NB fear should be blockable

Attorneyatlawl

DDuke wrote: »

People keep bringing the duration & it not breaking on damage up.

Fact is, fear is broken in less than 0,2 seconds by any decent player. This is less than the GCD caster gets (1.3 seconds).

Situations where fear can actually mean your death:

1. You are tanking multiple people and you aren't getting any outside heals/shields
2. You have very slow reaction time
3. You are out of stamina

Let's reflect on these for a moment:

1. Do you really think you should be able to tank multiple people permanently all by your lonesome without them being able to do anything about it? Or even one person for that matter?
2. So, player skill shouldn't matter? Or does holding right mouse button & smashing head on keyboard constitute as skill now?
3. Running out of stamina should have no consequences? That sounds like dumbing down to me.

That said, let's see how you can actively work to avoid fear (you know, by becoming a better player):

1. Do not stand right next to the NB, fear has a short melee range (you can melee NB outside the fear range in fact).
2. Improve your reaction time, if you can break it within 1,3 seconds you can survive a single NB. You likely have to be faster than that if facing multiple opponents.
3. If you keep running out of stamina, here's my advise: kill NB before you run out of stamina (or make him run out of stamina), or play a permablock build with infinite stamina.
4. If all else fails: slot Immovable

Have a good day.

That's a great post on a general basis, but the long and the short of it is the nightblade fear simply is not balanced remotely with other crowd control skills in the game. You can philosophize on whether a skilled 1vX player can or should be winning against people all you want, and I am very much on the side of skill over numbers. However, as above... while on a nightblade it may be fun to use, and I tried it a little even last night myself, the current nightblade fear skill is just completely out of line with every other ability's capabilities in ESO. Any other class-related issues should be handled, on any class, by balancing, not by leaving an overpowered piece to compensate for another underpowered piece. In the case of the Nightblade, an easy spot to swap in to fill a gap in the class's skill layout would be Dark Path, just as back in beta the Sorcerer had Repulse but no Crystal Shard, which replaced Repulse and provided it with a solid direct damage tool it previously had lacked. Dark Path is a prime candidate for a replacement .

Also, being able to CC break immediately and not suffer the longer animation is not unique to nightblade fear and is true across the board, including even Wrecking Blow where you won't be unable to act if you break its stun immediately before going up in the air (you can then cast even though you're moving from it). I don't think the point you're making about CC break in general has any bearing on how abnormally designed the fear is on Nightblades at this time.

Attorneyatlawl

krim wrote: »

Of course your not going to see a problem unless you try to tank a group of enemies. It is much more manageable and easy to deal with in a 1v1 scenario. But the moment you try to rush in a large group of enemies you instantly get feared and insta death. Before you say oh but do you think you should be able to tank 10 people.. Well yeah thats what my build allows me to do. I dont burst i tank but i guess people dont like that so R.I.P tanks in eso.

Glass cannons R' us. Max your damage and carry no hitpoints, or "you're doing it wrong" is the current group opinion by and large . Healers, tanks, zerg/bunker-busting builds, and dps-healers are shunned, despite being more effective.

xaraan

I agree that fear is overpowered, even though I love using it on my Nightblades. It's not feasable to use the pots or skill against it as they don't last long enough really. It's much more heavily weighted for use against magicka builds as they don't have the power to repeatedly stun break like a stam build does. And it goes through block - I can block every other CC in the game except this one.

That being said, it's not so much that it's bad on a 1v1, it's when you are fighting multiple people, using more stamina, getting feared by more than NB constantly so that you are having to use 2/3 of your stam pool if you aren't a stam build to break out every few moments. You can't really "not be beside" a character that can teleport strike (or just use weapon charges), so positioning isn't really a solution most times. But, the class doesn't have some of the same tools every other class has, so it's a useful skill to give them some balance.

Personally, I think that fear should have a cool down on when it can effect the same character again for like 30 seconds. It's an illusion, once you've been fooled/broken out of it once, you shouldn't be able to get feared 5 seconds later by the same illusion IMO. Then NBs will still have it as a tool to change a fight here and there, or get people to drop a block for a finisher, or spread out for an escape, but it won't be as much of an instaspam win button.

Rust_in_Peace

No.

blabafat

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Cody

in exchange i want a class based self heal or class based damage shield

krim

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

Attorneyatlawl

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

This. There's no management to do when you only can use it once or twice tops on a magicka-based character. Burn it once and when it happens again (which it inevitably does in a non-1on1 fight very quickly) you're usually out of luck, not even being able to block it if you see it looking like someone's coming in to do it with the bit of stamina left since it goes through it anyways. On a tank-type character, you lose your block immediately and since usually if you're tanky you're aiming to be focus-fired in the first place, you die in a split-second as you're defenseless for a second regardless of what you do. @blabafat, it's hard to "qq" about counters to a "poster's build" when they don't run just one build on one character .

Cody wrote: »

in exchange i want a class based self heal or class based damage shield

Already covered that idea when discussing dark path and the replacement of repulse on sorcs with crystal shard during beta .

xaraan wrote: »

I agree that fear is overpowered, even though I love using it on my Nightblades. It's not feasable to use the pots or skill against it as they don't last long enough really. It's much more heavily weighted for use against magicka builds as they don't have the power to repeatedly stun break like a stam build does. And it goes through block - I can block every other CC in the game except this one.

That being said, it's not so much that it's bad on a 1v1, it's when you are fighting multiple people, using more stamina, getting feared by more than NB constantly so that you are having to use 2/3 of your stam pool if you aren't a stam build to break out every few moments. You can't really "not be beside" a character that can teleport strike (or just use weapon charges), so positioning isn't really a solution most times. But, the class doesn't have some of the same tools every other class has, so it's a useful skill to give them some balance.

Personally, I think that fear should have a cool down on when it can effect the same character again for like 30 seconds. It's an illusion, once you've been fooled/broken out of it once, you shouldn't be able to get feared 5 seconds later by the same illusion IMO. Then NBs will still have it as a tool to change a fight here and there, or get people to drop a block for a finisher, or spread out for an escape, but it won't be as much of an instaspam win button.

Well said.

krim

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

This. There's no management to do when you only can use it once or twice tops on a magicka-based character. Burn it once and when it happens again (which it inevitably does in a non-1on1 fight very quickly) you're usually out of luck, not even being able to block it if you see it looking like someone's coming in to do it with the bit of stamina left since it goes through it anyways. On a tank-type character, you lose your block immediately and since usually if you're tanky you're aiming to be focus-fired in the first place, you die in a split-second as you're defenseless for a second regardless of what you do. @blabafat, it's hard to "qq" about counters to a "poster's build" when they don't run just one build on one character .

Thing is in the build im running now i have the resource management under control. Its the bases of any tank is resource management. My build is way different then what it was pre 1.6 but its always been about resource management. My points still stand there needs to be some love for tanks. 1.6 nerfed us hella hard.

DDuke

xaraan wrote: »

I agree that fear is overpowered, even though I love using it on my Nightblades. It's not feasable to use the pots or skill against it as they don't last long enough really. It's much more heavily weighted for use against magicka builds as they don't have the power to repeatedly stun break like a stam build does. And it goes through block - I can block every other CC in the game except this one.

That being said, it's not so much that it's bad on a 1v1, it's when you are fighting multiple people, using more stamina, getting feared by more than NB constantly so that you are having to use 2/3 of your stam pool if you aren't a stam build to break out every few moments. You can't really "not be beside" a character that can teleport strike (or just use weapon charges), so positioning isn't really a solution most times. But, the class doesn't have some of the same tools every other class has, so it's a useful skill to give them some balance.

Personally, I think that fear should have a cool down on when it can effect the same character again for like 30 seconds. It's an illusion, once you've been fooled/broken out of it once, you shouldn't be able to get feared 5 seconds later by the same illusion IMO. Then NBs will still have it as a tool to change a fight here and there, or get people to drop a block for a finisher, or spread out for an escape, but it won't be as much of an instaspam win button.

If you give fear a 30 second cooldown, then it should be impossible to CC break as well (like any traditional CC with cooldown in other MMOs).

I'd be fine with that, and people who complain about fear would be fine with that since they weren't CC breaking it in the first place (that's why they're complaining).
They'd then move on to complain about the next unblockable CC that kills them (yes, there are more than just Mass Hysteria; you can't block Petrify, Agony, Rune Prison, Templar spears, WW fear and some other skills I've forgotten).

It's a win-win.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

People keep bringing the duration & it not breaking on damage up.

Fact is, fear is broken in less than 0,2 seconds by any decent player. This is less than the GCD caster gets (1.3 seconds).

Situations where fear can actually mean your death:

1. You are tanking multiple people and you aren't getting any outside heals/shields
2. You have very slow reaction time
3. You are out of stamina

Let's reflect on these for a moment:

1. Do you really think you should be able to tank multiple people permanently all by your lonesome without them being able to do anything about it? Or even one person for that matter?
2. So, player skill shouldn't matter? Or does holding right mouse button & smashing head on keyboard constitute as skill now?
3. Running out of stamina should have no consequences? That sounds like dumbing down to me.

That said, let's see how you can actively work to avoid fear (you know, by becoming a better player):

1. Do not stand right next to the NB, fear has a short melee range (you can melee NB outside the fear range in fact).
2. Improve your reaction time, if you can break it within 1,3 seconds you can survive a single NB. You likely have to be faster than that if facing multiple opponents.
3. If you keep running out of stamina, here's my advise: kill NB before you run out of stamina (or make him run out of stamina), or play a permablock build with infinite stamina.
4. If all else fails: slot Immovable

Have a good day.

That's a great post on a general basis, but the long and the short of it is the nightblade fear simply is not balanced remotely with other crowd control skills in the game. You can philosophize on whether a skilled 1vX player can or should be winning against people all you want, and I am very much on the side of skill over numbers. However, as above... while on a nightblade it may be fun to use, and I tried it a little even last night myself, the current nightblade fear skill is just completely out of line with every other ability's capabilities in ESO. Any other class-related issues should be handled, on any class, by balancing, not by leaving an overpowered piece to compensate for another underpowered piece. In the case of the Nightblade, an easy spot to swap in to fill a gap in the class's skill layout would be Dark Path, just as back in beta the Sorcerer had Repulse but no Crystal Shard, which replaced Repulse and provided it with a solid direct damage tool it previously had lacked. Dark Path is a prime candidate for a replacement .

Also, being able to CC break immediately and not suffer the longer animation is not unique to nightblade fear and is true across the board, including even Wrecking Blow where you won't be unable to act if you break its stun immediately before going up in the air (you can then cast even though you're moving from it). I don't think the point you're making about CC break in general has any bearing on how abnormally designed the fear is on Nightblades at this time.

I like how you argue how it is so completely out of line with other abilities. You state something, but do not follow up with logic & reasoning.

I've provided examples of how to deal with Mass Hysteria, you can ignore them or take advice & try some of them out, up to you.

Your turn: I'd like you to give me similar examples of how to deal with someone in permablock build holding right mouse button & smashing face on keyboard accidentally hitting a heal button every now & then (remember: you want to nerf the only ability available to NB that goes through permablock).

krim

DDuke wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I agree that fear is overpowered, even though I love using it on my Nightblades. It's not feasable to use the pots or skill against it as they don't last long enough really. It's much more heavily weighted for use against magicka builds as they don't have the power to repeatedly stun break like a stam build does. And it goes through block - I can block every other CC in the game except this one.

That being said, it's not so much that it's bad on a 1v1, it's when you are fighting multiple people, using more stamina, getting feared by more than NB constantly so that you are having to use 2/3 of your stam pool if you aren't a stam build to break out every few moments. You can't really "not be beside" a character that can teleport strike (or just use weapon charges), so positioning isn't really a solution most times. But, the class doesn't have some of the same tools every other class has, so it's a useful skill to give them some balance.

Personally, I think that fear should have a cool down on when it can effect the same character again for like 30 seconds. It's an illusion, once you've been fooled/broken out of it once, you shouldn't be able to get feared 5 seconds later by the same illusion IMO. Then NBs will still have it as a tool to change a fight here and there, or get people to drop a block for a finisher, or spread out for an escape, but it won't be as much of an instaspam win button.

If you give fear a 30 second cooldown, then it should be impossible to CC break as well (like any traditional CC with cooldown in other MMOs).

I'd be fine with that, and people who complain about fear would be fine with that since they weren't CC breaking it in the first place (that's why they're complaining).
They'd then move on to complain about the next unblockable CC that kills them (yes, there are more than just Mass Hysteria).

It's a win-win.

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

People keep bringing the duration & it not breaking on damage up.

Fact is, fear is broken in less than 0,2 seconds by any decent player. This is less than the GCD caster gets (1.3 seconds).

Situations where fear can actually mean your death:

1. You are tanking multiple people and you aren't getting any outside heals/shields
2. You have very slow reaction time
3. You are out of stamina

Let's reflect on these for a moment:

1. Do you really think you should be able to tank multiple people permanently all by your lonesome without them being able to do anything about it? Or even one person for that matter?
2. So, player skill shouldn't matter? Or does holding right mouse button & smashing head on keyboard constitute as skill now?
3. Running out of stamina should have no consequences? That sounds like dumbing down to me.

That said, let's see how you can actively work to avoid fear (you know, by becoming a better player):

1. Do not stand right next to the NB, fear has a short melee range (you can melee NB outside the fear range in fact).
2. Improve your reaction time, if you can break it within 1,3 seconds you can survive a single NB. You likely have to be faster than that if facing multiple opponents.
3. If you keep running out of stamina, here's my advise: kill NB before you run out of stamina (or make him run out of stamina), or play a permablock build with infinite stamina.
4. If all else fails: slot Immovable

Have a good day.

That's a great post on a general basis, but the long and the short of it is the nightblade fear simply is not balanced remotely with other crowd control skills in the game. You can philosophize on whether a skilled 1vX player can or should be winning against people all you want, and I am very much on the side of skill over numbers. However, as above... while on a nightblade it may be fun to use, and I tried it a little even last night myself, the current nightblade fear skill is just completely out of line with every other ability's capabilities in ESO. Any other class-related issues should be handled, on any class, by balancing, not by leaving an overpowered piece to compensate for another underpowered piece. In the case of the Nightblade, an easy spot to swap in to fill a gap in the class's skill layout would be Dark Path, just as back in beta the Sorcerer had Repulse but no Crystal Shard, which replaced Repulse and provided it with a solid direct damage tool it previously had lacked. Dark Path is a prime candidate for a replacement .

Also, being able to CC break immediately and not suffer the longer animation is not unique to nightblade fear and is true across the board, including even Wrecking Blow where you won't be unable to act if you break its stun immediately before going up in the air (you can then cast even though you're moving from it). I don't think the point you're making about CC break in general has any bearing on how abnormally designed the fear is on Nightblades at this time.

I like how you argue how it is so completely out of line with other abilities. You state something, but do not follow up with logic & reasoning.

I've provided examples of how to deal with Mass Hysteria, you can ignore them or take advice & try some of them out, up to you.

Your turn: I'd like you to give me similar examples of how to deal with someone in permablock build holding right mouse button & smashing face on keyboard accidentally hitting a heal button every now & then (remember: you want to nerf the only ability available to NB that goes through permablock).

Are you skipping all my posts?

DDuke

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

A couple of options:

A ) Have insane reaction time to break CC before bursted down by multiple opponents (yes, requires significantly above average reaction speed when focused on by more than the one NB casting fear)
B ) Dodge roll after getting ambushed & stay further than 6m away from NBs. They'll waste all their magicka fearing thin air.
C ) Use Immovable. It's kind of what this skill is designed for.

krim

DDuke wrote: »

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

A couple of options:

A ) Have insane reaction time to break CC before bursted down by multiple opponents.
B ) Dodge roll after getting ambushed & stay further than 6m away from NBs. They'll waste all their magicka fearing thin air.
C ) Use Immovable. It's kind of what this skill is designed for.

A) There is no reaction time to 10 people beating on you.
B ) I'm a tank
C) I do use Immovable and try to keep it up 100% but it doesnt seem to work 100% of the time. (I cast it every 5 seconds)

I think you still think this is about a 1v1 and now i see you dont quite get the situation im in.

DDuke

krim wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

A couple of options:

A ) Have insane reaction time to break CC before bursted down by multiple opponents.
B ) Dodge roll after getting ambushed & stay further than 6m away from NBs. They'll waste all their magicka fearing thin air.
C ) Use Immovable. It's kind of what this skill is designed for.

A) There is no reaction time to 10 people beating on you.
B ) I'm a tank
C) I do use Immovable and try to keep it up 100% but it doesnt seem to work 100% of the time. (I cast it every 5 seconds)

I think you still think this is about a 1v1 and now i see you dont quite get the situation im in.

So there is a bug with Immovable? Interesting.
Maybe this bug should be fixed then, instead of complaining about Mass Hysteria?


And I do perfectly get the situation you're in, I very often run into XvX fights & decide to fear the tanks. Very often I come across skilled players that break it in <0,1 seconds and keep on tanking 10 people.

In fact, I could post some video footage of such fights, me as the NB fearing these tanks.

A picture is worth a thousand words they say, a video should be worth a lot more then.

krim

DDuke wrote: »

krim wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

A couple of options:

A ) Have insane reaction time to break CC before bursted down by multiple opponents.
B ) Dodge roll after getting ambushed & stay further than 6m away from NBs. They'll waste all their magicka fearing thin air.
C ) Use Immovable. It's kind of what this skill is designed for.

A) There is no reaction time to 10 people beating on you.
B ) I'm a tank
C) I do use Immovable and try to keep it up 100% but it doesnt seem to work 100% of the time. (I cast it every 5 seconds)

I think you still think this is about a 1v1 and now i see you dont quite get the situation im in.

So there is a bug with Immovable? Interesting.
Maybe this bug should be fixed then, instead of complaining about Mass Hysteria?


And I do perfectly get the situation you're in, I very often run into XvX fights & decide to fear the tanks. Very often I come across skilled players that break it in <0,1 seconds and keep on tanking 10 people.

In fact, I could post some video footage of such fights, me as the NB fearing these tanks.

A picture is worth a thousand words they say, a video should be worth a lot more then.

Ok plz do show me these videos so i can learn something.

Cody

krim wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

A couple of options:

A ) Have insane reaction time to break CC before bursted down by multiple opponents.
B ) Dodge roll after getting ambushed & stay further than 6m away from NBs. They'll waste all their magicka fearing thin air.
C ) Use Immovable. It's kind of what this skill is designed for.

A) There is no reaction time to 10 people beating on you.
B ) I'm a tank
C) I do use Immovable and try to keep it up 100% but it doesnt seem to work 100% of the time. (I cast it every 5 seconds)

I think you still think this is about a 1v1 and now i see you dont quite get the situation im in.

i remember when one DK could kill 20 people solo....

good times:)

Attorneyatlawl

krim wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

This. There's no management to do when you only can use it once or twice tops on a magicka-based character. Burn it once and when it happens again (which it inevitably does in a non-1on1 fight very quickly) you're usually out of luck, not even being able to block it if you see it looking like someone's coming in to do it with the bit of stamina left since it goes through it anyways. On a tank-type character, you lose your block immediately and since usually if you're tanky you're aiming to be focus-fired in the first place, you die in a split-second as you're defenseless for a second regardless of what you do. @blabafat, it's hard to "qq" about counters to a "poster's build" when they don't run just one build on one character .

Thing is in the build im running now i have the resource management under control. Its the bases of any tank is resource management. My build is way different then what it was pre 1.6 but its always been about resource management. My points still stand there needs to be some love for tanks. 1.6 nerfed us hella hard.

I play a lot of tank-type setups on my Dragonknight, too... but the fear going through block just way overdoes the strength that ability should have. On him it doesn't have much of anything to do with resource management, but on my magicka sorc for example it's a killer simply from that perspective.

krim

Cody wrote: »

krim wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

A couple of options:

A ) Have insane reaction time to break CC before bursted down by multiple opponents.
B ) Dodge roll after getting ambushed & stay further than 6m away from NBs. They'll waste all their magicka fearing thin air.
C ) Use Immovable. It's kind of what this skill is designed for.

A) There is no reaction time to 10 people beating on you.
B ) I'm a tank
C) I do use Immovable and try to keep it up 100% but it doesnt seem to work 100% of the time. (I cast it every 5 seconds)

I think you still think this is about a 1v1 and now i see you dont quite get the situation im in.

i remember when one DK could kill 20 people solo....

good times:)

Do you have a video of this also?

blabafat

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

This. There's no management to do when you only can use it once or twice tops on a magicka-based character. Burn it once and when it happens again (which it inevitably does in a non-1on1 fight very quickly) you're usually out of luck, not even being able to block it if you see it looking like someone's coming in to do it with the bit of stamina left since it goes through it anyways. On a tank-type character, you lose your block immediately and since usually if you're tanky you're aiming to be focus-fired in the first place, you die in a split-second as you're defenseless for a second regardless of what you do. @blabafat, it's hard to "qq" about counters to a "poster's build" when they don't run just one build on one character .



.

I was not specifying you, or anyone in particular.

I'm saying that the reason Zenimax over-nerfs things to the ground is because a some people make forum posts asking for changes, which then attract all the other people who want a change to a skill too. Then, the skill gets nerfed, when it should not be nerfed, at least as much as Zenimax nerfs things.

Champion point passives can reduce the duration of fear.

Like I said, stamina management(Arena, Recovery, Tumbling, Etc.) will allow you to break cc whenever.

No disrespect was intended, even if it seemed that way.

Honfold

krim wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

krim wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

A couple of options:

A ) Have insane reaction time to break CC before bursted down by multiple opponents.
B ) Dodge roll after getting ambushed & stay further than 6m away from NBs. They'll waste all their magicka fearing thin air.
C ) Use Immovable. It's kind of what this skill is designed for.

A) There is no reaction time to 10 people beating on you.
B ) I'm a tank
C) I do use Immovable and try to keep it up 100% but it doesnt seem to work 100% of the time. (I cast it every 5 seconds)

I think you still think this is about a 1v1 and now i see you dont quite get the situation im in.

i remember when one DK could kill 20 people solo....

good times:)

Do you have a video of this also?

He is probably referring to something like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cfy_z4DQ3xg

Obscure

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

krim wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

This. There's no management to do when you only can use it once or twice tops on a magicka-based character. Burn it once and when it happens again (which it inevitably does in a non-1on1 fight very quickly) you're usually out of luck, not even being able to block it if you see it looking like someone's coming in to do it with the bit of stamina left since it goes through it anyways. On a tank-type character, you lose your block immediately and since usually if you're tanky you're aiming to be focus-fired in the first place, you die in a split-second as you're defenseless for a second regardless of what you do. @blabafat, it's hard to "qq" about counters to a "poster's build" when they don't run just one build on one character .

Thing is in the build im running now i have the resource management under control. Its the bases of any tank is resource management. My build is way different then what it was pre 1.6 but its always been about resource management. My points still stand there needs to be some love for tanks. 1.6 nerfed us hella hard.

I play a lot of tank-type setups on my Dragonknight, too... but the fear going through block just way overdoes the strength that ability should have. On him it doesn't have much of anything to do with resource management, but on my magicka sorc for example it's a killer simply from that perspective.

Let's be intellectually honest here. Fear rarely gets the kill, it's the insta-gib immediately after while your breaking and can't block that does. I'm fine with unblockable CC's, I'm fine with insta-gib if you don't defend yourself, I'm way not OK with them both being in the same game...in the same build...

...then again I'm also sick of effin' Radiant Destruction spam, "Press Here Until Win" is just stupid...then there's annoying Sorcs that will stack shield buffs, bolt in, burst, and bolt (and bolt and bolt ad infinitum) away...or the Invasion + Talon spam (you'd think people would be tired of doing it since before open beta) Dragonknights...

...cuz that's what players enjoy... being annoyed by PvP until they just say "*** it, I'm going to just go get Dolmen siege, sit on a mother *** wall, and shoot anything that moves because these skills and class options are a waste of time unless I abuse the *** out of the game mechanics.", only to eventually get bored with the whole damn thing and go play PvE with their " meta Templar" healer who matches the party's top DPS while also healing the party and off-tanking for short periods of time, just to rub it in that ZOS gives no damns about balance.

krim

@blabafat
What nerfs are you talking about?

Nivzruo_ESO

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

It's the only CC in the game you cannot prevent in advance by blocking, and it's also the only aoe "soft" cc that does not break on damage. Templars can hit you with a ground target shards, but you are free if even so much as a DoT tick from them hits you. DK's can fossilize you, but as soon as you're hit you have a chance to react. Same deal with sorcerers and their rune prison. You also can block most cc's like these. However, if an NB fears you and you don't have enough stamina to CC break, you're done: they can unload damage on you as you run helplessly in a random direction. On magicka builds this is particularly nasty an issue as you already run on a tightrope to manage blocking important attacks.

If a nightblade with fear runs into you and you don't always maintain enough stamina for a CC break move, popping fear is essentially an automatic win for them. No other skill in the game is like this with no way to defend against it. The added debuffs were a great addition, but the more recent change to being unblockable just is outright on another level of power compared to every other CC move in the game, amounting to a stunlock.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

krim

Honfold wrote: »

krim wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

krim wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

A couple of options:

A ) Have insane reaction time to break CC before bursted down by multiple opponents.
B ) Dodge roll after getting ambushed & stay further than 6m away from NBs. They'll waste all their magicka fearing thin air.
C ) Use Immovable. It's kind of what this skill is designed for.

A) There is no reaction time to 10 people beating on you.
B ) I'm a tank
C) I do use Immovable and try to keep it up 100% but it doesnt seem to work 100% of the time. (I cast it every 5 seconds)

I think you still think this is about a 1v1 and now i see you dont quite get the situation im in.

i remember when one DK could kill 20 people solo....

good times:)

Do you have a video of this also?

He is probably referring to something like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cfy_z4DQ3xg

Can we get any videos like this from vr14?

blabafat

krim wrote: »

@blabafat
What nerfs are you talking about?

Jabs- cc added, which was a bigger nerf than everyone thought. I, as well as others, would like to see the CC removed.
Dragon wings- I understand this skill was a bit too strong
Streak- cc removed
All i can think of

Some skills that were nerfed had it coming though

Spangla

krim wrote: »

Right now fear is destroying anyone trying to play a tank/blocking build. If you have more than 3 people on you and get feared, even if you break it instantly you die. Fear has always been a counter pre 1.6 but what makes it exceptionally strong now is it makes you drop block. Add in also that you dont have the same ulti gen anymore tanks are pretty much useless, and instantly die the second you get feared.

1.6 claims to have tried to break up zergs but what it did was make them stronger and the only way to live. At least before you had tank builds that were possible with all classes. Who could charge in and disrupt a large group of enemies. Since im not dropping ulti every 5 seconds. Make it so i dont drop block, so i dont die instantly and have time to actually break out of fear.

I play a sap tank - it isnt destroying anything. Your talking rubbish fact

If you are tanking 30 it is a problem. And it should be obviously.

If you are tanking 5 it is no problem, l2p.

The problem is dks are used to facerolling nb's with ease. Now they have to L2P

Morvul

DDuke wrote: »

Fact is, fear is broken in less than 0,2 seconds by any decent player.

I usually have a Ping of about 110 to 150. That means, even if I had ZERO reaction time it would take me almost as long as your proposed reaction time to start breaking free (simply because the signal from the server to my client telling me I'm feared needs time, and the signal from my client to the server asking to break free needs time as well).
Now, break free itself is NOT instant. I never measured how long the break free animation lasts, but I would estimate it at roughtly half a second bevor my character becoms responsive again.
Now add to that my actuall reaction time (0.2 on a very, very good day maybe) which leaves us at 150 + 500 + 200 = 850 miliseconds to break free. But that is in a perfectly optimal scenario.
Yes, that is still shorter then the global cooldown, and if everything works perfectly I have control of my character back bevor the NB can do another skill... Things rarely work perfectly in my experience, both as a "victim" as well as a user of CC.
When I knock enemies down, I can in 90%+ of cases hit them with another attack bevor they can break free. That includes highly capable oponents like Lhorion (not that it helped my win the fight, mind you )

DDuke wrote: »

That said, let's see how you can actively work to avoid fear (you know, by becoming a better player):

1. Do not stand right next to the NB, fear has a short melee range (you can melee NB outside the fear range in fact).
   [
2. If all else fails: slot Immovable

How do I stay out of fear range, when ambush-fear is the standard combo?
(and yes, we are now back to the previous discussion about possible reaction times).
as for Immovable: simply not workable on a magicka build... where is the stamina to keep it up supposed to come from?

All that said: I agree with you that the biggest problems with fear (and other CCs) stem from bugs and game-responsiveness issues - not the skilldesign per se.

Code2501

Yes lets make sure people can be permanently immune to CC by simply holding a button and pretend there are no viable counters. Its not like NB isn't already OP enough with its burst heals, damage shields, and the awesomely reliable cloak.

For those unable to interpret the bluntest of sarcasm, yes that was sarcasm.

What I particularly like about this thread is that the suggestion is such that rather than give the NB anything that might actually work as intended or be useful in any way, their suggestion would leave the NB with another useless CC skill
(cough-agony-cough) and even less survivability then before. Pure gold!

Sharee

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

the current nightblade fear skill is just completely out of line with every other ability's capabilities in ESO.

Kinda like bolt escape, eh? Or reflective scale. Or radiant destruction...

Vaerth

https://youtu.be/0cgbZqR2AGI