How to balance Sorcs

Ezareth

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm not here on the forums complaining about it though. NBs hit like trucks.

Neighbor wrote: »

Your telling me your complaining because an ultimate did as much damage as your ranged, super-cheap instacast CC nuke?
Sorc mentality, ladies and gentlemen.

Nightblade mentality, ladies and gentlemen. They read as well as they play.

Ezareth

Soulac wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Itoq wrote: »

Hits? Yes. Regular? No.

I'll take your Crystal Fragments and raise you a Soul Harvest. This guy was insta-gibbing me and my group from stealth all night through my shields. Keep in mind this was *through* 32,000 Magicka Resist. I'm not here on the forums complaining about it though. NBs hit like trucks.

Stamina NB, the ultimate doesn't care about your spell resistance.
You got like 8k armor (?) what did you expect?
Since it deals >14k dmg it's probably buffed with Ambush and cloak (as Khajiit or Bosmer for 10% dmg boost)
Also if canceled with bash it's added together in your recap (I think :P)

Now show us your spammable range ultimate which deals the same amount of dmg.
It's reflectable but just use it out of stealth like NBs need to do?


I really hate this kind of threads.. Mimimimimi everywhere.

Ahh didn't know Soul Harvest does magick damage to armor, good to know, but I had 14-16K armor when he was doing this to me not 8K. Not really my point. A NB can hit this *every* time and I can't mitigate or prevent it. This guy was doing this to us all night. Point is, if you're a nightblade and complaining about Sorcs and damage shields you're just not playing your class very well. I killed this guy as much as he killed me but it cost me about 40 detect pots on the night and without them I couldn't have done a thing to kill him. I'm fine with that too.

I'd just love to know what you Nerf Sorc banwagoner Nightblades think a fair place for sorcs should be? I'm running 5 V14 Legendary light armor, 2 VR14 legendary heavy pieces(chest + boots) and a V14 Legendary shield, plus most the time I'm in lightning form giving me another 6K armor. Nightblades who are actually skilled kill me all the time and yet you guys want to nerf us further. I've fought many skilled NB to a standstill for a good 10 minutes, they can't kill me and I can't kill them.
Where does that leave the non-hardcore perfectly geared and unskilled sorc? Just NB AP Pinata I guess.

I'm not complaining about Nightblades or trying to get them nerfed though. (Although the fear when dodge rolling bug needs fixed). I'm fine with people who are skilled killing me when I make a single mistake or am not prepared for them. That's how it should be. The classes are balanced at top end of the game. The real issue is all the people who are still trying to make bad builds/playstyles work against skilled opponents and those who aren't very skilled are complaining as they've done since the launch of this game. Tamriel Unlimited has brought back a lot of those players and it's going to take months until they are brought up to par if they ever are.

Forestd16b14_ESO

ToRelax wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Again take away shield stacking and sorc..... really any class or player wont be as op..... Won't object to some skill tweeking like that stupid streak but never a less get rid of shield stacking and watch how squishy alot of players not just sorc become.

I understand shields are as LA users love to say " there only def " but when they stack it to the point of taking 7 attacks from 7 diffrent players at once and able to insta stack again and dieing after 10 minutes of straight attacks it needs to be fixed.

Yeah but how else would a sorc be able to tank though. Zos nerfed light armour so it wouldnt protect them for some reason. They would die without that if their dps was lower and they didbt have BoL


Give them a chance.

Then use a shield or heavy armor. Look i'm not saying make damage shield useless but what they are right now there beyond tanking there at never able to die levels. They need to be useable and useful with out being broken. Maybe give them a boost in how much damage the take like say from taking 3000 damage to 6000 but they be like the major and minor stuff where the stronger one replaces the minor one. Like every skill uses that system now why not damage shields why do they get stacked to take 30,000 damage.

Not saying make them useless just don't make it were a player stacks 30k shields.

The only thing that would change for me is that I can't stack my heal with my shield, wich wouldn't make much sense.
I am certainly not an easy Sorc to kill but I am certainly not "never able to die" either.
Most Sorcs, except a very few who indeed are indeed "tanking", with heavy armor and shield (and I am speaking of a minority of the heavy armor Sorcs here) are very squishy if there are just 2 enemies beating on them.
Obviously a good Sorc will try to not let them hit him to often in the first place, wich hasn't changed since launch.

Very true with out shields LA uses are squishy but that's the point and the point of a huge magical boost LA gives you give up the protection. Cause what does a HA armor get for giving up magical or stamina boost? A boost to health which really doesn't do much when players are doing massive DPS.

Normaly when a player wears light armor there normaly on the back line casting range spell attacks supporting those who are infront protecting them. But with how shields are they can be on the front lines with LA still not dieing out lasting HA users with shields. Like i am not saying stay on the back line but if you're gonna be on the front line try a battle mage set up mixing heavy and light armor you know mix it up instead of cookie cutter builds depending heavyly on shield stacking giving all sorc a bad name when it's just those ones abusing a clearly broken skill.

ToRelax

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Again take away shield stacking and sorc..... really any class or player wont be as op..... Won't object to some skill tweeking like that stupid streak but never a less get rid of shield stacking and watch how squishy alot of players not just sorc become.

I understand shields are as LA users love to say " there only def " but when they stack it to the point of taking 7 attacks from 7 diffrent players at once and able to insta stack again and dieing after 10 minutes of straight attacks it needs to be fixed.

Yeah but how else would a sorc be able to tank though. Zos nerfed light armour so it wouldnt protect them for some reason. They would die without that if their dps was lower and they didbt have BoL


Give them a chance.

Then use a shield or heavy armor. Look i'm not saying make damage shield useless but what they are right now there beyond tanking there at never able to die levels. They need to be useable and useful with out being broken. Maybe give them a boost in how much damage the take like say from taking 3000 damage to 6000 but they be like the major and minor stuff where the stronger one replaces the minor one. Like every skill uses that system now why not damage shields why do they get stacked to take 30,000 damage.

Not saying make them useless just don't make it were a player stacks 30k shields.

The only thing that would change for me is that I can't stack my heal with my shield, wich wouldn't make much sense.
I am certainly not an easy Sorc to kill but I am certainly not "never able to die" either.
Most Sorcs, except a very few who indeed are indeed "tanking", with heavy armor and shield (and I am speaking of a minority of the heavy armor Sorcs here) are very squishy if there are just 2 enemies beating on them.
Obviously a good Sorc will try to not let them hit him to often in the first place, wich hasn't changed since launch.

Very true with out shields LA uses are squishy but that's the point and the point of a huge magical boost LA gives you give up the protection. Cause what does a HA armor get for giving up magical or stamina boost? A boost to health which really doesn't do much when players are doing massive DPS.

Normaly when a player wears light armor there normaly on the back line casting range spell attacks supporting those who are infront protecting them. But with how shields are they can be on the front lines with LA still not dieing out lasting HA users with shields. Like i am not saying stay on the back line but if you're gonna be on the front line try a battle mage set up mixing heavy and light armor you know mix it up instead of cookie cutter builds depending heavyly on shield stacking giving all sorc a bad name when it's just those ones abusing a clearly broken skill.

I am pretty sure you have never fought me or don't know who I am.

Anyway, heavy armor has 20% block cost reduction. That is the main reason why my friend is now running 5 heavy on his DK most of the time. You can not tank with shields and no blocking. Heavy armor complements an actual tank very well now, it's other things that still make tanking pretty hard now.

Joy_Division

Ezareth wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Itoq wrote: »

Hits? Yes. Regular? No.

I'll take your Crystal Fragments and raise you a Soul Harvest. This guy was insta-gibbing me and my group from stealth all night through my shields. Keep in mind this was *through* 32,000 Magicka Resist. I'm not here on the forums complaining about it though. NBs hit like trucks.

Stamina NB, the ultimate doesn't care about your spell resistance.
You got like 8k armor (?) what did you expect?
Since it deals >14k dmg it's probably buffed with Ambush and cloak (as Khajiit or Bosmer for 10% dmg boost)
Also if canceled with bash it's added together in your recap (I think :P)

Now show us your spammable range ultimate which deals the same amount of dmg.
It's reflectable but just use it out of stealth like NBs need to do?


I really hate this kind of threads.. Mimimimimi everywhere.

Ahh didn't know Soul Harvest does magick damage to armor, good to know, but I had 14-16K armor when he was doing this to me not 8K. Not really my point. A NB can hit this *every* time and I can't mitigate or prevent it. This guy was doing this to us all night. Point is, if you're a nightblade and complaining about Sorcs and damage shields you're just not playing your class very well. I killed this guy as much as he killed me but it cost me about 40 detect pots on the night and without them I couldn't have done a thing to kill him. I'm fine with that too.

I'd just love to know what you Nerf Sorc banwagoner Nightblades think a fair place for sorcs should be? I'm running 5 V14 Legendary light armor, 2 VR14 legendary heavy pieces(chest + boots) and a V14 Legendary shield, plus most the time I'm in lightning form giving me another 6K armor. Nightblades who are actually skilled kill me all the time and yet you guys want to nerf us further. I've fought many skilled NB to a standstill for a good 10 minutes, they can't kill me and I can't kill them.
Where does that leave the non-hardcore perfectly geared and unskilled sorc? Just NB AP Pinata I guess.

I'm not complaining about Nightblades or trying to get them nerfed though. (Although the fear when dodge rolling bug needs fixed). I'm fine with people who are skilled killing me when I make a single mistake or am not prepared for them. That's how it should be. The classes are balanced at top end of the game. The real issue is all the people who are still trying to make bad builds/playstyles work against skilled opponents and those who aren't very skilled are complaining as they've done since the launch of this game. Tamriel Unlimited has brought back a lot of those players and it's going to take months until they are brought up to par if they ever are.

Can't speak for the bandwagoner NBs, but when the magicka based sorc is not noticably better than the other magicka based classes, then that IMHO is a "fair place" for them to be in. I will agree with the argument that a stamina-based sorc is probably the worst of the 8 possible class-attribute combinations, but that is an issue specific with the lack of synergy between the class and stamina. And I don't see how if stamina sorcs suck then that is somehow OK for magicka sorcs to above and beyond their magicka based peers.

Ezareth

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Itoq wrote: »

Hits? Yes. Regular? No.

I'll take your Crystal Fragments and raise you a Soul Harvest. This guy was insta-gibbing me and my group from stealth all night through my shields. Keep in mind this was *through* 32,000 Magicka Resist. I'm not here on the forums complaining about it though. NBs hit like trucks.

Stamina NB, the ultimate doesn't care about your spell resistance.
You got like 8k armor (?) what did you expect?
Since it deals >14k dmg it's probably buffed with Ambush and cloak (as Khajiit or Bosmer for 10% dmg boost)
Also if canceled with bash it's added together in your recap (I think :P)

Now show us your spammable range ultimate which deals the same amount of dmg.
It's reflectable but just use it out of stealth like NBs need to do?


I really hate this kind of threads.. Mimimimimi everywhere.

Ahh didn't know Soul Harvest does magick damage to armor, good to know, but I had 14-16K armor when he was doing this to me not 8K. Not really my point. A NB can hit this *every* time and I can't mitigate or prevent it. This guy was doing this to us all night. Point is, if you're a nightblade and complaining about Sorcs and damage shields you're just not playing your class very well. I killed this guy as much as he killed me but it cost me about 40 detect pots on the night and without them I couldn't have done a thing to kill him. I'm fine with that too.

I'd just love to know what you Nerf Sorc banwagoner Nightblades think a fair place for sorcs should be? I'm running 5 V14 Legendary light armor, 2 VR14 legendary heavy pieces(chest + boots) and a V14 Legendary shield, plus most the time I'm in lightning form giving me another 6K armor. Nightblades who are actually skilled kill me all the time and yet you guys want to nerf us further. I've fought many skilled NB to a standstill for a good 10 minutes, they can't kill me and I can't kill them.
Where does that leave the non-hardcore perfectly geared and unskilled sorc? Just NB AP Pinata I guess.

I'm not complaining about Nightblades or trying to get them nerfed though. (Although the fear when dodge rolling bug needs fixed). I'm fine with people who are skilled killing me when I make a single mistake or am not prepared for them. That's how it should be. The classes are balanced at top end of the game. The real issue is all the people who are still trying to make bad builds/playstyles work against skilled opponents and those who aren't very skilled are complaining as they've done since the launch of this game. Tamriel Unlimited has brought back a lot of those players and it's going to take months until they are brought up to par if they ever are.

Can't speak for the bandwagoner NBs, but when the magicka based sorc is not noticably better than the other magicka based classes, then that IMHO is a "fair place" for them to be in. I will agree with the argument that a stamina-based sorc is probably the worst of the 8 possible class-attribute combinations, but that is an issue specific with the lack of synergy between the class and stamina. And I don't see how if stamina sorcs suck then that is somehow OK for magicka sorcs to above and beyond their magicka based peers.

So let me get this straight. You think Magicka Sorcs need nerfed because they're better than Magicka NBs? Forget how they stack up against stamina builds but you're seriously concerned about how the Magicka class's magicka build stacks up against the Stamina class's magick build? Tell me I'm misunderstanding this...

Stamden

Ezareth wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm not here on the forums complaining about it though. NBs hit like trucks.

Neighbor wrote: »

Your telling me your complaining because an ultimate did as much damage as your ranged, super-cheap instacast CC nuke?
Sorc mentality, ladies and gentlemen.

Nightblade mentality, ladies and gentlemen. They read as well as they play.

Ezareth wrote: »

This guy was insta-gibbing me and my group
NBs hit like trucks.

Yeah cause that is not a complaint or anything.

Stamden

Ezareth wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Itoq wrote: »

Hits? Yes. Regular? No.

I'll take your Crystal Fragments and raise you a Soul Harvest. This guy was insta-gibbing me and my group from stealth all night through my shields. Keep in mind this was *through* 32,000 Magicka Resist. I'm not here on the forums complaining about it though. NBs hit like trucks.

Stamina NB, the ultimate doesn't care about your spell resistance.
You got like 8k armor (?) what did you expect?
Since it deals >14k dmg it's probably buffed with Ambush and cloak (as Khajiit or Bosmer for 10% dmg boost)
Also if canceled with bash it's added together in your recap (I think :P)

Now show us your spammable range ultimate which deals the same amount of dmg.
It's reflectable but just use it out of stealth like NBs need to do?


I really hate this kind of threads.. Mimimimimi everywhere.

Ahh didn't know Soul Harvest does magick damage to armor, good to know, but I had 14-16K armor when he was doing this to me not 8K. Not really my point. A NB can hit this *every* time and I can't mitigate or prevent it. This guy was doing this to us all night. Point is, if you're a nightblade and complaining about Sorcs and damage shields you're just not playing your class very well. I killed this guy as much as he killed me but it cost me about 40 detect pots on the night and without them I couldn't have done a thing to kill him. I'm fine with that too.

I'd just love to know what you Nerf Sorc banwagoner Nightblades think a fair place for sorcs should be? I'm running 5 V14 Legendary light armor, 2 VR14 legendary heavy pieces(chest + boots) and a V14 Legendary shield, plus most the time I'm in lightning form giving me another 6K armor. Nightblades who are actually skilled kill me all the time and yet you guys want to nerf us further. I've fought many skilled NB to a standstill for a good 10 minutes, they can't kill me and I can't kill them.
Where does that leave the non-hardcore perfectly geared and unskilled sorc? Just NB AP Pinata I guess.

I'm not complaining about Nightblades or trying to get them nerfed though. (Although the fear when dodge rolling bug needs fixed). I'm fine with people who are skilled killing me when I make a single mistake or am not prepared for them. That's how it should be. The classes are balanced at top end of the game. The real issue is all the people who are still trying to make bad builds/playstyles work against skilled opponents and those who aren't very skilled are complaining as they've done since the launch of this game. Tamriel Unlimited has brought back a lot of those players and it's going to take months until they are brought up to par if they ever are.

Can't speak for the bandwagoner NBs, but when the magicka based sorc is not noticably better than the other magicka based classes, then that IMHO is a "fair place" for them to be in. I will agree with the argument that a stamina-based sorc is probably the worst of the 8 possible class-attribute combinations, but that is an issue specific with the lack of synergy between the class and stamina. And I don't see how if stamina sorcs suck then that is somehow OK for magicka sorcs to above and beyond their magicka based peers.

So let me get this straight. You think Magicka Sorcs need nerfed because they're better than Magicka NBs? Forget how they stack up against stamina builds but you're seriously concerned about how the Magicka class's magicka build stacks up against the Stamina class's magick build? Tell me I'm misunderstanding this...

He's right. Magika builds are currently terrible in comparison to Stam builds in PvP. Sorcs are so overpowered that it cancels out, but right now Temp/NB/DK caster PvP builds are really weak. This is why it's so important to balance Sorcs first, cause then stuff like Nirn and other magika classes can be changed without having to worry about Sorcs getting even more OP

Kypho

Balance sorcs?

1. Increase magic wards with 200%
2. Increase all class spell damage with 25%
3. Remove cost of all class abilities
4. 300% more armor to light armor
5. 65% more proc chance to crystal fragment
6. Immunity to all Bow abilities

Sign this!

Kypho

Erock25 wrote: »

NBs are more overpowered than Sorc, thanks.

Balance NB:

1. Remove cloak
2. NB should not be able to go stealth at all
3. Remove NB class heals
4. All NB class damage should be lowered with 50%
5. Remove all NB passives
6. NB shall not be able to roll
7. NB shall auto lose vs Sorcerers done in 80%-90%
8. NB should not be able to use bow

Sign this too!!

ToRelax

Just to clear that up, this troll was whining in Arena, too, just wants his NB OP and all others nerfed...

Joy_Division

Ezareth wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Itoq wrote: »

Hits? Yes. Regular? No.

I'll take your Crystal Fragments and raise you a Soul Harvest. This guy was insta-gibbing me and my group from stealth all night through my shields. Keep in mind this was *through* 32,000 Magicka Resist. I'm not here on the forums complaining about it though. NBs hit like trucks.

Stamina NB, the ultimate doesn't care about your spell resistance.
You got like 8k armor (?) what did you expect?
Since it deals >14k dmg it's probably buffed with Ambush and cloak (as Khajiit or Bosmer for 10% dmg boost)
Also if canceled with bash it's added together in your recap (I think :P)

Now show us your spammable range ultimate which deals the same amount of dmg.
It's reflectable but just use it out of stealth like NBs need to do?


I really hate this kind of threads.. Mimimimimi everywhere.

Ahh didn't know Soul Harvest does magick damage to armor, good to know, but I had 14-16K armor when he was doing this to me not 8K. Not really my point. A NB can hit this *every* time and I can't mitigate or prevent it. This guy was doing this to us all night. Point is, if you're a nightblade and complaining about Sorcs and damage shields you're just not playing your class very well. I killed this guy as much as he killed me but it cost me about 40 detect pots on the night and without them I couldn't have done a thing to kill him. I'm fine with that too.

I'd just love to know what you Nerf Sorc banwagoner Nightblades think a fair place for sorcs should be? I'm running 5 V14 Legendary light armor, 2 VR14 legendary heavy pieces(chest + boots) and a V14 Legendary shield, plus most the time I'm in lightning form giving me another 6K armor. Nightblades who are actually skilled kill me all the time and yet you guys want to nerf us further. I've fought many skilled NB to a standstill for a good 10 minutes, they can't kill me and I can't kill them.
Where does that leave the non-hardcore perfectly geared and unskilled sorc? Just NB AP Pinata I guess.

I'm not complaining about Nightblades or trying to get them nerfed though. (Although the fear when dodge rolling bug needs fixed). I'm fine with people who are skilled killing me when I make a single mistake or am not prepared for them. That's how it should be. The classes are balanced at top end of the game. The real issue is all the people who are still trying to make bad builds/playstyles work against skilled opponents and those who aren't very skilled are complaining as they've done since the launch of this game. Tamriel Unlimited has brought back a lot of those players and it's going to take months until they are brought up to par if they ever are.

Can't speak for the bandwagoner NBs, but when the magicka based sorc is not noticably better than the other magicka based classes, then that IMHO is a "fair place" for them to be in. I will agree with the argument that a stamina-based sorc is probably the worst of the 8 possible class-attribute combinations, but that is an issue specific with the lack of synergy between the class and stamina. And I don't see how if stamina sorcs suck then that is somehow OK for magicka sorcs to above and beyond their magicka based peers.

So let me get this straight. You think Magicka Sorcs need nerfed because they're better than Magicka NBs? Forget how they stack up against stamina builds but you're seriously concerned about how the Magicka class's magicka build stacks up against the Stamina class's magick build? Tell me I'm misunderstanding this...

No. I think Magicka Sorcs are noticably better than the other magicka based classes. My exact words.

Magicka Vs. stamina is another topic entirely and that inequality should not be used as a reason why magicka based sorcs should enjoy their lofty status above other magicka based classes.

Ezareth

Neighbor wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm not here on the forums complaining about it though. NBs hit like trucks.

Neighbor wrote: »

Your telling me your complaining because an ultimate did as much damage as your ranged, super-cheap instacast CC nuke?
Sorc mentality, ladies and gentlemen.

Nightblade mentality, ladies and gentlemen. They read as well as they play.

Ezareth wrote: »

This guy was insta-gibbing me and my group
NBs hit like trucks.

Yeah cause that is not a complaint or anything.

Actually it isn't, which is exactly why I said in the text you removed that I wasn't complaining just to clarify it for those of you in Rio Linda.

Perhaps I should have said something like "this guy was tickling me and my group to death" or "Dying to a NB is like being run over by a Smart Car?"

Joy_Division wrote: »

No. I think Magicka Sorcs are noticably better than the other magicka based classes. My exact words.

Magicka Vs. stamina is another topic entirely and that inequality should not be used as a reason why magicka based sorcs should enjoy their lofty status above other magicka based classes.

So by your same logic you think Nightblades deserve to be nerfed since they are noticably better than other stamina based classes?

The point is you don't balance classes against specific categories. Templar are the other chief magicka class and they are just relatively weak compared to everyone. Magicka nightblades are not bad by any stretch but their skills just don't synergize with the class as well as stamina does but it still does far more so than the terrible Stamina sorc.

Stamden

Ezareth wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm not here on the forums complaining about it though. NBs hit like trucks.

Neighbor wrote: »

Your telling me your complaining because an ultimate did as much damage as your ranged, super-cheap instacast CC nuke?
Sorc mentality, ladies and gentlemen.

Nightblade mentality, ladies and gentlemen. They read as well as they play.

Ezareth wrote: »

This guy was insta-gibbing me and my group
NBs hit like trucks.

Yeah cause that is not a complaint or anything.

Actually it isn't, which is exactly why I said in the text you removed that I wasn't complaining just to clarify it for those of you in Rio Linda.

Perhaps I should have said something like "this guy was tickling me and my group to death" or "Dying to a NB is like being run over by a Smart Car?"

Joy_Division wrote: »

No. I think Magicka Sorcs are noticably better than the other magicka based classes. My exact words.

Magicka Vs. stamina is another topic entirely and that inequality should not be used as a reason why magicka based sorcs should enjoy their lofty status above other magicka based classes.

So by your same logic you think Nightblades deserve to be nerfed since they are noticably better than other stamina based classes?

The point is you don't balance classes against specific categories. Templar are the other chief magicka class and they are just relatively weak compared to everyone. Magicka nightblades are not bad by any stretch but their skills just don't synergize with the class as well as stamina does but it still does far more so than the terrible Stamina sorc.

Not really. Every class has access to WB and dodge roll. Only one class has access to Crystal Frags and Bolt Escape.

Ezareth

Neighbor wrote: »

Not really. Every class has access to WB and dodge roll. Only one class has access to Crystal Frags and Bolt Escape.

Thank you for that illuminating piece of logic captain obvious. Are there any other earth shattering revelations you have in mind? Perhaps a point?

Kypho

ToRelax wrote: »

Just to clear that up, this troll was whining in Arena, too, just wants his NB OP and all others nerfed...

Which troll was that? Arena was full of sorcerer QQ and trolls, so i dont know who do you mean. And dont know why should that troll play NB or make it OP, its a big crap class as it is.
I guess the troll is a sorc because they want MOAR MOAR OPness, and want all others nerfed more.

And be proud of the Arena, it was full of TrollSorcs, who whining all day while beating any class with closed eyes

Stamden

Ezareth wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Not really. Every class has access to WB and dodge roll. Only one class has access to Crystal Frags and Bolt Escape.

Thank you for that illuminating piece of logic captain obvious. Are there any other earth shattering revelations you have in mind? Perhaps a point?

My point is obvious lol. All stam classes can be competitive with WB and dodge roll. To make magika work successfully, Bolt Escape is essential and overpowered nukes like Crystal Frag widen the gap between classes even more. Other classes don't get a built in nuke and have no ways of escaping easily.

Laerwen

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Itoq wrote: »

Hits? Yes. Regular? No.

I'll take your Crystal Fragments and raise you a Soul Harvest. This guy was insta-gibbing me and my group from stealth all night through my shields. Keep in mind this was *through* 32,000 Magicka Resist. I'm not here on the forums complaining about it though. NBs hit like trucks.

Stamina NB, the ultimate doesn't care about your spell resistance.
You got like 8k armor (?) what did you expect?
Since it deals >14k dmg it's probably buffed with Ambush and cloak (as Khajiit or Bosmer for 10% dmg boost)
Also if canceled with bash it's added together in your recap (I think :P)

Now show us your spammable range ultimate which deals the same amount of dmg.
It's reflectable but just use it out of stealth like NBs need to do?


I really hate this kind of threads.. Mimimimimi everywhere.

Ahh didn't know Soul Harvest does magick damage to armor, good to know, but I had 14-16K armor when he was doing this to me not 8K. Not really my point. A NB can hit this *every* time and I can't mitigate or prevent it. This guy was doing this to us all night. Point is, if you're a nightblade and complaining about Sorcs and damage shields you're just not playing your class very well. I killed this guy as much as he killed me but it cost me about 40 detect pots on the night and without them I couldn't have done a thing to kill him. I'm fine with that too.

I'd just love to know what you Nerf Sorc banwagoner Nightblades think a fair place for sorcs should be? I'm running 5 V14 Legendary light armor, 2 VR14 legendary heavy pieces(chest + boots) and a V14 Legendary shield, plus most the time I'm in lightning form giving me another 6K armor. Nightblades who are actually skilled kill me all the time and yet you guys want to nerf us further. I've fought many skilled NB to a standstill for a good 10 minutes, they can't kill me and I can't kill them.
Where does that leave the non-hardcore perfectly geared and unskilled sorc? Just NB AP Pinata I guess.

I'm not complaining about Nightblades or trying to get them nerfed though. (Although the fear when dodge rolling bug needs fixed). I'm fine with people who are skilled killing me when I make a single mistake or am not prepared for them. That's how it should be. The classes are balanced at top end of the game. The real issue is all the people who are still trying to make bad builds/playstyles work against skilled opponents and those who aren't very skilled are complaining as they've done since the launch of this game. Tamriel Unlimited has brought back a lot of those players and it's going to take months until they are brought up to par if they ever are.

Can't speak for the bandwagoner NBs, but when the magicka based sorc is not noticably better than the other magicka based classes, then that IMHO is a "fair place" for them to be in. I will agree with the argument that a stamina-based sorc is probably the worst of the 8 possible class-attribute combinations, but that is an issue specific with the lack of synergy between the class and stamina. And I don't see how if stamina sorcs suck then that is somehow OK for magicka sorcs to above and beyond their magicka based peers.

So let me get this straight. You think Magicka Sorcs need nerfed because they're better than Magicka NBs? Forget how they stack up against stamina builds but you're seriously concerned about how the Magicka class's magicka build stacks up against the Stamina class's magick build? Tell me I'm misunderstanding this...

No. I think Magicka Sorcs are noticably better than the other magicka based classes. My exact words.

Magicka Vs. stamina is another topic entirely and that inequality should not be used as a reason why magicka based sorcs should enjoy their lofty status above other magicka based classes.

You should see a dr for all that butthurt.

Ezareth

Neighbor wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Not really. Every class has access to WB and dodge roll. Only one class has access to Crystal Frags and Bolt Escape.

Thank you for that illuminating piece of logic captain obvious. Are there any other earth shattering revelations you have in mind? Perhaps a point?

My point is obvious lol. All stam classes can be competitive with WB and dodge roll. To make magika work successfully, Bolt Escape is essential and overpowered nukes like Crystal Frag widen the gap between classes even more. Other classes don't get a built in nuke and have no ways of escaping easily.

I give up. There is no reasoning with these...people.

rfennell_ESO

Ezareth wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Not really. Every class has access to WB and dodge roll. Only one class has access to Crystal Frags and Bolt Escape.

Thank you for that illuminating piece of logic captain obvious. Are there any other earth shattering revelations you have in mind? Perhaps a point?

My point is obvious lol. All stam classes can be competitive with WB and dodge roll. To make magika work successfully, Bolt Escape is essential and overpowered nukes like Crystal Frag widen the gap between classes even more. Other classes don't get a built in nuke and have no ways of escaping easily.

I give up. There is no reasoning with these...people.

I'm not sure why you tried, they will keep making these threads and lying and lying, sad part is that they think they can affect class change on zos by doing so.

Way I figure it, when you expect a known liar to tell the truth... you might have your expectations totally skewed.

The point to "nerf sorcs" is to make all magicka builds useless and leave nothing but stamina builds. Except for those healer dudes, those clowns can heal the mighty roll dodging uppercut spammer.

bosmern_ESO

Templars got little to no damage.

Stamden

Ezareth wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Not really. Every class has access to WB and dodge roll. Only one class has access to Crystal Frags and Bolt Escape.

Thank you for that illuminating piece of logic captain obvious. Are there any other earth shattering revelations you have in mind? Perhaps a point?

My point is obvious lol. All stam classes can be competitive with WB and dodge roll. To make magika work successfully, Bolt Escape is essential and overpowered nukes like Crystal Frag widen the gap between classes even more. Other classes don't get a built in nuke and have no ways of escaping easily.

I give up. There is no reasoning with these...people.

All you ever do is go off topic when you lose an argumenet. You know Sorcs are what they are and yet you continue to act as if their balanced just for your own sake. Jesus dude stop thinking of yourself for 10 seconds. Even if Shield Stacking gets nerfed and scales off health (which is should!), Sorcs are still going to be the best PvP class by far. No amount of nerfs are going to take Sorcs off their pedistal. Being a long ranged nuker with more mobility then every other class means they are going to be the most suited for PvP regardless.

rfennell_ESO

Neighbor wrote: »

All you ever do is go off topic when you lose an argumenet. You know Sorcs are what they are and yet you continue to act as if their balanced just for your own sake. Jesus dude stop thinking of yourself for 10 seconds. Even if Shield Stacking gets nerfed and scales off health (which is should!), Sorcs are still going to be the best PvP class by far. No amount of nerfs are going to take Sorcs off their pedistal. Being a long ranged nuker with more mobility then every other class means they are going to be the most suited for PvP regardless.

It must be awesome living in a world where you actually think you won the "argumenet"

Stamden

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

All you ever do is go off topic when you lose an argumenet. You know Sorcs are what they are and yet you continue to act as if their balanced just for your own sake. Jesus dude stop thinking of yourself for 10 seconds. Even if Shield Stacking gets nerfed and scales off health (which is should!), Sorcs are still going to be the best PvP class by far. No amount of nerfs are going to take Sorcs off their pedistal. Being a long ranged nuker with more mobility then every other class means they are going to be the most suited for PvP regardless.

It must be awesome living in a world where you actually think you won the "argumenet"

Considering nobody can make a counterargument to anything... even the main points of this post in the first place.

1. Sorcs have no inherint weakness, while other classes have obvious ones. Other classes lack either sustainability, an escape, or mobility, but Sorcs have all of this.

2. By building straight magika Sorcs get sustainability, damage, and mobility. Other classes have to manage which stats they put in where. This means that the removal of softcaps put Sorcs way over the edge just cause they can stack magika as high as they want.

3. Sorcs are by far the best magika class and the disbalance of Sorcs is preventing other magika classes from getting fixed. For example, Nirn shouldn't be as powerful as it is, but if it wasn't, Sorcs would be even more OP.

Do you admit this true? Cause when you just post random, off-topic batman memes and dodge the subject, it makes it look like it. How about actually making a thought out, educated post Sorcs? Is it because you know that it is all correct and you chose to dodge the topic?

Ezareth wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Not really. Every class has access to WB and dodge roll. Only one class has access to Crystal Frags and Bolt Escape.

Thank you for that illuminating piece of logic captain obvious. Are there any other earth shattering revelations you have in mind? Perhaps a point?

My point is obvious lol. All stam classes can be competitive with WB and dodge roll. To make magika work successfully, Bolt Escape is essential and overpowered nukes like Crystal Frag widen the gap between classes even more. Other classes don't get a built in nuke and have no ways of escaping easily.

I give up. There is no reasoning with these...people.

This is exactly what I am talking about. Am I wrong? Do you want to discuss something? Or are you just going to sit there and dodge the topic like you always do?

Soulac

Sorcerer is definitely fine as long as you don't jump in their mines.
In duels I barely lose against Sorcerers, even as Melee Stamina, but if I do its mostly cause mines (triggering more than one by accident..) or weapon swap isn't fast enough to break Soul Strike. (cloak)

To be honest, Sorc is "easy" to play against scrubs, that's the main reason for many players to reroll this class in my opinion.
But in duels you can see that it is indeed kind of balanced, as long as two good player fighting each other.
If you forget your shields or other defense mechanics as Sorc once or if your Stamina drops low, the chance to die is quite high.

Nb op.

AlexDrago

Neighbor wrote: »

This is exactly what I am talking about. Am I wrong? Do you want to discuss something? Or are you just going to sit there and dodge the topic like you always do?

You can discuss mathematics with a man who claims that two by two equals 5. But it is impossible to hold discussions with those who say that two by two equals stearic candle.

NB are OP in PVP, everyone knows that. And they want to be OP and oneshot-sork-kill forever.

Glantir

Nerfing Sorcs wont change anything because it will rise an army of "shadows with red hearts" (Dragonblood) or Yellow Laser beams....

just joking

I would give BoL for a good selfheal or a dps skill. ^^ (dps not burst!)

I dont play much PvP but in PvE I need my Shield (but I'm using Empowerd Ward Morph because it buffs my Twilight) otherwise I cant do AoE or I'm dying 1000 deaths ^^

Change the Hardend Ward Morph in something else, 33% more shield power is a bit to much

Joy_Division

Ezareth wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm not here on the forums complaining about it though. NBs hit like trucks.

Neighbor wrote: »

Your telling me your complaining because an ultimate did as much damage as your ranged, super-cheap instacast CC nuke?
Sorc mentality, ladies and gentlemen.

Nightblade mentality, ladies and gentlemen. They read as well as they play.

Ezareth wrote: »

This guy was insta-gibbing me and my group
NBs hit like trucks.

Yeah cause that is not a complaint or anything.

Actually it isn't, which is exactly why I said in the text you removed that I wasn't complaining just to clarify it for those of you in Rio Linda.

Perhaps I should have said something like "this guy was tickling me and my group to death" or "Dying to a NB is like being run over by a Smart Car?"

Joy_Division wrote: »

No. I think Magicka Sorcs are noticably better than the other magicka based classes. My exact words.

Magicka Vs. stamina is another topic entirely and that inequality should not be used as a reason why magicka based sorcs should enjoy their lofty status above other magicka based classes.

So by your same logic you think Nightblades deserve to be nerfed since they are noticably better than other stamina based classes?

The point is you don't balance classes against specific categories. Templar are the other chief magicka class and they are just relatively weak compared to everyone. Magicka nightblades are not bad by any stretch but their skills just don't synergize with the class as well as stamina does but it still does far more so than the terrible Stamina sorc.

You really do turn every thread that discusses sorcs into a fanatical defense of the status quo. You asked a simple question

I'd just love to know what you Nerf Sorc banwagoner Nightblades think a fair place for sorcs should be?

I gave you a simple answer, namely they shouldn't be noticably better than the other magicka based classes. How is that *not* a "fair place? Are you joking? You are so convinced that NBs, DKs, and stamina users have nothing else better to do than to spread propaganda in a crusade to nerf your class that you derail every single conversation. I never said or implied anything about NBs, YOU think they are noticably better than other stamina based classes, not me; my logic does not apply to your opinions.

You may live in world where it's fine for magicka sorcs to be OP compared to templars who, in your words, are "just relatively weak compared to everyone," because you occasionally die to a soul harvesting NB. I don't. You think my statement meant "nerf sorcs!" when it could just as easily and correctly interpreted as "buff the other magicka classes". But you are so convinced everyone is out to nerf your class, the never really crossed your mind, did it?

Bashev

Glantir wrote: »

I would give BoL for a good selfheal or a dps skill. ^^ (dps not burst!)

You would give it just for 10 minutes and then you will cry for it. This is the only skill that makes Sorc so OP. Fix this skill and everything will be fine. If you cannot escape with bolt escape that means you will stay in range and you will be CC every 6 seconds if you dont use CC potions. That means you have to put some points in stamina and not stacking only magica. Then your shields wont be strong and your dps will suck.

ToRelax

Neighbor wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

All you ever do is go off topic when you lose an argumenet. You know Sorcs are what they are and yet you continue to act as if their balanced just for your own sake. Jesus dude stop thinking of yourself for 10 seconds. Even if Shield Stacking gets nerfed and scales off health (which is should!), Sorcs are still going to be the best PvP class by far. No amount of nerfs are going to take Sorcs off their pedistal. Being a long ranged nuker with more mobility then every other class means they are going to be the most suited for PvP regardless.

It must be awesome living in a world where you actually think you won the "argumenet"

Considering nobody can make a counterargument to anything... even the main points of this post in the first place.

1. Sorcs have no inherint weakness, while other classes have obvious ones. Other classes lack either sustainability, an escape, or mobility, but Sorcs have all of this.

2. By building straight magika Sorcs get sustainability, damage, and mobility. Other classes have to manage which stats they put in where. This means that the removal of softcaps put Sorcs way over the edge just cause they can stack magika as high as they want.

3. Sorcs are by far the best magika class and the disbalance of Sorcs is preventing other magika classes from getting fixed. For example, Nirn shouldn't be as powerful as it is, but if it wasn't, Sorcs would be even more OP.

Do you admit this true? Cause when you just post random, off-topic batman memes and dodge the subject, it makes it look like it. How about actually making a thought out, educated post Sorcs? Is it because you know that it is all correct and you chose to dodge the topic?

Ezareth wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Not really. Every class has access to WB and dodge roll. Only one class has access to Crystal Frags and Bolt Escape.

Thank you for that illuminating piece of logic captain obvious. Are there any other earth shattering revelations you have in mind? Perhaps a point?

My point is obvious lol. All stam classes can be competitive with WB and dodge roll. To make magika work successfully, Bolt Escape is essential and overpowered nukes like Crystal Frag widen the gap between classes even more. Other classes don't get a built in nuke and have no ways of escaping easily.

I give up. There is no reasoning with these...people.

This is exactly what I am talking about. Am I wrong? Do you want to discuss something? Or are you just going to sit there and dodge the topic like you always do?

1. Are you joking? Magicka NB has sustain, escape and mobility - the damage is lower than that of a Sorc, mainly because it's all about burst damage right now, but NB got the edge over Sorc on sustain, and if played smart, also escape.

2. By choosing no compromises/trade-offs in your build, you end up dieing, you won't be able to just pump everything into magicka and still compete with other class's stamina builds. It is true, that Sorc is getting more out of the removal of softcaps than other magicka builds, but that is a different matter entirely, as you don't fix it just adjusting the Sorc.
As you are pretty much paraphrasing the old "damage and defense in one"-argument here - look, that NB got regen along with the natural benefits of max stats just by increasing max stats and using siphoning strikes !

3. There is nothing to fix at the Sorc, that's your problem. If you fix the imbalanced game mechanics that are favouring Sorcs, Sorc won't be stronger than the other magicka based classes anymore (at least not noticeable, depends on the fixes who's on top ofc, and who can tell as of now).