How to balance Sorcs

Satiar

If you want that build talk to Velconn, i tested it with him a lot on PTS and live.

But on single target, attack plus light weave can proc 5k stam return. It's always on my single target bar.

Stamden

SafiyerAmitora wrote: »

If you can't come up with a substantial argument, then don't bother replying.

Alright, here goes.
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Ezareth wrote: »

I just wish there was a higher barrier to entry in the PvP forums. Like you have to pass a game mechanics quiz or something and anything less than a 95% means you are flunked to the Lowbie forums.

Ezareth wrote: »

[ I often wish I had the knowledge of the game that I do today back in launch. I would be soloing emperors. I'd be a freaking God in PvP.

Ezareth wrote: »

it is annoyance at having to defend against utter ignorance from the same people over and over every day like a full time Job.

Ezareth wrote: »

I think playing the underdog sorc class all this time has trained us sorcs to be superior players.

I've held back. I've tried be reasonable. I've tried to demonstrate how you don't realize just how strong a class is until you play against it on a different class. But no, there is no reasoning with Ezareth. He truely believes what he is doing is balanced and fair. He believes that he does good solely on the skills that he has, and it has nothing to do with his class. As you can tell by his comments, he is one of the most arrogant people on the forums. Though he really isn't very different from any other Sorc out there. You see loads of Sorcs in PvP doing the same exact thing. Fact of the matter is, any geared Sorc knows how to play his class well dominates PvP. It's not cause they have amazing skills like they think, it is cause their class is overpowered.

Just look at his videos and you see how "difficult" a Sorc is to play. Playing a Sorc isn't rocket science ladies and gentlemen, and for that matter nothing is in ESO. This isn't Smash or Starcraft with tons of inputs per second. Sorcs have it particularly easily because they don't get punished for their positioning. Everything in their kit is extremely straight foward. Overextened? Bolt Escape away. About to take damage? Harden Ward. Crystal Frags proc? Press a button. It's a different playstyle and it takes time to get used to, but with rank 35 in AR I really do hope he knows how to play his class. The end result is a guy with his E-peen through the ceiling.

If he was a truely good player, then he wouldn't mind the very reasonable changes that I am trying to make happen. 99% of the Sorc frustration comes from the ridiculous shield spam. Shields have no counterplay. Without softcaps, it takes forever for a Sorc to run out of magika to stop spamming shields and BE. Shields are the problem main problem here. And some small adjustments like adding a cast time to them and making them scale off % health is all the needs to happen. Once that happens, then fine, Sorcs are balanced and no legitmate complaint can be argued. Once shields go away, then a Sorc will have to play smart and use his mobility and range. That will seperate the good Sorcs from the great ones. You should be excited Sorcs, cause then you can finally prove that your class does take some skill.

ToRelax

Neighbor wrote: »

SafiyerAmitora wrote: »

If you can't come up with a substantial argument, then don't bother replying.

Alright, here goes.
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Ezareth wrote: »

I just wish there was a higher barrier to entry in the PvP forums. Like you have to pass a game mechanics quiz or something and anything less than a 95% means you are flunked to the Lowbie forums.

Ezareth wrote: »

[ I often wish I had the knowledge of the game that I do today back in launch. I would be soloing emperors. I'd be a freaking God in PvP.

Ezareth wrote: »

it is annoyance at having to defend against utter ignorance from the same people over and over every day like a full time Job.

Ezareth wrote: »

I think playing the underdog sorc class all this time has trained us sorcs to be superior players.

I've held back. I've tried be reasonable. I've tried to demonstrate how you don't realize just how strong a class is until you play against it on a different class. But no, there is no reasoning with Ezareth. He truely believes what he is doing is balanced and fair. He believes that he does good solely on the skills that he has, and it has nothing to do with his class. As you can tell by his comments, he is one of the most arrogant people on the forums. Though he really isn't very different from any other Sorc out there. You see loads of Sorcs in PvP doing the same exact thing. Fact of the matter is, any geared Sorc knows how to play his class well dominates PvP. It's not cause they have amazing skills like they think, it is cause their class is overpowered.

Just look at his videos and you see how "difficult" a Sorc is to play. Playing a Sorc isn't rocket science ladies and gentlemen, and for that matter nothing is in ESO. This isn't Smash or Starcraft with tons of inputs per second. Sorcs have it particularly easily because they don't get punished for their positioning. Everything in their kit is extremely straight foward. Overextened? Bolt Escape away. About to take damage? Harden Ward. Crystal Frags proc? Press a button. It's a different playstyle and it takes time to get used to, but with rank 35 in AR I really do hope he knows how to play his class. The end result is a guy with his E-peen through the ceiling.

If he was a truely good player, then he wouldn't mind the very reasonable changes that I am trying to make happen. 99% of the Sorc frustration comes from the ridiculous shield spam. Shields have no counterplay. Without softcaps, it takes forever for a Sorc to run out of magika to stop spamming shields and BE. Shields are the problem main problem here. And some small adjustments like adding a cast time to them and making them scale off % health is all the needs to happen. Once that happens, then fine, Sorcs are balanced and no legitmate complaint can be argued. Once shields go away, then a Sorc will have to play smart and use his mobility and range. That will seperate the good Sorcs from the great ones. You should be excited Sorcs, cause then you can finally prove that your class does take some skill.

I rather see there is no reasoning with you my friend, but that has been obvious for some time now.

I'd just ask myself wether there is even one great Sorc player then? I mean, I can count the Sorcs who play on my level or higher on the EU server on one hand, and I would honestly say I'd count Ezareth to them after the short time on PTS.
Either Ezareth is a good Sorc or there are no great Sorcs in the game. Now who are you to judge?

Edit: Sorry, I counted and thought of at least 6 Sorcs I'd consider on my level or higher .

Cinnamon_Spider

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Mean while you keep going on about how everyone else is just wrong about Sorcs when we've got what? The 10th thread on this subject so far? At some point i'm wondering when it'll click with ya that maybe you might just be wrong on Sorcs.

Got one for sorcs believing only other sorcs and no one else?

You're in luck! This one would also suit a sorc that doesn't understand the game mechanics and also believes the forum QQers.

Teargrants

Neighbor wrote: »

Fact of the matter is, any geared Sorc knows how to play his class well dominates PvP. It's not cause they have amazing skills like they think, it is cause their class is overpowered.

ORLY? Cuz there's only about 5-10 sorcs on the entire server I would consider at all a threat, or capable of "dominating PvP". The rest are free AP.

Neighbor wrote: »

Shields are the problem main problem here. And some small adjustments like adding a cast time to them and making them scale off % health is all the needs to happen. Once that happens, then fine, Sorcs are balanced and no legitmate complaint can be argued.

Stamden

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Fact of the matter is, any geared Sorc knows how to play his class well dominates PvP. It's not cause they have amazing skills like they think, it is cause their class is overpowered.

ORLY? Cuz there's only about 5-10 sorcs on the entire server I would consider at all a threat, or capable of "dominating PvP". The rest are free AP.

Neighbor wrote: »

Shields are the problem main problem here. And some small adjustments like adding a cast time to them and making them scale off % health is all the needs to happen. Once that happens, then fine, Sorcs are balanced and no legitmate complaint can be argued.

Could be like half a second for all I care. They need to be interruptable so there is some counterplay.

Xsorus

Actually, I'd like to see dots either ignore shields or do about half damage through them.
This would make dot builds useful again while providing a counter to shields

Cinnamon_Spider

Neighbor wrote: »

Shields are the problem main problem here. And some small adjustments like adding a cast time to them and making them scale off % health is all the needs to happen. Once that happens, then fine, Sorcs are balanced and no legitmate complaint can be argued..

Neighbor wrote: »

Could be like half a second for all I care. They need to be interruptable so there is some counterplay.

They are affected by a gcd, so that already exists. You can also interrupt/cc to prevent a recast. Does that mean we just solved all of the sorc QQ problems?

Teargrants

Neighbor wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Fact of the matter is, any geared Sorc knows how to play his class well dominates PvP. It's not cause they have amazing skills like they think, it is cause their class is overpowered.

ORLY? Cuz there's only about 5-10 sorcs on the entire server I would consider at all a threat, or capable of "dominating PvP". The rest are free AP.

Neighbor wrote: »

Shields are the problem main problem here. And some small adjustments like adding a cast time to them and making them scale off % health is all the needs to happen. Once that happens, then fine, Sorcs are balanced and no legitmate complaint can be argued.

Could be like half a second for all I care. They need to be interruptable so there is some counterplay.

-Point at healing Ward as the only heal for most sorcs-
-Point at proposed cast time-

At least try and be honest about the implications of the nerfs you want.

Ezareth

Satiar wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

That skill is garbage in PvP. The amount of resources you get back are not worth losing 15% of your weapon damage. Even if they were, losing 2/10 of your skill slots just for it is laughable. Ask any decent NB and they will say the same. The only time it's even remotely worth it is with Siphoning Attacks morph and AoEing in PvE content.

Creating a thread to nerf another class because you just have no idea what your own class is capable of... this irony.

That fact the you guys actually think Siphoning Strikes is good in pvp really shows the quality of players you find on the forums.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

Post a screen shot of that...Because that's doubtful.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

shadow cloak doesnt kill aanyone except for

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

Post a screen shot of that...Because that's doubtful.

Why post evidence when hyperbole works so much better?

@Satiar by the power vested in my by Dee Tick, I summon thee to educate the unbelievers.

Oh my.

Ok, so, quick and dirty screenshot. No make up, just the real me. Also, no weapon damage enchants and I'm missing a two-piece bonus:



I have no idea why people think this skill is bad, it's allows the best resource management in the game. 1700 cost AoE returning 4,000 stamina? Yes please, I will have another.

I mean, no loss to me if people don't use the skill. But I can output a ton of damage while maintaining enough stamina to actually block and dodge and do all the things. It's kind of OP.

If you got enough space on your bar, sure it's good.
Siphoning Attacks is a great ability, especially in AoE since it procs every single second, but in 1vX I rather have 10 usable skills instead of 8..

Your screenshot really doesn't show anything though, It doesn't show what buffs ya have running or Gear setup (I imagine its something like Ravagers + Masters Dagger and Hundring maybe?)

Was I supposed to show my whole set up? I was under the impression I was meant to prove that you can use the skill while obtaining high weapon damage.

What exactly is the point though? If your going for a straight damage build (which you are, according to your other stats and regen) then Siphoning Strikes isn't going to do anything but slow down your kill. If you ganking squishies, then you don't need more stat regen and you do need the damage.

In a more regen oriented build it has more of a use, but it still is not worth the 2 skill slots at all.

Point is I can get bigger damage with better resource return than a regen build. 3600 is a lot of damage, more than enough to qualify as a high end damage build. Add to that my extra Stam and health from food, I have a more sustainable, higher damage character than I would with a regen build. It's an amazing tradeoff, a skill that allows you to build for the burst you want with the sustain you need.

I fight plenty of characters who hit hard and fade fast, and plenty with good sustain that can't get past my vigor/rally combo. I don't claim to have found some perfect spec or anything, but I just think it's weird people think competitive players shouldn't use this skill. You sacrifice two slots for the ability to spam damage, spam heals, freaking block and not lose your stam bar if you need to.

I think its a damn good build and two of the best night blades I know are using a similar build. While you trade some of your top end damage for amazing sustain, I end up gimping most of my damage and making many sacrifices for similar sustain....yet people actually think it is bad in PvP?! How can you even argue in the face of this kind of logic?

Just imagine a sorc with sustain and even 2600 spell damage, yet alone 3600. I run around in Cyrodiil with 1600. Please nerf Sorcs.

Stamden

Ezareth wrote: »

[
Just imagine a sorc with sustain and even 2600 spell damage, yet alone 3600. I run around in Cyrodiil with 1600. Please nerf Sorcs.

Lol obviously they scale differently. 2400 spell damage = ~3600 wep damage. By that I mean, it takes a lot less spell damage for your Frags to do 11k damage then NB weapon damage to do the same amount with Suprise attack.

Stamden

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Shields are the problem main problem here. And some small adjustments like adding a cast time to them and making them scale off % health is all the needs to happen. Once that happens, then fine, Sorcs are balanced and no legitmate complaint can be argued..

Neighbor wrote: »

Could be like half a second for all I care. They need to be interruptable so there is some counterplay.

They are affected by a gcd, so that already exists. You can also interrupt/cc to prevent a recast. Does that mean we just solved all of the sorc QQ problems?

Did you guys ever come to think that maybe, just maybe they didn't intend for shields to be spammed 100 times?

Cinnamon_Spider

Neighbor wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Shields are the problem main problem here. And some small adjustments like adding a cast time to them and making them scale off % health is all the needs to happen. Once that happens, then fine, Sorcs are balanced and no legitmate complaint can be argued..

Neighbor wrote: »

Could be like half a second for all I care. They need to be interruptable so there is some counterplay.

They are affected by a gcd, so that already exists. You can also interrupt/cc to prevent a recast. Does that mean we just solved all of the sorc QQ problems?

Did you guys ever come to think that maybe, just maybe they didn't intend for shields to be spammed 100 times?

So, your concern is the sorc that just stands there spamming shields while they regen magic and do nothing else?

Request for someone to make a new meme about this OP 100x shield spamming sorc (@Teargrants?)

Vis

Neighbor wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Shields are the problem main problem here. And some small adjustments like adding a cast time to them and making them scale off % health is all the needs to happen. Once that happens, then fine, Sorcs are balanced and no legitmate complaint can be argued..

Neighbor wrote: »

Could be like half a second for all I care. They need to be interruptable so there is some counterplay.

They are affected by a gcd, so that already exists. You can also interrupt/cc to prevent a recast. Does that mean we just solved all of the sorc QQ problems?

Did you guys ever come to think that maybe, just maybe they didn't intend for shields to be spammed 100 times?

Perhaps they did not intend the same for rolling. But here we are.

SafiyerAmitora

Neighbor wrote: »

SafiyerAmitora wrote: »

If you can't come up with a substantial argument, then don't bother replying.

Alright, here goes.
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Ezareth wrote: »

I just wish there was a higher barrier to entry in the PvP forums. Like you have to pass a game mechanics quiz or something and anything less than a 95% means you are flunked to the Lowbie forums.

Ezareth wrote: »

[ I often wish I had the knowledge of the game that I do today back in launch. I would be soloing emperors. I'd be a freaking God in PvP.

Ezareth wrote: »

it is annoyance at having to defend against utter ignorance from the same people over and over every day like a full time Job.

Ezareth wrote: »

I think playing the underdog sorc class all this time has trained us sorcs to be superior players.

I've held back. I've tried be reasonable. I've tried to demonstrate how you don't realize just how strong a class is until you play against it on a different class. But no, there is no reasoning with Ezareth. He truely believes what he is doing is balanced and fair. He believes that he does good solely on the skills that he has, and it has nothing to do with his class. As you can tell by his comments, he is one of the most arrogant people on the forums. Though he really isn't very different from any other Sorc out there. You see loads of Sorcs in PvP doing the same exact thing. Fact of the matter is, any geared Sorc knows how to play his class well dominates PvP. It's not cause they have amazing skills like they think, it is cause their class is overpowered.

Just look at his videos and you see how "difficult" a Sorc is to play. Playing a Sorc isn't rocket science ladies and gentlemen, and for that matter nothing is in ESO. This isn't Smash or Starcraft with tons of inputs per second. Sorcs have it particularly easily because they don't get punished for their positioning. Everything in their kit is extremely straight foward. Overextened? Bolt Escape away. About to take damage? Harden Ward. Crystal Frags proc? Press a button. It's a different playstyle and it takes time to get used to, but with rank 35 in AR I really do hope he knows how to play his class. The end result is a guy with his E-peen through the ceiling.

If he was a truely good player, then he wouldn't mind the very reasonable changes that I am trying to make happen. 99% of the Sorc frustration comes from the ridiculous shield spam. Shields have no counterplay. Without softcaps, it takes forever for a Sorc to run out of magika to stop spamming shields and BE. Shields are the problem main problem here. And some small adjustments like adding a cast time to them and making them scale off % health is all the needs to happen. Once that happens, then fine, Sorcs are balanced and no legitmate complaint can be argued. Once shields go away, then a Sorc will have to play smart and use his mobility and range. That will seperate the good Sorcs from the great ones. You should be excited Sorcs, cause then you can finally prove that your class does take some skill.

Thing is, I actually do see his point. I support Sorcs even though my mains are DK/NB because I've heard from many Sorcs' PoVs about their class and now that I'm lvling one, I see what they mean. I've fought plenty of Sorcs on my NB and DK, and I died to most of them, but it's more of a weakness in my builds than anything and I don't complain because I didn't specifically spec to kill them, and that's my own fault. A fault I don't mind. Also, when softcaps were removed, it essentially brought in a whole load of imbalance in itself what with supporting pure builds while taking a large blow to hybrids. Putting everything, or at least a lot of everything, into one stat is now a lot more effective than spreading points across different stats. It's not just Sorcs putting all their points into magicka, it's nb's putting all their points into either stam or magicka, as with dk's and templars, and percentage of Sorcs putting theirs all into stam. It's not just magicka Sorcs stacking into one stat; it's just more effective for most (I say most rather than all because there's always exceptions to the rule (like tanks)) builds.

It may not be rocket science, but it's definitely more difficult than, say, putting your socks on, or making a sandwich. For me, my playstyle is exactly like that of a DK tank: being up in the enemy's face, taking loads of dmg, and supporting the group. Try going from that to a ranged, squishy dps that normally does single target: it's really dang difficult, especially since my habits of perma-blocking from my PvE days on my DK have made a horrible appearance in my low-stam-Sorc's fighting. >.>'

BE, ward, and frags all have counters of their own. Gap-closer or speed buffs. CC + burst. Reflect. It is possible to counter Sorcs with each of these; I've caught BE'ing Sorcs with gap-closers. My Sorc gets rekt when she and her ward gets bursted down while CC'd because of her pathetic stam pool and stam regen, coupled with a pathetic health pool (her shields are nice, yes, but it doesn't help when she can't reapply them while CC'd and they get bursted down in that duration). I've eaten my own frags several times when I didn't see defensive stance get put up or saw RS go up too late, and I've reflected frags back at Sorcs while on my lowbie templar using eclipse.

Hardened ward is alright as it is, imo. Since it doesn't give the dmg like blazing shield/fragmented shield or extra healing like igneous shield (hardened ward is pure defense-only), and Sorc class heals are pretty sucky, scaling off magicka actually seems fair. Sorcs aren't the only ones shield stacking, either. Templars can use blazing + harness + healing or DKs can use igneous + harness + healing. Hardened has a some k difference from blazing and igneous shield, but without any addition to dmg or heals. And again, the shields and shield stacking can be countered by CC + burst because a lot of Sorcs are running around with sucky stam pools and stam regen rates. Once they're CC'd and out of stam, they can't reapply their shields and therefore the shields can be torn to shreds. With the shields gone and leaving them vulnerable, their (usually) tiny health pools can be drained really quickly. There are counters, but it seems players would rather take the easy route by asking for nerfs rather than spend time and energy to find and use ways to counter it.

Cenion

SafiyerAmitora wrote: »

I've fought plenty of Sorcs on my NB and DK, and I died to most of them, but it's more of a weakness in my builds than anything and I don't complain because I didn't specifically spec to kill them, and that's my own fault. A fault I don't mind.

This is not right. You should not need to specifically build around beating someone unless he has also built specifically to beat you. I can only assume, but I doubt those sorcs changed their builds to beat you. They have their builds and they counter more or less everyone.

SafiyerAmitora

Cenion wrote: »

SafiyerAmitora wrote: »

I've fought plenty of Sorcs on my NB and DK, and I died to most of them, but it's more of a weakness in my builds than anything and I don't complain because I didn't specifically spec to kill them, and that's my own fault. A fault I don't mind.

This is not right. You should not need to specifically build around beating someone unless he has also built specifically to beat you. I can only assume, but I doubt those sorcs changed their builds to beat you. They have their builds and they counter more or less everyone.

What I meant was none of my skills on either bar for either my DK or my NB are a reflect, CC, or gap-closer (I used to have one, but replaced with another skill), which severely limits my ability to fight Sorcs well, so it's quite common for me to die to one. If I had at least one, maybe two, or even all three, I'd be able to fight Sorcs a lot better, but I choose not to have them on my bar. So like I said, it's my own fault and I really don't mind it.

Teargrants

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Shields are the problem main problem here. And some small adjustments like adding a cast time to them and making them scale off % health is all the needs to happen. Once that happens, then fine, Sorcs are balanced and no legitmate complaint can be argued..

Neighbor wrote: »

Could be like half a second for all I care. They need to be interruptable so there is some counterplay.

They are affected by a gcd, so that already exists. You can also interrupt/cc to prevent a recast. Does that mean we just solved all of the sorc QQ problems?

Did you guys ever come to think that maybe, just maybe they didn't intend for shields to be spammed 100 times?

So, your concern is the sorc that just stands there spamming shields while they regen magic and do nothing else?

Request for someone to make a new meme about this OP 100x shield spamming sorc (@Teargrants?)

Teargrants to the rescue!

Cenion wrote: »

SafiyerAmitora wrote: »

I've fought plenty of Sorcs on my NB and DK, and I died to most of them, but it's more of a weakness in my builds than anything and I don't complain because I didn't specifically spec to kill them, and that's my own fault. A fault I don't mind.

This is not right. You should not need to specifically build around beating someone unless he has also built specifically to beat you. I can only assume, but I doubt those sorcs changed their builds to beat you. They have their builds and they counter more or less everyone.

Can we for once be super cereal here? Claiming sorcs counter everyone with one build is about the most ignorant statement I've seen on these forums. I'm switching up my gear and skill bar load out multiple times a day to deal with different types of enemies day in day out. Each of those builds focuses of being most effective against one type of play style of one class and absolutely performs sub par against things that are not that one play style.

Cenion

Teargrants wrote: »

I'm switching up my gear and skill bar load out multiple times a day to deal with different types of enemies day in day out.

Here's 3 videos of some random sorc. You might have seen them before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rONxr8M2F50

-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WQ9JjUqD-g

-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ3jJRpRf0M

I can totally see what you mean. He has been really busy swapping skills around between those three.

Tintinabula

Every class can only use one damage shield at any given time..there. fixed. or better yet..multiple damage shields brings down spell/weapon damage.

Teargrants

Cenion wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

I'm switching up my gear and skill bar load out multiple times a day to deal with different types of enemies day in day out.

Here's 3 videos of some random sorc. You might have seen them before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rONxr8M2F50

-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WQ9JjUqD-g

-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJ3jJRpRf0M

I can totally see what you mean. He has been really busy swapping skills around between those three.

Notice how I have completely different gear load outs in the first video, varying between my 5 light/2 heavy, and two different 5 heavy/2 light setups I use.

Notice how in the 2nd video I have a magical thing called Radiant Mage Light instead of Entropy and Purge.

Notice how in the 3rd I'm using an old 5 light/2 heavy build that I don't use anymore.


You really did your homework, here's some more research material for you featuring yet more different builds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQDTOiU4Tb0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs9Z6Bfgi4M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdD2iqFb-jE

jelliedsoup

Satiar wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

That skill is garbage in PvP. The amount of resources you get back are not worth losing 15% of your weapon damage. Even if they were, losing 2/10 of your skill slots just for it is laughable. Ask any decent NB and they will say the same. The only time it's even remotely worth it is with Siphoning Attacks morph and AoEing in PvE content.

Creating a thread to nerf another class because you just have no idea what your own class is capable of... this irony.

That fact the you guys actually think Siphoning Strikes is good in pvp really shows the quality of players you find on the forums.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

Post a screen shot of that...Because that's doubtful.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

shadow cloak doesnt kill aanyone except for

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

Post a screen shot of that...Because that's doubtful.

Why post evidence when hyperbole works so much better?

@Satiar by the power vested in my by Dee Tick, I summon thee to educate the unbelievers.

Oh my.

Ok, so, quick and dirty screenshot. No make up, just the real me. Also, no weapon damage enchants and I'm missing a two-piece bonus:



I have no idea why people think this skill is bad, it's the best resource management in the game. 1700 cost AoE returning 4,000 stamina? Yes please, I will have another.

I mean, no loss to me if people don't use the skill. But I can output a ton of damage while maintaining enough stamina to actually block and dodge and do all the things. It's kind of OP.

And this 3600 is with siphon attacks enabled?

Satiar

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

That skill is garbage in PvP. The amount of resources you get back are not worth losing 15% of your weapon damage. Even if they were, losing 2/10 of your skill slots just for it is laughable. Ask any decent NB and they will say the same. The only time it's even remotely worth it is with Siphoning Attacks morph and AoEing in PvE content.

Creating a thread to nerf another class because you just have no idea what your own class is capable of... this irony.

That fact the you guys actually think Siphoning Strikes is good in pvp really shows the quality of players you find on the forums.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

Post a screen shot of that...Because that's doubtful.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

shadow cloak doesnt kill aanyone except for

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

Post a screen shot of that...Because that's doubtful.

Why post evidence when hyperbole works so much better?

@Satiar by the power vested in my by Dee Tick, I summon thee to educate the unbelievers.

Oh my.

Ok, so, quick and dirty screenshot. No make up, just the real me. Also, no weapon damage enchants and I'm missing a two-piece bonus:



I have no idea why people think this skill is bad, it's the best resource management in the game. 1700 cost AoE returning 4,000 stamina? Yes please, I will have another.

I mean, no loss to me if people don't use the skill. But I can output a ton of damage while maintaining enough stamina to actually block and dodge and do all the things. It's kind of OP.

And this 3600 is with siphon attacks enabled?

You can see the red glow on my sword.

Teargrants

Satiar wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

That skill is garbage in PvP. The amount of resources you get back are not worth losing 15% of your weapon damage. Even if they were, losing 2/10 of your skill slots just for it is laughable. Ask any decent NB and they will say the same. The only time it's even remotely worth it is with Siphoning Attacks morph and AoEing in PvE content.

Creating a thread to nerf another class because you just have no idea what your own class is capable of... this irony.

That fact the you guys actually think Siphoning Strikes is good in pvp really shows the quality of players you find on the forums.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

Post a screen shot of that...Because that's doubtful.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

shadow cloak doesnt kill aanyone except for

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

Post a screen shot of that...Because that's doubtful.

Why post evidence when hyperbole works so much better?

@Satiar by the power vested in my by Dee Tick, I summon thee to educate the unbelievers.

Oh my.

Ok, so, quick and dirty screenshot. No make up, just the real me. Also, no weapon damage enchants and I'm missing a two-piece bonus:



I have no idea why people think this skill is bad, it's the best resource management in the game. 1700 cost AoE returning 4,000 stamina? Yes please, I will have another.

I mean, no loss to me if people don't use the skill. But I can output a ton of damage while maintaining enough stamina to actually block and dodge and do all the things. It's kind of OP.

And this 3600 is with siphon attacks enabled?

You can see the red glow on my sword.

Oh lawd Steve, you were right. They did question that.

Satiar

Teargrants wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

That skill is garbage in PvP. The amount of resources you get back are not worth losing 15% of your weapon damage. Even if they were, losing 2/10 of your skill slots just for it is laughable. Ask any decent NB and they will say the same. The only time it's even remotely worth it is with Siphoning Attacks morph and AoEing in PvE content.

Creating a thread to nerf another class because you just have no idea what your own class is capable of... this irony.

That fact the you guys actually think Siphoning Strikes is good in pvp really shows the quality of players you find on the forums.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

Post a screen shot of that...Because that's doubtful.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

shadow cloak doesnt kill aanyone except for

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

Post a screen shot of that...Because that's doubtful.

Why post evidence when hyperbole works so much better?

@Satiar by the power vested in my by Dee Tick, I summon thee to educate the unbelievers.

Oh my.

Ok, so, quick and dirty screenshot. No make up, just the real me. Also, no weapon damage enchants and I'm missing a two-piece bonus:



I have no idea why people think this skill is bad, it's the best resource management in the game. 1700 cost AoE returning 4,000 stamina? Yes please, I will have another.

I mean, no loss to me if people don't use the skill. But I can output a ton of damage while maintaining enough stamina to actually block and dodge and do all the things. It's kind of OP.

And this 3600 is with siphon attacks enabled?

You can see the red glow on my sword.

Oh lawd Steve, you were right. They did question that.

My predictions are not false.

Xsorus

Teargrants wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

That skill is garbage in PvP. The amount of resources you get back are not worth losing 15% of your weapon damage. Even if they were, losing 2/10 of your skill slots just for it is laughable. Ask any decent NB and they will say the same. The only time it's even remotely worth it is with Siphoning Attacks morph and AoEing in PvE content.

Creating a thread to nerf another class because you just have no idea what your own class is capable of... this irony.

That fact the you guys actually think Siphoning Strikes is good in pvp really shows the quality of players you find on the forums.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

Post a screen shot of that...Because that's doubtful.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

shadow cloak doesnt kill aanyone except for

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

Post a screen shot of that...Because that's doubtful.

Why post evidence when hyperbole works so much better?

@Satiar by the power vested in my by Dee Tick, I summon thee to educate the unbelievers.

Oh my.

Ok, so, quick and dirty screenshot. No make up, just the real me. Also, no weapon damage enchants and I'm missing a two-piece bonus:



I have no idea why people think this skill is bad, it's the best resource management in the game. 1700 cost AoE returning 4,000 stamina? Yes please, I will have another.

I mean, no loss to me if people don't use the skill. But I can output a ton of damage while maintaining enough stamina to actually block and dodge and do all the things. It's kind of OP.

And this 3600 is with siphon attacks enabled?

You can see the red glow on my sword.

Oh lawd Steve, you were right. They did question that.

To be fair, if ya don't have a nb you wouldn't notice it

ToRelax

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

That skill is garbage in PvP. The amount of resources you get back are not worth losing 15% of your weapon damage. Even if they were, losing 2/10 of your skill slots just for it is laughable. Ask any decent NB and they will say the same. The only time it's even remotely worth it is with Siphoning Attacks morph and AoEing in PvE content.

Creating a thread to nerf another class because you just have no idea what your own class is capable of... this irony.

That fact the you guys actually think Siphoning Strikes is good in pvp really shows the quality of players you find on the forums.

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

Post a screen shot of that...Because that's doubtful.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

shadow cloak doesnt kill aanyone except for

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Siphoning strikes is a pretty terrible skill, especially in PvP. Nobody competitively uses it because the damage drop off is too much.

Congrats, you just won the boneheaded comment of the year award. It is an invaluable skill for competitive players because you can get back infinite resources with it and still maintain 3600 wep dmg w/ it toggled on. If you cant figure out how, that's your problem.

Post a screen shot of that...Because that's doubtful.

Why post evidence when hyperbole works so much better?

@Satiar by the power vested in my by Dee Tick, I summon thee to educate the unbelievers.

Oh my.

Ok, so, quick and dirty screenshot. No make up, just the real me. Also, no weapon damage enchants and I'm missing a two-piece bonus:



I have no idea why people think this skill is bad, it's the best resource management in the game. 1700 cost AoE returning 4,000 stamina? Yes please, I will have another.

I mean, no loss to me if people don't use the skill. But I can output a ton of damage while maintaining enough stamina to actually block and dodge and do all the things. It's kind of OP.

And this 3600 is with siphon attacks enabled?

You can see the red glow on my sword.

Oh lawd Steve, you were right. They did question that.

To be fair, if ya don't have a nb you wouldn't notice it

Actually I'd be surprised if one wouldn't want to find out what that glow is when he sees it the first time >_> .
But I also remember that guy with the tooltip bug of Hardened Ward in his screenshot, so it's not like I don't understand the question... just that at this point he'd have to test himself either way.

Tankqull

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Actually, I'd like to see dots either ignore shields or do about half damage through them.
This would make dot builds useful again while providing a counter to shields

dots do full unmitigated dmg, bleeds do not but there are only two bleeds in use as far as i know (1.style of 2h and DW + random axe bleed procs)

MoneyOverEverything

first of all, sry for my bad english,

here are some important things to know if u play against a sorc and if get rekt every day

1. if u cant burstkill a sorc, u can kill a sorc when the sorc has no stamina to cc break, but only if youre alive

2. most sorcs got 18k - 20k hp + hardened ward = 30k - 33k, every 4th-5th spell a sorc have to cast hardened ward
to stay alive when they are stunned on the ground most sorcs got 8500 - 12k stamina

3. most sorcs wear 7/7 light or 5/7 light 2/7 heavy so their spell resistance or armor isnt that high

4. most sorcs use a restrostaff with healing ward which can be a 14k hp + shield when they are on low life

5. very experienced sorcs got (dont know the english word of the 5th mageguild skill) äquilibrium on their bar which they use in that combo
10-20% hp -> healing ward 12-14k hp + hardened ward 10k-12k -> äquilibrium = full hp after 5 seconds + hardened ward + 20% dmg buff for their next attack for spending no mana on healing ward and/or hardened ward
that means a good sorc player always have more ressources than u if youre a bad player

6. no matter what happened dont let the sorc play aggressive try to stun them as much u can

7. keep in mind that most (players) but especially sorcs use tri-stat-pots, if u dont use tri-stat-pots against a tri-stat-pot using player its a big difference

8. if u got problems killing a sorc, join an arena guild and duel sorcs to test or grind a sorc on your own to see how they work

9. reflect overload or dont get hit otherwise your probably dead

10. there are some bugs/exploits at the moment which benefits a burst-sorc-player (20k crystal fragments, 18k overload, 14k magicka detonation, 12k daedric curse) dont wonder if u die to this, its not your fault, its a typical zenimax fail

11. breton sorc op

12. keep in mind that some players got 50-75 more champion-points than u

13. keep in mind that a player with a +20 higher pvp rank than u is in 95% of a case just better/more experienced than you or he has a +30-80 days playtime than u on his sorc

14. keep in mind that some sorcs have v12 warlock rings which means they use 5 seducer 5 warlock and engineers shoulders + head or 2 pieces of torug

15. keep in mind that most of the march 2014 players already got 3-5 v14 chars, so they know the other classes

---
---
---

casuals always get rekt, if u dont wanna die like a casual, stop being a casual

cozmon3c_ESO

i can count the good sorcs that are as good or better then me on one hand as well, i fight them all the time.

Teargrants
Prett
Derra
Saber Ali (when he was a sorc)

and the ones i play with
Erkon Quietus
Vae Exillis
(these two guys do amazing things)