[VIDEO] Pact Milita vs Vehemence for the Battle of White Fall Mountain

Aenlir · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

Mohican! Hi! Nice to connect with you here in the forums. ^_^

You cause us problems! ^_^ If you or your group are hanging around in EP territory we can't LEAVE you be because you'll just keep taking resources and distracting us. And you're tough! If we need a big group to take you down, then we have to do it, so we can move away to take other objectives.

We have accused you of cheating, it's true, but what you do with a small group doesn't seem possible, so I'm sure you can forgive us. When I'm in the raid, I'll keep it under control from now on (I don't play much on my Wed-Fri, your Tue-Thur).

I'd LOVE to see a vid of your group fighting VE or Haxus! Now THAT would be a show of skill! ^_^

Thank you for responding. The complaint is more about being treated disrespectfully. We are very used to getting zerged.

I have not been recording, but glory has some clips. We have fought haxus many times, and we had one good battle with VE. His perspective might not be the most entertaining, but we can get him to uploaded them.

That says it all right there. Best AD group and best DC group have had only one good fight. I agree that being outnumbered 2 to 1 is not an option and impossible to win with the actual meta with skilled players on both sides. But it says much about what kind of competition AD and DC has nowadays. No wonder the Roebeck <=> Ash route is barely contested unless EP actually go there and make it happens. Thanks for your honesty Mojican.

What Mojican meant by one good fight, was that we more or less had them wiped before respawn at their camp one time. We have seen them plenty but we will be overwhelmed if we are at a blue objective, or sometimes they leave us if we are fighting red.

Try taking 5-8 people and fighting a VE raid. Not going to be a good fight. It's more fun seeing how long we can last against stacked EP raids.

frozywozy · May 2016

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

Mohican! Hi! Nice to connect with you here in the forums. ^_^

You cause us problems! ^_^ If you or your group are hanging around in EP territory we can't LEAVE you be because you'll just keep taking resources and distracting us. And you're tough! If we need a big group to take you down, then we have to do it, so we can move away to take other objectives.

We have accused you of cheating, it's true, but what you do with a small group doesn't seem possible, so I'm sure you can forgive us. When I'm in the raid, I'll keep it under control from now on (I don't play much on my Wed-Fri, your Tue-Thur).

I'd LOVE to see a vid of your group fighting VE or Haxus! Now THAT would be a show of skill! ^_^

Thank you for responding. The complaint is more about being treated disrespectfully. We are very used to getting zerged.

I have not been recording, but glory has some clips. We have fought haxus many times, and we had one good battle with VE. His perspective might not be the most entertaining, but we can get him to uploaded them.

That says it all right there. Best AD group and best DC group have had only one good fight. I agree that being outnumbered 2 to 1 is not an option and impossible to win with the actual meta with skilled players on both sides. But it says much about what kind of competition AD and DC has nowadays. No wonder the Roebeck <=> Ash route is barely contested unless EP actually go there and make it happens. Thanks for your honesty Mojican.

I would much rather fight yellow all day long, though they zerg at times, it's no where near to the current level that red does it. When it's typical to log onto a map where red has most of the scrolls, emp, and we're pushed back to tri-keeps if not further, why the F would I push down towards yellow? The ones that do push south are the pugs that get yelled at in zone because they're being dumb. Yesterday during primetime had excellent fights between all alliances on all sides of the map - and that's because red hadn't swept the map when no one was logged on beforehand. Balanced maps lead to good fights, food for thought.

I understand the reasoning behind pushing red when they always get scrolls and emp during off hours. I'm not blaming you. I just dislike the performance issues we get when two factions stack their whole populations on one location.

Satiar · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

Mohican! Hi! Nice to connect with you here in the forums. ^_^

You cause us problems! ^_^ If you or your group are hanging around in EP territory we can't LEAVE you be because you'll just keep taking resources and distracting us. And you're tough! If we need a big group to take you down, then we have to do it, so we can move away to take other objectives.

We have accused you of cheating, it's true, but what you do with a small group doesn't seem possible, so I'm sure you can forgive us. When I'm in the raid, I'll keep it under control from now on (I don't play much on my Wed-Fri, your Tue-Thur).

I'd LOVE to see a vid of your group fighting VE or Haxus! Now THAT would be a show of skill! ^_^

Thank you for responding. The complaint is more about being treated disrespectfully. We are very used to getting zerged.

I have not been recording, but glory has some clips. We have fought haxus many times, and we had one good battle with VE. His perspective might not be the most entertaining, but we can get him to uploaded them.

That says it all right there. Best AD group and best DC group have had only one good fight. I agree that being outnumbered 2 to 1 is not an option and impossible to win with the actual meta with skilled players on both sides. But it says much about what kind of competition AD and DC has nowadays. No wonder the Roebeck <=> Ash route is barely contested unless EP actually go there and make it happens. Thanks for your honesty Mojican.

More accurately we don't push where there is little resistance. They have a great little group but we don't play on the same scale, it's going to be fun for neither of us to fight each other with a 3/1 number disparity. When AD had Rage and Deci we fought then *all night* which members of both guilds should be willing to verify for me.

What this actually shows is that one of the best AD groups is under 10 people, so it's no wonder Red can Zerg the north all day: they have no fear of a significant AD force pressuring from the south.

Zheg · May 2016

Satiar wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

Mohican! Hi! Nice to connect with you here in the forums. ^_^

You cause us problems! ^_^ If you or your group are hanging around in EP territory we can't LEAVE you be because you'll just keep taking resources and distracting us. And you're tough! If we need a big group to take you down, then we have to do it, so we can move away to take other objectives.

We have accused you of cheating, it's true, but what you do with a small group doesn't seem possible, so I'm sure you can forgive us. When I'm in the raid, I'll keep it under control from now on (I don't play much on my Wed-Fri, your Tue-Thur).

I'd LOVE to see a vid of your group fighting VE or Haxus! Now THAT would be a show of skill! ^_^

Thank you for responding. The complaint is more about being treated disrespectfully. We are very used to getting zerged.

I have not been recording, but glory has some clips. We have fought haxus many times, and we had one good battle with VE. His perspective might not be the most entertaining, but we can get him to uploaded them.

That says it all right there. Best AD group and best DC group have had only one good fight. I agree that being outnumbered 2 to 1 is not an option and impossible to win with the actual meta with skilled players on both sides. But it says much about what kind of competition AD and DC has nowadays. No wonder the Roebeck <=> Ash route is barely contested unless EP actually go there and make it happens. Thanks for your honesty Mojican.

More accurately we don't push where there is little resistance. They have a great little group but we don't play on the same scale, it's going to be fun for neither of us to fight each other with a 3/1 number disparity. When AD had Rage and Deci we fought then *all night* which members of both guilds should be willing to verify for me.

What this actually shows is that one of the best AD groups is under 10 people, so it's no wonder Red can Zerg the north all day: they have no fear of a significant AD force pressuring from the south.

Hmmm, does this mean Frozn would rather there be more groups running our size to allow for there to be fights all over the map and stop the alliance v alliance fights at a single keep? Can it really be true?

Satiar · May 2016

Aenlir wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

Mohican! Hi! Nice to connect with you here in the forums. ^_^

You cause us problems! ^_^ If you or your group are hanging around in EP territory we can't LEAVE you be because you'll just keep taking resources and distracting us. And you're tough! If we need a big group to take you down, then we have to do it, so we can move away to take other objectives.

We have accused you of cheating, it's true, but what you do with a small group doesn't seem possible, so I'm sure you can forgive us. When I'm in the raid, I'll keep it under control from now on (I don't play much on my Wed-Fri, your Tue-Thur).

I'd LOVE to see a vid of your group fighting VE or Haxus! Now THAT would be a show of skill! ^_^

Thank you for responding. The complaint is more about being treated disrespectfully. We are very used to getting zerged.

I have not been recording, but glory has some clips. We have fought haxus many times, and we had one good battle with VE. His perspective might not be the most entertaining, but we can get him to uploaded them.

That says it all right there. Best AD group and best DC group have had only one good fight. I agree that being outnumbered 2 to 1 is not an option and impossible to win with the actual meta with skilled players on both sides. But it says much about what kind of competition AD and DC has nowadays. No wonder the Roebeck <=> Ash route is barely contested unless EP actually go there and make it happens. Thanks for your honesty Mojican.

What Mojican meant by one good fight, was that we more or less had them wiped before respawn at their camp one time. We have seen them plenty but we will be overwhelmed if we are at a blue objective, or sometimes they leave us if we are fighting red.

Try taking 5-8 people and fighting a VE raid. Not going to be a good fight. It's more fun seeing how long we can last against stacked EP raids.

Yeah, like I said, a surprising fight! There wasn't any siege so I don't think anyone was purging, than by the time I figured out why we were getting precisely zero heals it was too late.

That fight was what prompted several of our members to don that set BTW. Difficult to know how effective something is until you see it used against you.

In retrospect, I think that is the closest we've come to our own "Germantrocity wipes Havoc moment". That I can remember anyways. I'm told we've done some pretty stupid stuff on Drunk Raid Night.

frozywozy · May 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

Mohican! Hi! Nice to connect with you here in the forums. ^_^

You cause us problems! ^_^ If you or your group are hanging around in EP territory we can't LEAVE you be because you'll just keep taking resources and distracting us. And you're tough! If we need a big group to take you down, then we have to do it, so we can move away to take other objectives.

We have accused you of cheating, it's true, but what you do with a small group doesn't seem possible, so I'm sure you can forgive us. When I'm in the raid, I'll keep it under control from now on (I don't play much on my Wed-Fri, your Tue-Thur).

I'd LOVE to see a vid of your group fighting VE or Haxus! Now THAT would be a show of skill! ^_^

Thank you for responding. The complaint is more about being treated disrespectfully. We are very used to getting zerged.

I have not been recording, but glory has some clips. We have fought haxus many times, and we had one good battle with VE. His perspective might not be the most entertaining, but we can get him to uploaded them.

That says it all right there. Best AD group and best DC group have had only one good fight. I agree that being outnumbered 2 to 1 is not an option and impossible to win with the actual meta with skilled players on both sides. But it says much about what kind of competition AD and DC has nowadays. No wonder the Roebeck <=> Ash route is barely contested unless EP actually go there and make it happens. Thanks for your honesty Mojican.

More accurately we don't push where there is little resistance. They have a great little group but we don't play on the same scale, it's going to be fun for neither of us to fight each other with a 3/1 number disparity. When AD had Rage and Deci we fought then *all night* which members of both guilds should be willing to verify for me.

What this actually shows is that one of the best AD groups is under 10 people, so it's no wonder Red can Zerg the north all day: they have no fear of a significant AD force pressuring from the south.

Hmmm, does this mean Frozn would rather there be more groups running our size to allow for there to be fights all over the map and stop the alliance v alliance fights at a single keep? Can it really be true?

I still believe a 16men group size is the perfect balance between keeping the server as stable as possible while still being able to make things happen on the map.

Satiar · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

Mohican! Hi! Nice to connect with you here in the forums. ^_^

You cause us problems! ^_^ If you or your group are hanging around in EP territory we can't LEAVE you be because you'll just keep taking resources and distracting us. And you're tough! If we need a big group to take you down, then we have to do it, so we can move away to take other objectives.

We have accused you of cheating, it's true, but what you do with a small group doesn't seem possible, so I'm sure you can forgive us. When I'm in the raid, I'll keep it under control from now on (I don't play much on my Wed-Fri, your Tue-Thur).

I'd LOVE to see a vid of your group fighting VE or Haxus! Now THAT would be a show of skill! ^_^

Thank you for responding. The complaint is more about being treated disrespectfully. We are very used to getting zerged.

I have not been recording, but glory has some clips. We have fought haxus many times, and we had one good battle with VE. His perspective might not be the most entertaining, but we can get him to uploaded them.

That says it all right there. Best AD group and best DC group have had only one good fight. I agree that being outnumbered 2 to 1 is not an option and impossible to win with the actual meta with skilled players on both sides. But it says much about what kind of competition AD and DC has nowadays. No wonder the Roebeck <=> Ash route is barely contested unless EP actually go there and make it happens. Thanks for your honesty Mojican.

More accurately we don't push where there is little resistance. They have a great little group but we don't play on the same scale, it's going to be fun for neither of us to fight each other with a 3/1 number disparity. When AD had Rage and Deci we fought then *all night* which members of both guilds should be willing to verify for me.

What this actually shows is that one of the best AD groups is under 10 people, so it's no wonder Red can Zerg the north all day: they have no fear of a significant AD force pressuring from the south.

Hmmm, does this mean Frozn would rather there be more groups running our size to allow for there to be fights all over the map and stop the alliance v alliance fights at a single keep? Can it really be true?

I still believe a 16men group size is the perfect balance between keeping the server as stable as possible while still being able to make things happen on the map.

It's that extra 4-8 people that really pushes the server from 200 ping to 999.

frozywozy · May 2016

Satiar wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

Mohican! Hi! Nice to connect with you here in the forums. ^_^

You cause us problems! ^_^ If you or your group are hanging around in EP territory we can't LEAVE you be because you'll just keep taking resources and distracting us. And you're tough! If we need a big group to take you down, then we have to do it, so we can move away to take other objectives.

We have accused you of cheating, it's true, but what you do with a small group doesn't seem possible, so I'm sure you can forgive us. When I'm in the raid, I'll keep it under control from now on (I don't play much on my Wed-Fri, your Tue-Thur).

I'd LOVE to see a vid of your group fighting VE or Haxus! Now THAT would be a show of skill! ^_^

Thank you for responding. The complaint is more about being treated disrespectfully. We are very used to getting zerged.

I have not been recording, but glory has some clips. We have fought haxus many times, and we had one good battle with VE. His perspective might not be the most entertaining, but we can get him to uploaded them.

That says it all right there. Best AD group and best DC group have had only one good fight. I agree that being outnumbered 2 to 1 is not an option and impossible to win with the actual meta with skilled players on both sides. But it says much about what kind of competition AD and DC has nowadays. No wonder the Roebeck <=> Ash route is barely contested unless EP actually go there and make it happens. Thanks for your honesty Mojican.

More accurately we don't push where there is little resistance. They have a great little group but we don't play on the same scale, it's going to be fun for neither of us to fight each other with a 3/1 number disparity. When AD had Rage and Deci we fought then *all night* which members of both guilds should be willing to verify for me.

What this actually shows is that one of the best AD groups is under 10 people, so it's no wonder Red can Zerg the north all day: they have no fear of a significant AD force pressuring from the south.

Hmmm, does this mean Frozn would rather there be more groups running our size to allow for there to be fights all over the map and stop the alliance v alliance fights at a single keep? Can it really be true?

I still believe a 16men group size is the perfect balance between keeping the server as stable as possible while still being able to make things happen on the map.

It's that extra 4-8 people that really pushes the server from 200 ping to 999.

You are being stubborn and ignorant here. I just explained my view as clearly as possible. Don't you understand the concept of "perfect balance" ? I also never said that the group size was the only factor. As you are well aware since we had plenty of discussions about this subject in the past.

Satiar · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

Mohican! Hi! Nice to connect with you here in the forums. ^_^

You cause us problems! ^_^ If you or your group are hanging around in EP territory we can't LEAVE you be because you'll just keep taking resources and distracting us. And you're tough! If we need a big group to take you down, then we have to do it, so we can move away to take other objectives.

We have accused you of cheating, it's true, but what you do with a small group doesn't seem possible, so I'm sure you can forgive us. When I'm in the raid, I'll keep it under control from now on (I don't play much on my Wed-Fri, your Tue-Thur).

I'd LOVE to see a vid of your group fighting VE or Haxus! Now THAT would be a show of skill! ^_^

Thank you for responding. The complaint is more about being treated disrespectfully. We are very used to getting zerged.

I have not been recording, but glory has some clips. We have fought haxus many times, and we had one good battle with VE. His perspective might not be the most entertaining, but we can get him to uploaded them.

That says it all right there. Best AD group and best DC group have had only one good fight. I agree that being outnumbered 2 to 1 is not an option and impossible to win with the actual meta with skilled players on both sides. But it says much about what kind of competition AD and DC has nowadays. No wonder the Roebeck <=> Ash route is barely contested unless EP actually go there and make it happens. Thanks for your honesty Mojican.

More accurately we don't push where there is little resistance. They have a great little group but we don't play on the same scale, it's going to be fun for neither of us to fight each other with a 3/1 number disparity. When AD had Rage and Deci we fought then *all night* which members of both guilds should be willing to verify for me.

What this actually shows is that one of the best AD groups is under 10 people, so it's no wonder Red can Zerg the north all day: they have no fear of a significant AD force pressuring from the south.

Hmmm, does this mean Frozn would rather there be more groups running our size to allow for there to be fights all over the map and stop the alliance v alliance fights at a single keep? Can it really be true?

I still believe a 16men group size is the perfect balance between keeping the server as stable as possible while still being able to make things happen on the map.

It's that extra 4-8 people that really pushes the server from 200 ping to 999.

You are being stubborn and ignorant here. I just explained my view as clearly as possible. Don't you understand the concept of "perfect balance" ?

I understand the addition of 4-8 people means precisely zero. Like, I PvP with 16 or less ALOT. It's not a generally accepted fact because I don't frequently come to the forums to announce my purity, but yeah. And I can say, it does nada. I have been in precisely zero situations where adding or subtracting 4 people would have moved the ping by a single thousandth.

The strongest argument against running a full raid is that 99% of the time I don't need it unless I'm fighting stacked EP raids. Most groups like ours that would challenge us are gone, it's almost entirely the reemergence of EP as the horde faction that's kept my raid numbers from dwindling.

manny254 · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

Mohican! Hi! Nice to connect with you here in the forums. ^_^

You cause us problems! ^_^ If you or your group are hanging around in EP territory we can't LEAVE you be because you'll just keep taking resources and distracting us. And you're tough! If we need a big group to take you down, then we have to do it, so we can move away to take other objectives.

We have accused you of cheating, it's true, but what you do with a small group doesn't seem possible, so I'm sure you can forgive us. When I'm in the raid, I'll keep it under control from now on (I don't play much on my Wed-Fri, your Tue-Thur).

I'd LOVE to see a vid of your group fighting VE or Haxus! Now THAT would be a show of skill! ^_^

Thank you for responding. The complaint is more about being treated disrespectfully. We are very used to getting zerged.

I have not been recording, but glory has some clips. We have fought haxus many times, and we had one good battle with VE. His perspective might not be the most entertaining, but we can get him to uploaded them.

That says it all right there. Best AD group and best DC group have had only one good fight. I agree that being outnumbered 2 to 1 is not an option and impossible to win with the actual meta with skilled players on both sides. But it says much about what kind of competition AD and DC has nowadays. No wonder the Roebeck <=> Ash route is barely contested unless EP actually go there and make it happens. Thanks for your honesty Mojican.

So you want there to be a large AD group? This is an odd complaint coming from you.

Aenlir wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

Mohican! Hi! Nice to connect with you here in the forums. ^_^

You cause us problems! ^_^ If you or your group are hanging around in EP territory we can't LEAVE you be because you'll just keep taking resources and distracting us. And you're tough! If we need a big group to take you down, then we have to do it, so we can move away to take other objectives.

We have accused you of cheating, it's true, but what you do with a small group doesn't seem possible, so I'm sure you can forgive us. When I'm in the raid, I'll keep it under control from now on (I don't play much on my Wed-Fri, your Tue-Thur).

I'd LOVE to see a vid of your group fighting VE or Haxus! Now THAT would be a show of skill! ^_^

Thank you for responding. The complaint is more about being treated disrespectfully. We are very used to getting zerged.

I have not been recording, but glory has some clips. We have fought haxus many times, and we had one good battle with VE. His perspective might not be the most entertaining, but we can get him to uploaded them.

That says it all right there. Best AD group and best DC group have had only one good fight. I agree that being outnumbered 2 to 1 is not an option and impossible to win with the actual meta with skilled players on both sides. But it says much about what kind of competition AD and DC has nowadays. No wonder the Roebeck <=> Ash route is barely contested unless EP actually go there and make it happens. Thanks for your honesty Mojican.

What Mojican meant by one good fight, was that we more or less had them wiped before respawn at their camp one time. We have seen them plenty but we will be overwhelmed if we are at a blue objective, or sometimes they leave us if we are fighting red.

Try taking 5-8 people and fighting a VE raid. Not going to be a good fight. It's more fun seeing how long we can last against stacked EP raids.

^This^

Dyride · May 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

Mohican! Hi! Nice to connect with you here in the forums. ^_^

You cause us problems! ^_^ If you or your group are hanging around in EP territory we can't LEAVE you be because you'll just keep taking resources and distracting us. And you're tough! If we need a big group to take you down, then we have to do it, so we can move away to take other objectives.

We have accused you of cheating, it's true, but what you do with a small group doesn't seem possible, so I'm sure you can forgive us. When I'm in the raid, I'll keep it under control from now on (I don't play much on my Wed-Fri, your Tue-Thur).

I'd LOVE to see a vid of your group fighting VE or Haxus! Now THAT would be a show of skill! ^_^

Thank you for responding. The complaint is more about being treated disrespectfully. We are very used to getting zerged.

I have not been recording, but glory has some clips. We have fought haxus many times, and we had one good battle with VE. His perspective might not be the most entertaining, but we can get him to uploaded them.

That says it all right there. Best AD group and best DC group have had only one good fight. I agree that being outnumbered 2 to 1 is not an option and impossible to win with the actual meta with skilled players on both sides. But it says much about what kind of competition AD and DC has nowadays. No wonder the Roebeck <=> Ash route is barely contested unless EP actually go there and make it happens. Thanks for your honesty Mojican.

More accurately we don't push where there is little resistance. They have a great little group but we don't play on the same scale, it's going to be fun for neither of us to fight each other with a 3/1 number disparity. When AD had Rage and Deci we fought then *all night* which members of both guilds should be willing to verify for me.

What this actually shows is that one of the best AD groups is under 10 people, so it's no wonder Red can Zerg the north all day: they have no fear of a significant AD force pressuring from the south.

Hmmm, does this mean Frozn would rather there be more groups running our size to allow for there to be fights all over the map and stop the alliance v alliance fights at a single keep? Can it really be true?

I still believe a 16men group size is the perfect balance between keeping the server as stable as possible while still being able to make things happen on the map.

I don't necessarily disagree with you but ZOS seems to.

You would think with the "numbers" and diagnostics they have available, if the group size drastically made that much of a difference, they would have changed something already.

There is no other content that requires being balanced around a 24 person group/raid so reducing the group size to 12 or 16 shouldn't make too much of a difference for PVE.

Overall it wouldn't make a difference for lag since some guilds already run 2+ groups.

Darnathian · May 2016

Satiar wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

Mohican! Hi! Nice to connect with you here in the forums. ^_^

You cause us problems! ^_^ If you or your group are hanging around in EP territory we can't LEAVE you be because you'll just keep taking resources and distracting us. And you're tough! If we need a big group to take you down, then we have to do it, so we can move away to take other objectives.

We have accused you of cheating, it's true, but what you do with a small group doesn't seem possible, so I'm sure you can forgive us. When I'm in the raid, I'll keep it under control from now on (I don't play much on my Wed-Fri, your Tue-Thur).

I'd LOVE to see a vid of your group fighting VE or Haxus! Now THAT would be a show of skill! ^_^

Thank you for responding. The complaint is more about being treated disrespectfully. We are very used to getting zerged.

I have not been recording, but glory has some clips. We have fought haxus many times, and we had one good battle with VE. His perspective might not be the most entertaining, but we can get him to uploaded them.

That says it all right there. Best AD group and best DC group have had only one good fight. I agree that being outnumbered 2 to 1 is not an option and impossible to win with the actual meta with skilled players on both sides. But it says much about what kind of competition AD and DC has nowadays. No wonder the Roebeck <=> Ash route is barely contested unless EP actually go there and make it happens. Thanks for your honesty Mojican.

More accurately we don't push where there is little resistance. They have a great little group but we don't play on the same scale, it's going to be fun for neither of us to fight each other with a 3/1 number disparity. When AD had Rage and Deci we fought then *all night* which members of both guilds should be willing to verify for me.

What this actually shows is that one of the best AD groups is under 10 people, so it's no wonder Red can Zerg the north all day: they have no fear of a significant AD force pressuring from the south.

Those were some great fights before the blue meteor showers struck.

Satiar · May 2016

Darnathian wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

Mohican! Hi! Nice to connect with you here in the forums. ^_^

You cause us problems! ^_^ If you or your group are hanging around in EP territory we can't LEAVE you be because you'll just keep taking resources and distracting us. And you're tough! If we need a big group to take you down, then we have to do it, so we can move away to take other objectives.

We have accused you of cheating, it's true, but what you do with a small group doesn't seem possible, so I'm sure you can forgive us. When I'm in the raid, I'll keep it under control from now on (I don't play much on my Wed-Fri, your Tue-Thur).

I'd LOVE to see a vid of your group fighting VE or Haxus! Now THAT would be a show of skill! ^_^

Thank you for responding. The complaint is more about being treated disrespectfully. We are very used to getting zerged.

I have not been recording, but glory has some clips. We have fought haxus many times, and we had one good battle with VE. His perspective might not be the most entertaining, but we can get him to uploaded them.

That says it all right there. Best AD group and best DC group have had only one good fight. I agree that being outnumbered 2 to 1 is not an option and impossible to win with the actual meta with skilled players on both sides. But it says much about what kind of competition AD and DC has nowadays. No wonder the Roebeck <=> Ash route is barely contested unless EP actually go there and make it happens. Thanks for your honesty Mojican.

More accurately we don't push where there is little resistance. They have a great little group but we don't play on the same scale, it's going to be fun for neither of us to fight each other with a 3/1 number disparity. When AD had Rage and Deci we fought then *all night* which members of both guilds should be willing to verify for me.

What this actually shows is that one of the best AD groups is under 10 people, so it's no wonder Red can Zerg the north all day: they have no fear of a significant AD force pressuring from the south.

Those were some great fights before the blue meteor showers struck.

Some great fights after, too.

frozywozy · May 2016

Satiar wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

Mohican! Hi! Nice to connect with you here in the forums. ^_^

You cause us problems! ^_^ If you or your group are hanging around in EP territory we can't LEAVE you be because you'll just keep taking resources and distracting us. And you're tough! If we need a big group to take you down, then we have to do it, so we can move away to take other objectives.

We have accused you of cheating, it's true, but what you do with a small group doesn't seem possible, so I'm sure you can forgive us. When I'm in the raid, I'll keep it under control from now on (I don't play much on my Wed-Fri, your Tue-Thur).

I'd LOVE to see a vid of your group fighting VE or Haxus! Now THAT would be a show of skill! ^_^

Thank you for responding. The complaint is more about being treated disrespectfully. We are very used to getting zerged.

I have not been recording, but glory has some clips. We have fought haxus many times, and we had one good battle with VE. His perspective might not be the most entertaining, but we can get him to uploaded them.

That says it all right there. Best AD group and best DC group have had only one good fight. I agree that being outnumbered 2 to 1 is not an option and impossible to win with the actual meta with skilled players on both sides. But it says much about what kind of competition AD and DC has nowadays. No wonder the Roebeck <=> Ash route is barely contested unless EP actually go there and make it happens. Thanks for your honesty Mojican.

More accurately we don't push where there is little resistance. They have a great little group but we don't play on the same scale, it's going to be fun for neither of us to fight each other with a 3/1 number disparity. When AD had Rage and Deci we fought then *all night* which members of both guilds should be willing to verify for me.

What this actually shows is that one of the best AD groups is under 10 people, so it's no wonder Red can Zerg the north all day: they have no fear of a significant AD force pressuring from the south.

Hmmm, does this mean Frozn would rather there be more groups running our size to allow for there to be fights all over the map and stop the alliance v alliance fights at a single keep? Can it really be true?

I still believe a 16men group size is the perfect balance between keeping the server as stable as possible while still being able to make things happen on the map.

It's that extra 4-8 people that really pushes the server from 200 ping to 999.

You are being stubborn and ignorant here. I just explained my view as clearly as possible. Don't you understand the concept of "perfect balance" ?

I understand the addition of 4-8 people means precisely zero. Like, I PvP with 16 or less ALOT. It's not a generally accepted fact because I don't frequently come to the forums to announce my purity, but yeah. And I can say, it does nada. I have been in precisely zero situations where adding or subtracting 4 people would have moved the ping by a single thousandth.

The strongest argument against running a full raid is that 99% of the time I don't need it unless I'm fighting stacked EP raids. Most groups like ours that would challenge us are gone, it's almost entirely the reemergence of EP as the horde faction that's kept my raid numbers from dwindling.

Nice how you and other VE members always interpret the 16men group as 4members less. Who said I was comparing a 16men group to a 20men group or a 24men group? I never said such a thing. I said that a 16men group is the perfect balance between performance impact and the possibility to actually be able to capture objectives and be helpful on the map. Nothing less, nothing more to understand here.

manny254 wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

Mohican! Hi! Nice to connect with you here in the forums. ^_^

You cause us problems! ^_^ If you or your group are hanging around in EP territory we can't LEAVE you be because you'll just keep taking resources and distracting us. And you're tough! If we need a big group to take you down, then we have to do it, so we can move away to take other objectives.

We have accused you of cheating, it's true, but what you do with a small group doesn't seem possible, so I'm sure you can forgive us. When I'm in the raid, I'll keep it under control from now on (I don't play much on my Wed-Fri, your Tue-Thur).

I'd LOVE to see a vid of your group fighting VE or Haxus! Now THAT would be a show of skill! ^_^

Thank you for responding. The complaint is more about being treated disrespectfully. We are very used to getting zerged.

I have not been recording, but glory has some clips. We have fought haxus many times, and we had one good battle with VE. His perspective might not be the most entertaining, but we can get him to uploaded them.

That says it all right there. Best AD group and best DC group have had only one good fight. I agree that being outnumbered 2 to 1 is not an option and impossible to win with the actual meta with skilled players on both sides. But it says much about what kind of competition AD and DC has nowadays. No wonder the Roebeck <=> Ash route is barely contested unless EP actually go there and make it happens. Thanks for your honesty Mojican.

So you want there to be a large AD group? This is an odd complaint coming from you.

Aenlir wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Icy wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

Mohican! Hi! Nice to connect with you here in the forums. ^_^

You cause us problems! ^_^ If you or your group are hanging around in EP territory we can't LEAVE you be because you'll just keep taking resources and distracting us. And you're tough! If we need a big group to take you down, then we have to do it, so we can move away to take other objectives.

We have accused you of cheating, it's true, but what you do with a small group doesn't seem possible, so I'm sure you can forgive us. When I'm in the raid, I'll keep it under control from now on (I don't play much on my Wed-Fri, your Tue-Thur).

I'd LOVE to see a vid of your group fighting VE or Haxus! Now THAT would be a show of skill! ^_^

Thank you for responding. The complaint is more about being treated disrespectfully. We are very used to getting zerged.

I have not been recording, but glory has some clips. We have fought haxus many times, and we had one good battle with VE. His perspective might not be the most entertaining, but we can get him to uploaded them.

That says it all right there. Best AD group and best DC group have had only one good fight. I agree that being outnumbered 2 to 1 is not an option and impossible to win with the actual meta with skilled players on both sides. But it says much about what kind of competition AD and DC has nowadays. No wonder the Roebeck <=> Ash route is barely contested unless EP actually go there and make it happens. Thanks for your honesty Mojican.

What Mojican meant by one good fight, was that we more or less had them wiped before respawn at their camp one time. We have seen them plenty but we will be overwhelmed if we are at a blue objective, or sometimes they leave us if we are fighting red.

Try taking 5-8 people and fighting a VE raid. Not going to be a good fight. It's more fun seeing how long we can last against stacked EP raids.

^This^

What I've been saying is that I would like fights to happen at different places on the map rather than having one whole laggy fight between Chalman and Aleswell. Nothing more, nothing less.

Crazy how you guys misinterpret me constantly. I can't even.. lol

_Crow · May 2016

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

I will bring as many as it takes to kill you. Me and lot of us are no match for someone who can wipe a full raid by himself. I am not going to let the people I want to beat in the game tell me what to do. And come on, "disrespect"? Have you never played sports with friends before or even video games? Trash talk and mocking is perfectly fine. Its a game. Don't get your feelings hurt so easily. I am not going to tell my group they have to treat their enemies a certain way. This is the only video game where I see people get so upset over how the ENEMY is treating them.

I don't know about anyone else, but I like hardcore competition and trash talking between enemies. I don't really get why we have to treat our enemies like they are my teammates and best friends. I want EP to win, and I want all other enemy alliances and guilds to lose. Isn't that what it should be?

manny254 · May 2016

_Crow wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

I will bring as many as it takes to kill you. Me and lot of us are no match for someone who can wipe a full raid by himself. I am not going to let the people I want to beat in the game tell me what to do. And come on, "disrespect"? Have you never played sports with friends before or even video games? Trash talk and mocking is perfectly fine. Its a game. Don't get your feelings hurt so easily. I am not going to tell my group they have to treat their enemies a certain way. This is the only video game where I see people get so upset over how the ENEMY is treating them.

I don't know about anyone else, but I like hardcore competition and trash talking between enemies. I don't really get why we have to treat our enemies like they are my teammates and best friends. I want EP to win, and I want all other enemy alliances and guilds to lose. Isn't that what it should be?

So 4 V 30 is hardcore competition? Locked pop EP vs 2 bars DC/AD is hardcore competition? You have no concept of competition in this game. Fight any group in this game even numbers, and see how competitive you are.

So calling a group of people cheater is friendly? Stomping and spitting on someone is friendly? I feel bad for your friends man.

I am not asking for you to treat me like your friend. I am asking that you don't treat my friends and I like dirt.

Ghost-Shot · May 2016

_Crow wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

I will bring as many as it takes to kill you. Me and lot of us are no match for someone who can wipe a full raid by himself. I am not going to let the people I want to beat in the game tell me what to do. And come on, "disrespect"? Have you never played sports with friends before or even video games? Trash talk and mocking is perfectly fine. Its a game. Don't get your feelings hurt so easily. I am not going to tell my group they have to treat their enemies a certain way. This is the only video game where I see people get so upset over how the ENEMY is treating them.

I don't know about anyone else, but I like hardcore competition and trash talking between enemies. I don't really get why we have to treat our enemies like they are my teammates and best friends. I want EP to win, and I want all other enemy alliances and guilds to lose. Isn't that what it should be?

Competition is fighting even numbers, not sending a raid plus to kill 3 or 4 people. Competition is also not waiting until 4 am when there is no resistance and crowning an emp and taking every scroll. We are all guilty of zerging people down sometimes, we've done it to Mojican's crew before but it's not something we actively seek out and we don't gloat over killing them like that because its not even remotely impressive to kill someone with those odds. You don't seem to understand the issue here, the problem is after you have killed smaller groups with massive numbers you are proud of it and act like it was impressive. We all know you aren't anywhere near ready to go up against a group like us even numbers but please don't gloat over a 50v20 or even a 24v5 victory, it just makes you look bad.

LilyOra · May 2016

I wasnt going to say something, and Ill probably regret doing so, but Ive been following this thread and its getting me a little down too since I've been the victim of the same behaviour. Pact likes doing this, they do it to friends and foes alike so one should just shrug and move on. I guess in their defense I think they see it in a joking way, and like Crow says its a game.

But I agree that its sometimes really not very nice when its a bunch of pact militia members emoting your corpse like they've achieved something vs a couple of you or even if you're solo (they have done this to me far too often -> some background: I used to be an officer in pact and a friend to many. I left in a very open and friendly way when I started disliking how big the guild and raids were getting, i.e. numbers over quality. I had rolled a different factions alt and soon after demoted in guild, only to have Nik and others zerg me down multiple times and then they do all sorts of emotes on my corpse - might I add I was on a much lower lvl toon at the time. And this was after I moved away from Pact Militias home campaign)

But yah Nik, Icy, Crow: you guys are super kumbaya and diplomatic about everything in-game and on the forums and you know, peace, love etc. But then how about you show respect to people like Mojican etc who are really good and skillfully play the game and who you're going up against with more numbers. Or I dunno, maybe someone who you consider a friend and helped grow your guild from scratch. Its really funny the first time, but then it kinda gets old and bully-ish

Run your 4.5 raids by all means, but try not target the smaller groups/solo players and if you do dont be such children when you win because numbers, thats my 2 cents

Ok bai, have a good time LOL

Edited because block of text XD

NACtron · May 2016

LilyOra wrote: »

I wasnt going to say something, and Ill probably regret doing so, but Ive been following this thread and its getting me a little down too since I've been the victim of the same behaviour. Pact likes doing this, they do it to friends and foes alike so one should just shrug and move on. I guess in their defense I think they see it in a joking way, and like Crow says its a game.

But I agree that its sometimes really not very nice when its a bunch of pact militia members emoting your corpse like they've achieved something vs a couple of you or even if you're solo (they have done this to me far too often -> some background: I used to be an officer in pact and a friend to many. I left in a very open and friendly way when I started disliking how big the guild and raids were getting, i.e. numbers over quality. I had rolled a different factions alt and soon after demoted in guild, only to have Nik and others zerg me down multiple times and then they do all sorts of emotes on my corpse - might I add I was on a much lower lvl toon at the time. And this was after I moved away from Pact Militias home campaign)

But yah Nik, Icy, Crow: you guys are super kumbaya and diplomatic about everything in-game and on the forums and you know, peace, love etc. But then how about you show respect to people like Mojican etc who are really good and skillfully play the game and who you're going up against with more numbers. Or I dunno, maybe someone who you consider a friend and helped grow your guild from scratch. Its really funny the first time, but then it kinda gets old and bully-ish Run your 4.5 raids by all means, but try not target the smaller groups/solo players and if you do dont be such children when you win because numbers, thats my 2 cents Ok bai, have a good time LOL

Edited because block of text XD

I was not going to comment either but this deserves a response. This forum post has been fairly civil so far and appreciate that. However this is does seem to be turning into some sort of court trial of our guild for some reason or another. Anyway here goes. (Sorry for the text wall)

You have made 3 points I want to address.

1. Emoting the corpse's of dead players is considered a rude gesture and does not show respect to players that deserve it

As you said you think we see this in a joking way, this is true. Dancing on the corpses of friends in Player vs player games is a time honored tradition in almost all PvP games. ESO provides us with dozens of hilarious emotes to do to use. I'm not sure why this is so offensive. There is of course those that use these to mock or tease but welcome to PvP. This happens all the time us and is all in good sport. I always get a good laugh when a whole raid uses a funny emote on us. I don't know why this such a big deal to both you and @manny254 I understand that it can be annoying but it's part of what makes PvP fun. Rivalries and such are things that are enjoyable to me and a lot of others. You are welcome to wipe my group and do /sweep on body as much as you like and won't come on the forums to complain about how disrespectful that is.

2. Large raids should not target small groups.

This is 100% false. Especially post thieves guild with how OP VD night-blade bombers can be on a raid... Mohican and his crew used to be on the same campaign as us when our guild first started up in September and their raid was the plague to us! With only half the raid in TS at the time and most didn't even know how to PvP these Experts of PvP were excellent at riping our raid apart in a matter of seconds. They were also a pain in traveling from point A to point B. Picking off enough players so that we didn't have a decent force when we got to point B. On top of that it didnt help how often they tower farmed EP and I would constantly get requests to clear them out. This developed a policy I will stick to of zerging down any decent solo player or small man group as much as is feasibly possible. Every time I saw Mohicans group I knew I would need to kill them if I wanted to get my full raid to a location. It was often worth the time and effort to zerg them down. Since these guys are often notoriously good at reseing themselves it is also worth it to camp their bodies until they release. We would use emotes on them to pass the time or encourage them to release. The amount of time small raids try to gank players in our raids makes it worth it to take the time when needed to clear out small groups. It really pays off. Look at how you and other small groups and solo players quit targeting our raids and stayed away from them because of this policy. It has been a benefit to our raids for sure. Our guild has gotten a lot better in the last while and is good about staying together so these groups are less of a problem now a days so we don't chase them as far, and we target them less. There is still the occasional or bomber or small group we know of that can harass us during a fight so we like to clear out those types when are where we can before we fight the raids our size. Stay out of our way with your small and go fight for brindle church or something and we won't have a problem. I don't ever actively seek out small man groups to zerg down and its up to you whether or not you want to look for a large group to bomb or gank. If you do try bomb or gank be ready to face the consequences. I don't like leaving men behind and I will happily zerg anyone down in the area that is a nuisance to our raid(s)

To be clear we do respect @manny254 and you. That is why we go out of our way to clear you guys out before we hit an objective. I have no personal problem with either of you and appreciate @manny254 respect to us on the forums and in the game. No matter how hard I have zerged the guy down I have never gotten one hate tell from him or his crew. That is incredible. Hats off to you guys, it takes a good deal of restraint and decency.

3. Pact Militia uses their numbers to win situations and acts like this is an accomplishment.

Pact Militia is the new bad Zerg guild I guess xD. Ah well it is what is. Like I said I will use numbers to zerg down small groups. It actually makes things goes quicker then sending a group of 2-5 to chase after small groups. You clean up the situation quickly and move on to have fun in large scale PvP against groups our size. It is an accomplishment if you can chase down face players and clear them out before the real fighting starts. In terms of Guild V Guild we use numbers to make up for our lack of experience of competitive PvP with Elite guilds but we have started using a lot less numbers lately as we have improved a ton in just the last month. If I don't need 48 people to take an objective it's a waste of assets that would be better spent somewhere else. We don't want to use all the time numbers but I challenge you to get a raid up and try to take a keep from Saramis VE or both defending a keep without some numerical advantage. Such is the state of the game now. Taking an objectives is a slog and requires strong numbers and skill to hold and push forward. Does not help that we are the only guild in EP running a full 24 man at primetime.

Fun Fact: Zergs hate lag too. Try living in lag 24/7 in game. It sucks. But we will tolerate lag for the sake of victory. As will most large guilds in the game. Give us a reason/opportunity to split numbers that actually makes sense and we will do it. We already try as often as possible.

IF YOU HAVE READ TO THE END OF THIS YOU DESERVE A COOKIE! Sorry for the text wall again x)

NACtron · May 2016

manny254 wrote: »

_Crow wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

I will bring as many as it takes to kill you. Me and lot of us are no match for someone who can wipe a full raid by himself. I am not going to let the people I want to beat in the game tell me what to do. And come on, "disrespect"? Have you never played sports with friends before or even video games? Trash talk and mocking is perfectly fine. Its a game. Don't get your feelings hurt so easily. I am not going to tell my group they have to treat their enemies a certain way. This is the only video game where I see people get so upset over how the ENEMY is treating them.

I don't know about anyone else, but I like hardcore competition and trash talking between enemies. I don't really get why we have to treat our enemies like they are my teammates and best friends. I want EP to win, and I want all other enemy alliances and guilds to lose. Isn't that what it should be?

So 4 V 30 is hardcore competition? Locked pop EP vs 2 bars DC/AD is hardcore competition? You have no concept of competition in this game. Fight any group in this game even numbers, and see how competitive you are.

So calling a group of people cheater is friendly? Stomping and spitting on someone is friendly? I feel bad for your friends man.

I am not asking for you to treat me like your friend. I am asking that you don't treat my friends and I like dirt.

I don't think he is referring to "hardcore competition" in the sense of an equal fight between but in the sense of rivalries between two groups that create things like trash talk and using emotes. For many this is a fun part of PvP.

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

_Crow wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

I will bring as many as it takes to kill you. Me and lot of us are no match for someone who can wipe a full raid by himself. I am not going to let the people I want to beat in the game tell me what to do. And come on, "disrespect"? Have you never played sports with friends before or even video games? Trash talk and mocking is perfectly fine. Its a game. Don't get your feelings hurt so easily. I am not going to tell my group they have to treat their enemies a certain way. This is the only video game where I see people get so upset over how the ENEMY is treating them.

I don't know about anyone else, but I like hardcore competition and trash talking between enemies. I don't really get why we have to treat our enemies like they are my teammates and best friends. I want EP to win, and I want all other enemy alliances and guilds to lose. Isn't that what it should be?

Competition is fighting even numbers, not sending a raid plus to kill 3 or 4 people. Competition is also not waiting until 4 am when there is no resistance and crowning an emp and taking every scroll. We are all guilty of zerging people down sometimes, we've done it to Mojican's crew before but it's not something we actively seek out and we don't gloat over killing them like that because its not even remotely impressive to kill someone with those odds. You don't seem to understand the issue here, the problem is after you have killed smaller groups with massive numbers you are proud of it and act like it was impressive. We all know you aren't anywhere near ready to go up against a group like us even numbers but please don't gloat over a 50v20 or even a 24v5 victory, it just makes you look bad.

You seem to be really frustrated by the day capping that goes in Trueflame. I understand. A couple months ago EP was in the same boat. It stinks. However it is part of the competition. A 30 day campaign is a 30 Day campaign. 24/7. My guild cannot help the fact that other EP guild want to run full raids and Paint the map red. I think it is part of competing for victory in the campaign. If your faction can only control the map for 3 hours of the day and EP has the other 21 then your faction is weaker. That is the truth. Your faction needs to find a way to deal with the day capping problem like we did. EP has a couple guilds organizing players during that time of the day and if you cant compete with that then that is no one's fault but your own. I know there is nothing you can do about it unless DC primetime players want to quit their day jobs but there is some DC out there that could do something about it. Don't blame EP for the fact that no DC are stepping up during the day. It took EP a very long time to get to this level of organization

Don't get me wrong you guys out play us in primetime more often then not and that is on Pact Militia but the this is a 24/7 campaign for 30 days if you wanna compete for victory still then you gotta get DC to deal with the daytime. I am proud of the EP guilds that have stepped up to keep the faction as a whole competitive. I wish EP and my guild was better at primetime and we are working on it as quick as we can.

As for the rest of your post I have been very transparent about the numbers we use and I think we have done a good job about not tooting our own horn about how amazing we are or bragging about our victories. Yet are we not allowed to be proud of our achievements and accomplishments as a guild? Even if they seem lousy to you from your high perch they are still something to us.

zyk · May 2016

Zheg wrote: »

More accurately we don't push where there is little resistance. They have a great little group but we don't play on the same scale, it's going to be fun for neither of us to fight each other with a 3/1 number disparity. When AD had Rage and Deci we fought then *all night* which members of both guilds should be willing to verify for me.

I may not have been in Rage long enough to make this statement, but IMO Rage and VE might be the last decent rivalry NA has seen. It was heated. And fun.

Ghost-Shot · May 2016

NACtron wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

_Crow wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

I will bring as many as it takes to kill you. Me and lot of us are no match for someone who can wipe a full raid by himself. I am not going to let the people I want to beat in the game tell me what to do. And come on, "disrespect"? Have you never played sports with friends before or even video games? Trash talk and mocking is perfectly fine. Its a game. Don't get your feelings hurt so easily. I am not going to tell my group they have to treat their enemies a certain way. This is the only video game where I see people get so upset over how the ENEMY is treating them.

I don't know about anyone else, but I like hardcore competition and trash talking between enemies. I don't really get why we have to treat our enemies like they are my teammates and best friends. I want EP to win, and I want all other enemy alliances and guilds to lose. Isn't that what it should be?

So 4 V 30 is hardcore competition? Locked pop EP vs 2 bars DC/AD is hardcore competition? You have no concept of competition in this game. Fight any group in this game even numbers, and see how competitive you are.

So calling a group of people cheater is friendly? Stomping and spitting on someone is friendly? I feel bad for your friends man.

I am not asking for you to treat me like your friend. I am asking that you don't treat my friends and I like dirt.

I don't think he is referring to "hardcore competition" in the sense of an equal fight between but in the sense of rivalries between two groups that create things like trash talk and using emotes. For many this is a fun part of PvP.

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

_Crow wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

I will bring as many as it takes to kill you. Me and lot of us are no match for someone who can wipe a full raid by himself. I am not going to let the people I want to beat in the game tell me what to do. And come on, "disrespect"? Have you never played sports with friends before or even video games? Trash talk and mocking is perfectly fine. Its a game. Don't get your feelings hurt so easily. I am not going to tell my group they have to treat their enemies a certain way. This is the only video game where I see people get so upset over how the ENEMY is treating them.

I don't know about anyone else, but I like hardcore competition and trash talking between enemies. I don't really get why we have to treat our enemies like they are my teammates and best friends. I want EP to win, and I want all other enemy alliances and guilds to lose. Isn't that what it should be?

Competition is fighting even numbers, not sending a raid plus to kill 3 or 4 people. Competition is also not waiting until 4 am when there is no resistance and crowning an emp and taking every scroll. We are all guilty of zerging people down sometimes, we've done it to Mojican's crew before but it's not something we actively seek out and we don't gloat over killing them like that because its not even remotely impressive to kill someone with those odds. You don't seem to understand the issue here, the problem is after you have killed smaller groups with massive numbers you are proud of it and act like it was impressive. We all know you aren't anywhere near ready to go up against a group like us even numbers but please don't gloat over a 50v20 or even a 24v5 victory, it just makes you look bad.

You seem to be really frustrated by the day capping that goes in Trueflame. I understand. A couple months ago EP was in the same boat. It stinks. However it is part of the competition. A 30 day campaign is a 30 Day campaign. 24/7. My guild cannot help the fact that other EP guild want to run full raids and Paint the map red. I think it is part of competing for victory in the campaign. If your faction can only control the map for 3 hours of the day and EP has the other 21 then your faction is weaker. That is the truth. Your faction needs to find a way to deal with the day capping problem like we did. EP has a couple guilds organizing players during that time of the day and if you cant compete with that then that is no one's fault but your own. I know there is nothing you can do about it unless DC primetime players want to quit their day jobs but there is some DC out there that could do something about it. Don't blame EP for the fact that no DC are stepping up during the day. It took EP a very long time to get to this level of organization

Don't get me wrong you guys out play us in primetime more often then not and that is on Pact Militia but the this is a 24/7 campaign for 30 days if you wanna compete for victory still then you gotta get DC to deal with the daytime. I am proud of the EP guilds that have stepped up to keep the faction as a whole competitive. I wish EP and my guild was better at primetime and we are working on it as quick as we can.

As for the rest of your post I have been very transparent about the numbers we use and I think we have done a good job about not tooting our own horn about how amazing we are or bragging about our victories. Yet are we not allowed to be proud of our achievements and accomplishments as a guild? Even if they seem lousy to you from your high perch they are still something to us.

There is no way to twist PvDooring a map into something to be proud of, I agree that it's a 24/7 thing but you should not be capping everything in the early morning hours against no resistance. If there is no competition on a server go to another until it picks up so that Trueflame remains competitive.

I would honestly have no problem at all with you guys zerging and using the numbers you have, moral victories are not real victories after all, if you didn't post videos with members of your guild bragging about how easy that was or how you rekt the people you outnumbered 3 or 4 to 1. Its not a personal attack against you or your guild its just a fact that you, or at least some of your guild members, do go around bragging about it and no, that is not an accomplishment to be proud of.

Ghost-Shot · May 2016

zyk wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

More accurately we don't push where there is little resistance. They have a great little group but we don't play on the same scale, it's going to be fun for neither of us to fight each other with a 3/1 number disparity. When AD had Rage and Deci we fought then *all night* which members of both guilds should be willing to verify for me.

I may not have been in Rage long enough to make this statement, but IMO Rage and VE might be the last decent rivalry NA has seen. It was heated. And fun.

We had some amazing fights against rage, we were really hoping their presence in ESO would survive BDO.

_Crow · May 2016

manny254 wrote: »

_Crow wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

I will bring as many as it takes to kill you. Me and lot of us are no match for someone who can wipe a full raid by himself. I am not going to let the people I want to beat in the game tell me what to do. And come on, "disrespect"? Have you never played sports with friends before or even video games? Trash talk and mocking is perfectly fine. Its a game. Don't get your feelings hurt so easily. I am not going to tell my group they have to treat their enemies a certain way. This is the only video game where I see people get so upset over how the ENEMY is treating them.

I don't know about anyone else, but I like hardcore competition and trash talking between enemies. I don't really get why we have to treat our enemies like they are my teammates and best friends. I want EP to win, and I want all other enemy alliances and guilds to lose. Isn't that what it should be?

So 4 V 30 is hardcore competition? Locked pop EP vs 2 bars DC/AD is hardcore competition? You have no concept of competition in this game. Fight any group in this game even numbers, and see how competitive you are.

So calling a group of people cheater is friendly? Stomping and spitting on someone is friendly? I feel bad for your friends man.

I am not asking for you to treat me like your friend. I am asking that you don't treat my friends and I like dirt.

What would you like me to do then? When our raid sees you guys I should go, "wait wait wait! Ok, you 4 out of the raid go fight them and the rest of 20 will stand here and watch so it can be a fair fight. Good luck!".

No. I am going to play this game the way I like it. I am not going to play the game how you play it. Ever. I have had people t-bag us and /sweep us after a wipe and I never once thought, "Man, they have gone too far! How dare they use their fake, not real, video game character, to disrespect my fake, not real video game character! I should tell them to stop it cause it's mean".

Again, it's a VIDEO GAME. I am going to do whatever I want in it because I want to have fun while playing it. Period. I think some people are putting WAY too much emotion and taking things way too personally in this game. It's a little worrying to be honest.

Just play the game how you want to! You don't see Pact Militia telling people how they should play the game do you? We don't complain, we just play. And don't say it's because we run 50+ people and 4 raids. in the past 2 months the most we have run is 2, and that happens very rarely. Just play the game how you want to and let us play the way we want to. I am never going to change my style of play, ever. If I did, I wouldn't be having fun. I would I never even dream about telling you how to run your raid! That would be absolutely insane!

If you are not having fun fighting my raid, then don't come near us. Simple as that. Why should I change so that you don't get mad. If you were a teammate then this would be a whole different story. But you are my enemy. I want you to lose. Don't you want us to lose????

I don't hate you if that's what you are thinking. Don't take things so personally, it's just a game.

NACtron · May 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

NACtron wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

_Crow wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

I will bring as many as it takes to kill you. Me and lot of us are no match for someone who can wipe a full raid by himself. I am not going to let the people I want to beat in the game tell me what to do. And come on, "disrespect"? Have you never played sports with friends before or even video games? Trash talk and mocking is perfectly fine. Its a game. Don't get your feelings hurt so easily. I am not going to tell my group they have to treat their enemies a certain way. This is the only video game where I see people get so upset over how the ENEMY is treating them.

I don't know about anyone else, but I like hardcore competition and trash talking between enemies. I don't really get why we have to treat our enemies like they are my teammates and best friends. I want EP to win, and I want all other enemy alliances and guilds to lose. Isn't that what it should be?

So 4 V 30 is hardcore competition? Locked pop EP vs 2 bars DC/AD is hardcore competition? You have no concept of competition in this game. Fight any group in this game even numbers, and see how competitive you are.

So calling a group of people cheater is friendly? Stomping and spitting on someone is friendly? I feel bad for your friends man.

I am not asking for you to treat me like your friend. I am asking that you don't treat my friends and I like dirt.

I don't think he is referring to "hardcore competition" in the sense of an equal fight between but in the sense of rivalries between two groups that create things like trash talk and using emotes. For many this is a fun part of PvP.

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

_Crow wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

I will bring as many as it takes to kill you. Me and lot of us are no match for someone who can wipe a full raid by himself. I am not going to let the people I want to beat in the game tell me what to do. And come on, "disrespect"? Have you never played sports with friends before or even video games? Trash talk and mocking is perfectly fine. Its a game. Don't get your feelings hurt so easily. I am not going to tell my group they have to treat their enemies a certain way. This is the only video game where I see people get so upset over how the ENEMY is treating them.

I don't know about anyone else, but I like hardcore competition and trash talking between enemies. I don't really get why we have to treat our enemies like they are my teammates and best friends. I want EP to win, and I want all other enemy alliances and guilds to lose. Isn't that what it should be?

Competition is fighting even numbers, not sending a raid plus to kill 3 or 4 people. Competition is also not waiting until 4 am when there is no resistance and crowning an emp and taking every scroll. We are all guilty of zerging people down sometimes, we've done it to Mojican's crew before but it's not something we actively seek out and we don't gloat over killing them like that because its not even remotely impressive to kill someone with those odds. You don't seem to understand the issue here, the problem is after you have killed smaller groups with massive numbers you are proud of it and act like it was impressive. We all know you aren't anywhere near ready to go up against a group like us even numbers but please don't gloat over a 50v20 or even a 24v5 victory, it just makes you look bad.

You seem to be really frustrated by the day capping that goes in Trueflame. I understand. A couple months ago EP was in the same boat. It stinks. However it is part of the competition. A 30 day campaign is a 30 Day campaign. 24/7. My guild cannot help the fact that other EP guild want to run full raids and Paint the map red. I think it is part of competing for victory in the campaign. If your faction can only control the map for 3 hours of the day and EP has the other 21 then your faction is weaker. That is the truth. Your faction needs to find a way to deal with the day capping problem like we did. EP has a couple guilds organizing players during that time of the day and if you cant compete with that then that is no one's fault but your own. I know there is nothing you can do about it unless DC primetime players want to quit their day jobs but there is some DC out there that could do something about it. Don't blame EP for the fact that no DC are stepping up during the day. It took EP a very long time to get to this level of organization

Don't get me wrong you guys out play us in primetime more often then not and that is on Pact Militia but the this is a 24/7 campaign for 30 days if you wanna compete for victory still then you gotta get DC to deal with the daytime. I am proud of the EP guilds that have stepped up to keep the faction as a whole competitive. I wish EP and my guild was better at primetime and we are working on it as quick as we can.

As for the rest of your post I have been very transparent about the numbers we use and I think we have done a good job about not tooting our own horn about how amazing we are or bragging about our victories. Yet are we not allowed to be proud of our achievements and accomplishments as a guild? Even if they seem lousy to you from your high perch they are still something to us.

There is no way to twist PvDooring a map into something to be proud of, I agree that it's a 24/7 thing but you should not be capping everything in the early morning hours against no resistance. If there is no competition on a server go to another until it picks up so that Trueflame remains competitive.

I would honestly have no problem at all with you guys zerging and using the numbers you have, moral victories are not real victories after all, if you didn't post videos with members of your guild bragging about how easy that was or how you rekt the people you outnumbered 3 or 4 to 1. Its not a personal attack against you or your guild its just a fact that you, or at least some of your guild members, do go around bragging about it and no, that is not an accomplishment to be proud of.

An opposing group is dead on the ground. My raid remains. Is that not a victory? My faction wins the camapign, moral or not it is still victory. Sure you can make a fine argument that we used to many numbers and we should all shut up and keep our video's and accomplishments to ourselves but that is within the realm of your morals and standards, not ours.

_Crow · May 2016

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

_Crow wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

I will bring as many as it takes to kill you. Me and lot of us are no match for someone who can wipe a full raid by himself. I am not going to let the people I want to beat in the game tell me what to do. And come on, "disrespect"? Have you never played sports with friends before or even video games? Trash talk and mocking is perfectly fine. Its a game. Don't get your feelings hurt so easily. I am not going to tell my group they have to treat their enemies a certain way. This is the only video game where I see people get so upset over how the ENEMY is treating them.

I don't know about anyone else, but I like hardcore competition and trash talking between enemies. I don't really get why we have to treat our enemies like they are my teammates and best friends. I want EP to win, and I want all other enemy alliances and guilds to lose. Isn't that what it should be?

Competition is fighting even numbers, not sending a raid plus to kill 3 or 4 people. Competition is also not waiting until 4 am when there is no resistance and crowning an emp and taking every scroll. We are all guilty of zerging people down sometimes, we've done it to Mojican's crew before but it's not something we actively seek out and we don't gloat over killing them like that because its not even remotely impressive to kill someone with those odds. You don't seem to understand the issue here, the problem is after you have killed smaller groups with massive numbers you are proud of it and act like it was impressive. We all know you aren't anywhere near ready to go up against a group like us even numbers but please don't gloat over a 50v20 or even a 24v5 victory, it just makes you look bad.

So now on top off telling us how we should play the game, you have now gone to,
1.telling us how to treat the ENEMY.
2. telling us what times during the day we are allowed to take keeps.
3. telling us what we are allowed to get happy and proud about in the game.
4. telling us how we should fight you guys.
5. Finally, telling what we should and should not have fun doing.

A famous man once said, "Hell is a place where there is no reason". You are trying to drag us into your hell.

Ghost-Shot · May 2016

NACtron wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

NACtron wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

_Crow wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

I will bring as many as it takes to kill you. Me and lot of us are no match for someone who can wipe a full raid by himself. I am not going to let the people I want to beat in the game tell me what to do. And come on, "disrespect"? Have you never played sports with friends before or even video games? Trash talk and mocking is perfectly fine. Its a game. Don't get your feelings hurt so easily. I am not going to tell my group they have to treat their enemies a certain way. This is the only video game where I see people get so upset over how the ENEMY is treating them.

I don't know about anyone else, but I like hardcore competition and trash talking between enemies. I don't really get why we have to treat our enemies like they are my teammates and best friends. I want EP to win, and I want all other enemy alliances and guilds to lose. Isn't that what it should be?

So 4 V 30 is hardcore competition? Locked pop EP vs 2 bars DC/AD is hardcore competition? You have no concept of competition in this game. Fight any group in this game even numbers, and see how competitive you are.

So calling a group of people cheater is friendly? Stomping and spitting on someone is friendly? I feel bad for your friends man.

I am not asking for you to treat me like your friend. I am asking that you don't treat my friends and I like dirt.

I don't think he is referring to "hardcore competition" in the sense of an equal fight between but in the sense of rivalries between two groups that create things like trash talk and using emotes. For many this is a fun part of PvP.

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

_Crow wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

I will bring as many as it takes to kill you. Me and lot of us are no match for someone who can wipe a full raid by himself. I am not going to let the people I want to beat in the game tell me what to do. And come on, "disrespect"? Have you never played sports with friends before or even video games? Trash talk and mocking is perfectly fine. Its a game. Don't get your feelings hurt so easily. I am not going to tell my group they have to treat their enemies a certain way. This is the only video game where I see people get so upset over how the ENEMY is treating them.

I don't know about anyone else, but I like hardcore competition and trash talking between enemies. I don't really get why we have to treat our enemies like they are my teammates and best friends. I want EP to win, and I want all other enemy alliances and guilds to lose. Isn't that what it should be?

Competition is fighting even numbers, not sending a raid plus to kill 3 or 4 people. Competition is also not waiting until 4 am when there is no resistance and crowning an emp and taking every scroll. We are all guilty of zerging people down sometimes, we've done it to Mojican's crew before but it's not something we actively seek out and we don't gloat over killing them like that because its not even remotely impressive to kill someone with those odds. You don't seem to understand the issue here, the problem is after you have killed smaller groups with massive numbers you are proud of it and act like it was impressive. We all know you aren't anywhere near ready to go up against a group like us even numbers but please don't gloat over a 50v20 or even a 24v5 victory, it just makes you look bad.

You seem to be really frustrated by the day capping that goes in Trueflame. I understand. A couple months ago EP was in the same boat. It stinks. However it is part of the competition. A 30 day campaign is a 30 Day campaign. 24/7. My guild cannot help the fact that other EP guild want to run full raids and Paint the map red. I think it is part of competing for victory in the campaign. If your faction can only control the map for 3 hours of the day and EP has the other 21 then your faction is weaker. That is the truth. Your faction needs to find a way to deal with the day capping problem like we did. EP has a couple guilds organizing players during that time of the day and if you cant compete with that then that is no one's fault but your own. I know there is nothing you can do about it unless DC primetime players want to quit their day jobs but there is some DC out there that could do something about it. Don't blame EP for the fact that no DC are stepping up during the day. It took EP a very long time to get to this level of organization

Don't get me wrong you guys out play us in primetime more often then not and that is on Pact Militia but the this is a 24/7 campaign for 30 days if you wanna compete for victory still then you gotta get DC to deal with the daytime. I am proud of the EP guilds that have stepped up to keep the faction as a whole competitive. I wish EP and my guild was better at primetime and we are working on it as quick as we can.

As for the rest of your post I have been very transparent about the numbers we use and I think we have done a good job about not tooting our own horn about how amazing we are or bragging about our victories. Yet are we not allowed to be proud of our achievements and accomplishments as a guild? Even if they seem lousy to you from your high perch they are still something to us.

There is no way to twist PvDooring a map into something to be proud of, I agree that it's a 24/7 thing but you should not be capping everything in the early morning hours against no resistance. If there is no competition on a server go to another until it picks up so that Trueflame remains competitive.

I would honestly have no problem at all with you guys zerging and using the numbers you have, moral victories are not real victories after all, if you didn't post videos with members of your guild bragging about how easy that was or how you rekt the people you outnumbered 3 or 4 to 1. Its not a personal attack against you or your guild its just a fact that you, or at least some of your guild members, do go around bragging about it and no, that is not an accomplishment to be proud of.

An opposing group is dead on the ground. My raid remains. Is that not a victory? Sure you can make a fine argument that we used to many numbers and we should all shut up and keep our video's and accomplishments to ourselves but that is within the realm of your morals and standards, not ours.

I never said it's not a victory, a win is a win as far as I'm concerned, Bulb gets just as pissed when we wipe to 3 of your raids as he does wiping to one Haxus raid. The point is that you can't post a video like that and not expect people to call you out on it, especially when we haven't come in here posting all of our videos of farming you for hours on end. Like I said I don't intend for this to be personal attacks Nikolai, I actually like you and I think you did good things for EP in the wake of losing most of its competitive guilds (rip Havoc) but honestly you need to think about what your doing for a minute. Its not fun for anyone else involved.

Zheg · May 2016

_Crow wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

_Crow wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

I will bring as many as it takes to kill you. Me and lot of us are no match for someone who can wipe a full raid by himself. I am not going to let the people I want to beat in the game tell me what to do. And come on, "disrespect"? Have you never played sports with friends before or even video games? Trash talk and mocking is perfectly fine. Its a game. Don't get your feelings hurt so easily. I am not going to tell my group they have to treat their enemies a certain way. This is the only video game where I see people get so upset over how the ENEMY is treating them.

I don't know about anyone else, but I like hardcore competition and trash talking between enemies. I don't really get why we have to treat our enemies like they are my teammates and best friends. I want EP to win, and I want all other enemy alliances and guilds to lose. Isn't that what it should be?

So 4 V 30 is hardcore competition? Locked pop EP vs 2 bars DC/AD is hardcore competition? You have no concept of competition in this game. Fight any group in this game even numbers, and see how competitive you are.

So calling a group of people cheater is friendly? Stomping and spitting on someone is friendly? I feel bad for your friends man.

I am not asking for you to treat me like your friend. I am asking that you don't treat my friends and I like dirt.

What would you like me to do then? When our raid sees you guys I should go, "wait wait wait! Ok, you 4 out of the raid go fight them and the rest of 20 will stand here and watch so it can be a fair fight. Good luck!".

No. I am going to play this game the way I like it. I am not going to play the game how you play it. Ever. I have had people t-bag us and /sweep us after a wipe and I never once thought, "Man, they have gone too far! How dare they use their fake, not real, video game character, to disrespect my fake, not real video game character! I should tell them to stop it cause it's mean".

Again, it's a VIDEO GAME. I am going to do whatever I want in it because I want to have fun while playing it. Period. I think some people are putting WAY too much emotion and taking things way too personally in this game. It's a little worrying to be honest.

Just play the game how you want to! You don't see Pact Militia telling people how they should play the game do you? We don't complain, we just play. And don't say it's because we run 50+ people and 4 raids. in the past 2 months the most we have run is 2, and that happens very rarely. Just play the game how you want to and let us play the way we want to. I am never going to change my style of play, ever. If I did, I wouldn't be having fun. I would I never even dream about telling you how to run your raid! That would be absolutely insane!

If you are not having fun fighting my raid, then don't come near us. Simple as that. Why should I change so that you don't get mad. If you were a teammate then this would be a whole different story. But you are my enemy. I want you to lose. Don't you want us to lose????

I don't hate you if that's what you are thinking. Don't take things so personally, it's just a game.

If someone pees in your pool because leaving for a bathroom break would be less fun for them, do you think that's a valid excuse? You're peeing in the pool when you run as large as you do, and you're leaving floaters when you use those numbers to zerg down significantly smaller forces. You may be playing the game how you want, but there is some degree of shared responsibility. If you don't want to accept your share of that shared responsibility, that's fine, but then you need to own it.

If I see a 4 man yellow squad on a resource, unless they're making poor life decisions and coming after our raid, they get ignored. Perhaps watched out of the corner of your eye in case they try to bomb while we're engaged with another force, but their threat level is low. The fact that you can't understand that is the problem people have been trying to explain to you. You don't need to send 4 out to clean them up, and you don't need to send 40.

LilyOra · May 2016

I read it all, gold star please

Aw Nik, Pact Militia has come a long way, I learnt so much in that guild - never had pvpd before in my life, and maybe you've gotten it a bit harsh in this thread so from my side Im sorry I didnt mean to make you feel like you're in court

But just ask the guildies to be respectful towards the other players. I actually got mail shortly after my comment from one of your oldest guildies telling me how they are glad I said something, and I know other guildies that also feel this way that have opened up to me (they approached me, might I add). So just think about it. Trash talk etc is one thing but blatantly calling out people for cheating when you really have no proof and time after time being kinda bullyish by targetting smaller groups with your more numbers and then being egotistical about it by emoting after you kill them is not a good way to retain good 'sportsmanship' (for the lack of a better word). Sure, you can do whatever you like in your game but what do you want the reputation of your guild to be about. Respect comes when respect is given and I know the smaller guilds and groups are just looking for you to be a little more conscious of a healthy pvp environment.

And I know for a fact its not just AD & DC that feel this way, you (or it might have been Crow) have told me that EP get really annoyed with you in zone chat, I dont know if this is still the case. I mean there's nothing I personally hate more when Im fighting someone 1v1 or even in a small group vs another small group and a raid of my own faction shows up and just erases the competition in a second. How boring. I often just stop attacking and walk away. It kills the game for many of us. I often see smaller EP groups having to go all the way to Nikel to cap it and defend it to get away from the rest of the EP hordes in order for them to get some action.

And Crow: omg I thought you of all people would feel differently about this subject given your love of gaming! Yes its 'just a game' to you, but to many people its way more than that. I am so sick of people immediately making other peoples opinions about game null and void by saying 'its just a game' etc. Im sorry, you know I love you guys but damn. Gaming is my life! I game most of my time off work etc. Id rather hang out in a game with friends than hang out irl. Yeah so what if people think that is sad, its my life and I love it this way. I met my soulmate gaming. Gaming saved me in many ways. Much like people who have other passions like sports or architecture or I dont know gosh anything, who are you to remove the meaning from it by making everyone act and feel like you do about gaming. How about I dont tell you how many people you're allowed in your raid and you dont tell me how passionate Im supposed to be about my hobby

'Just a game.' Can erryone stahp saying that pls! Sheesh LOL Im so triggered rn :P But seriously, does your horse still kick npc's? o_O

allen-iverson · May 2016

_Crow wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

_Crow wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

@NACtron @Icy I would like to point out how members of your guild actually behave.

Late last night your raid decided to chase our group of 4 with 30+. I am used to this, but afterwards Crow stopped the raid to show us disrespect. They all emoted on my body for about 7 mins. This is not how you should allow your group to represent itself. We constantly fight outnumbered, but we do not show disrespect to you.

On a similar note. We have had members of your groups accuse of cheating various times. We do not cheat. We do not exploit. Please keep them under control. It is not fun to be constantly slandered, and treated poorly.

I do think the core idea of your guild is great (Helping people, and giving them a place to start.), but I fear you will not actually foster long term growth. Your players will never improve if more numbers is always the answer, and there is only so much they can grow in that environment.

I will bring as many as it takes to kill you. Me and lot of us are no match for someone who can wipe a full raid by himself. I am not going to let the people I want to beat in the game tell me what to do. And come on, "disrespect"? Have you never played sports with friends before or even video games? Trash talk and mocking is perfectly fine. Its a game. Don't get your feelings hurt so easily. I am not going to tell my group they have to treat their enemies a certain way. This is the only video game where I see people get so upset over how the ENEMY is treating them.

I don't know about anyone else, but I like hardcore competition and trash talking between enemies. I don't really get why we have to treat our enemies like they are my teammates and best friends. I want EP to win, and I want all other enemy alliances and guilds to lose. Isn't that what it should be?

So 4 V 30 is hardcore competition? Locked pop EP vs 2 bars DC/AD is hardcore competition? You have no concept of competition in this game. Fight any group in this game even numbers, and see how competitive you are.

So calling a group of people cheater is friendly? Stomping and spitting on someone is friendly? I feel bad for your friends man.

I am not asking for you to treat me like your friend. I am asking that you don't treat my friends and I like dirt.

What would you like me to do then? When our raid sees you guys I should go, "wait wait wait! Ok, you 4 out of the raid go fight them and the rest of 20 will stand here and watch so it can be a fair fight. Good luck!".

No. I am going to play this game the way I like it. I am not going to play the game how you play it. Ever. I have had people t-bag us and /sweep us after a wipe and I never once thought, "Man, they have gone too far! How dare they use their fake, not real, video game character, to disrespect my fake, not real video game character! I should tell them to stop it cause it's mean".

Again, it's a VIDEO GAME. I am going to do whatever I want in it because I want to have fun while playing it. Period. I think some people are putting WAY too much emotion and taking things way too personally in this game. It's a little worrying to be honest.

Just play the game how you want to! You don't see Pact Militia telling people how they should play the game do you? We don't complain, we just play. And don't say it's because we run 50+ people and 4 raids. in the past 2 months the most we have run is 2, and that happens very rarely. Just play the game how you want to and let us play the way we want to. I am never going to change my style of play, ever. If I did, I wouldn't be having fun. I would I never even dream about telling you how to run your raid! That would be absolutely insane!

If you are not having fun fighting my raid, then don't come near us. Simple as that. Why should I change so that you don't get mad. If you were a teammate then this would be a whole different story. But you are my enemy. I want you to lose. Don't you want us to lose????

I don't hate you if that's what you are thinking. Don't take things so personally, it's just a game.

yall run no less than 2 raids or more on a nightly basis. I have been in your teamspeak during peak hours before and ganked your squad while in the same teamspeak and called it out without even being noticed im not in the guild... thats how many people yall have in that ts. it's hilarious.

Anyways.. i don't mind your numbers.. it's really good AP. I just mind the lag that comes with your 2+ full raids all in the same 20 meters