Cloak Needs A Nerf

Domander · September 2015

I remember not too long ago nightblade was considered the weakest, most broken class of all. Direct nerfs should not even be something considered.

CP5 · September 2015

Nightblades seem to be gladly glazing over the fact that yes, at release they were broken but ever since they have received many powerful buffs and a lot of bug fixes. To those saying that only recently (will say past 4ish months) have they became strong, or that they lack survivability outside of cloak spam, would a list of all the changes the class has received since launch or a rundown of all the classes skills and passives be enough to prove otherwise? You build to be a glass cannon expect to be one, and if you willingly disregard skills to help...

Xsorus · September 2015

Domander wrote: »

I remember not too long ago nightblade was considered the weakest, most broken class of all. Direct nerfs should not even be something considered.

Maybe at the beginning of the game they were considered weak..

But there hasn't been a point in probably over a year where they've not been considered very good.

ToRelax · September 2015

Imo NB has been at least on par with all other classes since 1.5 (Harness Magicka nerf).

Xsorus · September 2015

I play my Nightblade in PvP primarily in IC because I can avoid a vast number of those mobs.....Since they far dangerous then most players.

Joy_Division · September 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

Hi @ZOS_GinaBruno ,

I doubt that my comment on page 16 in a thread will be read, let alone heeded, but here is my take.

The problem is not cloak. It is an annoying ability for sure and every time a NB ever claims it is useless, broken, or that they don't put it on their bars, we all just need to direct them to this thread where they are fanatically defending it. It is quite clear from the NBs themselves that this ability is very strong, a defining feature of their class. Yet it serves a legitimate function that is needed in the game.

Where NBs lose me is their insistence that there are many counters to cloak. While strictly true, this is very misleading because most of these counters are unreliable, inefficient, inconvenient and sometimes self-defeating. Gina, I have PvPed enough to have three characters that are the colonel rank and I never once seen the flare ability reveal a nightblade. I have no idea what the sound effect is if it stealther is actually revealed. Now, we have to consider two possibilities. One, everyone who I have ever seen PvP is a dunce for not figuring out how to successfully use this skill. Two, the skill isn't any good. Hmmm....

NBs, have you ever contemplated the reason we use detect pots is because your class has the only good skill to actually hunt you down if you cloak?. I know you would rather us to spamming AoEs or use Radiant Mage-Light. This might come as a surprise, but some of us do know how to play and have come to the conclusion that detect pots are better and certainly more versatile options for overall performance in Cyrodiil. Trust me, we do *not* want to use our potion cooldown just to find you. We much rather save that resource for a tri-pot because if we run out of stamina against you, we are dead.

The best solution is to give players better abilities to offensively counter cloak. NBs don't want a nerf. Win. Nobody wants detect potions to the default counter. Win. Non-NBs want to be able to hunt down cloaking NBs. Win. Everybody is happy.

This is supposed to be the niche for the Flare skill. It is terrible. It is outrageously expensive, serves zero purpose aside from its narrow function, and I'm not even sure it actually can do its function: the skill say it reveals stealthed enemies, which is not the same as invisible enemies (aside from the damage morph being nearly pointless. A NB cloaks away the damage and is not revealed by the skill). Why why why would my templar ever slot this instead of Blazing Spear?

Now, where is my detect pot?

Eejit1331 · September 2015

Mu NB is geared for spell, last night excluding magicka regen, I could cloak around 20 times. That's almost a full minute of being invisible. Magicka NB will have no problems with the changes. The problem is NB want their cake and eat to. NB want to play a stamina roll while fulfilling the role play of being invisible. Temps can't spam breath of life nor is it even good as a stam user, stamina sorcs sheild is garbage (strength is off max magicka) and DK GDB is so nerfed it's not even worth a slot in IC and reflect is so so in IC, but a stamina NB wants to be able to reset any fight they want with a magicka ability. If stam NB wants to spam cloak so bad, go magicka! CLOAK IS A MAGICKA ABILITY AND SHOULD NOT BE THE CENTRAL DEFENSE OF A STAM BUILD. Tell me, what is the central defense of a stam sorc, stam dk or a stam templar. Nerf to Cloak = balance.

wraith808 · September 2015

I have an idea to float. Make one of the morphs for Cloak stamina based. It would be akin to Camouflage or some sort of justification to make it not be a magical skill. And of course, make Cloak work all the time in all of the situations that it should.

What are the thoughts on that?

twistedmonk · September 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

REALLY horrible idea.

give into the forum whiners who have no skill and can't use the many counters available to them.

ZOS you have failed me for the last time. /forcechoke

jhharvest · September 2015

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Or put mark target in the assult or support tree? Lol.. just a thought.

Actually this sounds good to me. Replace the useless Flare with Mark Target and give Nightblades something else to replace the skill. Since they always say they don't have class shields or heals, maybe they could get Blazing Shield from Templars or GDB from DKs, or something functionally similar. NBs want a heal or a shield to augment their cloak anyway. I mean, with the current patch I don't think much anyone runs Blazing Shield or GDB in PVP anymore but that's beside the point.

Alternatively I wouldn't mind seeing Flare buffed. I'd suggest two morphs: one offensive and the other defensive. Offensive variant has extended range and AoE and the defensive has much, much longer duration on ground. Like 1 minute or something. So you can drop it to guard entrances and choke points. Caltrops can be used defensively like this but it's a stam skill so it doesn't synergise well with magicka builds.

Septimus_Magna · September 2015

It would be nice if there was a morph for Reveling Flare that would make the caster the center for x seconds, similar to Proximity Detonation. Right now no one slots Reveling Flare because its way too slow, cast > target circle > place > throw flare animation > detection area. While the flare hits the ground the sneaky guy is 30m further around the corner.

Radiant Mage light is a less desirable option for 3 reasons:

Most magicka builds use Inner Light for pve dps/healing.
It takes up 2 slots on your bar without having an active use.
The detection range is fairly small.

Sneaky-Snurr · September 2015

CP5 wrote: »

I'm sorry, but if you are unable to see all the other skills that nightblades can use to not only set themselves apart from the other classes, but also do things no other class can, that is not on me. Cloak is one skill, and if you feel that is the only thing the class is good with, if it's the thing the class needs. The nightblade as a class has a lot going for it, and a lot of choice. I myself am trying to cut cloak out of all my bars because I feel like I use to too much, I find myself frequently avoiding death in most situations and its utility is almost unmatched by most everything else in game. I can't do anything more to tell some people that nightblades aren't only cloak, but I guess everything else the class offers isn't enough.

@CP5
If that's the case, then you'd be surprised as to how every single NBs consider Cloak as their core skill because, again, NBs are stealth specialists. We depend a lot on stealth in tandem to trickery. Of course we have a lot of other abilities but do you honestly think a lot of NBs use the less popular skills? Indeed, they don't. There's a reason why NBs don't use the so-called less popular abilities. Why? Because they're extremely useless in any circumstances. The abilities I'm talking about do not provide substantial soft CCs nor heals and the effects are easily breakable. Don't even bother on the damage because it is just extremely weak. As a matter of fact, I'll explain why below.

CP5 wrote: »

Can any nightblades who feel cloak is the only thing they have worth the class please explain how they use it and how that is so?

@CP5
Cloak is useful for a buttload of reasons.
Health, stam and to a certain extent, magicka regens are one of them.
Another reason is that we NBs don't have reliable self-heals. No insta heals or reliable DoTs so we rely a lot on Cloak for regen as our means of sustain. Nerf Cloak and what do we have left? We don't even have shields or reliable damage mitigation buffs (Blur is hardly a mitigation buff with no synergies and you know it's true).
And as I've said before, Cloak has a few useful hard synergies and nerfing Cloak would render them useless.
Also, it is our only effective damage mitigation skills (it is still broken however).
There are more points on this but I'll leave that to other NBs so you'll know how crucial the skill is to us as our means of sustainability.

Eejit1331 wrote: »

This is only a core skill to a L2P NB noob. NB have plenty of good abilities. You just have to think outside the OP Cloak box. Don't worry, you'll adapt as all the other classes have. Cheers!

@Eejit1331
It's funny that you mentioned L2P. @blur has no problems countering Cloaked NBs so the question really begs to prove who's really having the L2P issue? Him or the ones asking for a Cloak nerf because 'OMG it's too powerful bring out the Nerf Hammer!'? You decide.
Why yell for the nerf when someone else can actually counter Cloak easily? He is even generous enough to point out how to counter Cloak.
Should you need to know why your claims that NBs have plenty of good abilities are rather invalid, refer to my responses above. I mean sure we have good ones but they're among the few.

CP5 · September 2015

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

I'm sorry, but if you are unable to see all the other skills that nightblades can use to not only set themselves apart from the other classes, but also do things no other class can, that is not on me. Cloak is one skill, and if you feel that is the only thing the class is good with, if it's the thing the class needs. The nightblade as a class has a lot going for it, and a lot of choice. I myself am trying to cut cloak out of all my bars because I feel like I use to too much, I find myself frequently avoiding death in most situations and its utility is almost unmatched by most everything else in game. I can't do anything more to tell some people that nightblades aren't only cloak, but I guess everything else the class offers isn't enough.

@CP5
If that's the case, then you'd be surprised as to how every single NBs consider Cloak as their core skill because, again, NBs are stealth specialists. We depend a lot on stealth in tandem to trickery. Of course we have a lot of other abilities but do you honestly think a lot of NBs use the less popular skills? Indeed, they don't. There's a reason why NBs don't use the so-called less popular abilities. Why? Because they're extremely useless in any circumstances. The abilities I'm talking about do not provide substantial soft CCs nor heals and the effects are easily breakable. Don't even bother on the damage because it is just extremely weak. As a matter of fact, I'll explain why below.

CP5 wrote: »

Can any nightblades who feel cloak is the only thing they have worth the class please explain how they use it and how that is so?

@CP5
Cloak is useful for a buttload of reasons.
Health, stam and to a certain extent, magicka regens are one of them.
Another reason is that we NBs don't have reliable self-heals. No insta heals or reliable DoTs so we rely a lot on Cloak for regen as our means of sustain. Nerf Cloak and what do we have left? We don't even have shields or reliable damage mitigation buffs (Blur is hardly a mitigation buff with no synergies and you know it's true).
And as I've said before, Cloak has a few useful hard synergies and nerfing Cloak would render them useless.
Also, it is our only effective damage mitigation skills (it is still broken however).
There are more points on this but I'll leave that to other NBs so you'll know how crucial the skill is to us as our means of sustainability.

Eejit1331 wrote: »

This is only a core skill to a L2P NB noob. NB have plenty of good abilities. You just have to think outside the OP Cloak box. Don't worry, you'll adapt as all the other classes have. Cheers!

@Eejit1331
It's funny that you mentioned L2P. @blur has no problems countering Cloaked NBs so the question really begs to prove who's really having the L2P issue? Him or the ones asking for a Cloak nerf because 'OMG it's too powerful bring out the Nerf Hammer!'? You decide.
Why yell for the nerf when someone else can actually counter Cloak easily? He is even generous enough to point out how to counter Cloak.
Should you need to know why your claims that NBs have plenty of good abilities are rather invalid, refer to my responses above. I mean sure we have good ones but they're among the few.

I'll just say this, nightblades are leaning heavily on cloak and in my opinion it is a self created necessity. Didn't dragonknights uproar when wings got nerfed, a nerf earned by the skill being spammed and countering a large number of damage sources in game? Did't sorcs uproar when bolt escape again got nerfed because a few select players were spamming it to the moon and the resulting nerf rendered the skill less practical for common use? Nightblades have a large number of skills, and cloak is one of the few defensive skills to not recieve a resource managing nerf, it is an incredibly versitile skill with many more utilities but if players feel it must be spammed to be effective, just see where dk's and sorc's ended up with their respective changes.

eventide03b14a_ESO · September 2015

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

I understand nightblades aren't used to nerfs toward their class, but look at how well stamina sorcs have done despite all of the nerfs to streak. If you seriously think cloak is the core skill of the class, and the only thing making the class worthwhile, you have found a very nice box.

@CP5
The thing is, Cloak IS indeed a NB's core skill. A lot of passives and skills (ie. Shadow Barrier and Veiled strike and its morphs) revolve around it and it is a staple to all NBs without a doubt (if you think that's not the case then I don't know what is), if Cloak gets nerfed then stam NBs are done for. Add to the fact that NBs have no damage shields or reliable heals, NBs are incapable of surviving without Cloak. Thus, you'll see the re-emergence of StickBlades once more if the nerf comes into play.
That's what separates each and every class apart. Also, NBs didn't need any nerfs because they were weak at launch and Magicka NBs were the only way to go. Cloak hasn't even been fixed fully yet and I'll stress on this once more, what @ZOS did to Cloak in the IC patch is actually a FIX. When Cloak is actually close to being fixed, all the whiners stormed out of their caves and yelled 'Cloak needs nerf! OMG!'.

And also, Cloak does NOT deal damage nor offer CC upon cast at all compared to Sorcs's Streak. It is simply a utility with hard synergies available at disposal which all NBs can utilise. Most of the time, it is used for escaping and we all know very well that most of the time it ends badly for the cloaking NBs attempting to escape.
The stereotype goes like this and is indeed true: Templars (healers), NBs (stealth-specialist), DKs (tankers) and Sorcs (spellcasters).

This is only a core skill to a L2P NB noob. NB have plenty of good abilities. You just have to think outside the OP Cloak box. Don't worry, you'll adapt as all the other classes have. Cheers!

It's not even OP though. Seriously. It's literally only a real problem for unprepared players. I saw my friend last night standing in the middle of a DC group in Cyrodiil. If even one of had bothered to slot Radiant Magelight he wouldn't have been able to do that. It's the easiest skill in the game to counter, doesn't do any damage, and just costs magicka. Yet L2P noobs come on here crying about wanting it nerfed. This community sickens me sometimes.

Xeven · September 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

It would be nice if there was a morph for Reveling Flare that would make the caster the center for x seconds, similar to Proximity Detonation. Right now no one slots Reveling Flare because its way too slow, cast > target circle > place > throw flare animation > detection area. While the flare hits the ground the sneaky guy is 30m further around the corner.

Radiant Mage light is a less desirable option for 3 reasons:
Most magicka builds use Inner Light for pve dps/healing.

It takes up 2 slots on your bar without having an active use.

The detection range is fairly small.

4) You have 12% less magicka and 10% less crit chance with magelight compared to inner light.

It's an absurd DPS loss.

eventide03b14a_ESO · September 2015

CP5 wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

As mainly a PvE player who has now been trying to PvP since IC came out.. I find those constant stealthing Nightblade's super annoying.

Although, I'm not sure about a nerf, but buffing detect potions would certainly help. I know they were nerfed at the end of PTS, but maybe bring them to the middle of what they were, and what they are now?

I rather have a nerf related to Magicka regeneration while Cloaked than buffing a potion which is so ridiculous that quaffing one nullifies your Cloak to everybody in the vicinity.

Please nerf Cloak hard and make it so Detection Potions only nullify Cloak for the one who quaffed it.

Next! Looking at you, Breath of Life bots.

Ack. I always forget about that. I do also agree detect pots should ONLY work for the person who drank it. It working on anyone else is just dumb I think. @Lava_Croft

Fight 24 people, one drinks a potion and you cannot use Cloak against any of them for the coming 15 seconds. I really hope a nerf to Cloak is combined with a nerf to Detection Potions.

I wouldn't even call that a nerf. If I drank something, how would others be able to see what I see? They should have had it that way to begin with, and likely added some sort of visual like the detect eye that floats above npc's heads when they can spot you when you are wearing a disguise. Do both of those and detect pots are no longer a hard shutdown out of nowhere.

'Realism logic' has absolutely no place in a game where I can turn invisible at will.

Not realism, I mean I guess.. But if I drink a health potion everyone around me isn't healed. Are all of our characters wired together in on hive mind then?

Not realism just logic. You can have a fantasy world and as long as it's logical within it's own rules and context you can suspend your disbelief. Me, eating or drinking or taking some kind of drug should have no effect on other peoples perceptions.

eventide03b14a_ESO · September 2015

CP5 wrote: »

Nightblades seem to be gladly glazing over the fact that yes, at release they were broken but ever since they have received many powerful buffs and a lot of bug fixes. To those saying that only recently (will say past 4ish months) have they became strong, or that they lack survivability outside of cloak spam, would a list of all the changes the class has received since launch or a rundown of all the classes skills and passives be enough to prove otherwise? You build to be a glass cannon expect to be one, and if you willingly disregard skills to help...

Just slot Radiant Magelight or drink potions. Beyond that L2P maybe?

eventide03b14a_ESO · September 2015

Xeven wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

It would be nice if there was a morph for Reveling Flare that would make the caster the center for x seconds, similar to Proximity Detonation. Right now no one slots Reveling Flare because its way too slow, cast > target circle > place > throw flare animation > detection area. While the flare hits the ground the sneaky guy is 30m further around the corner.

Radiant Mage light is a less desirable option for 3 reasons:
Most magicka builds use Inner Light for pve dps/healing.

It takes up 2 slots on your bar without having an active use.

The detection range is fairly small.

4) You have 12% less magicka and 10% less crit chance with magelight compared to inner light.

It's an absurd DPS loss.

No you don't. You're showing your ignorance regarding this skill. Radiant Magelight doesn't actually reduce your magicka in a practical sense. You lose access to 5% of your magicka but it still counts towards your stats. So essentially you are "losing out" on 5% magicka which unless you have a really crappy build shouldn't make or break you. What you gain instead is far more of a benefit than what you lose.

You gain immunity from stealth stuns.
You and your allies take 50% less damage from stealth attacks.
You can see invisible enemies.

That's worth 5% magicka to me.

CP5 · September 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

As mainly a PvE player who has now been trying to PvP since IC came out.. I find those constant stealthing Nightblade's super annoying.

Although, I'm not sure about a nerf, but buffing detect potions would certainly help. I know they were nerfed at the end of PTS, but maybe bring them to the middle of what they were, and what they are now?

I rather have a nerf related to Magicka regeneration while Cloaked than buffing a potion which is so ridiculous that quaffing one nullifies your Cloak to everybody in the vicinity.

Please nerf Cloak hard and make it so Detection Potions only nullify Cloak for the one who quaffed it.

Next! Looking at you, Breath of Life bots.

Ack. I always forget about that. I do also agree detect pots should ONLY work for the person who drank it. It working on anyone else is just dumb I think. @Lava_Croft

Fight 24 people, one drinks a potion and you cannot use Cloak against any of them for the coming 15 seconds. I really hope a nerf to Cloak is combined with a nerf to Detection Potions.

I wouldn't even call that a nerf. If I drank something, how would others be able to see what I see? They should have had it that way to begin with, and likely added some sort of visual like the detect eye that floats above npc's heads when they can spot you when you are wearing a disguise. Do both of those and detect pots are no longer a hard shutdown out of nowhere.

'Realism logic' has absolutely no place in a game where I can turn invisible at will.

Not realism, I mean I guess.. But if I drink a health potion everyone around me isn't healed. Are all of our characters wired together in on hive mind then?

Not realism just logic. You can have a fantasy world and as long as it's logical within it's own rules and context you can suspend your disbelief. Me, eating or drinking or taking some kind of drug should have no effect on other peoples perceptions.

Unless that is one very strong 'potion.' I would also like to add (replying to your next post) that despite how much i'm telling nightblades to look at their own class I don't feel cloak needs a nerf. What it needs are reliable counters that are more useful. Spamming aoe's is just as good of a counter as removing single target range skills when fighting a dk, to me it screams poor design and a lack of play and counter play.

Radiant magelight (a skill my dk decoy tank uses all the time) has a pitiful aoe, flare is slow and only useful at countering cloak and is otherwise a wasted slot, and potions have a long cooldown (not to mention the changes I would like to see to detect pots in general). If cloak wasn't so one dimensional where either A.) a counter is spammed and the skill is easily countered or B.) it is a free get out of jail card that can be used very freely. And with how people are reacting, and with how cloak is one of the few non-nerfed class defense skills, it will get nerfed, its up to players to at least try to give ZOS ideas which way to go with it.

Xeven · September 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

It would be nice if there was a morph for Reveling Flare that would make the caster the center for x seconds, similar to Proximity Detonation. Right now no one slots Reveling Flare because its way too slow, cast > target circle > place > throw flare animation > detection area. While the flare hits the ground the sneaky guy is 30m further around the corner.

Radiant Mage light is a less desirable option for 3 reasons:
Most magicka builds use Inner Light for pve dps/healing.

It takes up 2 slots on your bar without having an active use.

The detection range is fairly small.

4) You have 12% less magicka and 10% less crit chance with magelight compared to inner light.

It's an absurd DPS loss.

No you don't. You're showing your ignorance regarding this skill. Radiant Magelight doesn't actually reduce your magicka in a practical sense. You lose access to 5% of your magicka but it still counts towards your stats. So essentially you are "losing out" on 5% magicka which unless you have a really crappy build shouldn't make or break you. What you gain instead is far more of a benefit than what you lose.
You gain immunity from stealth stuns.

You and your allies take 50% less damage from stealth attacks.

You can see invisible enemies.

That's worth 5% magicka to me.

I know that.

What you're not including is the +7% magicka you get from Inner Light and the mages guild passives which is significant, not to mention 10% crit.

I personally don't care too much about Cloak. I kill NB all day erryday, but for a NB to suggest magelight as a viable counter is laughable. The radius is garbage, giving up two slots just to MAYBE see a NB for a second is garbage, and cloak spamming NBs are garbage.

Derra · September 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

It would be nice if there was a morph for Reveling Flare that would make the caster the center for x seconds, similar to Proximity Detonation. Right now no one slots Reveling Flare because its way too slow, cast > target circle > place > throw flare animation > detection area. While the flare hits the ground the sneaky guy is 30m further around the corner.

Radiant Mage light is a less desirable option for 3 reasons:
Most magicka builds use Inner Light for pve dps/healing.

It takes up 2 slots on your bar without having an active use.

The detection range is fairly small.

4) You have 12% less magicka and 10% less crit chance with magelight compared to inner light.

It's an absurd DPS loss.

No you don't. You're showing your ignorance regarding this skill. Radiant Magelight doesn't actually reduce your magicka in a practical sense. You lose access to 5% of your magicka but it still counts towards your stats. So essentially you are "losing out" on 5% magicka which unless you have a really crappy build shouldn't make or break you. What you gain instead is far more of a benefit than what you lose.
You gain immunity from stealth stuns.

You and your allies take 50% less damage from stealth attacks.

You can see invisible enemies.

That's worth 5% magicka to me.

The problem is the stun immunity does not work against cloaked nightblade attacks only basic sneak attacks. Talk all you want about the skill being good - there is a reason i don´t know even 1 competent player using it.

eventide03b14a_ESO · September 2015

Xeven wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

It would be nice if there was a morph for Reveling Flare that would make the caster the center for x seconds, similar to Proximity Detonation. Right now no one slots Reveling Flare because its way too slow, cast > target circle > place > throw flare animation > detection area. While the flare hits the ground the sneaky guy is 30m further around the corner.

Radiant Mage light is a less desirable option for 3 reasons:
Most magicka builds use Inner Light for pve dps/healing.

It takes up 2 slots on your bar without having an active use.

The detection range is fairly small.

4) You have 12% less magicka and 10% less crit chance with magelight compared to inner light.

It's an absurd DPS loss.

No you don't. You're showing your ignorance regarding this skill. Radiant Magelight doesn't actually reduce your magicka in a practical sense. You lose access to 5% of your magicka but it still counts towards your stats. So essentially you are "losing out" on 5% magicka which unless you have a really crappy build shouldn't make or break you. What you gain instead is far more of a benefit than what you lose.
You gain immunity from stealth stuns.

You and your allies take 50% less damage from stealth attacks.

You can see invisible enemies.

That's worth 5% magicka to me.

I know that.

What you're not including is the +7% magicka you get from Inner Light and the mages guild passives which is significant, not to mention 10% crit.

I personally don't care too much about Cloak. I kill NB all day erryday, but for a NB to suggest magelight as a viable counter is laughable. The radius is garbage, giving up two slots just to MAYBE see a NB for a second is garbage, and cloak spamming NBs are garbage.

No I'm not. Read again. I am including it. It's only 5% you get the other 2% from slotting it since it's a Mage's Guild ability, and guess what... So is Radiant Magelight! You're losing very little, unless like I said, you're build is so terrible you can't afford to lose 5% magicka.

Eejit1331 · September 2015

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

I'm sorry, but if you are unable to see all the other skills that nightblades can use to not only set themselves apart from the other classes, but also do things no other class can, that is not on me. Cloak is one skill, and if you feel that is the only thing the class is good with, if it's the thing the class needs. The nightblade as a class has a lot going for it, and a lot of choice. I myself am trying to cut cloak out of all my bars because I feel like I use to too much, I find myself frequently avoiding death in most situations and its utility is almost unmatched by most everything else in game. I can't do anything more to tell some people that nightblades aren't only cloak, but I guess everything else the class offers isn't enough.

@CP5
If that's the case, then you'd be surprised as to how every single NBs consider Cloak as their core skill because, again, NBs are stealth specialists. We depend a lot on stealth in tandem to trickery. Of course we have a lot of other abilities but do you honestly think a lot of NBs use the less popular skills? Indeed, they don't. There's a reason why NBs don't use the so-called less popular abilities. Why? Because they're extremely useless in any circumstances. The abilities I'm talking about do not provide substantial soft CCs nor heals and the effects are easily breakable. Don't even bother on the damage because it is just extremely weak. As a matter of fact, I'll explain why below.

CP5 wrote: »

Can any nightblades who feel cloak is the only thing they have worth the class please explain how they use it and how that is so?

@CP5
Cloak is useful for a buttload of reasons.
Health, stam and to a certain extent, magicka regens are one of them.
Another reason is that we NBs don't have reliable self-heals. No insta heals or reliable DoTs so we rely a lot on Cloak for regen as our means of sustain. Nerf Cloak and what do we have left? We don't even have shields or reliable damage mitigation buffs (Blur is hardly a mitigation buff with no synergies and you know it's true).
And as I've said before, Cloak has a few useful hard synergies and nerfing Cloak would render them useless.
Also, it is our only effective damage mitigation skills (it is still broken however).
There are more points on this but I'll leave that to other NBs so you'll know how crucial the skill is to us as our means of sustainability.

Eejit1331 wrote: »

This is only a core skill to a L2P NB noob. NB have plenty of good abilities. You just have to think outside the OP Cloak box. Don't worry, you'll adapt as all the other classes have. Cheers!

@Eejit1331
It's funny that you mentioned L2P. @blur has no problems countering Cloaked NBs so the question really begs to prove who's really having the L2P issue? Him or the ones asking for a Cloak nerf because 'OMG it's too powerful bring out the Nerf Hammer!'? You decide.
Why yell for the nerf when someone else can actually counter Cloak easily? He is even generous enough to point out how to counter Cloak.
Should you need to know why your claims that NBs have plenty of good abilities are rather invalid, refer to my responses above. I mean sure we have good ones but they're among the few.

And it funny that YOU think NB are doomed if regen is removed during cloak. Give me a break. No one is buying the garbage being sold here. Like I said, as a magicka user, with spell gear on, I can still cloak/go invisible for around a full minte. This is nothing in comparison to the nerf to reflect or bol and they still survived. Cloak is being abused and time for the hammer.

Eejit1331 · September 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Nightblades seem to be gladly glazing over the fact that yes, at release they were broken but ever since they have received many powerful buffs and a lot of bug fixes. To those saying that only recently (will say past 4ish months) have they became strong, or that they lack survivability outside of cloak spam, would a list of all the changes the class has received since launch or a rundown of all the classes skills and passives be enough to prove otherwise? You build to be a glass cannon expect to be one, and if you willingly disregard skills to help...

Just slot Radiant Magelight or drink potions. Beyond that L2P maybe?

Learn to think outside the box because the hammer is comming

beyond that, L2P maybe?

eventide03b14a_ESO · September 2015

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

I'm sorry, but if you are unable to see all the other skills that nightblades can use to not only set themselves apart from the other classes, but also do things no other class can, that is not on me. Cloak is one skill, and if you feel that is the only thing the class is good with, if it's the thing the class needs. The nightblade as a class has a lot going for it, and a lot of choice. I myself am trying to cut cloak out of all my bars because I feel like I use to too much, I find myself frequently avoiding death in most situations and its utility is almost unmatched by most everything else in game. I can't do anything more to tell some people that nightblades aren't only cloak, but I guess everything else the class offers isn't enough.

@CP5
If that's the case, then you'd be surprised as to how every single NBs consider Cloak as their core skill because, again, NBs are stealth specialists. We depend a lot on stealth in tandem to trickery. Of course we have a lot of other abilities but do you honestly think a lot of NBs use the less popular skills? Indeed, they don't. There's a reason why NBs don't use the so-called less popular abilities. Why? Because they're extremely useless in any circumstances. The abilities I'm talking about do not provide substantial soft CCs nor heals and the effects are easily breakable. Don't even bother on the damage because it is just extremely weak. As a matter of fact, I'll explain why below.

CP5 wrote: »

Can any nightblades who feel cloak is the only thing they have worth the class please explain how they use it and how that is so?

@CP5
Cloak is useful for a buttload of reasons.
Health, stam and to a certain extent, magicka regens are one of them.
Another reason is that we NBs don't have reliable self-heals. No insta heals or reliable DoTs so we rely a lot on Cloak for regen as our means of sustain. Nerf Cloak and what do we have left? We don't even have shields or reliable damage mitigation buffs (Blur is hardly a mitigation buff with no synergies and you know it's true).
And as I've said before, Cloak has a few useful hard synergies and nerfing Cloak would render them useless.
Also, it is our only effective damage mitigation skills (it is still broken however).
There are more points on this but I'll leave that to other NBs so you'll know how crucial the skill is to us as our means of sustainability.

Eejit1331 wrote: »

This is only a core skill to a L2P NB noob. NB have plenty of good abilities. You just have to think outside the OP Cloak box. Don't worry, you'll adapt as all the other classes have. Cheers!

@Eejit1331
It's funny that you mentioned L2P. @blur has no problems countering Cloaked NBs so the question really begs to prove who's really having the L2P issue? Him or the ones asking for a Cloak nerf because 'OMG it's too powerful bring out the Nerf Hammer!'? You decide.
Why yell for the nerf when someone else can actually counter Cloak easily? He is even generous enough to point out how to counter Cloak.
Should you need to know why your claims that NBs have plenty of good abilities are rather invalid, refer to my responses above. I mean sure we have good ones but they're among the few.

And it funny that YOU think NB are doomed if regen is removed during cloak. Give me a break. No one is buying the garbage being sold here. Like I said, as a magicka user, with spell gear on, I can still cloak/go invisible for around a full minte. This is nothing in comparison to the nerf to reflect or bol and they still survived. Cloak is being abused and time for the hammer.

Abused because you're a terrible player that can't manage to counter a rather harmless utility? ROTFLMFAO

eventide03b14a_ESO · September 2015

Eejit1331 wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Nightblades seem to be gladly glazing over the fact that yes, at release they were broken but ever since they have received many powerful buffs and a lot of bug fixes. To those saying that only recently (will say past 4ish months) have they became strong, or that they lack survivability outside of cloak spam, would a list of all the changes the class has received since launch or a rundown of all the classes skills and passives be enough to prove otherwise? You build to be a glass cannon expect to be one, and if you willingly disregard skills to help...

Just slot Radiant Magelight or drink potions. Beyond that L2P maybe?

Learn to think outside the box because the hammer is comming beyond that, L2P maybe?

I don't need to L2P, I know how to counter different play styles instead of crying on the forums about what a horrible player I am.

killingspreeb16_ESO · September 2015

Eejit1331 wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Nightblades seem to be gladly glazing over the fact that yes, at release they were broken but ever since they have received many powerful buffs and a lot of bug fixes. To those saying that only recently (will say past 4ish months) have they became strong, or that they lack survivability outside of cloak spam, would a list of all the changes the class has received since launch or a rundown of all the classes skills and passives be enough to prove otherwise? You build to be a glass cannon expect to be one, and if you willingly disregard skills to help...

Just slot Radiant Magelight or drink potions. Beyond that L2P maybe?

Learn to think outside the box because the hammer is comming beyond that, L2P maybe?

after the nerf you will still here crying about cloak anyways,some player know how to counter my cloak pretty well other well are here to cry on the forum.

Ezareth · September 2015

Master_Kas wrote: »

This is not total BS. A nb without cloak is ***, he can try rolling around but without cloak to reset the timer he is dead in most cases.

I just Forward Momentum, Double-take and sprint my way out of danger. If someone uses a gap closer on me I fear while sprinting and I'm gone. Sorcs that try to keep up run OOM and I'll remain full reso. Dodge roll is not an escape mechanic it is a mitigation mechanic much as block is. You can move and block too but you're not going to escape anyone doing this.

blur wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for all your feedback. We are looking at several options to limit the number of times Shadow Cloak can be cast in a row. However, unlike Bolt Escape, there are multiple ways of countering Shadow Cloak so we want to be very careful with any change we ultimately make. One of the possibilities we're exploring is reducing your Magicka regeneration while Shadow Cloak is active.

Any change we make will be in a future update, though we don't have a solid time frame at this time.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
So in other words you are planning on screwing over stamina nightblades.
When you nerfed Bolt Escape you basically ruined the ability for Stamina users. You will now follow your footsteps of hamfisted nerfs with the Nightblade.

Just because a group of people whine about something does not mean they are correct. A lot of the people in here don't even PvP regularly let alone know up from down. As a Stamina Sorc I have 0 trouble with Nightblades and have yet been killed by one since IC launched.

There are several ways to counter Cloak and now you will reward lazy inept stubborn people who refuse to slot a counter and want one for free with no penalty to their build. Just so you know, when they are done whining about Cloak they will move on to something else. They are like pestilence, like vermin, basically a swarm of locusts with insatiable whining.

This really doesn't hurt stamina NBs using cloak since their regen is already low. It hurt Stamina Sorcs far worse when bolt escape was nerfed to stop magicka sorcs who could bolt 30+ times when a stamina sorc could only ever bolt 3 times.

Xeven · September 2015

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

It would be nice if there was a morph for Reveling Flare that would make the caster the center for x seconds, similar to Proximity Detonation. Right now no one slots Reveling Flare because its way too slow, cast > target circle > place > throw flare animation > detection area. While the flare hits the ground the sneaky guy is 30m further around the corner.

Radiant Mage light is a less desirable option for 3 reasons:
Most magicka builds use Inner Light for pve dps/healing.

It takes up 2 slots on your bar without having an active use.

The detection range is fairly small.

4) You have 12% less magicka and 10% less crit chance with magelight compared to inner light.

It's an absurd DPS loss.

No you don't. You're showing your ignorance regarding this skill. Radiant Magelight doesn't actually reduce your magicka in a practical sense. You lose access to 5% of your magicka but it still counts towards your stats. So essentially you are "losing out" on 5% magicka which unless you have a really crappy build shouldn't make or break you. What you gain instead is far more of a benefit than what you lose.
You gain immunity from stealth stuns.

You and your allies take 50% less damage from stealth attacks.

You can see invisible enemies.

That's worth 5% magicka to me.

I know that.

What you're not including is the +7% magicka you get from Inner Light and the mages guild passives which is significant, not to mention 10% crit.

I personally don't care too much about Cloak. I kill NB all day erryday, but for a NB to suggest magelight as a viable counter is laughable. The radius is garbage, giving up two slots just to MAYBE see a NB for a second is garbage, and cloak spamming NBs are garbage.

No I'm not. Read again. I am including it. It's only 5% you get the other 2% from slotting it since it's a Mage's Guild ability, and guess what... So is Radiant Magelight! You're losing very little, unless like I said, you're build is so terrible you can't afford to lose 5% magicka.

A ) With magelight you are still down 7% magicka for the damage calculation. I know this is hard for you to understand so I'll ELI5 for you.

You have 100 max magicka.
You slot Inner light. Your max magicka becomes 107.
You slot magelight. Your max magicka is still 100.
Got that? Good.

B ) With magelight your magicka bar will only actually hold 97% of your max magicka.
C ) The radius on magelight is garbage. IT DOESNT WORK.
D ) I don't need Magelight.

Nobody uses magelight. There is a reason for that. You are delusional.

There are far, FAR better options. That does not, however, justify Cloak as a spammable game mechanic.

killingspreeb16_ESO · September 2015

CP5 wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

I'm sorry, but if you are unable to see all the other skills that nightblades can use to not only set themselves apart from the other classes, but also do things no other class can, that is not on me. Cloak is one skill, and if you feel that is the only thing the class is good with, if it's the thing the class needs. The nightblade as a class has a lot going for it, and a lot of choice. I myself am trying to cut cloak out of all my bars because I feel like I use to too much, I find myself frequently avoiding death in most situations and its utility is almost unmatched by most everything else in game. I can't do anything more to tell some people that nightblades aren't only cloak, but I guess everything else the class offers isn't enough.

@CP5
If that's the case, then you'd be surprised as to how every single NBs consider Cloak as their core skill because, again, NBs are stealth specialists. We depend a lot on stealth in tandem to trickery. Of course we have a lot of other abilities but do you honestly think a lot of NBs use the less popular skills? Indeed, they don't. There's a reason why NBs don't use the so-called less popular abilities. Why? Because they're extremely useless in any circumstances. The abilities I'm talking about do not provide substantial soft CCs nor heals and the effects are easily breakable. Don't even bother on the damage because it is just extremely weak. As a matter of fact, I'll explain why below.

CP5 wrote: »

Can any nightblades who feel cloak is the only thing they have worth the class please explain how they use it and how that is so?

@CP5
Cloak is useful for a buttload of reasons.
Health, stam and to a certain extent, magicka regens are one of them.
Another reason is that we NBs don't have reliable self-heals. No insta heals or reliable DoTs so we rely a lot on Cloak for regen as our means of sustain. Nerf Cloak and what do we have left? We don't even have shields or reliable damage mitigation buffs (Blur is hardly a mitigation buff with no synergies and you know it's true).
And as I've said before, Cloak has a few useful hard synergies and nerfing Cloak would render them useless.
Also, it is our only effective damage mitigation skills (it is still broken however).
There are more points on this but I'll leave that to other NBs so you'll know how crucial the skill is to us as our means of sustainability.

Eejit1331 wrote: »

This is only a core skill to a L2P NB noob. NB have plenty of good abilities. You just have to think outside the OP Cloak box. Don't worry, you'll adapt as all the other classes have. Cheers!

@Eejit1331
It's funny that you mentioned L2P. @blur has no problems countering Cloaked NBs so the question really begs to prove who's really having the L2P issue? Him or the ones asking for a Cloak nerf because 'OMG it's too powerful bring out the Nerf Hammer!'? You decide.
Why yell for the nerf when someone else can actually counter Cloak easily? He is even generous enough to point out how to counter Cloak.
Should you need to know why your claims that NBs have plenty of good abilities are rather invalid, refer to my responses above. I mean sure we have good ones but they're among the few.

I'll just say this, nightblades are leaning heavily on cloak and in my opinion it is a self created necessity. Didn't dragonknights uproar when wings got nerfed, a nerf earned by the skill being spammed and countering a large number of damage sources in game? Did't sorcs uproar when bolt escape again got nerfed because a few select players were spamming it to the moon and the resulting nerf rendered the skill less practical for common use? Nightblades have a large number of skills, and cloak is one of the few defensive skills to not recieve a resource managing nerf, it is an incredibly versitile skill with many more utilities but if players feel it must be spammed to be effective, just see where dk's and sorc's ended up with their respective changes.

Well wings didn't need a nerf in my opinion,Bolt still spammable apparently,a penality to cloak is not the good solution will hurt stamina NB but magika can still spam it anyways,maybe before ask for nerf if im not mistaken there are some ability bugged and fail to dmg cloak so fix those ability,do slight buff to magelight/flare and maybe make speed buff don't work while youre cloaked