NB fear should be blockable

NeoXanthus

I mainly play a VR14 Nord NB tank vamp, and up until patch 1.6, I could hold my own in PvP win some, lose some, but very happy with game all in all. Shortly after 1.6 Sorcs were starting to become demigods. Rather than complaining about the imbalance I started looking for something I use to defend against their attacks; nirnhomed seemed like the correct choice until I read this post last night. This fear skill is amazing, I had level 4 “Aspect of Terror” and level 4 “Manifestation of Terror” very early on when my character was only level 40 and on the first free re-roll of skills I dropped fear as it was useless to me at the time. Now I spent some skill point on it again, and tried it last night against some particularly nasty Sorcs in PvP. The results were night and day different. This truly is an equalizer I did not win every battle but I won some and the only difference is the use of fear. Thank you “Attorneyatlaw” I would not even know how awesome a skill for NB this is, thank you for the help.

Attorneyatlawl

NeoXanthus wrote: »

I mainly play a VR14 Nord NB tank vamp, and up until patch 1.6, I could hold my own in PvP win some, lose some, but very happy with game all in all. Shortly after 1.6 Sorcs were starting to become demigods. Rather than complaining about the imbalance I started looking for something I use to defend against their attacks; nirnhomed seemed like the correct choice until I read this post last night. This fear skill is amazing, I had level 4 “Aspect of Terror” and level 4 “Manifestation of Terror” very early on when my character was only level 40 and on the first free re-roll of skills I dropped fear as it was useless to me at the time. Now I spent some skill point on it again, and tried it last night against some particularly nasty Sorcs in PvP. The results were night and day different. This truly is an equalizer I did not win every battle but I won some and the only difference is the use of fear. Thank you “Attorneyatlaw” I would not even know how awesome a skill for NB this is, thank you for the help.

No problem. The sooner more people who play and speak from the perspective of something more than just the one character class they have ever played encounter the imbalance in game, the sooner feedback grows in quantity and quality regarding it. I would suggest not selling your nirnstones off, personally . It's always been a good skill, just not an undefendable one which instantly broke block to raise the incoming damage against proactive players who saw you coming, but now are unable to do anything about it . You've been missing out if you weren't running it since launch, for sure.

Ace_SiN

No it shouldn't.. It's one of the FEW skills that can actually counter block. I really hope ZOS doesn't take half baked idea threads like this seriously..

Attorneyatlawl

Ace_SiN wrote: »

No it shouldn't.. It's one of the FEW skills that can actually counter block. I really hope ZOS doesn't take half baked idea threads like this seriously..

"Few" skills? I'm not sure how the large number of aoe's that ignore block, multi hit skills which each cost the blocker a hit's worth of stamina multiple times per cast such as a light attack weaving with blood craze (4 hits every 1.2 seconds average which means 8100+ stamina to block before cost reductions), roots, or just sprinting away are only a "few" counters. The fact of the matter is that compared to other class crowd control skills, our fear as nightblades is completely out of line, having not only a unique factor with the damage debuff, but also not breaking on damage, affecting multiple targets (three people instead of just one), and additionally now forces block to drop on any affected enemies immediately and has nothing to counter it in advance other than reacting once it lands, rather than rewarding smart and prepared gameplay. If you don't have anything to say about the actual topic but a cursory dismissal, why even post, honestly?

Zhoyzu

Fear only counter to perma blocking, so its a good thing.

monkeymystic

Fear is such a huge OP impact on PvP atm its a joke. ZOS should have hotfixed this from the start, but instead they let people quit and lose subs because it ruins PvP...

Attorneyatlawl

Zhoyzu wrote: »

Fear only counter to perma blocking, so its a good thing.

I just listed almost a dozen other ones, that are actually balanced unlike the fear .

Ace_SiN

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

"Few" skills? I'm not sure how the large number of aoe's that ignore block, multi hit skills which each cost the blocker a hit's worth of stamina multiple times per cast such as a light attack weaving with blood craze (4 hits every 1.2 seconds average which means 8100+ stamina to block before cost reductions), roots, or just sprinting away are only a "few" counters.

Yea that all sounds nice until you come across a real permablocker. There are builds that easily keep up with all of the things you are talking about without any signs of letting go of right click. There are only a few reliable ways to counter permablockers and that's unloading dps during that brief window they are reacting to one of the few CCs that go through block(and to keep applying pressure afterwards).

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

The fact of the matter is that compared to other class crowd control skills, our fear as nightblades is completely out of line, having not only a unique factor with the damage debuff, but also not breaking on damage, affecting multiple targets (three people instead of just one), and additionally now forces block to drop on any affected enemies immediately and has nothing to counter it in advance other than reacting once it lands, rather than rewarding smart and prepared gameplay.

Fact is you could go down the list and pull up a bunch of skills that are out of line. This game's "balance" is to counter one extreme with another. Changing one extreme and ignoring the other is illogical.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

If you don't have anything to say about the actual topic but a cursory dismissal, why even post, honestly?

I gave my thought on the matter. It's one of the few skills that counter permablocking. There's really not much else that needs to be said. If you're out of stam when someone CCs you, then that's a l2p issue. Otherwise you know a NB is going to fear you, especially as you turtle, so be rdy to break it.

desciviib14_ESO

What I've been reading so far is that Fear needs to remain because it's the only way to counter perma-block. However; not every or even most are perma-blocking but most nightblades are using Fear. It's being used against EVERYBODY, not just perma-blockers. The ability to get out of it relies on not only very quick timing which is a legit skill in combat but then that same player must rely on the game to register the movement in time. It just isn't balanced.

As a tank, it's the only skill I fear running into because I can't do anything about it most of the time. I just have to hope that a healer and dps are nearby to occupy them until Im good again. If not, it's almost always a guaranteed win against me, not because I am poor skilled but because it basically locks me out of battle for long enough for a good dps to trash me even with 28k health

Lava_Croft

I think a lot of people are looking at Fear from the wrong perspective.

Nightblades do not have any reliable self heals, nor do they have any reliable shields. Unlike any of the other classes, they cannot press a single button to restore a ton of health or to gain a ton of protection. Nightblades have to first cast Fear and use the tiny window of opportunity to either try and Broak (a combination of Broken and Cloak) away or quickly cast something like Healing Ward. If only Nightblades could just save themselves by pressing a single button...

Once again, taking a single skill and comparing it to other skills while completely ignoring the classes they belong to is a fruitless exercise.

Cody

krim wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

the current nightblade fear skill is just completely out of line with every other ability's capabilities in ESO.

Kinda like bolt escape, eh? Or reflective scale. Or radiant destruction...

people just dont want to accept the fact that perma blocking is no longer an easy win.

Once this broken CC system gets fixed, people will get used to this ability and move on.

I haven't permablocked since after my first 10 minutes in a closed beta Cyrodiil test weekend back in July... of 2013. If you don't have a comment about the topic, why post? The problem is it being unblockable period, including what any non new player does which is blocking selective times and attacks. You then either on a magicka build cannot break free generally and die, or on a durable stamina build your block drops from the fear and you are bursted down inside of the time it takes the game to register your break free because you now are taking full damage instead of 15-20% per hit. I see many comments being made about skill and "learn to play" issues in regard to a very obvious imbalance in how the NB fear skill works inside of the game mechanics, which strikes me as ironic, but not much in the way of why it isn't imbalanced compared to other cc's .

that was about the topic. I said broken CC system, and fear is a CC

you have not perma blocked? good for you, but a majority of this PvP community has.

Nope far from the majority or we wouldnt have 1.6 right now. You have to remember that this game doesnt have cool downs, and combat wise is not like any game. Some people dont like one trick pony builds. These people are the minority not the majority.

come now krim... you played pre 1.6, dont sit there and lie like that:(

Lava_Croft

Cody wrote: »

krim wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

the current nightblade fear skill is just completely out of line with every other ability's capabilities in ESO.

Kinda like bolt escape, eh? Or reflective scale. Or radiant destruction...

people just dont want to accept the fact that perma blocking is no longer an easy win.

Once this broken CC system gets fixed, people will get used to this ability and move on.

I haven't permablocked since after my first 10 minutes in a closed beta Cyrodiil test weekend back in July... of 2013. If you don't have a comment about the topic, why post? The problem is it being unblockable period, including what any non new player does which is blocking selective times and attacks. You then either on a magicka build cannot break free generally and die, or on a durable stamina build your block drops from the fear and you are bursted down inside of the time it takes the game to register your break free because you now are taking full damage instead of 15-20% per hit. I see many comments being made about skill and "learn to play" issues in regard to a very obvious imbalance in how the NB fear skill works inside of the game mechanics, which strikes me as ironic, but not much in the way of why it isn't imbalanced compared to other cc's .

that was about the topic. I said broken CC system, and fear is a CC

you have not perma blocked? good for you, but a majority of this PvP community has.

Nope far from the majority or we wouldnt have 1.6 right now. You have to remember that this game doesnt have cool downs, and combat wise is not like any game. Some people dont like one trick pony builds. These people are the minority not the majority.

come now krim... you played pre 1.6, dont sit there and lie like that:(

When people's signatures are larger than the messages they post, it's time for ZOS to do something about it.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

NB's have been on these forums screaming for sorc nerfs everyday so I hesitate to do the same to them. Every class has powerful abilities that are OP when spammed. But skills are the most OP when they aren't working as intended. I remember when DK invasion + talons used to stunlock and you would have to eat 3-4 lava whips before you could break free - if you were even still alive at that point. Most frustrating thing ever.

Fear is "OP" because IT IS BUGGED. Unbreakable CC is REAL. Chain fear by multiple NBs is real.

When I fight NBs, I either go from full stamina to dead in seconds without being able to CC break or I have to CC break fear multiple times with no immunity period in between.

• Fix the damn ability so that I can break it IMMEDIATELY - EVERY DAMN TIME.
• Make sure that this ability gives you global CC immunity IMMEDIATELY after break.

As I always say in nerf threads, fix the damn meta and broken game mechanics first, then get to class balancing. If you nerf (or buff) first, then change the meta or fix the bugs after, classes get unfairly nerfed into ground or buffed to demi-god status. There is so much wrong with the meta and mechanics that it screams for fixes before class balance is ever touched.

Edit: In summary Fear causes two game breaking issues. (click on the links for more information on each issue)

1. There are times where fear cannot be CC broken even if you have full stamina.
2. Fear does not give you CC immunity after effect ends. (This allows multiple NBs or spammers to chain CC)

As @Lava_Croft said in this post and @Huntler has described in his post: dear ZOS, your cc is not working, this issue occurs with other types of CC as well. It seems most noticeable in fear recently.

Cody

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

krim wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

the current nightblade fear skill is just completely out of line with every other ability's capabilities in ESO.

Kinda like bolt escape, eh? Or reflective scale. Or radiant destruction...

people just dont want to accept the fact that perma blocking is no longer an easy win.

Once this broken CC system gets fixed, people will get used to this ability and move on.

I haven't permablocked since after my first 10 minutes in a closed beta Cyrodiil test weekend back in July... of 2013. If you don't have a comment about the topic, why post? The problem is it being unblockable period, including what any non new player does which is blocking selective times and attacks. You then either on a magicka build cannot break free generally and die, or on a durable stamina build your block drops from the fear and you are bursted down inside of the time it takes the game to register your break free because you now are taking full damage instead of 15-20% per hit. I see many comments being made about skill and "learn to play" issues in regard to a very obvious imbalance in how the NB fear skill works inside of the game mechanics, which strikes me as ironic, but not much in the way of why it isn't imbalanced compared to other cc's .

that was about the topic. I said broken CC system, and fear is a CC

you have not perma blocked? good for you, but a majority of this PvP community has.

Nope far from the majority or we wouldnt have 1.6 right now. You have to remember that this game doesnt have cool downs, and combat wise is not like any game. Some people dont like one trick pony builds. These people are the minority not the majority.

come now krim... you played pre 1.6, dont sit there and lie like that:(

When people's signatures are larger than the messages they post, it's time for ZOS to do something about it.

surely you can do better than that.

i give you a 1/10 simply because i responded.

Obscure

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

I remember when DK invasion + talons used to stunlock and you would have to eat 3-4 lava whips before you could break free - if you were even still alive at that point. Most frustrating thing ever.

I remember it too...happened literally yesterday. ZOS doesn't fix things, they just send the bug on vacation for awhile.

...not even mentioning the "oh hey your skills don't work right now for no reason" bug...

Fear needs fixed for sure, but yeah it's SOOOO not alone.

Folkb

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

NB's have been on these forums screaming for sorc nerfs everyday so I hesitate to do the same to them. Every class has powerful abilities that are OP when spammed. But skills are the most OP when they aren't working as intended. I remember when DK invasion + talons used to stunlock and you would have to eat 3-4 lava whips before you could break free - if you were even still alive at that point. Most frustrating thing ever.

Fear is "OP" because IT IS BUGGED. Unbreakable CC is REAL. Chain fear by multiple NBs is real.

When I fight NBs, I either go from full stamina to dead in seconds without being able to CC break or I have to CC break fear multiple times with no immunity period in between.

• Fix the damn ability so that I can break it IMMEDIATELY - EVERY DAMN TIME.
• Make sure that this ability gives you global CC immunity IMMEDIATELY after break.

As I always say in nerf threads, fix the damn meta and broken game mechanics first, then get to class balancing. If you nerf (or buff) first, then change the meta or fix the bugs after, classes get unfairly nerfed into ground or buffed to demi-god status. There is so much wrong with the meta and mechanics that it screams for fixes before class balance is ever touched.

combat mechanics in this game are so bad, I doubt they'll ever fix it.

makes me want to go back to my last MMO, it may not be as involving with blocking and dodge rolling all the time but at least those devs can put out a system that was intended to work as they anticipated it would.

Emma_Overload

Zhoyzu wrote: »

Fear only counter to perma blocking, so its a good thing.

Why should only ONE class have a spell effect that can override blocking, something all classes do?

Cody

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Zhoyzu wrote: »

Fear only counter to perma blocking, so its a good thing.

Why should only ONE class have a spell effect that can override blocking, something all classes do?

well DKs have petrify

sorcs have rune prison i believe.

im sure templars have something too.

dafox187

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

It's the only CC in the game you cannot prevent in advance by blocking, and it's also the only aoe "soft" cc that does not break on damage. Templars can hit you with a ground target shards, but you are free if even so much as a DoT tick from them hits you. DK's can fossilize you, but as soon as you're hit you have a chance to react. Same deal with sorcerers and their rune prison. You also can block most cc's like these. However, if an NB fears you and you don't have enough stamina to CC break, you're done: they can unload damage on you as you run helplessly in a random direction. On magicka builds this is particularly nasty an issue as you already run on a tightrope to manage blocking important attacks.

If a nightblade with fear runs into you and you don't always maintain enough stamina for a CC break move, popping fear is essentially an automatic win for them. No other skill in the game is like this with no way to defend against it. The added debuffs were a great addition, but the more recent change to being unblockable just is outright on another level of power compared to every other CC move in the game, amounting to a stunlock.

noooo

Folkb

dafox187 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

It's the only CC in the game you cannot prevent in advance by blocking, and it's also the only aoe "soft" cc that does not break on damage. Templars can hit you with a ground target shards, but you are free if even so much as a DoT tick from them hits you. DK's can fossilize you, but as soon as you're hit you have a chance to react. Same deal with sorcerers and their rune prison. You also can block most cc's like these. However, if an NB fears you and you don't have enough stamina to CC break, you're done: they can unload damage on you as you run helplessly in a random direction. On magicka builds this is particularly nasty an issue as you already run on a tightrope to manage blocking important attacks.

If a nightblade with fear runs into you and you don't always maintain enough stamina for a CC break move, popping fear is essentially an automatic win for them. No other skill in the game is like this with no way to defend against it. The added debuffs were a great addition, but the more recent change to being unblockable just is outright on another level of power compared to every other CC move in the game, amounting to a stunlock.

noooo

Sure nerf Fear, then nerf BE, DK hugs and jesus beam.

Lava_Croft

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

NB's have been on these forums screaming for sorc nerfs everyday so I hesitate to do the same to them. Every class has powerful abilities that are OP when spammed. But skills are the most OP when they aren't working as intended. I remember when DK invasion + talons used to stunlock and you would have to eat 3-4 lava whips before you could break free - if you were even still alive at that point. Most frustrating thing ever.

Fear is "OP" because IT IS BUGGED. Unbreakable CC is REAL. Chain fear by multiple NBs is real.

When I fight NBs, I either go from full stamina to dead in seconds without being able to CC break or I have to CC break fear multiple times with no immunity period in between.

• Fix the damn ability so that I can break it IMMEDIATELY - EVERY DAMN TIME.
• Make sure that this ability gives you global CC immunity IMMEDIATELY after break.

As I always say in nerf threads, fix the damn meta and broken game mechanics first, then get to class balancing. If you nerf (or buff) first, then change the meta or fix the bugs after, classes get unfairly nerfed into ground or buffed to demi-god status. There is so much wrong with the meta and mechanics that it screams for fixes before class balance is ever touched.

CC in general is broken, which includes Fear. CC being unbreakable is no way exclusive to Fear. Here is a thread concerning the actual problems with CC being broken: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/167991/dear-zos-your-cc-is-not-working

Attorneyatlawl

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

NB's have been on these forums screaming for sorc nerfs everyday so I hesitate to do the same to them. Every class has powerful abilities that are OP when spammed. But skills are the most OP when they aren't working as intended. I remember when DK invasion + talons used to stunlock and you would have to eat 3-4 lava whips before you could break free - if you were even still alive at that point. Most frustrating thing ever.

Fear is "OP" because IT IS BUGGED. Unbreakable CC is REAL. Chain fear by multiple NBs is real.

When I fight NBs, I either go from full stamina to dead in seconds without being able to CC break or I have to CC break fear multiple times with no immunity period in between.

• Fix the damn ability so that I can break it IMMEDIATELY - EVERY DAMN TIME.
• Make sure that this ability gives you global CC immunity IMMEDIATELY after break.

As I always say in nerf threads, fix the damn meta and broken game mechanics first, then get to class balancing. If you nerf (or buff) first, then change the meta or fix the bugs after, classes get unfairly nerfed into ground or buffed to demi-god status. There is so much wrong with the meta and mechanics that it screams for fixes before class balance is ever touched.

Hm, I don't think I've seen a better argument for user interface improvements so we can see what's happening, recently. I did mention this sort of thing in feedback a few of the times I came across serious broken mechanics. I couldn't agree more then that the bugs should be fixed first before any real talk of nerfs happens then . I rarely have ever asked about something to have it just nerfed, but it looks like the issues I was seeing are not due to he skill but a big mechanic bug. If we had actual ways to see buffs and debuff applied to or by us this wouldn't have been unnoticed for longer than five minutes, but there are no ingame options to do so and even the addon api isn't allowed to, instead being left almost entirely to use artificial guesstimate. Thanks foryyour post, Swag.

Jakeol

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

There are plenty of non-tanks out there that can live long enough to CC break and get block up/dodgeroll/heals/damageshields up, if you are dieing in a single fear, as a tank, you're probably being zerged down, or someone is investing significant resources (aka an ult) to finish you in that 1 sec timeframe they have to get some damage in before you can break fear. It really is a L2P issue honestly. If you get cced, you have to break free fast or you will die. This is the case versus any class. React faster, or don't get into 10v1 situations, guess what? You're not a special snowflake, everyone dies in 10v1 cases at some point. Drink some cement and harden up m8.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

NB's have been on these forums screaming for sorc nerfs everyday so I hesitate to do the same to them. Every class has powerful abilities that are OP when spammed. But skills are the most OP when they aren't working as intended. I remember when DK invasion + talons used to stunlock and you would have to eat 3-4 lava whips before you could break free - if you were even still alive at that point. Most frustrating thing ever.

Fear is "OP" because IT IS BUGGED. Unbreakable CC is REAL. Chain fear by multiple NBs is real.

When I fight NBs, I either go from full stamina to dead in seconds without being able to CC break or I have to CC break fear multiple times with no immunity period in between.

• Fix the damn ability so that I can break it IMMEDIATELY - EVERY DAMN TIME.
• Make sure that this ability gives you global CC immunity IMMEDIATELY after break.

As I always say in nerf threads, fix the damn meta and broken game mechanics first, then get to class balancing. If you nerf (or buff) first, then change the meta or fix the bugs after, classes get unfairly nerfed into ground or buffed to demi-god status. There is so much wrong with the meta and mechanics that it screams for fixes before class balance is ever touched.

Hm, I don't think I've seen a better argument for user interface improvements so we can see what's happening, recently. I did mention this sort of thing in feedback a few of the times I came across serious broken mechanics. I couldn't agree more then that the bugs should be fixed first before any real talk of nerfs happens then . I rarely have ever asked about something to have it just nerfed, but it looks like the issues I was seeing are not due to he skill but a big mechanic bug. If we had actual ways to see buffs and debuff applied to or by us this wouldn't have been unnoticed for longer than five minutes, but there are no ingame options to do so and even the addon api isn't allowed to, instead being left almost entirely to use artificial guesstimate. Thanks foryyour post, Swag.

If you haven't seen it, watch this video from @Ezareth from his recent post titled Fear - Fix it. It is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Thanks Ezareth for taking the time to document this. It is as frustrating to watch as it is to experience first hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMcY_dbo52s

98% stamina. Impossible to break out of fear. Seems like a problem introduced with the new patch that drops block while under fear. So the game prevents you from blocking while feared and most people use Block key + light attack key to CC break. Hmmm... I don't see anything that could go wrong with that.

Ezareth

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

It's the only CC in the game you cannot prevent in advance by blocking, and it's also the only aoe "soft" cc that does not break on damage. Templars can hit you with a ground target shards, but you are free if even so much as a DoT tick from them hits you. DK's can fossilize you, but as soon as you're hit you have a chance to react. Same deal with sorcerers and their rune prison. You also can block most cc's like these. However, if an NB fears you and you don't have enough stamina to CC break, you're done: they can unload damage on you as you run helplessly in a random direction. On magicka builds this is particularly nasty an issue as you already run on a tightrope to manage blocking important attacks.

If a nightblade with fear runs into you and you don't always maintain enough stamina for a CC break move, popping fear is essentially an automatic win for them. No other skill in the game is like this with no way to defend against it. The added debuffs were a great addition, but the more recent change to being unblockable just is outright on another level of power compared to every other CC move in the game, amounting to a stunlock.

I don't think Fear is OP, I think it is a class flavor of the Nightblade Class. Every class should have some unique and powerful abilities at their disposal. The entire nightblade class is built around stealth and surprise stun attacks. Having fear break on damage would significantly gimp the class.

Fear does however need fixed so that break free works on it 100% of the time, otherwise it bugs too easily and people get free kills on you. Everyone who wants to be successful at PvP needs to build and account for CC. There are a multitude of different options out there and I feel strongly that if you get caught without enough stamina to break free then you should probably die. Resource management is what separates good players from the bad.

Erock25

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Fear and fossilize need a change. All the nb in here bringing up wards and heals and they don't even realize they have the most op pvp class in the game right now. Fear being blockable wouldn't even effect me and I still think a change is necessary. Fossilize is ridiculous because it's instant cast and it comes with a root. Be prepared to CC break and then roll dodge out of the root.

I agree with this. Also reminds me of the long, drawn out threads of people complaining Sorcs stunk and would stink in 1.6 so badly the class may as well be deleted where I argued they would be very well off in actuality. We all know that the complaints weren't true by now, and it is the same case on this issue too.

Not to take your thread off topic, but you started it, so here it goes. I've seen you pop into a few threads now saying, 'See I told you so about Sorc being strong,' but Sorc is only known as strong in PVP and 95%+ of the pre1.6 Sorc QQ was directed at PVE. I didn't see anyone claiming Sorc would be weak in PVP on the PTS forums and in fact most suggestions had a caveat that they may be hard to implement without making Sorc too strong in PVP. Keep patting yourself on the back though for some odd reason. Sorc PVE DPS is still low compared to other classes as far as I am concerned. Sorc PVE utility is also low. I'm surprised you don't remember with all the PTS commenting you did that literally all of the complaints were PVE related.

Also, while I do think Sorc IS strong in PVP, I believe the pendulum is already swinging away from them as people realize the power of stam builds and dodge roll.

Ezareth

Joy_Division wrote: »

There are two issues that I have with fear have been brought up in this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/167991/dear-zos-your-cc-is-not-working/p1

• It does not seem to be granting immunity if the effect is not broken. Or at least consistently.
• It does seem to take longer than other CCs to break. One poster theorized this was an unintended consequence of them removing the ability to block through the effect.

As for the OP, I am of the opinion that fear was tolerable in 1.5 because the time to kill was not so ridiculously low. Sure, maybe the game needs ways to attack perma-blockers, but when you take down the ability to defend themselves, particularly a tank, it is almost instadeath in 1.6. Thus this means I have a bigger problem with how fear functions in the 1.6 environment than the skill itself.

I can't determine whether or not CC immunity is given automatically from Fear because since 1.6 I've yet to survive a fear that I didn't break free of once. I'm not exaggerating at all. Whether it grants CC immunity if it isn't broken I don't think is a big issue, definitely not as big as the other issue in that it takes too long to break free.

I break free of CC damn near instantly *constantly* sometimes I break free of a stun or knockdown so quick it is almost as if I wasn't stunned. That *never* happens with fear. Something is definitely different and/or broken there. I think if we fix that, a lot of people who think Fear is OP are going to find it is very powerful, but counterable as it should be.

Erock25

Ezareth wrote: »

I break free of CC damn near instantly *constantly* sometimes I break free of a stun or knockdown so quick it is almost as if I wasn't stunned. That *never* happens with fear. Something is definitely different and/or broken there. I think if we fix that, a lot of people who think Fear is OP are going to find it is very powerful, but counterable as it should be.

Yes this is it. I mean I break free from Wrecking Blows before I even land. I'm still going up from the knockback when the breakfree animation triggers. With fear I almost always move a good 2-3 steps before the break free can trigger.

RinaldoGandolphi

@Ezareth Agreed. If you don't break free of fear you are pretty much guaranteed to die.

I think making Fear break on damage, would be the way to go. It would still be a powerful CC, but it wouldn't be a death sentence. NB could still use it to get away from more then 1 attacker, especially if being ganged up on.

I think having a hard CC that you can't block, that allows them to unload on your repeatedly, while losing control of your character, that the lag situation makes worse is just..yeah

Imagine the Rune Prison Spam if it didn't break on damage....AND was an instant cast....

NB get Instant cast Fear
DK get instant cast Fossilize that is a Stun AND A Root.
Sorc's get Rune Prison with the ungodly 1.5 sec cast time and breaks on damage.

The Joy of being a Sorc eh?

Ezareth

woodsro wrote: »

@Ezareth Agreed. If you don't break free of fear you are pretty much guaranteed to die.

I think making Fear break on damage, would be the way to go. It would still be a powerful CC, but it wouldn't be a death sentence. NB could still use it to get away from more then 1 attacker, especially if being ganged up on.

I think having a hard CC that you can't block, that allows them to unload on your repeatedly, while losing control of your character, that the lag situation makes worse is just..yeah

Imagine the Rune Prison Spam if it didn't break on damage....AND was an instant cast....

NB get Instant cast Fear
DK get instant cast Fossilize that is a Stun AND A Root.
Sorc's get Rune Prison with the ungodly 1.5 sec cast time and breaks on damage.

The Joy of being a Sorc eh?

Every class should be unique. Not every class should be able to do everything another class does.

I'm fine with NBs having the best CC. Defensive Rune is unique and powerful in it's own way. The cast time version though...meh. Carebear morph IMO.