NB fear should be blockable

vyndral13preub18_ESO

This is an interesting thread. What i have gathered so far.

1. Fear acts differently then a lot of other cc's so it needs nerfed.

2. But since NBs dont have shields or a instant heal, they will be compensated with a skill that perhaps acts differently then some of its counter parts for balancing.

At least we arent going in circles or anything.

Athas24

Honestly... just keep enough stamina to break the dumb cc. Problem solved. Stop sprinting around all over, blocking and rolling and you'll have plenty of stamina. If not... put more stamina into your character and sacrifice some damage.:p

The_Drexill

All the crying is insane. There are tanks every single night that take a beating from 5 people and don't die.

Stop building your character that way. I keep hearing that people are going 100% defense with no offense and whining that they can't "tank" 10 people. It's not viable.

If you build your character defensive and I build mine offensive, you shouldn't be able to completely mitigate my damage... we should meet in the middle. That's where fear and petrify come in. Stop whining and learn mechanics.

I've yet to die solely because I was feared... I just cc break it.

krim

Spangla wrote: »

krim wrote: »

Right now fear is destroying anyone trying to play a tank/blocking build. If you have more than 3 people on you and get feared, even if you break it instantly you die. Fear has always been a counter pre 1.6 but what makes it exceptionally strong now is it makes you drop block. Add in also that you dont have the same ulti gen anymore tanks are pretty much useless, and instantly die the second you get feared.

1.6 claims to have tried to break up zergs but what it did was make them stronger and the only way to live. At least before you had tank builds that were possible with all classes. Who could charge in and disrupt a large group of enemies. Since im not dropping ulti every 5 seconds. Make it so i dont drop block, so i dont die instantly and have time to actually break out of fear.

I play a sap tank - it isnt destroying anything. Your talking rubbish fact

If you are tanking 30 it is a problem. And it should be obviously.

If you are tanking 5 it is no problem, l2p.

The problem is dks are used to facerolling nb's with ease. Now they have to L2P

Who are you? Lets see a video.

cozmon3c_ESO

Athas24 wrote: »

Honestly... just keep enough stamina to break the dumb cc. Problem solved. Stop sprinting around all over, blocking and rolling and you'll have plenty of stamina. If not... put more stamina into your character and sacrifice some damage.:p

The issue really isnt that you cannot cc break, the issue is this combo, Ambush-Fear-High Burst. this works on everybody up to tanks and back down again with no real skillful counter. everyone is going from full to dead, cc break is sucking it up right now. and i believe every skill in the game should have a counter on the spot, not have to use an ability like immovable that only is usefull for a stam user, or immovable potion (when you know damn well you need a detect pot if you want to kill most nightblades that know how to play). only 2 counters to fear, wtf, none being realy viable because you cant see the nightblade coming with this combo because they are stealthed and invisible. GG to all those who think this is in anyway balance, laugh it up because it will be nerfed, especially since the TTK is way up now.

Nivzruo_ESO

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

Honestly... just keep enough stamina to break the dumb cc. Problem solved. Stop sprinting around all over, blocking and rolling and you'll have plenty of stamina. If not... put more stamina into your character and sacrifice some damage.:p

The issue really isnt that you cannot cc break, the issue is this combo, Ambush-Fear-High Burst. this works on everybody up to tanks and back down again with no real skillful counter. everyone is going from full to dead, cc break is sucking it up right now. and i believe every skill in the game should have a counter on the spot, not have to use an ability like immovable that only is usefull for a stam user, or immovable potion (when you know damn well you need a detect pot if you want to kill most nightblades that know how to play). only 2 counters to fear, wtf, none being realy viable because you cant see the nightblade coming with this combo because they are stealthed and invisible. GG to all those who think this is in anyway balance, laugh it up because it will be nerfed, especially since the TTK is way up now.

Sure they can nerf it, right after they nerf sorc superman spec, 20k instant CF & 15k Overload light attacks with a 20-30k shield.. I'd trade fear for any one of those any day. Any F-ing day.

Btw, the ambush>fear combo doesn't work on good sorcs, since so0n as you ambush you get cc'd from rune prison or something ( encases you in 3 shards)by the time it takes me to break that you've done bolt/bubbled/burst/w.e you wanna do.. gg.

Nivzruo_ESO

Nvm..-edit b4 I get banned :P - nothing to see here.

cozmon3c_ESO

Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

Honestly... just keep enough stamina to break the dumb cc. Problem solved. Stop sprinting around all over, blocking and rolling and you'll have plenty of stamina. If not... put more stamina into your character and sacrifice some damage.:p

The issue really isnt that you cannot cc break, the issue is this combo, Ambush-Fear-High Burst. this works on everybody up to tanks and back down again with no real skillful counter. everyone is going from full to dead, cc break is sucking it up right now. and i believe every skill in the game should have a counter on the spot, not have to use an ability like immovable that only is usefull for a stam user, or immovable potion (when you know damn well you need a detect pot if you want to kill most nightblades that know how to play). only 2 counters to fear, wtf, none being realy viable because you cant see the nightblade coming with this combo because they are stealthed and invisible. GG to all those who think this is in anyway balance, laugh it up because it will be nerfed, especially since the TTK is way up now.

Sure they can nerf it, right after they nerf sorc superman spec, 20k instant CF & 15k Overload light attacks with a 20-30k shield.. I'd trade fear for any one of those any day. Any F-ing day.

Btw, the ambush>fear combo doesn't work on good sorcs, since son as you ambush you get cc'd from rune prison or something ( encases you in 3 shards) by the time it tame me to break that you've done bolt/bubbled/burst/w.e you wanna do.. gg.

so your telling me you cant own my 10k hardened ward shield (the only one that stops stamina attacks) with the Ambush-Fear-Burst combo, lol. you sir are playing NB gimped and no wonder you are having trouble playing NB. And if you are getting hit by frags or overlaod, the easiest damage to avoid next to that templar slow moving projectile, then your skill level really must be called into question here.

Hmm lets compare Rune to Fear, rune has a 1.5 second cast time, fear is instant cast. Rune is interruptable, fear is not. Rune can be placed on your offensively after a 1.5 second cast or morphed to be defensive to where it goes off if your health is touched. compare that to fear with one morph it is defensive and offensive at the same damn time. Rune breaks on damage, fear does not, gg. wow am i seeing a major imbalance to your argument or what.

There are many many NB's out there that can one shot you through Rune prison with a full 11k shield up bypassing the Rune prison stun. if you are unable to do that then guess what your NB build is in the suck zone right now.

Mataata

Fear is special in that it's the only thing that can cancel a block. I'm tired of infinitanks being able to block every single little thing and fears are the only answer.

desciviib14_ESO

Obscure wrote: »

There's far too much imbalance in general to only target Fear.

Dragonknight needs to be addressed for class design (the melee specific class yet it is the one that has no reliable gap closer, coupled with nerfs to its survivability against ranged attackers, a DK is forced into 2hndr and/or 1hnd+Shield to be viable). Templar Radiant Destruction needs to be addressed for role balance and actual trade offs (when my healer is putting out well over 17k DPS AT RANGE AND healing the party, there's an effin' problem). Sorcerer needs to be addressed for class design (no stamina support in the class, and abusive "damage shield stack, burst, bolt away" rinse and repeat making a total mockery of any intended combat balance in PvP. Forcing a chase in EVERY fight against a Sorcerer removes my desire to fight them at all...yeah I can catch them, but damnit am I soooooo sick of needing to chase the ass holes down, bolt after bolt after bolt after effin' bolt).

The biggest issue I take with Fear has to do with how immunity against it is bugged, and after breaking it, will only make me immune to that person's CC's, though the other Nightblade they're with can Fear me again just fine. Being unblockably hard CC'ed is one thing, but in an ecosystem with instagib "Incapacitating strike + Executioner", it's a whole different level of "What ass hole thought this was balanced!?". Same goes for Fossilise + Crit Charge + Executioner and the Radiant Destruction + Radiant Destruction + Radiant Destruction + Guess what? RADIANT DESTRUCTION MOTHER ***!!

PvP is just a jumble of asinine " I win!" buttons and bull *** "I win!" combos. Skill based play is a laughable absurdity in ESO. I don't care how good you are, it's all a matter of who is better at abusing the mechanics, be it Fear abuse, Radiant Destruction abuse, Invasion + Talons abuse, unblockable CC + insta-gib abuse, shield stack + burst + bolt away abuse, and on and on and on and effin' on. All of PvP is a particularly aggravating experience in open field fighting, it's no wonder people zerg up and fight over keeps, everything else is a bunch of no-skill-reqiured-asshatery.

If your build isn't abusing the hell out of the mechanics it's a bad build for PvP. PERIOD.

THIS ^^^

It sucks that the most viable build is the Exploiter.There really is no such thing as winning with real skill, it's about reading the patch notes and knowing what/how to exploit the latest changes.

Cody

krim wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

krim wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

A couple of options:

A ) Have insane reaction time to break CC before bursted down by multiple opponents.
B ) Dodge roll after getting ambushed & stay further than 6m away from NBs. They'll waste all their magicka fearing thin air.
C ) Use Immovable. It's kind of what this skill is designed for.

A) There is no reaction time to 10 people beating on you.
B ) I'm a tank
C) I do use Immovable and try to keep it up 100% but it doesnt seem to work 100% of the time. (I cast it every 5 seconds)

I think you still think this is about a 1v1 and now i see you dont quite get the situation im in.

i remember when one DK could kill 20 people solo....

good times:)

Do you have a video of this also?

nah, it was back in 1.5

I remember when one vamp DK literally killed almost 20 people....

lol

Cody

Sharee wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

the current nightblade fear skill is just completely out of line with every other ability's capabilities in ESO.

Kinda like bolt escape, eh? Or reflective scale. Or radiant destruction...

people just dont want to accept the fact that perma blocking is no longer an easy win.

Once this broken CC system gets fixed, people will get used to this ability and move on.

Attorneyatlawl

Cody wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

the current nightblade fear skill is just completely out of line with every other ability's capabilities in ESO.

Kinda like bolt escape, eh? Or reflective scale. Or radiant destruction...

people just dont want to accept the fact that perma blocking is no longer an easy win.

Once this broken CC system gets fixed, people will get used to this ability and move on.

I haven't permablocked since after my first 10 minutes in a closed beta Cyrodiil test weekend back in July... of 2013. If you don't have a comment about the topic, why post? The problem is it being unblockable period, including what any non new player does which is blocking selective times and attacks. You then either on a magicka build cannot break free generally and die, or on a durable stamina build your block drops from the fear and you are bursted down inside of the time it takes the game to register your break free because you now are taking full damage instead of 15-20% per hit. I see many comments being made about skill and "learn to play" issues in regard to a very obvious imbalance in how the NB fear skill works inside of the game mechanics, which strikes me as ironic, but not much in the way of why it isn't imbalanced compared to other cc's .

Raash

NB´s shouldnt have a fear really, there is nothing scary about them. Cowards hiding & using bows from a far mostly

Sensesfail13

Couldnt agree more. Or better yet, just get rid of the fear skill because all they do it spam it and CC break costs too much damned stamina.

Attorneyatlawl

Sensesfail13 wrote: »

Couldnt agree more. Or better yet, just get rid of the fear skill because all they do it spam it and CC break costs too much damned stamina.

No, it just should be blockable again. It still would retain the advantage of affecting multiple enemies unlike the other class baseline crowd controls and not breaking on damage, leaving it in a more powerful, but fair, unique state.

krim

Fact is everyone and their mum is getting 2-3 shot these days.

Cody wrote: »

krim wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

krim wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

A couple of options:

A ) Have insane reaction time to break CC before bursted down by multiple opponents.
B ) Dodge roll after getting ambushed & stay further than 6m away from NBs. They'll waste all their magicka fearing thin air.
C ) Use Immovable. It's kind of what this skill is designed for.

A) There is no reaction time to 10 people beating on you.
B ) I'm a tank
C) I do use Immovable and try to keep it up 100% but it doesnt seem to work 100% of the time. (I cast it every 5 seconds)

I think you still think this is about a 1v1 and now i see you dont quite get the situation im in.

i remember when one DK could kill 20 people solo....

good times:)

Do you have a video of this also?

nah, it was back in 1.5

I remember when one vamp DK literally killed almost 20 people....

lol

I doubt it was in 1.5. Although possible the conditions had to have been perfect and i mean perfect for that dk. 20 scrubby players most of them who probably werent even vr 1 all standing in a little room not spreading out thinking they can kill a dk standing in his banner. I have played with some of probably the most known DKs. Fireshot, Permared, Luvboard, Kaghei all of them aoe ulti builds batswamers and standard after standard droppers. I know what they were capable of 1.5

and it wasnt this anymore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwiG-O6NUjc

Attorneyatlawl

krim wrote: »

Fact is everyone and their mum is getting 2-3 shot these days.

I'm not having that issue... until a nightblade runs up and fears me on any of my characters, at which point I have no block or ability to dodge and take full damage from everything, generally dying before any effective action can be performed against it while no proactive play could stop the fear from hitting me as it's unblockable. On my tanky builds it's from being forced to drop block automatically in the middle of being spiked and then exploding to giblets, while on my caster builds it's from not being able to do anything much in advance about it since if I block, it hits me anyway, and if I dodge away it takes only a split second longer for them to fear me . On my nightblade it's mostly the same as my tanky type setups so far, where it's not the cc break that's the issue but rather there being no way to prevent it in advance and thus getting spiked, avoiding with dodge and/or blocking and LOS, but then being hit by a fear and dying in a split-second anyways with no way to prevent it.

Obscure

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Sensesfail13 wrote: »

Couldnt agree more. Or better yet, just get rid of the fear skill because all they do it spam it and CC break costs too much damned stamina.

No, it just should be blockable again. It still would retain the advantage of affecting multiple enemies unlike the other class baseline crowd controls and not breaking on damage, leaving it in a more powerful, but fair, unique state.

I think blocking isn't the answer, not to say that Fear, Fossilise, and Rune Prison are balanced as unblockable hard CC's. I'm all about counter play, and as such find more value in direct skill or build counters. I detest internal cool downs, loathe diminishing returns, and certainly despise nerfs. My thoughts are that for EVERY build there should exist within EVERY class an equal and opposite counter build. For example, Sorc lightning form could make them take 50% less damage while stunned, or DK Ash Cloud could confer the same 50% damage reduction while stunned for all allies in the area of effect, once more Purge in the Alliance war support line could be used while CC'ed to also clear CC's giving players a Magicka break option.

Suffice it to say I'm just as sick and tired of the Fear abuse as the next guy, but I'm even sicker of ZOS lazily playing wack-a-mole with the nerf hammer or cranking up the power screw till they snap the head off of the mother *** (effin' 2hndr), all without ever legitimately considering balancing the damn game (I.E. "let's make a few hard CC's unblockable." - "cool, what's the counterplay?" - "nothing" - "... Brilliant! Push it live!")

jelliedsoup

Raash wrote: »

NB´s shouldnt have a fear really, there is nothing scary about them. Cowards hiding & using bows from a far mostly

Lol look forward to sniping you and then get a whisper saying " fight like a man".

Cody

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

the current nightblade fear skill is just completely out of line with every other ability's capabilities in ESO.

Kinda like bolt escape, eh? Or reflective scale. Or radiant destruction...

people just dont want to accept the fact that perma blocking is no longer an easy win.

Once this broken CC system gets fixed, people will get used to this ability and move on.

I haven't permablocked since after my first 10 minutes in a closed beta Cyrodiil test weekend back in July... of 2013. If you don't have a comment about the topic, why post? The problem is it being unblockable period, including what any non new player does which is blocking selective times and attacks. You then either on a magicka build cannot break free generally and die, or on a durable stamina build your block drops from the fear and you are bursted down inside of the time it takes the game to register your break free because you now are taking full damage instead of 15-20% per hit. I see many comments being made about skill and "learn to play" issues in regard to a very obvious imbalance in how the NB fear skill works inside of the game mechanics, which strikes me as ironic, but not much in the way of why it isn't imbalanced compared to other cc's .

that was about the topic. I said broken CC system, and fear is a CC

you have not perma blocked? good for you, but a majority of this PvP community has.

krim

Cody wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

the current nightblade fear skill is just completely out of line with every other ability's capabilities in ESO.

Kinda like bolt escape, eh? Or reflective scale. Or radiant destruction...

people just dont want to accept the fact that perma blocking is no longer an easy win.

Once this broken CC system gets fixed, people will get used to this ability and move on.

I haven't permablocked since after my first 10 minutes in a closed beta Cyrodiil test weekend back in July... of 2013. If you don't have a comment about the topic, why post? The problem is it being unblockable period, including what any non new player does which is blocking selective times and attacks. You then either on a magicka build cannot break free generally and die, or on a durable stamina build your block drops from the fear and you are bursted down inside of the time it takes the game to register your break free because you now are taking full damage instead of 15-20% per hit. I see many comments being made about skill and "learn to play" issues in regard to a very obvious imbalance in how the NB fear skill works inside of the game mechanics, which strikes me as ironic, but not much in the way of why it isn't imbalanced compared to other cc's .

that was about the topic. I said broken CC system, and fear is a CC

you have not perma blocked? good for you, but a majority of this PvP community has.

Nope far from the majority or we wouldnt have 1.6 right now. You have to remember that this game doesnt have cool downs, and combat wise is not like any game. Some people dont like one trick pony builds. These people are the minority not the majority.

Endurance

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

It's the only CC in the game you cannot prevent in advance by blocking, and it's also the only aoe "soft" cc that does not break on damage. Templars can hit you with a ground target shards, but you are free if even so much as a DoT tick from them hits you. DK's can fossilize you, but as soon as you're hit you have a chance to react. Same deal with sorcerers and their rune prison. You also can block most cc's like these. However, if an NB fears you and you don't have enough stamina to CC break, you're done: they can unload damage on you as you run helplessly in a random direction. On magicka builds this is particularly nasty an issue as you already run on a tightrope to manage blocking important attacks.

If a nightblade with fear runs into you and you don't always maintain enough stamina for a CC break move, popping fear is essentially an automatic win for them. No other skill in the game is like this with no way to defend against it. The added debuffs were a great addition, but the more recent change to being unblockable just is outright on another level of power compared to every other CC move in the game, amounting to a stunlock.

riiiiiight and shields should be breakable too.

Code2501

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

The problem is it being unblockable period.

So now the argument is that Block is intended to make players immune to spells? By that logic should not blocking also prevent the blocker from casting any spells?

vichoi

The problem is sometimes you can't break free even with full stamina

WillhelmBlack

I think undead and WW should be immune to fear. I would recommend assigning interrupt to a MB, break free is easier and quicker.

Erock25

Fear and fossilize need a change. All the nb in here bringing up wards and heals and they don't even realize they have the most op pvp class in the game right now. Fear being blockable wouldn't even effect me and I still think a change is necessary. Fossilize is ridiculous because it's instant cast and it comes with a root. Be prepared to CC break and then roll dodge out of the root.

alakmir

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

YES so much this... or at least rebalance it somehow, you know right now the meta skills for a nightblade are fear -fear - fear - fear - fear- ambush - fear - fear - fear.

no but fear + other skills enough to kill noobs like u

alakmir

Olivierko wrote: »

Threads like this make me giggle.

Attorneyatlawl

Erock25 wrote: »

Fear and fossilize need a change. All the nb in here bringing up wards and heals and they don't even realize they have the most op pvp class in the game right now. Fear being blockable wouldn't even effect me and I still think a change is necessary. Fossilize is ridiculous because it's instant cast and it comes with a root. Be prepared to CC break and then roll dodge out of the root.

I agree with this. Also reminds me of the long, drawn out threads of people complaining Sorcs stunk and would stink in 1.6 so badly the class may as well be deleted where I argued they would be very well off in actuality. We all know that the complaints weren't true by now, and it is the same case on this issue too.