How to balance Sorcs

jelliedsoup

Ezareth wrote: »

Itoq wrote: »

Hits? Yes. Regular? No.

I'll take your Crystal Fragments and raise you a Soul Harvest. This guy was insta-gibbing me and my group from stealth all night through my shields. Keep in mind this was *through* 32,000 Magicka Resist. I'm not here on the forums complaining about it though. NBs hit like trucks.

Just because people say sorcs are op doesnt mean theyre complaining on the forums about it.

Funny thing is i notice no difference between any class as an nb.

They will all kill me unless i have rally going. Sorcs are the only other class who go solo and we all know how op they are. Not complaining, just saying.

Kildayen

My Sorc has 40k magicka in PVP. My shields can be very tasty, but that does not mean I am indestructible. Believe me, I do my share of dying. I can get stunned, locked down, sniped, etc and it's all over. Sorcs are not OP. Some people know how to play them better than others. Some people know how to fight them better than others. Stop your complaining and learn how to play more effectively against them.

PS: I will be live streaming tonight for the WELCOME BACK WEEKEND event. I play only one character in this game and it is a Sorc. I play in a pretty high end PVP guild and tonight that is what I will be streaming. If you want to watch my Sorc live and die, join my live stream at 12 midnight EST www.twitch.tv/ThePhillyAntShow and make fun of how bad I suck

Stamden

Ezareth wrote: »

Itoq wrote: »

Hits? Yes. Regular? No.

I'll take your Crystal Fragments and raise you a Soul Harvest. This guy was insta-gibbing me and my group from stealth all night through my shields. Keep in mind this was *through* 32,000 Magicka Resist. I'm not here on the forums complaining about it though. NBs hit like trucks.

Your telling me your complaining because an ultimate did as much damage as your ranged, super-cheap instacast CC nuke?

Sorc mentality, ladies and gentlemen.

noobfury

Ran into one last night that was unstoppable .

He killed three of us with no problem and then was able to take on maybe 5 others after that by himself.

His defense was through the roof .

I play AVA everyday and he was the first like that I've seen that was able to solo several strong players.

I've always had problems with them but usually in a group they eventually die or bolt away.

This guy was amazing.

Rust_in_Peace

ToRelax wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

NBs are more overpowered than Sorc, thanks.

^This, and the main problem are infinite resources, you don't get "balance" without fixing that *** first, and I predict it will hit those builds the hardest wich you think are "OP" right now.

Sorcs have infinite mana.

See what I did there?

Rust_in_Peace

Neighbor wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Itoq wrote: »

Hits? Yes. Regular? No.

I'll take your Crystal Fragments and raise you a Soul Harvest. This guy was insta-gibbing me and my group from stealth all night through my shields. Keep in mind this was *through* 32,000 Magicka Resist. I'm not here on the forums complaining about it though. NBs hit like trucks.

Your telling me your complaining because an ultimate did as much damage as your ranged, super-cheap instacast CC nuke?

Sorc mentality, ladies and gentlemen.

Ezareth is the biggest cry baby you'll see on this forum. If he gets killed even once by a nightblade then the class is OP.

Learn to ignore him.

Stamden

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Itoq wrote: »

Hits? Yes. Regular? No.

I'll take your Crystal Fragments and raise you a Soul Harvest. This guy was insta-gibbing me and my group from stealth all night through my shields. Keep in mind this was *through* 32,000 Magicka Resist. I'm not here on the forums complaining about it though. NBs hit like trucks.

Your telling me your complaining because an ultimate did as much damage as your ranged, super-cheap instacast CC nuke?

Sorc mentality, ladies and gentlemen.

Ezareth is the biggest cry baby you'll see on this forum. If he gets killed even once by a nightblade then the class is OP.

Learn to ignore him.

It seems like there is like 3 or 4 Sorcs (including him) that roam around on these forums and whine. It's like their scared of what it would look like to actually play a balanced class.

SafiyerAmitora

Neighbor wrote: »

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Itoq wrote: »

Hits? Yes. Regular? No.

I'll take your Crystal Fragments and raise you a Soul Harvest. This guy was insta-gibbing me and my group from stealth all night through my shields. Keep in mind this was *through* 32,000 Magicka Resist. I'm not here on the forums complaining about it though. NBs hit like trucks.

Your telling me your complaining because an ultimate did as much damage as your ranged, super-cheap instacast CC nuke?

Sorc mentality, ladies and gentlemen.

Ezareth is the biggest cry baby you'll see on this forum. If he gets killed even once by a nightblade then the class is OP.

Learn to ignore him.

It seems like there is like 3 or 4 Sorcs (including him) that roam around on these forums and whine. It's like their scared of what it would look like to actually play a balanced class.

Don't forget there's a DK/NB watching the forums who's backing the Sorcs. Me.

Sorcs have just as many weaknesses as any other class. All the players complaining Sorcs are OP need to do is figure them out, and Sorcs won't be so "difficult" to fight.

rfennell_ESO

Can this just be posted instead of words from now on?

Stamden

rfennell_ESO

Neighbor wrote: »

Sorcerers are clearly the most dominate class in PvP. Wether you judge off playing the game, popular opinion, leaderboards, etc; their dominance is indisputable and this post is not here to debate about it. This post is in regards to reasonable way to tone down the class while keeping them viable.



Thoughts?

First one that comes to mind is that every claim you made (and then said was not debatable) happens to not be true at all.

Last I checked whenever someone proposes something and claims "the debate is already over", it's just a way to skirt debate and have their way.

Vis

noobfury wrote: »

Ran into one last night that was unstoppable .

He killed three of us with no problem and then was able to take on maybe 5 others after that by himself.

His defense was through the roof .

I play AVA everyday and he was the first like that I've seen that was able to solo several strong players.

I've always had problems with them but usually in a group they eventually die or bolt away.

This guy was amazing.

@noobfury Hope it was me. Lol

Stamden

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Sorcerers are clearly the most dominate class in PvP. Wether you judge off playing the game, popular opinion, leaderboards, etc; their dominance is indisputable and this post is not here to debate about it. This post is in regards to reasonable way to tone down the class while keeping them viable.



Thoughts?

First one that comes to mind is that every claim you made (and then said was not debatable) happens to not be true at all.

Last I checked whenever someone proposes something and claims "the debate is already over", it's just a way to skirt debate and have their way.

Cause you can't really debate it. I explained the reasoning in the main post. They don't really have any weakness. You can pump everything into magika and be powerful, tanky, and mobile. Is that really debatable?

ToRelax

Neighbor wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Sorcerers are clearly the most dominate class in PvP. Wether you judge off playing the game, popular opinion, leaderboards, etc; their dominance is indisputable and this post is not here to debate about it. This post is in regards to reasonable way to tone down the class while keeping them viable.



Thoughts?

First one that comes to mind is that every claim you made (and then said was not debatable) happens to not be true at all.

Last I checked whenever someone proposes something and claims "the debate is already over", it's just a way to skirt debate and have their way.

Cause you can't really debate it. I explained the reasoning in the main post. They don't really have any weakness. You can pump everything into magika and be powerful, tanky, and mobile. Is that really debatable?

Yes. If I "pump everything into magicka" I am powerful, squishy and mobile. Is that not obvious?

rfennell_ESO

Neighbor wrote: »

Cause you can't really debate it. I explained the reasoning in the main post. They don't really have any weakness. You can pump everything into magika and be powerful, tanky, and mobile. Is that really debatable?

Your reasoning was it's not debatable because you said so.

Last I checked this isn't 1.5 where everyone that was on the leaderboards were dks... but this time it's sorcs. Lol just because a sorc somehow made emperor a couple times isn't a sign of OP PLZ NERF.

Tankqull

Ezareth wrote: »

Itoq wrote: »

Hits? Yes. Regular? No.

I'll take your Crystal Fragments and raise you a Soul Harvest. This guy was insta-gibbing me and my group from stealth all night through my shields. Keep in mind this was *through* 32,000 Magicka Resist. I'm not here on the forums complaining about it though. NBs hit like trucks.

and i´ll raise with a wrecking blow

Erock25

Am I losing my mind or did I just read two posters calling out a Sorc for being a big whiner in a thread that is whining to nerf sorcs????? Is this real life?

Stamden

Erock25 wrote: »

Am I losing my mind or did I just read two posters calling out a Sorc for being a big whiner in a thread that is whining to nerf sorcs????? Is this real life?

Maybe a whiner isn't what you are, but I am not sure what the word is for someone who knows something is not balanced but says otherwise because they play it. A selfish person I suppose.

Xsorus

Neighbor wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Am I losing my mind or did I just read two posters calling out a Sorc for being a big whiner in a thread that is whining to nerf sorcs????? Is this real life?

Maybe a whiner isn't what you are, but I am not sure what the word is for someone who knows something is not balanced but says otherwise because they play it. A selfish person I suppose.

A bright wizard

rfennell_ESO

Neighbor wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Am I losing my mind or did I just read two posters calling out a Sorc for being a big whiner in a thread that is whining to nerf sorcs????? Is this real life?

Maybe a whiner isn't what you are, but I am not sure what the word is for someone who knows something is not balanced but says otherwise because they play it. A selfish person I suppose.

It's pretty OP versus people that don't dodge roll or block for sure.

But so is everything.

noobfury

Against sorc I feel like the guy that brought a knife to a gun fight.

This seems just so typical in every mmo I've played over the last few years.

What is with this dev fetish over op ranged magic users in every game ?


How about a more realistic picture. Rather than thinking in terms of class balancing think in terms of what each class has to offer during large scale scenarios or group pvp.

Groups of ranged magic users standing together and focusing their fire power pretty much sums it up .

There are a lot of variables in AVA that favor range when game mechanics are offense > defense .

Forestd16b14_ESO

Again take away shield stacking and sorc..... really any class or player wont be as op..... Won't object to some skill tweeking like that stupid streak but never a less get rid of shield stacking and watch how squishy alot of players not just sorc become.

I understand shields are as LA users love to say " there only def " but when they stack it to the point of taking 7 attacks from 7 diffrent players at once and able to insta stack again and dieing after 10 minutes of straight attacks it needs to be fixed.

jelliedsoup

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Again take away shield stacking and sorc..... really any class or player wont be as op..... Won't object to some skill tweeking like that stupid streak but never a less get rid of shield stacking and watch how squishy alot of players not just sorc become.

I understand shields are as LA users love to say " there only def " but when they stack it to the point of taking 7 attacks from 7 diffrent players at once and able to insta stack again and dieing after 10 minutes of straight attacks it needs to be fixed.

Yeah but how else would a sorc be able to tank though. Zos nerfed light armour so it wouldnt protect them for some reason. They would die without that if their dps was lower and they didbt have BoL


Give them a chance.

Morvul

Sorc damage is very high against players that do not defend themselves. But blocking, dodgerolling and Reflekt/absorb abilities pretty much nullify the damage potential of Crystalfragments and Overload, while purge nullifies the Curse... So against players using pretty much ANYTHING defensively at all - Sorc damage potential is not very impressive.
As for Sorcs and their shields: they allow to "tank" one good player or two mediocre players indefinetly when constantly re-applied. Shield-spamming can not "outheal" the damage of 3 players. All the while, a shield-spamming player/sorc can not use offensive abilities at the same time.
This is in contrast to block builds, who can survive the damage of even 3+ players for a good while, AND can use offensive abilities at the same time as their defensive one (block casting). To a lesser magnitude, this is also true for dodge-builds.

Sorcs ARE the best at running away (bolt escape), and charge abilities are only a counter when server-lag allows it. But that is an issue with lag, not game balance...

Laerwen

As a sorc I would actually love to see a ball of light and overload nerf. Theyre both pretty cheesy. This is not to say that other classes dont have just as much cheese. Shadow Cloak, Reflective Scales, perma dodge rollers, all could use a bit of adjustment.

Septimus_Magna

/

Morvul wrote: »

Sorc damage is very high against players that do not defend themselves. But blocking, dodgerolling and Reflekt/absorb abilities pretty much nullify the damage potential of Crystalfragments and Overload, while purge nullifies the Curse... So against players using pretty much ANYTHING defensively at all - Sorc damage potential is not very impressive.
As for Sorcs and their shields: they allow to "tank" one good player or two mediocre players indefinetly when constantly re-applied. Shield-spamming can not "outheal" the damage of 3 players. All the while, a shield-spamming player/sorc can not use offensive abilities at the same time.
This is in contrast to block builds, who can survive the damage of even 3+ players for a good while, AND can use offensive abilities at the same time as their defensive one (block casting). To a lesser magnitude, this is also true for dodge-builds.

Sorcs ARE the best at running away (bolt escape), and charge abilities are only a counter when server-lag allows it. But that is an issue with lag, not game balance...

This guys gets it, to do good damage with a sorc you need good timing to hit someone while he's not blocking/dodging/reflecting. This isnt as easy as you might think, good players dodge/reflect most cfrags/overload attacks. You can still hit them with curse/mages fury but its blockable and it cant be spammed so the dps against dodging/reflecting enemies tends to be low. BoL is good on paper but the projectile absorbing ball tends to be very unreliable, I still get hit by all kinds of spell when bolting away.

I see a lot of people who re-rolled a sorc to be OP in pvp but most of them melt like snow before the sun, only the higher ranked/more experienced sorcs are really strong imo.

Soulac

Ezareth wrote: »

Itoq wrote: »

Hits? Yes. Regular? No.

I'll take your Crystal Fragments and raise you a Soul Harvest. This guy was insta-gibbing me and my group from stealth all night through my shields. Keep in mind this was *through* 32,000 Magicka Resist. I'm not here on the forums complaining about it though. NBs hit like trucks.

Stamina NB, the ultimate doesn't care about your spell resistance.
You got like 8k armor (?) what did you expect?
Since it deals >14k dmg it's probably buffed with Ambush and cloak (as Khajiit or Bosmer for 10% dmg boost)
Also if canceled with bash it's added together in your recap (I think :P)

Now show us your spammable range ultimate which deals the same amount of dmg.
It's reflectable but just use it out of stealth like NBs need to do?


I really hate this kind of threads.. Mimimimimi everywhere.

Lava_Croft

When Sorcerers start comparing Soul Harvest to Crystal Fragments, you know they are nearing bottom of the well of valid points to make.

Let's just hope the Sorcerer situation will not take ZOS a year to fix like they did with the Dragon Knight situation.

Forestd16b14_ESO

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Again take away shield stacking and sorc..... really any class or player wont be as op..... Won't object to some skill tweeking like that stupid streak but never a less get rid of shield stacking and watch how squishy alot of players not just sorc become.

I understand shields are as LA users love to say " there only def " but when they stack it to the point of taking 7 attacks from 7 diffrent players at once and able to insta stack again and dieing after 10 minutes of straight attacks it needs to be fixed.

Yeah but how else would a sorc be able to tank though. Zos nerfed light armour so it wouldnt protect them for some reason. They would die without that if their dps was lower and they didbt have BoL


Give them a chance.

Then use a shield or heavy armor. Look i'm not saying make damage shield useless but what they are right now there beyond tanking there at never able to die levels. They need to be useable and useful with out being broken. Maybe give them a boost in how much damage the take like say from taking 3000 damage to 6000 but they be like the major and minor stuff where the stronger one replaces the minor one. Like every skill uses that system now why not damage shields why do they get stacked to take 30,000 damage.

Not saying make them useless just don't make it were a player stacks 30k shields.

ToRelax

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Again take away shield stacking and sorc..... really any class or player wont be as op..... Won't object to some skill tweeking like that stupid streak but never a less get rid of shield stacking and watch how squishy alot of players not just sorc become.

I understand shields are as LA users love to say " there only def " but when they stack it to the point of taking 7 attacks from 7 diffrent players at once and able to insta stack again and dieing after 10 minutes of straight attacks it needs to be fixed.

Yeah but how else would a sorc be able to tank though. Zos nerfed light armour so it wouldnt protect them for some reason. They would die without that if their dps was lower and they didbt have BoL


Give them a chance.

Then use a shield or heavy armor. Look i'm not saying make damage shield useless but what they are right now there beyond tanking there at never able to die levels. They need to be useable and useful with out being broken. Maybe give them a boost in how much damage the take like say from taking 3000 damage to 6000 but they be like the major and minor stuff where the stronger one replaces the minor one. Like every skill uses that system now why not damage shields why do they get stacked to take 30,000 damage.

Not saying make them useless just don't make it were a player stacks 30k shields.

The only thing that would change for me is that I can't stack my heal with my shield, wich wouldn't make much sense.
I am certainly not an easy Sorc to kill but I am certainly not "never able to die" either.
Most Sorcs, except a very few who indeed are indeed "tanking", with heavy armor and shield (and I am speaking of a minority of the heavy armor Sorcs here) are very squishy if there are just 2 enemies beating on them.
Obviously a good Sorc will try to not let them hit him to often in the first place, wich hasn't changed since launch.