NB fear should be blockable

Jaerlach

Erock25 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Fear and fossilize need a change. All the nb in here bringing up wards and heals and they don't even realize they have the most op pvp class in the game right now. Fear being blockable wouldn't even effect me and I still think a change is necessary. Fossilize is ridiculous because it's instant cast and it comes with a root. Be prepared to CC break and then roll dodge out of the root.

I agree with this. Also reminds me of the long, drawn out threads of people complaining Sorcs stunk and would stink in 1.6 so badly the class may as well be deleted where I argued they would be very well off in actuality. We all know that the complaints weren't true by now, and it is the same case on this issue too.

Not to take your thread off topic, but you started it, so here it goes. I've seen you pop into a few threads now saying, 'See I told you so about Sorc being strong,' but Sorc is only known as strong in PVP and 95%+ of the pre1.6 Sorc QQ was directed at PVE. I didn't see anyone claiming Sorc would be weak in PVP on the PTS forums and in fact most suggestions had a caveat that they may be hard to implement without making Sorc too strong in PVP. Keep patting yourself on the back though for some odd reason. Sorc PVE DPS is still low compared to other classes as far as I am concerned. Sorc PVE utility is also low. I'm surprised you don't remember with all the PTS commenting you did that literally all of the complaints were PVE related.

Also, while I do think Sorc IS strong in PVP, I believe the pendulum is already swinging away from them as people realize the power of stam builds and dodge roll.

Sorc pve dps is not low. They are excellent trials dps.

You're just not doing it right


Source: have sorc, did sanctum hardmode speedrun last night with multiple sorcs.


The effective builds are not well publicized, but they definitely exist.

Erock25

Jaerlach wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Fear and fossilize need a change. All the nb in here bringing up wards and heals and they don't even realize they have the most op pvp class in the game right now. Fear being blockable wouldn't even effect me and I still think a change is necessary. Fossilize is ridiculous because it's instant cast and it comes with a root. Be prepared to CC break and then roll dodge out of the root.

I agree with this. Also reminds me of the long, drawn out threads of people complaining Sorcs stunk and would stink in 1.6 so badly the class may as well be deleted where I argued they would be very well off in actuality. We all know that the complaints weren't true by now, and it is the same case on this issue too.

Not to take your thread off topic, but you started it, so here it goes. I've seen you pop into a few threads now saying, 'See I told you so about Sorc being strong,' but Sorc is only known as strong in PVP and 95%+ of the pre1.6 Sorc QQ was directed at PVE. I didn't see anyone claiming Sorc would be weak in PVP on the PTS forums and in fact most suggestions had a caveat that they may be hard to implement without making Sorc too strong in PVP. Keep patting yourself on the back though for some odd reason. Sorc PVE DPS is still low compared to other classes as far as I am concerned. Sorc PVE utility is also low. I'm surprised you don't remember with all the PTS commenting you did that literally all of the complaints were PVE related.

Also, while I do think Sorc IS strong in PVP, I believe the pendulum is already swinging away from them as people realize the power of stam builds and dodge roll.

Sorc pve dps is not low. They are excellent trials dps.

You're just not doing it right


Source: have sorc, did sanctum hardmode speedrun last night with multiple sorcs.


The effective builds are not well publicized, but they definitely exist.

You may very well be right as I haven't stepped foot in Trials since 1.6 and only did DPS tests on PTS. Seemed to me Sorcs were topping out at 14k unless starting fight with 1000% ult and spamming Power Overload where we would reach 16k. That 14k is fairly dependent on a stationary boss as well for full Liquid Lightning up time. My DK friends claim they are pushing 18k on most fights at the moment in magicka spec and stam appears to do as much if not more. I personally don't mind Sorc DPS where it is as it is ranged, but took offense to Attorney bringing up his issues with Sorc ffedback on PTS when 95% of it was PVE related and 95% of the 'Sorc too strong' arguments now are PVP related.

Attorneyatlawl

Erock25 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Fear and fossilize need a change. All the nb in here bringing up wards and heals and they don't even realize they have the most op pvp class in the game right now. Fear being blockable wouldn't even effect me and I still think a change is necessary. Fossilize is ridiculous because it's instant cast and it comes with a root. Be prepared to CC break and then roll dodge out of the root.

I agree with this. Also reminds me of the long, drawn out threads of people complaining Sorcs stunk and would stink in 1.6 so badly the class may as well be deleted where I argued they would be very well off in actuality. We all know that the complaints weren't true by now, and it is the same case on this issue too.

Not to take your thread off topic, but you started it, so here it goes. I've seen you pop into a few threads now saying, 'See I told you so about Sorc being strong,' but Sorc is only known as strong in PVP and 95%+ of the pre1.6 Sorc QQ was directed at PVE. I didn't see anyone claiming Sorc would be weak in PVP on the PTS forums and in fact most suggestions had a caveat that they may be hard to implement without making Sorc too strong in PVP. Keep patting yourself on the back though for some odd reason. Sorc PVE DPS is still low compared to other classes as far as I am concerned. Sorc PVE utility is also low. I'm surprised you don't remember with all the PTS commenting you did that literally all of the complaints were PVE related.

Also, while I do think Sorc IS strong in PVP, I believe the pendulum is already swinging away from them as people realize the power of stam builds and dodge roll.

They are very strong in PVE, too . Look for my Sorcerer on the Sanctum Ophidia and veteran Dragonstar Arena leaderboards in-game if you want . He's pretty far up on the daggerfall ones and is named Don't Nerf Me Bro , and will be moving up further on the SO one on Saturday likely. As far as the forum posting, a large number of the complaints people, including yourself, were making about Sorcerers before 1.6 hit live were PVP related for the record, and how they would be fodder for overpowered Templars and Dragonknights. As I said, it's abundantly clear to anyone that neither of those things were true.

Bouvin

Divad Zarn wrote: »

Yeah, lets delete NB class completely.

LOL

Then people will complain about Sorc some more so let's remove those.

Then Templar, then DK.

Heck.. why don't they just have us all play Mud Crabs?

Attorneyatlawl

Ezareth wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

It's the only CC in the game you cannot prevent in advance by blocking, and it's also the only aoe "soft" cc that does not break on damage. Templars can hit you with a ground target shards, but you are free if even so much as a DoT tick from them hits you. DK's can fossilize you, but as soon as you're hit you have a chance to react. Same deal with sorcerers and their rune prison. You also can block most cc's like these. However, if an NB fears you and you don't have enough stamina to CC break, you're done: they can unload damage on you as you run helplessly in a random direction. On magicka builds this is particularly nasty an issue as you already run on a tightrope to manage blocking important attacks.

If a nightblade with fear runs into you and you don't always maintain enough stamina for a CC break move, popping fear is essentially an automatic win for them. No other skill in the game is like this with no way to defend against it. The added debuffs were a great addition, but the more recent change to being unblockable just is outright on another level of power compared to every other CC move in the game, amounting to a stunlock.

I don't think Fear is OP, I think it is a class flavor of the Nightblade Class. Every class should have some unique and powerful abilities at their disposal. The entire nightblade class is built around stealth and surprise stun attacks. Having fear break on damage would significantly gimp the class.

Fear does however need fixed so that break free works on it 100% of the time, otherwise it bugs too easily and people get free kills on you. Everyone who wants to be successful at PvP needs to build and account for CC. There are a multitude of different options out there and I feel strongly that if you get caught without enough stamina to break free then you should probably die. Resource management is what separates good players from the bad.

Think this was already covered with the whole thing of it being bugged . That's probably the reason that even if I had a regen tick I still couldn't break free and was being re-feared with no way out, and of course the scenario I was mentioning of having enough stamina to block an attack but not break free means I should have been able to break free quickly (as soon as a regen tick hits, which is every 2 seconds) at that time. Hence a large part of the complaint about not being able to block it and having no way out as it turns out, making it feel (on the receiving end) much more powerful than it should be: because it is , just because of bugs, however, not the design as we've now had explained.

The keybind theory posited I don't think is related, given that I (and I'm sure most people) have had break-free/bash bound to a keyboard key since beta (not mouse buttons).

Attorneyatlawl

Jaerlach wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Fear and fossilize need a change. All the nb in here bringing up wards and heals and they don't even realize they have the most op pvp class in the game right now. Fear being blockable wouldn't even effect me and I still think a change is necessary. Fossilize is ridiculous because it's instant cast and it comes with a root. Be prepared to CC break and then roll dodge out of the root.

I agree with this. Also reminds me of the long, drawn out threads of people complaining Sorcs stunk and would stink in 1.6 so badly the class may as well be deleted where I argued they would be very well off in actuality. We all know that the complaints weren't true by now, and it is the same case on this issue too.

Not to take your thread off topic, but you started it, so here it goes. I've seen you pop into a few threads now saying, 'See I told you so about Sorc being strong,' but Sorc is only known as strong in PVP and 95%+ of the pre1.6 Sorc QQ was directed at PVE. I didn't see anyone claiming Sorc would be weak in PVP on the PTS forums and in fact most suggestions had a caveat that they may be hard to implement without making Sorc too strong in PVP. Keep patting yourself on the back though for some odd reason. Sorc PVE DPS is still low compared to other classes as far as I am concerned. Sorc PVE utility is also low. I'm surprised you don't remember with all the PTS commenting you did that literally all of the complaints were PVE related.

Also, while I do think Sorc IS strong in PVP, I believe the pendulum is already swinging away from them as people realize the power of stam builds and dodge roll.

Sorc pve dps is not low. They are excellent trials dps.

You're just not doing it right


Source: have sorc, did sanctum hardmode speedrun last night with multiple sorcs.


The effective builds are not well publicized, but they definitely exist.

Erock25 wrote: »

You may very well be right as I haven't stepped foot in Trials since 1.6 and only did DPS tests on PTS. Seemed to me Sorcs were topping out at 14k unless starting fight with 1000% ult and spamming Power Overload where we would reach 16k. That 14k is fairly dependent on a stationary boss as well for full Liquid Lightning up time. My DK friends claim they are pushing 18k on most fights at the moment in magicka spec and stam appears to do as much if not more. I personally don't mind Sorc DPS where it is as it is ranged, but took offense to Attorney bringing up his issues with Sorc ffedback on PTS when 95% of it was PVE related and 95% of the 'Sorc too strong' arguments now are PVP related.

Your friends are not pulling 18k on a full Hardmode Serpent.

Source: Am in a guild with this sorc, and have a sorc of my own too that kicks out nice dps and fought hardmode serpent. I sometimes think people assume the only builds you can make are the ones sitting on youtube videos being shown off by streamers promoting their websites?

Sylvyr

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

If a nightblade with fear runs into you and you don't always maintain enough stamina for a CC break move, popping fear is essentially an automatic win for them.

Just want to point out that this is a big and important if.

If you don't maintain stam for defense... You are ASKING for trouble. IMHO you'd be one of the many people out there that don't think about playing defensively or incorporating defense. Why not just take off all your armor before running into a fight? Instead of throwing all your resources into magicka or damage, why not spread it out a little so that you can have more facets to your character?

Each class has unique things that make them dangerous. And IMHO, that's fine. Otherwise let's just get rid of classes and incorporate spell crafting where everyone can be in the same boat.

Fear might be annoying, and it might be considered more annoying than other CC, but it is breakable. And it's situational. Just because you have fear does not guarantee a win.

Personally, I'm sick of everything being 360 degree blockable and consider S/B block builds to be way more annoying and am glad there are some things that go around it.

Attorneyatlawl

Deleted accidental doublepost.

Attorneyatlawl

Sylvyr wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

If a nightblade with fear runs into you and you don't always maintain enough stamina for a CC break move, popping fear is essentially an automatic win for them.

Just want to point out that this is a big and important if.

If you don't maintain stam for defense... You are ASKING for trouble. IMHO you'd be one of the many people out there that don't think about playing defensively or incorporating defense. Why not just take off all your armor before running into a fight? Instead of throwing all your resources into magicka or damage, why not spread it out a little so that you can have more facets to your character?

Each class has unique things that make them dangerous. And IMHO, that's fine. Otherwise let's just get rid of classes and incorporate spell crafting where everyone can be in the same boat.

Fear might be annoying, and it might be considered more annoying than other CC, but it is breakable. And it's situational. Just because you have fear does not guarantee a win.

Personally, I'm sick of everything being 360 degree blockable and consider S/B block builds to be way more annoying and am glad there are some things that go around it.

I don't think you've read many posts by me if you think I advocate, let alone personally run, anything squishy with no defenses . The problem is that with fear bugged as it is, the resource drain is magnified by needing repeated breaks that on magicka characters are costly and run dry quickly compared to stamina ones. My magicka sorc has enough stamina to break free 4 times including regeneration over 10 seconds, but when fear is hitting you multiple times inside of five seconds in the middle of the fight when normally it isn't meant to but does due to the current bugs, that matters little . So do the mitigation and the damage shields, or active movements like streak or the one hand shield reflect at that point, or blocking.

Cody

Jakeol wrote: »

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

There are plenty of non-tanks out there that can live long enough to CC break and get block up/dodgeroll/heals/damageshields up, if you are dieing in a single fear, as a tank, you're probably being zerged down, or someone is investing significant resources (aka an ult) to finish you in that 1 sec timeframe they have to get some damage in before you can break fear. It really is a L2P issue honestly. If you get cced, you have to break free fast or you will die. This is the case versus any class. React faster, or don't get into 10v1 situations, guess what? You're not a special snowflake, everyone dies in 10v1 cases at some point. Drink some cement and harden up m8.

he played back when people could kill 10 players solo due to block casting and class/mechanic imbalances. He and others have yet to accept the fact that one person cant solo 10 players anymore.

he will learn:) dont worry. He is not a bad player; he is just having a hard time adjusting.

Attorneyatlawl

Cody wrote: »

Jakeol wrote: »

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

There are plenty of non-tanks out there that can live long enough to CC break and get block up/dodgeroll/heals/damageshields up, if you are dieing in a single fear, as a tank, you're probably being zerged down, or someone is investing significant resources (aka an ult) to finish you in that 1 sec timeframe they have to get some damage in before you can break fear. It really is a L2P issue honestly. If you get cced, you have to break free fast or you will die. This is the case versus any class. React faster, or don't get into 10v1 situations, guess what? You're not a special snowflake, everyone dies in 10v1 cases at some point. Drink some cement and harden up m8.

he played back when people could kill 10 players solo due to block casting and class/mechanic imbalances. He and others have yet to accept the fact that one person cant solo 10 players anymore.

he will learn:) dont worry. He is not a bad player; he is just having a hard time adjusting.

Have you read the discussion in this thread to notice that it turns out fear is bugged hugely and that is the cause of the issues combating it? There's no adjustment needed by anyone to account for it other than a hot fix . And yes, I or anyone else can kill 10 enemies in a 1vX or 2vX fight still... speaking of adjusting, it doesn't look like I'm having a problem doing so .

Cody

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Jakeol wrote: »

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

There are plenty of non-tanks out there that can live long enough to CC break and get block up/dodgeroll/heals/damageshields up, if you are dieing in a single fear, as a tank, you're probably being zerged down, or someone is investing significant resources (aka an ult) to finish you in that 1 sec timeframe they have to get some damage in before you can break fear. It really is a L2P issue honestly. If you get cced, you have to break free fast or you will die. This is the case versus any class. React faster, or don't get into 10v1 situations, guess what? You're not a special snowflake, everyone dies in 10v1 cases at some point. Drink some cement and harden up m8.

he played back when people could kill 10 players solo due to block casting and class/mechanic imbalances. He and others have yet to accept the fact that one person cant solo 10 players anymore.

he will learn:) dont worry. He is not a bad player; he is just having a hard time adjusting.

Have you read the discussion in this thread to notice that it turns out fear is bugged hugely and that is the cause of the issues combating it? There's no adjustment needed by anyone to account for it other than a hot fix . And yes, I or anyone else can kill 10 enemies in a 1vX or 2vX fight still... speaking of adjusting, it doesn't look like I'm having a problem doing so .

, yes I am aware that fear is bugged. fix the bug and leave it as it is.

the excuse "I cant take on 10 people solo" is a poor excuse. tanks can still break fear fast enough to continue tanking; I've seen it multiple times. it seems you ARE having trouble adjusting to CC breaking

there are multiple block breakers in the game now friend, you have to work your way around them.

At least you are not calling cloak OP I suppose. sithis knows we dont need that ability being nerfed,

Ace_SiN

Cody wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Zhoyzu wrote: »

Fear only counter to perma blocking, so its a good thing.

Why should only ONE class have a spell effect that can override blocking, something all classes do?

well DKs have petrify

sorcs have rune prison i believe.

im sure templars have something too.

Templars= Blazing Spear(don't remember the base name of this one..)

jelliedsoup

Erock25 wrote: »

Fear and fossilize need a change. All the nb in here bringing up wards and heals and they don't even realize they have the most op pvp class in the game right now. Fear being blockable wouldn't even effect me and I still think a change is necessary. Fossilize is ridiculous because it's instant cast and it comes with a root. Be prepared to CC break and then roll dodge out of the root.

i find sorcs all use the same op combo of skills and complain as fear is the one skill that troubles them.

Attorneyatlawl

Cody wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Jakeol wrote: »

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

There are plenty of non-tanks out there that can live long enough to CC break and get block up/dodgeroll/heals/damageshields up, if you are dieing in a single fear, as a tank, you're probably being zerged down, or someone is investing significant resources (aka an ult) to finish you in that 1 sec timeframe they have to get some damage in before you can break fear. It really is a L2P issue honestly. If you get cced, you have to break free fast or you will die. This is the case versus any class. React faster, or don't get into 10v1 situations, guess what? You're not a special snowflake, everyone dies in 10v1 cases at some point. Drink some cement and harden up m8.

he played back when people could kill 10 players solo due to block casting and class/mechanic imbalances. He and others have yet to accept the fact that one person cant solo 10 players anymore.

he will learn:) dont worry. He is not a bad player; he is just having a hard time adjusting.

Have you read the discussion in this thread to notice that it turns out fear is bugged hugely and that is the cause of the issues combating it? There's no adjustment needed by anyone to account for it other than a hot fix . And yes, I or anyone else can kill 10 enemies in a 1vX or 2vX fight still... speaking of adjusting, it doesn't look like I'm having a problem doing so .

, yes I am aware that fear is bugged. fix the bug and leave it as it is.

the excuse "I cant take on 10 people solo" is a poor excuse. tanks can still break fear fast enough to continue tanking; I've seen it multiple times. it seems you ARE having trouble adjusting to CC breaking

there are multiple block breakers in the game now friend, you have to work your way around them.

At least you are not calling cloak OP I suppose. sithis knows we dont need that ability being nerfed,

I'm unsure what your comments about adjusting are about then if you are now aware of the bug, or even who they are addressed to, then. Analogous situation would be someone complaining they couldn't kill anything once a global HP boost was given, and you harp on how he is a bad player when it's actually a bug not allowing him to attack that's the issue . Also, I'm a bit befuddled by talk by you of nerfing Dark Cloak.... I like the skill, personally, and usually slot it for PVP in Cyrodiil?

Shadow-Fighter

No

Teiji

Why not just make fear break with damage?

I feel every class should have unblockable CC.

Btw, thank you for fighting the Good Fight; Attornatlawl - the peoples hero.

Shadow-Fighter

Divad Zarn wrote: »

Yeah, lets delete NB class completely.

Agree.

Otherwise nerf all other classes, especially sorcs with their perma blink blink

Attorneyatlawl

Teiji wrote: »

Why not just make fear break with damage?

I feel every class should have unblockable CC.

Btw, thank you for fighting the Good Fight; Attornatlawl - the peoples hero.

That's definitely a workable way of balancing it .

I appreciate the kind words. Cheers!

Cody

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Jakeol wrote: »

krim wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Get more Stam management. Sick of qqing about abilities that counter the poster's build

Stam management is not the problem. In my case its hard to break the stun if im already dead the second i get feared and drop block. Since im not standing on a veil 24/7 now its impossible to tank any group of enemies if theirs a NB there spamming fear. Fear was already a strong counter to tanks pre 1.6. Take away their ulti spam ability and make it so fear drops block = rekt tanks.

There are plenty of non-tanks out there that can live long enough to CC break and get block up/dodgeroll/heals/damageshields up, if you are dieing in a single fear, as a tank, you're probably being zerged down, or someone is investing significant resources (aka an ult) to finish you in that 1 sec timeframe they have to get some damage in before you can break fear. It really is a L2P issue honestly. If you get cced, you have to break free fast or you will die. This is the case versus any class. React faster, or don't get into 10v1 situations, guess what? You're not a special snowflake, everyone dies in 10v1 cases at some point. Drink some cement and harden up m8.

he played back when people could kill 10 players solo due to block casting and class/mechanic imbalances. He and others have yet to accept the fact that one person cant solo 10 players anymore.

he will learn:) dont worry. He is not a bad player; he is just having a hard time adjusting.

Have you read the discussion in this thread to notice that it turns out fear is bugged hugely and that is the cause of the issues combating it? There's no adjustment needed by anyone to account for it other than a hot fix . And yes, I or anyone else can kill 10 enemies in a 1vX or 2vX fight still... speaking of adjusting, it doesn't look like I'm having a problem doing so .

, yes I am aware that fear is bugged. fix the bug and leave it as it is.

the excuse "I cant take on 10 people solo" is a poor excuse. tanks can still break fear fast enough to continue tanking; I've seen it multiple times. it seems you ARE having trouble adjusting to CC breaking

there are multiple block breakers in the game now friend, you have to work your way around them.

At least you are not calling cloak OP I suppose. sithis knows we dont need that ability being nerfed,

I'm unsure what your comments about adjusting are about then if you are now aware of the bug, or even who they are addressed to, then. Analogous situation would be someone complaining they couldn't kill anything once a global HP boost was given, and you harp on how he is a bad player when it's actually a bug not allowing him to attack that's the issue . Also, I'm a bit befuddled by talk by you of nerfing Dark Cloak.... I like the skill, personally, and usually slot it for PVP in Cyrodiil?

i was saying i was happy that you did not want cloak nerfed:)

let me explain my comments about fear. you seem the reasonable type, so I will keep this up

I want the CC system itself fixed. Yes fear is suffering from bugs related to CC breaking, I have encountered them myself in fact.

however, I do not think it is right to blame the ability for a problem with the system itself(the system in this case, is the CC system, as i will call it)

I think the CC issues themselves should be fixed and fear should be left alone. I would much rather people dealt with the root of the problem than nerfing an ability.

if fear were to be nerfed, I guarantee that this CC issue would appear in some other ability, then we would be back to where we are now.

Cody

Teiji wrote: »

Why not just make fear break with damage?

I feel every class should have unblockable CC.

Btw, thank you for fighting the Good Fight; Attornatlawl - the peoples hero.

i have seen people want it to remain blockable, so it would remain a stamina drain, and now I see people wanting it to break on damage.

Pick one peeps!:)

Attorneyatlawl

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

It's the only CC in the game you cannot prevent in advance by blocking, and it's also the only aoe "soft" cc that does not break on damage. Templars can hit you with a ground target shards, but you are free if even so much as a DoT tick from them hits you. DK's can fossilize you, but as soon as you're hit you have a chance to react. Same deal with sorcerers and their rune prison. You also can block most cc's like these. However, if an NB fears you and you don't have enough stamina to CC break, you're done: they can unload damage on you as you run helplessly in a random direction. On magicka builds this is particularly nasty an issue as you already run on a tightrope to manage blocking important attacks.

If a nightblade with fear runs into you and you don't always maintain enough stamina for a CC break move, popping fear is essentially an automatic win for them. No other skill in the game is like this with no way to defend against it. The added debuffs were a great addition, but the more recent change to being unblockable just is outright on another level of power compared to every other CC move in the game, amounting to a stunlock.

So, it's been well over a month now, and it's yet to be fixed. Fear regularly goes right through immovable, block (currently by design), gives no CC immunity once CC broken through break free, and generally even hits you while dodge rolling. I've started running into, these past few days when going out solo, NB's literally just dodge rolling once their sneak attack fails to kill me, and then spamming fear as soon as they can regain any melee range, los/dodgerolling along the way until they can do so. If I cc break the fear, they just punch it again immediately and I'm re-cc'd. I can't block to stop it. I can't damage shield enough (28k in shielding is about what I peak at, and in 5 seconds (4.5 fear + around a half second delay from when you're unable to control your toon to when the fear timer starts) most anyone can burst right through that and kill you).

On the rare occasion I live through it once they've done their setup and are back in range for me to hit them, I usually can kill them, but some have taken to literally just spamming dodge roll and relying entirely on this now well-known broken+bugged skill in order to "win" (quote-unquote) any fights. I've taken to hitting a shadowplay button with a 2 minute buffer lately and hitting it every time I die, which tonight was 6 times in around three and a half hours. Five of those involved fear, one of which was a perma dodgeroller that kept spamming it until I couldn't cc break it (and would reapply it as soon as I did, to boot) and one was a guy who just ran up when I had immovable on while finishing soloing a resource, punched fear, and had at it. The final death was just from running into an enemy force on a keep wall during an offensive siege which I died naturally of .

Can we please get this addressed? I've played games that had skills this bugged and broken before crop up, but they always disabled them within the day or so once the team knew about them until it could be patched to work properly/as intended, in some cases getting balance tweaks at the same time. I've tallied about 70% of my deaths in PVP (group and solo) being due to fear bugs in the last two weeks at this point, with another 10% of those being fear casts that didn't encounter a bug but of course went through block by design. This is the kind of extremely broken, bugged, and glitchy ability that gets abused by certain community elements relentlessly until no one's there to try it on except other guys doing the same thing. The most similar parallel I can think of is an FPS server where hackers come in and no admins are around to ban them or at least kick them, so they glitch things out and then realize no one's there to stop them and start instakilling people from their own spawns until the server empties out .

I know consoles have been a huge priority, but the fear issues have been so widespread it's just unignorable, as anyone really could have seen back when this thread was originally even started. I have started not going out to PVP in anything but large groups half the time lately, because otherwise I can expect to die, statistically, most of the time to fear and its related bugs, a little bit of the time to non-bugged fear, and about a fifth of the time to actual combat. A week before I made this thread, fear was knocking people through the terrain within a second or less unless they were on almost completely flat terrain... one night this happened to me literally five times during a scroll take push on keeps, and each time I spent about 6 minutes running across the majority of the map again before giving up. The people that night didn't even kill me, they just hit fear and it glitched people through the world, they'd fall, and they'd be ported back to their main starting gate in Cyrodiil (High Rock Gate for DC players like myself). @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_AlanG, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, can we please get some kind of status update on this whole problem?

I can deal with waiting for zones and patches, or the console launch to pass so development on the main game itself gets back in swing, or just lackings I feel on parts of the game in general like the UI and happily post feedback about them.... but bugs like these are just too big to ignore and enjoy playing with. In group fights I was often hearing people say they died and had no idea why, their game desynched or locked up and they couldn't do anything, etc. and would ask them a question or two, and almost always they realized it was fear causing it. Not everyone is observant enough or well versed in the game mechanics to notice, but this set of bugs is hitting everyone and they direly need to be fixed.

Vizier

How do you block an emotion? Can I block talons? hmm. Don't think that works. Even if you could it really doesn't matter if it's a unique skill. It should remain as it is.

Every class has something that is their ace in the whole. Some effect themselves while in the case of the NB fear is effects others. Sorc BE, use for everything button.

NB do not have a self heal. Their signature skill is counterable 100 ways to Sunday. They have no other AOE CC to speak of and people want to lament the one thing that can help folks kill the unkillable and uncatchable.

IMO- Fear cuts some of the Godlings down to size and needs to stay just how it is.

xylena

Vizier wrote: »

IMO- Fear cuts some of the Godlings down to size and needs to stay just how it is.

[Potato]

Awe

Reading such topics makes me wanna set fear to my skill bar and spam it in every situation! but as I , persoannly, have not much troubles with it being cast on me, don't think it even usefull. Too rare i meet solo blockers, that wouldn't die by crowd w/o fear. And if you can survive 10 players hitting you w/o fear, YOU should be nerfed.

xylena

seriously though i don't expect to win every 1vX or even win more of those than i lose... i'd just like to die FIGHTING, not mashing buttons in vain as my character runs in terror from a wood elf breathing heavily

the constant stream of disabling effects in pvp can really suck the fun out of it, and fear is the worst offender

cozmon3c_ESO

they should just make fear dodgeable but go through block, there fixed. then it has a weakness.

Attorneyatlawl

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

they should just make fear dodgeable but go through block, there fixed. then it has a weakness.

Or they could fix the massive bugs and then balance the skill to some vague semblance of what everyone else's does in terms of power, target count, duration/breaking-on-damage, and effect.

xylena wrote: »

seriously though i don't expect to win every 1vX or even win more of those than i lose... i'd just like to die FIGHTING, not mashing buttons in vain as my character runs in terror from a wood elf breathing heavily

the constant stream of disabling effects in pvp can really suck the fun out of it, and fear is the worst offender

The bugs are still the biggest offenders in regards to fear. I'd say a good 3/4ths of the time I press my CC break repeatedly after being feared, despite even being at full stamina with ~13000, it does nothing. Half the time when it does CC break, they are able to immediately re-fear me since it bugs and doesn't give the proper 5 seconds' worth of CC immunity. It also completely disregards Immovable when I've tried to use it, to boot! And by design it's not even blockable. It's not only just horrendously imbalanced a skill, it's also so incredibly buggy that it has become nearly a gamebreaker for a lot of people in PVP at this point.

Awe wrote: »

Reading such topics makes me wanna set fear to my skill bar and spam it in every situation! but as I , persoannly, have not much troubles with it being cast on me, don't think it even usefull. Too rare i meet solo blockers, that wouldn't die by crowd w/o fear. And if you can survive 10 players hitting you w/o fear, YOU should be nerfed.

Abusing a bugged ability isn't skill. Living with 10 guys hitting you and taking them out, is skillful. Breaking down the guy's block or using an actual gameplay counter is skillful, too. Running into someone aoe'ing and using defense skills so you can be ground into mincemeat, is not. The problem with fear is twofold, the main issues being its huge number and severity of bugs/glitches, and the second being its large imbalance with other CC's in the game.

Vizier wrote: »

How do you block an emotion? Can I block talons? hmm. Don't think that works. Even if you could it really doesn't matter if it's a unique skill. It should remain as it is.

Every class has something that is their ace in the whole. Some effect themselves while in the case of the NB fear is effects others. Sorc BE, use for everything button.

NB do not have a self heal. Their signature skill is counterable 100 ways to Sunday. They have no other AOE CC to speak of and people want to lament the one thing that can help folks kill the unkillable and uncatchable.

IMO- Fear cuts some of the Godlings down to size and needs to stay just how it is.

Hate to break it to you, but lore friendliness isn't a concern when it comes to game balancing or whether a skill is bugged to high heavens and back like fear currently is.

Domander

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Morvul wrote: »

ginoboehm wrote: »

hasn't streak and fossilize the same mechanic that it will stun you even if blocked? the fossilize uppercut combo is especially brutal. of course fear should be unblockable. The real problem is in the stupid TTK combine that with the latency and fear can often mean death. A stun with a similar mechanic as fear is shield charge

Streak was changed from a "disorient" to a "stun" in 1.6, which made it both blockable and provide CC immunity.

DK Fossilize, NB agony, Sorc Rune prison and Templar shards should also provide a "block bypassing" CC, by my understanding of gamemechanics.
(Personal experience with rune prison is a low success rate to CC blockers - I assume it's a L2P issue though and I'm not seeing those last swirvels of their CC imunity... needs more testing)

Principally I like the idea of certain CC bypassing block, as it offers an alternative to stamina drain strategies to deal with perma-blockers. That said: fear being unavoidable, 3 target, relatively long duration CC makes it very, very strong. I'm not entirely sure though if NBs would be still viable if fear would be nerfed...

DK Fossilize breaks on damage. Sorc rune prison breaks on damage. Templar shards break on damage. Nightblade fear does not break on damage. See the issue? Rune prison also is a 1.5s cast, while the Templar's shards take about 2 seconds to land and are able to be proactively avoided as a result. NB fear is instant while affecting 3 targets and unblockable. The rest all are single-target CC.

1h Shield charge is blockable. 2h Critical charge is blockable. 2h Wrecking Blow is blockable. Streak is/was blockable (may have changed now in 2.0?). Templar Binding Javelin is blockable. Sorc Crystal Fragments are blockable. Fear is not blockable. Again, see the issue?

I play a sorc, dk, and nb with a long length of time having played them from beta through now, including v14 live characters that are well-geared of those three. NB's have sap essence and swallow soul as their "heals"/lifetaps, but that's not really related honestly to the topic. Each of the four classes has some extra bits they're stronger at, but inside of all of the weapon skill lines and class skill lines, the nightblade fear has no equal.

Fear also gives CC immunity though

I think it's fine, it's good to have counters to blocking all the time.

Lesspa

"We like that fear has a unique role on the battlefield." - ZOS

So then they decide to buff it more by making your block drop while in fear. Bravo, ZOS.

A+ for balance!