Bolt Escape

DisgracefulMind

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Hi xsorus,

It makes me sad to see you going that Route again. I notice the same pattern as in gw2. First a very humble and helpful poster whom I valued very much cause of his original play. Then the transition to aggressive behaviour and balance whine.

You have absolutely zero understanding of sorc play but instand of listening and valueing input of experienced users u prefer crying worse than any nightblade ever did before.

There is a thing called difference of perception. Do me a favor, go play a sorc for a month, make a video and reread all your posts past 1.6 patch.

I would be very surprised, if that future you wont be at least a bit embarrassed.

Best regards

You mean the pattern of pointing out Balance Flaws and watching certain players like yourself defend them? Also did you really just have the balls to ask me to listen to experienced users of an overpowered class..and then follow it up with a complaint about nightblades crying (Which they did)....When you're playing a sorc...that has countless threads on PTS crying their eyes out how about terrible they were..Hell I can probably link you 3 or 4 alone right now of your class in tears over some change and how you need more buffs.

Also did you really just challenge me to level a Sorc up and make a video? You realize the last time one of you guys did this I did just that in both GW2 (with thief) and in this game with Nightblades (Though Sypher did a far better job in my opinion) showing how NBs weren't weak.

In fact I think I will do just that..Level a nice little Sorc up..

Be sure to wear 7/7 LA too! And make your magicka optimal while leaving you with 11k stam!!

Teargrants

Spangla wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Sorc is BS in PVP atm you know it - Stop defending this crap.

Please can someone from zenimax build a character to v14 and pvp - Then you will see.

Much insightful, such descriptive. Care to be more specific about your complaints?

Not really one for explaining the blindingly obvious.

So you want to play that game? Ok.

DK/Temp/NB is BS in PVP atm you know it - Stop defending this crap.

Please can someone from zenimax build a character to v14 and pvp - Then you will see.

manny254

I have the solution you can get your changes that disregard balance, but all my other characters also get a balance change.

Nightblade gets shadow bolt. Bolt escaping gives you invisibility during and after. Anyone who is caught in shadow bolt is feared.

DK gets fire bolt. After streaking you reflect up to four projectiles. When you streak through an enemy a Valkyn Skoria Meteor Procs on every target hit.

Templar gets Radiant bolt. When you streak you leave behind a ball of pure light. This light casts radiant destruction on anyone in range. The beams arc to nearby enemies, and heal you for 40% of damage done.

I typed it on the forums so they must all be great ideas that ZoS should hotfix in right now.

Xsorus

Teargrants wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Sorc is BS in PVP atm you know it - Stop defending this crap.

Please can someone from zenimax build a character to v14 and pvp - Then you will see.

Much insightful, such descriptive. Care to be more specific about your complaints?

Not really one for explaining the blindingly obvious.

So you want to play that game? Ok.

DK/Temp/NB is BS in PVP atm you know it - Stop defending this crap.

Please can someone from zenimax build a character to v14 and pvp - Then you will see.

There are some BS features on all 3 of those classes right now.

Only we have the balls not to defend it.

Unlike a certain class that just wants more.

AltusVenifus

How this skill is still in the game is absolutely pathetic.

AbraXuSeXile

Seriously, This skill should of been deleted a long long time ago or nerfed into oblivion.

For too long people have cried that this class is under powered, When infact its been very strong thoughout.

Derra

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Well every DK complaining about sorcs is just bad. All you need to counter 100% of the spells a sorc cann throw at you is reflect + purge.

I´m excited to see how pvp unfolds once nirnhoned is fixed (together with the light armor passive that does nothing but look good on the skill sheet atm). I expect some people playing heavy+nirn builds to be in for a rude awakening along with the stam users that think they should get significantly reduced dmg against casters.

yea...those silly heavy armor tank users being silly thinking they should have reduced damage against caster like they do physical users..they're so silly.

Did you even read what i wrote?
Heavy armor + nirnhoned tanks won´t be doing dmg anyone once it is fixed - as it should be.
Med armor users will still get ravaged by casters (even with nirn fix) if they don´t pay attention - as it should be.

I read what you wrote, it didn't make any sense...

When it does not make any sense to you why would you reply? Who's more foolish? The fool, or the one who follows him...

So we've established that you're a fool....and that you're nonsense in your original post is apparent to even yourself.

The only thing we´ve established is that you did not understand what i wanted to express in my original post and instead of asking what i meant you´re making wild assumptions... Make of it what you like.
Also sorry that english is not my native language.

AltusVenifus

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Kuro1n wrote: »

I fought a sorc today, stacked shields and bolting around. There was no stopping him let me tell you. People saying sorcs are weak in 1.6 have no idea what they are talking about.

I'm loving my sorc in 1.6, but I agree that bolt escape should have it's 50% magicka increase removed. It is the only skill in the game with such a harsh restriction, not to mention it costs even more with the recent storm calling passive "expert mage" change.

not true... siphoning strikes also has a character debuff or reduced damage 17%...

Erock25

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

5. I look forward to it, So far no Sorcs have posted a video of them dying to a Stamina DK..even though i see countless Sorcs in this thread claiming they die all the time..Hell you'd even think one of them would at least try and throw a fight and post a video.

Don't worry xso, I'm working on it. Have a few instances already but my 6 week old is making it difficult to find time to get any good footage. Definitely got some nice cases of myself dying so far and it isn't surprising that they usually involve Crit Charge + a CC (dragon leap is a killer) + Wrecking Blow or Executioner coming from DKs. I've been alt + f10-ing all of my deaths and every damn one is because I'm out of stamina. Usually it is a hard CC followed by an immediate Talons and I don't have the stamina to break both or by the time I break the hard CC and try to bolt away it is all over. I can't use Immovable anymore so CC's are tough.

EnOeZ

Tankqull wrote: »

with the meta switching over to stamina builds and the addition of a class "charge" to dks giving every class an as rapidly usable gap closer as the sorc has as an gap creator on amuch much cheaper ability cost [1/2 to 1/5 of BE cost]

1) bolt escape and its morphs need the cost nerf undone(50% cost increasement) and the porting range increased from 15m to 22m to match charge range
2) the expert mage nerf needs to be undone aswell

3) due to the change of the cc component from a soft cc to a hard cc the morph streak lost the most of its utility, i would recommend to change the cc part back again to a soft cc this time to a 3 sec root instead of the former disable as the 1 sec stun is an awefull gimmick

mmm... certainly not.

I do understand however that, as everyone else, you want your character to be more powerful and have abilities with no counter and no downsides. In the current state of bolt escape if i do run after a mage and get to him despite him bolt-escaping (major expedition + Sprint with stamina pots spam) I just get to him with no stamina left (despite pots) to fight and die miserably out of resources.

I do have no resources however by ZOS design (what I think is bad design) as an heavy armor user.

So no you can already escape well enough : bolt, dodge, use line of sight, do not bolt in straight line and change direction, etc... This is what I call skill.

RinaldoGandolphi

Complaining about Bolt Escape? Sorc being OP? really?

The grass is always greener on the other side, the Sorc class has more downsides then probably any other class.

However i'll get to the meat and potatoes of the argument:

"A good Sorc will stay on the fringe of combat and not put himself in a position to be focused on, and the moment he begins to be focused on a good Sorc will BOL out of there and seek cover or a tactical reposition to re-frame the fight on better terms"

Folks get mad about this because they should always just be able to kill us no matter what. How dare us squishy Sorc's move to prevent people from focusing us down.

The Sorc gives up damage, health, and stamina to do this...having to invest all in magic, and having to cast damage shields that cost magic,magic that could be used to deal damage, a Sorc with shields down is a dead sorc. Sorc casters are always 1 hard CC away from being dead, yet were OP......

It must be nice to be able to Crit 17-19k from stealth at a ridiclious range with a bow.
It must be nice to be able to reflect every projectile in the game.
It must be nice to have a damage shield that blows up and does damage.
It must be nice to have an uninterruptible mega sword attack that does way more damage then i could ever do.
It must be nice to have an unblockable hard CC

See what im getting at here, all the classes have something that is just as "so called OP" as a Sorc does. Of course none of these things are OP, they are just good when used correctly, and BE is no different.

I think every class in pvp is really competitive right now, can we just stop with everyone wanting to swing the nerf bat all the time.

Lava_Croft

I see there's still people mixing up the skills related to Weapons and the skills related to Classes.

RinaldoGandolphi

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I see there's still people mixing up the skills related to Weapons and the skills related to Classes.

I think they both have merit, As some weapons synergizie with certain classes better then others. The point is every skill in this game can be really good in the hands of one who knows how and when to use it.

Snit

As a sorc, I think BE's regen debuff should remain. Currently, it's part of the larger choice sorcs (like any class) must make when choosing between burst and sustain:

- If you stack Spell Damage, your burst is terrific. But your regen is awful, and your absorb shields suffer
- If you stack Max Magicka, your burst is ok, your regen is still awful, but your absorb shields are beefy
- If you stack Regen, your burst is bad, your shields are 'meh,' but your mobility is superb

Most builds will be a mix of those elements (and you can tweak a bit on the fly by changing from food to drink, or vice versa). But the basic choice remains -- you can't optimize for everything. Removing the BE debuff would change that to a large extent. It should probably stay.

Joy_Division

What is this, May? Are people still whining about Bolt Escape being too powerful? In May, when it ignored the AOE cap, broke all the rules about generating ultimate, still worked when you had a scroll, and people actually thought the sorc was the best class, the nerf was understandable, if annoying.

All of the reasons are no longer valid, the game has changed, and it is time to re-examine the magicka costs associated with Bolt Escape.

In the end, the biggest complain out there against the sorcerer is still its ability to escape rather than win.

@ xsorusb - I don't think it is a coincidence that many posters are pointing out a similar pattern in your recent post history. Those posters are getting "agrees" and your responses are not. It is patently obvious from your posts that you have nil experience playing as a sorcerer is a competitive PvP environment and your claim to identify a stamina DK build who can defeat a sorcerer is so laughable it reveals just how biased you are. If you need help regarding a stamina DK...words cannot describe how ridiculous such a position is.

RinaldoGandolphi

Joy_Division wrote: »

What is this, May? Are people still whining about Bolt Escape being too powerful? In May, when it ignored the AOE cap, broke all the rules about generating ultimate, still worked when you had a scroll, and people actually thought the sorc was the best class, the nerf was understandable, if annoying.

All of the reasons are no longer valid, the game has changed, and it is time to re-examine the magicka costs associated with Bolt Escape.

In the end, the biggest complain out there against the sorcerer is still its ability to escape rather than win.

@ xsorusb - I don't think it is a coincidence that many posters are pointing out a similar pattern in your recent post history. Those posters are getting "agrees" and your responses are not. It is patently obvious from your posts that you have nil experience playing as a sorcerer is a competitive PvP environment and your claim to identify a stamina DK build who can defeat a sorcerer is so laughable it reveals just how biased you are. If you need help regarding a stamina DK...words cannot describe how ridiculous such a position is.

Quoted for truth.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Spangla wrote: »

Sorc is BS in PVP atm you know it - Stop defending this crap.

Please can someone from zenimax build a character to v14 and pvp - Then you will see.

All I am seeing is a lot of hate about sorcerers in PvP but no substantial reasons why. Bolt Escape could cost 95% of your magicka and stun the caster for 5 minutes after using it and people would still cry foul. As others have pointed out Nirnhoned is not sorcerer specific so please offer some concrete reasons why sorcerers are OP right now other than Nirnhoned and BE.

eventide03b14a_ESO

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I see there's still people mixing up the skills related to Weapons and the skills related to Classes.

Nobody is doing that here. @woodsro made a perfectly valid point that a sorcerer cannot be both a stamina build and also utilize Bolt Escape in the manner that people complain about, thus they could not benefit from using a two handed weapon. There isn't any contradiction if you pay attention to what they said.

cozmon3c_ESO

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I see there's still people mixing up the skills related to Weapons and the skills related to Classes.

Nobody is doing that here. @woodsro made a perfectly valid point that a sorcerer cannot be both a stamina build and also utilize Bolt Escape in the manner that people complain about, thus they could not benefit from using a two handed weapon. There isn't any contradiction if you pay attention to what they said.

i dont know about this man, i ran into a hybrid stam/magicka sorc the other day that gave me run for my money almost killing me and then bolting away almost not able to keep up.

Rojnaar

[/quote]
well, everything you could reach then with an upgraded BE can now be reached by fiery grip and ambush.

[/quote]

Fiery grip and ambush need to have a target, BE does not.

coolermh

I think the big issue is that 1 sorc playing smart can harass an entire group without having to worry about being killed. Any other class runs into a large group of players they will most likely die if they are solo. The reason people are pissed is because its an annoying way to pvp and it frustrates people that sorc are so incredibly difficult to kill.

Ezareth

coolermh wrote: »

I think the big issue is that 1 sorc playing smart can harass an entire group without having to worry about being killed. Any other class runs into a large group of players they will most likely die if they are solo. The reason people are pissed is because its an annoying way to pvp and it frustrates people that sorc are so incredibly difficult to kill.

A harassing sorc is difficult to kill but easy to ignore (if keep an eye on). By ignoring a sorc you force him to play riskier and risker in order to try and draw attention away from a group. Our ranged damage is all very easy to counter or outheal and if you're group is coordinated you can send a couple of Bow night blades in stealth behind the sorc's position to line up a double snipe that will instagib him. This happens to me against good groups all the time in 1.6 and there isn't much I can do about it.

Now if you try the old charge him and try to run him down gambit you'll usually fail because you're playing to the sorcs strength....mobility. Play to his weaknesses(low damage mitigation against quick burst damage) instead and you'll be more successful.

eventide03b14a_ESO

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I see there's still people mixing up the skills related to Weapons and the skills related to Classes.

Nobody is doing that here. @woodsro made a perfectly valid point that a sorcerer cannot be both a stamina build and also utilize Bolt Escape in the manner that people complain about, thus they could not benefit from using a two handed weapon. There isn't any contradiction if you pay attention to what they said.

i dont know about this man, i ran into a hybrid stam/magicka sorc the other day that gave me run for my money almost killing me and then bolting away almost not able to keep up.

I would say that he was just a skilled a player and very good at resource management. I would hardly call this typical though. Sorcerers die all the time in PvP I seriously get the feeling that it's just the few tricky ones that stick in people's memory.

cozmon3c_ESO

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I see there's still people mixing up the skills related to Weapons and the skills related to Classes.

Nobody is doing that here. @woodsro made a perfectly valid point that a sorcerer cannot be both a stamina build and also utilize Bolt Escape in the manner that people complain about, thus they could not benefit from using a two handed weapon. There isn't any contradiction if you pay attention to what they said.

i dont know about this man, i ran into a hybrid stam/magicka sorc the other day that gave me run for my money almost killing me and then bolting away almost not able to keep up.

I would say that he was just a skilled a player and very good at resource management. I would hardly call this typical though. Sorcerers die all the time in PvP I seriously get the feeling that it's just the few tricky ones that stick in people's memory.

true, i have only seen a couple of these two hand sorc builds since 1.6 and i have to say he was definitely the exception to the others. too bad i cant remember his name.

as for the trolling sorc outside your group, i found this counter to work well and i hate to put it out there because it gets me killed. ok so your chasing a sorc, you cant keep up and hes constantly trolling you, just get him to bolt off then stealth. wait for him to come back, because he always will and burst him with a sneak attack. please dont use this on me, i rage when i die.

eventide03b14a_ESO

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I see there's still people mixing up the skills related to Weapons and the skills related to Classes.

Nobody is doing that here. @woodsro made a perfectly valid point that a sorcerer cannot be both a stamina build and also utilize Bolt Escape in the manner that people complain about, thus they could not benefit from using a two handed weapon. There isn't any contradiction if you pay attention to what they said.

i dont know about this man, i ran into a hybrid stam/magicka sorc the other day that gave me run for my money almost killing me and then bolting away almost not able to keep up.

I would say that he was just a skilled a player and very good at resource management. I would hardly call this typical though. Sorcerers die all the time in PvP I seriously get the feeling that it's just the few tricky ones that stick in people's memory.

true, i have only seen a couple of these two hand sorc builds since 1.6 and i have to say he was definitely the exception to the others. too bad i cant remember his name.

as for the trolling sorc outside your group, i found this counter to work well and i hate to put it out there because it gets me killed. ok so your chasing a sorc, you cant keep up and hes constantly trolling you, just get him to bolt off then stealth. wait for him to come back, because he always will and burst him with a sneak attack. please dont use this on me, i rage when i die.

Exactly. Sorcerers are not OP in PvP by any means, the good ones just make you fight them on their own terms.

RinaldoGandolphi

Yup, leper got me last night outside glade lumbermill, , good play by him and pure stupidity on my part.

I I help him fix his crossfire, he kills me, hows that for gratitude! @cozmon3c_ESO just messing bro, its all in good fun! That was one hell of a burst rotation though. Hats off to you.

Aquanova

Bolt escape is probably the most annoying ability in the game to any other class trying to finish off a sorc, but I can understand why they have that skill. What I also understand but can't believe is that sorcs still want more. More dps, more heals, more utility, WTF? There is no other skill in the game that allows one to escape death when confronted by superior numbers like BE. It's "fight till I'm in trouble, then bolt escape, bolt escape, bolt escape, I'm out of trouble, let regen kick in then repeat". The worst part is you guy's cry that your dps is low compared to other classes. Yeah, tell that to the sorc who nailed me with an 8000+ dmg crystal fragment. With such a powerful ability like bolt escape, why would you need higher dps? In PvP I only ever see are sorcs running around soloing groups of 3 or more and getting away with it, all thanks in large part to bolt escape. I don't see DKS or temps do that.

Glurin

Aquanova wrote: »

The worst part is you guy's cry that your dps is low compared to other classes. Yeah, tell that to the sorc who nailed me with an 8000+ dmg crystal fragment. With such a powerful ability like bolt escape, why would you need higher dps?

PvE. Running away from a dungeon boss isn't nearly as useful as you might think.

Not that running away from your enemy does all that much damage in PvP either.

In PvP I only ever see are sorcs running around soloing groups of 3 or more and getting away with it, all thanks in large part to bolt escape. I don't see DKS or temps do that.

I do.

You sure the whole nirnhoned issue hasn't colored your opinion on the matter? (It's an honest question. I don't have experience with it myself, but as I understand it the nirnhoned bug would pretty much have been the proverbial monkey wrench in the gears when trying to analyze class v.s. class PvP damage.)

Spangla

Teargrants wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Spangla wrote: »

Sorc is BS in PVP atm you know it - Stop defending this crap.

Please can someone from zenimax build a character to v14 and pvp - Then you will see.

Much insightful, such descriptive. Care to be more specific about your complaints?

Not really one for explaining the blindingly obvious.

So you want to play that game? Ok.

DK/Temp/NB is BS in PVP atm you know it - Stop defending this crap.

Please can someone from zenimax build a character to v14 and pvp - Then you will see.

Except none of those have a reliable escape.

I'm not going to try and out whine a sorc on the forums - it doesnt work, hence why sorcs were buffed when they didnt need it. You guys are good.

Lava_Croft

Play PvP and see the 1.6 Sorcerer for yourself. Hard to deny they got a huge buff overall.