[VIDEO] Pact Milita vs Vehemence for the Battle of White Fall Mountain

Rohamad_Ali

It was nice to a pvp video in a different locations from keeps . Very cool .

Elong

Satiar wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

NACtron wrote: »

I believe numbers is something guilds (especially newer guilds with less experience) that if available should be used to stay competitive and play the map. This has benefits for both the pugs and the elite guilds that get massive laggy plates of AP given to them from time to time. It takes time to refine a group to the point where they don't need numbers to wipe elite groups or groups of regular players their size. Numbers provide safety to the learn the games meta and not rage quit due to all of the steam rolling elite guilds do to pugs.

Map control is the key to winning the campaign as a whole. Mostly, we felt we were fighting DC only this campaign. We'd love AD to make a strong push here as well (or I would).

I see Pact (and LFG) as performing a vital roll to the health of EP in PvP. What other group is happy to take people who are new to PvP (or even new to MMOs) and show them the way of the joy of PvP? We have the elite groups, but if you're a beginner, that's not somewhere you can begin.

If you listen in TS, bring siege, stay-on-crown (but not too tight) you have a place in my raid (and in any general Pact raid). I want to share the joy of PvP with everyone.

And ultimately, that's why I shared that video in the first place, because I wanted to show everyone the shear FUN we were having. It wouldn't have mattered if VE wiped us every single time (well, maybe a little bit) because we were all having a BLAST.

And for me, that's what PvP is about. And I want to share that with as many people as possible.

I get it and kudos to you for looking after the new players - people like you are a valuable part of our community. I wouldn't for an instant try to tell you how to play the game at the level you're pitching. However as a suggestion, try to spread your groups out a wee bit as stacking large groups causes serious lag and frame rate drop, not just for you (as shown in your video), but also for your allies (see Jule's from Haxus' latest video) and your enemies (as I have experienced first hand). Those of us who have played since before the abortive lighting patch no that ZOS did something that borked its servers and made it difficult for them to handle large numbers on screen after that patch if those large numbers were all coordinating skills like aoes. If we could fight you guys without lagging to hell and back I'm sure I'd be far less cranky about the stacking of warbands, and I do understand your point about the importance of nurturing and training the pugs so they don't rage quit after multiple wipes by groups like ours. I have to give kudos to DiG on AD Haderus for taking the same role and I know we love fighting them when the server can handle their numbers.

This is as I say just a suggestion (as I don't pay your sub after all) but I'm sure your core group would benefit from stepping away from the numbers and trying VE/Fantasia and whoever else are the top tier DC and AD groups on TF now on more even numerical footings if as you say they're looking to improve and step up their game. Even send them over to Haderus to take us on from time to time while your other warbands hold the fort on TF - we'd love that and would even be prepared to give them pointers as we used to with Slywolf, Unruh and other EP opponents when they were switching their game up by pitting themselves against us. I'm sure VE and Fantasia would do the same as despite what zyk says as clearly he hasn't experienced it there is a real camaraderie and respect as well as rivalry amongst the other serious pvp guilds as both Steve from VE and Jules from Haxus have attested to in this thread. Fighting outnumbered or on more even numbers against more experienced (and that's all we are really) opponents allows far less leeway to make mistakes so you don't tend to repeat them once you've made them a couple of times.

Stepping up your core into a more elite role while continuing to pug wrangle separately would help out EP in the game a great deal I'm sure, and having better guilds to fight more evenly is a hell of a lot more fun for the top tier guilds too. None of us want to see EP a lame duck. We've had that on Haderus until fairly recently and its far more fun to be back in a 3 way struggle again rather than a 2 way one as with the population advantage AD has here (at least until this weekend), we really need that too to take the pressure off us as well while adding back that fun dimension a 3rd equally strong faction brings to the game.

This, everyone starts somewhere and we are more than willing to offer advice, but not to someone who encourages their player to chase down single targets with a full raid.

To be fair I do this to Frozn all the timE.

"Meteor Bomb Elongo" has been heard in your TS lol.

Ghost-Shot

Elong wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

NACtron wrote: »

I believe numbers is something guilds (especially newer guilds with less experience) that if available should be used to stay competitive and play the map. This has benefits for both the pugs and the elite guilds that get massive laggy plates of AP given to them from time to time. It takes time to refine a group to the point where they don't need numbers to wipe elite groups or groups of regular players their size. Numbers provide safety to the learn the games meta and not rage quit due to all of the steam rolling elite guilds do to pugs.

Map control is the key to winning the campaign as a whole. Mostly, we felt we were fighting DC only this campaign. We'd love AD to make a strong push here as well (or I would).

I see Pact (and LFG) as performing a vital roll to the health of EP in PvP. What other group is happy to take people who are new to PvP (or even new to MMOs) and show them the way of the joy of PvP? We have the elite groups, but if you're a beginner, that's not somewhere you can begin.

If you listen in TS, bring siege, stay-on-crown (but not too tight) you have a place in my raid (and in any general Pact raid). I want to share the joy of PvP with everyone.

And ultimately, that's why I shared that video in the first place, because I wanted to show everyone the shear FUN we were having. It wouldn't have mattered if VE wiped us every single time (well, maybe a little bit) because we were all having a BLAST.

And for me, that's what PvP is about. And I want to share that with as many people as possible.

I get it and kudos to you for looking after the new players - people like you are a valuable part of our community. I wouldn't for an instant try to tell you how to play the game at the level you're pitching. However as a suggestion, try to spread your groups out a wee bit as stacking large groups causes serious lag and frame rate drop, not just for you (as shown in your video), but also for your allies (see Jule's from Haxus' latest video) and your enemies (as I have experienced first hand). Those of us who have played since before the abortive lighting patch no that ZOS did something that borked its servers and made it difficult for them to handle large numbers on screen after that patch if those large numbers were all coordinating skills like aoes. If we could fight you guys without lagging to hell and back I'm sure I'd be far less cranky about the stacking of warbands, and I do understand your point about the importance of nurturing and training the pugs so they don't rage quit after multiple wipes by groups like ours. I have to give kudos to DiG on AD Haderus for taking the same role and I know we love fighting them when the server can handle their numbers.

This is as I say just a suggestion (as I don't pay your sub after all) but I'm sure your core group would benefit from stepping away from the numbers and trying VE/Fantasia and whoever else are the top tier DC and AD groups on TF now on more even numerical footings if as you say they're looking to improve and step up their game. Even send them over to Haderus to take us on from time to time while your other warbands hold the fort on TF - we'd love that and would even be prepared to give them pointers as we used to with Slywolf, Unruh and other EP opponents when they were switching their game up by pitting themselves against us. I'm sure VE and Fantasia would do the same as despite what zyk says as clearly he hasn't experienced it there is a real camaraderie and respect as well as rivalry amongst the other serious pvp guilds as both Steve from VE and Jules from Haxus have attested to in this thread. Fighting outnumbered or on more even numbers against more experienced (and that's all we are really) opponents allows far less leeway to make mistakes so you don't tend to repeat them once you've made them a couple of times.

Stepping up your core into a more elite role while continuing to pug wrangle separately would help out EP in the game a great deal I'm sure, and having better guilds to fight more evenly is a hell of a lot more fun for the top tier guilds too. None of us want to see EP a lame duck. We've had that on Haderus until fairly recently and its far more fun to be back in a 3 way struggle again rather than a 2 way one as with the population advantage AD has here (at least until this weekend), we really need that too to take the pressure off us as well while adding back that fun dimension a 3rd equally strong faction brings to the game.

This, everyone starts somewhere and we are more than willing to offer advice, but not to someone who encourages their player to chase down single targets with a full raid.

To be fair I do this to Frozn all the timE.

"Meteor Bomb Elongo" has been heard in your TS lol.

No comment.

Elong

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

NACtron wrote: »

I believe numbers is something guilds (especially newer guilds with less experience) that if available should be used to stay competitive and play the map. This has benefits for both the pugs and the elite guilds that get massive laggy plates of AP given to them from time to time. It takes time to refine a group to the point where they don't need numbers to wipe elite groups or groups of regular players their size. Numbers provide safety to the learn the games meta and not rage quit due to all of the steam rolling elite guilds do to pugs.

Map control is the key to winning the campaign as a whole. Mostly, we felt we were fighting DC only this campaign. We'd love AD to make a strong push here as well (or I would).

I see Pact (and LFG) as performing a vital roll to the health of EP in PvP. What other group is happy to take people who are new to PvP (or even new to MMOs) and show them the way of the joy of PvP? We have the elite groups, but if you're a beginner, that's not somewhere you can begin.

If you listen in TS, bring siege, stay-on-crown (but not too tight) you have a place in my raid (and in any general Pact raid). I want to share the joy of PvP with everyone.

And ultimately, that's why I shared that video in the first place, because I wanted to show everyone the shear FUN we were having. It wouldn't have mattered if VE wiped us every single time (well, maybe a little bit) because we were all having a BLAST.

And for me, that's what PvP is about. And I want to share that with as many people as possible.

I get it and kudos to you for looking after the new players - people like you are a valuable part of our community. I wouldn't for an instant try to tell you how to play the game at the level you're pitching. However as a suggestion, try to spread your groups out a wee bit as stacking large groups causes serious lag and frame rate drop, not just for you (as shown in your video), but also for your allies (see Jule's from Haxus' latest video) and your enemies (as I have experienced first hand). Those of us who have played since before the abortive lighting patch no that ZOS did something that borked its servers and made it difficult for them to handle large numbers on screen after that patch if those large numbers were all coordinating skills like aoes. If we could fight you guys without lagging to hell and back I'm sure I'd be far less cranky about the stacking of warbands, and I do understand your point about the importance of nurturing and training the pugs so they don't rage quit after multiple wipes by groups like ours. I have to give kudos to DiG on AD Haderus for taking the same role and I know we love fighting them when the server can handle their numbers.

This is as I say just a suggestion (as I don't pay your sub after all) but I'm sure your core group would benefit from stepping away from the numbers and trying VE/Fantasia and whoever else are the top tier DC and AD groups on TF now on more even numerical footings if as you say they're looking to improve and step up their game. Even send them over to Haderus to take us on from time to time while your other warbands hold the fort on TF - we'd love that and would even be prepared to give them pointers as we used to with Slywolf, Unruh and other EP opponents when they were switching their game up by pitting themselves against us. I'm sure VE and Fantasia would do the same as despite what zyk says as clearly he hasn't experienced it there is a real camaraderie and respect as well as rivalry amongst the other serious pvp guilds as both Steve from VE and Jules from Haxus have attested to in this thread. Fighting outnumbered or on more even numbers against more experienced (and that's all we are really) opponents allows far less leeway to make mistakes so you don't tend to repeat them once you've made them a couple of times.

Stepping up your core into a more elite role while continuing to pug wrangle separately would help out EP in the game a great deal I'm sure, and having better guilds to fight more evenly is a hell of a lot more fun for the top tier guilds too. None of us want to see EP a lame duck. We've had that on Haderus until fairly recently and its far more fun to be back in a 3 way struggle again rather than a 2 way one as with the population advantage AD has here (at least until this weekend), we really need that too to take the pressure off us as well while adding back that fun dimension a 3rd equally strong faction brings to the game.

This, everyone starts somewhere and we are more than willing to offer advice, but not to someone who encourages their player to chase down single targets with a full raid.

To be fair I do this to Frozn all the timE.

"Meteor Bomb Elongo" has been heard in your TS lol.

No comment.

Surviving that bomb is my greatest achievement. Not that there's many to choose from haha.

Daveheart

Elong wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

NACtron wrote: »

I believe numbers is something guilds (especially newer guilds with less experience) that if available should be used to stay competitive and play the map. This has benefits for both the pugs and the elite guilds that get massive laggy plates of AP given to them from time to time. It takes time to refine a group to the point where they don't need numbers to wipe elite groups or groups of regular players their size. Numbers provide safety to the learn the games meta and not rage quit due to all of the steam rolling elite guilds do to pugs.

Map control is the key to winning the campaign as a whole. Mostly, we felt we were fighting DC only this campaign. We'd love AD to make a strong push here as well (or I would).

I see Pact (and LFG) as performing a vital roll to the health of EP in PvP. What other group is happy to take people who are new to PvP (or even new to MMOs) and show them the way of the joy of PvP? We have the elite groups, but if you're a beginner, that's not somewhere you can begin.

If you listen in TS, bring siege, stay-on-crown (but not too tight) you have a place in my raid (and in any general Pact raid). I want to share the joy of PvP with everyone.

And ultimately, that's why I shared that video in the first place, because I wanted to show everyone the shear FUN we were having. It wouldn't have mattered if VE wiped us every single time (well, maybe a little bit) because we were all having a BLAST.

And for me, that's what PvP is about. And I want to share that with as many people as possible.

I get it and kudos to you for looking after the new players - people like you are a valuable part of our community. I wouldn't for an instant try to tell you how to play the game at the level you're pitching. However as a suggestion, try to spread your groups out a wee bit as stacking large groups causes serious lag and frame rate drop, not just for you (as shown in your video), but also for your allies (see Jule's from Haxus' latest video) and your enemies (as I have experienced first hand). Those of us who have played since before the abortive lighting patch no that ZOS did something that borked its servers and made it difficult for them to handle large numbers on screen after that patch if those large numbers were all coordinating skills like aoes. If we could fight you guys without lagging to hell and back I'm sure I'd be far less cranky about the stacking of warbands, and I do understand your point about the importance of nurturing and training the pugs so they don't rage quit after multiple wipes by groups like ours. I have to give kudos to DiG on AD Haderus for taking the same role and I know we love fighting them when the server can handle their numbers.

This is as I say just a suggestion (as I don't pay your sub after all) but I'm sure your core group would benefit from stepping away from the numbers and trying VE/Fantasia and whoever else are the top tier DC and AD groups on TF now on more even numerical footings if as you say they're looking to improve and step up their game. Even send them over to Haderus to take us on from time to time while your other warbands hold the fort on TF - we'd love that and would even be prepared to give them pointers as we used to with Slywolf, Unruh and other EP opponents when they were switching their game up by pitting themselves against us. I'm sure VE and Fantasia would do the same as despite what zyk says as clearly he hasn't experienced it there is a real camaraderie and respect as well as rivalry amongst the other serious pvp guilds as both Steve from VE and Jules from Haxus have attested to in this thread. Fighting outnumbered or on more even numbers against more experienced (and that's all we are really) opponents allows far less leeway to make mistakes so you don't tend to repeat them once you've made them a couple of times.

Stepping up your core into a more elite role while continuing to pug wrangle separately would help out EP in the game a great deal I'm sure, and having better guilds to fight more evenly is a hell of a lot more fun for the top tier guilds too. None of us want to see EP a lame duck. We've had that on Haderus until fairly recently and its far more fun to be back in a 3 way struggle again rather than a 2 way one as with the population advantage AD has here (at least until this weekend), we really need that too to take the pressure off us as well while adding back that fun dimension a 3rd equally strong faction brings to the game.

This, everyone starts somewhere and we are more than willing to offer advice, but not to someone who encourages their player to chase down single targets with a full raid.

To be fair I do this to Frozn all the timE.

"Meteor Bomb Elongo" has been heard in your TS lol.

No comment.

Surviving that bomb is my greatest achievement. Not that there's many to choose from haha.

I believe I complimented you on surviving that. I don't believe I had a meteor up that time.

As to the video the thread's actually about, those were fun fights. I believe good times were had by all.

Also, as of yesterday, it appeared that AD actually had a solid presence on the campaign. I hope that continues as I'm sure almost all of EP gets tired of fighting almost all of DC almost all of the time. Dual front pressure would do wonders for TF.

Elong

Daveheart wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

NACtron wrote: »

I believe numbers is something guilds (especially newer guilds with less experience) that if available should be used to stay competitive and play the map. This has benefits for both the pugs and the elite guilds that get massive laggy plates of AP given to them from time to time. It takes time to refine a group to the point where they don't need numbers to wipe elite groups or groups of regular players their size. Numbers provide safety to the learn the games meta and not rage quit due to all of the steam rolling elite guilds do to pugs.

Map control is the key to winning the campaign as a whole. Mostly, we felt we were fighting DC only this campaign. We'd love AD to make a strong push here as well (or I would).

I see Pact (and LFG) as performing a vital roll to the health of EP in PvP. What other group is happy to take people who are new to PvP (or even new to MMOs) and show them the way of the joy of PvP? We have the elite groups, but if you're a beginner, that's not somewhere you can begin.

If you listen in TS, bring siege, stay-on-crown (but not too tight) you have a place in my raid (and in any general Pact raid). I want to share the joy of PvP with everyone.

And ultimately, that's why I shared that video in the first place, because I wanted to show everyone the shear FUN we were having. It wouldn't have mattered if VE wiped us every single time (well, maybe a little bit) because we were all having a BLAST.

And for me, that's what PvP is about. And I want to share that with as many people as possible.

I get it and kudos to you for looking after the new players - people like you are a valuable part of our community. I wouldn't for an instant try to tell you how to play the game at the level you're pitching. However as a suggestion, try to spread your groups out a wee bit as stacking large groups causes serious lag and frame rate drop, not just for you (as shown in your video), but also for your allies (see Jule's from Haxus' latest video) and your enemies (as I have experienced first hand). Those of us who have played since before the abortive lighting patch no that ZOS did something that borked its servers and made it difficult for them to handle large numbers on screen after that patch if those large numbers were all coordinating skills like aoes. If we could fight you guys without lagging to hell and back I'm sure I'd be far less cranky about the stacking of warbands, and I do understand your point about the importance of nurturing and training the pugs so they don't rage quit after multiple wipes by groups like ours. I have to give kudos to DiG on AD Haderus for taking the same role and I know we love fighting them when the server can handle their numbers.

This is as I say just a suggestion (as I don't pay your sub after all) but I'm sure your core group would benefit from stepping away from the numbers and trying VE/Fantasia and whoever else are the top tier DC and AD groups on TF now on more even numerical footings if as you say they're looking to improve and step up their game. Even send them over to Haderus to take us on from time to time while your other warbands hold the fort on TF - we'd love that and would even be prepared to give them pointers as we used to with Slywolf, Unruh and other EP opponents when they were switching their game up by pitting themselves against us. I'm sure VE and Fantasia would do the same as despite what zyk says as clearly he hasn't experienced it there is a real camaraderie and respect as well as rivalry amongst the other serious pvp guilds as both Steve from VE and Jules from Haxus have attested to in this thread. Fighting outnumbered or on more even numbers against more experienced (and that's all we are really) opponents allows far less leeway to make mistakes so you don't tend to repeat them once you've made them a couple of times.

Stepping up your core into a more elite role while continuing to pug wrangle separately would help out EP in the game a great deal I'm sure, and having better guilds to fight more evenly is a hell of a lot more fun for the top tier guilds too. None of us want to see EP a lame duck. We've had that on Haderus until fairly recently and its far more fun to be back in a 3 way struggle again rather than a 2 way one as with the population advantage AD has here (at least until this weekend), we really need that too to take the pressure off us as well while adding back that fun dimension a 3rd equally strong faction brings to the game.

This, everyone starts somewhere and we are more than willing to offer advice, but not to someone who encourages their player to chase down single targets with a full raid.

To be fair I do this to Frozn all the timE.

"Meteor Bomb Elongo" has been heard in your TS lol.

No comment.

Surviving that bomb is my greatest achievement. Not that there's many to choose from haha.

I believe I complimented you on surviving that. I don't believe I had a meteor up that time.

As to the video the thread's actually about, those were fun fights. I believe good times were had by all.

Also, as of yesterday, it appeared that AD actually had a solid presence on the campaign. I hope that continues as I'm sure almost all of EP gets tired of fighting almost all of DC almost all of the time. Dual front pressure would do wonders for TF.

Yep, to be honest 1 more meteor might have done the trick though

Agreed on the current campaign. Nice to see AD show. Still, EP have superior numbers throughout the night, need more Aussies and Kiwis on DC/AD! Or unemployed bums xD

PhatGrimReaper

Elong wrote: »

Daveheart wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

NACtron wrote: »

I believe numbers is something guilds (especially newer guilds with less experience) that if available should be used to stay competitive and play the map. This has benefits for both the pugs and the elite guilds that get massive laggy plates of AP given to them from time to time. It takes time to refine a group to the point where they don't need numbers to wipe elite groups or groups of regular players their size. Numbers provide safety to the learn the games meta and not rage quit due to all of the steam rolling elite guilds do to pugs.

Map control is the key to winning the campaign as a whole. Mostly, we felt we were fighting DC only this campaign. We'd love AD to make a strong push here as well (or I would).

I see Pact (and LFG) as performing a vital roll to the health of EP in PvP. What other group is happy to take people who are new to PvP (or even new to MMOs) and show them the way of the joy of PvP? We have the elite groups, but if you're a beginner, that's not somewhere you can begin.

If you listen in TS, bring siege, stay-on-crown (but not too tight) you have a place in my raid (and in any general Pact raid). I want to share the joy of PvP with everyone.

And ultimately, that's why I shared that video in the first place, because I wanted to show everyone the shear FUN we were having. It wouldn't have mattered if VE wiped us every single time (well, maybe a little bit) because we were all having a BLAST.

And for me, that's what PvP is about. And I want to share that with as many people as possible.

I get it and kudos to you for looking after the new players - people like you are a valuable part of our community. I wouldn't for an instant try to tell you how to play the game at the level you're pitching. However as a suggestion, try to spread your groups out a wee bit as stacking large groups causes serious lag and frame rate drop, not just for you (as shown in your video), but also for your allies (see Jule's from Haxus' latest video) and your enemies (as I have experienced first hand). Those of us who have played since before the abortive lighting patch no that ZOS did something that borked its servers and made it difficult for them to handle large numbers on screen after that patch if those large numbers were all coordinating skills like aoes. If we could fight you guys without lagging to hell and back I'm sure I'd be far less cranky about the stacking of warbands, and I do understand your point about the importance of nurturing and training the pugs so they don't rage quit after multiple wipes by groups like ours. I have to give kudos to DiG on AD Haderus for taking the same role and I know we love fighting them when the server can handle their numbers.

This is as I say just a suggestion (as I don't pay your sub after all) but I'm sure your core group would benefit from stepping away from the numbers and trying VE/Fantasia and whoever else are the top tier DC and AD groups on TF now on more even numerical footings if as you say they're looking to improve and step up their game. Even send them over to Haderus to take us on from time to time while your other warbands hold the fort on TF - we'd love that and would even be prepared to give them pointers as we used to with Slywolf, Unruh and other EP opponents when they were switching their game up by pitting themselves against us. I'm sure VE and Fantasia would do the same as despite what zyk says as clearly he hasn't experienced it there is a real camaraderie and respect as well as rivalry amongst the other serious pvp guilds as both Steve from VE and Jules from Haxus have attested to in this thread. Fighting outnumbered or on more even numbers against more experienced (and that's all we are really) opponents allows far less leeway to make mistakes so you don't tend to repeat them once you've made them a couple of times.

Stepping up your core into a more elite role while continuing to pug wrangle separately would help out EP in the game a great deal I'm sure, and having better guilds to fight more evenly is a hell of a lot more fun for the top tier guilds too. None of us want to see EP a lame duck. We've had that on Haderus until fairly recently and its far more fun to be back in a 3 way struggle again rather than a 2 way one as with the population advantage AD has here (at least until this weekend), we really need that too to take the pressure off us as well while adding back that fun dimension a 3rd equally strong faction brings to the game.

This, everyone starts somewhere and we are more than willing to offer advice, but not to someone who encourages their player to chase down single targets with a full raid.

To be fair I do this to Frozn all the timE.

"Meteor Bomb Elongo" has been heard in your TS lol.

No comment.

Surviving that bomb is my greatest achievement. Not that there's many to choose from haha.

I believe I complimented you on surviving that. I don't believe I had a meteor up that time.

As to the video the thread's actually about, those were fun fights. I believe good times were had by all.

Also, as of yesterday, it appeared that AD actually had a solid presence on the campaign. I hope that continues as I'm sure almost all of EP gets tired of fighting almost all of DC almost all of the time. Dual front pressure would do wonders for TF.

Yep, to be honest 1 more meteor might have done the trick though

Agreed on the current campaign. Nice to see AD show. Still, EP have superior numbers throughout the night, need more Aussies and Kiwis on DC/AD! Or unemployed bums xD

AD had an Oceanic presence, but some people cried about zerging and non competitive campaigns....

frozywozy

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

NACtron wrote: »

I believe numbers is something guilds (especially newer guilds with less experience) that if available should be used to stay competitive and play the map. This has benefits for both the pugs and the elite guilds that get massive laggy plates of AP given to them from time to time. It takes time to refine a group to the point where they don't need numbers to wipe elite groups or groups of regular players their size. Numbers provide safety to the learn the games meta and not rage quit due to all of the steam rolling elite guilds do to pugs.

Map control is the key to winning the campaign as a whole. Mostly, we felt we were fighting DC only this campaign. We'd love AD to make a strong push here as well (or I would).

I see Pact (and LFG) as performing a vital roll to the health of EP in PvP. What other group is happy to take people who are new to PvP (or even new to MMOs) and show them the way of the joy of PvP? We have the elite groups, but if you're a beginner, that's not somewhere you can begin.

If you listen in TS, bring siege, stay-on-crown (but not too tight) you have a place in my raid (and in any general Pact raid). I want to share the joy of PvP with everyone.

And ultimately, that's why I shared that video in the first place, because I wanted to show everyone the shear FUN we were having. It wouldn't have mattered if VE wiped us every single time (well, maybe a little bit) because we were all having a BLAST.

And for me, that's what PvP is about. And I want to share that with as many people as possible.

I get it and kudos to you for looking after the new players - people like you are a valuable part of our community. I wouldn't for an instant try to tell you how to play the game at the level you're pitching. However as a suggestion, try to spread your groups out a wee bit as stacking large groups causes serious lag and frame rate drop, not just for you (as shown in your video), but also for your allies (see Jule's from Haxus' latest video) and your enemies (as I have experienced first hand). Those of us who have played since before the abortive lighting patch no that ZOS did something that borked its servers and made it difficult for them to handle large numbers on screen after that patch if those large numbers were all coordinating skills like aoes. If we could fight you guys without lagging to hell and back I'm sure I'd be far less cranky about the stacking of warbands, and I do understand your point about the importance of nurturing and training the pugs so they don't rage quit after multiple wipes by groups like ours. I have to give kudos to DiG on AD Haderus for taking the same role and I know we love fighting them when the server can handle their numbers.

This is as I say just a suggestion (as I don't pay your sub after all) but I'm sure your core group would benefit from stepping away from the numbers and trying VE/Fantasia and whoever else are the top tier DC and AD groups on TF now on more even numerical footings if as you say they're looking to improve and step up their game. Even send them over to Haderus to take us on from time to time while your other warbands hold the fort on TF - we'd love that and would even be prepared to give them pointers as we used to with Slywolf, Unruh and other EP opponents when they were switching their game up by pitting themselves against us. I'm sure VE and Fantasia would do the same as despite what zyk says as clearly he hasn't experienced it there is a real camaraderie and respect as well as rivalry amongst the other serious pvp guilds as both Steve from VE and Jules from Haxus have attested to in this thread. Fighting outnumbered or on more even numbers against more experienced (and that's all we are really) opponents allows far less leeway to make mistakes so you don't tend to repeat them once you've made them a couple of times.

Stepping up your core into a more elite role while continuing to pug wrangle separately would help out EP in the game a great deal I'm sure, and having better guilds to fight more evenly is a hell of a lot more fun for the top tier guilds too. None of us want to see EP a lame duck. We've had that on Haderus until fairly recently and its far more fun to be back in a 3 way struggle again rather than a 2 way one as with the population advantage AD has here (at least until this weekend), we really need that too to take the pressure off us as well while adding back that fun dimension a 3rd equally strong faction brings to the game.

Well said. This is exactly what I've been trying to explain to Pact Militia for the past 6months.
Offered their raid leaders to give them personnal training on raiding nights.
Offered to specifically train their members who need assistance one at a time.
Can't help someone who doesn't ask for help and won't force it either.

Numbers are not the answer. Numbers will increase your chances to win, but will decrease the quality of gameplay of everybody else on the server as the server lags to death. Stepping up your gameplay is much more profitable for everybody.

It's good to take a moment to analyze what you've done wrong after a wipe, but it's even better to go seek help from more experienced players and ask for advices to get better at what you're doing. Especially when they are begging to assist.

Icy

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

I get it and kudos to you for looking after the new players - people like you are a valuable part of our community. I wouldn't for an instant try to tell you how to play the game at the level you're pitching. However as a suggestion, try to spread your groups out a wee bit as stacking large groups causes serious lag and frame rate drop, not just for you (as shown in your video), but also for your allies (see Jule's from Haxus' latest video) and your enemies (as I have experienced first hand).

Mostly we have 1 1/2 groups stacked these days but the lag doesn't really get better, especially at keeps. And of course other groups come where the AP is and the fights are. That's why were all here after all.

I know that ZoS keep deploying skills/changes that are "zerg" busters but face it, if you need numbers to win, you stack the numbers. It's a shame the servers can't keep up with the play (though it is a little better with the Thieves Guild).

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

I'm sure your core group would benefit from stepping away from the numbers and trying VE/Fantasia and whoever else are the top tier DC and AD groups on TF now on more even numerical footings if as you say they're looking to improve and step up their game.

This is the aim of the Core group, and what happens mostly when they're running. The general PACT raid isn't usually stacked on them, but who could resist the mountain. >.<

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

Even send them over to Haderus to take us on from time to time while your other warbands hold the fort on TF.

OOOOH! Tempting! ^_^ And YES, it's great to fight people who have different styles and tactics.

Satiar wrote: »

Ill admit I dislike being chased down by 2+ raids but you have to be practical about these things.

Hey, you're tough! If we gotta stack 1 1/2 raids to getcha then we're going to do it. But we do get you with one raid sometimes :P even the general Pact raid. And it's pretty damn satisfying when it happens.

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

It was nice to a pvp video in a different locations from keeps . Very cool .

TY TY ^_^

Daveheart wrote: »

Also, as of yesterday, it appeared that AD actually had a solid presence on the campaign. I hope that continues as I'm sure almost all of EP gets tired of fighting almost all of DC almost all of the time. Dual front pressure would do wonders for TF.

YES!! Mostly Mohican tho. >_< And you'll 'scuse us for concentrating on DC for the first 2 days. You're ahead of AD on points.

Elong wrote: »

Agreed on the current campaign. Nice to see AD show. Still, EP have superior numbers throughout the night, need more Aussies and Kiwis on DC/AD! Or unemployed bums xD

It's the timezones. We've gone out of Daylight Savings while you've gone in, so we're all fighting 2hrs later relative to you. You'll see AU/NZ/Japanese players come on around 5am your time. Saw that last night (your early morning) as well. It was all fine until about 8pm my time when it suddenly got harder as DC logged on and saw what we did to their map. >_<

Satiar

Icy wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Ill admit I dislike being chased down by 2+ raids but you have to be practical about these things.

Hey, you're tough! If we gotta stack 1 1/2 raids to getcha then we're going to do it. But we do get you with one raid sometimes :P even the general Pact raid. And it's pretty damn satisfying when it happens.

I would contest this point, but if you feel one raid is enough than I am all for you continuing down that line of thought.

Elong

[/quote]
It's the timezones. We've gone out of Daylight Savings while you've gone in, so we're all fighting 2hrs later relative to you. You'll see AU/NZ/Japanese players come on around 5am your time. Saw that last night (your early morning) as well. It was all fine until about 8pm my time when it suddenly got harder as DC logged on and saw what we did to their map. >_<[/quote]

I'm a kiwi though!

heystreethawk

Icy wrote: »

Daveheart wrote: »

Also, as of yesterday, it appeared that AD actually had a solid presence on the campaign. I hope that continues as I'm sure almost all of EP gets tired of fighting almost all of DC almost all of the time. Dual front pressure would do wonders for TF.

YES!! Mostly Mohican tho. >_<

AHEM !

Possibly it didn't happen in the course of your playtime (late Saturday night/Sunday morning eastern US time, I'm rusty on Down Undah Time Conversions since the retirement of our beloved Aeryj), but surely someone in your crew noticed an abnormal inability to capture Alessia over the course of an hour long battle the other night? xD

(Which isn't to say we could have held the Pact off by ourselves, necessarily, though we were 20 deep and firing on all cylinders by that point in the evening -- I want to make it clear that the Heisenzerg was crushing it in other parts of the courtyard, and the freelance AD support on display was spectacular, matching our movements with fire ballistae from the top floor of the inner & earning huge woops of admiration from the Fantasia TS)

We've had a great time since switching over to Trueflame in earnest 3 or 4 raid nights back, and the conversations we've had with members of VE and Jauriel's Jammers-- not to mention the awesome, rain-or-shine native AD pop-- have felt welcoming and appreciative, which just goes to show how badly players still want Cyrodiil to work out for the best. One of the Pact players that tried to take Drake told us that we were "just a no good zerg of proxi like VE", which is how we knew that we had truly arrived.

We'll win some and lose some and get bummed out and cranky when our buttons don't work, and of course I'll get a little too mad at my people for like a minute because I forgot to eat dinner and we all forgot to spam purge, but the game is what it is, and people play the way they play; no reason that I can see to get upset about that before the last straw falls and we all peace out forever.

Props to Maxi for the shoutout, too. We do miss you guys. Which thread am I in?

Elong

heystreethawk wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

Daveheart wrote: »

Also, as of yesterday, it appeared that AD actually had a solid presence on the campaign. I hope that continues as I'm sure almost all of EP gets tired of fighting almost all of DC almost all of the time. Dual front pressure would do wonders for TF.

YES!! Mostly Mohican tho. >_<

AHEM !

Possibly it didn't happen in the course of your playtime (late Saturday night/Sunday morning eastern US time, I'm rusty on Down Undah Time Conversions since the retirement of our beloved Aeryj), but surely someone in your crew noticed an abnormal inability to capture Alessia over the course of an hour long battle the other night? xD

(Which isn't to say we could have held the Pact off by ourselves, necessarily, though we were 20 deep and firing on all cylinders by that point in the evening -- I want to make it clear that the Heisenzerg was crushing it in other parts of the courtyard, and the freelance AD support on display was spectacular, matching our movements with fire ballistae from the top floor of the inner & earning huge woops of admiration from the Fantasia TS)

We've had a great time since switching over to Trueflame in earnest 3 or 4 raid nights back, and the conversations we've had with members of VE and Jauriel's Jammers-- not to mention the awesome, rain-or-shine native AD pop-- have felt welcoming and appreciative, which just goes to show how badly players still want Cyrodiil to work out for the best. One of the Pact players that tried to take Drake told us that we were "just a no good zerg of proxi like VE", which is how we knew that we had truly arrived.

We'll win some and lose some and get bummed out and cranky when our buttons don't work, and of course I'll get a little too mad at my people for like a minute because I forgot to eat dinner and we all forgot to spam purge, but the game is what it is, and people play the way they play; no reason that I can see to get upset about that before the last straw falls and we all peace out forever.

Props to Maxi for the shoutout, too. We do miss you guys. Which thread am I in?

Please stay in TF, that was really enjoyable (last night or the night before? Can't remember). You could tell it was a proper, organised, cohesive raid, and you were kicking arse.

Satiar

heystreethawk wrote: »

One of the Pact players that tried to take Drake told us that we were "just a no good zerg of proxi like VE", which is how we knew that we had truly arrived.

Cheers, from one no good prox det zerg to another.

heystreethawk

Elong wrote: »

heystreethawk wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

Daveheart wrote: »

Also, as of yesterday, it appeared that AD actually had a solid presence on the campaign. I hope that continues as I'm sure almost all of EP gets tired of fighting almost all of DC almost all of the time. Dual front pressure would do wonders for TF.

YES!! Mostly Mohican tho. >_<

AHEM !

Possibly it didn't happen in the course of your playtime (late Saturday night/Sunday morning eastern US time, I'm rusty on Down Undah Time Conversions since the retirement of our beloved Aeryj), but surely someone in your crew noticed an abnormal inability to capture Alessia over the course of an hour long battle the other night? xD

(Which isn't to say we could have held the Pact off by ourselves, necessarily, though we were 20 deep and firing on all cylinders by that point in the evening -- I want to make it clear that the Heisenzerg was crushing it in other parts of the courtyard, and the freelance AD support on display was spectacular, matching our movements with fire ballistae from the top floor of the inner & earning huge woops of admiration from the Fantasia TS)

We've had a great time since switching over to Trueflame in earnest 3 or 4 raid nights back, and the conversations we've had with members of VE and Jauriel's Jammers-- not to mention the awesome, rain-or-shine native AD pop-- have felt welcoming and appreciative, which just goes to show how badly players still want Cyrodiil to work out for the best. One of the Pact players that tried to take Drake told us that we were "just a no good zerg of proxi like VE", which is how we knew that we had truly arrived.

We'll win some and lose some and get bummed out and cranky when our buttons don't work, and of course I'll get a little too mad at my people for like a minute because I forgot to eat dinner and we all forgot to spam purge, but the game is what it is, and people play the way they play; no reason that I can see to get upset about that before the last straw falls and we all peace out forever.

Props to Maxi for the shoutout, too. We do miss you guys. Which thread am I in?

Please stay in TF, that was really enjoyable (last night or the night before? Can't remember). You could tell it was a proper, organised, cohesive raid, and you were kicking arse.

Ahh! Thank you kindly. It was a standout fight in an absurdly fun evening, and we'll be sticking around.

Satiar wrote: »

heystreethawk wrote: »

One of the Pact players that tried to take Drake told us that we were "just a no good zerg of proxi like VE", which is how we knew that we had truly arrived.

Cheers, from one no good prox det zerg to another.

\m/

Icy

Elong wrote: »

I'm a kiwi though!

*waves vigorously from across the ocean*

heystreethawk wrote: »

Possibly it didn't happen in the course of your playtime (late Saturday night/Sunday morning eastern US time, I'm rusty on Down Undah Time Conversions since the retirement of our beloved Aeryj), but surely someone in your crew noticed an abnormal inability to capture Alessia over the course of an hour long battle the other night? xD

Welcome!! Pact would LOVE AD to be a strong presence in TF fighting EP and DC! (she says, only to regret her words possibly at the end of the campaign).

Satiar wrote: »

I would contest this point, but if you feel one raid is enough than I am all for you continuing down that line of thought.

Not all the time, but sometimes...
https://youtu.be/8i3f7nIQkck
(This is one raid of general Pact, though with players who would break out to Core if it was running, and I'm SURE we both had PuGs running along side)

Satiar

Icy wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

I would contest this point, but if you feel one raid is enough than I am all for you continuing down that line of thought.

Not all the time, but sometimes...
https://youtu.be/8i3f7nIQkck
(This is one raid of general Pact, though with players who would break out to Core if it was running, and I'm SURE we both had PuGs running along side)

Icy....

I don't know how to say this, but you just posted a video of a fight where we went against 50+ reds and a yellow group, and farmed both for a solid while before going down. A good long while, actually, considering by the time you start this video both inner walls are already down and our groups had already clashed several times. The eventual wipe is caused because we went to wipe the yellow group for the nth time who had been pounding us with cold fire siege, allowing the entire red horde to push flags. Bad call on our part, but oh well. It's what we get for allowing more than double our number onto the flags.

I give you guys a lot of credit and cut you a lot of slack, but you're being a bit silly here. I don't even know why you would post that. I guess it showcases us making a tactical error (allowing EP groups on flag and attempting to push a heavily stacked front flag without a negate), but for the rest of the video and the rest of the farm that got cut, I'd say we made the stay worth our while. If I recall correctly our 20 got well over 200 kills off EP at that keep.

Though again, if you're comfortable running one raid I'm not going to argue against it.

MaximillianDiE

Elong wrote: »

I'm a kiwi though! [/quote]

Same here

Icy

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

Same here

*waves also*
Does the NZ Gov invest in better internet infrastructure than the Australian one... :[

Satiar wrote: »

I don't know how to say this, but you just posted a video of a fight where we went against 50+ reds and a yellow group, and farmed both for a solid while before going down. A good long while, actually, considering by the time you start this video both inner walls are already down and our groups had already clashed several times. The eventual wipe is caused because we went to wipe the yellow group for the nth time who had been pounding us with cold fire siege, allowing the entire red horde to push flags. Bad call on our part, but oh well. It's what we get for allowing more than double our number onto the flags.

I give you guys a lot of credit and cut you a lot of slack, but you're being a bit silly here. I don't even know why you would post that. I guess it showcases us making a tactical error (allowing EP groups on flag and attempting to push a heavily stacked front flag without a negate), but for the rest of the video and the rest of the farm that got cut, I'd say we made the stay worth our while. If I recall correctly our 20 got well over 200 kills off EP at that keep.

I edited this a while ago, so I don't have the full video, but yes that was a long, long battle. I wasn't seeing 50 pugs on top of us, just some. And we were fighting just as hard against AD.

I didn't post this meaning to say we dominated, because you're right, we didn't, but I did want to show that just sometimes we come out on top. And yes, with one raid that's us coming out on top rarely. But we still take pride in the times we do, and I am proud of Pact, because damn it, we don't give up.

Pact is only about 6 months old, and most of the leadership worked it's way up through the non-vet campaign. I know that most of the big guilds here have been running for much longer than that. I've only been running raids for the last 3 months and seriously for the last 2 or so and as primary lead (when needed) for the last month or so. We've come a long way.

We've still got a way to go. But we're catching up. And the way we do that is by chasing the hardest fights. And just sometimes, maybe, winning.

Zheg

Icy wrote: »

Not all the time, but sometimes...
https://youtu.be/8i3f7nIQkck
(This is one raid of general Pact, though with players who would break out to Core if it was running, and I'm SURE we both had PuGs running along side)

If anything, this video is just incredibly strong evidence of the disaster caused by forward camps. Outnumbered by red on one side, yellow on the other ... all of the forum yahoos would argue that you're supposed to leave the keep to clear it out and put down another FC of your own, but since the loss at the end is because we eventually pushed out to clear yellow and stop the left-click siege heroes, I should hope these forum yahoos now realize how ridiculous those arguments are and how they're only applicable if you yourself have the numbers advantage with which to do so. The red outnumbering us though, well, they can just FC over and over and over ... and rez up with full stats for some reason. To all of the people that defend FCs because they like the middle of nowhere fights and farms they set up, I would point to this video as an example of why they're detrimental.

Anyway, at the very least, I can confirm that ghost is on dat 15k hp spec as is evidenced by 7:26.

Ghostbane

Trueflame prime time has been excellent this weekend, just sayin.

NACtron

frozywozy wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

NACtron wrote: »

I believe numbers is something guilds (especially newer guilds with less experience) that if available should be used to stay competitive and play the map. This has benefits for both the pugs and the elite guilds that get massive laggy plates of AP given to them from time to time. It takes time to refine a group to the point where they don't need numbers to wipe elite groups or groups of regular players their size. Numbers provide safety to the learn the games meta and not rage quit due to all of the steam rolling elite guilds do to pugs.

Map control is the key to winning the campaign as a whole. Mostly, we felt we were fighting DC only this campaign. We'd love AD to make a strong push here as well (or I would).

I see Pact (and LFG) as performing a vital roll to the health of EP in PvP. What other group is happy to take people who are new to PvP (or even new to MMOs) and show them the way of the joy of PvP? We have the elite groups, but if you're a beginner, that's not somewhere you can begin.

If you listen in TS, bring siege, stay-on-crown (but not too tight) you have a place in my raid (and in any general Pact raid). I want to share the joy of PvP with everyone.

And ultimately, that's why I shared that video in the first place, because I wanted to show everyone the shear FUN we were having. It wouldn't have mattered if VE wiped us every single time (well, maybe a little bit) because we were all having a BLAST.

And for me, that's what PvP is about. And I want to share that with as many people as possible.

I get it and kudos to you for looking after the new players - people like you are a valuable part of our community. I wouldn't for an instant try to tell you how to play the game at the level you're pitching. However as a suggestion, try to spread your groups out a wee bit as stacking large groups causes serious lag and frame rate drop, not just for you (as shown in your video), but also for your allies (see Jule's from Haxus' latest video) and your enemies (as I have experienced first hand). Those of us who have played since before the abortive lighting patch no that ZOS did something that borked its servers and made it difficult for them to handle large numbers on screen after that patch if those large numbers were all coordinating skills like aoes. If we could fight you guys without lagging to hell and back I'm sure I'd be far less cranky about the stacking of warbands, and I do understand your point about the importance of nurturing and training the pugs so they don't rage quit after multiple wipes by groups like ours. I have to give kudos to DiG on AD Haderus for taking the same role and I know we love fighting them when the server can handle their numbers.

This is as I say just a suggestion (as I don't pay your sub after all) but I'm sure your core group would benefit from stepping away from the numbers and trying VE/Fantasia and whoever else are the top tier DC and AD groups on TF now on more even numerical footings if as you say they're looking to improve and step up their game. Even send them over to Haderus to take us on from time to time while your other warbands hold the fort on TF - we'd love that and would even be prepared to give them pointers as we used to with Slywolf, Unruh and other EP opponents when they were switching their game up by pitting themselves against us. I'm sure VE and Fantasia would do the same as despite what zyk says as clearly he hasn't experienced it there is a real camaraderie and respect as well as rivalry amongst the other serious pvp guilds as both Steve from VE and Jules from Haxus have attested to in this thread. Fighting outnumbered or on more even numbers against more experienced (and that's all we are really) opponents allows far less leeway to make mistakes so you don't tend to repeat them once you've made them a couple of times.

Stepping up your core into a more elite role while continuing to pug wrangle separately would help out EP in the game a great deal I'm sure, and having better guilds to fight more evenly is a hell of a lot more fun for the top tier guilds too. None of us want to see EP a lame duck. We've had that on Haderus until fairly recently and its far more fun to be back in a 3 way struggle again rather than a 2 way one as with the population advantage AD has here (at least until this weekend), we really need that too to take the pressure off us as well while adding back that fun dimension a 3rd equally strong faction brings to the game.

Well said. This is exactly what I've been trying to explain to Pact Militia for the past 6months.
Offered their raid leaders to give them personnal training on raiding nights.
Offered to specifically train their members who need assistance one at a time.
Can't help someone who doesn't ask for help and won't force it either.

Numbers are not the answer. Numbers will increase your chances to win, but will decrease the quality of gameplay of everybody else on the server as the server lags to death. Stepping up your gameplay is much more profitable for everybody.

It's good to take a moment to analyze what you've done wrong after a wipe, but it's even better to go seek help from more experienced players and ask for advices to get better at what you're doing. Especially when they are begging to assist.

(This is also are response to some of maximillians points)

Frozn has always had an outstretched arm and that is appreciated. That being said I wanted to touch on a few points.
We are now shooting for running near weekly raid lead sessions. The one's we have been quite the success.
In the core raid we are reviewing the builds of each indvidual player and overall theorycrafting new builds tactics and strategies after each wipe.(win or lose, what we did good or bad) Any good and applicable info is posted for the regular raid to use.

In terms of numbers and stacking it's a crutch pure and simple. I really enjoy map control and I have no moral issue using every asset available to me. However stacking the core with the regular raid is something I usually avoid. It's hard to see what you did wrong. With my top priority being core atm I've been splitting us up a lot so I can get a better look at what we are missing. (whitefall mountain was to good so we had to Bring everyone)(also anytime I attack chal, gotta zerg that one hard)

In terms of lag like I said I try to spread out more for logical map control reasons but I'm still working on it. How cool would it be to have 1 pact raid could handle elite guilds like VE? Then be able to have 2 of those raids? We could do so much with that.

I think I will take the core raid to haddy from time to time. As long as I know EP will win trueflame that month. We've already done it a couple times and had good fun (I have a bad obsession with map control)

We have a very large and diverse guild with over 460 players active in the last week and a half. There so much untapped potential in there. So many amazing players and personalities. I want to give them the tools to understand the meta and encouragement for those that interested lead raids, theorycrafting formations, builds and tactics for the guild to use and much more. I only got into this game in September and not all but for a lot of our officers and players this is their first really competitive PvP guild in an MMO. We are trying our best to learn the meta and help each other out. I will be the first to say I don't know everything and I absolutely love advice from more experienced players and raid leads. I look up to you guys and love being to fight at your level from time to time. I look forward doing it more. If anyone ever has anything to share feel free to whisper me @NACtron in game.

Sorry for the long text wall. I typed from my phone, sure to have a ton of errors

Zheg

NACtron wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

NACtron wrote: »

I believe numbers is something guilds (especially newer guilds with less experience) that if available should be used to stay competitive and play the map. This has benefits for both the pugs and the elite guilds that get massive laggy plates of AP given to them from time to time. It takes time to refine a group to the point where they don't need numbers to wipe elite groups or groups of regular players their size. Numbers provide safety to the learn the games meta and not rage quit due to all of the steam rolling elite guilds do to pugs.

Map control is the key to winning the campaign as a whole. Mostly, we felt we were fighting DC only this campaign. We'd love AD to make a strong push here as well (or I would).

I see Pact (and LFG) as performing a vital roll to the health of EP in PvP. What other group is happy to take people who are new to PvP (or even new to MMOs) and show them the way of the joy of PvP? We have the elite groups, but if you're a beginner, that's not somewhere you can begin.

If you listen in TS, bring siege, stay-on-crown (but not too tight) you have a place in my raid (and in any general Pact raid). I want to share the joy of PvP with everyone.

And ultimately, that's why I shared that video in the first place, because I wanted to show everyone the shear FUN we were having. It wouldn't have mattered if VE wiped us every single time (well, maybe a little bit) because we were all having a BLAST.

And for me, that's what PvP is about. And I want to share that with as many people as possible.

I get it and kudos to you for looking after the new players - people like you are a valuable part of our community. I wouldn't for an instant try to tell you how to play the game at the level you're pitching. However as a suggestion, try to spread your groups out a wee bit as stacking large groups causes serious lag and frame rate drop, not just for you (as shown in your video), but also for your allies (see Jule's from Haxus' latest video) and your enemies (as I have experienced first hand). Those of us who have played since before the abortive lighting patch no that ZOS did something that borked its servers and made it difficult for them to handle large numbers on screen after that patch if those large numbers were all coordinating skills like aoes. If we could fight you guys without lagging to hell and back I'm sure I'd be far less cranky about the stacking of warbands, and I do understand your point about the importance of nurturing and training the pugs so they don't rage quit after multiple wipes by groups like ours. I have to give kudos to DiG on AD Haderus for taking the same role and I know we love fighting them when the server can handle their numbers.

This is as I say just a suggestion (as I don't pay your sub after all) but I'm sure your core group would benefit from stepping away from the numbers and trying VE/Fantasia and whoever else are the top tier DC and AD groups on TF now on more even numerical footings if as you say they're looking to improve and step up their game. Even send them over to Haderus to take us on from time to time while your other warbands hold the fort on TF - we'd love that and would even be prepared to give them pointers as we used to with Slywolf, Unruh and other EP opponents when they were switching their game up by pitting themselves against us. I'm sure VE and Fantasia would do the same as despite what zyk says as clearly he hasn't experienced it there is a real camaraderie and respect as well as rivalry amongst the other serious pvp guilds as both Steve from VE and Jules from Haxus have attested to in this thread. Fighting outnumbered or on more even numbers against more experienced (and that's all we are really) opponents allows far less leeway to make mistakes so you don't tend to repeat them once you've made them a couple of times.

Stepping up your core into a more elite role while continuing to pug wrangle separately would help out EP in the game a great deal I'm sure, and having better guilds to fight more evenly is a hell of a lot more fun for the top tier guilds too. None of us want to see EP a lame duck. We've had that on Haderus until fairly recently and its far more fun to be back in a 3 way struggle again rather than a 2 way one as with the population advantage AD has here (at least until this weekend), we really need that too to take the pressure off us as well while adding back that fun dimension a 3rd equally strong faction brings to the game.

Well said. This is exactly what I've been trying to explain to Pact Militia for the past 6months.
Offered their raid leaders to give them personnal training on raiding nights.
Offered to specifically train their members who need assistance one at a time.
Can't help someone who doesn't ask for help and won't force it either.

Numbers are not the answer. Numbers will increase your chances to win, but will decrease the quality of gameplay of everybody else on the server as the server lags to death. Stepping up your gameplay is much more profitable for everybody.

It's good to take a moment to analyze what you've done wrong after a wipe, but it's even better to go seek help from more experienced players and ask for advices to get better at what you're doing. Especially when they are begging to assist.

(This is also are response to some of maximillians points)

Frozn has always had an outstretched arm and that is appreciated. That being said I wanted to touch on a few points.
We are now shooting for running near weekly raid lead sessions. The one's we have been quite the success.
In the core raid we are reviewing the builds of each indvidual player and overall theorycrafting new builds tactics and strategies after each wipe.(win or lose, what we did good or bad) Any good and applicable info is posted for the regular raid to use.

In terms of numbers and stacking it's a crutch pure and simple. I really enjoy map control and I have no moral issue using every asset available to me. However stacking the core with the regular raid is something I usually avoid. It's hard to see what you did wrong. With my top priority being core atm I've been splitting us up a lot so I can get a better look at what we are missing. (whitefall mountain was to good so we had to Bring everyone)(also anytime I attack chal, gotta zerg that one hard)

In terms of lag like I said I try to spread out more for logical map control reasons but I'm still working on it. How cool would it be to have 1 pact raid could handle elite guilds like VE? Then be able to have 2 of those raids? We could do so much with that.

I think I will take the core raid to haddy from time to time. As long as I know EP will win trueflame that month. We've already done it a couple times and had good fun (I have a bad obsession with map control)

We have a very large and diverse guild with over 460 players active in the last week and a half. There so much untapped potential in there. So many amazing players and personalities. I want to give them the tools to understand the meta and encouragement for those that interested lead raids, theorycrafting formations, builds and tactics for the guild to use and much more. I only got into this game in September and not all but for a lot of our officers and players this is their first really competitive PvP guild in an MMO. We are trying our best to learn the meta and help each other out. I will be the first to say I don't know everything and I absolutely love advice from more experienced players and raid leads. I look up to you guys and love being to fight at your level from time to time. I look forward doing it more. If anyone ever has anything to share feel free to whisper me @NACtron in game.

Sorry for the long text wall. I typed from my phone, sure to have a ton of errors

MOST of the time I enjoy fighting you guys (minus the bombard BS). To your credit, you will keep coming and coming and ego seems to never be an issue. There are other guilds out there that will wipe once and log for the night.

We enjoy fighting outnumbered; if it was important enough or we cared enough, it's not hard to stack with other blue guilds to combat stacked reds, but that's not the issue. You talked of winning the campaign, but the pvdoor spec when no one is online to challenge it is disgusting, whether it's your crew or not. I heard there was a 60 man red group running around midday today against 1 bar yellow and 2 bar blue (or vice versa, whatever). I'd like to think there's a great deal of chill when it comes to how I think of you guys, but talking about winning the campaign made me throw up a little in my mouth. If red gets dethroned almost every night, loses all their scrolls, and loses most if not all of their keeps as soon as primetime rolls around and there are actual challengers to contest you, please, never again call that winning. ZOS has been incapable of addressing night/day capping, or grossly imbalanced populations, but that doesn't mean one should celebrate the results of a gigantic group rolling the map when no one is online. If you have a grossly inflated population, there's not much that can be done, but there's little excuse to zerg down the remaining opponents, and there's little excuse to push past the emp ring.

Run your group/s the way you want, I can't fault you for that. But please never again talk of daycapped campaign scores as 'winning'.

PhatGrimReaper

Zheg wrote: »

NACtron wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

NACtron wrote: »

I believe numbers is something guilds (especially newer guilds with less experience) that if available should be used to stay competitive and play the map. This has benefits for both the pugs and the elite guilds that get massive laggy plates of AP given to them from time to time. It takes time to refine a group to the point where they don't need numbers to wipe elite groups or groups of regular players their size. Numbers provide safety to the learn the games meta and not rage quit due to all of the steam rolling elite guilds do to pugs.

Map control is the key to winning the campaign as a whole. Mostly, we felt we were fighting DC only this campaign. We'd love AD to make a strong push here as well (or I would).

I see Pact (and LFG) as performing a vital roll to the health of EP in PvP. What other group is happy to take people who are new to PvP (or even new to MMOs) and show them the way of the joy of PvP? We have the elite groups, but if you're a beginner, that's not somewhere you can begin.

If you listen in TS, bring siege, stay-on-crown (but not too tight) you have a place in my raid (and in any general Pact raid). I want to share the joy of PvP with everyone.

And ultimately, that's why I shared that video in the first place, because I wanted to show everyone the shear FUN we were having. It wouldn't have mattered if VE wiped us every single time (well, maybe a little bit) because we were all having a BLAST.

And for me, that's what PvP is about. And I want to share that with as many people as possible.

I get it and kudos to you for looking after the new players - people like you are a valuable part of our community. I wouldn't for an instant try to tell you how to play the game at the level you're pitching. However as a suggestion, try to spread your groups out a wee bit as stacking large groups causes serious lag and frame rate drop, not just for you (as shown in your video), but also for your allies (see Jule's from Haxus' latest video) and your enemies (as I have experienced first hand). Those of us who have played since before the abortive lighting patch no that ZOS did something that borked its servers and made it difficult for them to handle large numbers on screen after that patch if those large numbers were all coordinating skills like aoes. If we could fight you guys without lagging to hell and back I'm sure I'd be far less cranky about the stacking of warbands, and I do understand your point about the importance of nurturing and training the pugs so they don't rage quit after multiple wipes by groups like ours. I have to give kudos to DiG on AD Haderus for taking the same role and I know we love fighting them when the server can handle their numbers.

This is as I say just a suggestion (as I don't pay your sub after all) but I'm sure your core group would benefit from stepping away from the numbers and trying VE/Fantasia and whoever else are the top tier DC and AD groups on TF now on more even numerical footings if as you say they're looking to improve and step up their game. Even send them over to Haderus to take us on from time to time while your other warbands hold the fort on TF - we'd love that and would even be prepared to give them pointers as we used to with Slywolf, Unruh and other EP opponents when they were switching their game up by pitting themselves against us. I'm sure VE and Fantasia would do the same as despite what zyk says as clearly he hasn't experienced it there is a real camaraderie and respect as well as rivalry amongst the other serious pvp guilds as both Steve from VE and Jules from Haxus have attested to in this thread. Fighting outnumbered or on more even numbers against more experienced (and that's all we are really) opponents allows far less leeway to make mistakes so you don't tend to repeat them once you've made them a couple of times.

Stepping up your core into a more elite role while continuing to pug wrangle separately would help out EP in the game a great deal I'm sure, and having better guilds to fight more evenly is a hell of a lot more fun for the top tier guilds too. None of us want to see EP a lame duck. We've had that on Haderus until fairly recently and its far more fun to be back in a 3 way struggle again rather than a 2 way one as with the population advantage AD has here (at least until this weekend), we really need that too to take the pressure off us as well while adding back that fun dimension a 3rd equally strong faction brings to the game.

Well said. This is exactly what I've been trying to explain to Pact Militia for the past 6months.
Offered their raid leaders to give them personnal training on raiding nights.
Offered to specifically train their members who need assistance one at a time.
Can't help someone who doesn't ask for help and won't force it either.

Numbers are not the answer. Numbers will increase your chances to win, but will decrease the quality of gameplay of everybody else on the server as the server lags to death. Stepping up your gameplay is much more profitable for everybody.

It's good to take a moment to analyze what you've done wrong after a wipe, but it's even better to go seek help from more experienced players and ask for advices to get better at what you're doing. Especially when they are begging to assist.

(This is also are response to some of maximillians points)

Frozn has always had an outstretched arm and that is appreciated. That being said I wanted to touch on a few points.
We are now shooting for running near weekly raid lead sessions. The one's we have been quite the success.
In the core raid we are reviewing the builds of each indvidual player and overall theorycrafting new builds tactics and strategies after each wipe.(win or lose, what we did good or bad) Any good and applicable info is posted for the regular raid to use.

In terms of numbers and stacking it's a crutch pure and simple. I really enjoy map control and I have no moral issue using every asset available to me. However stacking the core with the regular raid is something I usually avoid. It's hard to see what you did wrong. With my top priority being core atm I've been splitting us up a lot so I can get a better look at what we are missing. (whitefall mountain was to good so we had to Bring everyone)(also anytime I attack chal, gotta zerg that one hard)

In terms of lag like I said I try to spread out more for logical map control reasons but I'm still working on it. How cool would it be to have 1 pact raid could handle elite guilds like VE? Then be able to have 2 of those raids? We could do so much with that.

I think I will take the core raid to haddy from time to time. As long as I know EP will win trueflame that month. We've already done it a couple times and had good fun (I have a bad obsession with map control)

We have a very large and diverse guild with over 460 players active in the last week and a half. There so much untapped potential in there. So many amazing players and personalities. I want to give them the tools to understand the meta and encouragement for those that interested lead raids, theorycrafting formations, builds and tactics for the guild to use and much more. I only got into this game in September and not all but for a lot of our officers and players this is their first really competitive PvP guild in an MMO. We are trying our best to learn the meta and help each other out. I will be the first to say I don't know everything and I absolutely love advice from more experienced players and raid leads. I look up to you guys and love being to fight at your level from time to time. I look forward doing it more. If anyone ever has anything to share feel free to whisper me @NACtron in game.

Sorry for the long text wall. I typed from my phone, sure to have a ton of errors

MOST of the time I enjoy fighting you guys (minus the bombard BS). To your credit, you will keep coming and coming and ego seems to never be an issue. There are other guilds out there that will wipe once and log for the night.

We enjoy fighting outnumbered; if it was important enough or we cared enough, it's not hard to stack with other blue guilds to combat stacked reds, but that's not the issue. You talked of winning the campaign, but the pvdoor spec when no one is online to challenge it is disgusting, whether it's your crew or not. I heard there was a 60 man red group running around midday today against 1 bar yellow and 2 bar blue (or vice versa, whatever). I'd like to think there's a great deal of chill when it comes to how I think of you guys, but talking about winning the campaign made me throw up a little in my mouth. If red gets dethroned almost every night, loses all their scrolls, and loses most if not all of their keeps as soon as primetime rolls around and there are actual challengers to contest you, please, never again call that winning. ZOS has been incapable of addressing night/day capping, or grossly imbalanced populations, but that doesn't mean one should celebrate the results of a gigantic group rolling the map when no one is online. If you have a grossly inflated population, there's not much that can be done, but there's little excuse to zerg down the remaining opponents, and there's little excuse to push past the emp ring.

Run your group/s the way you want, I can't fault you for that. But please never again talk of daycapped campaign scores as 'winning'.

YUP!!!

allen-iverson

460.... active players.... in pact militia.....

@NACtron you are the reincarnation of brandon south ga

Ghostbane

allen-iverson wrote: »

460.... active players.... in pact militia.....

@NACtron you are the reincarnation of brandon south ga

40 to go before you can start throwing names about

allen-iverson

Zheg wrote: »

NACtron wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

NACtron wrote: »

I believe numbers is something guilds (especially newer guilds with less experience) that if available should be used to stay competitive and play the map. This has benefits for both the pugs and the elite guilds that get massive laggy plates of AP given to them from time to time. It takes time to refine a group to the point where they don't need numbers to wipe elite groups or groups of regular players their size. Numbers provide safety to the learn the games meta and not rage quit due to all of the steam rolling elite guilds do to pugs.

Map control is the key to winning the campaign as a whole. Mostly, we felt we were fighting DC only this campaign. We'd love AD to make a strong push here as well (or I would).

I see Pact (and LFG) as performing a vital roll to the health of EP in PvP. What other group is happy to take people who are new to PvP (or even new to MMOs) and show them the way of the joy of PvP? We have the elite groups, but if you're a beginner, that's not somewhere you can begin.

If you listen in TS, bring siege, stay-on-crown (but not too tight) you have a place in my raid (and in any general Pact raid). I want to share the joy of PvP with everyone.

And ultimately, that's why I shared that video in the first place, because I wanted to show everyone the shear FUN we were having. It wouldn't have mattered if VE wiped us every single time (well, maybe a little bit) because we were all having a BLAST.

And for me, that's what PvP is about. And I want to share that with as many people as possible.

I get it and kudos to you for looking after the new players - people like you are a valuable part of our community. I wouldn't for an instant try to tell you how to play the game at the level you're pitching. However as a suggestion, try to spread your groups out a wee bit as stacking large groups causes serious lag and frame rate drop, not just for you (as shown in your video), but also for your allies (see Jule's from Haxus' latest video) and your enemies (as I have experienced first hand). Those of us who have played since before the abortive lighting patch no that ZOS did something that borked its servers and made it difficult for them to handle large numbers on screen after that patch if those large numbers were all coordinating skills like aoes. If we could fight you guys without lagging to hell and back I'm sure I'd be far less cranky about the stacking of warbands, and I do understand your point about the importance of nurturing and training the pugs so they don't rage quit after multiple wipes by groups like ours. I have to give kudos to DiG on AD Haderus for taking the same role and I know we love fighting them when the server can handle their numbers.

This is as I say just a suggestion (as I don't pay your sub after all) but I'm sure your core group would benefit from stepping away from the numbers and trying VE/Fantasia and whoever else are the top tier DC and AD groups on TF now on more even numerical footings if as you say they're looking to improve and step up their game. Even send them over to Haderus to take us on from time to time while your other warbands hold the fort on TF - we'd love that and would even be prepared to give them pointers as we used to with Slywolf, Unruh and other EP opponents when they were switching their game up by pitting themselves against us. I'm sure VE and Fantasia would do the same as despite what zyk says as clearly he hasn't experienced it there is a real camaraderie and respect as well as rivalry amongst the other serious pvp guilds as both Steve from VE and Jules from Haxus have attested to in this thread. Fighting outnumbered or on more even numbers against more experienced (and that's all we are really) opponents allows far less leeway to make mistakes so you don't tend to repeat them once you've made them a couple of times.

Stepping up your core into a more elite role while continuing to pug wrangle separately would help out EP in the game a great deal I'm sure, and having better guilds to fight more evenly is a hell of a lot more fun for the top tier guilds too. None of us want to see EP a lame duck. We've had that on Haderus until fairly recently and its far more fun to be back in a 3 way struggle again rather than a 2 way one as with the population advantage AD has here (at least until this weekend), we really need that too to take the pressure off us as well while adding back that fun dimension a 3rd equally strong faction brings to the game.

Well said. This is exactly what I've been trying to explain to Pact Militia for the past 6months.
Offered their raid leaders to give them personnal training on raiding nights.
Offered to specifically train their members who need assistance one at a time.
Can't help someone who doesn't ask for help and won't force it either.

Numbers are not the answer. Numbers will increase your chances to win, but will decrease the quality of gameplay of everybody else on the server as the server lags to death. Stepping up your gameplay is much more profitable for everybody.

It's good to take a moment to analyze what you've done wrong after a wipe, but it's even better to go seek help from more experienced players and ask for advices to get better at what you're doing. Especially when they are begging to assist.

(This is also are response to some of maximillians points)

Frozn has always had an outstretched arm and that is appreciated. That being said I wanted to touch on a few points.
We are now shooting for running near weekly raid lead sessions. The one's we have been quite the success.
In the core raid we are reviewing the builds of each indvidual player and overall theorycrafting new builds tactics and strategies after each wipe.(win or lose, what we did good or bad) Any good and applicable info is posted for the regular raid to use.

In terms of numbers and stacking it's a crutch pure and simple. I really enjoy map control and I have no moral issue using every asset available to me. However stacking the core with the regular raid is something I usually avoid. It's hard to see what you did wrong. With my top priority being core atm I've been splitting us up a lot so I can get a better look at what we are missing. (whitefall mountain was to good so we had to Bring everyone)(also anytime I attack chal, gotta zerg that one hard)

In terms of lag like I said I try to spread out more for logical map control reasons but I'm still working on it. How cool would it be to have 1 pact raid could handle elite guilds like VE? Then be able to have 2 of those raids? We could do so much with that.

I think I will take the core raid to haddy from time to time. As long as I know EP will win trueflame that month. We've already done it a couple times and had good fun (I have a bad obsession with map control)

We have a very large and diverse guild with over 460 players active in the last week and a half. There so much untapped potential in there. So many amazing players and personalities. I want to give them the tools to understand the meta and encouragement for those that interested lead raids, theorycrafting formations, builds and tactics for the guild to use and much more. I only got into this game in September and not all but for a lot of our officers and players this is their first really competitive PvP guild in an MMO. We are trying our best to learn the meta and help each other out. I will be the first to say I don't know everything and I absolutely love advice from more experienced players and raid leads. I look up to you guys and love being to fight at your level from time to time. I look forward doing it more. If anyone ever has anything to share feel free to whisper me @NACtron in game.

Sorry for the long text wall. I typed from my phone, sure to have a ton of errors

MOST of the time I enjoy fighting you guys (minus the bombard BS). To your credit, you will keep coming and coming and ego seems to never be an issue. There are other guilds out there that will wipe once and log for the night.

We enjoy fighting outnumbered; if it was important enough or we cared enough, it's not hard to stack with other blue guilds to combat stacked reds, but that's not the issue. You talked of winning the campaign, but the pvdoor spec when no one is online to challenge it is disgusting, whether it's your crew or not. I heard there was a 60 man red group running around midday today against 1 bar yellow and 2 bar blue (or vice versa, whatever). I'd like to think there's a great deal of chill when it comes to how I think of you guys, but talking about winning the campaign made me throw up a little in my mouth. If red gets dethroned almost every night, loses all their scrolls, and loses most if not all of their keeps as soon as primetime rolls around and there are actual challengers to contest you, please, never again call that winning. ZOS has been incapable of addressing night/day capping, or grossly imbalanced populations, but that doesn't mean one should celebrate the results of a gigantic group rolling the map when no one is online. If you have a grossly inflated population, there's not much that can be done, but there's little excuse to zerg down the remaining opponents, and there's little excuse to push past the emp ring.

Run your group/s the way you want, I can't fault you for that. But please never again talk of daycapped campaign scores as 'winning'.

Once competition logs in, EP gets their warband stacking pooties kicked in. Once prime-time ends and competition logs out your pop-locked faction caps and holds everything against 1 to 2 bar competition (most of which is probably hiding from the 60 man zergs in the imperial city) for 12+ hours of non-compete scoring.

so congrats to you and your "winning".

And when it comes to your obsessive map control i remember back when azuras was the popular campaign you used to just pvdoor objectives right after we left to move onto the next objective in order to avoid fighting us. At least that much has changed

allen-iverson

whoops i quoted the zhegmeister instead of Nikolai

Ishammael

Props for creating a new team on EP side. EP desperately needs new leadership.

Couple of things:
1. K-Hole, when running a group, actively looks for any fight. That is, after all, the point of PvP. When Haxus was running we seek them out. When AD is running deep raids, we chase that, too.
2. K-Hole homes Haderus precisely to avoid lag. If a huge AD/EP fight erupts at a keep, we more often than not leave it alone. We are accused of the "lag-switch" just like Havoc used to be in 1.6. In both cases its complete BS.
3. I ran LoM for a few months just after Grunt quit. Stacking more than one raid will win fights... but it won't make you better. And it won't strengthen your team. Force numbers to 16 max and work on team work, overlapping builds, etc. I very much respect the difficulty of large guilds, conflicting personalities, and the like.
4. The K-Hole group is very much a team. Players adjust builds, skills, gear, and characters as the group dynamic swings when players drop and add.
5. I would love to fight side-by-side with VE, to defend the glorious Darfal Covant against the yellow and red hoards. Unfortunately, the scale enemies required to defeat us would break the severs. =D

frozywozy

allen-iverson wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

NACtron wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

NACtron wrote: »

I believe numbers is something guilds (especially newer guilds with less experience) that if available should be used to stay competitive and play the map. This has benefits for both the pugs and the elite guilds that get massive laggy plates of AP given to them from time to time. It takes time to refine a group to the point where they don't need numbers to wipe elite groups or groups of regular players their size. Numbers provide safety to the learn the games meta and not rage quit due to all of the steam rolling elite guilds do to pugs.

Map control is the key to winning the campaign as a whole. Mostly, we felt we were fighting DC only this campaign. We'd love AD to make a strong push here as well (or I would).

I see Pact (and LFG) as performing a vital roll to the health of EP in PvP. What other group is happy to take people who are new to PvP (or even new to MMOs) and show them the way of the joy of PvP? We have the elite groups, but if you're a beginner, that's not somewhere you can begin.

If you listen in TS, bring siege, stay-on-crown (but not too tight) you have a place in my raid (and in any general Pact raid). I want to share the joy of PvP with everyone.

And ultimately, that's why I shared that video in the first place, because I wanted to show everyone the shear FUN we were having. It wouldn't have mattered if VE wiped us every single time (well, maybe a little bit) because we were all having a BLAST.

And for me, that's what PvP is about. And I want to share that with as many people as possible.

I get it and kudos to you for looking after the new players - people like you are a valuable part of our community. I wouldn't for an instant try to tell you how to play the game at the level you're pitching. However as a suggestion, try to spread your groups out a wee bit as stacking large groups causes serious lag and frame rate drop, not just for you (as shown in your video), but also for your allies (see Jule's from Haxus' latest video) and your enemies (as I have experienced first hand). Those of us who have played since before the abortive lighting patch no that ZOS did something that borked its servers and made it difficult for them to handle large numbers on screen after that patch if those large numbers were all coordinating skills like aoes. If we could fight you guys without lagging to hell and back I'm sure I'd be far less cranky about the stacking of warbands, and I do understand your point about the importance of nurturing and training the pugs so they don't rage quit after multiple wipes by groups like ours. I have to give kudos to DiG on AD Haderus for taking the same role and I know we love fighting them when the server can handle their numbers.

This is as I say just a suggestion (as I don't pay your sub after all) but I'm sure your core group would benefit from stepping away from the numbers and trying VE/Fantasia and whoever else are the top tier DC and AD groups on TF now on more even numerical footings if as you say they're looking to improve and step up their game. Even send them over to Haderus to take us on from time to time while your other warbands hold the fort on TF - we'd love that and would even be prepared to give them pointers as we used to with Slywolf, Unruh and other EP opponents when they were switching their game up by pitting themselves against us. I'm sure VE and Fantasia would do the same as despite what zyk says as clearly he hasn't experienced it there is a real camaraderie and respect as well as rivalry amongst the other serious pvp guilds as both Steve from VE and Jules from Haxus have attested to in this thread. Fighting outnumbered or on more even numbers against more experienced (and that's all we are really) opponents allows far less leeway to make mistakes so you don't tend to repeat them once you've made them a couple of times.

Stepping up your core into a more elite role while continuing to pug wrangle separately would help out EP in the game a great deal I'm sure, and having better guilds to fight more evenly is a hell of a lot more fun for the top tier guilds too. None of us want to see EP a lame duck. We've had that on Haderus until fairly recently and its far more fun to be back in a 3 way struggle again rather than a 2 way one as with the population advantage AD has here (at least until this weekend), we really need that too to take the pressure off us as well while adding back that fun dimension a 3rd equally strong faction brings to the game.

Well said. This is exactly what I've been trying to explain to Pact Militia for the past 6months.
Offered their raid leaders to give them personnal training on raiding nights.
Offered to specifically train their members who need assistance one at a time.
Can't help someone who doesn't ask for help and won't force it either.

Numbers are not the answer. Numbers will increase your chances to win, but will decrease the quality of gameplay of everybody else on the server as the server lags to death. Stepping up your gameplay is much more profitable for everybody.

It's good to take a moment to analyze what you've done wrong after a wipe, but it's even better to go seek help from more experienced players and ask for advices to get better at what you're doing. Especially when they are begging to assist.

(This is also are response to some of maximillians points)

Frozn has always had an outstretched arm and that is appreciated. That being said I wanted to touch on a few points.
We are now shooting for running near weekly raid lead sessions. The one's we have been quite the success.
In the core raid we are reviewing the builds of each indvidual player and overall theorycrafting new builds tactics and strategies after each wipe.(win or lose, what we did good or bad) Any good and applicable info is posted for the regular raid to use.

In terms of numbers and stacking it's a crutch pure and simple. I really enjoy map control and I have no moral issue using every asset available to me. However stacking the core with the regular raid is something I usually avoid. It's hard to see what you did wrong. With my top priority being core atm I've been splitting us up a lot so I can get a better look at what we are missing. (whitefall mountain was to good so we had to Bring everyone)(also anytime I attack chal, gotta zerg that one hard)

In terms of lag like I said I try to spread out more for logical map control reasons but I'm still working on it. How cool would it be to have 1 pact raid could handle elite guilds like VE? Then be able to have 2 of those raids? We could do so much with that.

I think I will take the core raid to haddy from time to time. As long as I know EP will win trueflame that month. We've already done it a couple times and had good fun (I have a bad obsession with map control)

We have a very large and diverse guild with over 460 players active in the last week and a half. There so much untapped potential in there. So many amazing players and personalities. I want to give them the tools to understand the meta and encouragement for those that interested lead raids, theorycrafting formations, builds and tactics for the guild to use and much more. I only got into this game in September and not all but for a lot of our officers and players this is their first really competitive PvP guild in an MMO. We are trying our best to learn the meta and help each other out. I will be the first to say I don't know everything and I absolutely love advice from more experienced players and raid leads. I look up to you guys and love being to fight at your level from time to time. I look forward doing it more. If anyone ever has anything to share feel free to whisper me @NACtron in game.

Sorry for the long text wall. I typed from my phone, sure to have a ton of errors

MOST of the time I enjoy fighting you guys (minus the bombard BS). To your credit, you will keep coming and coming and ego seems to never be an issue. There are other guilds out there that will wipe once and log for the night.

We enjoy fighting outnumbered; if it was important enough or we cared enough, it's not hard to stack with other blue guilds to combat stacked reds, but that's not the issue. You talked of winning the campaign, but the pvdoor spec when no one is online to challenge it is disgusting, whether it's your crew or not. I heard there was a 60 man red group running around midday today against 1 bar yellow and 2 bar blue (or vice versa, whatever). I'd like to think there's a great deal of chill when it comes to how I think of you guys, but talking about winning the campaign made me throw up a little in my mouth. If red gets dethroned almost every night, loses all their scrolls, and loses most if not all of their keeps as soon as primetime rolls around and there are actual challengers to contest you, please, never again call that winning. ZOS has been incapable of addressing night/day capping, or grossly imbalanced populations, but that doesn't mean one should celebrate the results of a gigantic group rolling the map when no one is online. If you have a grossly inflated population, there's not much that can be done, but there's little excuse to zerg down the remaining opponents, and there's little excuse to push past the emp ring.

Run your group/s the way you want, I can't fault you for that. But please never again talk of daycapped campaign scores as 'winning'.

Once competition logs in, EP gets their warband stacking pooties kicked in. Once prime-time ends and competition logs out your pop-locked faction caps and holds everything against 1 to 2 bar competition (most of which is probably hiding from the 60 man zergs in the imperial city) for 12+ hours of non-compete scoring.

so congrats to you and your "winning".

And when it comes to your obsessive map control i remember back when azuras was the popular campaign you used to just pvdoor objectives right after we left to move onto the next objective in order to avoid fighting us. At least that much has changed

There is nothing wrong about hitting where the enemy doesn't expect you to be. It is called strategies. Not everyone play this game only for straight killing. Some people play the game to win the campaign before anything. This being said, I agree that night capping should be addressed with dynamic populations.