are now. You want to nerf RD range to be put into animation cancel 3 or 4 abilities at one time range, then fine take animation cancelling out of this game. Good trade right? Global cool down of 1/4 of a second on all abilities in the game. End of story if thats too much for you then learn to play the game like the rest of us instead of asking for ZOS to give yall more Godmode to use against magicka based players.

At least RD at current time has many counters, both ranged and melee options. Stamina animation cancelling offers no counters for magicka based users, other then staying out of their range.

Magicka builds benefit from animation cancelling just as much as stamina builds do.

Lol I offered many many different compremises some really decent ones at that. Yall just shot them all down while at the same time crying for RD to be beyond gimp. If yall don't want to give but only take to farther yall stamina supremacy then perhaps ESO is just not the game for you. Might I suggest Blade and Soul since that's the exact style of gameplay you stamina players absolutely want?

This is a ELDER SCROLLS game, so I'm sorry that you melee guys, can not just automatically win against range magicka builds.

Ok since yall rejected my other compromises, how about these last two?

A.) Take away all of the gap closers that stamina currently has except the one from Sword and Shield. This way ranged magicka players are not pigeonholed into RD as it's one of the few attacks left in the magicka arsonal. That can make stamina players give a second thought before engaging a magicka player. This also makes Stamina players have to choose between defensive or offensive instead of having the best of all worlds, and it'll get stamina tanks a more honorable position on the battlefield.

B.) Change some of the magicka abilities in the class and weapon trees. Force Shock, Destructive Touch, and some of the abilities in the Sorcs' Storm Calling and Dark Magic trees. Make or give some of these abilities either a channel with more damage that can be interruptible, but not dodged. Or you can make some of these abilities non projectile spells that deals instant damage and can not be reflected, but can be dodged, blocked, or evaded.

I think these proposals are reasonable. I would happily trade RD for what I've said above. Till then...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyuNidSrVik

Much love to ye all!

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Once again ...

RD is the best skill in the game that works as intended. The next dozen skills are all stamina skills. Meanwhile there are stamina players who can hit you with 3 to 5 skills at the exact same time from 41 meters away.

If it was not for RD there would be no stopping stamina. It does not need a nerf. It's the rock in rock-scissors-paper.

Seriously though, I already slot javelin and that lands half the time at most. Dark Flare? Yeah, maybe one in three if I'm lucky. Some of you are complaining that it's undodgeable, but all the rest of my skills barely ever land.

Oh, and no, you OMGSKILLZED stam players aren't any more skilled than me hitting 1 button. You just memorized a pattern to kill people instantly. Congrats. So did we. Except instead of X, Y, B ours is Y and pray.