Bolt Escape

Xsorus

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

The only argument people have for BE retaining its increased magicka cost is that a sorc can BE away. Sure sorcs can kite/run away very well, but most players also seem to look past the fact that any build that uses a charge can stick with them the entire time.

You're talking about whether or not there should be a mechanic that restricts consecutive bolt escapes.
I'm talking about the fact that restricting bolt escapes is intended by ZOS and that there are better ways to do it, (namely ones that wouldn't so harshly impact stamina builds).

The restriction on BE came during a time when the entire community was crying about sorcs being able to run away from fights and no one figured out that a charge could follow a bolt escaping sorc.

You're right in that other mechanics would be irrelevant if they just gave up whole restriction concept. But they haven't. It has only gotten more restrictive over time because the method they are using is not a great way to do it.

Only one skill in the whole game has a restrictive mechanic. Can you guess which one it is?

Wait, you think people didn't know you could charge a sorc back then? That's why no one was doing it?


Charging a Sorc going in a straight line is all fun and dandy....But the second they broke LOS by Teleporting behind say a Tree or a Rock and you couldn't Charge them because your ability actually required LOS they'd be gone...and there is nothing you could do to stop them..They can do the same thing right now...only they can't come back 2 seconds later and open on ya again because Mana like before..That is really the only difference.

Everyone seems to have a story about the sorc that got away. You know, because escaping a fight is OP.

No one ever recalls how they "locked that noob streaking sorc" down with shield charges/talons/stampede/fear until the sorc was out of stamina and then that sorc turns into a punching bag.

Talons doesn't stop Bolt Escape..neither does Stampede... Shield Charge will for 1 time.. At least till they make it behind a tree

Talons forces a sorc to dodge roll, or only have one direction of bolt escape, which is the direction that the sorc is facing (it doesn't follow where the cursor is facing)

Stampede is just an example of a gap closer, I used stampede as the example because it also applies a snare which will definitely help in locking that sorc down.

Shield charge, another gap closer but this one comes with a stun. Once you are in range to shield charge once, you will be able to continuously shield charge that sorc unless they get line of sight from you. Also keep in mind, CC immunity only lasts 4 seconds, so in 8 seconds you can completely deplete a sorcs stamina (from 2 break frees, assuming the sorc is using tri-stat food and no other stamina contributions).

With the current restriction on BE, stamina based builds with their gap closers will out-pace a sorcs ability to BE away and have plenty of stamina left to be offensive. What is surprising to me, is that something so simple is eluding you...Your ability to use a skill with a charge counters my ability to bolt escape away once you are in range. The very fact that there is more than one way to counter a skill should lead one to believe that it is balanced.

I've never seen a Sorc bother to Dodge roll a Talons....You're out of your damn mind if you think that's going to happen when they can just Bolt escape...Stampede again..Is a snare...is going to do nothing to stop a Bolt Escaping Sorc...Not in the history of the entire game has that Snare ever did anything to stop a sorc from escaping. And charging a Sorc over and over again isn't going to work either..Do you know why? Because your Stampede and Shield Charge is never going to do enough damage to get through their shields...If you actually do manage to charge him over and over again without him breaking LOS, or BE stunning you thus forcing ya to break free and thus letting the Sorc escape... One thing is going to happen..You're going to finally get him to stop..Because he's going to stop to kill you now because you're out of Stamina from wasting it charging him over and over again.

Erock25

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

The only argument people have for BE retaining its increased magicka cost is that a sorc can BE away. Sure sorcs can kite/run away very well, but most players also seem to look past the fact that any build that uses a charge can stick with them the entire time.

You're talking about whether or not there should be a mechanic that restricts consecutive bolt escapes.
I'm talking about the fact that restricting bolt escapes is intended by ZOS and that there are better ways to do it, (namely ones that wouldn't so harshly impact stamina builds).

The restriction on BE came during a time when the entire community was crying about sorcs being able to run away from fights and no one figured out that a charge could follow a bolt escaping sorc.

You're right in that other mechanics would be irrelevant if they just gave up whole restriction concept. But they haven't. It has only gotten more restrictive over time because the method they are using is not a great way to do it.

Only one skill in the whole game has a restrictive mechanic. Can you guess which one it is?

Wait, you think people didn't know you could charge a sorc back then? That's why no one was doing it?


Charging a Sorc going in a straight line is all fun and dandy....But the second they broke LOS by Teleporting behind say a Tree or a Rock and you couldn't Charge them because your ability actually required LOS they'd be gone...and there is nothing you could do to stop them..They can do the same thing right now...only they can't come back 2 seconds later and open on ya again because Mana like before..That is really the only difference.

Everyone seems to have a story about the sorc that got away. You know, because escaping a fight is OP.

No one ever recalls how they "locked that noob streaking sorc" down with shield charges/talons/stampede/fear until the sorc was out of stamina and then that sorc turns into a punching bag.

Talons doesn't stop Bolt Escape..neither does Stampede... Shield Charge will for 1 time.. At least till they make it behind a tree

Talons forces a sorc to dodge roll, or only have one direction of bolt escape, which is the direction that the sorc is facing (it doesn't follow where the cursor is facing)

Stampede is just an example of a gap closer, I used stampede as the example because it also applies a snare which will definitely help in locking that sorc down.

Shield charge, another gap closer but this one comes with a stun. Once you are in range to shield charge once, you will be able to continuously shield charge that sorc unless they get line of sight from you. Also keep in mind, CC immunity only lasts 4 seconds, so in 8 seconds you can completely deplete a sorcs stamina (from 2 break frees, assuming the sorc is using tri-stat food and no other stamina contributions).

With the current restriction on BE, stamina based builds with their gap closers will out-pace a sorcs ability to BE away and have plenty of stamina left to be offensive. What is surprising to me, is that something so simple is eluding you...Your ability to use a skill with a charge counters my ability to bolt escape away once you are in range. The very fact that there is more than one way to counter a skill should lead one to believe that it is balanced.

I've never seen a Sorc bother to Dodge roll a Talons....You're out of your damn mind if you think that's going to happen when they can just Bolt escape...Stampede again..Is a snare...is going to do nothing to stop a Bolt Escaping Sorc...Not in the history of the entire game has that Snare ever did anything to stop a sorc from escaping. And charging a Sorc over and over again isn't going to work either..Do you know why? Because your Stampede and Shield Charge is never going to do enough damage to get through their shields...If you actually do manage to charge him over and over again without him breaking LOS, or BE stunning you thus forcing ya to break free and thus letting the Sorc escape... One thing is going to happen..You're going to finally get him to stop..Because he's going to stop to kill you now because you're out of Stamina from wasting it charging him over and over again.

But he will be out of magicka. You are probably the loudest pro-nerf Sorc in PVP player on the forums now which is odd considering you seem to do really well in your PVP videos. I suggest you roll a Sorc so you can see the situation from the other side. My DK is almost there and I look forward to it.

Ezareth

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

The only argument people have for BE retaining its increased magicka cost is that a sorc can BE away. Sure sorcs can kite/run away very well, but most players also seem to look past the fact that any build that uses a charge can stick with them the entire time.

You're talking about whether or not there should be a mechanic that restricts consecutive bolt escapes.
I'm talking about the fact that restricting bolt escapes is intended by ZOS and that there are better ways to do it, (namely ones that wouldn't so harshly impact stamina builds).

The restriction on BE came during a time when the entire community was crying about sorcs being able to run away from fights and no one figured out that a charge could follow a bolt escaping sorc.

You're right in that other mechanics would be irrelevant if they just gave up whole restriction concept. But they haven't. It has only gotten more restrictive over time because the method they are using is not a great way to do it.

Only one skill in the whole game has a restrictive mechanic. Can you guess which one it is?

Wait, you think people didn't know you could charge a sorc back then? That's why no one was doing it?


Charging a Sorc going in a straight line is all fun and dandy....But the second they broke LOS by Teleporting behind say a Tree or a Rock and you couldn't Charge them because your ability actually required LOS they'd be gone...and there is nothing you could do to stop them..They can do the same thing right now...only they can't come back 2 seconds later and open on ya again because Mana like before..That is really the only difference.

Everyone seems to have a story about the sorc that got away. You know, because escaping a fight is OP.

No one ever recalls how they "locked that noob streaking sorc" down with shield charges/talons/stampede/fear until the sorc was out of stamina and then that sorc turns into a punching bag.

Talons doesn't stop Bolt Escape..neither does Stampede... Shield Charge will for 1 time.. At least till they make it behind a tree

Talons forces a sorc to dodge roll, or only have one direction of bolt escape, which is the direction that the sorc is facing (it doesn't follow where the cursor is facing)

Stampede is just an example of a gap closer, I used stampede as the example because it also applies a snare which will definitely help in locking that sorc down.

Shield charge, another gap closer but this one comes with a stun. Once you are in range to shield charge once, you will be able to continuously shield charge that sorc unless they get line of sight from you. Also keep in mind, CC immunity only lasts 4 seconds, so in 8 seconds you can completely deplete a sorcs stamina (from 2 break frees, assuming the sorc is using tri-stat food and no other stamina contributions).

With the current restriction on BE, stamina based builds with their gap closers will out-pace a sorcs ability to BE away and have plenty of stamina left to be offensive. What is surprising to me, is that something so simple is eluding you...Your ability to use a skill with a charge counters my ability to bolt escape away once you are in range. The very fact that there is more than one way to counter a skill should lead one to believe that it is balanced.

I've never seen a Sorc bother to Dodge roll a Talons....You're out of your damn mind if you think that's going to happen when they can just Bolt escape...Stampede again..Is a snare...is going to do nothing to stop a Bolt Escaping Sorc...Not in the history of the entire game has that Snare ever did anything to stop a sorc from escaping. And charging a Sorc over and over again isn't going to work either..Do you know why? Because your Stampede and Shield Charge is never going to do enough damage to get through their shields...If you actually do manage to charge him over and over again without him breaking LOS, or BE stunning you thus forcing ya to break free and thus letting the Sorc escape... One thing is going to happen..You're going to finally get him to stop..Because he's going to stop to kill you now because you're out of Stamina from wasting it charging him over and over again.

Pre 1.6 I dodge rolled talons all the time so I could actually face my attacker to attack him. Now I don't have that option as I can only dodge roll twice before I'm out of stamina and I need to save that for Break free.

I get stopped and die to snares all the time. Just last night I died because I was snared facing a tree, didn't have the Stamina to dodge roll and couldn't do anything but stare at the tree as my assailants crit charge/wrecking blow finished me.

Sorcs die extremely easily now. Hardened Ward even with 35 champion points put into boosting it is still only a 10 K shield with no armor. Take that down and we're 1-shotted by snipe.

eventide03b14a_ESO

People are absolutely terrified by the prospect of the BE nerf being undone. I find it extremely hilarious.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Ezareth wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

The only argument people have for BE retaining its increased magicka cost is that a sorc can BE away. Sure sorcs can kite/run away very well, but most players also seem to look past the fact that any build that uses a charge can stick with them the entire time.

You're talking about whether or not there should be a mechanic that restricts consecutive bolt escapes.
I'm talking about the fact that restricting bolt escapes is intended by ZOS and that there are better ways to do it, (namely ones that wouldn't so harshly impact stamina builds).

The restriction on BE came during a time when the entire community was crying about sorcs being able to run away from fights and no one figured out that a charge could follow a bolt escaping sorc.

You're right in that other mechanics would be irrelevant if they just gave up whole restriction concept. But they haven't. It has only gotten more restrictive over time because the method they are using is not a great way to do it.

Only one skill in the whole game has a restrictive mechanic. Can you guess which one it is?

Wait, you think people didn't know you could charge a sorc back then? That's why no one was doing it?


Charging a Sorc going in a straight line is all fun and dandy....But the second they broke LOS by Teleporting behind say a Tree or a Rock and you couldn't Charge them because your ability actually required LOS they'd be gone...and there is nothing you could do to stop them..They can do the same thing right now...only they can't come back 2 seconds later and open on ya again because Mana like before..That is really the only difference.

Everyone seems to have a story about the sorc that got away. You know, because escaping a fight is OP.

No one ever recalls how they "locked that noob streaking sorc" down with shield charges/talons/stampede/fear until the sorc was out of stamina and then that sorc turns into a punching bag.

Talons doesn't stop Bolt Escape..neither does Stampede... Shield Charge will for 1 time.. At least till they make it behind a tree

Talons forces a sorc to dodge roll, or only have one direction of bolt escape, which is the direction that the sorc is facing (it doesn't follow where the cursor is facing)

Stampede is just an example of a gap closer, I used stampede as the example because it also applies a snare which will definitely help in locking that sorc down.

Shield charge, another gap closer but this one comes with a stun. Once you are in range to shield charge once, you will be able to continuously shield charge that sorc unless they get line of sight from you. Also keep in mind, CC immunity only lasts 4 seconds, so in 8 seconds you can completely deplete a sorcs stamina (from 2 break frees, assuming the sorc is using tri-stat food and no other stamina contributions).

With the current restriction on BE, stamina based builds with their gap closers will out-pace a sorcs ability to BE away and have plenty of stamina left to be offensive. What is surprising to me, is that something so simple is eluding you...Your ability to use a skill with a charge counters my ability to bolt escape away once you are in range. The very fact that there is more than one way to counter a skill should lead one to believe that it is balanced.

I've never seen a Sorc bother to Dodge roll a Talons....You're out of your damn mind if you think that's going to happen when they can just Bolt escape...Stampede again..Is a snare...is going to do nothing to stop a Bolt Escaping Sorc...Not in the history of the entire game has that Snare ever did anything to stop a sorc from escaping. And charging a Sorc over and over again isn't going to work either..Do you know why? Because your Stampede and Shield Charge is never going to do enough damage to get through their shields...If you actually do manage to charge him over and over again without him breaking LOS, or BE stunning you thus forcing ya to break free and thus letting the Sorc escape... One thing is going to happen..You're going to finally get him to stop..Because he's going to stop to kill you now because you're out of Stamina from wasting it charging him over and over again.

Pre 1.6 I dodge rolled talons all the time so I could actually face my attacker to attack him. Now I don't have that option as I can only dodge roll twice before I'm out of stamina and I need to save that for Break free.

I get stopped and die to snares all the time. Just last night I died because I was snared facing a tree, didn't have the Stamina to dodge roll and couldn't do anything but stare at the tree as my assailants crit charge/wrecking blow finished me.

Sorcs die extremely easily now. Hardened Ward even with 35 champion points put into boosting it is still only a 10 K shield with no armor. Take that down and we're 1-shotted by snipe.

This is so true. My stamina is so pitiful I have to save it for break free because I can really only get one dodge roll off. We need our shields because blocking also incredibly expensive. People are complaining about magicka sorcerers when the fact is we are not stronger than stamina classes we just use our magicka pool to compensate for a lack of stamina defense.

Snit

Xorus, if you're really finding sorcs impossible to kill with your DK, you should take lessons from a little over half the DK's in Cyrodiil on a given day. Many of them manage it on a regular basis.

I suspect you do better than you're describing here.

Pancake-Tragedy

Snit wrote: »

Xorus, if you're really finding sorcs impossible to kill with your DK, you should take lessons from a little over half the DK's in Cyrodiil on a given day. Many of them manage it on a regular basis.

I suspect you do better than you're describing here.

Yep, I used to view Xsorus as a player that was open to balanced PvP through skilled game play and using whatever counters that are available to the player.

Now, he just seems like a salty DK that lost his OPness.

Erock25

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Xorus, if you're really finding sorcs impossible to kill with your DK, you should take lessons from a little over half the DK's in Cyrodiil on a given day. Many of them manage it on a regular basis.

I suspect you do better than you're describing here.

Yep, I used to view Xsorus as a player that was open to balanced PvP through skilled game play and using whatever counters that are available to the player.

Now, he just seems like a salty DK that lost his OPness.

Yeah I was very impressed with his outside the box stamina DK videos. He made it look very powerful. Since 1.6 dropped I have encountered quite a few 2h/bow stamina DKs that were absolute monsters and I assumed he would be one of them.

Xsorus

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

The only argument people have for BE retaining its increased magicka cost is that a sorc can BE away. Sure sorcs can kite/run away very well, but most players also seem to look past the fact that any build that uses a charge can stick with them the entire time.

You're talking about whether or not there should be a mechanic that restricts consecutive bolt escapes.
I'm talking about the fact that restricting bolt escapes is intended by ZOS and that there are better ways to do it, (namely ones that wouldn't so harshly impact stamina builds).

The restriction on BE came during a time when the entire community was crying about sorcs being able to run away from fights and no one figured out that a charge could follow a bolt escaping sorc.

You're right in that other mechanics would be irrelevant if they just gave up whole restriction concept. But they haven't. It has only gotten more restrictive over time because the method they are using is not a great way to do it.

Only one skill in the whole game has a restrictive mechanic. Can you guess which one it is?

Wait, you think people didn't know you could charge a sorc back then? That's why no one was doing it?


Charging a Sorc going in a straight line is all fun and dandy....But the second they broke LOS by Teleporting behind say a Tree or a Rock and you couldn't Charge them because your ability actually required LOS they'd be gone...and there is nothing you could do to stop them..They can do the same thing right now...only they can't come back 2 seconds later and open on ya again because Mana like before..That is really the only difference.

Everyone seems to have a story about the sorc that got away. You know, because escaping a fight is OP.

No one ever recalls how they "locked that noob streaking sorc" down with shield charges/talons/stampede/fear until the sorc was out of stamina and then that sorc turns into a punching bag.

Talons doesn't stop Bolt Escape..neither does Stampede... Shield Charge will for 1 time.. At least till they make it behind a tree

Talons forces a sorc to dodge roll, or only have one direction of bolt escape, which is the direction that the sorc is facing (it doesn't follow where the cursor is facing)

Stampede is just an example of a gap closer, I used stampede as the example because it also applies a snare which will definitely help in locking that sorc down.

Shield charge, another gap closer but this one comes with a stun. Once you are in range to shield charge once, you will be able to continuously shield charge that sorc unless they get line of sight from you. Also keep in mind, CC immunity only lasts 4 seconds, so in 8 seconds you can completely deplete a sorcs stamina (from 2 break frees, assuming the sorc is using tri-stat food and no other stamina contributions).

With the current restriction on BE, stamina based builds with their gap closers will out-pace a sorcs ability to BE away and have plenty of stamina left to be offensive. What is surprising to me, is that something so simple is eluding you...Your ability to use a skill with a charge counters my ability to bolt escape away once you are in range. The very fact that there is more than one way to counter a skill should lead one to believe that it is balanced.

I've never seen a Sorc bother to Dodge roll a Talons....You're out of your damn mind if you think that's going to happen when they can just Bolt escape...Stampede again..Is a snare...is going to do nothing to stop a Bolt Escaping Sorc...Not in the history of the entire game has that Snare ever did anything to stop a sorc from escaping. And charging a Sorc over and over again isn't going to work either..Do you know why? Because your Stampede and Shield Charge is never going to do enough damage to get through their shields...If you actually do manage to charge him over and over again without him breaking LOS, or BE stunning you thus forcing ya to break free and thus letting the Sorc escape... One thing is going to happen..You're going to finally get him to stop..Because he's going to stop to kill you now because you're out of Stamina from wasting it charging him over and over again.

But he will be out of magicka. You are probably the loudest pro-nerf Sorc in PVP player on the forums now which is odd considering you seem to do really well in your PVP videos. I suggest you roll a Sorc so you can see the situation from the other side. My DK is almost there and I look forward to it.

A stamina DK will run out of Stamina long before a Magicka Sorc will run out of Magicka..Don't kid yourself.

Pancake-Tragedy

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

The only argument people have for BE retaining its increased magicka cost is that a sorc can BE away. Sure sorcs can kite/run away very well, but most players also seem to look past the fact that any build that uses a charge can stick with them the entire time.

You're talking about whether or not there should be a mechanic that restricts consecutive bolt escapes.
I'm talking about the fact that restricting bolt escapes is intended by ZOS and that there are better ways to do it, (namely ones that wouldn't so harshly impact stamina builds).

The restriction on BE came during a time when the entire community was crying about sorcs being able to run away from fights and no one figured out that a charge could follow a bolt escaping sorc.

You're right in that other mechanics would be irrelevant if they just gave up whole restriction concept. But they haven't. It has only gotten more restrictive over time because the method they are using is not a great way to do it.

Only one skill in the whole game has a restrictive mechanic. Can you guess which one it is?

Wait, you think people didn't know you could charge a sorc back then? That's why no one was doing it?


Charging a Sorc going in a straight line is all fun and dandy....But the second they broke LOS by Teleporting behind say a Tree or a Rock and you couldn't Charge them because your ability actually required LOS they'd be gone...and there is nothing you could do to stop them..They can do the same thing right now...only they can't come back 2 seconds later and open on ya again because Mana like before..That is really the only difference.

Everyone seems to have a story about the sorc that got away. You know, because escaping a fight is OP.

No one ever recalls how they "locked that noob streaking sorc" down with shield charges/talons/stampede/fear until the sorc was out of stamina and then that sorc turns into a punching bag.

Talons doesn't stop Bolt Escape..neither does Stampede... Shield Charge will for 1 time.. At least till they make it behind a tree

Talons forces a sorc to dodge roll, or only have one direction of bolt escape, which is the direction that the sorc is facing (it doesn't follow where the cursor is facing)

Stampede is just an example of a gap closer, I used stampede as the example because it also applies a snare which will definitely help in locking that sorc down.

Shield charge, another gap closer but this one comes with a stun. Once you are in range to shield charge once, you will be able to continuously shield charge that sorc unless they get line of sight from you. Also keep in mind, CC immunity only lasts 4 seconds, so in 8 seconds you can completely deplete a sorcs stamina (from 2 break frees, assuming the sorc is using tri-stat food and no other stamina contributions).

With the current restriction on BE, stamina based builds with their gap closers will out-pace a sorcs ability to BE away and have plenty of stamina left to be offensive. What is surprising to me, is that something so simple is eluding you...Your ability to use a skill with a charge counters my ability to bolt escape away once you are in range. The very fact that there is more than one way to counter a skill should lead one to believe that it is balanced.

I've never seen a Sorc bother to Dodge roll a Talons....You're out of your damn mind if you think that's going to happen when they can just Bolt escape...Stampede again..Is a snare...is going to do nothing to stop a Bolt Escaping Sorc...Not in the history of the entire game has that Snare ever did anything to stop a sorc from escaping. And charging a Sorc over and over again isn't going to work either..Do you know why? Because your Stampede and Shield Charge is never going to do enough damage to get through their shields...If you actually do manage to charge him over and over again without him breaking LOS, or BE stunning you thus forcing ya to break free and thus letting the Sorc escape... One thing is going to happen..You're going to finally get him to stop..Because he's going to stop to kill you now because you're out of Stamina from wasting it charging him over and over again.

But he will be out of magicka. You are probably the loudest pro-nerf Sorc in PVP player on the forums now which is odd considering you seem to do really well in your PVP videos. I suggest you roll a Sorc so you can see the situation from the other side. My DK is almost there and I look forward to it.

A stamina DK will run out of Stamina long before a Magicka Sorc will run out of Magicka..Don't kid yourself.

Didn't you make post about how it is possible to get over 3k stamina regen?

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153941/how-about-some-stamina-recovery-to-go-with-your-stamina-recovery-wood-elf-nightblade-build/p1

Erock25

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

The only argument people have for BE retaining its increased magicka cost is that a sorc can BE away. Sure sorcs can kite/run away very well, but most players also seem to look past the fact that any build that uses a charge can stick with them the entire time.

You're talking about whether or not there should be a mechanic that restricts consecutive bolt escapes.
I'm talking about the fact that restricting bolt escapes is intended by ZOS and that there are better ways to do it, (namely ones that wouldn't so harshly impact stamina builds).

The restriction on BE came during a time when the entire community was crying about sorcs being able to run away from fights and no one figured out that a charge could follow a bolt escaping sorc.

You're right in that other mechanics would be irrelevant if they just gave up whole restriction concept. But they haven't. It has only gotten more restrictive over time because the method they are using is not a great way to do it.

Only one skill in the whole game has a restrictive mechanic. Can you guess which one it is?

Wait, you think people didn't know you could charge a sorc back then? That's why no one was doing it?


Charging a Sorc going in a straight line is all fun and dandy....But the second they broke LOS by Teleporting behind say a Tree or a Rock and you couldn't Charge them because your ability actually required LOS they'd be gone...and there is nothing you could do to stop them..They can do the same thing right now...only they can't come back 2 seconds later and open on ya again because Mana like before..That is really the only difference.

Everyone seems to have a story about the sorc that got away. You know, because escaping a fight is OP.

No one ever recalls how they "locked that noob streaking sorc" down with shield charges/talons/stampede/fear until the sorc was out of stamina and then that sorc turns into a punching bag.

Talons doesn't stop Bolt Escape..neither does Stampede... Shield Charge will for 1 time.. At least till they make it behind a tree

Talons forces a sorc to dodge roll, or only have one direction of bolt escape, which is the direction that the sorc is facing (it doesn't follow where the cursor is facing)

Stampede is just an example of a gap closer, I used stampede as the example because it also applies a snare which will definitely help in locking that sorc down.

Shield charge, another gap closer but this one comes with a stun. Once you are in range to shield charge once, you will be able to continuously shield charge that sorc unless they get line of sight from you. Also keep in mind, CC immunity only lasts 4 seconds, so in 8 seconds you can completely deplete a sorcs stamina (from 2 break frees, assuming the sorc is using tri-stat food and no other stamina contributions).

With the current restriction on BE, stamina based builds with their gap closers will out-pace a sorcs ability to BE away and have plenty of stamina left to be offensive. What is surprising to me, is that something so simple is eluding you...Your ability to use a skill with a charge counters my ability to bolt escape away once you are in range. The very fact that there is more than one way to counter a skill should lead one to believe that it is balanced.

I've never seen a Sorc bother to Dodge roll a Talons....You're out of your damn mind if you think that's going to happen when they can just Bolt escape...Stampede again..Is a snare...is going to do nothing to stop a Bolt Escaping Sorc...Not in the history of the entire game has that Snare ever did anything to stop a sorc from escaping. And charging a Sorc over and over again isn't going to work either..Do you know why? Because your Stampede and Shield Charge is never going to do enough damage to get through their shields...If you actually do manage to charge him over and over again without him breaking LOS, or BE stunning you thus forcing ya to break free and thus letting the Sorc escape... One thing is going to happen..You're going to finally get him to stop..Because he's going to stop to kill you now because you're out of Stamina from wasting it charging him over and over again.

But he will be out of magicka. You are probably the loudest pro-nerf Sorc in PVP player on the forums now which is odd considering you seem to do really well in your PVP videos. I suggest you roll a Sorc so you can see the situation from the other side. My DK is almost there and I look forward to it.

A stamina DK will run out of Stamina long before a Magicka Sorc will run out of Magicka..Don't kid yourself.

I was messing around extensively with champion points on PTS and I honestly think it is the other way around. Stamina skills get reduced a quicker rate than magicka skills because of the double cost reduction via medium armor and weapon passives and they also have a generally lower base cost.

Now if you are talking about Dark Exchange specifically, well that Sorc now has not enough stamina to CC break and is one CC away from death.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

i dont think the overall nerf should be undone, but i do agree that it needs a slight buff. we are far more squishy than ever before. and about the expert mage nerf, i dont understand why it was implemented in the first place.

Jahosefat

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Now, he just seems like a salty DK that lost his OPness.

DKs are finally dying from ranged attacks after a year of infinite invulnerability, it is only natural to be a little frustrated

Xsorus

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

The only argument people have for BE retaining its increased magicka cost is that a sorc can BE away. Sure sorcs can kite/run away very well, but most players also seem to look past the fact that any build that uses a charge can stick with them the entire time.

You're talking about whether or not there should be a mechanic that restricts consecutive bolt escapes.
I'm talking about the fact that restricting bolt escapes is intended by ZOS and that there are better ways to do it, (namely ones that wouldn't so harshly impact stamina builds).

The restriction on BE came during a time when the entire community was crying about sorcs being able to run away from fights and no one figured out that a charge could follow a bolt escaping sorc.

You're right in that other mechanics would be irrelevant if they just gave up whole restriction concept. But they haven't. It has only gotten more restrictive over time because the method they are using is not a great way to do it.

Only one skill in the whole game has a restrictive mechanic. Can you guess which one it is?

Wait, you think people didn't know you could charge a sorc back then? That's why no one was doing it?


Charging a Sorc going in a straight line is all fun and dandy....But the second they broke LOS by Teleporting behind say a Tree or a Rock and you couldn't Charge them because your ability actually required LOS they'd be gone...and there is nothing you could do to stop them..They can do the same thing right now...only they can't come back 2 seconds later and open on ya again because Mana like before..That is really the only difference.

Everyone seems to have a story about the sorc that got away. You know, because escaping a fight is OP.

No one ever recalls how they "locked that noob streaking sorc" down with shield charges/talons/stampede/fear until the sorc was out of stamina and then that sorc turns into a punching bag.

Talons doesn't stop Bolt Escape..neither does Stampede... Shield Charge will for 1 time.. At least till they make it behind a tree

Talons forces a sorc to dodge roll, or only have one direction of bolt escape, which is the direction that the sorc is facing (it doesn't follow where the cursor is facing)

Stampede is just an example of a gap closer, I used stampede as the example because it also applies a snare which will definitely help in locking that sorc down.

Shield charge, another gap closer but this one comes with a stun. Once you are in range to shield charge once, you will be able to continuously shield charge that sorc unless they get line of sight from you. Also keep in mind, CC immunity only lasts 4 seconds, so in 8 seconds you can completely deplete a sorcs stamina (from 2 break frees, assuming the sorc is using tri-stat food and no other stamina contributions).

With the current restriction on BE, stamina based builds with their gap closers will out-pace a sorcs ability to BE away and have plenty of stamina left to be offensive. What is surprising to me, is that something so simple is eluding you...Your ability to use a skill with a charge counters my ability to bolt escape away once you are in range. The very fact that there is more than one way to counter a skill should lead one to believe that it is balanced.

I've never seen a Sorc bother to Dodge roll a Talons....You're out of your damn mind if you think that's going to happen when they can just Bolt escape...Stampede again..Is a snare...is going to do nothing to stop a Bolt Escaping Sorc...Not in the history of the entire game has that Snare ever did anything to stop a sorc from escaping. And charging a Sorc over and over again isn't going to work either..Do you know why? Because your Stampede and Shield Charge is never going to do enough damage to get through their shields...If you actually do manage to charge him over and over again without him breaking LOS, or BE stunning you thus forcing ya to break free and thus letting the Sorc escape... One thing is going to happen..You're going to finally get him to stop..Because he's going to stop to kill you now because you're out of Stamina from wasting it charging him over and over again.

But he will be out of magicka. You are probably the loudest pro-nerf Sorc in PVP player on the forums now which is odd considering you seem to do really well in your PVP videos. I suggest you roll a Sorc so you can see the situation from the other side. My DK is almost there and I look forward to it.

A stamina DK will run out of Stamina long before a Magicka Sorc will run out of Magicka..Don't kid yourself.

Didn't you make post about how it is possible to get over 3k stamina regen?

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/153941/how-about-some-stamina-recovery-to-go-with-your-stamina-recovery-wood-elf-nightblade-build/p1

Did you bother reading that post?

Xsorus

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

The only argument people have for BE retaining its increased magicka cost is that a sorc can BE away. Sure sorcs can kite/run away very well, but most players also seem to look past the fact that any build that uses a charge can stick with them the entire time.

You're talking about whether or not there should be a mechanic that restricts consecutive bolt escapes.
I'm talking about the fact that restricting bolt escapes is intended by ZOS and that there are better ways to do it, (namely ones that wouldn't so harshly impact stamina builds).

The restriction on BE came during a time when the entire community was crying about sorcs being able to run away from fights and no one figured out that a charge could follow a bolt escaping sorc.

You're right in that other mechanics would be irrelevant if they just gave up whole restriction concept. But they haven't. It has only gotten more restrictive over time because the method they are using is not a great way to do it.

Only one skill in the whole game has a restrictive mechanic. Can you guess which one it is?

Wait, you think people didn't know you could charge a sorc back then? That's why no one was doing it?


Charging a Sorc going in a straight line is all fun and dandy....But the second they broke LOS by Teleporting behind say a Tree or a Rock and you couldn't Charge them because your ability actually required LOS they'd be gone...and there is nothing you could do to stop them..They can do the same thing right now...only they can't come back 2 seconds later and open on ya again because Mana like before..That is really the only difference.

Everyone seems to have a story about the sorc that got away. You know, because escaping a fight is OP.

No one ever recalls how they "locked that noob streaking sorc" down with shield charges/talons/stampede/fear until the sorc was out of stamina and then that sorc turns into a punching bag.

Talons doesn't stop Bolt Escape..neither does Stampede... Shield Charge will for 1 time.. At least till they make it behind a tree

Talons forces a sorc to dodge roll, or only have one direction of bolt escape, which is the direction that the sorc is facing (it doesn't follow where the cursor is facing)

Stampede is just an example of a gap closer, I used stampede as the example because it also applies a snare which will definitely help in locking that sorc down.

Shield charge, another gap closer but this one comes with a stun. Once you are in range to shield charge once, you will be able to continuously shield charge that sorc unless they get line of sight from you. Also keep in mind, CC immunity only lasts 4 seconds, so in 8 seconds you can completely deplete a sorcs stamina (from 2 break frees, assuming the sorc is using tri-stat food and no other stamina contributions).

With the current restriction on BE, stamina based builds with their gap closers will out-pace a sorcs ability to BE away and have plenty of stamina left to be offensive. What is surprising to me, is that something so simple is eluding you...Your ability to use a skill with a charge counters my ability to bolt escape away once you are in range. The very fact that there is more than one way to counter a skill should lead one to believe that it is balanced.

I've never seen a Sorc bother to Dodge roll a Talons....You're out of your damn mind if you think that's going to happen when they can just Bolt escape...Stampede again..Is a snare...is going to do nothing to stop a Bolt Escaping Sorc...Not in the history of the entire game has that Snare ever did anything to stop a sorc from escaping. And charging a Sorc over and over again isn't going to work either..Do you know why? Because your Stampede and Shield Charge is never going to do enough damage to get through their shields...If you actually do manage to charge him over and over again without him breaking LOS, or BE stunning you thus forcing ya to break free and thus letting the Sorc escape... One thing is going to happen..You're going to finally get him to stop..Because he's going to stop to kill you now because you're out of Stamina from wasting it charging him over and over again.

But he will be out of magicka. You are probably the loudest pro-nerf Sorc in PVP player on the forums now which is odd considering you seem to do really well in your PVP videos. I suggest you roll a Sorc so you can see the situation from the other side. My DK is almost there and I look forward to it.

A stamina DK will run out of Stamina long before a Magicka Sorc will run out of Magicka..Don't kid yourself.

I was messing around extensively with champion points on PTS and I honestly think it is the other way around. Stamina skills get reduced a quicker rate than magicka skills because of the double cost reduction via medium armor and weapon passives and they also have a generally lower base cost.

Now if you are talking about Dark Exchange specifically, well that Sorc now has not enough stamina to CC break and is one CC away from death.

Did we play the same PTS? Because I seem to remember never once running out of Mana on PTS when I had lots of Champion Points.

Stamina on the other hand...Ran out quite a bit..Unless you do funny niche race/class builds

Well there was that one point when Unchained was just silly...if it was still 8 seconds you'd have a point.

Tankqull

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

The only argument people have for BE retaining its increased magicka cost is that a sorc can BE away. Sure sorcs can kite/run away very well, but most players also seem to look past the fact that any build that uses a charge can stick with them the entire time.

You're talking about whether or not there should be a mechanic that restricts consecutive bolt escapes.
I'm talking about the fact that restricting bolt escapes is intended by ZOS and that there are better ways to do it, (namely ones that wouldn't so harshly impact stamina builds).

The restriction on BE came during a time when the entire community was crying about sorcs being able to run away from fights and no one figured out that a charge could follow a bolt escaping sorc.

You're right in that other mechanics would be irrelevant if they just gave up whole restriction concept. But they haven't. It has only gotten more restrictive over time because the method they are using is not a great way to do it.

Only one skill in the whole game has a restrictive mechanic. Can you guess which one it is?

Wait, you think people didn't know you could charge a sorc back then? That's why no one was doing it?


Charging a Sorc going in a straight line is all fun and dandy....But the second they broke LOS by Teleporting behind say a Tree or a Rock and you couldn't Charge them because your ability actually required LOS they'd be gone...and there is nothing you could do to stop them..They can do the same thing right now...only they can't come back 2 seconds later and open on ya again because Mana like before..That is really the only difference.

Everyone seems to have a story about the sorc that got away. You know, because escaping a fight is OP.

No one ever recalls how they "locked that noob streaking sorc" down with shield charges/talons/stampede/fear until the sorc was out of stamina and then that sorc turns into a punching bag.

Talons doesn't stop Bolt Escape..neither does Stampede... Shield Charge will for 1 time.. At least till they make it behind a tree

Talons forces a sorc to dodge roll, or only have one direction of bolt escape, which is the direction that the sorc is facing (it doesn't follow where the cursor is facing)

Stampede is just an example of a gap closer, I used stampede as the example because it also applies a snare which will definitely help in locking that sorc down.

Shield charge, another gap closer but this one comes with a stun. Once you are in range to shield charge once, you will be able to continuously shield charge that sorc unless they get line of sight from you. Also keep in mind, CC immunity only lasts 4 seconds, so in 8 seconds you can completely deplete a sorcs stamina (from 2 break frees, assuming the sorc is using tri-stat food and no other stamina contributions).

With the current restriction on BE, stamina based builds with their gap closers will out-pace a sorcs ability to BE away and have plenty of stamina left to be offensive. What is surprising to me, is that something so simple is eluding you...Your ability to use a skill with a charge counters my ability to bolt escape away once you are in range. The very fact that there is more than one way to counter a skill should lead one to believe that it is balanced.

I've never seen a Sorc bother to Dodge roll a Talons....You're out of your damn mind if you think that's going to happen when they can just Bolt escape...Stampede again..Is a snare...is going to do nothing to stop a Bolt Escaping Sorc...Not in the history of the entire game has that Snare ever did anything to stop a sorc from escaping. And charging a Sorc over and over again isn't going to work either..Do you know why? Because your Stampede and Shield Charge is never going to do enough damage to get through their shields...If you actually do manage to charge him over and over again without him breaking LOS, or BE stunning you thus forcing ya to break free and thus letting the Sorc escape... One thing is going to happen..You're going to finally get him to stop..Because he's going to stop to kill you now because you're out of Stamina from wasting it charging him over and over again.

that was because prior to 1.6 you boltet into the direction you turn your camera than the char ways looking. to get rid of a charge spammer you allways had to cc him by yourself wich is simply not possible with the current implementation, thats why you have to break free from a root to get away from him.

Tankqull

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

The only argument people have for BE retaining its increased magicka cost is that a sorc can BE away. Sure sorcs can kite/run away very well, but most players also seem to look past the fact that any build that uses a charge can stick with them the entire time.

You're talking about whether or not there should be a mechanic that restricts consecutive bolt escapes.
I'm talking about the fact that restricting bolt escapes is intended by ZOS and that there are better ways to do it, (namely ones that wouldn't so harshly impact stamina builds).

The restriction on BE came during a time when the entire community was crying about sorcs being able to run away from fights and no one figured out that a charge could follow a bolt escaping sorc.

You're right in that other mechanics would be irrelevant if they just gave up whole restriction concept. But they haven't. It has only gotten more restrictive over time because the method they are using is not a great way to do it.

Only one skill in the whole game has a restrictive mechanic. Can you guess which one it is?

Wait, you think people didn't know you could charge a sorc back then? That's why no one was doing it?


Charging a Sorc going in a straight line is all fun and dandy....But the second they broke LOS by Teleporting behind say a Tree or a Rock and you couldn't Charge them because your ability actually required LOS they'd be gone...and there is nothing you could do to stop them..They can do the same thing right now...only they can't come back 2 seconds later and open on ya again because Mana like before..That is really the only difference.

Everyone seems to have a story about the sorc that got away. You know, because escaping a fight is OP.

No one ever recalls how they "locked that noob streaking sorc" down with shield charges/talons/stampede/fear until the sorc was out of stamina and then that sorc turns into a punching bag.

Talons doesn't stop Bolt Escape..neither does Stampede... Shield Charge will for 1 time.. At least till they make it behind a tree

Talons forces a sorc to dodge roll, or only have one direction of bolt escape, which is the direction that the sorc is facing (it doesn't follow where the cursor is facing)

Stampede is just an example of a gap closer, I used stampede as the example because it also applies a snare which will definitely help in locking that sorc down.

Shield charge, another gap closer but this one comes with a stun. Once you are in range to shield charge once, you will be able to continuously shield charge that sorc unless they get line of sight from you. Also keep in mind, CC immunity only lasts 4 seconds, so in 8 seconds you can completely deplete a sorcs stamina (from 2 break frees, assuming the sorc is using tri-stat food and no other stamina contributions).

With the current restriction on BE, stamina based builds with their gap closers will out-pace a sorcs ability to BE away and have plenty of stamina left to be offensive. What is surprising to me, is that something so simple is eluding you...Your ability to use a skill with a charge counters my ability to bolt escape away once you are in range. The very fact that there is more than one way to counter a skill should lead one to believe that it is balanced.

I've never seen a Sorc bother to Dodge roll a Talons....You're out of your damn mind if you think that's going to happen when they can just Bolt escape...Stampede again..Is a snare...is going to do nothing to stop a Bolt Escaping Sorc...Not in the history of the entire game has that Snare ever did anything to stop a sorc from escaping. And charging a Sorc over and over again isn't going to work either..Do you know why? Because your Stampede and Shield Charge is never going to do enough damage to get through their shields...If you actually do manage to charge him over and over again without him breaking LOS, or BE stunning you thus forcing ya to break free and thus letting the Sorc escape... One thing is going to happen..You're going to finally get him to stop..Because he's going to stop to kill you now because you're out of Stamina from wasting it charging him over and over again.

But he will be out of magicka. You are probably the loudest pro-nerf Sorc in PVP player on the forums now which is odd considering you seem to do really well in your PVP videos. I suggest you roll a Sorc so you can see the situation from the other side. My DK is almost there and I look forward to it.

A stamina DK will run out of Stamina long before a Magicka Sorc will run out of Magicka..Don't kid yourself.

LOL nothing else left to be said.
how on earth are you running quicker out of stamina if every stamina ability cost less than 60% of its magica pendant while doing 15-20% more bang for its bucks...

Erock25

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

The only argument people have for BE retaining its increased magicka cost is that a sorc can BE away. Sure sorcs can kite/run away very well, but most players also seem to look past the fact that any build that uses a charge can stick with them the entire time.

You're talking about whether or not there should be a mechanic that restricts consecutive bolt escapes.
I'm talking about the fact that restricting bolt escapes is intended by ZOS and that there are better ways to do it, (namely ones that wouldn't so harshly impact stamina builds).

The restriction on BE came during a time when the entire community was crying about sorcs being able to run away from fights and no one figured out that a charge could follow a bolt escaping sorc.

You're right in that other mechanics would be irrelevant if they just gave up whole restriction concept. But they haven't. It has only gotten more restrictive over time because the method they are using is not a great way to do it.

Only one skill in the whole game has a restrictive mechanic. Can you guess which one it is?

Wait, you think people didn't know you could charge a sorc back then? That's why no one was doing it?


Charging a Sorc going in a straight line is all fun and dandy....But the second they broke LOS by Teleporting behind say a Tree or a Rock and you couldn't Charge them because your ability actually required LOS they'd be gone...and there is nothing you could do to stop them..They can do the same thing right now...only they can't come back 2 seconds later and open on ya again because Mana like before..That is really the only difference.

Everyone seems to have a story about the sorc that got away. You know, because escaping a fight is OP.

No one ever recalls how they "locked that noob streaking sorc" down with shield charges/talons/stampede/fear until the sorc was out of stamina and then that sorc turns into a punching bag.

Talons doesn't stop Bolt Escape..neither does Stampede... Shield Charge will for 1 time.. At least till they make it behind a tree

Talons forces a sorc to dodge roll, or only have one direction of bolt escape, which is the direction that the sorc is facing (it doesn't follow where the cursor is facing)

Stampede is just an example of a gap closer, I used stampede as the example because it also applies a snare which will definitely help in locking that sorc down.

Shield charge, another gap closer but this one comes with a stun. Once you are in range to shield charge once, you will be able to continuously shield charge that sorc unless they get line of sight from you. Also keep in mind, CC immunity only lasts 4 seconds, so in 8 seconds you can completely deplete a sorcs stamina (from 2 break frees, assuming the sorc is using tri-stat food and no other stamina contributions).

With the current restriction on BE, stamina based builds with their gap closers will out-pace a sorcs ability to BE away and have plenty of stamina left to be offensive. What is surprising to me, is that something so simple is eluding you...Your ability to use a skill with a charge counters my ability to bolt escape away once you are in range. The very fact that there is more than one way to counter a skill should lead one to believe that it is balanced.

I've never seen a Sorc bother to Dodge roll a Talons....You're out of your damn mind if you think that's going to happen when they can just Bolt escape...Stampede again..Is a snare...is going to do nothing to stop a Bolt Escaping Sorc...Not in the history of the entire game has that Snare ever did anything to stop a sorc from escaping. And charging a Sorc over and over again isn't going to work either..Do you know why? Because your Stampede and Shield Charge is never going to do enough damage to get through their shields...If you actually do manage to charge him over and over again without him breaking LOS, or BE stunning you thus forcing ya to break free and thus letting the Sorc escape... One thing is going to happen..You're going to finally get him to stop..Because he's going to stop to kill you now because you're out of Stamina from wasting it charging him over and over again.

But he will be out of magicka. You are probably the loudest pro-nerf Sorc in PVP player on the forums now which is odd considering you seem to do really well in your PVP videos. I suggest you roll a Sorc so you can see the situation from the other side. My DK is almost there and I look forward to it.

A stamina DK will run out of Stamina long before a Magicka Sorc will run out of Magicka..Don't kid yourself.

I was messing around extensively with champion points on PTS and I honestly think it is the other way around. Stamina skills get reduced a quicker rate than magicka skills because of the double cost reduction via medium armor and weapon passives and they also have a generally lower base cost.

Now if you are talking about Dark Exchange specifically, well that Sorc now has not enough stamina to CC break and is one CC away from death.

Did we play the same PTS? Because I seem to remember never once running out of Mana on PTS when I had lots of Champion Points.

Stamina on the other hand...Ran out quite a bit..Unless you do funny niche race/class builds

Well there was that one point when Unchained was just silly...if it was still 8 seconds you'd have a point.

IIRC my Crit Charge was something like 1200 stamina versus 1900 magicka for the first Bolt Escape followed by much more expensive ones after that.

Jahosefat

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

The only argument people have for BE retaining its increased magicka cost is that a sorc can BE away. Sure sorcs can kite/run away very well, but most players also seem to look past the fact that any build that uses a charge can stick with them the entire time.

You're talking about whether or not there should be a mechanic that restricts consecutive bolt escapes.
I'm talking about the fact that restricting bolt escapes is intended by ZOS and that there are better ways to do it, (namely ones that wouldn't so harshly impact stamina builds).

The restriction on BE came during a time when the entire community was crying about sorcs being able to run away from fights and no one figured out that a charge could follow a bolt escaping sorc.

You're right in that other mechanics would be irrelevant if they just gave up whole restriction concept. But they haven't. It has only gotten more restrictive over time because the method they are using is not a great way to do it.

Only one skill in the whole game has a restrictive mechanic. Can you guess which one it is?

Wait, you think people didn't know you could charge a sorc back then? That's why no one was doing it?


Charging a Sorc going in a straight line is all fun and dandy....But the second they broke LOS by Teleporting behind say a Tree or a Rock and you couldn't Charge them because your ability actually required LOS they'd be gone...and there is nothing you could do to stop them..They can do the same thing right now...only they can't come back 2 seconds later and open on ya again because Mana like before..That is really the only difference.

Everyone seems to have a story about the sorc that got away. You know, because escaping a fight is OP.

No one ever recalls how they "locked that noob streaking sorc" down with shield charges/talons/stampede/fear until the sorc was out of stamina and then that sorc turns into a punching bag.

Talons doesn't stop Bolt Escape..neither does Stampede... Shield Charge will for 1 time.. At least till they make it behind a tree

Talons forces a sorc to dodge roll, or only have one direction of bolt escape, which is the direction that the sorc is facing (it doesn't follow where the cursor is facing)

Stampede is just an example of a gap closer, I used stampede as the example because it also applies a snare which will definitely help in locking that sorc down.

Shield charge, another gap closer but this one comes with a stun. Once you are in range to shield charge once, you will be able to continuously shield charge that sorc unless they get line of sight from you. Also keep in mind, CC immunity only lasts 4 seconds, so in 8 seconds you can completely deplete a sorcs stamina (from 2 break frees, assuming the sorc is using tri-stat food and no other stamina contributions).

With the current restriction on BE, stamina based builds with their gap closers will out-pace a sorcs ability to BE away and have plenty of stamina left to be offensive. What is surprising to me, is that something so simple is eluding you...Your ability to use a skill with a charge counters my ability to bolt escape away once you are in range. The very fact that there is more than one way to counter a skill should lead one to believe that it is balanced.

I've never seen a Sorc bother to Dodge roll a Talons....You're out of your damn mind if you think that's going to happen when they can just Bolt escape...Stampede again..Is a snare...is going to do nothing to stop a Bolt Escaping Sorc...Not in the history of the entire game has that Snare ever did anything to stop a sorc from escaping. And charging a Sorc over and over again isn't going to work either..Do you know why? Because your Stampede and Shield Charge is never going to do enough damage to get through their shields...If you actually do manage to charge him over and over again without him breaking LOS, or BE stunning you thus forcing ya to break free and thus letting the Sorc escape... One thing is going to happen..You're going to finally get him to stop..Because he's going to stop to kill you now because you're out of Stamina from wasting it charging him over and over again.

But he will be out of magicka. You are probably the loudest pro-nerf Sorc in PVP player on the forums now which is odd considering you seem to do really well in your PVP videos. I suggest you roll a Sorc so you can see the situation from the other side. My DK is almost there and I look forward to it.

A stamina DK will run out of Stamina long before a Magicka Sorc will run out of Magicka..Don't kid yourself.

I was messing around extensively with champion points on PTS and I honestly think it is the other way around. Stamina skills get reduced a quicker rate than magicka skills because of the double cost reduction via medium armor and weapon passives and they also have a generally lower base cost.

Now if you are talking about Dark Exchange specifically, well that Sorc now has not enough stamina to CC break and is one CC away from death.

Did we play the same PTS? Because I seem to remember never once running out of Mana on PTS when I had lots of Champion Points.

Stamina on the other hand...Ran out quite a bit..Unless you do funny niche race/class builds

Well there was that one point when Unchained was just silly...if it was still 8 seconds you'd have a point.

Check out the relative base mag cost of sorc abilities vs. mag abilities of other classes (before any reduction/racial differences). Sorc skills cost a lot, like double the other classes. So the longevity of a mag DK etc. vs. sorc with same max mag/regen/cost reduction is going to be better.

I think the problem is perception: sometimes when I am out of resources and fleeing from a group I'll just turn around and start light attacking/crushing shock the first person that comes into range. A lot of times they will turn around and run back out of range and I proceed to continue fleeing. With enough regen you can crushing shock/light attack with basically 0 mag; and you can actually gain mag and appear scary by doing 2-3 light attacks followed by crushing shock (you can also do this with frag proc and curse). So you turn and keep people away with cheap DPS (maybe get some kills on the overly bold) then continue fleeing when you've got enough mag back (if you are still being pursued by an unmanageable number). From the outside I'm sure this looks like I never run out of mag, but in actuality I'm pretty much sitting on empty the whole time. I also invested more into my stam management than most sorcs, at the detriment of mag management and DPS, because "a sorc with no stam is a dead sorc".

Also, if you aren't taking advantage of the nirn-honed bug (which I am not, am not a fan of using bugs) you definitely notice a difference in DPS when you switch between full light targets (no shield) and full medium.

Snit

Jahosefat wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Now, he just seems like a salty DK that lost his OPness.

DKs are finally dying from ranged attacks after a year of infinite invulnerability, it is only natural to be a little frustrated

The dominance of DK 2H Stamina Wrecking Blow builds does have one upside for magicka sorcs and NB's -- less scalespam.

In 1.5, it seemed that 60% of Cyrodiil was DK's, and 90% of them made frequent use of scales. We still see more DK's than any other class (and possibly more than any two classes combined), but many of them no longer chain-cast the flaps.

Tankqull

Snit wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Now, he just seems like a salty DK that lost his OPness.

DKs are finally dying from ranged attacks after a year of infinite invulnerability, it is only natural to be a little frustrated

The dominance of DK 2H Stamina Wrecking Blow builds does have one upside for magicka sorcs and NB's -- less scalespam.

In 1.5, it seemed that 60% of Cyrodiil was DK's, and 90% of them made frequent use of scales. We still see more DK's than any other class (and possibly more than any two classes combined), but many of them no longer chain-cast the flaps.

the dmg we gain by that is easily compensated by the fact all our attacks are now blockable leading to less dmg dealt than ever before.

Xsorus

Tankqull wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

The only argument people have for BE retaining its increased magicka cost is that a sorc can BE away. Sure sorcs can kite/run away very well, but most players also seem to look past the fact that any build that uses a charge can stick with them the entire time.

You're talking about whether or not there should be a mechanic that restricts consecutive bolt escapes.
I'm talking about the fact that restricting bolt escapes is intended by ZOS and that there are better ways to do it, (namely ones that wouldn't so harshly impact stamina builds).

The restriction on BE came during a time when the entire community was crying about sorcs being able to run away from fights and no one figured out that a charge could follow a bolt escaping sorc.

You're right in that other mechanics would be irrelevant if they just gave up whole restriction concept. But they haven't. It has only gotten more restrictive over time because the method they are using is not a great way to do it.

Only one skill in the whole game has a restrictive mechanic. Can you guess which one it is?

Wait, you think people didn't know you could charge a sorc back then? That's why no one was doing it?


Charging a Sorc going in a straight line is all fun and dandy....But the second they broke LOS by Teleporting behind say a Tree or a Rock and you couldn't Charge them because your ability actually required LOS they'd be gone...and there is nothing you could do to stop them..They can do the same thing right now...only they can't come back 2 seconds later and open on ya again because Mana like before..That is really the only difference.

Everyone seems to have a story about the sorc that got away. You know, because escaping a fight is OP.

No one ever recalls how they "locked that noob streaking sorc" down with shield charges/talons/stampede/fear until the sorc was out of stamina and then that sorc turns into a punching bag.

Talons doesn't stop Bolt Escape..neither does Stampede... Shield Charge will for 1 time.. At least till they make it behind a tree

Talons forces a sorc to dodge roll, or only have one direction of bolt escape, which is the direction that the sorc is facing (it doesn't follow where the cursor is facing)

Stampede is just an example of a gap closer, I used stampede as the example because it also applies a snare which will definitely help in locking that sorc down.

Shield charge, another gap closer but this one comes with a stun. Once you are in range to shield charge once, you will be able to continuously shield charge that sorc unless they get line of sight from you. Also keep in mind, CC immunity only lasts 4 seconds, so in 8 seconds you can completely deplete a sorcs stamina (from 2 break frees, assuming the sorc is using tri-stat food and no other stamina contributions).

With the current restriction on BE, stamina based builds with their gap closers will out-pace a sorcs ability to BE away and have plenty of stamina left to be offensive. What is surprising to me, is that something so simple is eluding you...Your ability to use a skill with a charge counters my ability to bolt escape away once you are in range. The very fact that there is more than one way to counter a skill should lead one to believe that it is balanced.

I've never seen a Sorc bother to Dodge roll a Talons....You're out of your damn mind if you think that's going to happen when they can just Bolt escape...Stampede again..Is a snare...is going to do nothing to stop a Bolt Escaping Sorc...Not in the history of the entire game has that Snare ever did anything to stop a sorc from escaping. And charging a Sorc over and over again isn't going to work either..Do you know why? Because your Stampede and Shield Charge is never going to do enough damage to get through their shields...If you actually do manage to charge him over and over again without him breaking LOS, or BE stunning you thus forcing ya to break free and thus letting the Sorc escape... One thing is going to happen..You're going to finally get him to stop..Because he's going to stop to kill you now because you're out of Stamina from wasting it charging him over and over again.

But he will be out of magicka. You are probably the loudest pro-nerf Sorc in PVP player on the forums now which is odd considering you seem to do really well in your PVP videos. I suggest you roll a Sorc so you can see the situation from the other side. My DK is almost there and I look forward to it.

A stamina DK will run out of Stamina long before a Magicka Sorc will run out of Magicka..Don't kid yourself.

LOL nothing else left to be said.
how on earth are you running quicker out of stamina if every stamina ability cost less than 60% of its magica pendant while doing 15-20% more bang for its bucks...

Because Stamina is used up by things like Blocking/Dodging/Break Free...you know those things Magicka doesn't have to deal with.

Lets sum up this silliness right here

How many of you have actually died to a Stamina Dk in a 1v1 this patch, and can you name that player or provide a video of it?

I'm not talking about you getting zerged..I'm talking about straight up a Stamina DK with a 2 hander has chased you down and pwnt you.

Xsorus

Tankqull wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Now, he just seems like a salty DK that lost his OPness.

DKs are finally dying from ranged attacks after a year of infinite invulnerability, it is only natural to be a little frustrated

The dominance of DK 2H Stamina Wrecking Blow builds does have one upside for magicka sorcs and NB's -- less scalespam.

In 1.5, it seemed that 60% of Cyrodiil was DK's, and 90% of them made frequent use of scales. We still see more DK's than any other class (and possibly more than any two classes combined), but many of them no longer chain-cast the flaps.

the dmg we gain by that is easily compensated by the fact all our attacks are now blockable leading to less dmg dealt than ever before.

But that also leads to the stamina user running out of Stamina Quicker thus dying because he can't break free.

Tankqull

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Now, he just seems like a salty DK that lost his OPness.

DKs are finally dying from ranged attacks after a year of infinite invulnerability, it is only natural to be a little frustrated

The dominance of DK 2H Stamina Wrecking Blow builds does have one upside for magicka sorcs and NB's -- less scalespam.

In 1.5, it seemed that 60% of Cyrodiil was DK's, and 90% of them made frequent use of scales. We still see more DK's than any other class (and possibly more than any two classes combined), but many of them no longer chain-cast the flaps.

the dmg we gain by that is easily compensated by the fact all our attacks are now blockable leading to less dmg dealt than ever before.

But that also leads to the stamina user running out of Stamina Quicker thus dying because he can't break free.

break free from what? the tremendous amount of unblockable cc sorcs provide? or the laughter when blocking 3 attacks of a sorc barely cost 5% stamina as range spells have a reduced stamina cost when beeing blocked wich becomes even more laughable when using a shield tied to your arm...

Tankqull

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

The only argument people have for BE retaining its increased magicka cost is that a sorc can BE away. Sure sorcs can kite/run away very well, but most players also seem to look past the fact that any build that uses a charge can stick with them the entire time.

You're talking about whether or not there should be a mechanic that restricts consecutive bolt escapes.
I'm talking about the fact that restricting bolt escapes is intended by ZOS and that there are better ways to do it, (namely ones that wouldn't so harshly impact stamina builds).

The restriction on BE came during a time when the entire community was crying about sorcs being able to run away from fights and no one figured out that a charge could follow a bolt escaping sorc.

You're right in that other mechanics would be irrelevant if they just gave up whole restriction concept. But they haven't. It has only gotten more restrictive over time because the method they are using is not a great way to do it.

Only one skill in the whole game has a restrictive mechanic. Can you guess which one it is?

Wait, you think people didn't know you could charge a sorc back then? That's why no one was doing it?


Charging a Sorc going in a straight line is all fun and dandy....But the second they broke LOS by Teleporting behind say a Tree or a Rock and you couldn't Charge them because your ability actually required LOS they'd be gone...and there is nothing you could do to stop them..They can do the same thing right now...only they can't come back 2 seconds later and open on ya again because Mana like before..That is really the only difference.

Everyone seems to have a story about the sorc that got away. You know, because escaping a fight is OP.

No one ever recalls how they "locked that noob streaking sorc" down with shield charges/talons/stampede/fear until the sorc was out of stamina and then that sorc turns into a punching bag.

Talons doesn't stop Bolt Escape..neither does Stampede... Shield Charge will for 1 time.. At least till they make it behind a tree

Talons forces a sorc to dodge roll, or only have one direction of bolt escape, which is the direction that the sorc is facing (it doesn't follow where the cursor is facing)

Stampede is just an example of a gap closer, I used stampede as the example because it also applies a snare which will definitely help in locking that sorc down.

Shield charge, another gap closer but this one comes with a stun. Once you are in range to shield charge once, you will be able to continuously shield charge that sorc unless they get line of sight from you. Also keep in mind, CC immunity only lasts 4 seconds, so in 8 seconds you can completely deplete a sorcs stamina (from 2 break frees, assuming the sorc is using tri-stat food and no other stamina contributions).

With the current restriction on BE, stamina based builds with their gap closers will out-pace a sorcs ability to BE away and have plenty of stamina left to be offensive. What is surprising to me, is that something so simple is eluding you...Your ability to use a skill with a charge counters my ability to bolt escape away once you are in range. The very fact that there is more than one way to counter a skill should lead one to believe that it is balanced.

I've never seen a Sorc bother to Dodge roll a Talons....You're out of your damn mind if you think that's going to happen when they can just Bolt escape...Stampede again..Is a snare...is going to do nothing to stop a Bolt Escaping Sorc...Not in the history of the entire game has that Snare ever did anything to stop a sorc from escaping. And charging a Sorc over and over again isn't going to work either..Do you know why? Because your Stampede and Shield Charge is never going to do enough damage to get through their shields...If you actually do manage to charge him over and over again without him breaking LOS, or BE stunning you thus forcing ya to break free and thus letting the Sorc escape... One thing is going to happen..You're going to finally get him to stop..Because he's going to stop to kill you now because you're out of Stamina from wasting it charging him over and over again.

But he will be out of magicka. You are probably the loudest pro-nerf Sorc in PVP player on the forums now which is odd considering you seem to do really well in your PVP videos. I suggest you roll a Sorc so you can see the situation from the other side. My DK is almost there and I look forward to it.

A stamina DK will run out of Stamina long before a Magicka Sorc will run out of Magicka..Don't kid yourself.

LOL nothing else left to be said.
how on earth are you running quicker out of stamina if every stamina ability cost less than 60% of its magica pendant while doing 15-20% more bang for its bucks...

Because Stamina is used up by things like Blocking/Dodging/Break Free...you know those things Magicka doesn't have to deal with.

Lets sum up this silliness right here

How many of you have actually died to a Stamina Dk in a 1v1 this patch, and can you name that player or provide a video of it?

I'm not talking about you getting zerged..I'm talking about straight up a Stamina DK with a 2 hander has chased you down and pwnt you.

at the moment any DK losing a 1vs1 with petrify as it is couldn´t find his arse with both hands.

Erock25

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Because Stamina is used up by things like Blocking/Dodging/Break Free...you know those things Magicka doesn't have to deal with.

Lets sum up this silliness right here

How many of you have actually died to a Stamina Dk in a 1v1 this patch, and can you name that player or provide a video of it?

I'll start turning on Shadowplay just for you.

Pancake-Tragedy

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

The only argument people have for BE retaining its increased magicka cost is that a sorc can BE away. Sure sorcs can kite/run away very well, but most players also seem to look past the fact that any build that uses a charge can stick with them the entire time.

You're talking about whether or not there should be a mechanic that restricts consecutive bolt escapes.
I'm talking about the fact that restricting bolt escapes is intended by ZOS and that there are better ways to do it, (namely ones that wouldn't so harshly impact stamina builds).

The restriction on BE came during a time when the entire community was crying about sorcs being able to run away from fights and no one figured out that a charge could follow a bolt escaping sorc.

You're right in that other mechanics would be irrelevant if they just gave up whole restriction concept. But they haven't. It has only gotten more restrictive over time because the method they are using is not a great way to do it.

Only one skill in the whole game has a restrictive mechanic. Can you guess which one it is?

Wait, you think people didn't know you could charge a sorc back then? That's why no one was doing it?


Charging a Sorc going in a straight line is all fun and dandy....But the second they broke LOS by Teleporting behind say a Tree or a Rock and you couldn't Charge them because your ability actually required LOS they'd be gone...and there is nothing you could do to stop them..They can do the same thing right now...only they can't come back 2 seconds later and open on ya again because Mana like before..That is really the only difference.

Everyone seems to have a story about the sorc that got away. You know, because escaping a fight is OP.

No one ever recalls how they "locked that noob streaking sorc" down with shield charges/talons/stampede/fear until the sorc was out of stamina and then that sorc turns into a punching bag.

Talons doesn't stop Bolt Escape..neither does Stampede... Shield Charge will for 1 time.. At least till they make it behind a tree

Talons forces a sorc to dodge roll, or only have one direction of bolt escape, which is the direction that the sorc is facing (it doesn't follow where the cursor is facing)

Stampede is just an example of a gap closer, I used stampede as the example because it also applies a snare which will definitely help in locking that sorc down.

Shield charge, another gap closer but this one comes with a stun. Once you are in range to shield charge once, you will be able to continuously shield charge that sorc unless they get line of sight from you. Also keep in mind, CC immunity only lasts 4 seconds, so in 8 seconds you can completely deplete a sorcs stamina (from 2 break frees, assuming the sorc is using tri-stat food and no other stamina contributions).

With the current restriction on BE, stamina based builds with their gap closers will out-pace a sorcs ability to BE away and have plenty of stamina left to be offensive. What is surprising to me, is that something so simple is eluding you...Your ability to use a skill with a charge counters my ability to bolt escape away once you are in range. The very fact that there is more than one way to counter a skill should lead one to believe that it is balanced.

I've never seen a Sorc bother to Dodge roll a Talons....You're out of your damn mind if you think that's going to happen when they can just Bolt escape...Stampede again..Is a snare...is going to do nothing to stop a Bolt Escaping Sorc...Not in the history of the entire game has that Snare ever did anything to stop a sorc from escaping. And charging a Sorc over and over again isn't going to work either..Do you know why? Because your Stampede and Shield Charge is never going to do enough damage to get through their shields...If you actually do manage to charge him over and over again without him breaking LOS, or BE stunning you thus forcing ya to break free and thus letting the Sorc escape... One thing is going to happen..You're going to finally get him to stop..Because he's going to stop to kill you now because you're out of Stamina from wasting it charging him over and over again.

But he will be out of magicka. You are probably the loudest pro-nerf Sorc in PVP player on the forums now which is odd considering you seem to do really well in your PVP videos. I suggest you roll a Sorc so you can see the situation from the other side. My DK is almost there and I look forward to it.

A stamina DK will run out of Stamina long before a Magicka Sorc will run out of Magicka..Don't kid yourself.

LOL nothing else left to be said.
how on earth are you running quicker out of stamina if every stamina ability cost less than 60% of its magica pendant while doing 15-20% more bang for its bucks...

Because Stamina is used up by things like Blocking/Dodging/Break Free...you know those things Magicka doesn't have to deal with.

Lets sum up this silliness right here

How many of you have actually died to a Stamina Dk in a 1v1 this patch, and can you name that player or provide a video of it?

I'm not talking about you getting zerged..I'm talking about straight up a Stamina DK with a 2 hander has chased you down and pwnt you.

Xylena and Aetcherian both pop into my mind immediately as 2h DKs that will mess me up if I'm not on my game.

Xsorus

Tankqull wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

Jahosefat wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Now, he just seems like a salty DK that lost his OPness.

DKs are finally dying from ranged attacks after a year of infinite invulnerability, it is only natural to be a little frustrated

The dominance of DK 2H Stamina Wrecking Blow builds does have one upside for magicka sorcs and NB's -- less scalespam.

In 1.5, it seemed that 60% of Cyrodiil was DK's, and 90% of them made frequent use of scales. We still see more DK's than any other class (and possibly more than any two classes combined), but many of them no longer chain-cast the flaps.

the dmg we gain by that is easily compensated by the fact all our attacks are now blockable leading to less dmg dealt than ever before.

But that also leads to the stamina user running out of Stamina Quicker thus dying because he can't break free.

break free from what? the tremendous amount of unblockable cc sorcs provide? or the laughter when blocking 3 attacks of a sorc barely cost 5% stamina as range spells have a reduced stamina cost when beeing blocked wich becomes even more laughable when using a shield tied to your arm...

The Stun you set off whenever you Bolt Escape..you know the stun that lasts long enough for you to hit Bolt Escape twice thus getting out of range Stampede or whatever you have left....There is also those mines with that bloody root which stops Charges as well. Also where did you ever get that blocking ranged spells or range abilities cost less stamina then anything else? Cause I assure you....Stamina Cost is the same for everything...Blocking Crushing Shock alone and nothing else will cost you 3k+ Stamina.

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

The only argument people have for BE retaining its increased magicka cost is that a sorc can BE away. Sure sorcs can kite/run away very well, but most players also seem to look past the fact that any build that uses a charge can stick with them the entire time.

You're talking about whether or not there should be a mechanic that restricts consecutive bolt escapes.
I'm talking about the fact that restricting bolt escapes is intended by ZOS and that there are better ways to do it, (namely ones that wouldn't so harshly impact stamina builds).

The restriction on BE came during a time when the entire community was crying about sorcs being able to run away from fights and no one figured out that a charge could follow a bolt escaping sorc.

You're right in that other mechanics would be irrelevant if they just gave up whole restriction concept. But they haven't. It has only gotten more restrictive over time because the method they are using is not a great way to do it.

Only one skill in the whole game has a restrictive mechanic. Can you guess which one it is?

Wait, you think people didn't know you could charge a sorc back then? That's why no one was doing it?


Charging a Sorc going in a straight line is all fun and dandy....But the second they broke LOS by Teleporting behind say a Tree or a Rock and you couldn't Charge them because your ability actually required LOS they'd be gone...and there is nothing you could do to stop them..They can do the same thing right now...only they can't come back 2 seconds later and open on ya again because Mana like before..That is really the only difference.

Everyone seems to have a story about the sorc that got away. You know, because escaping a fight is OP.

No one ever recalls how they "locked that noob streaking sorc" down with shield charges/talons/stampede/fear until the sorc was out of stamina and then that sorc turns into a punching bag.

Talons doesn't stop Bolt Escape..neither does Stampede... Shield Charge will for 1 time.. At least till they make it behind a tree

Talons forces a sorc to dodge roll, or only have one direction of bolt escape, which is the direction that the sorc is facing (it doesn't follow where the cursor is facing)

Stampede is just an example of a gap closer, I used stampede as the example because it also applies a snare which will definitely help in locking that sorc down.

Shield charge, another gap closer but this one comes with a stun. Once you are in range to shield charge once, you will be able to continuously shield charge that sorc unless they get line of sight from you. Also keep in mind, CC immunity only lasts 4 seconds, so in 8 seconds you can completely deplete a sorcs stamina (from 2 break frees, assuming the sorc is using tri-stat food and no other stamina contributions).

With the current restriction on BE, stamina based builds with their gap closers will out-pace a sorcs ability to BE away and have plenty of stamina left to be offensive. What is surprising to me, is that something so simple is eluding you...Your ability to use a skill with a charge counters my ability to bolt escape away once you are in range. The very fact that there is more than one way to counter a skill should lead one to believe that it is balanced.

I've never seen a Sorc bother to Dodge roll a Talons....You're out of your damn mind if you think that's going to happen when they can just Bolt escape...Stampede again..Is a snare...is going to do nothing to stop a Bolt Escaping Sorc...Not in the history of the entire game has that Snare ever did anything to stop a sorc from escaping. And charging a Sorc over and over again isn't going to work either..Do you know why? Because your Stampede and Shield Charge is never going to do enough damage to get through their shields...If you actually do manage to charge him over and over again without him breaking LOS, or BE stunning you thus forcing ya to break free and thus letting the Sorc escape... One thing is going to happen..You're going to finally get him to stop..Because he's going to stop to kill you now because you're out of Stamina from wasting it charging him over and over again.

But he will be out of magicka. You are probably the loudest pro-nerf Sorc in PVP player on the forums now which is odd considering you seem to do really well in your PVP videos. I suggest you roll a Sorc so you can see the situation from the other side. My DK is almost there and I look forward to it.

A stamina DK will run out of Stamina long before a Magicka Sorc will run out of Magicka..Don't kid yourself.

LOL nothing else left to be said.
how on earth are you running quicker out of stamina if every stamina ability cost less than 60% of its magica pendant while doing 15-20% more bang for its bucks...

Because Stamina is used up by things like Blocking/Dodging/Break Free...you know those things Magicka doesn't have to deal with.

Lets sum up this silliness right here

How many of you have actually died to a Stamina Dk in a 1v1 this patch, and can you name that player or provide a video of it?

I'm not talking about you getting zerged..I'm talking about straight up a Stamina DK with a 2 hander has chased you down and pwnt you.

Xylena and Aetcherian both pop into my mind immediately as 2h DKs that will mess me up if I'm not on my game.

Xylena i've yet to see run solo, Aetcherian i've not seen in a long time.

ishilb14_ESO

And being able to knock 3 people out of block isn't OP right?

Aquanova

Tankqull wrote: »

with the meta switching over to stamina builds and the addition of a class "charge" to dks giving every class an as rapidly usable gap closer as the sorc has as an gap creator on amuch much cheaper ability cost [1/2 to 1/5 of BE cost]

1) bolt escape and its morphs need the cost nerf undone(50% cost increasement) and the porting range increased from 15m to 22m to match charge range
2) the expert mage nerf needs to be undone aswell

3) due to the change of the cc component from a soft cc to a hard cc the morph streak lost the most of its utility, i would recommend to change the cc part back again to a soft cc this time to a 3 sec root instead of the former disable as the 1 sec stun is an awefull gimmick

You mention a class charge to dks. What exactly are you referring to? Extended chain's? Dragon leap? One is an ultimate, the other is only a gap closer. Neither allows dks to disengage once they've made contact with the enemy or worse when there near death. I mean, I can't Dragon leap 3 or 4 times in a row or even without targeting another player or npc. BE can be used for both and doesn't cost ult and with the right setup it could be spammed like crazy. In 1.5 I saw sorcs use BE just to travel from keep to keep or to outposts, they didn't even bother to jump on their mount. The cost needed to be increased.