NB fear should be blockable

Rook_Master

The way Fear was balanced before, was that you could hold block during the animation.

In the 1.6 patch, that 'fix' was combined with an increase in the number of targets from 2 to 3, and voila, you get the current Fear-spamming meta we are seeing now.

Fear was balanced before because you could block for the duration. Now it's just silly broken.

Xexpo

C'mon guys .. you know fear is a little OP ,
there is little to no defense to it, I use it liberally when playing my NB because of this.
It is not difficult for me to near perma-stun players with fear.

@Soulac is correct in saying it is a great counter to perma-blockers. But it is a great counter to almost every build
and Akatosh's blessings to the magicka user who runs into the fear spamming NB (as noted in OP), they have almost no chance

I am not sure what the answer is to balancing it, it's not like it makes you immortal
but, at the same time it should not really be argued that it isn't one of the most powerful skills in pvp right now.
stronk level over 9000

idk

Fear in the game is not blockable though immovable from the heavy armor line at least used to work against it. I see no reason NB fear should be blockable when NPC is not and their is a defense against it.

Cinbri

DDuke wrote: »

Situations where fear can actually mean your death:

1. You are tanking multiple people and you aren't getting any outside heals/shields
2. You have very slow reaction time
3. You are out of stamina
   .

You forget most important part - you may die coz fear if 4. Lag monster lurking around. Also for some reason Fear is not a problem even for my magicka templar, maybe coz i use heavy attacks sometimes to restore stamina?! And i don't think Luminous Shards are worse than Fear (killed perma-block cheater a day ago with it), just my opinion as templar.

DDuke

Cinbri wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Situations where fear can actually mean your death:

1. You are tanking multiple people and you aren't getting any outside heals/shields
2. You have very slow reaction time
3. You are out of stamina
   .

You forget most important part - you may die coz fear if Lag monster lurking around. Also for some reason Fear is not a problem even for my magicka templar, maybe coz i use heavy attacks sometimes to restore stamina?!

Yes, I'm not a big fan of lag either. Should be fixed imo (and I wouldn't be sad if they increased TTK as well, as long as other aspects of the game such as shield spam & permablock were also balanced).

Gargragrond

Nah, it's fine to have some unblockable cc too, and it's not like blocking has ever been overly effective tactics against nbs with shadows constantly draining your stamina. What mostly bothers me is the unresponsiveness of cc-break (in general). Even if I have the stamina and break immediately, I usually eat at least 2-3 high damage attacks before I can do anything, any additional lag only makes it worse.
This seems to be the case with other cc as well, but other classes don't have comparable burst damage so it's not so much of a problem (unless facing multiple opponents) .

It would be enough (for me) if they made the cc-break a bit faster so you could regain your senses with fewer bruises. Right now the fear+burst mechanics pretty much forces me to wear whitestrakes to have any chance (it works reasonably well btw - survival against nbs went up 300%)

AltusVenifus

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

It's the only CC in the game you cannot prevent in advance by blocking, and it's also the only aoe "soft" cc that does not break on damage. Templars can hit you with a ground target shards, but you are free if even so much as a DoT tick from them hits you. DK's can fossilize you, but as soon as you're hit you have a chance to react. Same deal with sorcerers and their rune prison. You also can block most cc's like these. However, if an NB fears you and you don't have enough stamina to CC break, you're done: they can unload damage on you as you run helplessly in a random direction. On magicka builds this is particularly nasty an issue as you already run on a tightrope to manage blocking important attacks.

If a nightblade with fear runs into you and you don't always maintain enough stamina for a CC break move, popping fear is essentially an automatic win for them. No other skill in the game is like this with no way to defend against it. The added debuffs were a great addition, but the more recent change to being unblockable just is outright on another level of power compared to every other CC move in the game, amounting to a stunlock.

The most overpowered mechanic in the game is still block casting... more than dodgeroll or sheildstacking... I run a block casting sustain build and fear is the only offensive attack I "fear". Also you can use 15 sec ummovable pots as well as immovable brute. IMO they need to have more skills to balance viability to block casting.

washlov

best CC best BURST best ESCAPE

every NB have to be OP in PVP or it is a weak player

blocking while running away feared looks fair

Spangla

DDuke wrote: »

People keep bringing the duration & it not breaking on damage up.

Fact is, fear is broken in less than 0,2 seconds by any decent player. This is less than the GCD caster gets (1.3 seconds).

Situations where fear can actually mean your death:

1. You are tanking multiple people and you aren't getting any outside heals/shields
2. You have very slow reaction time
3. You are out of stamina

Let's reflect on these for a moment:

1. Do you really think you should be able to tank multiple people permanently all by your lonesome without them being able to do anything about it? Or even one person for that matter?
2. So, player skill shouldn't matter? Or does holding right mouse button & smashing head on keyboard constitute as skill now?
3. Running out of stamina should have no consequences? That sounds like dumbing down to me.

That said, let's see how you can actively work to avoid fear (you know, by becoming a better player):

1. Do not stand right next to the NB, fear has a short melee range (you can melee NB outside the fear range in fact).
2. Improve your reaction time, if you can break it within 1,3 seconds you can survive a single NB. You likely have to be faster than that if facing multiple opponents.
3. If you keep running out of stamina, here's my advise: kill NB before you run out of stamina (or make him run out of stamina), or play a permablock build with infinite stamina.
4. If all else fails: slot Immovable

Have a good day.

This

Spangla

sorc op fact

Lorkhan

Spangla wrote: »

sorc op fact

exactly

Rook_Master

If they just did a partial-rollback so you could block during Fear again it would be fine.

Lorkhan

delete

Lorkhan

i fight other nightblades all the time. they use fear against me all the time.
i see no problem. i just break free.

akray21

Divad Zarn wrote: »

Yeah, lets delete NB class completely.

I honestly think that this is the best option. All players who have a NB will have the charecter fully erased come next patch. That way sorcs and DKs will not be bothered by the pesky NB class.

krim

Right now fear is destroying anyone trying to play a tank/blocking build. If you have more than 3 people on you and get feared, even if you break it instantly you die. Fear has always been a counter pre 1.6 but what makes it exceptionally strong now is it makes you drop block. Add in also that you dont have the same ulti gen anymore tanks are pretty much useless, and instantly die the second you get feared.

1.6 claims to have tried to break up zergs but what it did was make them stronger and the only way to live. At least before you had tank builds that were possible with all classes. Who could charge in and disrupt a large group of enemies. Since im not dropping ulti every 5 seconds. Make it so i dont drop block, so i dont die instantly and have time to actually break out of fear.

akray21

krim wrote: »

Right now fear is destroying anyone trying to play a tank/blocking build. If you have more than 3 people on you and get feared, even if you break it instantly you die. Fear has always been a counter pre 1.6 but what makes it exceptionally strong now is it makes you drop block. Add in also that you dont have the same ulti gen anymore tanks are pretty much useless, and instantly die the second you get feared.

1.6 claims to have tried to break up zergs but what it did was make them stronger and the only way to live. At least before you had tank builds that were possible with all classes. Who could charge in a disrupt a large group of enemies. Since im not dropping ulti every 5 seconds. Make it so i dont drop block so i dont die instantly and have time to actually break out of fear.

No, just remove NB class

krim

akray21 wrote: »

krim wrote: »

Right now fear is destroying anyone trying to play a tank/blocking build. If you have more than 3 people on you and get feared, even if you break it instantly you die. Fear has always been a counter pre 1.6 but what makes it exceptionally strong now is it makes you drop block. Add in also that you dont have the same ulti gen anymore tanks are pretty much useless, and instantly die the second you get feared.

1.6 claims to have tried to break up zergs but what it did was make them stronger and the only way to live. At least before you had tank builds that were possible with all classes. Who could charge in a disrupt a large group of enemies. Since im not dropping ulti every 5 seconds. Make it so i dont drop block so i dont die instantly and have time to actually break out of fear.

No, just remove NB class

Not an option because i am a NB.

idk

Rook_Master wrote: »

If they just did a partial-rollback so you could block during Fear again it would be fine.

Fear was never intended to be blockable. All you have to do is see the NPC fear to see the truth. Keep it as it is. Works as intended. Works perfectly.

krim

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

If they just did a partial-rollback so you could block during Fear again it would be fine.

Fear was never intended to be blockable. All you have to do is see the NPC fear to see the truth. Keep it as it is. Works as intended. Works perfectly.

There has to be balance. Correct its not supposed to be blockable. I agree that making it blockable would make perma blockers to strong. But if losing control of your character for however amount of seconds the fear last while also dropping your block and now taking full dmg from everything is a bit much. There has to be a balance and we cant just outright destroy a persons build/play style. Even though 1.6 has done just that.

Vaerth

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

It's the only CC in the game you cannot prevent in advance by blocking, and it's also the only aoe "soft" cc that does not break on damage. Templars can hit you with a ground target shards, but you are free if even so much as a DoT tick from them hits you. DK's can fossilize you, but as soon as you're hit you have a chance to react. Same deal with sorcerers and their rune prison. You also can block most cc's like these. However, if an NB fears you and you don't have enough stamina to CC break, you're done: they can unload damage on you as you run helplessly in a random direction. On magicka builds this is particularly nasty an issue as you already run on a tightrope to manage blocking important attacks.

If a nightblade with fear runs into you and you don't always maintain enough stamina for a CC break move, popping fear is essentially an automatic win for them. No other skill in the game is like this with no way to defend against it. The added debuffs were a great addition, but the more recent change to being unblockable just is outright on another level of power compared to every other CC move in the game, amounting to a stunlock.

You want them to lose the only thing they have for PvP?

Sure, then remove Dragonblood from DKs and restoring light tree from templars.

Joy_Division

There are two issues that I have with fear have been brought up in this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/167991/dear-zos-your-cc-is-not-working/p1

• It does not seem to be granting immunity if the effect is not broken. Or at least consistently.
• It does seem to take longer than other CCs to break. One poster theorized this was an unintended consequence of them removing the ability to block through the effect.

As for the OP, I am of the opinion that fear was tolerable in 1.5 because the time to kill was not so ridiculously low. Sure, maybe the game needs ways to attack perma-blockers, but when you take down the ability to defend themselves, particularly a tank, it is almost instadeath in 1.6. Thus this means I have a bigger problem with how fear functions in the 1.6 environment than the skill itself.

Obscure

There's far too much imbalance in general to only target Fear.

Dragonknight needs to be addressed for class design (the melee specific class yet it is the one that has no reliable gap closer, coupled with nerfs to its survivability against ranged attackers, a DK is forced into 2hndr and/or 1hnd+Shield to be viable). Templar Radiant Destruction needs to be addressed for role balance and actual trade offs (when my healer is putting out well over 17k DPS AT RANGE AND healing the party, there's an effin' problem). Sorcerer needs to be addressed for class design (no stamina support in the class, and abusive "damage shield stack, burst, bolt away" rinse and repeat making a total mockery of any intended combat balance in PvP. Forcing a chase in EVERY fight against a Sorcerer removes my desire to fight them at all...yeah I can catch them, but damnit am I soooooo sick of needing to chase the ass holes down, bolt after bolt after bolt after effin' bolt).

The biggest issue I take with Fear has to do with how immunity against it is bugged, and after breaking it, will only make me immune to that person's CC's, though the other Nightblade they're with can Fear me again just fine. Being unblockably hard CC'ed is one thing, but in an ecosystem with instagib "Incapacitating strike + Executioner", it's a whole different level of "What ass hole thought this was balanced!?". Same goes for Fossilise + Crit Charge + Executioner and the Radiant Destruction + Radiant Destruction + Radiant Destruction + Guess what? RADIANT DESTRUCTION MOTHER ***!!

PvP is just a jumble of asinine " I win!" buttons and bull *** "I win!" combos. Skill based play is a laughable absurdity in ESO. I don't care how good you are, it's all a matter of who is better at abusing the mechanics, be it Fear abuse, Radiant Destruction abuse, Invasion + Talons abuse, unblockable CC + insta-gib abuse, shield stack + burst + bolt away abuse, and on and on and on and effin' on. All of PvP is a particularly aggravating experience in open field fighting, it's no wonder people zerg up and fight over keeps, everything else is a bunch of no-skill-reqiured-asshatery.

If your build isn't abusing the hell out of the mechanics it's a bad build for PvP. PERIOD.

tplink3r1

Soulac wrote: »

Every class got a block / dodge ignoring stun, the mechanic is not unique or only available for nightblades.

Thats not true.

cozmon3c_ESO

Fear needs a long animation or a cast time to add some skillful counter play like the other abilities in the avoid block category (petrify needs this too). if its designed for perma blockers then a cast time is not really an issue with hitting them as they are not moving, but right now fear is so powerful against EVERYONE. a NB can just fear from stealth or cloak if they want that opening with fear before their burst damage. that rediculous ambush fear combo everyone is doing right now that you cannot avoid needs to be toned down and this is how. NB is the best class for casting anything as you can cloak cast as well, bring some skill to this skilless skill.

Basically there needs to be some skillful counter play to fear and petrify and atm thats just not the case. (ps i broke my desk from unbreakable fear the other day, please fix this mechanic asap)

DDuke

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Fear needs a long animation or a cast time to add some skillful counter play like the other abilities in the avoid block category (petrify needs this too). if its designed for perma blockers then a cast time is not really an issue with hitting them as they are not moving, but right now fear is so powerful against EVERYONE. a NB can just fear from stealth or cloak if they want that opening with fear before their burst damage. that rediculous ambush fear combo everyone is doing right now that you cannot avoid needs to be toned down and this is how. NB is the best class for casting anything as you can cloak cast as well, bring some skill to this skilless skill.

Basically there needs to be some skillful counter play to fear and petrify and atm thats just not the case. (ps i broke my desk from unbreakable fear the other day, please fix this mechanic asap)

There is a skillful counterplay, it's called CC break.

If you can't react within 1,3 seconds (GCD the NB gets from casting fear), maybe you should rethink whether you're that skilled after all.

And cloak... Really, best class for casting anything because cloak?
Why don't you try a thing called "detection potion"?
Such a skillful play, hit a button & negate the only NB defensive skill for 43 seconds, after which you can drink it again to make the NB rage for another 43 seconds. Much skill, such wow.

Alternatively, you can a spam charge skill or DK whip (if you're a DK) repeatedly like a pro and prevent any NB from ever cloaking.

Also, cloak->fear is a terribad combo (you're better off using Concealed Weapon/Surprise Attack from cloak, even if target is blocking).

Please see my post on the previous page about how to play against fear, you might find it informative.


As for CC (Fear, Petrify, Templar Spear, doesn't matter) being unbreakable despite having stamina & trying to CC break: that is a bug (not fear specific one), and should absolutely be fixed.

Emma_Overload

Agree with the OP completely!

I just want to add that this is not just a PvP issue, but PvE as well. It's ridiculous that random no-name hedge wizards in Craglorn can roll you with Fear spells that can't be blocked or even absorbed by BoL. There are several OP dungeon boss mechanics that work this way, too, that should also be blockable for fairness' sake.

Mojomonkeyman

DDuke wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Fear needs a long animation or a cast time to add some skillful counter play like the other abilities in the avoid block category (petrify needs this too). if its designed for perma blockers then a cast time is not really an issue with hitting them as they are not moving, but right now fear is so powerful against EVERYONE. a NB can just fear from stealth or cloak if they want that opening with fear before their burst damage. that rediculous ambush fear combo everyone is doing right now that you cannot avoid needs to be toned down and this is how. NB is the best class for casting anything as you can cloak cast as well, bring some skill to this skilless skill.

Basically there needs to be some skillful counter play to fear and petrify and atm thats just not the case. (ps i broke my desk from unbreakable fear the other day, please fix this mechanic asap)

There is a skillful counterplay, it's called CC break.

If you can't react within 1,3 seconds (GCD the NB gets from casting fear), maybe you should rethink whether you're that skilled after all.

And cloak... Really, best class for casting anything because cloak?
Why don't you try a thing called "detection potion"?
Such a skillful play, hit a button & negate the only NB defensive skill for 43 seconds, after which you can drink it again to make the NB rage for another 43 seconds. Much skill, such wow.

Alternatively, you can a spam charge skill or DK whip (if you're a DK) repeatedly like a pro and prevent any NB from ever cloaking.

Also, cloak->fear is a terribad combo (you're better off using Concealed Weapon/Surprise Attack from cloak, even if target is blocking).

Please see my post on the previous page about how to play against fear, you might find it informative.


As for CC (Fear, Petrify, Templar Spear, doesn't matter) being unbreakable despite having stamina & trying to CC break: that is a bug (not fear specific one), and should absolutely be fixed.

Do you even realize that in the current state of the game breaking fear is bugged most of the time. I think several issues (lag, fear itself, break free anim, whatever) are playing a role in this.

Writing 20 lines about how unskilled people are who have legit complaints about the unresponsiveness of breaking fear in particular (for whatever reasons) and then putting a one liner below stating "bugs should be fixed of course" is a bit hypocritical. You imply l2p issues but demand to be taken serious with your complaints (there are plenty)... right...

In the current state of the game, taking all issues into account, fear is frustratingly strong and results very often in death, no matter how good I was at breaking it before the recently introduced unresponsiveness.

You always act patronizing with double standards completely ignoring that others might have equal or (omg) better capabilities and just describe what they experience?!

You want to be taken serious, please show similar respect to others, thanks.

DDuke

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Fear needs a long animation or a cast time to add some skillful counter play like the other abilities in the avoid block category (petrify needs this too). if its designed for perma blockers then a cast time is not really an issue with hitting them as they are not moving, but right now fear is so powerful against EVERYONE. a NB can just fear from stealth or cloak if they want that opening with fear before their burst damage. that rediculous ambush fear combo everyone is doing right now that you cannot avoid needs to be toned down and this is how. NB is the best class for casting anything as you can cloak cast as well, bring some skill to this skilless skill.

Basically there needs to be some skillful counter play to fear and petrify and atm thats just not the case. (ps i broke my desk from unbreakable fear the other day, please fix this mechanic asap)

There is a skillful counterplay, it's called CC break.

If you can't react within 1,3 seconds (GCD the NB gets from casting fear), maybe you should rethink whether you're that skilled after all.

And cloak... Really, best class for casting anything because cloak?
Why don't you try a thing called "detection potion"?
Such a skillful play, hit a button & negate the only NB defensive skill for 43 seconds, after which you can drink it again to make the NB rage for another 43 seconds. Much skill, such wow.

Alternatively, you can a spam charge skill or DK whip (if you're a DK) repeatedly like a pro and prevent any NB from ever cloaking.

Also, cloak->fear is a terribad combo (you're better off using Concealed Weapon/Surprise Attack from cloak, even if target is blocking).

Please see my post on the previous page about how to play against fear, you might find it informative.


As for CC (Fear, Petrify, Templar Spear, doesn't matter) being unbreakable despite having stamina & trying to CC break: that is a bug (not fear specific one), and should absolutely be fixed.

Do you even realize that in the current state of the game breaking fear is bugged most of the time. I think several issues (lag, fear itself, break free anim, whatever) are playing a role in this.

Writing 20 lines about how unskilled people are who have legit complaints about the unresponsiveness of breaking fear in particular (for whatever reasons) and then putting a one liner below stating "bugs should be fixed of course" is a bit hypocritical. You imply l2p issues but demand to be taken serious with your complaints (there are plenty)... right...

In the current state of the game, taking all issues into account, fear is frustratingly strong and results very often in death, no matter how good I was at breaking it before the recently introduced unresponsiveness.

You always act patronizing with double standards completely ignoring that others might have equal or (omg) better capabilities and just describe what they experience?!

You want to be taken serious, please show similar respect to others, thanks.

So there is a bug involving unresponsiveness? That should be fixed, simple as that.

An unbreakable fear will kill you just as easily as any other unbreakable CC.

Personally, I experience around one or two of those every 5-6 hour period I play in Cyrodiil, and not once has it been fear. In fact, Petrify has been the one skill that has caused most unbreakable CCs for me.
Does this mean I should start crying how Petrify is OP and should be nerfed? No, of course not. I realize there is an annoying underlying bug causing CC sometimes to become unbreakable, and that bug has actually been around since beta if I recall correctly.

If there is a bug, of course they should fix it and it isn't a l2p issue in that case, it's simply bad luck.

You do not fix the bug by changing one of the many skills affected by the bug, that much should be obvious.

krim

Of course your not going to see a problem unless you try to tank a group of enemies. It is much more manageable and easy to deal with in a 1v1 scenario. But the moment you try to rush in a large group of enemies you instantly get feared and insta death. Before you say oh but do you think you should be able to tank 10 people.. Well yeah thats what my build allows me to do. I dont burst i tank but i guess people dont like that so R.I.P tanks in eso.