How to balance Sorcs

Stamden

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

i can count the good sorcs that are as good or better then me on one hand as well, i fight them all the time.

Teargrants
Prett
Derra
Saber Ali (when he was a sorc)

and the ones i play with
Erkon Quietus
Vae Exillis
(these two guys do amazing things)

Why exactly is this relevant to the discussion?

cozmon3c_ESO

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

i can count the good sorcs that are as good or better then me on one hand as well, i fight them all the time.

Teargrants
Prett
Derra
Saber Ali (when he was a sorc)

and the ones i play with
Erkon Quietus
Vae Exillis
(these two guys do amazing things)

Why exactly is this relevant to the discussion?

Are you relevant to this discussion? you're argueing with some of the best players in the game about class balance, who are you again? I dont see the best players of Templar, NB, and DK coming in here and complaining about Sorcs. you know why, because they can kill a sorc. they realize that they can build a stronger build on the other classes then a Magicka Based sorc can even reach. Why do you think Saber Ali became a night blade (probably the best ive fought against yet). Your crusade needs to end buddy because only really bad players cant kill a sorc and i get killed by bad players all teh time that just sit in the back and snipe from stealth. Good day.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Cenion wrote: »

SafiyerAmitora wrote: »

I've fought plenty of Sorcs on my NB and DK, and I died to most of them, but it's more of a weakness in my builds than anything and I don't complain because I didn't specifically spec to kill them, and that's my own fault. A fault I don't mind.

This is not right. You should not need to specifically build around beating someone unless he has also built specifically to beat you. I can only assume, but I doubt those sorcs changed their builds to beat you. They have their builds and they counter more or less everyone.

Bull. Sorcs have to do it too. We have to make sure we are using things that are not going to be reflected by RS. We adapted in PvP to that specific spell. No reason other classes can't use a gap closer on us or exploit our lack of stamina. Everyone has to adjust.

Stamden

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

i can count the good sorcs that are as good or better then me on one hand as well, i fight them all the time.

Teargrants
Prett
Derra
Saber Ali (when he was a sorc)

and the ones i play with
Erkon Quietus
Vae Exillis
(these two guys do amazing things)

Why exactly is this relevant to the discussion?

Are you relevant to this discussion? you're argueing with some of the best players in the game about class balance, who are you again? I dont see the best players of Templar, NB, and DK coming in here and complaining about Sorcs. you know why, because they can kill a sorc. they realize that they can build a stronger build on the other classes then a Magicka Based sorc can even reach. Why do you think Saber Ali became a night blade (probably the best ive fought against yet). Your crusade needs to end buddy because only really bad players cant kill a sorc and i get killed by bad players all teh time that just sit in the back and snipe from stealth. Good day.

Old school Wabbajack DK, before your time. Anyway, I'm not saying you can't kill a Sorc, I kill Sorcs all the time, that's not the problem. The problem is that between BE and shield spam, they take way too long to go down. Even if you do get them in a 1v1 situation, they will prolong the fight and move to the nearest group of enemies until your outnumbered. Then in group play Sorcs are by far the best class just due to their high mobility and ranged damage. Having the best escape in the game also means they can survive longer then anyone else. Not dying = Not having to travel back = More time spent gaining AP. They are the superior AvA class overall.

Tankqull

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

i can count the good sorcs that are as good or better then me on one hand as well, i fight them all the time.

Teargrants
Prett
Derra
Saber Ali (when he was a sorc)

and the ones i play with
Erkon Quietus
Vae Exillis
(these two guys do amazing things)

Why exactly is this relevant to the discussion?

Are you relevant to this discussion? you're argueing with some of the best players in the game about class balance, who are you again? I dont see the best players of Templar, NB, and DK coming in here and complaining about Sorcs. you know why, because they can kill a sorc. they realize that they can build a stronger build on the other classes then a Magicka Based sorc can even reach. Why do you think Saber Ali became a night blade (probably the best ive fought against yet). Your crusade needs to end buddy because only really bad players cant kill a sorc and i get killed by bad players all teh time that just sit in the back and snipe from stealth. Good day.

Old school Wabbajack DK, before your time. Anyway, I'm not saying you can't kill a Sorc, I kill Sorcs all the time, that's not the problem. The problem is that between BE and shield spam, they take way too long to go down. Even if you do get them in a 1v1 situation, they will prolong the fight and move to the nearest group of enemies until your outnumbered. Then in group play Sorcs are by far the best class just due to their high mobility and ranged damage. Having the best escape in the game also means they can survive longer then anyone else. Not dying = Not having to travel back = More time spent gaining AP. They are the superior AvA class overall.

ROFL
coming from the class with the highest survivability sinc beta being able to extend fights for hours to be sure to recieve reinforcements to never lose a fight.
blaming a nother class doing the same...

cozmon3c_ESO

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

i can count the good sorcs that are as good or better then me on one hand as well, i fight them all the time.

Teargrants
Prett
Derra
Saber Ali (when he was a sorc)

and the ones i play with
Erkon Quietus
Vae Exillis
(these two guys do amazing things)

Why exactly is this relevant to the discussion?

Are you relevant to this discussion? you're argueing with some of the best players in the game about class balance, who are you again? I dont see the best players of Templar, NB, and DK coming in here and complaining about Sorcs. you know why, because they can kill a sorc. they realize that they can build a stronger build on the other classes then a Magicka Based sorc can even reach. Why do you think Saber Ali became a night blade (probably the best ive fought against yet). Your crusade needs to end buddy because only really bad players cant kill a sorc and i get killed by bad players all teh time that just sit in the back and snipe from stealth. Good day.

Old school Wabbajack DK, before your time. Anyway, I'm not saying you can't kill a Sorc, I kill Sorcs all the time, that's not the problem. The problem is that between BE and shield spam, they take way too long to go down. Even if you do get them in a 1v1 situation, they will prolong the fight and move to the nearest group of enemies until your outnumbered. Then in group play Sorcs are by far the best class just due to their high mobility and ranged damage. Having the best escape in the game also means they can survive longer then anyone else. Not dying = Not having to travel back = More time spent gaining AP. They are the superior AvA class overall.

well i see now, you were once an OP Dk vamp and used to the free kills on wabajack, and no its not before my time. you know who takes far to long to go down, Dk's, they always have and still do. and if your a dk and cant time RS properly well then theres nothing more we can do for you to help you kill a sorc. you really want an edge, get some nirnhoned gear and sit and laugh while the sorc tries to even damage your health around RS. You need an escape, become a Vampire and mistform. the build possiblities are near endless for a DK. if you cant see the limitations that a sorc has i just dont know what to tell you. build your DK better is all i can say.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Tankqull wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

i can count the good sorcs that are as good or better then me on one hand as well, i fight them all the time.

Teargrants
Prett
Derra
Saber Ali (when he was a sorc)

and the ones i play with
Erkon Quietus
Vae Exillis
(these two guys do amazing things)

Why exactly is this relevant to the discussion?

Are you relevant to this discussion? you're argueing with some of the best players in the game about class balance, who are you again? I dont see the best players of Templar, NB, and DK coming in here and complaining about Sorcs. you know why, because they can kill a sorc. they realize that they can build a stronger build on the other classes then a Magicka Based sorc can even reach. Why do you think Saber Ali became a night blade (probably the best ive fought against yet). Your crusade needs to end buddy because only really bad players cant kill a sorc and i get killed by bad players all teh time that just sit in the back and snipe from stealth. Good day.

Old school Wabbajack DK, before your time. Anyway, I'm not saying you can't kill a Sorc, I kill Sorcs all the time, that's not the problem. The problem is that between BE and shield spam, they take way too long to go down. Even if you do get them in a 1v1 situation, they will prolong the fight and move to the nearest group of enemies until your outnumbered. Then in group play Sorcs are by far the best class just due to their high mobility and ranged damage. Having the best escape in the game also means they can survive longer then anyone else. Not dying = Not having to travel back = More time spent gaining AP. They are the superior AvA class overall.

ROFL
coming from the class with the highest survivability sinc beta being able to extend fights for hours to be sure to recieve reinforcements to never lose a fight.
blaming a nother class doing the same...

I think you just defined the word "irony".

Stamden

Tankqull wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

i can count the good sorcs that are as good or better then me on one hand as well, i fight them all the time.

Teargrants
Prett
Derra
Saber Ali (when he was a sorc)

and the ones i play with
Erkon Quietus
Vae Exillis
(these two guys do amazing things)

Why exactly is this relevant to the discussion?

Are you relevant to this discussion? you're argueing with some of the best players in the game about class balance, who are you again? I dont see the best players of Templar, NB, and DK coming in here and complaining about Sorcs. you know why, because they can kill a sorc. they realize that they can build a stronger build on the other classes then a Magicka Based sorc can even reach. Why do you think Saber Ali became a night blade (probably the best ive fought against yet). Your crusade needs to end buddy because only really bad players cant kill a sorc and i get killed by bad players all teh time that just sit in the back and snipe from stealth. Good day.

Old school Wabbajack DK, before your time. Anyway, I'm not saying you can't kill a Sorc, I kill Sorcs all the time, that's not the problem. The problem is that between BE and shield spam, they take way too long to go down. Even if you do get them in a 1v1 situation, they will prolong the fight and move to the nearest group of enemies until your outnumbered. Then in group play Sorcs are by far the best class just due to their high mobility and ranged damage. Having the best escape in the game also means they can survive longer then anyone else. Not dying = Not having to travel back = More time spent gaining AP. They are the superior AvA class overall.

ROFL
coming from the class with the highest survivability sinc beta being able to extend fights for hours to be sure to recieve reinforcements to never lose a fight.
blaming a nother class doing the same...

They DK not have the highest survivabilty, and by that I mean they will not survive longer for extended periods of time then Sorcs. You have no escape. If you over-extend your dead.

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

i can count the good sorcs that are as good or better then me on one hand as well, i fight them all the time.

Teargrants
Prett
Derra
Saber Ali (when he was a sorc)

and the ones i play with
Erkon Quietus
Vae Exillis
(these two guys do amazing things)

Why exactly is this relevant to the discussion?

Are you relevant to this discussion? you're argueing with some of the best players in the game about class balance, who are you again? I dont see the best players of Templar, NB, and DK coming in here and complaining about Sorcs. you know why, because they can kill a sorc. they realize that they can build a stronger build on the other classes then a Magicka Based sorc can even reach. Why do you think Saber Ali became a night blade (probably the best ive fought against yet). Your crusade needs to end buddy because only really bad players cant kill a sorc and i get killed by bad players all teh time that just sit in the back and snipe from stealth. Good day.

Old school Wabbajack DK, before your time. Anyway, I'm not saying you can't kill a Sorc, I kill Sorcs all the time, that's not the problem. The problem is that between BE and shield spam, they take way too long to go down. Even if you do get them in a 1v1 situation, they will prolong the fight and move to the nearest group of enemies until your outnumbered. Then in group play Sorcs are by far the best class just due to their high mobility and ranged damage. Having the best escape in the game also means they can survive longer then anyone else. Not dying = Not having to travel back = More time spent gaining AP. They are the superior AvA class overall.

well i see now, you were once an OP Dk vamp and used to the free kills on wabajack, and no its not before my time. you know who takes far to long to go down, Dk's, they always have and still do. and if your a dk and cant time RS properly well then theres nothing more we can do for you to help you kill a sorc. you really want an edge, get some nirnhoned gear and sit and laugh while the sorc tries to even damage your health around RS. You need an escape, become a Vampire and mistform. the build possiblities are near endless for a DK. if you cant see the limitations that a sorc has i just dont know what to tell you. build your DK better is all i can say.

It is much easier to kill a DK then a Sorc. Shield spam is equivalent if not more effective then GDB. That's not even mentioning BE and the fact that you have to chase down Sorcs for miles before they go down. Plus that is assuming the DK is tanky, in which case he won't kill things as well as the Sorc either. You can RS all you want, your not going to kill anything like that, and assuming the Sorc is even remotely competent then it won't do anything but waste your magika. Vamp has tons of downsides and mist form isn't even that great of an escape. Face it, Sorcs do more damage and are mobile then DKs, with about the sane survivabilty. Maybe they won't win in a duel, but a in 99% of situations Sorc is better.

Francescolg

MoneyOverEverything wrote: »

3. most sorcs wear 7/7 light or 5/7 light 2/7 heavy so their spell resistance or armor isnt that high

The most recent sorcerer players wear at least 2 pieces of Nirnhood, or more, and got 20k+ spell resistances. So far the players I know.

5. very experienced sorcs got (dont know the english word of the 5th mageguild skill) äquilibrium on their bar which they use in that combo
10-20% hp -> healing ward 12-14k hp + hardened ward 10k-12k -> äquilibrium = full hp after 5 seconds + hardened ward + 20% dmg buff for their next attack for spending no mana on healing ward and/or hardened ward
that means a good sorc player always have more ressources than u if youre a bad player

The Equilibrium - Healing Ward combo is also used by Templars. Equilibrium is cast before and immediately after Healing Ward. Btw it scales pretty well with spell damage and magicka AND at the end it heals 20k if it rests 'untouched'.
But atm one absorb shield is strong enough for the sorc. Many sorcerers I know use just that alone, and not just every 4th & 5th cast but even 2nd / 3rd cast. The very high spell resistances help them versus most classes. H

ToRelax

Francescolg wrote: »

MoneyOverEverything wrote: »

3. most sorcs wear 7/7 light or 5/7 light 2/7 heavy so their spell resistance or armor isnt that high

The most recent sorcerer players, that is whose guys hanging around in pvp too long, wear at least 2 pieces of Nirnhood, or more, and got 20k+ spell resistances

5. very experienced sorcs got (dont know the english word of the 5th mageguild skill) äquilibrium on their bar which they use in that combo
10-20% hp -> healing ward 12-14k hp + hardened ward 10k-12k -> äquilibrium = full hp after 5 seconds + hardened ward + 20% dmg buff for their next attack for spending no mana on healing ward and/or hardened ward
that means a good sorc player always have more ressources than u if youre a bad player

The Equilibrium - Healing Ward combo is used by Templars and good healers. Equilibrium is used before and immediately after Healing Ward. Btw it scales pretty well with spell damage and magicka AND at the end it heals 20k if it rests 'untouched'. Atm one absorb shield is strong enough for them, many sorcerers I know use just that, healing ward is more vs. snipers, etc. while the 30k + spell resistance help them versus most classes.

I won't use nirnhoned and Equilibrium would be a waste of a slot .

Tankqull

sorry but my deaths on my sorc are in 99% of the cases related to stamina abilities wich none is affected by spell resitance...

Tintinabula

The strokage is stronk.

cozmon3c_ESO

Kypho wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

i can count the good sorcs that are as good or better then me on one hand as well, i fight them all the time.

Teargrants
Prett
Derra
Saber Ali (when he was a sorc)

and the ones i play with
Erkon Quietus
Vae Exillis
(these two guys do amazing things)

Why exactly is this relevant to the discussion?

Are you relevant to this discussion? you're argueing with some of the best players in the game about class balance, who are you again? I dont see the best players of Templar, NB, and DK coming in here and complaining about Sorcs. you know why, because they can kill a sorc. they realize that they can build a stronger build on the other classes then a Magicka Based sorc can even reach. Why do you think Saber Ali became a night blade (probably the best ive fought against yet). Your crusade needs to end buddy because only really bad players cant kill a sorc and i get killed by bad players all teh time that just sit in the back and snipe from stealth. Good day.

WELL! for a bad player like you, all players looks good! right?
Eso has no balance, just noone gives a sh.t. ZoS failed, and always will fail, its normal.

oh did i inadverntanly call you a bad player, my bad.... no wait im not even close to sorry. ESO has balance, you just have to build to counter things. the only things out of balance right now because there is no direct counters for is Fear and Petrify. And especially if you are a NB and cannot kill a sorc. i just dont know what to tell you then, kypho. you are just not good enough or built well enough to kill a sorc. the noobiest of night blades can kill me with a bow off in the back out of sight, if your having such a hard time, i wonder how much worse a player you could be compared to them.

TheBucket

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

oh did i inadverntanly call you a bad player, my bad.... no wait im not even close to sorry. ESO has balance, you just have to build to counter things. the only things out of balance right now because there is no direct counters for is Fear and Petrify. And especially if you are a NB and cannot kill a sorc. i just dont know what to tell you then, kypho. you are just not good enough or built well enough to kill a sorc. the noobiest of night blades can kill me with a bow off in the back out of sight, if your having such a hard time, i wonder how much worse a player you could be compared to them.

There are counters to fear. Immovable, CC Break, Range, resource management. You can also drink an Immovable Potion that gives you 15 seconds of immunity to CC and Stamina/Health. (I do this on my werewolf)



I don't exactly see how fear is out of balance. It's a strong ability, but other classes have them as well.

cozmon3c_ESO

TheBucket wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

oh did i inadverntanly call you a bad player, my bad.... no wait im not even close to sorry. ESO has balance, you just have to build to counter things. the only things out of balance right now because there is no direct counters for is Fear and Petrify. And especially if you are a NB and cannot kill a sorc. i just dont know what to tell you then, kypho. you are just not good enough or built well enough to kill a sorc. the noobiest of night blades can kill me with a bow off in the back out of sight, if your having such a hard time, i wonder how much worse a player you could be compared to them.

There are counters to fear. Immovable, CC Break, Range, resource management. You can also drink an Immovable Potion that gives you 15 seconds of immunity to CC and Stamina/Health. (I do this on my werewolf)



I don't exactly see how fear is out of balance. It's a strong ability, but other classes have them as well.

Here is why they are out of balance, they are instant cast and cannot be blocked or dodge rolled.

counters
Immovable: nerfed into uselessness during the pts. i know because i used to use it. Not valid for magicka users anymore.
Imovable Pot: nice pot and yes it gives you cc immunity but this is where it fails against a NB. i have to use Detect pots just to fight a night blade or they will just be invisible the entire time. or i have to use a immovable pot. so it comes down to being offensive or defensive. well hell i dont want to be on the defensive with immovable pot because i want to kill this invising fool, so i will choose a detect pot. why is night blade the only class i have to use pots against to win a fight with???? answer me that.

the way to fix this imbalance is to make it so all abilities that bypass block or dodgeroll to cc to have a cast time or long animation that is avoidable. templar, sorc have one, cast time or long animation. nightblades have 2 one isntant cast and the other cast time. dk's have 1 instant cast. templars is instant cast spear shards but its avoidable and takes skill to hit people with it, unlike the dk's petrify which takes zero skill to use (zos and thier dk love), infact fear takes zero skill to use too. i guess thats my problem with those skills is there lack of counters on the fly. sorc you can interrupt the cast, Templars you can avoid the ground aoe. Ramble ramble ramble...

TheBucket

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Here is why they are out of balance, they are instant cast and cannot be blocked or dodge rolled.

counters
Immovable: nerfed into uselessness during the pts. i know because i used to use it. Not valid for magicka users anymore.
Imovable Pot: nice pot and yes it gives you cc immunity but this is where it fails against a NB. i have to use Detect pots just to fight a night blade or they will just be invisible the entire time. or i have to use a immovable pot. so it comes down to being offensive or defensive. well hell i dont want to be on the defensive with immovable pot because i want to kill this invising fool, so i will choose a detect pot. why is night blade the only class i have to use pots against to win a fight with???? answer me that.

the way to fix this imbalance is to make it so all abilities that bypass block or dodgeroll to cc to have a cast time or long animation that is avoidable. templar, sorc have one, cast time or long animation. nightblades have 2 one isntant cast and the other cast time. dk's have 1 instant cast. templars is instant cast spear shards but its avoidable and takes skill to hit people with it, unlike the dk's petrify which takes zero skill to use (zos and thier dk love), infact fear takes zero skill to use too. i guess thats my problem with those skills is there lack of counters on the fly. sorc you can interrupt the cast, Templars you can avoid the ground aoe. Ramble ramble ramble...

You use a potion to help your fight. You don't need it. There are tons of other ways to counter stealth. You're just currently not built for it because you choose to. I build my NB to counter the strongest PvP class to me and that's Sorcs.

You put a cast time on fear, and you make it useless. Our one use-able CC already has a cast time on it, and if it didn't I would actually use it over fear because it has a range that is more useful to my class.

I would also gladly give fear up if my Shadow Cloak had the same mechanics as Ball of Lightning.

I'm not here to compare classes, but fear is far from over powered. It's not even the strongest ability in the game at the moment.

I guess you have more of an issue with Stamina NB's using Fear, because it does take skill to use Fear as a magic nightblade. I have to use Teleport Strike to get in range to even use my fear, and back out immediately because I'm wearing LA and my only shield is HW.

As a Stamina NB, you cast fear twice in a row, and you're out of magic. So you have to pick and choose when to use it.

Immovable is far from useless as well. CC immunity in this game where you can die in .5 seconds from one CC is far from useless.

cozmon3c_ESO

TheBucket wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Here is why they are out of balance, they are instant cast and cannot be blocked or dodge rolled.

counters
Immovable: nerfed into uselessness during the pts. i know because i used to use it. Not valid for magicka users anymore.
Imovable Pot: nice pot and yes it gives you cc immunity but this is where it fails against a NB. i have to use Detect pots just to fight a night blade or they will just be invisible the entire time. or i have to use a immovable pot. so it comes down to being offensive or defensive. well hell i dont want to be on the defensive with immovable pot because i want to kill this invising fool, so i will choose a detect pot. why is night blade the only class i have to use pots against to win a fight with???? answer me that.

the way to fix this imbalance is to make it so all abilities that bypass block or dodgeroll to cc to have a cast time or long animation that is avoidable. templar, sorc have one, cast time or long animation. nightblades have 2 one isntant cast and the other cast time. dk's have 1 instant cast. templars is instant cast spear shards but its avoidable and takes skill to hit people with it, unlike the dk's petrify which takes zero skill to use (zos and thier dk love), infact fear takes zero skill to use too. i guess thats my problem with those skills is there lack of counters on the fly. sorc you can interrupt the cast, Templars you can avoid the ground aoe. Ramble ramble ramble...

You use a potion to help your fight. You don't need it. There are tons of other ways to counter stealth. You're just currently not built for it because you choose to. I build my NB to counter the strongest PvP class to me and that's Sorcs.

You put a cast time on fear, and you make it useless. Our one use-able CC already has a cast time on it, and if it didn't I would actually use it over fear because it has a range that is more useful to my class.

I would also gladly give fear up if my Shadow Cloak had the same mechanics as Ball of Lightning.

I'm not here to compare classes, but fear is far from over powered. It's not even the strongest ability in the game at the moment.

I guess you have more of an issue with Stamina NB's using Fear, because it does take skill to use Fear as a magic nightblade. I have to use Teleport Strike to get in range to even use my fear, and back out immediately because I'm wearing LA and my only shield is HW.

As a Stamina NB, you cast fear twice in a row, and you're out of magic. So you have to pick and choose when to use it.

Immovable is far from useless as well. CC immunity in this game where you can die in .5 seconds from one CC is far from useless.

um you can cast fear through cloak..... not really a loss for NB. Dk's dont really suffer from getting bursted ever so a cast time will not really hinder them at all. and im looking for something like a 1.0 second cast time, nothing serious but something counterable, take some skill and timing to get off. these abilities set up the caster for burst dps where the person on the recieving end has no counter to prevent it, just hope that cc break works in a timely manner (which it doesnt half the time). These two abilities are not well balanced like the other 3 are from the other classes.

Ezareth

Fear is fine.....*IF* you can break free of it instantly like every other CC.

Currently it is bugged so that this isn't the case. Fix that and I think it is fine. No issues with NBs having a powerful CC.

Snit

Neighbor wrote: »

I've held back. I've tried be reasonable.

You began the thread with, "anyone who disagrees is wrong." It's the first sentence of your first post. That is the precise opposite of reasoned debate.

Gorthax

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

Make power overload have 50-250 ultimate to use like every other ult in the game, not 1000

You can store up to 1000 ultimate, always have been able to.

Yes but if you hit any other ultimate it drops to 0, with power ultimate you can work off of a ln ultimate pool of 80-1000 making it op

It is reflectable, it can be dodged, it can be blocked, it can be absorbed. Stop being bad and learn to get around it(for the record, I dont even use over load in my build; it might be strong but not worth it to me). I assure you that a vast majority of the QQ's about sorcs come from people who

A) Still try to bash people to death (yea its a thing still, people are stuck in 1.1)
B ) think play your way means everything is viable
C ) Dont have the patience to learn to time a good cc,
D) Dont run any CC on their bar or
E ) refuse to use block

My shields drop faster than I can keep them up most the time. I die a lot but I also kill alot and I am not a bad sorc. I dont run the traditional "look at me I followed someone elses build video" build. I made my own, I made it viable and I wreck stuff. If it wasnt for my shields and bolt escape I wouldnt live at all. It would be free AP for everyone. Most sorc skills are reflectable, removed from cc break (even if they arent a cc i.e. curse), DoT, cc, or two of our single target skills Mages wrath and crystal frags. Thats not accounting for pets or dark exchange or the buff we get. Now lets compare all that to every other classes single target skills which are BETTER than sorcs, their DoTs which, again, are better than sorcs, or heals....which again is better than sorcs.

So tell me again why we shouldnt have mobility and defense when that is all we have going for us. Or was the point I made about free AP what everyone is actually after. Enough is enough. sorcs have been on the bottom of the list for a LONG time and only skilled players werent free AP for everyone, and even then people STILL cried to nerf us. Now that the skilled players are given slightly better tools (increased damage to curse and frags) and the skill those players carried with them into the new changes of 1.6 make them outshine every other wanna be sorc, people are calling for nerfs again.

I do not like tossing out the L2P statement, as that was what was tossed out at me when I first started pvp'ing, but I got around all my QQ issues when I started pvp many many months ago and I got better. I earned skill with my sorc. Now that my skill shines better in 1.6 everyone wants nerf nerf nerf nerf. I just wish this would end lol I have been here with my sorc since day 1 and all it has ever been was nerf nerf nerf nerf when it came to sorc and ZoS just keeps listening. The only time it wasnt aimed at sorc was once Sypher and friends figured out the most OP DK build ever. Then it was nerf nerf nerf on that.

Until ZoS stops listening to this community about what to nerf, we will never have balance. Even then I dont think we will ever have the type of balance everyone wants lol End of story

I want to point out that there are plenty of ultimates that do the same thing as far as blocking, dodging, reflect.. And do less damage then overload

100% correct, but overload is something that sorcs apparently need. Crystal frags and overload. The only two unreliable skills that they use to be reliable when it can be. take those two skills away from a sorc and you will NEVER find a viable build for sorcs lol ones that play support sure. Viable outside of support no. That be my opinion and I main a sorc. Finding a original build or any build outside of curse frag overload combo is damn near impossible sadly.

cozmon3c_ESO

i dont use overload

Stamden

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

TheBucket wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Here is why they are out of balance, they are instant cast and cannot be blocked or dodge rolled.

counters
Immovable: nerfed into uselessness during the pts. i know because i used to use it. Not valid for magicka users anymore.
Imovable Pot: nice pot and yes it gives you cc immunity but this is where it fails against a NB. i have to use Detect pots just to fight a night blade or they will just be invisible the entire time. or i have to use a immovable pot. so it comes down to being offensive or defensive. well hell i dont want to be on the defensive with immovable pot because i want to kill this invising fool, so i will choose a detect pot. why is night blade the only class i have to use pots against to win a fight with???? answer me that.

the way to fix this imbalance is to make it so all abilities that bypass block or dodgeroll to cc to have a cast time or long animation that is avoidable. templar, sorc have one, cast time or long animation. nightblades have 2 one isntant cast and the other cast time. dk's have 1 instant cast. templars is instant cast spear shards but its avoidable and takes skill to hit people with it, unlike the dk's petrify which takes zero skill to use (zos and thier dk love), infact fear takes zero skill to use too. i guess thats my problem with those skills is there lack of counters on the fly. sorc you can interrupt the cast, Templars you can avoid the ground aoe. Ramble ramble ramble...

You use a potion to help your fight. You don't need it. There are tons of other ways to counter stealth. You're just currently not built for it because you choose to. I build my NB to counter the strongest PvP class to me and that's Sorcs.

You put a cast time on fear, and you make it useless. Our one use-able CC already has a cast time on it, and if it didn't I would actually use it over fear because it has a range that is more useful to my class.

I would also gladly give fear up if my Shadow Cloak had the same mechanics as Ball of Lightning.

I'm not here to compare classes, but fear is far from over powered. It's not even the strongest ability in the game at the moment.

I guess you have more of an issue with Stamina NB's using Fear, because it does take skill to use Fear as a magic nightblade. I have to use Teleport Strike to get in range to even use my fear, and back out immediately because I'm wearing LA and my only shield is HW.

As a Stamina NB, you cast fear twice in a row, and you're out of magic. So you have to pick and choose when to use it.

Immovable is far from useless as well. CC immunity in this game where you can die in .5 seconds from one CC is far from useless.

um you can cast fear through cloak..... not really a loss for NB. Dk's dont really suffer from getting bursted ever so a cast time will not really hinder them at all. and im looking for something like a 1.0 second cast time, nothing serious but something counterable, take some skill and timing to get off. these abilities set up the caster for burst dps where the person on the recieving end has no counter to prevent it, just hope that cc break works in a timely manner (which it doesnt half the time). These two abilities are not well balanced like the other 3 are from the other classes.

You think fear should have a cast time but not shields? Oh the hypocrisy.

Xsorus

Tankqull wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Actually, I'd like to see dots either ignore shields or do about half damage through them.
This would make dot builds useful again while providing a counter to shields

dots do full unmitigated dmg, bleeds do not but there are only two bleeds in use as far as i know (1.style of 2h and DW + random axe bleed procs)

I mean ignore the shield completely.

Saying dots do full unmitigated damage is pointless..all damage does that against shields.

Xsorus

Tankqull wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

i can count the good sorcs that are as good or better then me on one hand as well, i fight them all the time.

Teargrants
Prett
Derra
Saber Ali (when he was a sorc)

and the ones i play with
Erkon Quietus
Vae Exillis
(these two guys do amazing things)

Why exactly is this relevant to the discussion?

Are you relevant to this discussion? you're argueing with some of the best players in the game about class balance, who are you again? I dont see the best players of Templar, NB, and DK coming in here and complaining about Sorcs. you know why, because they can kill a sorc. they realize that they can build a stronger build on the other classes then a Magicka Based sorc can even reach. Why do you think Saber Ali became a night blade (probably the best ive fought against yet). Your crusade needs to end buddy because only really bad players cant kill a sorc and i get killed by bad players all teh time that just sit in the back and snipe from stealth. Good day.

Old school Wabbajack DK, before your time. Anyway, I'm not saying you can't kill a Sorc, I kill Sorcs all the time, that's not the problem. The problem is that between BE and shield spam, they take way too long to go down. Even if you do get them in a 1v1 situation, they will prolong the fight and move to the nearest group of enemies until your outnumbered. Then in group play Sorcs are by far the best class just due to their high mobility and ranged damage. Having the best escape in the game also means they can survive longer then anyone else. Not dying = Not having to travel back = More time spent gaining AP. They are the superior AvA class overall.

ROFL
coming from the class with the highest survivability sinc beta being able to extend fights for hours to be sure to recieve reinforcements to never lose a fight.
blaming a nother class doing the same...

So........You're saying a Sorc is like an Old School DK?

akray21

Erock25 wrote: »

NBs are more overpowered than Sorc, thanks.

LOL

Stamden

Snit wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

I've held back. I've tried be reasonable.

You began the thread with, "anyone who disagrees is wrong." It's the first sentence of your first post. That is the precise opposite of reasoned debate.

Cause the whole point of this thread was to discuss reasonable ways to tone down Sorcs. There is a million other threads were people can debate about if they think Sorcs are OP or not. This thread was supposed to be for the people who have common sense. Unfortunately the "I need to stay OP to play" clique of Sorcs came here and started spewing their gibberish.

CP5

Neighbor wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

I've held back. I've tried be reasonable.

You began the thread with, "anyone who disagrees is wrong." It's the first sentence of your first post. That is the precise opposite of reasoned debate.

Cause the whole point of this thread was to discuss reasonable ways to tone down Sorcs. There is a million other threads were people can debate about if they think Sorcs are OP or not. This thread was supposed to be for the people who have common sense. Unfortunately the "I need to stay OP to play" clique of Sorcs came here and started spewing their gibberish.

If you don't mind me asking, what else does the sorcerer class even have? Yes, they buffed sorcerer burst damage in 1.6 despite saying otherwise, and yes all classes that specialize on one resource got a massive spike in power with the removal of the soft caps, but does this class have anything aside from bursting and the ability to troll players? The burst is easily mitigated or even reflected, and if a sorc is running you can either spec to chase them down or just let them run, but thinking a class is overpowered when you play into their hands, fail to exploit their weaknesses or counter their strengths isn't going to win you much support.

Ezareth

Neighbor wrote: »

Cause the whole point of this thread was to discuss reasonable ways to tone down Sorcs. There is a million other threads were people can debate about if they think Sorcs are OP or not. This thread was supposed to be for the people who have common sense. Unfortunately the "I need to stay OP to play" clique of Sorcs came here and started spewing their gibberish.

Neighbor wrote: »

Sorcerers are clearly the most dominate class in PvP.
Wether you judge off playing the game, popular opinion, leaderboards, etc; their dominance is indisputable and this post is not here to debate about it.
This post is in regards to reasonable way to tone down the class while keeping them viable.

You started the thread sounding like Al Gore deciding how much the world should pay him because weather patterns are unpredictable.

Don't get upset that there are many people who disagree with you, and not just sorcs. Your opinion is not science and it sure as hell isn't "common sense". You've done nothing but make laughably absurd assumptions and suggestions throughout this entire thread, and now you're upset that people don't find value in anything you say?

Hell for all I know you're the VR2 Tyro Nightblade who keeps spamming lethal arrow on me time and time again while taking overloads to the face. You've already proven that you don't even know your own class, so why do you think your opinion on *another* class is worth anything? How is it that not a single good Nightblade that posts on these forums that I know is actually good(there are many) is here agreeing with you?

I'd much rather spend my time discussing real issues like unlimited resources with intelligence informed players instead of wasting my time debating the same 5 or 6 nerfherders who spend all day filling up the forum with Sorc QQ.

If you spent half as much time learning to play in Cyrodiil as you spend crying on these forums this issue would have resolved itself long ago. Enough is enough.

MoneyOverEverything

ok, only one thing left to say

reroll breton sorc if you havent got one

thx kk bb

Ezareth

MoneyOverEverything wrote: »

ok, only one thing left to say

reroll breton sorc if you havent got one

thx kk bb

Why Breton over Altmer?

Altmer Master Race.