STRONGEST CLASS IN PVP? (POLL)

Stamden

SORCERER

Sorcs have way too much mobility with bolt escape, defensive ability with shield spam. and offensive ability with frags proc during that.

AhPook_Is_Here

DRAGONKNIGHT

It is clear by this poll that the dragon-knight still needs to be toned down some to come in line with player expectations.

Leeric

DRAGONKNIGHT

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

It is clear by this poll that the dragon-knight still needs to be toned down some to come in line with player expectations.

I think most people in the game just need time to adjust to the new mechanics. I think DKs are stonger, but I dont think they are OP.
People are still stuck in their builds from before the changes(at least it seems that way), itll change.

SafiyerAmitora

DRAGONKNIGHT

Spangla wrote: »

SafiyerAmitora wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Sorc is clearly the most powerful class.

It is so obvious.

Uhh...

No. Just no.

^^^
lol

Ostrich

Ahem. Absolutely not. I've played dk. I've focused my build around soaking up insane amounts of dmg, I've heard of dk DoT dps builds that wreck, and there are more and more, at least okay, healer builds for DKs. How does this tie in with Sorcs? Sorcs excel at dps (mostly burst). Even if they focus heavily into a tanking or healing spec, theirs won't compare quite as well to a dk's tanking and healing builds because their class heals are quite pathetic. Yes, they could carry a resto, but so could a dk, or any other class. They may have BE and a really strong ward, but just because they can run away doesn't make them op, and their ward sorta makes up for their lack of good class heals. Take either of them or both away and most Sorcs will just become free ap.

indigoblades wrote: »

SafiyerAmitora wrote: »

Maybe in 1.5. Sorcerer these days aren't running away from you. They're kiting you away from the group. Using blink of course, but it's also mandatory to bunny-jump, because that will infuriate a bloodthirsty DK with tunnel vision. Eventually you'll find your self all alone in the wilderness, miles from the nearest keep, that's when the sorcerer suddenly turns around and *** all over you /pushups

Rule #1: Never chase the bolting Sorc.

Sorc Rule #1
Never attack a reflecting DK or any DK 1v1 unless u are spec'd to beat him.

For Me unless the DK is really new to Pvp (bad) its not worth attacking. I'd need to specialize my build too much towards attacking DK to make it useful overall for me in pvp. (for me Mages fury, Mage's light, lightning staff, vel curse and a different ultimate would only be useful for killing DK's. These days i only run a 2H/bow stam sorc so if i see a DK half health ill crit rush and see if i can do some physical damage. If i did alot of 1v1 it might be different but usually i pass or exit most DK fights when i am alone. I do have pretty good sustain so i have plenty of time to escape.

You do realize you quoted me on something someone else said, not me, right? The only thing out of all that that I wrote was that rule.

Leeric

DRAGONKNIGHT

Vahrokh wrote: »

Leeric wrote: »

SafiyerAmitora wrote: »

Leeric wrote: »

must be all the DK players boohoos again.

My mains are dk and nb, but I still defend sorcs, thx.

lol it was just a joke homie.

I just think it is funny that because NBs and DKs can't one or two shot sorcerers, that they think they are op.
Its not that the class can't be killed, they are complaining because the class can run away, not that they are dieing all the time, but because they can't catch them lol.

That is most hilarious reason to ask for a nerf in PVP. "NO THEY CAN RUN FROM ME PLZ NERF" That is awesome....

Actually this kind of PvP outcry has been rampant in WoW (warriors vs mages) and other MMOs. Every time there's a glass cannon class that can teleport away - basically every MMO with mages - meleers demand to kill their ability both to cannon glass and to teleport away. Surprising, eh?

Very much true, people don't like it when others can run away lol

Erock25

DRAGONKNIGHT

So funny reading all these DK mains coming here to whine about Sorcs. 'How can it be DK still? Me use same build as 1.5 and I no good no more.'

AhPook_Is_Here

DRAGONKNIGHT

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

SafiyerAmitora wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

SafiyerAmitora wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

I don't know where you've been in 1.5, but a proper LA dk tank could keep up all his ressources (even health) and tank everything that a small group would throw at him, while still maintaining pressure on them and eventually killing them. With proper positionning, practice, and usage of your surroundings you could take on a group of 10 people.
With the removal of cinder storm's miss chance, the augmented stamina costs for blocking, dodge roll, cc break it's not possible anymore. You just said yourself, you have magicka problems, how are you supposed to maintain pressure if you run out of magicka?

Before 1.6 i would run into a zerg without fear, now i'm happy if i can take on 3 persons at once. And of course i've adapted my build and taken up some pieces of heavy armor, i haven't blindly stuck with my old build expecting it to work the same.

I fail to see the point of pure "tanking" in PvP anyways if you're not going to kill anything. Also caltrops and healing ward? really?

I had a hard time killing most people, even in 1.5, because I wasn't spec'd to do dmg. Not a whole lot, anyway. My spell and weap dmg were at their base, and I had nothing into crit. I seriously hit like a pillow, and I couldn't take down enemies while trying to survive all of them because of that. I ran out of magicka quickly back then even in light armor because I 1.) Used 5pc Hist/4pc Seducer with random purple jewelry, and 2.) most of the abilities I had cost a quite a bit of magicka (Gdb, talons, harness magicka, cinder storm, and igneous shield (I stopped using wings months before 1.6 launched, so that helped a bunch)). Using each of those in turn and keeping them up drained me of magicka.

It is still possible; I've done it before in 1.6. I just have to keep gdb and hardened armor up to do it.

"Pure tanking" in PvP isn't completely useless. Because I can tank so much dmg, and I have at least a couple attacks, I can reach the enemy's backlines and start messing with their healers and ranged dps (and since light armor had been nerfed, this is much more effective than it was pre-1.6), which forces them to focus on me, both wasting their resources and sometimes ults, so that members of my group can sweep in while they're distracted. My build is designed to be grouped with others to take out the enemy. I sure can't solo them; that's neither my intent or what my dk is built for.

Caltrops are extremely useful. If the enemy gets caught in them, they take dmg, and if they block during this, it drains their stam. I tell you, the stam drain is real. And healing ward? Why not? If it helps either me or someone in the group, all the better.

LOL a dk with a seducer build... for tanking...

Sorry dude but you where killing your enemies by boredom?

I belive that this thread is referred to a 1v1, 1vX situation wich you fail to fit into.
You are playng a Pure support build for zergs and big encounters where the tank charge and the backup kill most of the enemies <<<<THIS is not be stong in this game imho; i've tried to do a tanky build in 1.5 and you know what? the almighty rule that evryone that is not a DK has: "when he finish the stamina he is death", was apply even if i was in tanky mode, and not into a 1vX but in a 1v1.

Now i know that the seducer + warlock + torugh Build was the most OP build EVER for a DK in 1.5 and before (full light btw) but now is just good, and DK fail (MAGIKA) in evry encounter even tanks (if not supported by a templar heal and a good dps).

You know the FIRST pvp rule is to take down the healer (the tank is the last one in the list since is the less dangerous) all the people who focus on you are just bad players imho.

1 good nightblade with the fear equipped can take you down in 2 minutes or less

Okay then. Tell me, how is a tank using seducer wrong? Because last I knew, it wasn't.

"Fail to fit into"? I've dueled 1v1 with guildies in Legend with this build and I've ended up in some duels where it ends in a stalemate after some 8+ minutes later. It's not what I'm built for or what I intended the build for, but I can still sort of make it work.

My stam is fine, thanks. After a duel, several times I've been told that it seemed that I never ran out of stam. In fact, in some points of the duel, I'd be completely out of stam, yet still be able to competently fight. Tbh, I'm not all that great at bluffing when my stam is low, but there are a some skilled people who I know that can. Though "A PvPer without stam is a dead PvPer" can be true for ANY class. It just doesn't apply all the time.

I tried Warlock/Seducer in 1.5 and really didn't like it, and switched back to my old setup. Magicka dk's do not fail every encounter. It depends on their build and the player's skill.

Exactly. Why do you think I go to their backlines in the first place? And it's because of the supposed threat they think I must be that they turn to try and kill me.

How would you know if that were true if you've never even seen me fight? All you know about my build is what I've told you about it. Hearing parts here and there of a build doesn't show the whole thing of how it'll work in action. Even if I told the entire setup, if someone tried using the exact same setup, they might play it a different way than I do. It's not just the build, it's the player. One good nb I may go against could stalemate with me, another good one might wreck me, or I may miraculously defeat some other good nb. It depends on builds and skill.

You know i got your point but a dog who barks usually dont bites.

Just to finish this i'm not against your build or against pvp tanking, you can do what you want but dont push the statement that dk are the most strong class in pvp when they are not. Ok you can take damage but you cannot kill enemies ( tanks exist for evry class) and you can be useful with a group and do a good group play.
Imho i dont belive that dk are anymore the srtrongest class and i was tryng to make a point for you .

Seducer dont fit in a tank build only because you miss something, try to do a hibrid tanking-stamina-magika-damage build is just agaist you (tbh while tanking i use a hist-footman-malubeth or skoria build and only with the skoria meteor and the dots i can do a lot more damage than you) and you can do more, better and easier without focusing in magika and without loosing anything.

I'm tryng to tell you that you can do better with your dk, i dont use the skoria anymose only because i hate the fotm and i belive that the skoria meteors are making the servers lag more than usual.

If you want a tanky magic regen set might try shallidor's curse, think that is the one, not as good as whitestrake on the 5p but you will get the mana regen in the lower set bonuses.

Sacadon

STRONGEST CLASS IN PVP? (PTROLL)

^^ fixed it for you.

AhPook_Is_Here

DRAGONKNIGHT

Erock25 wrote: »

So funny reading all these DK mains coming here to whine about Sorcs. 'How can it be DK still? Me use same build as 1.5 and I no good no more.'

Actually i think it is mostly NBs complaining. They have the hardest time with sorcs. DKs can manage sorcs pretty well, but a DK has no chance against a good NB with a drain tank build. Templars are kind of like mushrooms in the rock paper scissors thing and even though the are one of the strongest classes in the game you can run from them and they can't run from you so NBs don't have to cry about them.

Stamden

SORCERER

NB here, and I don't really understand all the hate around DKs. Yeah, usually they can GDB a few times so they take longer to kill, but atleast they still go down and they have no escape. Atleast you can kill them, Sorcs on the other hand..

Ezareth

DRAGONKNIGHT

LOL Nerf Banner! (Had to do that in memory of Murder Thumbs)

Dudis

SORCERER

It depends so much on your build (and obviously your opponents too).

I'm a NB-mage myself and i find other NBs and Templars of any spec really to be rather easy to kill.

DKs can be tough, especially the tanky ones, but i rarely die to them myself. Problem i think is that almost ALL of them are rather tough since it's a relatively easy class to play well.

I voted sorcerer because a good one has the highest dmg in the game, the best mobility and is damn near unkillable unless they really screw up somehow.


Edit: This is from an open field 1v1 or 1vX perspective btw.

xaraan

This may sound crazy, but I think they are pretty balanced. Not perfectly mind you and still polishing needed on every class.

BUT, they all have things that make them powerful (or annoying) in certain playstyles/builds and all have weaknesses. I do think DKs and templars can be pretty tough in general as far taking a beating, but they aren't invulnerable and should be tougher than the two classes: NB and Sorc that can escape from fights more easily.

(I do however think stamina builds (of any class) are a smudge over magicka builds in balance, though not as much as some probably think.)

Joy_Division

SORCERER

To all the people who voted DK: Welcome back! I hope you are enjoying ESO from your hiatus and look forward to gaming with you again now that you are active again.

To the people who voted Templar: huh?

hamon

SORCERER

Joy_Division wrote: »

To all the people who voted DK: Welcome back! I hope you are enjoying ESO from your hiatus and look forward to gaming with you again now that you are active again.

To the people who voted Templar: huh?

well sorcs need to vote to deflect folk from the obvious.. most chose DK's cos traditionally they WERE the strongest. so best to keep folk believing that.

no idea who the hell would vote templar.. i just feel like i,m utterly gimped in 2.0 . full magika we dont have the dps.. stamina we dont do as well as DK or NB using stam. hybrid =waste of time for everyone.

Vahrokh

DRAGONKNIGHT

SafiyerAmitora wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

SafiyerAmitora wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Sorc is clearly the most powerful class.

It is so obvious.

Uhh...

No. Just no.

^^^
lol

Ostrich

Ahem. Absolutely not. I've played dk. I've focused my build around soaking up insane amounts of dmg, I've heard of dk DoT dps builds that wreck, and there are more and more, at least okay, healer builds for DKs. How does this tie in with Sorcs? Sorcs excel at dps (mostly burst). Even if they focus heavily into a tanking or healing spec, theirs won't compare quite as well to a dk's tanking and healing builds because their class heals are quite pathetic. Yes, they could carry a resto, but so could a dk, or any other class. They may have BE and a really strong ward, but just because they can run away doesn't make them op, and their ward sorta makes up for their lack of good class heals. Take either of them or both away and most Sorcs will just become free ap.

That's been the plan since the beginning! In MMOs there's usually a free AP class and of course low health and fragile sorcs come as a natural subject to be that!

Think about it: which class would a lion (DK) prefer to nerf: a cow or an agile gazelle?

Obscure

SORCERER

Sorcs have the greatest potential in PvP. Better engage/disengage than a Nightblade, excellent burst damage, excellent AoE capability, excellent resource sustainability, moderate to high sustained DPS, all amount to just a really high potential to rock out in PvP.

But that being said I'm assuming the player behind the class is highly skilled. An equally skilled Dragonknight or Templar has a high potential to really bring the pain, but I only vote Sorc because I find the skill ceiling, and skill floor, for that class is higher than it is for others, permitting a truly skilled player the ability to stand out among the scrubs. If not for the anti-naming policy of these forums I'd list off the names of a few sorcs I've had the privilege of getting totally outclassed by. No matter how good I can get with a Dragonknight, it'll never permit my skill level to be a determining factor against a skilled Sorc. Our class skill ceilings are just different.

Dragonknight can be easy, and there's a lot of variety in the class to make it easy, but Sorcerer as a class is simply unstoppable in the right hands. I don't claim to be the best there is, but those who I consider better than me are predominantly Sorc players. Frankly it comes down to the players, not the class. The worst Templar against the worst Sorc, I'd put my money on the Templar. But the best vs the best? I'm betting Sorc every time no matter what class it's up against.

Stamden

SORCERER

hamon wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

To all the people who voted DK: Welcome back! I hope you are enjoying ESO from your hiatus and look forward to gaming with you again now that you are active again.

To the people who voted Templar: huh?

well sorcs need to vote to deflect folk from the obvious.. most chose DK's cos traditionally they WERE the strongest. so best to keep folk believing that.

no idea who the hell would vote templar.. i just feel like i,m utterly gimped in 2.0 . full magika we dont have the dps.. stamina we dont do as well as DK or NB using stam. hybrid =waste of time for everyone.

Yeah I'm guessing it's the Sorc players voting for DKs. DKs were strong back when the game first came out. After countless nerfs and changes to how ultimate works, DKs are fine.

Kas

SORCERER

AltusVenifus wrote: »

LOL. I play a NB and 41% think DK as of my reading. Does nobody actually play pvp?

Sorc - miles and miles ahead then the rest are pretty close.

Indeed. if you look at most posts, you'll realized that 90% of the people posting here are those you see on the "getting farmed" side in those youtube'd 1v10's. But, let's face it, the actual majority of players is exactly like that. Most people in Cyrodiil have no idea how to play at all. I guess this vote would be much more shifted towards sorcs if only players of rank 30+ would be allowed to vote (or however you'd want to define passion for PvP, I cannot think of a good metric right now).

That being said, sorcs are actually only ahead at high levels of player skill and in few aspects of the whoel AvA thing. If I had to coach a totally new player (just quested to V14 and got equipt according to a guide) to get something done in PvP, I don't even think I'd recommend playing a sorc. Personally, I really think spells should be balanced for near perfect use and not for the masses. However, I accept that this is a matter of phlisophy.

Finally, I think I should mention that I think sorcs are only particularly good at picking their fights. If you'd have them fight 1v1 in a duel-like situation, I guess they're still strong but then I wouldn't go as far as saying they're miles ahead. Neither are they OP in your average bomb-blob trains. Hence, the sorc dominance many experience only concerns a certain playstyle. Just because it's the style that counts the most for many of us, we should keep in mind that many players look at AvA quite differntly. Especially your average epic-battles-immersion guy, probably cares about totally different things (and feels much more strongly about reflected projectiles and getting talon'd inside a banner, or that the biggest number in the death recap is radiant destruction -.-).

Zhoyzu

NIGHTBLADE

My vote still stands for night blades. as a NB you can pull the same sorcery they are to either win or gtfo, as a DK well.... you might be able to survive. and as a templar you can out heal their dmg.

as a sorc.... as im now learning... magicka NBs are the worst. omg they tickle you to death and annoy the living *** out of you til you fall over or manage to find some friends.

magicka night blades op, plz dont tickle/ annoy me to death.

iseko

DRAGONKNIGHT

I think this poll os quite hard to vote on. 1v1? 1v5(ish)? 1vX? AvA?

1v1 all classes have a good shot. Also depends on element of surprise. I would say in a fair duel a sorc has highest chance of winning. Very hard to burst through their shields +bolt. Templar is very good as well. So is NB. Dk... Depends who he is fighting.

1v5 ish. The sorc again. Dk as well for the tank that they are. Bet is one of them is bringing ranged attacks. They are sort of useless. Close range melee will hit a brick wall. The dk can take em down one by one. Templar also has a decent shot. Javelin + charge + sweep + radiant destruction. Will take down a glass cannon every time. Blazing shield up so his buddies hitting you help kill the cannon.

AvA? The DK hands down. Biggest tank. He will go down last. In AvA: dont go for the dk tank first. Take down the healers abd glass cannons first. But in AvA the point is quite mute. Tactics > builds. Tanks dps and healers need to work togheter. In AvA a close range tenplar will go down fast. Free ap. In AvA I think they are weakest.

Conclusion: in pretty much all situations the DK and sorc can succeed with one build.

Minnesinger

SORCERER

If one of the best dks in the game says he would like to ditch his dk in favour of a sorc...I vote Sorc. They are good with some weak points. Nevertheless, the potential is huge for a good sorc. Not even need the hax of B*****y.

Vis

DRAGONKNIGHT

DKs can still pull off the most "miracles." I rarely find myself asking, "How did that sorc do that?" It's usually DKs that I watch tank Xv1 and still dps is what blows me away. If there are more than 3, I almost always have to kite.

As for the strongest build I have seen so far, Kerviz (sorry if I mispelled it) can one shot me (3 shot, but in under 2 seconds) for over 20k. So hats off to the NB killers out there.

Lhorion

SORCERER

DKs are not weeak, but the strongest? That made me laughing.

The heavy armour DKs does no damage (expect against vamps, but then it is the vamp's weakness not the DK's strengh).
Stamina DKs can be strong, but that is not the DK beeing strong, it is the stamina build with a few useful class skills.
Caster DKs can be strong with shieldstacking and range burst. Reflect, Igneous weapons and Fossilize make them stronger. But sorcs can still do a similar build with better shields, better damage cause of no health needed and one of the best escape/mobility skills in the game that is the sorc's reflect, too.

olsborg

DRAGONKNIGHT

eliisra wrote: »

Leeric wrote: »

I just think it is funny that because NBs and DKs can't one or two shot sorcerers, that they think they are op.
Its not that the class can't be killed, they are complaining because the class can run away, not that they are dieing all the time, but because they can't catch them lol.

That is most hilarious reason to ask for a nerf in PVP. "NO THEY CAN RUN FROM ME PLZ NERF" That is awesome....

Maybe in 1.5. Sorcerer these days aren't running away from you. They're kiting you away from the group. Using blink of course, but it's also mandatory to bunny-jump, because that will infuriate a bloodthirsty DK with tunnel vision. Eventually you'll find your self all alone in the wilderness, miles from the nearest keep, that's when the sorcerer suddenly turns around and *** all over you /pushups

You describe my tactic pretty much 100% accurately. Thanks:)
-Jovre

Soulac

NIGHTBLADE

Nb is love. Nb is life.

cozmon3c_ESO

DRAGONKNIGHT

dks are still the strongest against sorc because they can reflect for days with no real way for the sorc to damage them in 1v1 situations, and still dish out the stam dps. and if you get them low after a minute of beating on them with abilies like curse and detonation they just gdb back to full or roll dodge rally. totally obnoxious fights.

Night blades i would say are pretty even with dk's as the kill me in 1 second flat from stealth, it may be a string of attacks but they all hit at the same time, their burst is off the wall insane. mainly because for some reason bow stealth attacks stun you with like no animation leaving you clicking your buttons wondering why nothing is f'ing responding. and then your dead because the arrow sound comes after you are already dead. i die the most to these snipe monkeys who think what they do is skills. the fact that i have to pop dectect pots like candy just to compete with these fools shows how powerful stealth has become in a game where the time to kill is so insanely high now.

Then comes templars, they are tough because they eat everything you throw at them and laugh in your face, but they atleast have a weakness unlike DK's, they cant reflect all you high damage back at you. pop overload and melt them when they are at half life. they have to take it unless they are dodge roll monkeys, which can live forever if they find something to los roll around.

Sorc comes in dead last for me, mainly because of Ball of Lightening. yes these balls are kinda unreliable but they work more then not. i just bolt once and hide behind the ball, absorb most of what sorcs cast at me and procede to own him because most sorcs dont know how to stand behind there balls and wonder why its not working right. chasing down a sorc as a sorc is almost as annoying as chasing roll dodging templars or roll dodging dk's because of bol (i think there needs to be a window for damage between balls imo). the only counter to these balls i found is heavey attack destro staff and curse. cant cast detonation because they are moving away from you and the cast time is to long. there is no real hard counter to bol as a magicka user except using a bow or melee charge aka stamina. i kill most sorcs pretty easily, they cannot dissapear and i have as much mobility as they do.

ixie

SORCERER

Overload

Leeric

DRAGONKNIGHT

Minnesinger wrote: »

If one of the best dks in the game says he would like to ditch his dk in favour of a sorc...I vote Sorc. They are good with some weak points. Nevertheless, the potential is huge for a good sorc. Not even need the hax of B*****y.

Yah he says that because hes not OP anymore, that what this whole thread is about. DKs and Nightblades are mad they cant 1 or 2 shot sorcs. Sorry its not easy AP anymore. But thats how it is.

Ezareth

DRAGONKNIGHT

tribbsb16_ESO wrote: »

Overload

Dodge Roll.