Maintenance for the week of December 23:
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – December 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – December 23, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 14:00 UTC (9:00AM EST)
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – December 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – December 23, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 14:00 UTC (9:00AM EST)
How to balance Sorcs
-
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I can't believe that your a Sorc and your actually complaining about NBs. That's like a billionaire complaing about paying taxes.rfennell_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »
It's a problem with all magika builds. As I've said, the problem wth buffing magika builds is that it would make Sorcs even more OP, so they can't buff them yet. Until Sorcs get nerfed all other magika builds are getting held back.
Actually upping the armor value of light armor wouldn't help nearly as much as you think for sorcs as hardened ward is not affected by armor rating or spell resist. Light armor is the main culprit in lack of magikca builds.
When did I ever mention armor values?
Well, it has become clear you don't follow much. But the biggest issue for magicka builds is the lack of defense from armor, particularly physical resist. Light armor is the culprit, specifically how little armor it gives you. Full light armor nets you some ridiculously low number on armor rating (like 4k). If you do not have a decent amount of cp, you will have to go light armor to be a magicka build. Obviously to get the full bonus from light armor is suicidal as you take way too much damage. Even with going 5l 2h you end up with half the defenses of medium (which can just go 7m and not be tissue in a firestorm).
It's likely the primary reason why you don't see many magicka builds in pvp right now. The exception is obviously sorcs, which through their hardened ward can mitigate much of the problems of light armor.
You choose to try and make the argument that magicka builds are all being held back by sorcerer strength (a somewhat childish attempt to "rally" any wannabe magicka builds to your cause). The culprit is certainly not sorcs, it's the tissue paper defense of light armor; this is compounded by the fact that magicka builds are heavily in need of the light armor passives to operate.
You continually either ignore any rationale explanations to your tirades or try to dismiss them as sorcs are op. Sorcs merely do not suffer the serious limitations of light armor as drastically as other classes. Increasing light armor defense would not particularly help sorcs, but it would help everyone else.
Earlier in the thread you complained I never responded to the endless stream of nonsense you keep spewing about sorcerers. I did, and I doubt you even bothered reading it. You just went back to making claims that are nothing but the opinion of a poor speller that doesn't know this game very well past the assumption that nightblades and medium armor stamina builds should be able to kill everyone.
It's become tedious to even bother with your constant accusations, only to find the same regurgitated things being parroted by people that unknowingly fall under the banner of "L2P" as the only retort that is reasonable.
In case you don't know there was a time where light armor passives were the only passives worthwhile. Medium and Heavy armor passives were gradually buffed and light armor was nerfed. Medium has far surpassed light armor in value and heavy has come close, meanwhile the "need" for light armor for magicka builds remained high.
All you need to do is look at the current state of pvp in cyro. I'd take a guess at roughly 75% of people engaging in it are in medium armor now. To that you say "nerf sorcs", which I can only interpret as you don't think that 75% number is high enough and it ought be 90%.
I would actually be fine with buffing light armor in that way if they nerfed shields accordingly. If you buff light armor w/o nerfing shields then you just made Sorcs even harder to kill.
True. Does in no way mean Sorcs must be toned down though.
Yes because back when DKs were OP they had a blink and could catch up to Sorcs..TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »Words spoken so truly, OP is angry he cant faceroll sorcs with his class anymore as he can dk/templar.
Seriously though, at no point could any class "faceroll" sorcs. Best case scenrio has always been to make one run away. Now they simply don't need to run away unless it is 1v5 or more.
If someone can win a 1v4, he was a way better player, regardless of his class... there was not a point since 1.1 that any good player coud win against 2 equally skilled players on his level.
Let's see...You can't reason with the OP. He's probably the L56 NB I just gibbed with my L14 NB.
You just said it was "The Nerf Sorc" forums. Either I am an idiot or the whole forums are an idiot, you chose. All I have to say is that there is a reason everyone complains about Sorcs.
And don't say I can't be reasoned with. I provide overwelming evidence of why Sorcs are the best AvA class, yet you simply can't see it because you play a Sorc.
Yes, overwhelming indeed. You could have a look in that now closed "how to balance NBs" thread to understand the stupidity of basically all your arguments. If you really don't understand how wrong you are.Sorcerers are clearly the most dominate class in PvP. Wether you judge off playing the game, popular opinion, leaderboards, etc; their dominance is indisputable and this post is not here to debate about it. This post is in regards to reasonable way to tone down the class while keeping them viable.
[...]
Also, not the whole forum are idiots, so I guess it must be you... your words
.
As I said in that thread, NB lacks ways of reading comprehension. I never actually complained about NBs . DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Its simple like I said, make Dots ignore Absorb Shields...This will give Dots a purpose and give Shields an actual counter.
Of course they'll have to change things like Soul Assault from being a Dot....Though they should let Radiant Destruction remain a Dot just because I wanna hear what Sorcs think about it when it goes through their defense like it does Dodge heh
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Its simple like I said, make Dots ignore Absorb Shields...This will give Dots a purpose and give Shields an actual counter.
Of course they'll have to change things like Soul Assault from being a Dot....Though they should let Radiant Destruction remain a Dot just because I wanna hear what Sorcs think about it when it goes through their defense like it does Dodge heh
Translation: I have multiple dots.
4 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »Its simple like I said, make Dots ignore Absorb Shields...This will give Dots a purpose and give Shields an actual counter.
Of course they'll have to change things like Soul Assault from being a Dot....Though they should let Radiant Destruction remain a Dot just because I wanna hear what Sorcs think about it when it goes through their defense like it does Dodge heh
Translation: I have multiple dots.
A lot of classes have multiple dots..I think maybe Sorc might be only one that doesn't have one (and you could add one to them)
It'd move people from just Burst builds into possibly dot builds.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
So much PVP talk..can I just get summons that stay alive during a weapon swap.
Thanks0 -
Stamden✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I can't believe that your a Sorc and your actually complaining about NBs. That's like a billionaire complaing about paying taxes.rfennell_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »
It's a problem with all magika builds. As I've said, the problem wth buffing magika builds is that it would make Sorcs even more OP, so they can't buff them yet. Until Sorcs get nerfed all other magika builds are getting held back.
Actually upping the armor value of light armor wouldn't help nearly as much as you think for sorcs as hardened ward is not affected by armor rating or spell resist. Light armor is the main culprit in lack of magikca builds.
When did I ever mention armor values?
Well, it has become clear you don't follow much. But the biggest issue for magicka builds is the lack of defense from armor, particularly physical resist. Light armor is the culprit, specifically how little armor it gives you. Full light armor nets you some ridiculously low number on armor rating (like 4k). If you do not have a decent amount of cp, you will have to go light armor to be a magicka build. Obviously to get the full bonus from light armor is suicidal as you take way too much damage. Even with going 5l 2h you end up with half the defenses of medium (which can just go 7m and not be tissue in a firestorm).
It's likely the primary reason why you don't see many magicka builds in pvp right now. The exception is obviously sorcs, which through their hardened ward can mitigate much of the problems of light armor.
You choose to try and make the argument that magicka builds are all being held back by sorcerer strength (a somewhat childish attempt to "rally" any wannabe magicka builds to your cause). The culprit is certainly not sorcs, it's the tissue paper defense of light armor; this is compounded by the fact that magicka builds are heavily in need of the light armor passives to operate.
You continually either ignore any rationale explanations to your tirades or try to dismiss them as sorcs are op. Sorcs merely do not suffer the serious limitations of light armor as drastically as other classes. Increasing light armor defense would not particularly help sorcs, but it would help everyone else.
Earlier in the thread you complained I never responded to the endless stream of nonsense you keep spewing about sorcerers. I did, and I doubt you even bothered reading it. You just went back to making claims that are nothing but the opinion of a poor speller that doesn't know this game very well past the assumption that nightblades and medium armor stamina builds should be able to kill everyone.
It's become tedious to even bother with your constant accusations, only to find the same regurgitated things being parroted by people that unknowingly fall under the banner of "L2P" as the only retort that is reasonable.
In case you don't know there was a time where light armor passives were the only passives worthwhile. Medium and Heavy armor passives were gradually buffed and light armor was nerfed. Medium has far surpassed light armor in value and heavy has come close, meanwhile the "need" for light armor for magicka builds remained high.
All you need to do is look at the current state of pvp in cyro. I'd take a guess at roughly 75% of people engaging in it are in medium armor now. To that you say "nerf sorcs", which I can only interpret as you don't think that 75% number is high enough and it ought be 90%.
I would actually be fine with buffing light armor in that way if they nerfed shields accordingly. If you buff light armor w/o nerfing shields then you just made Sorcs even harder to kill.
True. Does in no way mean Sorcs must be toned down though.
Yes because back when DKs were OP they had a blink and could catch up to Sorcs..TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »Words spoken so truly, OP is angry he cant faceroll sorcs with his class anymore as he can dk/templar.
Seriously though, at no point could any class "faceroll" sorcs. Best case scenrio has always been to make one run away. Now they simply don't need to run away unless it is 1v5 or more.
If someone can win a 1v4, he was a way better player, regardless of his class... there was not a point since 1.1 that any good player coud win against 2 equally skilled players on his level.
Let's see...You can't reason with the OP. He's probably the L56 NB I just gibbed with my L14 NB.
You just said it was "The Nerf Sorc" forums. Either I am an idiot or the whole forums are an idiot, you chose. All I have to say is that there is a reason everyone complains about Sorcs.
And don't say I can't be reasoned with. I provide overwelming evidence of why Sorcs are the best AvA class, yet you simply can't see it because you play a Sorc.
Yes, overwhelming indeed. You could have a look in that now closed "how to balance NBs" thread to understand the stupidity of basically all your arguments. If you really don't understand how wrong you are.Sorcerers are clearly the most dominate class in PvP. Wether you judge off playing the game, popular opinion, leaderboards, etc; their dominance is indisputable and this post is not here to debate about it. This post is in regards to reasonable way to tone down the class while keeping them viable.
[...]
Also, not the whole forum are idiots, so I guess it must be you... your words .
As I said in that thread, NB lacks ways of reading comprehension. I never actually complained about NBs .
...you made a thread called "How to balance NBs"PC NA
~Currently taking a break from the game until my DK can become something more than just a crafter~0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I can't believe that your a Sorc and your actually complaining about NBs. That's like a billionaire complaing about paying taxes.rfennell_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »
It's a problem with all magika builds. As I've said, the problem wth buffing magika builds is that it would make Sorcs even more OP, so they can't buff them yet. Until Sorcs get nerfed all other magika builds are getting held back.
Actually upping the armor value of light armor wouldn't help nearly as much as you think for sorcs as hardened ward is not affected by armor rating or spell resist. Light armor is the main culprit in lack of magikca builds.
When did I ever mention armor values?
Well, it has become clear you don't follow much. But the biggest issue for magicka builds is the lack of defense from armor, particularly physical resist. Light armor is the culprit, specifically how little armor it gives you. Full light armor nets you some ridiculously low number on armor rating (like 4k). If you do not have a decent amount of cp, you will have to go light armor to be a magicka build. Obviously to get the full bonus from light armor is suicidal as you take way too much damage. Even with going 5l 2h you end up with half the defenses of medium (which can just go 7m and not be tissue in a firestorm).
It's likely the primary reason why you don't see many magicka builds in pvp right now. The exception is obviously sorcs, which through their hardened ward can mitigate much of the problems of light armor.
You choose to try and make the argument that magicka builds are all being held back by sorcerer strength (a somewhat childish attempt to "rally" any wannabe magicka builds to your cause). The culprit is certainly not sorcs, it's the tissue paper defense of light armor; this is compounded by the fact that magicka builds are heavily in need of the light armor passives to operate.
You continually either ignore any rationale explanations to your tirades or try to dismiss them as sorcs are op. Sorcs merely do not suffer the serious limitations of light armor as drastically as other classes. Increasing light armor defense would not particularly help sorcs, but it would help everyone else.
Earlier in the thread you complained I never responded to the endless stream of nonsense you keep spewing about sorcerers. I did, and I doubt you even bothered reading it. You just went back to making claims that are nothing but the opinion of a poor speller that doesn't know this game very well past the assumption that nightblades and medium armor stamina builds should be able to kill everyone.
It's become tedious to even bother with your constant accusations, only to find the same regurgitated things being parroted by people that unknowingly fall under the banner of "L2P" as the only retort that is reasonable.
In case you don't know there was a time where light armor passives were the only passives worthwhile. Medium and Heavy armor passives were gradually buffed and light armor was nerfed. Medium has far surpassed light armor in value and heavy has come close, meanwhile the "need" for light armor for magicka builds remained high.
All you need to do is look at the current state of pvp in cyro. I'd take a guess at roughly 75% of people engaging in it are in medium armor now. To that you say "nerf sorcs", which I can only interpret as you don't think that 75% number is high enough and it ought be 90%.
I would actually be fine with buffing light armor in that way if they nerfed shields accordingly. If you buff light armor w/o nerfing shields then you just made Sorcs even harder to kill.
True. Does in no way mean Sorcs must be toned down though.
Yes because back when DKs were OP they had a blink and could catch up to Sorcs..TheElementalPlatypus wrote: »Words spoken so truly, OP is angry he cant faceroll sorcs with his class anymore as he can dk/templar.
Seriously though, at no point could any class "faceroll" sorcs. Best case scenrio has always been to make one run away. Now they simply don't need to run away unless it is 1v5 or more.
If someone can win a 1v4, he was a way better player, regardless of his class... there was not a point since 1.1 that any good player coud win against 2 equally skilled players on his level.
Let's see...You can't reason with the OP. He's probably the L56 NB I just gibbed with my L14 NB.
You just said it was "The Nerf Sorc" forums. Either I am an idiot or the whole forums are an idiot, you chose. All I have to say is that there is a reason everyone complains about Sorcs.
And don't say I can't be reasoned with. I provide overwelming evidence of why Sorcs are the best AvA class, yet you simply can't see it because you play a Sorc.
Yes, overwhelming indeed. You could have a look in that now closed "how to balance NBs" thread to understand the stupidity of basically all your arguments. If you really don't understand how wrong you are.Sorcerers are clearly the most dominate class in PvP. Wether you judge off playing the game, popular opinion, leaderboards, etc; their dominance is indisputable and this post is not here to debate about it. This post is in regards to reasonable way to tone down the class while keeping them viable.
[...]
Also, not the whole forum are idiots, so I guess it must be you... your words .
As I said in that thread, NB lacks ways of reading comprehension. I never actually complained about NBs .
...you made a thread called "How to balance NBs"
I thought you'd either ignore that comment or think about what I was talking about...
DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sooner or later, just like the overpowered Dragon Knights, Magicka Sorcerers will be brought back down to earth and hopefully Stamina Sorcerers will become more than nearly useless.
And there's no escape for all you silly Stamina Nightblades either.2 -
kazeweaver✭✭✭What I think should happen to help balance out the shield stacking is make damage shields into major and minor buffs. Major shielding and minor shielding so they can't stack them so much0 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I can't believe that your a Sorc and your actually complaining about NBs. That's like a billionaire complaing about paying taxes.
I'll clue you in on a little secret.
The good NB's can take down the shield, stun you and kill you before you can even react.
I know that's definitely a secret you aren't aware of.5 -
Stamden✭✭✭✭✭
✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »I can't believe that your a Sorc and your actually complaining about NBs. That's like a billionaire complaing about paying taxes.
I'll clue you in on a little secret.
The good NB's can take down the shield, stun you and kill you before you can even react.
I know that's definitely a secret you aren't aware of.
That's more based on the reaction speed of the Sorc. If you break CC right away you can BE away and restack your shields. And before you say it, no an NB should not be one-shotting you. Even assuming the NB is specifically stacking wep damage and is set up for ganking, SA only does 7k damage. Internal cooldowns on skills and auto attacks prevent massive amounts of damage from happening in a short time.PC NA
~Currently taking a break from the game until my DK can become something more than just a crafter~0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »I can't believe that your a Sorc and your actually complaining about NBs. That's like a billionaire complaing about paying taxes.
I'll clue you in on a little secret.
The good NB's can take down the shield, stun you and kill you before you can even react.
I know that's definitely a secret you aren't aware of.
That's more based on the reaction speed of the Sorc. If you break CC right away you can BE away and restack your shields. And before you say it, no an NB should not be one-shotting you. Even assuming the NB is specifically stacking wep damage and is set up for ganking, SA only does 7k damage. Internal cooldowns on skills and auto attacks prevent massive amounts of damage from happening in a short time.
...
Did you just say there is no burst damage at all?
Btw, after the CC break you roll dodge, not Bolt Escape, or you are dead.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU3 -
Teargrants✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
I believe the forumers have already determined that bolt escape is the same as dodge roll through careful testing using the most rigorous of anecdotes.rfennell_ESO wrote: »I can't believe that your a Sorc and your actually complaining about NBs. That's like a billionaire complaing about paying taxes.
I'll clue you in on a little secret.
The good NB's can take down the shield, stun you and kill you before you can even react.
I know that's definitely a secret you aren't aware of.
That's more based on the reaction speed of the Sorc. If you break CC right away you can BE away and restack your shields. And before you say it, no an NB should not be one-shotting you. Even assuming the NB is specifically stacking wep damage and is set up for ganking, SA only does 7k damage. Internal cooldowns on skills and auto attacks prevent massive amounts of damage from happening in a short time.
...
Did you just say there is no burst damage at all?
Btw, after the CC break you roll dodge, not Bolt Escape, or you are dead.POST EQVITEM SEDET ATRA CVRA
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
EP ※ Teargrants ※
EP ※ Kissgrants ※
DC ※ Kirsi ※
※ Vehemence Council ※
※ #JustOutOfRenderRange ※
~Teargrants YouTube~
┬┴┬┴┤(･_├┬┴┬┴2 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭That's more based on the reaction speed of the Sorc. If you break CC right away you can BE away and restack your shields. And before you say it, no an NB should not be one-shotting you. Even assuming the NB is specifically stacking wep damage and is set up for ganking, SA only does 7k damage. Internal cooldowns on skills and auto attacks prevent massive amounts of damage from happening in a short time.
Oh some of the hardcore ganker nightblades can take a sorc down before any reaction is possible if they are coming from stealth. You are dead as you break free... it's not a one shot, no. But there are nighblades set up to gank fast and they have pretty good odds at being successful, even versus sorcs.
3 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I animation cancel my Hardened Ward with a Bolt Escape into a Dodge roll while I launch a 25K Crystal fragment mid-roll at my opponent. By the time I come out of my dodge roll the magicka cost of my Bolt Escape, Hardened Ward, and Crystal fragment have already been replenished by my 5K Magicka regen.
Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube3 -
Teargrants✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
I'm glad you finally admitted it, but don't forget the part where you animation cancel swap to overload bar And light atk weave between every action, and your OP Altmer racials boosting your lightning dmg to do enough to kill ppl from 50% with disintegration like Jesus Beam.I animation cancel my Hardened Ward with a Bolt Escape into a Dodge roll while I launch a 25K Crystal fragment mid-roll at my opponent. By the time I come out of my dodge roll the magicka cost of my Bolt Escape, Hardened Ward, and Crystal fragment have already been replenished by my 5K Magicka regen.POST EQVITEM SEDET ATRA CVRA
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
EP ※ Teargrants ※
EP ※ Kissgrants ※
DC ※ Kirsi ※
※ Vehemence Council ※
※ #JustOutOfRenderRange ※
~Teargrants YouTube~
┬┴┬┴┤(･_├┬┴┬┴0 -
Stamden✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yeah pretty good odds indeed. But it is very possible to survive a NB attack, especially as a Sorc. As I described above you just need fast reactions and BE away. Internal cooldowns add a fair bit of counterplay to insta-burst tactics. When you look at the micro level gameplay, you can certianly get out, even if the NB is getting good light weaves everytime. The most common NB attack from stealth would looks like this:rfennell_ESO wrote: »That's more based on the reaction speed of the Sorc. If you break CC right away you can BE away and restack your shields. And before you say it, no an NB should not be one-shotting you. Even assuming the NB is specifically stacking wep damage and is set up for ganking, SA only does 7k damage. Internal cooldowns on skills and auto attacks prevent massive amounts of damage from happening in a short time.
Oh some of the hardcore ganker nightblades can take a sorc down before any reaction is possible if they are coming from stealth. You are dead as you break free... it's not a one shot, no. But there are nighblades set up to gank fast and they have pretty good odds at being successful, even versus sorcs.
Ambush (5000)
animation, ~0.4
sleep, 1
Light Attack (2500)
Suprise Attack (7000)
sleep, 1
Light Attack (2500)
Fear (0) or Suprise Attack (7000)
repeat..
(x) = damage
sleep, 1 = represents internal cooldown, which is roughly 1 second
And yes the internal cooldown starts after you hit with Ambush, this is tested.
There is no reason you can't BE from the first Ambush entirely, but I'll assume the Sorc does not have some godlike reactions. I've seen it happen before, but that most likely happens because they live on the West Coast and have low enough ping. In which case that means they take the Ambush damage and the first LA + SA (14500) combo in 2.4 secoonds total. This is the time that the Sorc should be BE away, templars shielding, or DKs GDBing. Everyone can survive these 2.4 seconds and IMO this is the kind of thing that seperates the good players from the bad. Unfortunately, most of the people in Cyrodiil fall into the latter.
PC NA
~Currently taking a break from the game until my DK can become something more than just a crafter~1 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You don't see to have much clue of ganking, that much even I can tell from looking at that combo.
@DDuke , can you speak a word here? You can complain about damage shields afterwards if you want.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Yeah pretty good odds indeed. But it is very possible to survive a NB attack, especially as a Sorc. As I described above you just need fast reactions and BE away. Internal cooldowns add a fair bit of counterplay to insta-burst tactics. When you look at the micro level gameplay, you can certianly get out, even if the NB is getting good light weaves everytime. The most common NB attack from stealth would looks like this:rfennell_ESO wrote: »That's more based on the reaction speed of the Sorc. If you break CC right away you can BE away and restack your shields. And before you say it, no an NB should not be one-shotting you. Even assuming the NB is specifically stacking wep damage and is set up for ganking, SA only does 7k damage. Internal cooldowns on skills and auto attacks prevent massive amounts of damage from happening in a short time.
Oh some of the hardcore ganker nightblades can take a sorc down before any reaction is possible if they are coming from stealth. You are dead as you break free... it's not a one shot, no. But there are nighblades set up to gank fast and they have pretty good odds at being successful, even versus sorcs.
Ambush (5000)
animation, ~0.4
sleep, 1
Light Attack (2500)
Suprise Attack (7000)
sleep, 1
Light Attack (2500)
Fear (0) or Suprise Attack (7000)
repeat..
(x) = damage
sleep, 1 = represents internal cooldown, which is roughly 1 second
And yes the internal cooldown starts after you hit with Ambush, this is tested.
There is no reason you can't BE from the first Ambush entirely, but I'll assume the Sorc does not have some godlike reactions. I've seen it happen before, but that most likely happens because they live on the West Coast and have low enough ping. In which case that means they take the Ambush damage and the first LA + SA (14500) combo in 2.4 secoonds total. This is the time that the Sorc should be BE away, templars shielding, or DKs GDBing. Everyone can survive these 2.4 seconds and IMO this is the kind of thing that seperates the good players from the bad. Unfortunately, most of the people in Cyrodiil fall into the latter.
Why would you waste the bonus damage of an Ambush on a light attack? Wouldn't it make far more sense to use a Soul-Harvest/Incapacitating strike then a Dark Cloak - Surprise attack to fracture armor? Unless you're ambushing them from right on top of them I'm relatively certain by the time your ambush hits your next ability can be used right after.
I mean I'm only a L21 NB right now but that's been my experience.
Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube1 -
Stamden✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yes Incapacitating Strike can be swapped out for Suprise Attack at any time for more damage, although it's a cheap ultimate it isn't always up. The 20% damage boost is better then SA armor reduction, but the damage boost doesn't last for very long while the armor reduction lasts for 17.3 seconds. They pretty much fulfill the same roll so just use Incapacitating Strike over SA if it's up.
Yeah pretty good odds indeed. But it is very possible to survive a NB attack, especially as a Sorc. As I described above you just need fast reactions and BE away. Internal cooldowns add a fair bit of counterplay to insta-burst tactics. When you look at the micro level gameplay, you can certianly get out, even if the NB is getting good light weaves everytime. The most common NB attack from stealth would looks like this:rfennell_ESO wrote: »That's more based on the reaction speed of the Sorc. If you break CC right away you can BE away and restack your shields. And before you say it, no an NB should not be one-shotting you. Even assuming the NB is specifically stacking wep damage and is set up for ganking, SA only does 7k damage. Internal cooldowns on skills and auto attacks prevent massive amounts of damage from happening in a short time.
Oh some of the hardcore ganker nightblades can take a sorc down before any reaction is possible if they are coming from stealth. You are dead as you break free... it's not a one shot, no. But there are nighblades set up to gank fast and they have pretty good odds at being successful, even versus sorcs.
Ambush (5000)
animation, ~0.4
sleep, 1
Light Attack (2500)
Suprise Attack (7000)
sleep, 1
Light Attack (2500)
Fear (0) or Suprise Attack (7000)
repeat..
(x) = damage
sleep, 1 = represents internal cooldown, which is roughly 1 second
And yes the internal cooldown starts after you hit with Ambush, this is tested.
There is no reason you can't BE from the first Ambush entirely, but I'll assume the Sorc does not have some godlike reactions. I've seen it happen before, but that most likely happens because they live on the West Coast and have low enough ping. In which case that means they take the Ambush damage and the first LA + SA (14500) combo in 2.4 secoonds total. This is the time that the Sorc should be BE away, templars shielding, or DKs GDBing. Everyone can survive these 2.4 seconds and IMO this is the kind of thing that seperates the good players from the bad. Unfortunately, most of the people in Cyrodiil fall into the latter.
Why would you waste the bonus damage of an Ambush on a light attack? Wouldn't it make far more sense to use a Soul-Harvest/Incapacitating strike then a Dark Cloak - Surprise attack to fracture armor? Unless you're ambushing them from right on top of them I'm relatively certain by the time your ambush hits your next ability can be used right after.
I mean I'm only a L21 NB right now but that's been my experience.
The Ambush bonus damage is better off getting wasted, as 20% of 7000 damage is 1400, where as an auto attack would be around 2500. So you're better of just light attack weaving.PC NA
~Currently taking a break from the game until my DK can become something more than just a crafter~1 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Just nerf BoL to interrupt only 1 magic projectile, and buff templars. Will be enough for me.0 -
PainfulFAFA✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorcerers are clearly the most dominate class in PvP. Wether you judge off playing the game, popular opinion, leaderboards, etc; their dominance is indisputable and this post is not here to debate about it. This post is in regards to reasonable way to tone down the class while keeping them viable.
The biggest thing that feels different when I play a Sorc is that they don't really have a main weakness. Other classes seem to be missing something (DKs missing an escape, NBs missing defensive ability/self heal, etc). Sorcs have great Offense with things like Frags, velocious Curse, mages fury. Great defense with shield stacking and BoL morph. And great mobility with Bolt escape. There class abilities also synergies with each other really well with things like CF proc.
One of the major balancing points of any game is to make sure a character or class cannot perform all 3 of these aspects at once. Take League of Legends for example. If a character is mobile, then it's is penalized with lower HP and defenses. Likewise, if a character is has a lot of offense/defense, then it typically isn't mobile. Every other class in this game follows this rule too:
DK:
Yes: Damage, Defence
No: Escape/Mobility
Templar:
Yes: Damage, Defence
No: Escape/Mobility
NB:
Yes: Damage, Escape/Mobility
No: Defence
Sorc
Yes: Damage, Defence, Escape/Mobility
No: ?
Do you see the problem? No other class has anything close to what Sorcs have in mobility, yet Sorcs are not penalized in any kind of way for it. Shield stacking is way too strong and Bolt Escape can be spammed way too much without soft caps. This is why 1.6 benefitted Sorcs so much. Every other class has to balance out either stamina or magika with health, but shields alone make health irrelevant for Sorc. You can keep stacking magika and gain more offense, defense, and mobility. Either shield stacking or BE need to go completely, or they both need to be toned down. Considering BE is unique to Sorcs it makes sense to leave that be, meaning the best course of action would be to adjust shields. My top changes Zenimax could make to tone down Sorcs are as follows:
1. Make all shields scale off health.
2. Add a small cast time to shields so they can't be spammed as easily and there is counterplay to them (interrupting)
3. Add increasing mana cost per BE if cast within x amount of seconds (think Kassadin)
Thoughts?
Do people even CC? Seriously, people crying for nerf when all they gotta do is CC a sorc and do damage. Rinse repeat. If he tries to bolt again have a gap closer ready. By this time, that sorc is out of magicka AND that bolt escape is not only COSTING MORE it decreases our MAGICKA REGEN for a bit.
Absolutely no reason to nerf sorcs.
Dk's have shields, flap flap, SELF HEALS, and nice passives that gives them RESOURCES ,ULTI, and Stamina back. I don't understand how a DK can lose to a Sorc...
NB have fear, invisible, miss chance, infinite dodge roll, 100% CRIT. My deaths are almost always caused by NBs.
Templars have self heals, biting jabs, biting jabs, biting jabs. Oh and unstable core. Sorcs dont like unstable cores. And just in case , they have RD to finish it off...
In the end, you need to find ways to counter the Sorc meta. Only sorcs know their weaknesses but why should they give them away? I just gave you some tips above that may help you....
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]Edited by ZOS_ArtG on 1 May 2015 20:521 -
Ara_Valleria✭✭✭✭✭°‡° ÁDAMANT °‡°
The Addon Abusers, Exploiters & Macro'ers Refuge•••• | Ara Valleria - AD NightBlade | Templàra Valleria - AD Templar | Åra Valleria - AD DragonKnight | Ára V - AD DragonKnight | Ara Laifu - DC NightBlade | Ara Waifu - EP Sorcerer | ••••
••••••| YOUTUBE |••••••Want to take a break from all the Lagging|Crashing|Cancer ?
Play Albion Online1 -
Teargrants✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ara_Valleria wrote: »
POST EQVITEM SEDET ATRA CVRA
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
EP ※ Teargrants ※
EP ※ Kissgrants ※
DC ※ Kirsi ※
※ Vehemence Council ※
※ #JustOutOfRenderRange ※
~Teargrants YouTube~
┬┴┬┴┤(･_├┬┴┬┴0 -
Ezareth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Permanently banned from the forums for displaying dissent: ESO - The Year Behind
Too Much Bolt Escape - banned for "hacking the game to create movement not otherwise permitted by in game mechanics."
Ezareth VR16 AD Sorc - Rank 36 - Axe NA
Ezareth-Ali VR16 DC NB - Rank 20 - Chillrend NA
Ezareth PvP on Youtube1 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭Teargrants wrote: »I believe the forumers have already determined that bolt escape is the same as dodge roll through careful testing using the most rigorous of anecdotes.
Disabling the grass may improve performance.0 -
Stamden✭✭✭✭✭
✭Teargrants wrote: »Ara_Valleria wrote: »
I mean, yeah this makes sense. First of all NBs are by far the most popular class in the game. Second of all, NBs are the only ones who have a chance at dealing with Sorcs. Templars get wrecked, DKs can fight back but won't kill you, and other Sorcs you shouldn't die too if your better then them. NBs are the only class that have a chance at killing Sorcs before the shields get too ridiculous.PC NA
~Currently taking a break from the game until my DK can become something more than just a crafter~1 -
Snit✭✭✭✭✭
✭NBs are the only class that have a chance at killing Sorcs before the shields get too ridiculous.
Magicka DK's remain a hard counter to most sorc builds. Due to the general popularity of stamina builds, there are a lot fewer magicka DK's now, but good ones can still use Reflective Scales/ Dragon's Blood to negate most of a sorc's damage.
Heck, anyone who loads up with some combinbation of Harnessed Ward/ Nirnhoned/ proper gap closers/ CC skills enters any fight against sorcs with a considerable advantage, ceteris paribus.Snit AD Sorc
Ratbag AD Warden Tank
Goblins AD Stamblade3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY