Bolt Escape

Septimus_Magna

Ezareth wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Pvp can be very easy if you know what you're doing as sorcerer. Atm I have no problem with any class 1vs1. The trick is to use BE in combination with elusive mist form, this allows you to blink away without burning all magicka instantly because there is more than 4s between BE. You could even do it with Streak and Boundless Storm if you are not a vamp.

You should try 1v1ing good players then. The kind of players who still target and root you while you're in mist form.

Its hard for players to target or root me if I blink away out of their line of sight. You could also take a potion to become CC immune for 15 seconds to avoid roots in open field. But the most important thing is line of sight because it prevents them from charging in time after time.

The combination of BE and mist form/boundless storm allows for fast retreat so I find it very useful in situations where Im outnumbered.

Soarin'

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

The meta has had a chance to evolve and there are plenty of counters for bolt escape now. The "spam punishment" is a very inconsistent design choice and doesn't fit the spirit of an elderscrolls game. Although many class skills are borderline OP if spammed, bolt escape is the only ability in game that punishes you for spamming it. In a game ostensibly designed with no cooldowns, this is a step in the wrong direction

So why was bolt given a magicka penalty and other "OP" spamable abilities were not? The best answer I could find for this is below:

Derra wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

I still don't get why every class has abilities that are borderline OP when spammed but sorcs are the only class in the game with an ability that punishes you for spamming it.

Spamming dragon blood/talons/flappy wings is just as powerful as spamming streak ever was. Same thing with blazing shield or sap essence.

Because its ok if the cookie looks tasty but is filled with nails rather then have the cookie running away from you.
Thats basically it. You won´t eat the cookie either way but the feeling is different. Sorcs getting away ppl feel cheated out of their "earned" victory over a class with no incombat heal. They lack the understanding that teleporting away is basically the same as a dk popping gdb and standard of might to go full health and resources again (and them ****ing them).

That's the real reason. People feel that they deserve the kill if they get a sorc to low health. If the sorc escapes, it bothers them infinitely more than a templar or DK coming back from the dead and stomping them - even though its the exact same thing!!!

But having high mobility in exchange for low survivability is part of the sorc toolkit. Bolt is well past due for an unnerf. I have a detailed write-up as to why it should be un-nerfed HERE. It is the most comprehensive argument on why BE should be unnerfed. Read it and click agree if you like it. I will edit any other arguments you would like to add.

Sorry, when you quote your own post a point of reference in a debate as the benchmark by which an agenda is being driven I don't see how you are going to win over general opinion. It's egotistical, self centred and bordering on narcissism.

I read the material, there's no discussion of comparative mobility skills outside of Bolt Escape, no talk of viable counters etc. As far as I understand from what is being said is that you feel entitled to the ability to control engagements because you are built as a glass cannon.

NOPE

Snit

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

The combination of BE and mist form/boundless storm allows for fast retreat so I find it very useful in situations where Im outnumbered.

I agree. Bolt Escape by itself rarely works to escape an engagement -- most gap closers have equal or longer range. However, Bolt Escape + another movement skill (I prefer Retreating Maneuver) make a great combination. Between the two, I can get away about 2/3 of the time, assuming I didn't let myself get surrounded.

But Bolt Escape by itself? I think all that accomplishes is maxing out that Critical Rush coming at you

Teargrants

Some people don't seem to understand how Sorc plays in 1.6.

Soarin' wrote: »

I have seen sorcerers kitting large groups by using 8-15 bolt escapes cast simultaneously. I will record this next time I am skirmishing.

And I've had a person spam crit rush on me all the way from glade lumber back to aleswell mine. The way 1.6 works, light and medium armor users can basically have infinite magicka or stamina. There are sacrifices required to do this, I only have 14k health in Cyrodiil and 8k stam. I can CC break once, if I get knocked down again without full shields up I get to watch myself die. The ones that don't do this can't kite zergs around effectively as you complain about.

Soarin' wrote: »

It is till the quickest mobility skill in the game whilst a user is in combat, it ignores snares (which I think is utterly imbalanced) and allows the user to disengage fights whenever they feel that they may lose. I do not see how any person can justify having the ability to remove themselves from danger after engaging in combat.

Gap closers ignore snares as well, and if you want to talk about roots, ambush ignores those too. In regards to disengaging from fights, I direct you to the preceding sentence: gap closers prevent sorcs from disengaging. Use them. Additionally, light armor + dodge/block/cc break nerfs means that magicka sorcs die fast without kiting. If I wait until I "feel I might lose" to disengage, it means I'm already dead.

Soarin' wrote: »

Players need to be mindful of the odds when they engage in combat, you are essentially gambling with your characters life and need to in some cases chose not to initiate combat because you might die. When you commit to a fight you should have to see that wager through, if you misjudged the situation and are losing as a result you should die from that mistake.

So whereas DKs and temps can tank/sustain through multiple enemies, sorcs and non tank NB's should what, just die? Because that's what happens if you remove bolt escape and cloak as escape tools from those classes. What you state is exactly how I view combat playing on my sorc. When I go into a fight I'm committing to having people gap close me for the next few minutes. If I misjudge and there's archers in stealth, I die in about 5 sec.

Soarin' wrote: »

If you want to control combat range you should be taking a snare to slow your opponents and then be buffing your own speed. To do this should require a considerable investment of slots in one of your skill bars (2-3 of your skills) because it is such a powerful deciding factor in fights.

Dude that was a joke, right? Snares and speed buffs to control combat range? You are aware gap closers exist? Bolt escape takes 2 slots on my bar + my entire gear build to sustain it.

Soarin' wrote: »

If anything I think that bolt escape is too much of a safety net to players unwilling to take risks to gain rewards. I have been playing PVP in open world MMO's since 2006 and find TESO to still be one of the more forging pvp experiences. TESO 1.6 was an update I was waiting for since 2 months after release. It has been a great improvement to an otherwise biased character build system.

Bolt escape is only a safety net against people that don't use any of the various counters. Gap closers are available to all in their class line as well as two hander and sword/shield. DKs can even chain pull themselves after sorcs now. What exactly is your alternative for how magicka sorcs are supposed to play?

Teargrants

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Pvp can be very easy if you know what you're doing as sorcerer. Atm I have no problem with any class 1vs1. The trick is to use BE in combination with elusive mist form, this allows you to blink away without burning all magicka instantly because there is more than 4s between BE. You could even do it with Streak and Boundless Storm if you are not a vamp.

You should try 1v1ing good players then. The kind of players who still target and root you while you're in mist form.

Its hard for players to target or root me if I blink away out of their line of sight. You could also take a potion to become CC immune for 15 seconds to avoid roots in open field. But the most important thing is line of sight because it prevents them from charging in time after time.

The combination of BE and mist form/boundless storm allows for fast retreat so I find it very useful in situations where Im outnumbered.

CC immunity only works against hard CC, not roots and snares.

Tankqull

oh and another nice effect harming bolt escape, the short timeframe between activation and teleportation is used by the program as casting time enabling the sorc to be cced by rupts and lightnig staff procs...

Soarin'

Teargrants wrote: »

Some people don't seem to understand how Sorc plays in 1.6.

Soarin' wrote: »

I have seen sorcerers kitting large groups by using 8-15 bolt escapes cast simultaneously. I will record this next time I am skirmishing.

And I've had a person spam crit rush on me all the way from glade lumber back to aleswell mine. The way 1.6 works, light and medium armor users can basically have infinite magicka or stamina. There are sacrifices required to do this, I only have 14k health in Cyrodiil and 8k stam. I can CC break once, if I get knocked down again without full shields up I get to watch myself die. The ones that don't do this can't kite zergs around effectively as you complain about.

Soarin' wrote: »

It is till the quickest mobility skill in the game whilst a user is in combat, it ignores snares (which I think is utterly imbalanced) and allows the user to disengage fights whenever they feel that they may lose. I do not see how any person can justify having the ability to remove themselves from danger after engaging in combat.

Gap closers ignore snares as well, and if you want to talk about roots, ambush ignores those too. In regards to disengaging from fights, I direct you to the preceding sentence: gap closers prevent sorcs from disengaging. Use them. Additionally, light armor + dodge/block/cc break nerfs means that magicka sorcs die fast without kiting. If I wait until I "feel I might lose" to disengage, it means I'm already dead.

Soarin' wrote: »

Players need to be mindful of the odds when they engage in combat, you are essentially gambling with your characters life and need to in some cases chose not to initiate combat because you might die. When you commit to a fight you should have to see that wager through, if you misjudged the situation and are losing as a result you should die from that mistake.

So whereas DKs and temps can tank/sustain through multiple enemies, sorcs and non tank NB's should what, just die? Because that's what happens if you remove bolt escape and cloak as escape tools from those classes. What you state is exactly how I view combat playing on my sorc. When I go into a fight I'm committing to having people gap close me for the next few minutes. If I misjudge and there's archers in stealth, I die in about 5 sec.

Soarin' wrote: »

If you want to control combat range you should be taking a snare to slow your opponents and then be buffing your own speed. To do this should require a considerable investment of slots in one of your skill bars (2-3 of your skills) because it is such a powerful deciding factor in fights.

Dude that was a joke, right? Snares and speed buffs to control combat range? You are aware gap closers exist? Bolt escape takes 2 slots on my bar + my entire gear build to sustain it.

Soarin' wrote: »

If anything I think that bolt escape is too much of a safety net to players unwilling to take risks to gain rewards. I have been playing PVP in open world MMO's since 2006 and find TESO to still be one of the more forging pvp experiences. TESO 1.6 was an update I was waiting for since 2 months after release. It has been a great improvement to an otherwise biased character build system.

Bolt escape is only a safety net against people that don't use any of the various counters. Gap closers are available to all in their class line as well as two hander and sword/shield. DKs can even chain pull themselves after sorcs now. What exactly is your alternative for how magicka sorcs are supposed to play?

I have used both critical charge and ambush in an attempt to keep up with bolt escape sorcs, they are not reliable in that they require LOS, often I find that bumps in the terrain will prevent the skill activation. Also worth mentioning the server delay on skill activation has on many occasions resulted in an animation and audio triggers associated with skill activation but my character has remained in the same spot without the skill effect taking place.

I normally run in a group or 3-8 people, many of whom are among the top 40 on Thornblade, when engaged by a good sorc unless we stun and kill him in the opening of a fight we know there is little to no chance of holding him down to apply DPS. Attempting to DoT the target is also pointless with most decent skirmish sorcs slotting condition removal. We do not chase, 60% of the time you will end up running after him into a trap/zerg (AD biggest culprits here), only idiots will charge blindly in combat areas after a player for more that 50-75 meters.

If you are having problems with low stamina whilst using an 8k pool you are clearly not using tri-boost food which should put you over 10k, a 10k pool purely for CC breaks and dodge rolling. If you are running out of stamina in combat you aren't weaving in light attacks between your skills which is essential for sustaining resources.

Also worth noting that on your 14k health buffer with light armour you are 1-shot target and should look at redistributing your attributes, you will never survive an engagement where the opponent is able to use at least 2 skills on you or 1 skill such as snipe on a crit. The mistake of using shields as your HP primary buffer in order to tank is no doubt also a large contributor to your lack of magika resource. Shields if anything require a combination of HP buffer and HP regen in order to yield best results, else any bleed through is going to kill you outright.

DisgracefulMind

Soarin' wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Some people don't seem to understand how Sorc plays in 1.6.

Soarin' wrote: »

I have seen sorcerers kitting large groups by using 8-15 bolt escapes cast simultaneously. I will record this next time I am skirmishing.

And I've had a person spam crit rush on me all the way from glade lumber back to aleswell mine. The way 1.6 works, light and medium armor users can basically have infinite magicka or stamina. There are sacrifices required to do this, I only have 14k health in Cyrodiil and 8k stam. I can CC break once, if I get knocked down again without full shields up I get to watch myself die. The ones that don't do this can't kite zergs around effectively as you complain about.

Soarin' wrote: »

It is till the quickest mobility skill in the game whilst a user is in combat, it ignores snares (which I think is utterly imbalanced) and allows the user to disengage fights whenever they feel that they may lose. I do not see how any person can justify having the ability to remove themselves from danger after engaging in combat.

Gap closers ignore snares as well, and if you want to talk about roots, ambush ignores those too. In regards to disengaging from fights, I direct you to the preceding sentence: gap closers prevent sorcs from disengaging. Use them. Additionally, light armor + dodge/block/cc break nerfs means that magicka sorcs die fast without kiting. If I wait until I "feel I might lose" to disengage, it means I'm already dead.

Soarin' wrote: »

Players need to be mindful of the odds when they engage in combat, you are essentially gambling with your characters life and need to in some cases chose not to initiate combat because you might die. When you commit to a fight you should have to see that wager through, if you misjudged the situation and are losing as a result you should die from that mistake.

So whereas DKs and temps can tank/sustain through multiple enemies, sorcs and non tank NB's should what, just die? Because that's what happens if you remove bolt escape and cloak as escape tools from those classes. What you state is exactly how I view combat playing on my sorc. When I go into a fight I'm committing to having people gap close me for the next few minutes. If I misjudge and there's archers in stealth, I die in about 5 sec.

Soarin' wrote: »

If you want to control combat range you should be taking a snare to slow your opponents and then be buffing your own speed. To do this should require a considerable investment of slots in one of your skill bars (2-3 of your skills) because it is such a powerful deciding factor in fights.

Dude that was a joke, right? Snares and speed buffs to control combat range? You are aware gap closers exist? Bolt escape takes 2 slots on my bar + my entire gear build to sustain it.

Soarin' wrote: »

If anything I think that bolt escape is too much of a safety net to players unwilling to take risks to gain rewards. I have been playing PVP in open world MMO's since 2006 and find TESO to still be one of the more forging pvp experiences. TESO 1.6 was an update I was waiting for since 2 months after release. It has been a great improvement to an otherwise biased character build system.

Bolt escape is only a safety net against people that don't use any of the various counters. Gap closers are available to all in their class line as well as two hander and sword/shield. DKs can even chain pull themselves after sorcs now. What exactly is your alternative for how magicka sorcs are supposed to play?

I have used both critical charge and ambush in an attempt to keep up with bolt escape sorcs, they are not reliable in that they require LOS, often I find that bumps in the terrain will prevent the skill activation. Also worth mentioning the server delay on skill activation has on many occasions resulted in an animation and audio triggers associated with skill activation but my character has remained in the same spot without the skill effect taking place.

I normally run in a group or 3-8 people, many of whom are among the top 40 on Thornblade, when engaged by a good sorc unless we stun and kill him in the opening of a fight we know there is little to no chance of holding him down to apply DPS. Attempting to DoT the target is also pointless with most decent skirmish sorcs slotting condition removal. We do not chase, 60% of the time you will end up running after him into a trap/zerg (AD biggest culprits here), only idiots will charge blindly in combat areas after a player for more that 50-75 meters.

If you are having problems with low stamina whilst using an 8k pool you are clearly not using tri-boost food which should put you over 10k, a 10k pool purely for CC breaks and dodge rolling. If you are running out of stamina in combat you aren't weaving in light attacks between your skills which is essential for sustaining resources.

Also worth noting that on your 14k health buffer with light armour you are 1-shot target and should look at redistributing your attributes, you will never survive an engagement where the opponent is able to use at least 2 skills on you or 1 skill such as snipe on a crit. The mistake of using shields as your HP primary buffer in order to tank is no doubt also a large contributor to your lack of magika resource. Shields if anything require a combination of HP buffer and HP regen in order to yield best results, else any bleed through is going to kill you outright.

I don't really see what it is here you're complaining about. It's even more important in 1.6 for a Sorc to be able to find means to escape/reposition themselves/get out of a large encounter to safety.

All 2-hander users are doing now is crit rush->uppercut to chase sorcs down. Just last night alone I had 10+ players do this to me. Gap closers are incredibly effective if you feel the need to chase a sorc down.

All I see here is QQ about Bolt Escape. It's apart of the caster playstyle to use this ability...especially in all light, we need a way to reduce our damage and keep our opponents down.

And I'm sorry, but if I'm on my Sorc I'm not going to just lie down and take a beating just because you think it's dishonorable that I Bolt away from numbers I can't handle. If I'm on my DK, tanking damage is no problem, but on my Sorc? I can take damage, but I'm not about to be gangbanged by large groups. I would rather lead you all astray and allow you to fall into my web.

Again, it's a playstyle.

Pancake-Tragedy

Soarin' wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Some people don't seem to understand how Sorc plays in 1.6.

Soarin' wrote: »

I have seen sorcerers kitting large groups by using 8-15 bolt escapes cast simultaneously. I will record this next time I am skirmishing.

And I've had a person spam crit rush on me all the way from glade lumber back to aleswell mine. The way 1.6 works, light and medium armor users can basically have infinite magicka or stamina. There are sacrifices required to do this, I only have 14k health in Cyrodiil and 8k stam. I can CC break once, if I get knocked down again without full shields up I get to watch myself die. The ones that don't do this can't kite zergs around effectively as you complain about.

Soarin' wrote: »

It is till the quickest mobility skill in the game whilst a user is in combat, it ignores snares (which I think is utterly imbalanced) and allows the user to disengage fights whenever they feel that they may lose. I do not see how any person can justify having the ability to remove themselves from danger after engaging in combat.

Gap closers ignore snares as well, and if you want to talk about roots, ambush ignores those too. In regards to disengaging from fights, I direct you to the preceding sentence: gap closers prevent sorcs from disengaging. Use them. Additionally, light armor + dodge/block/cc break nerfs means that magicka sorcs die fast without kiting. If I wait until I "feel I might lose" to disengage, it means I'm already dead.

Soarin' wrote: »

Players need to be mindful of the odds when they engage in combat, you are essentially gambling with your characters life and need to in some cases chose not to initiate combat because you might die. When you commit to a fight you should have to see that wager through, if you misjudged the situation and are losing as a result you should die from that mistake.

So whereas DKs and temps can tank/sustain through multiple enemies, sorcs and non tank NB's should what, just die? Because that's what happens if you remove bolt escape and cloak as escape tools from those classes. What you state is exactly how I view combat playing on my sorc. When I go into a fight I'm committing to having people gap close me for the next few minutes. If I misjudge and there's archers in stealth, I die in about 5 sec.

Soarin' wrote: »

If you want to control combat range you should be taking a snare to slow your opponents and then be buffing your own speed. To do this should require a considerable investment of slots in one of your skill bars (2-3 of your skills) because it is such a powerful deciding factor in fights.

Dude that was a joke, right? Snares and speed buffs to control combat range? You are aware gap closers exist? Bolt escape takes 2 slots on my bar + my entire gear build to sustain it.

Soarin' wrote: »

If anything I think that bolt escape is too much of a safety net to players unwilling to take risks to gain rewards. I have been playing PVP in open world MMO's since 2006 and find TESO to still be one of the more forging pvp experiences. TESO 1.6 was an update I was waiting for since 2 months after release. It has been a great improvement to an otherwise biased character build system.

Bolt escape is only a safety net against people that don't use any of the various counters. Gap closers are available to all in their class line as well as two hander and sword/shield. DKs can even chain pull themselves after sorcs now. What exactly is your alternative for how magicka sorcs are supposed to play?

I have used both critical charge and ambush in an attempt to keep up with bolt escape sorcs, they are not reliable in that they require LOS, often I find that bumps in the terrain will prevent the skill activation. Also worth mentioning the server delay on skill activation has on many occasions resulted in an animation and audio triggers associated with skill activation but my character has remained in the same spot without the skill effect taking place.

I normally run in a group or 3-8 people, many of whom are among the top 40 on Thornblade, when engaged by a good sorc unless we stun and kill him in the opening of a fight we know there is little to no chance of holding him down to apply DPS. Attempting to DoT the target is also pointless with most decent skirmish sorcs slotting condition removal. We do not chase, 60% of the time you will end up running after him into a trap/zerg (AD biggest culprits here), only idiots will charge blindly in combat areas after a player for more that 50-75 meters.

If you are having problems with low stamina whilst using an 8k pool you are clearly not using tri-boost food which should put you over 10k, a 10k pool purely for CC breaks and dodge rolling. If you are running out of stamina in combat you aren't weaving in light attacks between your skills which is essential for sustaining resources.

Also worth noting that on your 14k health buffer with light armour you are 1-shot target and should look at redistributing your attributes, you will never survive an engagement where the opponent is able to use at least 2 skills on you or 1 skill such as snipe on a crit. The mistake of using shields as your HP primary buffer in order to tank is no doubt also a large contributor to your lack of magika resource. Shields if anything require a combination of HP buffer and HP regen in order to yield best results, else any bleed through is going to kill you outright.

Literally everything listed in this post explains how little you know about sorcs.

1. I agree, ambush is not a good gap closer against BE because of the cast time/pathing issues but crit charge and shield charge work just fine. As long as you were in range to activate the skill, you will follow the sorc even if he bolts out of the initial range requirement.

2. If you are running in a group and you can't lock down a single sorc, then I'm not sure anyone on this forum can help you. Two players that know what they are doing can render a sorc trying to BE away useless. Unless the sorc sat 30+ meters out, in which case he was playing very conservatively and isn't posing much of a threat to anyone. Throw a couple of snipes his way and I bet he will f*** off really quick.

3. I don't know of any sorc that slots purge in their setups unless they are doing so to assist Templars in cleansing, which is usually done in a group format, not the solo roaming sorc that most people complain about.

4. With food a sorc has 11.3k stamina without any other stat contributions. That allows a sorc to get 2 hard CC breaks (3 if you pop a tripot), or 3 dodge rolls, and that's assuming the sorc didn't block any attacks. Also, Light attack weaving (with a staff) does nothing to sustain stamina. In fact, light attack weaving in general (except for nightblades with siphoning attacks) does nothing to sustain resources. Only a fully charged heavy attack will replenish resources.

5. These sorcs that have 14k hp (17.4k with food) because they pump all of their stats into magicka. This is actually smart for survivability because of Hardened Ward, which scales off of magicka. This is a sorcs ONLY source of in-combat survivability. We don't get an in-combat heal (don't say clannfear, it is a joke if you need it more than once in a fight), so we rely on Ward and superior mobility via BE.

DisgracefulMind

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Soarin' wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Some people don't seem to understand how Sorc plays in 1.6.

Soarin' wrote: »

I have seen sorcerers kitting large groups by using 8-15 bolt escapes cast simultaneously. I will record this next time I am skirmishing.

And I've had a person spam crit rush on me all the way from glade lumber back to aleswell mine. The way 1.6 works, light and medium armor users can basically have infinite magicka or stamina. There are sacrifices required to do this, I only have 14k health in Cyrodiil and 8k stam. I can CC break once, if I get knocked down again without full shields up I get to watch myself die. The ones that don't do this can't kite zergs around effectively as you complain about.

Soarin' wrote: »

It is till the quickest mobility skill in the game whilst a user is in combat, it ignores snares (which I think is utterly imbalanced) and allows the user to disengage fights whenever they feel that they may lose. I do not see how any person can justify having the ability to remove themselves from danger after engaging in combat.

Gap closers ignore snares as well, and if you want to talk about roots, ambush ignores those too. In regards to disengaging from fights, I direct you to the preceding sentence: gap closers prevent sorcs from disengaging. Use them. Additionally, light armor + dodge/block/cc break nerfs means that magicka sorcs die fast without kiting. If I wait until I "feel I might lose" to disengage, it means I'm already dead.

Soarin' wrote: »

Players need to be mindful of the odds when they engage in combat, you are essentially gambling with your characters life and need to in some cases chose not to initiate combat because you might die. When you commit to a fight you should have to see that wager through, if you misjudged the situation and are losing as a result you should die from that mistake.

So whereas DKs and temps can tank/sustain through multiple enemies, sorcs and non tank NB's should what, just die? Because that's what happens if you remove bolt escape and cloak as escape tools from those classes. What you state is exactly how I view combat playing on my sorc. When I go into a fight I'm committing to having people gap close me for the next few minutes. If I misjudge and there's archers in stealth, I die in about 5 sec.

Soarin' wrote: »

If you want to control combat range you should be taking a snare to slow your opponents and then be buffing your own speed. To do this should require a considerable investment of slots in one of your skill bars (2-3 of your skills) because it is such a powerful deciding factor in fights.

Dude that was a joke, right? Snares and speed buffs to control combat range? You are aware gap closers exist? Bolt escape takes 2 slots on my bar + my entire gear build to sustain it.

Soarin' wrote: »

If anything I think that bolt escape is too much of a safety net to players unwilling to take risks to gain rewards. I have been playing PVP in open world MMO's since 2006 and find TESO to still be one of the more forging pvp experiences. TESO 1.6 was an update I was waiting for since 2 months after release. It has been a great improvement to an otherwise biased character build system.

Bolt escape is only a safety net against people that don't use any of the various counters. Gap closers are available to all in their class line as well as two hander and sword/shield. DKs can even chain pull themselves after sorcs now. What exactly is your alternative for how magicka sorcs are supposed to play?

I have used both critical charge and ambush in an attempt to keep up with bolt escape sorcs, they are not reliable in that they require LOS, often I find that bumps in the terrain will prevent the skill activation. Also worth mentioning the server delay on skill activation has on many occasions resulted in an animation and audio triggers associated with skill activation but my character has remained in the same spot without the skill effect taking place.

I normally run in a group or 3-8 people, many of whom are among the top 40 on Thornblade, when engaged by a good sorc unless we stun and kill him in the opening of a fight we know there is little to no chance of holding him down to apply DPS. Attempting to DoT the target is also pointless with most decent skirmish sorcs slotting condition removal. We do not chase, 60% of the time you will end up running after him into a trap/zerg (AD biggest culprits here), only idiots will charge blindly in combat areas after a player for more that 50-75 meters.

If you are having problems with low stamina whilst using an 8k pool you are clearly not using tri-boost food which should put you over 10k, a 10k pool purely for CC breaks and dodge rolling. If you are running out of stamina in combat you aren't weaving in light attacks between your skills which is essential for sustaining resources.

Also worth noting that on your 14k health buffer with light armour you are 1-shot target and should look at redistributing your attributes, you will never survive an engagement where the opponent is able to use at least 2 skills on you or 1 skill such as snipe on a crit. The mistake of using shields as your HP primary buffer in order to tank is no doubt also a large contributor to your lack of magika resource. Shields if anything require a combination of HP buffer and HP regen in order to yield best results, else any bleed through is going to kill you outright.

Literally everything listed in this post explains how little you know about sorcs.

2. If you are running in a group and you can't lock down a single sorc, then I'm not sure anyone on this forum can help you. Two players that know what they are doing can render a sorc trying to BE away useless. Unless the sorc sat 30+ meters out, in which case he was playing very conservatively and isn't posing much of a threat to anyone. Throw a couple of snipes his way and I bet he will f*** off really quick.

I lol'd, twice. Because it's so true.

Soarin'

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Soarin' wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Some people don't seem to understand how Sorc plays in 1.6.

Soarin' wrote: »

I have seen sorcerers kitting large groups by using 8-15 bolt escapes cast simultaneously. I will record this next time I am skirmishing.

And I've had a person spam crit rush on me all the way from glade lumber back to aleswell mine. The way 1.6 works, light and medium armor users can basically have infinite magicka or stamina. There are sacrifices required to do this, I only have 14k health in Cyrodiil and 8k stam. I can CC break once, if I get knocked down again without full shields up I get to watch myself die. The ones that don't do this can't kite zergs around effectively as you complain about.

Soarin' wrote: »

It is till the quickest mobility skill in the game whilst a user is in combat, it ignores snares (which I think is utterly imbalanced) and allows the user to disengage fights whenever they feel that they may lose. I do not see how any person can justify having the ability to remove themselves from danger after engaging in combat.

Gap closers ignore snares as well, and if you want to talk about roots, ambush ignores those too. In regards to disengaging from fights, I direct you to the preceding sentence: gap closers prevent sorcs from disengaging. Use them. Additionally, light armor + dodge/block/cc break nerfs means that magicka sorcs die fast without kiting. If I wait until I "feel I might lose" to disengage, it means I'm already dead.

Soarin' wrote: »

Players need to be mindful of the odds when they engage in combat, you are essentially gambling with your characters life and need to in some cases chose not to initiate combat because you might die. When you commit to a fight you should have to see that wager through, if you misjudged the situation and are losing as a result you should die from that mistake.

So whereas DKs and temps can tank/sustain through multiple enemies, sorcs and non tank NB's should what, just die? Because that's what happens if you remove bolt escape and cloak as escape tools from those classes. What you state is exactly how I view combat playing on my sorc. When I go into a fight I'm committing to having people gap close me for the next few minutes. If I misjudge and there's archers in stealth, I die in about 5 sec.

Soarin' wrote: »

If you want to control combat range you should be taking a snare to slow your opponents and then be buffing your own speed. To do this should require a considerable investment of slots in one of your skill bars (2-3 of your skills) because it is such a powerful deciding factor in fights.

Dude that was a joke, right? Snares and speed buffs to control combat range? You are aware gap closers exist? Bolt escape takes 2 slots on my bar + my entire gear build to sustain it.

Soarin' wrote: »

If anything I think that bolt escape is too much of a safety net to players unwilling to take risks to gain rewards. I have been playing PVP in open world MMO's since 2006 and find TESO to still be one of the more forging pvp experiences. TESO 1.6 was an update I was waiting for since 2 months after release. It has been a great improvement to an otherwise biased character build system.

Bolt escape is only a safety net against people that don't use any of the various counters. Gap closers are available to all in their class line as well as two hander and sword/shield. DKs can even chain pull themselves after sorcs now. What exactly is your alternative for how magicka sorcs are supposed to play?

I have used both critical charge and ambush in an attempt to keep up with bolt escape sorcs, they are not reliable in that they require LOS, often I find that bumps in the terrain will prevent the skill activation. Also worth mentioning the server delay on skill activation has on many occasions resulted in an animation and audio triggers associated with skill activation but my character has remained in the same spot without the skill effect taking place.

I normally run in a group or 3-8 people, many of whom are among the top 40 on Thornblade, when engaged by a good sorc unless we stun and kill him in the opening of a fight we know there is little to no chance of holding him down to apply DPS. Attempting to DoT the target is also pointless with most decent skirmish sorcs slotting condition removal. We do not chase, 60% of the time you will end up running after him into a trap/zerg (AD biggest culprits here), only idiots will charge blindly in combat areas after a player for more that 50-75 meters.

If you are having problems with low stamina whilst using an 8k pool you are clearly not using tri-boost food which should put you over 10k, a 10k pool purely for CC breaks and dodge rolling. If you are running out of stamina in combat you aren't weaving in light attacks between your skills which is essential for sustaining resources.

Also worth noting that on your 14k health buffer with light armour you are 1-shot target and should look at redistributing your attributes, you will never survive an engagement where the opponent is able to use at least 2 skills on you or 1 skill such as snipe on a crit. The mistake of using shields as your HP primary buffer in order to tank is no doubt also a large contributor to your lack of magika resource. Shields if anything require a combination of HP buffer and HP regen in order to yield best results, else any bleed through is going to kill you outright.

Literally everything listed in this post explains how little you know about sorcs.

1. I agree, ambush is not a good gap closer against BE because of the cast time/pathing issues but crit charge and shield charge work just fine. As long as you were in range to activate the skill, you will follow the sorc even if he bolts out of the initial range requirement.

2. If you are running in a group and you can't lock down a single sorc, then I'm not sure anyone on this forum can help you. Two players that know what they are doing can render a sorc trying to BE away useless. Unless the sorc sat 30+ meters out, in which case he was playing very conservatively and isn't posing much of a threat to anyone. Throw a couple of snipes his way and I bet he will f*** off really quick.

3. I don't know of any sorc that slots purge in their setups unless they are doing so to assist Templars in cleansing, which is usually done in a group format, not the solo roaming sorc that most people complain about.

4. With food a sorc has 11.3k stamina without any other stat contributions. That allows a sorc to get 2 hard CC breaks (3 if you pop a tripot), or 3 dodge rolls, and that's assuming the sorc didn't block any attacks. Also, Light attack weaving (with a staff) does nothing to sustain stamina. In fact, light attack weaving in general (except for nightblades with siphoning attacks) does nothing to sustain resources. Only a fully charged heavy attack will replenish resources.

5. These sorcs that have 14k hp (17.4k with food) because they pump all of their stats into magicka. This is actually smart for survivability because of Hardened Ward, which scales off of magicka. This is a sorcs ONLY source of in-combat survivability. We don't get an in-combat heal (don't say clannfear, it is a joke if you need it more than once in a fight), so we rely on Ward and superior mobility via BE.

Learn from someone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CavgvcUe3i8

Pancake-Tragedy

Soarin' wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Soarin' wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Some people don't seem to understand how Sorc plays in 1.6.

Soarin' wrote: »

I have seen sorcerers kitting large groups by using 8-15 bolt escapes cast simultaneously. I will record this next time I am skirmishing.

And I've had a person spam crit rush on me all the way from glade lumber back to aleswell mine. The way 1.6 works, light and medium armor users can basically have infinite magicka or stamina. There are sacrifices required to do this, I only have 14k health in Cyrodiil and 8k stam. I can CC break once, if I get knocked down again without full shields up I get to watch myself die. The ones that don't do this can't kite zergs around effectively as you complain about.

Soarin' wrote: »

It is till the quickest mobility skill in the game whilst a user is in combat, it ignores snares (which I think is utterly imbalanced) and allows the user to disengage fights whenever they feel that they may lose. I do not see how any person can justify having the ability to remove themselves from danger after engaging in combat.

Gap closers ignore snares as well, and if you want to talk about roots, ambush ignores those too. In regards to disengaging from fights, I direct you to the preceding sentence: gap closers prevent sorcs from disengaging. Use them. Additionally, light armor + dodge/block/cc break nerfs means that magicka sorcs die fast without kiting. If I wait until I "feel I might lose" to disengage, it means I'm already dead.

Soarin' wrote: »

Players need to be mindful of the odds when they engage in combat, you are essentially gambling with your characters life and need to in some cases chose not to initiate combat because you might die. When you commit to a fight you should have to see that wager through, if you misjudged the situation and are losing as a result you should die from that mistake.

So whereas DKs and temps can tank/sustain through multiple enemies, sorcs and non tank NB's should what, just die? Because that's what happens if you remove bolt escape and cloak as escape tools from those classes. What you state is exactly how I view combat playing on my sorc. When I go into a fight I'm committing to having people gap close me for the next few minutes. If I misjudge and there's archers in stealth, I die in about 5 sec.

Soarin' wrote: »

If you want to control combat range you should be taking a snare to slow your opponents and then be buffing your own speed. To do this should require a considerable investment of slots in one of your skill bars (2-3 of your skills) because it is such a powerful deciding factor in fights.

Dude that was a joke, right? Snares and speed buffs to control combat range? You are aware gap closers exist? Bolt escape takes 2 slots on my bar + my entire gear build to sustain it.

Soarin' wrote: »

If anything I think that bolt escape is too much of a safety net to players unwilling to take risks to gain rewards. I have been playing PVP in open world MMO's since 2006 and find TESO to still be one of the more forging pvp experiences. TESO 1.6 was an update I was waiting for since 2 months after release. It has been a great improvement to an otherwise biased character build system.

Bolt escape is only a safety net against people that don't use any of the various counters. Gap closers are available to all in their class line as well as two hander and sword/shield. DKs can even chain pull themselves after sorcs now. What exactly is your alternative for how magicka sorcs are supposed to play?

I have used both critical charge and ambush in an attempt to keep up with bolt escape sorcs, they are not reliable in that they require LOS, often I find that bumps in the terrain will prevent the skill activation. Also worth mentioning the server delay on skill activation has on many occasions resulted in an animation and audio triggers associated with skill activation but my character has remained in the same spot without the skill effect taking place.

I normally run in a group or 3-8 people, many of whom are among the top 40 on Thornblade, when engaged by a good sorc unless we stun and kill him in the opening of a fight we know there is little to no chance of holding him down to apply DPS. Attempting to DoT the target is also pointless with most decent skirmish sorcs slotting condition removal. We do not chase, 60% of the time you will end up running after him into a trap/zerg (AD biggest culprits here), only idiots will charge blindly in combat areas after a player for more that 50-75 meters.

If you are having problems with low stamina whilst using an 8k pool you are clearly not using tri-boost food which should put you over 10k, a 10k pool purely for CC breaks and dodge rolling. If you are running out of stamina in combat you aren't weaving in light attacks between your skills which is essential for sustaining resources.

Also worth noting that on your 14k health buffer with light armour you are 1-shot target and should look at redistributing your attributes, you will never survive an engagement where the opponent is able to use at least 2 skills on you or 1 skill such as snipe on a crit. The mistake of using shields as your HP primary buffer in order to tank is no doubt also a large contributor to your lack of magika resource. Shields if anything require a combination of HP buffer and HP regen in order to yield best results, else any bleed through is going to kill you outright.

Literally everything listed in this post explains how little you know about sorcs.

1. I agree, ambush is not a good gap closer against BE because of the cast time/pathing issues but crit charge and shield charge work just fine. As long as you were in range to activate the skill, you will follow the sorc even if he bolts out of the initial range requirement.

2. If you are running in a group and you can't lock down a single sorc, then I'm not sure anyone on this forum can help you. Two players that know what they are doing can render a sorc trying to BE away useless. Unless the sorc sat 30+ meters out, in which case he was playing very conservatively and isn't posing much of a threat to anyone. Throw a couple of snipes his way and I bet he will f*** off really quick.

3. I don't know of any sorc that slots purge in their setups unless they are doing so to assist Templars in cleansing, which is usually done in a group format, not the solo roaming sorc that most people complain about.

4. With food a sorc has 11.3k stamina without any other stat contributions. That allows a sorc to get 2 hard CC breaks (3 if you pop a tripot), or 3 dodge rolls, and that's assuming the sorc didn't block any attacks. Also, Light attack weaving (with a staff) does nothing to sustain stamina. In fact, light attack weaving in general (except for nightblades with siphoning attacks) does nothing to sustain resources. Only a fully charged heavy attack will replenish resources.

5. These sorcs that have 14k hp (17.4k with food) because they pump all of their stats into magicka. This is actually smart for survivability because of Hardened Ward, which scales off of magicka. This is a sorcs ONLY source of in-combat survivability. We don't get an in-combat heal (don't say clannfear, it is a joke if you need it more than once in a fight), so we rely on Ward and superior mobility via BE.

Learn from someone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CavgvcUe3i8

Watch the last fight in that video

Spoiler alert: I win.

Edit: Not to say anything about Leper Si, I learn a lot from his videos and try to apply some of his methods to my own playstyle.

cozmon3c_ESO

Soarin' wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Soarin' wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Some people don't seem to understand how Sorc plays in 1.6.

Soarin' wrote: »

I have seen sorcerers kitting large groups by using 8-15 bolt escapes cast simultaneously. I will record this next time I am skirmishing.

And I've had a person spam crit rush on me all the way from glade lumber back to aleswell mine. The way 1.6 works, light and medium armor users can basically have infinite magicka or stamina. There are sacrifices required to do this, I only have 14k health in Cyrodiil and 8k stam. I can CC break once, if I get knocked down again without full shields up I get to watch myself die. The ones that don't do this can't kite zergs around effectively as you complain about.

Soarin' wrote: »

It is till the quickest mobility skill in the game whilst a user is in combat, it ignores snares (which I think is utterly imbalanced) and allows the user to disengage fights whenever they feel that they may lose. I do not see how any person can justify having the ability to remove themselves from danger after engaging in combat.

Gap closers ignore snares as well, and if you want to talk about roots, ambush ignores those too. In regards to disengaging from fights, I direct you to the preceding sentence: gap closers prevent sorcs from disengaging. Use them. Additionally, light armor + dodge/block/cc break nerfs means that magicka sorcs die fast without kiting. If I wait until I "feel I might lose" to disengage, it means I'm already dead.

Soarin' wrote: »

Players need to be mindful of the odds when they engage in combat, you are essentially gambling with your characters life and need to in some cases chose not to initiate combat because you might die. When you commit to a fight you should have to see that wager through, if you misjudged the situation and are losing as a result you should die from that mistake.

So whereas DKs and temps can tank/sustain through multiple enemies, sorcs and non tank NB's should what, just die? Because that's what happens if you remove bolt escape and cloak as escape tools from those classes. What you state is exactly how I view combat playing on my sorc. When I go into a fight I'm committing to having people gap close me for the next few minutes. If I misjudge and there's archers in stealth, I die in about 5 sec.

Soarin' wrote: »

If you want to control combat range you should be taking a snare to slow your opponents and then be buffing your own speed. To do this should require a considerable investment of slots in one of your skill bars (2-3 of your skills) because it is such a powerful deciding factor in fights.

Dude that was a joke, right? Snares and speed buffs to control combat range? You are aware gap closers exist? Bolt escape takes 2 slots on my bar + my entire gear build to sustain it.

Soarin' wrote: »

If anything I think that bolt escape is too much of a safety net to players unwilling to take risks to gain rewards. I have been playing PVP in open world MMO's since 2006 and find TESO to still be one of the more forging pvp experiences. TESO 1.6 was an update I was waiting for since 2 months after release. It has been a great improvement to an otherwise biased character build system.

Bolt escape is only a safety net against people that don't use any of the various counters. Gap closers are available to all in their class line as well as two hander and sword/shield. DKs can even chain pull themselves after sorcs now. What exactly is your alternative for how magicka sorcs are supposed to play?

I have used both critical charge and ambush in an attempt to keep up with bolt escape sorcs, they are not reliable in that they require LOS, often I find that bumps in the terrain will prevent the skill activation. Also worth mentioning the server delay on skill activation has on many occasions resulted in an animation and audio triggers associated with skill activation but my character has remained in the same spot without the skill effect taking place.

I normally run in a group or 3-8 people, many of whom are among the top 40 on Thornblade, when engaged by a good sorc unless we stun and kill him in the opening of a fight we know there is little to no chance of holding him down to apply DPS. Attempting to DoT the target is also pointless with most decent skirmish sorcs slotting condition removal. We do not chase, 60% of the time you will end up running after him into a trap/zerg (AD biggest culprits here), only idiots will charge blindly in combat areas after a player for more that 50-75 meters.

If you are having problems with low stamina whilst using an 8k pool you are clearly not using tri-boost food which should put you over 10k, a 10k pool purely for CC breaks and dodge rolling. If you are running out of stamina in combat you aren't weaving in light attacks between your skills which is essential for sustaining resources.

Also worth noting that on your 14k health buffer with light armour you are 1-shot target and should look at redistributing your attributes, you will never survive an engagement where the opponent is able to use at least 2 skills on you or 1 skill such as snipe on a crit. The mistake of using shields as your HP primary buffer in order to tank is no doubt also a large contributor to your lack of magika resource. Shields if anything require a combination of HP buffer and HP regen in order to yield best results, else any bleed through is going to kill you outright.

Literally everything listed in this post explains how little you know about sorcs.

1. I agree, ambush is not a good gap closer against BE because of the cast time/pathing issues but crit charge and shield charge work just fine. As long as you were in range to activate the skill, you will follow the sorc even if he bolts out of the initial range requirement.

2. If you are running in a group and you can't lock down a single sorc, then I'm not sure anyone on this forum can help you. Two players that know what they are doing can render a sorc trying to BE away useless. Unless the sorc sat 30+ meters out, in which case he was playing very conservatively and isn't posing much of a threat to anyone. Throw a couple of snipes his way and I bet he will f*** off really quick.

3. I don't know of any sorc that slots purge in their setups unless they are doing so to assist Templars in cleansing, which is usually done in a group format, not the solo roaming sorc that most people complain about.

4. With food a sorc has 11.3k stamina without any other stat contributions. That allows a sorc to get 2 hard CC breaks (3 if you pop a tripot), or 3 dodge rolls, and that's assuming the sorc didn't block any attacks. Also, Light attack weaving (with a staff) does nothing to sustain stamina. In fact, light attack weaving in general (except for nightblades with siphoning attacks) does nothing to sustain resources. Only a fully charged heavy attack will replenish resources.

5. These sorcs that have 14k hp (17.4k with food) because they pump all of their stats into magicka. This is actually smart for survivability because of Hardened Ward, which scales off of magicka. This is a sorcs ONLY source of in-combat survivability. We don't get an in-combat heal (don't say clannfear, it is a joke if you need it more than once in a fight), so we rely on Ward and superior mobility via BE.

Learn from someone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CavgvcUe3i8

you know whats funny soarin, im doing everything pancake tragedy said, and hes featured in my video winning against me lol.

Germtrocity

Soarin' wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Soarin' wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Some people don't seem to understand how Sorc plays in 1.6.

Soarin' wrote: »

I have seen sorcerers kitting large groups by using 8-15 bolt escapes cast simultaneously. I will record this next time I am skirmishing.

And I've had a person spam crit rush on me all the way from glade lumber back to aleswell mine. The way 1.6 works, light and medium armor users can basically have infinite magicka or stamina. There are sacrifices required to do this, I only have 14k health in Cyrodiil and 8k stam. I can CC break once, if I get knocked down again without full shields up I get to watch myself die. The ones that don't do this can't kite zergs around effectively as you complain about.

Soarin' wrote: »

It is till the quickest mobility skill in the game whilst a user is in combat, it ignores snares (which I think is utterly imbalanced) and allows the user to disengage fights whenever they feel that they may lose. I do not see how any person can justify having the ability to remove themselves from danger after engaging in combat.

Gap closers ignore snares as well, and if you want to talk about roots, ambush ignores those too. In regards to disengaging from fights, I direct you to the preceding sentence: gap closers prevent sorcs from disengaging. Use them. Additionally, light armor + dodge/block/cc break nerfs means that magicka sorcs die fast without kiting. If I wait until I "feel I might lose" to disengage, it means I'm already dead.

Soarin' wrote: »

Players need to be mindful of the odds when they engage in combat, you are essentially gambling with your characters life and need to in some cases chose not to initiate combat because you might die. When you commit to a fight you should have to see that wager through, if you misjudged the situation and are losing as a result you should die from that mistake.

So whereas DKs and temps can tank/sustain through multiple enemies, sorcs and non tank NB's should what, just die? Because that's what happens if you remove bolt escape and cloak as escape tools from those classes. What you state is exactly how I view combat playing on my sorc. When I go into a fight I'm committing to having people gap close me for the next few minutes. If I misjudge and there's archers in stealth, I die in about 5 sec.

Soarin' wrote: »

If you want to control combat range you should be taking a snare to slow your opponents and then be buffing your own speed. To do this should require a considerable investment of slots in one of your skill bars (2-3 of your skills) because it is such a powerful deciding factor in fights.

Dude that was a joke, right? Snares and speed buffs to control combat range? You are aware gap closers exist? Bolt escape takes 2 slots on my bar + my entire gear build to sustain it.

Soarin' wrote: »

If anything I think that bolt escape is too much of a safety net to players unwilling to take risks to gain rewards. I have been playing PVP in open world MMO's since 2006 and find TESO to still be one of the more forging pvp experiences. TESO 1.6 was an update I was waiting for since 2 months after release. It has been a great improvement to an otherwise biased character build system.

Bolt escape is only a safety net against people that don't use any of the various counters. Gap closers are available to all in their class line as well as two hander and sword/shield. DKs can even chain pull themselves after sorcs now. What exactly is your alternative for how magicka sorcs are supposed to play?

I have used both critical charge and ambush in an attempt to keep up with bolt escape sorcs, they are not reliable in that they require LOS, often I find that bumps in the terrain will prevent the skill activation. Also worth mentioning the server delay on skill activation has on many occasions resulted in an animation and audio triggers associated with skill activation but my character has remained in the same spot without the skill effect taking place.

I normally run in a group or 3-8 people, many of whom are among the top 40 on Thornblade, when engaged by a good sorc unless we stun and kill him in the opening of a fight we know there is little to no chance of holding him down to apply DPS. Attempting to DoT the target is also pointless with most decent skirmish sorcs slotting condition removal. We do not chase, 60% of the time you will end up running after him into a trap/zerg (AD biggest culprits here), only idiots will charge blindly in combat areas after a player for more that 50-75 meters.

If you are having problems with low stamina whilst using an 8k pool you are clearly not using tri-boost food which should put you over 10k, a 10k pool purely for CC breaks and dodge rolling. If you are running out of stamina in combat you aren't weaving in light attacks between your skills which is essential for sustaining resources.

Also worth noting that on your 14k health buffer with light armour you are 1-shot target and should look at redistributing your attributes, you will never survive an engagement where the opponent is able to use at least 2 skills on you or 1 skill such as snipe on a crit. The mistake of using shields as your HP primary buffer in order to tank is no doubt also a large contributor to your lack of magika resource. Shields if anything require a combination of HP buffer and HP regen in order to yield best results, else any bleed through is going to kill you outright.

Literally everything listed in this post explains how little you know about sorcs.

1. I agree, ambush is not a good gap closer against BE because of the cast time/pathing issues but crit charge and shield charge work just fine. As long as you were in range to activate the skill, you will follow the sorc even if he bolts out of the initial range requirement.

2. If you are running in a group and you can't lock down a single sorc, then I'm not sure anyone on this forum can help you. Two players that know what they are doing can render a sorc trying to BE away useless. Unless the sorc sat 30+ meters out, in which case he was playing very conservatively and isn't posing much of a threat to anyone. Throw a couple of snipes his way and I bet he will f*** off really quick.

3. I don't know of any sorc that slots purge in their setups unless they are doing so to assist Templars in cleansing, which is usually done in a group format, not the solo roaming sorc that most people complain about.

4. With food a sorc has 11.3k stamina without any other stat contributions. That allows a sorc to get 2 hard CC breaks (3 if you pop a tripot), or 3 dodge rolls, and that's assuming the sorc didn't block any attacks. Also, Light attack weaving (with a staff) does nothing to sustain stamina. In fact, light attack weaving in general (except for nightblades with siphoning attacks) does nothing to sustain resources. Only a fully charged heavy attack will replenish resources.

5. These sorcs that have 14k hp (17.4k with food) because they pump all of their stats into magicka. This is actually smart for survivability because of Hardened Ward, which scales off of magicka. This is a sorcs ONLY source of in-combat survivability. We don't get an in-combat heal (don't say clannfear, it is a joke if you need it more than once in a fight), so we rely on Ward and superior mobility via BE.

Learn from someone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CavgvcUe3i8

Please do not use a video telling another player to learn from someone - especially not other sorcs.
From the looks of it, you are the only person here who needs to learn from someone, as I can logically assume based on your complete lack of knowledge post that you run into many simple L2P issues on a daily basis and probably QQ about issues you have no idea about a lot.

Tankqull

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Soarin' wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Soarin' wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Some people don't seem to understand how Sorc plays in 1.6.

Soarin' wrote: »

I have seen sorcerers kitting large groups by using 8-15 bolt escapes cast simultaneously. I will record this next time I am skirmishing.

And I've had a person spam crit rush on me all the way from glade lumber back to aleswell mine. The way 1.6 works, light and medium armor users can basically have infinite magicka or stamina. There are sacrifices required to do this, I only have 14k health in Cyrodiil and 8k stam. I can CC break once, if I get knocked down again without full shields up I get to watch myself die. The ones that don't do this can't kite zergs around effectively as you complain about.

Soarin' wrote: »

It is till the quickest mobility skill in the game whilst a user is in combat, it ignores snares (which I think is utterly imbalanced) and allows the user to disengage fights whenever they feel that they may lose. I do not see how any person can justify having the ability to remove themselves from danger after engaging in combat.

Gap closers ignore snares as well, and if you want to talk about roots, ambush ignores those too. In regards to disengaging from fights, I direct you to the preceding sentence: gap closers prevent sorcs from disengaging. Use them. Additionally, light armor + dodge/block/cc break nerfs means that magicka sorcs die fast without kiting. If I wait until I "feel I might lose" to disengage, it means I'm already dead.

Soarin' wrote: »

Players need to be mindful of the odds when they engage in combat, you are essentially gambling with your characters life and need to in some cases chose not to initiate combat because you might die. When you commit to a fight you should have to see that wager through, if you misjudged the situation and are losing as a result you should die from that mistake.

So whereas DKs and temps can tank/sustain through multiple enemies, sorcs and non tank NB's should what, just die? Because that's what happens if you remove bolt escape and cloak as escape tools from those classes. What you state is exactly how I view combat playing on my sorc. When I go into a fight I'm committing to having people gap close me for the next few minutes. If I misjudge and there's archers in stealth, I die in about 5 sec.

Soarin' wrote: »

If you want to control combat range you should be taking a snare to slow your opponents and then be buffing your own speed. To do this should require a considerable investment of slots in one of your skill bars (2-3 of your skills) because it is such a powerful deciding factor in fights.

Dude that was a joke, right? Snares and speed buffs to control combat range? You are aware gap closers exist? Bolt escape takes 2 slots on my bar + my entire gear build to sustain it.

Soarin' wrote: »

If anything I think that bolt escape is too much of a safety net to players unwilling to take risks to gain rewards. I have been playing PVP in open world MMO's since 2006 and find TESO to still be one of the more forging pvp experiences. TESO 1.6 was an update I was waiting for since 2 months after release. It has been a great improvement to an otherwise biased character build system.

Bolt escape is only a safety net against people that don't use any of the various counters. Gap closers are available to all in their class line as well as two hander and sword/shield. DKs can even chain pull themselves after sorcs now. What exactly is your alternative for how magicka sorcs are supposed to play?

I have used both critical charge and ambush in an attempt to keep up with bolt escape sorcs, they are not reliable in that they require LOS, often I find that bumps in the terrain will prevent the skill activation. Also worth mentioning the server delay on skill activation has on many occasions resulted in an animation and audio triggers associated with skill activation but my character has remained in the same spot without the skill effect taking place.

I normally run in a group or 3-8 people, many of whom are among the top 40 on Thornblade, when engaged by a good sorc unless we stun and kill him in the opening of a fight we know there is little to no chance of holding him down to apply DPS. Attempting to DoT the target is also pointless with most decent skirmish sorcs slotting condition removal. We do not chase, 60% of the time you will end up running after him into a trap/zerg (AD biggest culprits here), only idiots will charge blindly in combat areas after a player for more that 50-75 meters.

If you are having problems with low stamina whilst using an 8k pool you are clearly not using tri-boost food which should put you over 10k, a 10k pool purely for CC breaks and dodge rolling. If you are running out of stamina in combat you aren't weaving in light attacks between your skills which is essential for sustaining resources.

Also worth noting that on your 14k health buffer with light armour you are 1-shot target and should look at redistributing your attributes, you will never survive an engagement where the opponent is able to use at least 2 skills on you or 1 skill such as snipe on a crit. The mistake of using shields as your HP primary buffer in order to tank is no doubt also a large contributor to your lack of magika resource. Shields if anything require a combination of HP buffer and HP regen in order to yield best results, else any bleed through is going to kill you outright.

Literally everything listed in this post explains how little you know about sorcs.

1. I agree, ambush is not a good gap closer against BE because of the cast time/pathing issues but crit charge and shield charge work just fine. As long as you were in range to activate the skill, you will follow the sorc even if he bolts out of the initial range requirement.

2. If you are running in a group and you can't lock down a single sorc, then I'm not sure anyone on this forum can help you. Two players that know what they are doing can render a sorc trying to BE away useless. Unless the sorc sat 30+ meters out, in which case he was playing very conservatively and isn't posing much of a threat to anyone. Throw a couple of snipes his way and I bet he will f*** off really quick.

3. I don't know of any sorc that slots purge in their setups unless they are doing so to assist Templars in cleansing, which is usually done in a group format, not the solo roaming sorc that most people complain about.

4. With food a sorc has 11.3k stamina without any other stat contributions. That allows a sorc to get 2 hard CC breaks (3 if you pop a tripot), or 3 dodge rolls, and that's assuming the sorc didn't block any attacks. Also, Light attack weaving (with a staff) does nothing to sustain stamina. In fact, light attack weaving in general (except for nightblades with siphoning attacks) does nothing to sustain resources. Only a fully charged heavy attack will replenish resources.

5. These sorcs that have 14k hp (17.4k with food) because they pump all of their stats into magicka. This is actually smart for survivability because of Hardened Ward, which scales off of magicka. This is a sorcs ONLY source of in-combat survivability. We don't get an in-combat heal (don't say clannfear, it is a joke if you need it more than once in a fight), so we rely on Ward and superior mobility via BE.

Learn from someone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CavgvcUe3i8

Watch the last fight in that video

Spoiler alert: I win.

Edit: Not to say anything about Leper Si, I learn a lot from his videos and try to apply some of his methods to my own playstyle.

what i actually find awesome are the tremendous high dmg values visible in his death recap after the fight against you. haven´t seen any comparable by any other class in that way...

RinaldoGandolphi

While i think Bolt Escape needs unnerfed because the game meta has changed and BE has a lot of viable counters now. I will say this:

Ball of Lighting Needs fixed, it doesn't even work half the time anymore. in 1.5 i'd say it worked 7 out of 10 times, in 1.6 it works maybe 3 out of 10 times...i don't know how many times this weekend i would pop Ball of Lighting, my Ball appears, i stay behind my ball, relatively close(tried various positions), and watch someone spam hit me with Crushing Shock, Mage's Wrath, etc from range ignoring my Ball that's supposed to absorb things, while all my ball does is stand their and glow telling the whole world "Hey their is a sorc here come kill him". Thank god for rocks, trees, and walls, they blocked more ranged magic then BOL has for me lately.

I think im going back to Streak(or unmorphed Bolt Escape), first time since i wanna say June..July maybe? at least Streak does what the tooltip says 100% of the time, the CC immunity can be played around, as much as that sucks, its a known variable that can be accounted for,.

BOL seems like a roll of the dice now hoping the balls decide to absorb spells. the fact BOL doesn't do any damage at all either makes this worse, because if it don't absorb spell projectiles like its supposed to(I think its bugged worse then 1.5 and don't work most of the time), then all its doing is putting a big target on your back, in this case, if you don't want to use Streak, your better off leaving Bolt Escape unmorphed...right now, Unmorphed Bolt Escape is a better option then BOL at least Unmorphed BE doesn't tell the world and everyone from here to the IPC where you are and to come kill you, this wouldn't be so bad if the spell absorb worked correctly, but most of the time it don;t, and that's not a fair trade off in my mind.

I really hope the devs look into this soon because right now BOL is bugged and it don't work or absorb spells at all over half the time, it truly is a gamble if it will work or not.

Cody

@Germtrocity, the NB CC is Aspect of fear.

RinaldoGandolphi

Please don't get me wrong, im not saying Streak is better then BOL or Vice Versa, I just want the devs to fix BOL so it absorbs spells all the time like its supposed to instead of only working part of the time.

TheBonesXXX

Still good in my opinion, pure magicka sorc can get away just fine.

ishilb14_ESO

I think streak is perfectly fine the way it is. If you nerf it anymore it would become useless, and if you buff it even the slightest, it would become entirely OP. As it stands, it's a really good skill, but not OP, it would be OP if the cooldown was removed. That being said, I think ball of lightning shouldn't be able to absorb an infinite amount of spell projectiles, it should be nerfed to around 6 or so since another one can be produced after 4 seconds anyway if one waits for the cooldown. Alternatively, it can be changed so that when a new ball is produced the old one disappears.

Teargrants

ishilpatelb14_ESO wrote: »

I think streak is perfectly fine the way it is. If you nerf it anymore it would become useless, and if you buff it even the slightest, it would become entirely OP. As it stands, it's a really good skill, but not OP, it would be OP if the cooldown was removed. That being said, I think ball of lightning shouldn't be able to absorb an infinite amount of spell projectiles, it should be nerfed to around 6 or so since another one can be produced after 4 seconds anyway if one waits for the cooldown. Alternatively, it can be changed so that when a new ball is produced the old one disappears.

Need to make it so the balls actually absorb stuff 100% accurately then, instead of this roll of the dice it is now.

Xsorus

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

The only argument people have for BE retaining its increased magicka cost is that a sorc can BE away. Sure sorcs can kite/run away very well, but most players also seem to look past the fact that any build that uses a charge can stick with them the entire time.

You're talking about whether or not there should be a mechanic that restricts consecutive bolt escapes.
I'm talking about the fact that restricting bolt escapes is intended by ZOS and that there are better ways to do it, (namely ones that wouldn't so harshly impact stamina builds).

The restriction on BE came during a time when the entire community was crying about sorcs being able to run away from fights and no one figured out that a charge could follow a bolt escaping sorc.

You're right in that other mechanics would be irrelevant if they just gave up whole restriction concept. But they haven't. It has only gotten more restrictive over time because the method they are using is not a great way to do it.

Only one skill in the whole game has a restrictive mechanic. Can you guess which one it is?

Wait, you think people didn't know you could charge a sorc back then? That's why no one was doing it?


Charging a Sorc going in a straight line is all fun and dandy....But the second they broke LOS by Teleporting behind say a Tree or a Rock and you couldn't Charge them because your ability actually required LOS they'd be gone...and there is nothing you could do to stop them..They can do the same thing right now...only they can't come back 2 seconds later and open on ya again because Mana like before..That is really the only difference.

Everyone seems to have a story about the sorc that got away. You know, because escaping a fight is OP.

No one ever recalls how they "locked that noob streaking sorc" down with shield charges/talons/stampede/fear until the sorc was out of stamina and then that sorc turns into a punching bag.

Talons doesn't stop Bolt Escape..neither does Stampede... Shield Charge will for 1 time.. At least till they make it behind a tree

ishilb14_ESO

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Talons doesn't stop Bolt Escape..neither does Stampede... Shield Charge will for 1 time.. At least till they make it behind a tree

So you're problem with sorcs isn't their ability to win fights, but run away from them. Would you prefer they just stand there and take it up the butt? How about this, give us green dragonblood and reflective scales and you can have bolt escape, deal? Say something constructive next time. Like "increase the BE cooldown penalty to 200% base cost but decrease the timer to 2 seconds, this way they can use it tactically but not to escape after a minute of fighting"

Francescolg

In old times, many years ago, in Diablo 2 (pre-expansion) the Blizzard devs were intelligent enough to recognize that a caster should only be able to teleport once! Teleport was nurfed after the "ancient" Diablo devs understood that more then one teleport at once is O.P. (no matter what - no matter if cost increased)

What ZOS did as a so called nurf, in reality wasn't a real nurf. You can be happy that they are somehow too cautious at balancing (they just came from college), because otherwise they would have immediately cut the number of possible streaks to one (not one more). The situation in this game's PvP is: spammable / reappliable CC everywhere, especially root / Talons / Caltrops / too many skills with CC.. and so on.

Lied

ishilpatelb14_ESO wrote: »

So you're problem with sorcs isn't their ability to win fights, but run away from them.

If nightblades had a morph for cloak that made them immune to damage but unable to deal damage for the purpose of disengaging whenever they felt like it, would that be OK with you since they were simply running away? As in the effectiveness of an escape tool doesn't matter since you're not killing someone, (at least I think that's what you're saying).

I ask because some people talk about how you can easily counter BE, while others talk about how it's not a problem that BE is so effective because they're just disengaging. Those arguments seem kind of mutually exclusive to me.

Teargrants

Lied wrote: »

ishilpatelb14_ESO wrote: »

So you're problem with sorcs isn't their ability to win fights, but run away from them.

If nightblades had a morph for cloak that made them immune to damage but unable to deal damage for the purpose of disengaging whenever they felt like it, would that be OK with you since they were simply running away? As in the effectiveness of an escape tool doesn't matter since you're not killing someone, (at least I think that's what you're saying).

I ask because some people talk about how you can easily counter BE, while others talk about how it's not a problem that BE is so effective because they're just disengaging. Those arguments seem kind of mutually exclusive to me.

NB cloak can already be used for that, it force misses atks on activation.

Pancake-Tragedy

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

Pancake-Tragedy wrote: »

The only argument people have for BE retaining its increased magicka cost is that a sorc can BE away. Sure sorcs can kite/run away very well, but most players also seem to look past the fact that any build that uses a charge can stick with them the entire time.

You're talking about whether or not there should be a mechanic that restricts consecutive bolt escapes.
I'm talking about the fact that restricting bolt escapes is intended by ZOS and that there are better ways to do it, (namely ones that wouldn't so harshly impact stamina builds).

The restriction on BE came during a time when the entire community was crying about sorcs being able to run away from fights and no one figured out that a charge could follow a bolt escaping sorc.

You're right in that other mechanics would be irrelevant if they just gave up whole restriction concept. But they haven't. It has only gotten more restrictive over time because the method they are using is not a great way to do it.

Only one skill in the whole game has a restrictive mechanic. Can you guess which one it is?

Wait, you think people didn't know you could charge a sorc back then? That's why no one was doing it?


Charging a Sorc going in a straight line is all fun and dandy....But the second they broke LOS by Teleporting behind say a Tree or a Rock and you couldn't Charge them because your ability actually required LOS they'd be gone...and there is nothing you could do to stop them..They can do the same thing right now...only they can't come back 2 seconds later and open on ya again because Mana like before..That is really the only difference.

Everyone seems to have a story about the sorc that got away. You know, because escaping a fight is OP.

No one ever recalls how they "locked that noob streaking sorc" down with shield charges/talons/stampede/fear until the sorc was out of stamina and then that sorc turns into a punching bag.

Talons doesn't stop Bolt Escape..neither does Stampede... Shield Charge will for 1 time.. At least till they make it behind a tree

Talons forces a sorc to dodge roll, or only have one direction of bolt escape, which is the direction that the sorc is facing (it doesn't follow where the cursor is facing)

Stampede is just an example of a gap closer, I used stampede as the example because it also applies a snare which will definitely help in locking that sorc down.

Shield charge, another gap closer but this one comes with a stun. Once you are in range to shield charge once, you will be able to continuously shield charge that sorc unless they get line of sight from you. Also keep in mind, CC immunity only lasts 4 seconds, so in 8 seconds you can completely deplete a sorcs stamina (from 2 break frees, assuming the sorc is using tri-stat food and no other stamina contributions).

With the current restriction on BE, stamina based builds with their gap closers will out-pace a sorcs ability to BE away and have plenty of stamina left to be offensive. What is surprising to me, is that something so simple is eluding you...Your ability to use a skill with a charge counters my ability to bolt escape away once you are in range. The very fact that there is more than one way to counter a skill should lead one to believe that it is balanced.

Lied

Teargrants wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

ishilpatelb14_ESO wrote: »

So you're problem with sorcs isn't their ability to win fights, but run away from them.

If nightblades had a morph for cloak that made them immune to damage but unable to deal damage for the purpose of disengaging whenever they felt like it, would that be OK with you since they were simply running away? As in the effectiveness of an escape tool doesn't matter since you're not killing someone, (at least I think that's what you're saying).

I ask because some people talk about how you can easily counter BE, while others talk about how it's not a problem that BE is so effective because they're just disengaging. Those arguments seem kind of mutually exclusive to me.

NB cloak can already be used for that, it force misses atks on activation.

You're under the impression that cloak works as well as BE for running away? No wonder nobody can agree on how it should work.

Makkir

Ezareth wrote: »

Some great points @Germtrocity I agree with pretty much everything you said (although pre 1.6 laying down through a Crystal Fragment stun could be dangerous because your opponent was rewarded with 15% crit against you while you were down).

I think Streak is now a total joke ability where before it was actually a viable alternative to Ball of Lightning. Giving everyone in essence "free" CC immunity at a high expense to yourself is just stupid. There is just very little reason to go streaking through a group of people right now.

[/quote]

Maybe streak to show off that sizable destruction staff?

Tankqull

Lied wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Lied wrote: »

ishilpatelb14_ESO wrote: »

So you're problem with sorcs isn't their ability to win fights, but run away from them.

If nightblades had a morph for cloak that made them immune to damage but unable to deal damage for the purpose of disengaging whenever they felt like it, would that be OK with you since they were simply running away? As in the effectiveness of an escape tool doesn't matter since you're not killing someone, (at least I think that's what you're saying).

I ask because some people talk about how you can easily counter BE, while others talk about how it's not a problem that BE is so effective because they're just disengaging. Those arguments seem kind of mutually exclusive to me.

NB cloak can already be used for that, it force misses atks on activation.

You're under the impression that cloak works as well as BE for running away? No wonder nobody can agree on how it should work.

if no detection pots are involved they are working even better than BE