Trayyacakes wrote: »Wvortexman11 wrote: »
WHy would I ask for the one that already ignores block to be changed to ignore block bro?
This thread is about a root, not a stun. No root in game is blockable, besides talons. Only stun that ignores block in the game is fear. The other CCs that go through block break on damage making them more like disorients. I'm sorry you play a templar, the other red headed step child, and that a magicka DK killed you because that is the only reason for thinking talons should be blockable. If you want to make another thread about bugged templar skills or things you want for your class go for it, but for you to come here and argue the root on talons should remain blockable while no other roots in game are... you are either a troll, don't care about balance, don't know what balance is, or a combination of the three.
thelordoffelines wrote: »Wvortexman11 wrote: »
WHy would I ask for the one that already ignores block to be changed to ignore block bro?
You said "change the templar ground aoe..." Implying that you didnt know that it did go through block. Or
Or is right...additionally because I specifically named which one? But you cut that outa the quote so you wouldn't look stupid?
vortexman11 wrote: »thelordoffelines wrote: »Wvortexman11 wrote: »
WHy would I ask for the one that already ignores block to be changed to ignore block bro?
You said "change the templar ground aoe..." Implying that you didnt know that it did go through block. Or
Or is right...additionally because I specifically named which one? But you cut that outa the quote so you wouldn't look stupid?
I specifically said go change your morph...you've got an AoE that does DoT damage or an AoE that goes through block and only does damage on impact.
Also, this has nothing to do with talons, as talons is a root not the stuns that go through block (Fear/Luminous Shards/Rune Prison/Petrify)
Lol there is always some tool who goes strait to " sorry X class killed you" ...clever argument.
Thing is you got me all wrong, I'm not here to argue tallons should be the only AOE root in the game that is blockable, I here to argue they ALL should be.
You are a perfect example of the terrible logic going on here, thank you for contributing.
vortexman11 wrote: »thelordoffelines wrote: »Wvortexman11 wrote: »
WHy would I ask for the one that already ignores block to be changed to ignore block bro?
You said "change the templar ground aoe..." Implying that you didnt know that it did go through block. Or
Or is right...additionally because I specifically named which one? But you cut that outa the quote so you wouldn't look stupid?
I specifically said go change your morph...you've got an AoE that does DoT damage or an AoE that goes through block and only does damage on impact.
Also, this has nothing to do with talons, as talons is a root not the stuns that go through block (Fear/Luminous Shards/Rune Prison/Petrify)
Going back to my op I note some of the terrible logic flying around this thread ie. Other roots aren't blockable so tallons shouldn't be either.
Then I made a silly proposal that blazing spear should not be blockable because other cc is not blockable.
I'm sorry I confused you.
x99Needles wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?
The fact that this change was “intended” is actually very disheartening. From the beginning of the game CCs have had two forms that separated them. CCs referred to as a Hard CC, Fear, knockdown, Stun, etc. And then you have your Soft CCs, Roots, snares, etc. This mechanic is widely accepted and used by most all games with Crowd Control. I don’t think it is actually necessary to explain Crowd Control to the Devs, and I am not trying to be condescending. I’m simply laying the ground work for why this “intended” change is a depravity against Dragonknights.
I’m not sure what the argument is for making Talons CC blockable, though I am sure if we really look we could trace it back to a forum warrior QQing NB who was simply bad at PvP could not accept it and blamed it on a skill instead of his capability. Unfortunately as is the case for most games, if you want something changed, cry about it enough and the Devs will answer to the hordes. This issue with making Talons CC blockable is that by definition Talons “Roots” you. This is an accepted Soft CC in most all games and has been for the past year in ESOTU. So making this mechanic blockable is not only unfair to Dragonknights, but also violates the core mechanics of how you have chosen to make your CCs work.
I will list some examples for my argument.
Sorcerer:
Dark Magic – Encase
The skill itself is a simple root that receives additional effects after morphing, the pre-morphed and morphed versions are NOT blockable and both after effects of the skill are received no matter what.
Dark Magic – Daedric Mines
Again, all three versions of this skill immobilize you regardless of block, and all effects are received after the duration of the skill.
Nightblade:
Assassination – Teleport Strike
The base version of this skill as well as one of its morphs, Ambush, immobilize the target for 1 second after cast. This effect is NOT blockable, blocking it reduces damage done but neither negates the root nor the empower buff from Ambush.
Siphoning – Cripple
When morphed into Crippling Grasp, this skill immobilizes and damages on impact. The damage is mitigatable through block, the root is NOT.
Dragonknight:
Earthen Heart – Petrify
Once morphed into Fossilize, the stun from this skill actually goes through block, and more to the point, the enemy is rooted afterwards regardless of block.
Bow: Arrow Spray
Morphed into Bombard, this skill is an AoE root and additional snare when the root ends, again you CANNOT block the root from this skill.
Fighters Guild: Trap Beast
All three versions of this skill immobilize your opponent for six seconds and this is not blockable.
Dragonknight:
Draconic Power – Talons.
All three versions of this skill’s innate CC are now BLOCKABLE and damage is reduced, the DoT on burning talons is still applied but weaker through block, and the minor maim from Choking Talons is still applied for 4 seconds. Also because the CC is BLOCKABLE allies will still receive the prompt to synergize “impale” but attempting to synergize fails because the root which allows the synergy has been blocked.
There is a very simple indisputable fact that up to this point ZOS has not treated Roots as a hard CC, AKA NOT blockable. So this is not a question of whether or not you should revert this change, rather if you intend to go forward treating talons and only specifically talons as a Hard CC somehow, you need to adjust the aforementioned skills as well. Because if Talons is a Hard CC, then they all are, are they not? This would be a massive core change to the game and the way it is played.
When I first noticed that my Talons weren’t appearing I thought for sure something was wrong, so I tested with an opponent and discovered that he was able to Block my talons completely, mitigating damage dealt and preventing the root and synergy completely absolving the skill’s use on my bar. There was no question in my mind this was unintended, having Talons blockable completely ruins the skill. As a Dragonknight from BETA, I can say that we have received many deserved, and many questionable nerfs over the last year.
You’ve nerfed our banners. You ruined our class gap closer adjusting its axis because of exploitable mechanics. You destroyed the purpose behind Fragmented Shield, probably the best zerg buster you ever had. You made Molten Weapons a joke and it’s our supposed class execute. You clipped our Wings because of people’s inability to watch for the effect and simply not attack us with ranged skills while we have a Reflect up. You actually made Dragon Blood useless in cyrodiil with the changes to healing in 2.1. And now, you have crushed our Talons.
I love my Dragonknight, I love the class, and I love playing it. Dragonknights got a bad rep in the beginning due to undeniable balance issues that were eventually adjusted. However since then, every issue/question of balance in cyrodiil has unfairly fallen squarely on the shoulders of Dragonknights and this latest offense is unforgivable.
Talons CC needs to reverted to UNBLOCKABLE, or you need to adjust every other Root in this game and state that Roots are now considered Hard CCs. There is no reason to target Dragonknights here, Talons is no more unfair than any other Root in the game. It’s just the one more QQ’d about, because Dragonknight.
I will be watching for ZOS to appropriately revert this change they tried to implement without so much as a patch note. Or as I said state that they now consider roots a Hard CC.
I will be watching, with my Sorcerer on standby.
Thank you.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?
All cc should be blockable now with the changes to block and stam regen.
Both hard and soft cc is far to powerful in a game with no cooldowns to not have that option.
Once your knee stops jerking you may even realize it is a good change for the game.
Lava_Croft wrote: »This thread and the replies from @ZOS_GinaBruno are rather worrying overall.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?
OrdainedFaun wrote: »I suppose next they will stealth nerf flame lash, after all it is too cool. Or maybe adjust our DoT damage down further? But look on the bright side, the load screens are all now long enough for ZOS to begin inserting crown store advertisements for us to read while we wait!
OrdainedFaun wrote: »I suppose next they will stealth nerf flame lash, after all it is too cool. Or maybe adjust our DoT damage down further? But look on the bright side, the load screens are all now long enough for ZOS to begin inserting crown store advertisements for us to read while we wait!
I actually asked the other day why the stun on player with Flame Lash was taken away. Was told "It was to OP back in the day.." I literally face rolled my keyboard. Flame Lash stun is OP, but fear going through block isn't?
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?
I give my magicka DK up. The combat team hates us.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »The change to Talons now being blockable was intended; apologies for the undocumented change. That said, we are considering reverting this change in a future patch to make it not blockable again. What do you guys think?
Dk has bad resourcemanagement, no burst, no escape, no execute.... They even nerfed Battle Roar to ***... Dk didnt get any buff, why would they suddenly be good?willymchilybily wrote: »I give my magicka DK up. The combat team hates us.
I expect they thought (like i did initially) some changes might actually benefit us, natural class sustain in a patch where sustain is important because less damage/ more cost to heal.
As such this talons change wouldn't look so bad if DK's became a master race. Unfortunately turns out longer TTK didnt lead to the expected out come. Or at least not my expected outcome, (who knows what ZOS aim for when they make a decision) I guess though as they are already talking about reversing this decision in this thread, what they aimed for wasnt what they achieved for the magicka DK