1.3 Massive nerf to DKs. No range abilities, and now Talons is 100% useless in PvP = kite all DKs.

dafraorb16_ESO

but but but they are the Dragonborn!!11!!1!!1!1!!!!
They should do 1vs10 and win but with this fix they can win a 1vs5 only
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

Maulkin

double post

Xnemesis

Oh surprise monkey made a you broke my DK thread....

Brizz

ITS MY TURN BABY! <NB

kitsinni

Actually if there is one thing that has ruined PvP in almost every game it is allowing abuse of CC.

Morticielle

Finally DKs are there, where they belong - in reality, not in a dreamworld.

magnusnet wrote: »

I hope people asking for nerfs on DK are happy it's the worst class in PVP now and stop asking for nerfs.

Actually I'm very happy. And the whining from DKs who realize, that they aren't anymore the top of the foodchain, is like angels singing to me ...

But to be honest: Reflective Scales and Dragon Blood have to be nerfed too. Both need either higher magicka costs or cool downs.

TehMagnus

Morticielle wrote: »

Finally DKs are there, where they belong - in reality, not in a dreamworld.

magnusnet wrote: »

I hope people asking for nerfs on DK are happy it's the worst class in PVP now and stop asking for nerfs.

Actually I'm very happy. And the whining from DKs who realize, that they aren't anymore the top of the foodchain, is like angels singing to me ...

But to be honest: Reflective Scales and Dragon Blood have to be nerfed too. Both need either higher magicka costs or cool downs.

You need to play better your own class which also has op build possibilities and stop asking for nerf on other classes just because you're jealous of how awesome they are

Redlag

Anvos wrote: »

Honestly I have to say I don't care, as making pvp dependent on stun locking somebody into not having a chance to fight at all isn't exactly fun. So less stunning means more fighting and using other abilities.

I have to agree. The stun lock is sad PvP in the first place. I also have to admit I have never seen balanced PvP. I am a PvPer at heart. I have to admit I've always looked for the most effective class that dominates more classes than it is dominated by. I do not mind killing someone who doesn't have a chance. I strive to find the class build that makes it nearly impossible to win against me.

I also believe humans are the best race. We all tend to gravitate towards what works and then utterly abuse it to our advantage. Then defend it against anyone who strives to take it away.

I played UO as a bard. I was a millionaire doing things that other players couldn't even fathom as possible unless they experienced what I was doing, and that was beating anything with little effort. I changed from a wizard to a rogue in DoAC to one shot people with ambush, into a hunter to reap the benefits of a distance dominance into a necromancer to kill people through walls (before they fixed it) into an a Hero in order to moose stun players from behind endlessly. I played Starwars in 2004 I was the first bounty hunter to max level. I pistol whipped everyone to death. I made people quit game camping them. I Exploited my AoE knock down to kill entire groups of people. I was the first person to earn 3 walkers in the game, I played on Bloodfin, I would get incapped and control an entire town spamming A kill, B kill, C Kill for my walkers to kill anyone trying to get close enough to kill me. When they nerfed my bounty hunter and my walkers I made an AOE medic that could cast AoE mind disease that a player couldn't cure fast enough before they died. I stun locked as a rogue in WoW, then changed to a mage to frost the majority of warriors who were defenseless against it, then I changed to a warlock when sacrificing an abomination made you immune to damge long enough to kill anyone, then I changed to a warrior when we had so many closers that made playing a caster impossible... All the while I played a twink hunter in lower BG dominating.

I have to say. As much as I love PvP. I have never seen a balanced game and have always gravitated to what is the most overpowering. I will also say my DK is my highest VR level, but I have one of each class leveling VRs. My NB is second highest anticipating a complete gaff by ZoS to fix stamina and overpowering NBS, but I have a sorc and temp for at VR to anticipate buffs and nerfs. I will always play the strongest class. Which for now is the DK.

Healers though have always been my bane. I hate to play healers, but in every game Ive played a good healer will ruin your day. It feels like you're getting cheated out of what is yours. The rewards for killing. So if you truly hate overpowered classes roll a pure healer. You will kill dreams. You will destroy everyone that thought they would face roll. You will roll onto the scene and save people from those elite kill everybodys and they will rez cursing at you.

THE END. You will never balance PvP. There will always be a better kill and everyone who like to kill will have that alt in 2 days. Roll a healer and screw them from the inside out. Redlags out.

Cody

...... ADAPT. you have FIFTEEN CLASS ABILITES. experiment with them, and find some new ones to use.

dafraorb16_ESO

How do you all dare?They are the Dragonborn.

Ghenra

100% with the OP, I'm a melee CCer DK and now my game style is completely broken, the only way to be not useless in RvR is making an uber noob staff build spamming AoE.

Really all of you want this in Cyrodiil? Zergs spamming their AoE and combats where who makes more damage always will win, without possible roam gankers making a rear intrusion stunning and paralyzing healers and casters to do a possible victory for the other faction.

Cody

Ghenra wrote: »

100% with the OP, I'm a melee CCer DK and now my game style is completely broken, the only way to be not useless in RvR is making an uber noob staff build spamming AoE.

Really all of you want this in Cyrodiil? Zergs spamming their AoE and combats where who makes more damage always will win, without possible roam gankers making a rear intrusion stunning and paralyzing healers and casters to do a possible victory for the other faction.

so because you cant use one ability your entire build is utterly broken?

VagabondAngel

kitsinni wrote: »

Actually if there is one thing that has ruined PvP in almost every game it is allowing abuse of CC.

And if there is another one thing it's zerging, ult spamming, emperor farming, impulse spam stacking, NB stealth attacks. burning oil, vampires, bolt-escape spam, VR12 god-mode gear, spies, afk alts, imagined alliances, exploiting, macros, hacking, cheating...

Players. The problem with player vs player is the players.

dafraorb16_ESO

NookyZooky wrote: »

Ghenra wrote: »

100% with the OP, I'm a melee CCer DK and now my game style is completely broken, the only way to be not useless in RvR is making an uber noob staff build spamming AoE.

Really all of you want this in Cyrodiil? Zergs spamming their AoE and combats where who makes more damage always will win, without possible roam gankers making a rear intrusion stunning and paralyzing healers and casters to do a possible victory for the other faction.

so because you cant use one ability your entire build is utterly broken?

DKs be used to dominated in PvP with 2 skills only.
Now they must use all 12 slot ability like the other classes and they cry on forum

makkon

good, now I can kite dk...!!!
to get shield charge in you face.

Xnemesis

no more shield charge, talons, standard, scales spam. I am very ok with this change

TehMagnus

dafraorb16_ESO wrote: »

Now they must use all 12 slot ability like the other classes and they cry on forum

Bolt + Bat Swarm + Elemental Explosion : 3 skills.
Sneak attack arrow, + 2 or 3 more arrows to kill the player before he gets up: 2 or 3 skills max?

I don't even know what those templars that just stand there with 10 enemies around them and are full health & take 3/4 of my HP are doing but I bet it doesn't involve 12 skills either.

Xnemesis

magnusnet wrote: »

dafraorb16_ESO wrote: »

Now they must use all 12 slot ability like the other classes and they cry on forum

Bolt + Bat Swarm + Elemental Explosion : 3 skills.
Sneak attack arrow, + 2 or 3 more arrows to kill the player before he gets up: 2 or 3 skills max?

I don't even know what those templars that just stand there with 10 enemies around them and are full health & take 3/4 of my HP are doing but I bet it doesn't involve 12 skills either.

Bows are forced to play their full heavy attack animation now so don't think you are the only class nerfed, and yes sorcs are still FOTM

WeerW3ir

Great job ZOS... You just destroyed my favorite class because you again listened to noobish NB guys.

timidobserver

As a Templar, I have no reliable aoe cc. For that reason, I am not upset that DKs ability to endlessly spam aoe cc has reduced.

Xsorus

Two things surprise me

That people still used Burning Talons

That people still whine about Burning Talons

Granted I don't play in a Zerg Ball, but there is a reason I switched to the 1 handed sword immobilize. Because everyone and their mother would dodge roll out of BT soon as ya did it giving them immunity and wasting your mana.

TehMagnus

Xnemesis wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

dafraorb16_ESO wrote: »

Now they must use all 12 slot ability like the other classes and they cry on forum

Bolt + Bat Swarm + Elemental Explosion : 3 skills.
Sneak attack arrow, + 2 or 3 more arrows to kill the player before he gets up: 2 or 3 skills max?

I don't even know what those templars that just stand there with 10 enemies around them and are full health & take 3/4 of my HP are doing but I bet it doesn't involve 12 skills either.

Bows are forced to play their full heavy attack animation now so don't think you are the only class nerfed, and yes sorcs are still FOTM

TBH, I allways used Invasion & talons and I always saw people breaking of my CC with bash and then rolldodging to get out of talons (and I always did that to get out of the CC of other DKs), so I don't think I'll even see a difference nor will it affect my gameplay.

What annoys me is that when people get owned by a mechanic, instead of learning how to play against it (block a DK when he uses invasion, get out of his ult (rolldodge again I mean hit one key TWICE how hard is that?), get away from sorcs bat swarm & use invasion as soon as he drops out of ultimate or use talon during his ulti to spot him, stay away from templars & bash them while they recover) they just come here and ask for a nerf and will end up breaking any kind of gameplay that requires a bit of skill on the long run.

Thechemicals

Syndy wrote: »

So roots and snares(?), now having an immunity timer like every other CC in the game has broken your class?

Um.... Ok...

monkeymystic wrote: »

This is also a big nerf to ESO PVP overall, since roots in the game like encase, talons etc was part of the pvp tactics when playing against other raids.

Literally every strategy against other raids is, DK run in hit talons, drop Standard, and everyone spam Impulse, while the DK spams Talons... Throw in an oil pot and you have a party...

That, in my opinion was one of the biggest problems with the PvP, there was literally no strategy involved it is all about clustering up and spamming roots and impulse...

This is a good change, should make people use more ST abilities and hopefully get rid of some of the mindless AoE spam.

That is a strategy. You just stopped calling it that when you couldn't figure out how to counter it. Very soon your going to see some very interesting combinations with Magma Armor and when you cant figure it out, youll moan about what a no brainer strat it is. Chew on this for a while, everyone in this game doing pvp has 1 or 2 buttons that they are pressing more than the others. There is your big mental midget strategy.

Maulkin

dafraorb16_ESO wrote: »

but but but they are the Dragonborn!!11!!1!!1!1!!!!
They should do 1vs10 and win but with this fix they can win a 1vs5 only
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

dafraorb16_ESO wrote: »

How do you all dare?They are the Dragonborn.

Same trolljoke as 1 page ago. Terrible humour made even worse by the repetition, but some marks given for persistence.
Troll Rating: 3/10

Keep working on it...

Xnemesis

magnusnet wrote: »

Xnemesis wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

dafraorb16_ESO wrote: »

Now they must use all 12 slot ability like the other classes and they cry on forum

Bolt + Bat Swarm + Elemental Explosion : 3 skills.
Sneak attack arrow, + 2 or 3 more arrows to kill the player before he gets up: 2 or 3 skills max?

I don't even know what those templars that just stand there with 10 enemies around them and are full health & take 3/4 of my HP are doing but I bet it doesn't involve 12 skills either.

Bows are forced to play their full heavy attack animation now so don't think you are the only class nerfed, and yes sorcs are still FOTM

TBH, I allways used Invasion & talons and I always saw people breaking of my CC with bash and then rolldodging to get out of talons (and I always did that to get out of the CC of other DKs), so I don't think I'll even see a difference nor will it affect my gameplay.

What annoys me is that when people get owned by a mechanic, instead of learning how to play against it (block a DK when he uses invasion, get out of his ult (rolldodge again I mean hit one key TWICE how hard is that?), get away from sorcs bat swarm & use invasion as soon as he drops out of ultimate or use talon during his ulti to spot him, stay away from templars & bash them while they recover) they just come here and ask for a nerf and will end up breaking any kind of gameplay that requires a bit of skill on the long run.

No I got ya but as a NB I can break cc, roll dodge, and then stealth to get some distance. After that then what though plink you with arrows until you run out of stamina lol.... rightttt. If I use a spell I get scales, pair that with blocking and immovable and its night night. DKs literally have a defense for everything, while as a NB all I can do is run away. Next thing I hope they change is the amount of damage players do while blocking!

LonePirate

makkon wrote: »

good, now I can kite dk...!!!
to get shield charge in you face.

You could easily kite DKs before this change. You must be a bad player if you think this DK nerf suddenly makes it easier to kite them. For the record, I stopped using Talons a long time ago because it was a useless skill given how easy players could break from them. I never spammed the ability nor did I ever use them to exploit the infamous unbreakable CC. I just don't play that way.

As a DK, I am inclined to agree with the OP in one regard, though. DKs are vulnerable to ranged skills. The other three classes all have ranged class skills (not ultimates) that can easily deal 800-1000 damage each time they are executed, which can happen multiple times. DKs have nothing of the sort. The best they can manage is one of the ranged weapon skills like Focused Aim or Invasion. I have never seen those weapon skills put out the damage numbers that the Magicka based class skills can generate. Also, Reflective Scales is not the miracle counter skill to the ranged skills used by the other classes. It is not nearly as effective as non-DKs seem to think it is.

Not only that but DKs also lack a good burst DPS skill. I was jumped by a stealthed NB last night who two-shotted me in about 2 seconds. The death recap listed only two skills both executed a single time which did over 2000 damage apiece. DKs have nothing that comes close to that sort of instant damage.

Use stealth, burst and ranged skills to defeat a DK or take your chances in a longer face-to-face encounter. Just stop whining and complaining that DKs are OP or that your class is UP as nothing could be further from the truth.

Illuvatarr

Quit your crying. I use Daedric Tomb religiously as one of a few ways to actually beat DK's and stop gap closing. The root component of this spell which keeps DK's off of me has been nerfed with this change; just like your root. You aren't the only class in this game; although a lot of DK's arrogantly believe so.

I support this change and will have to adapt as finally, at long last, DK's are being brought down to the levels of the other classes. Working as intended. Roll a nightblade and feel true pain if you don't like it.

Wifeaggro13

monkeymystic wrote: »

Congratulations ZOS, you officially broke PVP with basically giving perma immunity to all roots in the game (Encase, Talons etc).

This effects DKs the worst since they are a melee class with zero range abilities and DEPEND on roots to actually avoid getting kited constantly.
Their "class gimmick" is talons, which is now 100% useless in pvp thanks to all the nerfs to radius, damage, and now making the skill a complete joke in the end with 1.3.

As a DK, the new class gimmick will be "please kite me with your range spells until I die".

This also affects abilities like flame lash that depend on roots to actually work, which is yet another huge nerf.

This is also a big nerf to ESO PVP overall, since roots in the game like encase, talons etc was part of the pvp tactics when playing against other raids.

6 player AoE cap, and now this.
ZOS is slowly destroying ESO PvP, dumbing it down more and more, and it is becoming the zergfest that made Guild wars 2 fail in the end.

they broke the DK months ago with patches. I rerolled a sorc tank because i knew PVP would destroy the class i saw the train in the tunnel and get the Hell out. Once i realized they were not gonna address the Light armor / stave issue and had no intention of fixing the other armors. the only other logical and much easier thing to do would be to Nerf the heall out of classes. By the level of whinning and complaining by PVP soloist gank squads it was a matter of time.

Maulkin

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Quit your crying. I use Daedric Tomb religiously as one of a few ways to actually beat DK's and stop gap closing. The root component of this spell which keeps DK's off of me has been nerfed with this change; just like your root. You aren't the only class in this game; although a lot of DK's arrogantly believe so.

I support this change and will have to adapt as finally, at long last, DK's are being brought down to the levels of the other classes. Working as intended. Roll a nightblade and feel true pain if you don't like it.

Oh trust me I'm rolling a NB as we speak. You can keep saying how NBs are weak or broken, it suits me just fine. Clearly you haven't been paying attention

Syndy

Thechemicals wrote: »

Syndy wrote: »

So roots and snares(?), now having an immunity timer like every other CC in the game has broken your class?

Um.... Ok...

monkeymystic wrote: »

This is also a big nerf to ESO PVP overall, since roots in the game like encase, talons etc was part of the pvp tactics when playing against other raids.

Literally every strategy against other raids is, DK run in hit talons, drop Standard, and everyone spam Impulse, while the DK spams Talons... Throw in an oil pot and you have a party...

That, in my opinion was one of the biggest problems with the PvP, there was literally no strategy involved it is all about clustering up and spamming roots and impulse...

This is a good change, should make people use more ST abilities and hopefully get rid of some of the mindless AoE spam.

That is a strategy. You just stopped calling it that when you couldn't figure out how to counter it. Very soon your going to see some very interesting combinations with Magma Armor and when you cant figure it out, youll moan about what a no brainer strat it is. Chew on this for a while, everyone in this game doing pvp has 1 or 2 buttons that they are pressing more than the others. There is your big mental midget strategy.

Where did I say I didn't know how to counter it? Thanks for assuming you know me and what I know or don't know about the game.

Magma armor is an Ult, so comparing a strategy to use against it versus a spammable root that granted no immunity is not possible...

Chew on this for a while, Roots have an immunity timer now, so raids need a new mental midget strategy. Roots not having an immunity from the start was bad design.

I guess it is hard for me to swallow that playing follow the leader pressing, at max, 2 buttons is strategy to you... That's cool, to each his own, IMO, that is not strategy, that is mindless play.