How to balance Sorcs

Satiar

I'm an awesome NB and i think Sorcs are OP as hell.

But, too many active sorcs on the forums for me to complain too much. Just every now and again.

SafiyerAmitora

Ezareth wrote: »

MoneyOverEverything wrote: »

ok, only one thing left to say

reroll breton sorc if you havent got one

thx kk bb

Why Breton over Altmer?

Altmer Master Race.

Altmer FTW.

Stamden

Satiar wrote: »

I'm an awesome NB and i think Sorcs are OP as hell.

But, too many active sorcs on the forums for me to complain too much. Just every now and again.

That's originally how I was too and I'm sure how most non-sorcs feel. Really it shouldn't be something we have to state. If Zenimax had developers play PvP they would come to that conclusion on their own.

Xsorus

Neighbor wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

I'm an awesome NB and i think Sorcs are OP as hell.

But, too many active sorcs on the forums for me to complain too much. Just every now and again.

That's originally how I was too and I'm sure how most non-sorcs feel. Really it shouldn't be something we have to state. If Zenimax had developers play PvP they would come to that conclusion on their own.

I'm of the opinion that it's pointless to argue with most sorcs right now, they'll claim they are perfectly fine right up until they get nerfed.

I mean Christ, ezareth tried to argue they were fine cause he died to a bugged shooting star against me.

TheElementalPlatypus

I appreciate everyone's 10 pages of laughs here, quite nice

But there are a few things I would like to point out -
1. DK magic vamps are still VERY viable, some of the best DK's around are running them....
2. Magic NB is one of the worst builds all around right now... so comparing that to sorcs is NOT sufficient as magic NB SUCKS
3. Stamina builds can kill sorcs a LOT easier than magic, because we have 1 shield against stam, 2 against magic giving us an extra defense boost inherently.
4. OTHER classes can be JUST as tanky, I can't kill a LOT of DK's who are SUPER tanky, I can't kill some templars who PERMABLOCK.
5. You dont see a lot of GOOD players coming here complaining because in actuality SORC IS FINE, I NEVER get qq from a stamina build.... never... its ALWAYS the magic complaining about my shields.
6. OP played a 1.5 DK facerolling everything with sorcs being free kills, so as soon as is takes BRAINS or COMPETENCE to kill a sorc... everyone complains... nothing new here.

Septimus_Magna

TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »

I appreciate everyone's 10 pages of laughs here, quite nice

But there are a few things I would like to point out -
1. DK magic vamps are still VERY viable, some of the best DK's around are running them....
2. Magic NB is one of the worst builds all around right now... so comparing that to sorcs is NOT sufficient as magic NB SUCKS
3. Stamina builds can kill sorcs a LOT easier than magic, because we have 1 shield against stam, 2 against magic giving us an extra defense boost inherently.
4. OTHER classes can be JUST as tanky, I can't kill a LOT of DK's who are SUPER tanky, I can't kill some templars who PERMABLOCK.
5. You dont see a lot of GOOD players coming here complaining because in actuality SORC IS FINE, I NEVER get qq from a stamina build.... never... its ALWAYS the magic complaining about my shields.
6. OP played a 1.5 DK facerolling everything with sorcs being free kills, so as soon as is takes BRAINS or COMPETENCE to kill a sorc... everyone complains... nothing new here.

As a sorc I still find it hard to beat good DKs 1v1, they reflect everything except curse (low dps), mages fury (execute) and storm atronach (ultimate). My stamina is gone really quickly with attacks that need to be blocked and breaking free from CC, while I cant do any solid dps without hitting myself.

How about learn to play if you roll a DK?

Jahosefat

Satiar wrote: »

But, too many active sorcs on the forums for me to complain too much. Just every now and again.

Epeens seem to have fully engorged over the past couple months; to a point of stifling any real conversation in these forums on the subject of balance. Everything must be perfect then right?

I think it's like real life; very defensive = very insecure If you need to make a bunch of posts defending something, it's a good hint that there is a problem somewhere. But maybe I'm wrong and ESO has attained what no other human creation has ever reached... perfection.

Stamden

Satiar wrote: »

I'm an awesome NB and i think Sorcs are OP as hell.

But, too many active sorcs on the forums for me to complain too much. Just every now and again.

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »

I appreciate everyone's 10 pages of laughs here, quite nice

But there are a few things I would like to point out -
1. DK magic vamps are still VERY viable, some of the best DK's around are running them....
2. Magic NB is one of the worst builds all around right now... so comparing that to sorcs is NOT sufficient as magic NB SUCKS
3. Stamina builds can kill sorcs a LOT easier than magic, because we have 1 shield against stam, 2 against magic giving us an extra defense boost inherently.
4. OTHER classes can be JUST as tanky, I can't kill a LOT of DK's who are SUPER tanky, I can't kill some templars who PERMABLOCK.
5. You dont see a lot of GOOD players coming here complaining because in actuality SORC IS FINE, I NEVER get qq from a stamina build.... never... its ALWAYS the magic complaining about my shields.
6. OP played a 1.5 DK facerolling everything with sorcs being free kills, so as soon as is takes BRAINS or COMPETENCE to kill a sorc... everyone complains... nothing new here.

As a sorc I still find it hard to beat good DKs 1v1, they reflect everything except curse (low dps), mages fury (execute) and storm atronach (ultimate). My stamina is gone really quickly with attacks that need to be blocked and breaking free from CC, while I cant do any solid dps without hitting myself.

How about learn to play if you roll a DK?

Sorcs are about the only things caster DKs will be killing. They are terrible against anything else cause light armor w/o mobility and shields is bad. Even Sorcs can just BE away and you can't chase em.

Snit

Neighbor wrote: »

Sorcs are about the only things caster DKs will be killing. They are terrible against anything else cause light armor w/o mobility and shields is bad. Even Sorcs can just BE away and you can't chase em.

That's true.

I have seen a few very good caster DK's recently. All of them have been vampires. That comes with its own set of problems, but Undeath and Elusive Mist seem fill their build's gaps reasonably well. Without vampirism, however, they're immobile and squishy.

Ezareth

Snit wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Sorcs are about the only things caster DKs will be killing. They are terrible against anything else cause light armor w/o mobility and shields is bad. Even Sorcs can just BE away and you can't chase em.

That's true.

I have seen a few very good caster DK's recently. All of them have been vampires. That comes with its own set of problems, but Undeath and Elusive Mist seem fill their build's gaps reasonably well. Without vampirism, however, they're immobile and squishy.

I've seen one good Magicka DK since 1.6. This probably has more to do with Stamina DKs with 2-handers in particular being too damn good than Magicka DKs actually being bad.

Ezareth

Considering that all Nerf posts other than Nerf Sorc posts have been locked for "Trolling" I hereby dub these forums "The Nerf Sorc" forums.

Stamden

Ezareth wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Sorcs are about the only things caster DKs will be killing. They are terrible against anything else cause light armor w/o mobility and shields is bad. Even Sorcs can just BE away and you can't chase em.

That's true.

I have seen a few very good caster DK's recently. All of them have been vampires. That comes with its own set of problems, but Undeath and Elusive Mist seem fill their build's gaps reasonably well. Without vampirism, however, they're immobile and squishy.

I've seen one good Magicka DK since 1.6. This probably has more to do with Stamina DKs with 2-handers in particular being too damn good than Magicka DKs actually being bad.

It's a problem with all magika builds. As I've said, the problem wth buffing magika builds is that it would make Sorcs even more OP, so they can't buff them yet. Until Sorcs get nerfed all other magika builds are getting held back.

Huckdabuck

[...]

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

rfennell_ESO

Neighbor wrote: »

It's a problem with all magika builds. As I've said, the problem wth buffing magika builds is that it would make Sorcs even more OP, so they can't buff them yet. Until Sorcs get nerfed all other magika builds are getting held back.

Actually upping the armor value of light armor wouldn't help nearly as much as you think for sorcs as hardened ward is not affected by armor rating or spell resist. Light armor is the main culprit in lack of magikca builds.

Stamden

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

It's a problem with all magika builds. As I've said, the problem wth buffing magika builds is that it would make Sorcs even more OP, so they can't buff them yet. Until Sorcs get nerfed all other magika builds are getting held back.

Actually upping the armor value of light armor wouldn't help nearly as much as you think for sorcs as hardened ward is not affected by armor rating or spell resist. Light armor is the main culprit in lack of magikca builds.

When did I ever mention armor values?

Derra

Satiar wrote: »

I'm an awesome NB and i think Sorcs are OP as hell.

But, too many active sorcs on the forums for me to complain too much. Just every now and again.

I´m an awesome sorc and i think NBs (stamina admittedly) are OP as hell.

But following the great ages of whining after the games release NBs have become so defensive and stuck in the mindset of "all important abilities are broken" make complaining about them a suicide mission.

nothing2591

Im the self proclaimed best nightblade EU and i think sorcs are where they should be. Having said that i still think stamina in general is op since with 2 nirnhoned, 5 medium 1 light 1 heavy im at 22k spell resist om my stam nightblade and the only thing hitting me while dodgerolling is curse and that doesnt even hurt, they need to rework the whole dodge rolling mechanic, somehow. BUT on my sorc with full light im at 3531 armor unbuffed, light and medium should counter each other so that i would be at 3k spell resist on my stam nb

Tankqull

Derra wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

I'm an awesome NB and i think Sorcs are OP as hell.

But, too many active sorcs on the forums for me to complain too much. Just every now and again.

I´m an awesome sorc and i think NBs (stamina admittedly) are OP as hell.

But following the great ages of whining after the games release NBs have become so defensive and stuck in the mindset of "all important abilities are broken" make complaining about them a suicide mission.

reroll one as i do currently :P i´m nearly done and the proposed changes to vigor come in handy to render the only slight disadvantage to be gone...

Tankqull

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

i can count the good sorcs that are as good or better then me on one hand as well, i fight them all the time.

Teargrants
Prett
Derra
Saber Ali (when he was a sorc)

and the ones i play with
Erkon Quietus
Vae Exillis
(these two guys do amazing things)

Why exactly is this relevant to the discussion?

Are you relevant to this discussion? you're argueing with some of the best players in the game about class balance, who are you again? I dont see the best players of Templar, NB, and DK coming in here and complaining about Sorcs. you know why, because they can kill a sorc. they realize that they can build a stronger build on the other classes then a Magicka Based sorc can even reach. Why do you think Saber Ali became a night blade (probably the best ive fought against yet). Your crusade needs to end buddy because only really bad players cant kill a sorc and i get killed by bad players all teh time that just sit in the back and snipe from stealth. Good day.

Old school Wabbajack DK, before your time. Anyway, I'm not saying you can't kill a Sorc, I kill Sorcs all the time, that's not the problem. The problem is that between BE and shield spam, they take way too long to go down. Even if you do get them in a 1v1 situation, they will prolong the fight and move to the nearest group of enemies until your outnumbered. Then in group play Sorcs are by far the best class just due to their high mobility and ranged damage. Having the best escape in the game also means they can survive longer then anyone else. Not dying = Not having to travel back = More time spent gaining AP. They are the superior AvA class overall.

ROFL
coming from the class with the highest survivability sinc beta being able to extend fights for hours to be sure to recieve reinforcements to never lose a fight.
blaming a nother class doing the same...

So........You're saying a Sorc is like an Old School DK?

no i´m saying he is pissed of beeing unable to kill a fleeing sorc.

Lava_Croft

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

So........You're saying a Sorc is like an Old School DK?

Sorcerers are worse. Old skool (or new school) Dragon Knights have no escape skill, so they'd always end up dying sooner or later.

Stamden

nothing2591 wrote: »

Im the self proclaimed best nightblade EU and i think sorcs are where they should be. Having said that i still think stamina in general is op since with 2 nirnhoned, 5 medium 1 light 1 heavy im at 22k spell resist om my stam nightblade and the only thing hitting me while dodgerolling is curse and that doesnt even hurt, they need to rework the whole dodge rolling mechanic, somehow. BUT on my sorc with full light im at 3531 armor unbuffed, light and medium should counter each other so that i would be at 3k spell resist on my stam nb

Probably a Sorc lmao.

rfennell_ESO

Neighbor wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

It's a problem with all magika builds. As I've said, the problem wth buffing magika builds is that it would make Sorcs even more OP, so they can't buff them yet. Until Sorcs get nerfed all other magika builds are getting held back.

Actually upping the armor value of light armor wouldn't help nearly as much as you think for sorcs as hardened ward is not affected by armor rating or spell resist. Light armor is the main culprit in lack of magikca builds.

When did I ever mention armor values?

Well, it has become clear you don't follow much. But the biggest issue for magicka builds is the lack of defense from armor, particularly physical resist. Light armor is the culprit, specifically how little armor it gives you. Full light armor nets you some ridiculously low number on armor rating (like 4k). If you do not have a decent amount of cp, you will have to go light armor to be a magicka build. Obviously to get the full bonus from light armor is suicidal as you take way too much damage. Even with going 5l 2h you end up with half the defenses of medium (which can just go 7m and not be tissue in a firestorm).

It's likely the primary reason why you don't see many magicka builds in pvp right now. The exception is obviously sorcs, which through their hardened ward can mitigate much of the problems of light armor.

You choose to try and make the argument that magicka builds are all being held back by sorcerer strength (a somewhat childish attempt to "rally" any wannabe magicka builds to your cause). The culprit is certainly not sorcs, it's the tissue paper defense of light armor; this is compounded by the fact that magicka builds are heavily in need of the light armor passives to operate.

You continually either ignore any rationale explanations to your tirades or try to dismiss them as sorcs are op. Sorcs merely do not suffer the serious limitations of light armor as drastically as other classes. Increasing light armor defense would not particularly help sorcs, but it would help everyone else.

Earlier in the thread you complained I never responded to the endless stream of nonsense you keep spewing about sorcerers. I did, and I doubt you even bothered reading it. You just went back to making claims that are nothing but the opinion of a poor speller that doesn't know this game very well past the assumption that nightblades and medium armor stamina builds should be able to kill everyone.

It's become tedious to even bother with your constant accusations, only to find the same regurgitated things being parroted by people that unknowingly fall under the banner of "L2P" as the only retort that is reasonable.

In case you don't know there was a time where light armor passives were the only passives worthwhile. Medium and Heavy armor passives were gradually buffed and light armor was nerfed. Medium has far surpassed light armor in value and heavy has come close, meanwhile the "need" for light armor for magicka builds remained high.

All you need to do is look at the current state of pvp in cyro. I'd take a guess at roughly 75% of people engaging in it are in medium armor now. To that you say "nerf sorcs", which I can only interpret as you don't think that 75% number is high enough and it ought be 90%.

Xsorus

Tankqull wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

i can count the good sorcs that are as good or better then me on one hand as well, i fight them all the time.

Teargrants
Prett
Derra
Saber Ali (when he was a sorc)

and the ones i play with
Erkon Quietus
Vae Exillis
(these two guys do amazing things)

Why exactly is this relevant to the discussion?

Are you relevant to this discussion? you're argueing with some of the best players in the game about class balance, who are you again? I dont see the best players of Templar, NB, and DK coming in here and complaining about Sorcs. you know why, because they can kill a sorc. they realize that they can build a stronger build on the other classes then a Magicka Based sorc can even reach. Why do you think Saber Ali became a night blade (probably the best ive fought against yet). Your crusade needs to end buddy because only really bad players cant kill a sorc and i get killed by bad players all teh time that just sit in the back and snipe from stealth. Good day.

Old school Wabbajack DK, before your time. Anyway, I'm not saying you can't kill a Sorc, I kill Sorcs all the time, that's not the problem. The problem is that between BE and shield spam, they take way too long to go down. Even if you do get them in a 1v1 situation, they will prolong the fight and move to the nearest group of enemies until your outnumbered. Then in group play Sorcs are by far the best class just due to their high mobility and ranged damage. Having the best escape in the game also means they can survive longer then anyone else. Not dying = Not having to travel back = More time spent gaining AP. They are the superior AvA class overall.

ROFL
coming from the class with the highest survivability sinc beta being able to extend fights for hours to be sure to recieve reinforcements to never lose a fight.
blaming a nother class doing the same...

So........You're saying a Sorc is like an Old School DK?

no i´m saying he is pissed of beeing unable to kill a fleeing sorc.

By comparing sorcs to old school dks...
So if you think dks are overpowered right now, which if I look in the poll threads I'm sure you guys voted dk, then you must think sorcs are stronger then dks since the current dk is weaker then old school dks

TheElementalPlatypus

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

It's a problem with all magika builds. As I've said, the problem wth buffing magika builds is that it would make Sorcs even more OP, so they can't buff them yet. Until Sorcs get nerfed all other magika builds are getting held back.

Actually upping the armor value of light armor wouldn't help nearly as much as you think for sorcs as hardened ward is not affected by armor rating or spell resist. Light armor is the main culprit in lack of magikca builds.

When did I ever mention armor values?

Well, it has become clear you don't follow much. But the biggest issue for magicka builds is the lack of defense from armor, particularly physical resist. Light armor is the culprit, specifically how little armor it gives you. Full light armor nets you some ridiculously low number on armor rating (like 4k). If you do not have a decent amount of cp, you will have to go light armor to be a magicka build. Obviously to get the full bonus from light armor is suicidal as you take way too much damage. Even with going 5l 2h you end up with half the defenses of medium (which can just go 7m and not be tissue in a firestorm).

It's likely the primary reason why you don't see many magicka builds in pvp right now. The exception is obviously sorcs, which through their hardened ward can mitigate much of the problems of light armor.

You choose to try and make the argument that magicka builds are all being held back by sorcerer strength (a somewhat childish attempt to "rally" any wannabe magicka builds to your cause). The culprit is certainly not sorcs, it's the tissue paper defense of light armor; this is compounded by the fact that magicka builds are heavily in need of the light armor passives to operate.

You continually either ignore any rationale explanations to your tirades or try to dismiss them as sorcs are op. Sorcs merely do not suffer the serious limitations of light armor as drastically as other classes. Increasing light armor defense would not particularly help sorcs, but it would help everyone else.

Earlier in the thread you complained I never responded to the endless stream of nonsense you keep spewing about sorcerers. I did, and I doubt you even bothered reading it. You just went back to making claims that are nothing but the opinion of a poor speller that doesn't know this game very well past the assumption that nightblades and medium armor stamina builds should be able to kill everyone.

It's become tedious to even bother with your constant accusations, only to find the same regurgitated things being parroted by people that unknowingly fall under the banner of "L2P" as the only retort that is reasonable.

In case you don't know there was a time where light armor passives were the only passives worthwhile. Medium and Heavy armor passives were gradually buffed and light armor was nerfed. Medium has far surpassed light armor in value and heavy has come close, meanwhile the "need" for light armor for magicka builds remained high.

All you need to do is look at the current state of pvp in cyro. I'd take a guess at roughly 75% of people engaging in it are in medium armor now. To that you say "nerf sorcs", which I can only interpret as you don't think that 75% number is high enough and it ought be 90%.

Words spoken so truly, OP is angry he cant faceroll sorcs with his class anymore as he can dk/templar.

Tankqull

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

i can count the good sorcs that are as good or better then me on one hand as well, i fight them all the time.

Teargrants
Prett
Derra
Saber Ali (when he was a sorc)

and the ones i play with
Erkon Quietus
Vae Exillis
(these two guys do amazing things)

Why exactly is this relevant to the discussion?

Are you relevant to this discussion? you're argueing with some of the best players in the game about class balance, who are you again? I dont see the best players of Templar, NB, and DK coming in here and complaining about Sorcs. you know why, because they can kill a sorc. they realize that they can build a stronger build on the other classes then a Magicka Based sorc can even reach. Why do you think Saber Ali became a night blade (probably the best ive fought against yet). Your crusade needs to end buddy because only really bad players cant kill a sorc and i get killed by bad players all teh time that just sit in the back and snipe from stealth. Good day.

Old school Wabbajack DK, before your time. Anyway, I'm not saying you can't kill a Sorc, I kill Sorcs all the time, that's not the problem. The problem is that between BE and shield spam, they take way too long to go down. Even if you do get them in a 1v1 situation, they will prolong the fight and move to the nearest group of enemies until your outnumbered. Then in group play Sorcs are by far the best class just due to their high mobility and ranged damage. Having the best escape in the game also means they can survive longer then anyone else. Not dying = Not having to travel back = More time spent gaining AP. They are the superior AvA class overall.

ROFL
coming from the class with the highest survivability sinc beta being able to extend fights for hours to be sure to recieve reinforcements to never lose a fight.
blaming a nother class doing the same...

So........You're saying a Sorc is like an Old School DK?

no i´m saying he is pissed of beeing unable to kill a fleeing sorc.

By comparing sorcs to old school dks...
So if you think dks are overpowered right now, which if I look in the poll threads I'm sure you guys voted dk, then you must think sorcs are stronger then dks since the current dk is weaker then old school dks

i voted for NBs (stamina to be precise), but i feel DKs in small number fights still prety strong but you are right they lost alot of ther overwhelming overpowerdness due to 1.6 changes but they are still stronger than temps and en pair with sorcs from my pov.(especially when the sorc bugs are getting fixed - like multiple frag procs stacking...)

Ezareth

Tankqull wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

i can count the good sorcs that are as good or better then me on one hand as well, i fight them all the time.

Teargrants
Prett
Derra
Saber Ali (when he was a sorc)

and the ones i play with
Erkon Quietus
Vae Exillis
(these two guys do amazing things)

Why exactly is this relevant to the discussion?

Are you relevant to this discussion? you're argueing with some of the best players in the game about class balance, who are you again? I dont see the best players of Templar, NB, and DK coming in here and complaining about Sorcs. you know why, because they can kill a sorc. they realize that they can build a stronger build on the other classes then a Magicka Based sorc can even reach. Why do you think Saber Ali became a night blade (probably the best ive fought against yet). Your crusade needs to end buddy because only really bad players cant kill a sorc and i get killed by bad players all teh time that just sit in the back and snipe from stealth. Good day.

Old school Wabbajack DK, before your time. Anyway, I'm not saying you can't kill a Sorc, I kill Sorcs all the time, that's not the problem. The problem is that between BE and shield spam, they take way too long to go down. Even if you do get them in a 1v1 situation, they will prolong the fight and move to the nearest group of enemies until your outnumbered. Then in group play Sorcs are by far the best class just due to their high mobility and ranged damage. Having the best escape in the game also means they can survive longer then anyone else. Not dying = Not having to travel back = More time spent gaining AP. They are the superior AvA class overall.

ROFL
coming from the class with the highest survivability sinc beta being able to extend fights for hours to be sure to recieve reinforcements to never lose a fight.
blaming a nother class doing the same...

So........You're saying a Sorc is like an Old School DK?

no i´m saying he is pissed of beeing unable to kill a fleeing sorc.

By comparing sorcs to old school dks...
So if you think dks are overpowered right now, which if I look in the poll threads I'm sure you guys voted dk, then you must think sorcs are stronger then dks since the current dk is weaker then old school dks

i voted for NBs (stamina to be precise), but i feel DKs in small number fights still prety strong but you are right they lost alot of ther overwhelming overpowerdness due to 1.6 changes but they are still stronger than temps and en pair with sorcs from my pov.(especially when the sorc bugs are getting fixed - like multiple frag procs stacking...)

If light armor wasn't nerfed so hard, Magicka DKs would be every bit as powerful as they were in 1.5.

Light armor is just garbage and the fact they gave everyone bonus magick resist with 1.6 (except light armor) made overall magic damage even lower.

You can't reason with the OP. He's probably the L56 NB I just gibbed with my L14 NB.

Stamden

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

It's a problem with all magika builds. As I've said, the problem wth buffing magika builds is that it would make Sorcs even more OP, so they can't buff them yet. Until Sorcs get nerfed all other magika builds are getting held back.

Actually upping the armor value of light armor wouldn't help nearly as much as you think for sorcs as hardened ward is not affected by armor rating or spell resist. Light armor is the main culprit in lack of magikca builds.

When did I ever mention armor values?

Well, it has become clear you don't follow much. But the biggest issue for magicka builds is the lack of defense from armor, particularly physical resist. Light armor is the culprit, specifically how little armor it gives you. Full light armor nets you some ridiculously low number on armor rating (like 4k). If you do not have a decent amount of cp, you will have to go light armor to be a magicka build. Obviously to get the full bonus from light armor is suicidal as you take way too much damage. Even with going 5l 2h you end up with half the defenses of medium (which can just go 7m and not be tissue in a firestorm).

It's likely the primary reason why you don't see many magicka builds in pvp right now. The exception is obviously sorcs, which through their hardened ward can mitigate much of the problems of light armor.

You choose to try and make the argument that magicka builds are all being held back by sorcerer strength (a somewhat childish attempt to "rally" any wannabe magicka builds to your cause). The culprit is certainly not sorcs, it's the tissue paper defense of light armor; this is compounded by the fact that magicka builds are heavily in need of the light armor passives to operate.

You continually either ignore any rationale explanations to your tirades or try to dismiss them as sorcs are op. Sorcs merely do not suffer the serious limitations of light armor as drastically as other classes. Increasing light armor defense would not particularly help sorcs, but it would help everyone else.

Earlier in the thread you complained I never responded to the endless stream of nonsense you keep spewing about sorcerers. I did, and I doubt you even bothered reading it. You just went back to making claims that are nothing but the opinion of a poor speller that doesn't know this game very well past the assumption that nightblades and medium armor stamina builds should be able to kill everyone.

It's become tedious to even bother with your constant accusations, only to find the same regurgitated things being parroted by people that unknowingly fall under the banner of "L2P" as the only retort that is reasonable.

In case you don't know there was a time where light armor passives were the only passives worthwhile. Medium and Heavy armor passives were gradually buffed and light armor was nerfed. Medium has far surpassed light armor in value and heavy has come close, meanwhile the "need" for light armor for magicka builds remained high.

All you need to do is look at the current state of pvp in cyro. I'd take a guess at roughly 75% of people engaging in it are in medium armor now. To that you say "nerf sorcs", which I can only interpret as you don't think that 75% number is high enough and it ought be 90%.

I would actually be fine with buffing light armor in that way if they nerfed shields accordingly. If you buff light armor w/o nerfing shields then you just made Sorcs even harder to kill.

TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »

Words spoken so truly, OP is angry he cant faceroll sorcs with his class anymore as he can dk/templar.

Yes because back when DKs were OP they had a blink and could catch up to Sorcs..

Seriously though, at no point could any class "faceroll" sorcs. Best case scenrio has always been to make one run away. Now they simply don't need to run away unless it is 1v5 or more.

Ezareth wrote: »

You can't reason with the OP. He's probably the L56 NB I just gibbed with my L14 NB.

You just said it was "The Nerf Sorc" forums. Either I am an idiot or the whole forums are an idiot, you chose. All I have to say is that there is a reason everyone complains about Sorcs.

And don't say I can't be reasoned with. I provide overwelming evidence of why Sorcs are the best AvA class, yet you simply can't see it because you play a Sorc.

ToRelax

Neighbor wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

It's a problem with all magika builds. As I've said, the problem wth buffing magika builds is that it would make Sorcs even more OP, so they can't buff them yet. Until Sorcs get nerfed all other magika builds are getting held back.

Actually upping the armor value of light armor wouldn't help nearly as much as you think for sorcs as hardened ward is not affected by armor rating or spell resist. Light armor is the main culprit in lack of magikca builds.

When did I ever mention armor values?

Well, it has become clear you don't follow much. But the biggest issue for magicka builds is the lack of defense from armor, particularly physical resist. Light armor is the culprit, specifically how little armor it gives you. Full light armor nets you some ridiculously low number on armor rating (like 4k). If you do not have a decent amount of cp, you will have to go light armor to be a magicka build. Obviously to get the full bonus from light armor is suicidal as you take way too much damage. Even with going 5l 2h you end up with half the defenses of medium (which can just go 7m and not be tissue in a firestorm).

It's likely the primary reason why you don't see many magicka builds in pvp right now. The exception is obviously sorcs, which through their hardened ward can mitigate much of the problems of light armor.

You choose to try and make the argument that magicka builds are all being held back by sorcerer strength (a somewhat childish attempt to "rally" any wannabe magicka builds to your cause). The culprit is certainly not sorcs, it's the tissue paper defense of light armor; this is compounded by the fact that magicka builds are heavily in need of the light armor passives to operate.

You continually either ignore any rationale explanations to your tirades or try to dismiss them as sorcs are op. Sorcs merely do not suffer the serious limitations of light armor as drastically as other classes. Increasing light armor defense would not particularly help sorcs, but it would help everyone else.

Earlier in the thread you complained I never responded to the endless stream of nonsense you keep spewing about sorcerers. I did, and I doubt you even bothered reading it. You just went back to making claims that are nothing but the opinion of a poor speller that doesn't know this game very well past the assumption that nightblades and medium armor stamina builds should be able to kill everyone.

It's become tedious to even bother with your constant accusations, only to find the same regurgitated things being parroted by people that unknowingly fall under the banner of "L2P" as the only retort that is reasonable.

In case you don't know there was a time where light armor passives were the only passives worthwhile. Medium and Heavy armor passives were gradually buffed and light armor was nerfed. Medium has far surpassed light armor in value and heavy has come close, meanwhile the "need" for light armor for magicka builds remained high.

All you need to do is look at the current state of pvp in cyro. I'd take a guess at roughly 75% of people engaging in it are in medium armor now. To that you say "nerf sorcs", which I can only interpret as you don't think that 75% number is high enough and it ought be 90%.

I would actually be fine with buffing light armor in that way if they nerfed shields accordingly. If you buff light armor w/o nerfing shields then you just made Sorcs even harder to kill.

True. Does in no way mean Sorcs must be toned down though.

Neighbor wrote: »

TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »

Words spoken so truly, OP is angry he cant faceroll sorcs with his class anymore as he can dk/templar.

Yes because back when DKs were OP they had a blink and could catch up to Sorcs..

Seriously though, at no point could any class "faceroll" sorcs. Best case scenrio has always been to make one run away. Now they simply don't need to run away unless it is 1v5 or more.

If someone can win a 1v4, he was a way better player, regardless of his class... there was not a point since 1.1 that any good player coud win against 2 equally skilled players on his level.

Neighbor wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

You can't reason with the OP. He's probably the L56 NB I just gibbed with my L14 NB.

You just said it was "The Nerf Sorc" forums. Either I am an idiot or the whole forums are an idiot, you chose. All I have to say is that there is a reason everyone complains about Sorcs.

And don't say I can't be reasoned with. I provide overwelming evidence of why Sorcs are the best AvA class, yet you simply can't see it because you play a Sorc.

Let's see...

Neighbor wrote: »

Sorcerers are clearly the most dominate class in PvP. Wether you judge off playing the game, popular opinion, leaderboards, etc; their dominance is indisputable and this post is not here to debate about it. This post is in regards to reasonable way to tone down the class while keeping them viable.
[...]

Yes, overwhelming indeed. You could have a look in that now closed "how to balance NBs" thread to understand the stupidity of basically all your arguments. If you really don't understand how wrong you are.
Also, not the whole forum are idiots, so I guess it must be you... your words .

kewl

Sorcs bugs need to be fixed first.

Stamden

ToRelax wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

It's a problem with all magika builds. As I've said, the problem wth buffing magika builds is that it would make Sorcs even more OP, so they can't buff them yet. Until Sorcs get nerfed all other magika builds are getting held back.

Actually upping the armor value of light armor wouldn't help nearly as much as you think for sorcs as hardened ward is not affected by armor rating or spell resist. Light armor is the main culprit in lack of magikca builds.

When did I ever mention armor values?

Well, it has become clear you don't follow much. But the biggest issue for magicka builds is the lack of defense from armor, particularly physical resist. Light armor is the culprit, specifically how little armor it gives you. Full light armor nets you some ridiculously low number on armor rating (like 4k). If you do not have a decent amount of cp, you will have to go light armor to be a magicka build. Obviously to get the full bonus from light armor is suicidal as you take way too much damage. Even with going 5l 2h you end up with half the defenses of medium (which can just go 7m and not be tissue in a firestorm).

It's likely the primary reason why you don't see many magicka builds in pvp right now. The exception is obviously sorcs, which through their hardened ward can mitigate much of the problems of light armor.

You choose to try and make the argument that magicka builds are all being held back by sorcerer strength (a somewhat childish attempt to "rally" any wannabe magicka builds to your cause). The culprit is certainly not sorcs, it's the tissue paper defense of light armor; this is compounded by the fact that magicka builds are heavily in need of the light armor passives to operate.

You continually either ignore any rationale explanations to your tirades or try to dismiss them as sorcs are op. Sorcs merely do not suffer the serious limitations of light armor as drastically as other classes. Increasing light armor defense would not particularly help sorcs, but it would help everyone else.

Earlier in the thread you complained I never responded to the endless stream of nonsense you keep spewing about sorcerers. I did, and I doubt you even bothered reading it. You just went back to making claims that are nothing but the opinion of a poor speller that doesn't know this game very well past the assumption that nightblades and medium armor stamina builds should be able to kill everyone.

It's become tedious to even bother with your constant accusations, only to find the same regurgitated things being parroted by people that unknowingly fall under the banner of "L2P" as the only retort that is reasonable.

In case you don't know there was a time where light armor passives were the only passives worthwhile. Medium and Heavy armor passives were gradually buffed and light armor was nerfed. Medium has far surpassed light armor in value and heavy has come close, meanwhile the "need" for light armor for magicka builds remained high.

All you need to do is look at the current state of pvp in cyro. I'd take a guess at roughly 75% of people engaging in it are in medium armor now. To that you say "nerf sorcs", which I can only interpret as you don't think that 75% number is high enough and it ought be 90%.

I would actually be fine with buffing light armor in that way if they nerfed shields accordingly. If you buff light armor w/o nerfing shields then you just made Sorcs even harder to kill.

True. Does in no way mean Sorcs must be toned down though.

Neighbor wrote: »

TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »

Words spoken so truly, OP is angry he cant faceroll sorcs with his class anymore as he can dk/templar.

Yes because back when DKs were OP they had a blink and could catch up to Sorcs..

Seriously though, at no point could any class "faceroll" sorcs. Best case scenrio has always been to make one run away. Now they simply don't need to run away unless it is 1v5 or more.

If someone can win a 1v4, he was a way better player, regardless of his class... there was not a point since 1.1 that any good player coud win against 2 equally skilled players on his level.

Neighbor wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

You can't reason with the OP. He's probably the L56 NB I just gibbed with my L14 NB.

You just said it was "The Nerf Sorc" forums. Either I am an idiot or the whole forums are an idiot, you chose. All I have to say is that there is a reason everyone complains about Sorcs.

And don't say I can't be reasoned with. I provide overwelming evidence of why Sorcs are the best AvA class, yet you simply can't see it because you play a Sorc.

Let's see...

Neighbor wrote: »

Sorcerers are clearly the most dominate class in PvP. Wether you judge off playing the game, popular opinion, leaderboards, etc; their dominance is indisputable and this post is not here to debate about it. This post is in regards to reasonable way to tone down the class while keeping them viable.
[...]

Yes, overwhelming indeed. You could have a look in that now closed "how to balance NBs" thread to understand the stupidity of basically all your arguments. If you really don't understand how wrong you are.
Also, not the whole forum are idiots, so I guess it must be you... your words .

I can't believe that your a Sorc and your actually complaining about NBs. That's like a billionaire complaing about paying taxes.